Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

Aenesthesia.1697:

SlyDevil.3952:

Where exactly is this exploit being used that you consider it the only thing holding necros back from being generally accepted as meta? Since you know, you’d have to compare the non-icebow dps of every other class to necros before deciding whether or not it was the best choice for the available dps slots.

Actually, the only thing that has put us in this stupid discriminating situation, is not the lack of offensive buffs, or the not so good dps, nor the linecasting icebow.

It’s the lack of a damage recount tool.

In all my years in wow i never saw such discrimination against a class. Why? because you had Recount to separate the real damage dealers vs the rest.

That kind of tool would be death for any in class in this game that wasn’t #1 because lacking trinity. The actual problem is WoW-type players who think that’s how performance is measured.

I think a recount (dps meter) would be a bad addition to GW2. But solely for the fact that 95% of the people have no clue how to interpret them in a non-trinity setting. They see the phalanx warrior doing 70% of the DPS of the others and don’t see past the fact that he’s using a sub optimal dps spec to buff the whole party for more overall damage.

But the problem in GW2 is, that people are still drawing the same conclusions. But instead of reading (and often misinterpreting) damage meters; people now base their opinions on “gutfeeling”, hearsay about “meta” and sites which proclaim which composition is optimal for their run.
Badly played elementalists are guaranteed spots even though they might be horrible; and well played necromancers are dismissed before even seeing combat.

I personally never found damage meters to be a bad thing for WoW. With a trinity they generally give a clear overview of who’s performing well and who isn’t (mostly for dps, it’s a bit different for healers).
Gearscore / ilvl on the other hand, now THAT was the dumbest piece of BLEEP factor people ever judged on.

Nyth.3492:

I think a recount (dps meter) would be a bad addition to GW2. But solely for the fact that 95% of the people have no clue how to interpret them. They see the phalanx warrior doing 70% of the DPS of the others and don’t see past the fact that he’s using a sub optimal dps spec to buff the whole party for more overall damage.

But the problem in GW2 is, that people are still drawing the same conclusions. But instead of reading (and often misinterpreting) damage meters; people now base their opinions on “gutfeeling”, hearsay about “meta” and sites which proclaim which composition is optimal for their run.
Badly played elementalists are guaranteed spots even though they might be horrible; and well played necromancers are dismissed before even seeing combat.

I think this is closer to the truth then we would like to admit.

Nyth.3492:

I personally never found damage meters to be a bad thing for WoW. With a trinity they generally give a clear overview of who’s performing well and who isn’t (mostly for dps, it’s a bit different for healers).
Gearscore / ilvl on the other hand, now THAT was the dumbest piece of BLEEP factor people ever judged on.

But isn’t in a trinity game dps a group effort (this is my first mmo)? I mean if the healers and tanks do a bad job will the overall dps decrease? I think it would be like tequatl : dps will drop if you have bad turreteers.

Have you seen his channels’ title video?
To save your time, he’s speaking very openly & directly about what youtube clips have to contain to create a maximum of clicks, displaying a complete lack of respect towards his audience by picturing them as mindless click-machines, always after the next sensation.
So now he’s creating his own.

He’s not creating all this fuzz about his “awesome part II” because he thinks it changes something about how necro is perceived, he just tries to bait people into giving him attention & ultimately giving him more clicks so he can get into youtube-partnership one day.

This guy is intentionally trolling for economic reasons.
My suggestion: Don’t even click his “awesome part II” until he has posted the core of his point on the forums. And if you think it’s bullkitten, refuse to click as well.
At least that’s what I’ll do.
Have a nice day.

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

I think a recount (dps meter) would be a bad addition to GW2. But solely for the fact that 95% of the people have no clue how to interpret them. They see the phalanx warrior doing 70% of the DPS of the others and don’t see past the fact that he’s using a sub optimal dps spec to buff the whole party for more overall damage.

But the problem in GW2 is, that people are still drawing the same conclusions. But instead of reading (and often misinterpreting) damage meters; people now base their opinions on “gutfeeling”, hearsay about “meta” and sites which proclaim which composition is optimal for their run.
Badly played elementalists are guaranteed spots even though they might be horrible; and well played necromancers are dismissed before even seeing combat.

I think this is closer to the truth then we would like to admit.

Getting closer my friends… but the truth is even more cruel… part II is coming

Arantheal.7396:

Have you seen his channels’ title video?
To save your time, he’s speaking very openly & directly about what youtube clips have to contain to create a maximum of clicks, displaying a complete lack of respect towards his audience by picturing them as mindless click-machines, always after the next sensation.
So now he’s creating his own.

He’s not creating all this fuzz about his “awesome part II” because he thinks it changes something about how necro is perceived, he just tries to bait people into giving him attention & ultimately giving him more clicks so he can get into youtube-partnership one day.

This guy is intentionally trolling for economic reasons.
My suggestion: Don’t even click his “awesome part II” until he has posted the core of his point on the forums. And if you think it’s bullkitten, refuse to click as well.
At least that’s what I’ll do.
Have a nice day.

What an amazing theory… if only i wouldn’t already be a YouTube partner for 3 years now, and have access to ratings which clearly show that doing Guild Wars 2 content is one of the least profitable things you can do on YouTube right now.

10.000 views on YouTube = ~10$, working 3 weeks on a video for 10$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

You… are right about one thing though… i am drawing attention to myself… for part II…

Normally i wouldn’t take the time to answer no names, delusional people like you… because frankly you are irrelevant… but… answering you, further fuels the argument until eventually i will be proven right, about everything and you will eat your own words…

Have a nice day as well

PS: It’s irrelevant if you will click my part II or not, you will find out about it anyway from other who will.

EDIT: It’s actually 10$ because of the current RPM due to autumn being a “dead season” for advertising, forgot about that.

Arantheal.7396:

Have you seen his channels’ title video?
To save your time, he’s speaking very openly & directly about what youtube clips have to contain to create a maximum of clicks, displaying a complete lack of respect towards his audience by picturing them as mindless click-machines, always after the next sensation.
So now he’s creating his own.

He’s not creating all this fuzz about his “awesome part II” because he thinks it changes something about how necro is perceived, he just tries to bait people into giving him attention & ultimately giving him more clicks so he can get into youtube-partnership one day.

This guy is intentionally trolling for economic reasons.
My suggestion: Don’t even click his “awesome part II” until he has posted the core of his point on the forums. And if you think it’s bullkitten, refuse to click as well.
At least that’s what I’ll do.
Have a nice day.

Right. Which is why he keeps spamming low quality/low effort videos every day with titles in all caps with multiple exclamation marks and female breasts in every thumbnail, while ignoring all feedback and never responding to comments. NOT.

Good try at trolling, bro, sadly the execution is still lacking.

His videos take a lot of effort, contain perfectly provable math, he responds to comments and feedback in the first days after posting a vid (sometimes even a lot later) and the thumbnails are simple and concentrated on topic.

The only thing that might be “questionable” is the way he seems to ridicule people, but then again, if i read the stupid kitten rageposts his video got when a warrior posted it in the warrior forum, with “but I’m sure this warrior sucked I can get xk dps easily” arguements with 0 backup… Well then i can understand why he is fed up with people like this.

Shiki.7148:

Arantheal.7396:

Have you seen his channels’ title video?
To save your time, he’s speaking very openly & directly about what youtube clips have to contain to create a maximum of clicks, displaying a complete lack of respect towards his audience by picturing them as mindless click-machines, always after the next sensation.
So now he’s creating his own.

He’s not creating all this fuzz about his “awesome part II” because he thinks it changes something about how necro is perceived, he just tries to bait people into giving him attention & ultimately giving him more clicks so he can get into youtube-partnership one day.

This guy is intentionally trolling for economic reasons.
My suggestion: Don’t even click his “awesome part II” until he has posted the core of his point on the forums. And if you think it’s bullkitten, refuse to click as well.
At least that’s what I’ll do.
Have a nice day.

Yeah, right…which is why he puts a lot of kittening work in a single video, instead of spamming low quality/low effort videos every day with titles in all caps with multiple exclamation marks and female breasts in every thumbnail, while ignoring all feedback and never responding to comments. Good try at trolling, bro.

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 10$, working 3 weeks on a video for 10$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

EDIT: It’s actually 10$ because of the current RPM due to autumn being a “dead season” for advertising, forgot about that.

Nemesis.8593:

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 30$, working 3 weeks on a video for 30$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 30$, working 3 weeks on a video for 30$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

Pay me and i will show you, otherwise i am afraid i am just too busy with my own agenda, to be able to invest time and effort in satisfying everyone’s curiosity…
This is free content, take it or leave it… but you are not entitled to anything except an opinion…

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run… manually add the damage done, divide by the time… and post it here for all to see…

Come on, do your part and help the community get to the bottom of this… what do you say ?

I don’t do much pve so I don’t know what linecasting is. But from watching the video, I’m guessing it involves restricting your field of view using obstacles when using skills that throw “random” missiles within an area, like Meteor Shower or Ice Bow 4, or guardian’s scepter 2. That way, all the missiles fall in the narrow area that you can see between the obstacles instead of all over the skill’s aoe, and you get more hits on your target.

Did I get it right?

And, if yes, I’m guessing linecasting doesn’t do anything when you’re using skills that hit the entire of their aoe, like Wells, correct?

line casting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJncPGDJ9Ho

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 30$, working 3 weeks on a video for 30$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

Pay me and i will show you, otherwise i am afraid i am just too busy with my own agenda, to be able to invest time and effort in satisfying everyone’s curiosity…
This is free content, take it or leave it… but you are not entitled to anything except an opinion…

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run… manually add the damage done, divide by the time… and post it here for all to see…

Come on, do your part and help the community get to the bottom of this… what do you say ?

I’m sorry bro, but this is why I cannot take you seriously. The burden of proof is on your end. And if you aren’t even willing to show us the complete thesis, then its obvious you have no proof to show.

Linecasting is done by dodging back. No fancy fov tricks. It is a waste of time. It moves all random projectiles to the 1 very narrow line so your aim must be perfect against bosses with small hitboxes and you will have to run back to the boss since you need to be far away from it. It is not part of any “meta”. Just a small trick that is mostly useless.

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

:)

10.000 views on YouTube = 30$, working 3 weeks on a video for 30$ is mental… unless of course you are not doing it for the money…

If i was here for the money… i would even be here… literally…
Minecraft earns you 100x more easy.

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

Pay me and i will show you, otherwise i am afraid i am just too busy with my own agenda, to be able to invest time and effort in satisfying everyone’s curiosity…
This is free content, take it or leave it… but you are not entitled to anything except an opinion…

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run… manually add the damage done, divide by the time… and post it here for all to see…

Come on, do your part and help the community get to the bottom of this… what do you say ?

I’m sorry bro, but this is why I cannot take you seriously. The burden of proof is on your end. And if you aren’t even willing to show us the complete thesis, then its obvious you have no proof to show.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Linecasting is done by dodging back. No fancy fov tricks. It is a waste of time. It moves all random projectiles to the 1 very narrow line so your aim must be perfect against bosses with small hitboxes and you will have to run back to the boss since you need to be far away from it. It is not part of any “meta”. Just a small trick that is mostly useless.

Maybe you should have watched the video. Against bosses with medium to large hitboxes (which is around every boss in dungeons), linecasting Icebow and meteor shower results in around 10 times more burst than any class can do. so much in fact that when you do it, you can kill Lupi in under 11 seconds with your party. “small trick and almost useless” my kitten .

Nemesis.8593:

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

No, I’m not trolling. I want to see the complete thesis written out like everyone else does here. You’re missing a lot of information, and you refuse to acknowledge anything that pokes holes in your hypothesis, even out right insulting these people. This is bad science. You’re not even willing to show us actual math that doesn’t rely on assumptions. There are no assumptions in math, and your math is full of them.

Shiki.7148:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Linecasting is done by dodging back. No fancy fov tricks. It is a waste of time. It moves all random projectiles to the 1 very narrow line so your aim must be perfect against bosses with small hitboxes and you will have to run back to the boss since you need to be far away from it. It is not part of any “meta”. Just a small trick that is mostly useless.

Maybe you should have watched the video. Against bosses with medium to large hitboxes (which is around every boss in dungeons), linecasting Icebow and meteor shower results in around 10 times more burst than any class can do. so much in fact that when you do it, you can kill Lupi in under 11 seconds with your party. “small trick and almost useless” my kitten .

Link with a timestamp of that video.

so many ppl kitten by info about hitting NPC’s ina game that has no challenging PvE-content whatsoever baffles me, but atleast it meens the game is very much alive after 3y.

I enjoy Nemesis and his Vidz tho, think they are well done and with humor aswell but Forum-Warriors and DnT defenders are pathetic.

Nemesis, will the Nosferatu build be shown together with Part II, or will it get its own video? If so, when do you think you can share it with us?

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

No, I’m not trolling. I want to see the complete thesis written out like everyone else does here. You’re missing a lot of information, and you refuse to acknowledge anything that pokes holes in your hypothesis, even out right insulting these people. This is bad science. You’re not even willing to show us actual math that doesn’t rely on assumptions. There are no assumptions in math, and your math is full of them.

I’m not arguing in favour or against what Nemesist is saying here BUT … his video demonstrates his approach to MEASURING DPS (not calculating it; that’s a different thing). If his goal was to correlate some damage model to what happens ingame, then what you are asking for makes sense.

In this case, it does not. He’s simply comparing damage for various scenarios with a practical, empirical method and it’s MUCH more applicable and relevant to illustrating his points than some math that you’re insisting is missing. Dismissing what he’s demonstrating because you don’t think it’s theoretically rigorous enough is nonsense. It’s not garbage science either because there are LOTS of things done empirically for things that aren’t well understood to create practical uses for them.

Dromina.5023:

line casting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJncPGDJ9Ho

Thanks. It’s even worse than I thought! :o

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Shiki.7148:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Linecasting is done by dodging back. No fancy fov tricks. It is a waste of time. It moves all random projectiles to the 1 very narrow line so your aim must be perfect against bosses with small hitboxes and you will have to run back to the boss since you need to be far away from it. It is not part of any “meta”. Just a small trick that is mostly useless.

Maybe you should have watched the video. Against bosses with medium to large hitboxes (which is around every boss in dungeons), linecasting Icebow and meteor shower results in around 10 times more burst than any class can do. so much in fact that when you do it, you can kill Lupi in under 11 seconds with your party. “small trick and almost useless” my kitten .

Link with a timestamp of that video.

https://youtu.be/d2b7dpC0liQ?t=9m54s

Party Scenario, PvP Gear, around 64k DPS.

A little before that is solo which is still 24k+ DPS, a little before that is the damage without line-casting. I’d classify that golem as a “medium sized target”. If you tell me that this isn’t broken then I do not know.

EDIT : If you meant Lupi kill , here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UoLamBy5k . Ignore the Necro title, it is just the Necro picking up the Icebow and being on of the people Linecasting, but essentially that is what happens thx to Icebow linecasting. And the exploit works with meteor shower aswell.

Khristophoros.7194:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

He makes it seam like linecasting is the easiest thing in the world. Plz go post a video of a daily dungeon tour where all the bosses were linecasted. And yes, a FEW bosses have a large HB, but that’s a FEW. Also, you don’t need to linecast to blow up bosses, it’s the fact that bosses have like 0 HP ( which I hope they change in raids ). Also, necromancer isn’t taken because they do slightly less DPS than a warrior, it’s cause warrior can apply banners while running in and then apply AoE might while in a fight. And for what its worth, I think it’s stupid to kick a necro that joins a group. In a casual tour your not going to notice the different between a necro and some other class. Also, just because you find some stupid people in the game that kick necros etc doesn’t mean that’s the majority of people that wear zerker gear. You also make it seam like skipping mobs is a exploit? Go into arah in a “all welcome” group and you will see the hardest part is the skipping. Of course, you can just stealth past which does lessen the skill required pretty much, but you would need to buff thief/engi if you were to take away most of there stealth. But then again, I don’t really expect much, after all, this is coming from the guy that thought stacking on bosses was effected months after the 2nd feature patch which kinda shows you have no clue what he’s talking about whatsoever.

Dude I’m pretty sure his point about linecasting is that the meta is only optimal when you linecast icebow. So he’s calling people scrubs who run the meta and don’t know how to optimize it.

I think that’s really his only good point in the video and it explains my experience pugging.

Sometimes I get groups that are all meta besides my necro. Either by accident or they didn’t specify in the LFG. But usually these groups aren’t particularly fast compared to when I just have a random assortment of professions. Rarely I get people abusing linecasting and doing everything correctly and then it’s really fast.

Sometimes I get random pugs without eles, without anything resembling meta, but it’s really fast. Usually these groups have engineers… because you don’t have to abuse anything special on engi to get massive DPS, you just toss grenades. It blows my mind that engi isn’t more popular.

Yeah, the meta is only optimal when abusing linecasting, that’s why in the world records eles are still taken and engis aren’t………… gotcha.

EDIT: in restricted record runs linecasting isn’t aloud if you weren’t aware

Shiki.7148:

EDIT : If you meant Lupi kill , here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UoLamBy5k . Ignore the Necro title, it is just the Necro picking up the Icebow and being on of the people Linecasting, but essentially that is what happens thx to Icebow linecasting. And the exploit works with meteor shower aswell.

No one is linecasting in that video. It is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow that messes with lupi skill animations and locks him in phase 1 for few more seconds.
I (and pretty much everyone) agree that linecasting is broken but it has little to no use in actual dungeons and fractals because of the additional problems it can cause.

So for shiggles, what is the Necromancer’s PvE rotation?

Drop 2 wells, Lich Deathly Claws, then dagger for the remaining casting wells when they’re available and using Life Blast only when moving at range?

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

I personally never found damage meters to be a bad thing for WoW. With a trinity they generally give a clear overview of who’s performing well and who isn’t (mostly for dps, it’s a bit different for healers).
Gearscore / ilvl on the other hand, now THAT was the dumbest piece of BLEEP factor people ever judged on.

But isn’t in a trinity game dps a group effort (this is my first mmo)? I mean if the healers and tanks do a bad job will the overall dps decrease? I think it would be like tequatl : dps will drop if you have bad turreteers.

Yes it does work like that.
The thing with trinity MMOs is that people have set roles. In a 5 man party you generally have 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 dps. If people die because the tank doesn’t hold aggro, you blame the tank. If people die because they die from non-excessive damage you can blame the healer. If dps dies from standing in fire, or is clearly underperforming on the damage meters (which is where those come in), you can blame the dps.

Now, it’s not a blaming game (as that creates a toxic environment) but at least you can base your opinions on something solid.

In GW2 it’s a lot harder, because:
1) You have no set roles. Everyone needs to do top dps, but also needs to buff. And nobody knows how much those buffs add, or how much damage you can sacrifice for doing X and Y.
2) There is massive lack of factual data. Hardly anyone knows how much dps they do, nobody knows how much dps their might buffs really add. People base most of their opinions on guess work and on what they see.

People think necromancer is kitten, not because necromancer is kitten. But because a party with a guardian, warrior, mesmer and 2 elementalists made a video about how they killed a boss in 10 seconds flat. Using might stacking, time warp, banners, and ice bow.
Nobody even gives a kitten about why that is the case; nobody gives a kitten if banners didn’t contribute at all in that example. But that setup somehow performed a magic trick, SO WE MUST REPLICATE IT AT ALL COST.
LF SPEED RUN MESMER ELE WARRIOR ONLY !

Sometimes I think this game could benefit from damage meters, just so we can get rid of some of the most ridiculous misconceptions that this game contains.
If you’re in any way an experienced MMO player (and I would say I am with nearly 15 years on me), you know that mechanics are WAY more complex than most people assume. It’s like an iceberg, 90% is below the surface.

It’s all just math. If the class sucks in a vacuum where math has shown the theoretical max for the class, it’s not going to magically get better in practice. You’ll assume each player is roughly the same so they drop that max by roughly the same amount leaving you at the same ranking you originally came up with in a vacuum.

The only time this isn’t the case is in niche fights where specific classes are given an advantage. Without a trinity and all DPS classes doing nothing special outside of DPS, there isn’t much of this happening in GW2 unlike in WoW.

Shiki.7148:

EDIT : If you meant Lupi kill , here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UoLamBy5k . Ignore the Necro title, it is just the Necro picking up the Icebow and being on of the people Linecasting, but essentially that is what happens thx to Icebow linecasting. And the exploit works with meteor shower aswell.

OUCH…nemesis, you should explain linecasting again in your part II or your army will make themself ridiculous like it just happend.

you have to go further into detail with #fake math, so they understand what compressing aoe indicators mean (show two circles-> aoe indicators and move one away from the other (“dodge phase”) and see how they overlap -> area where stuff hits. ).
better show it in slow motion, then they will understand it.
and show it on a small target…since big targets like lupicus get hit anyways by all projectiles. but it looks like they did not get that, so be sure to mention that.

Shiki.7148:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Shiki.7148:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Linecasting is done by dodging back. No fancy fov tricks. It is a waste of time. It moves all random projectiles to the 1 very narrow line so your aim must be perfect against bosses with small hitboxes and you will have to run back to the boss since you need to be far away from it. It is not part of any “meta”. Just a small trick that is mostly useless.

Maybe you should have watched the video. Against bosses with medium to large hitboxes (which is around every boss in dungeons), linecasting Icebow and meteor shower results in around 10 times more burst than any class can do. so much in fact that when you do it, you can kill Lupi in under 11 seconds with your party. “small trick and almost useless” my kitten .

Link with a timestamp of that video.

https://youtu.be/d2b7dpC0liQ?t=9m54s

Party Scenario, PvP Gear, around 64k DPS.

A little before that is solo which is still 24k+ DPS, a little before that is the damage without line-casting. I’d classify that golem as a “medium sized target”. If you tell me that this isn’t broken then I do not know.

EDIT : If you meant Lupi kill , here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UoLamBy5k . Ignore the Necro title, it is just the Necro picking up the Icebow and being on of the people Linecasting, but essentially that is what happens thx to Icebow linecasting. And the exploit works with meteor shower aswell.

That wasn’t linecasting on Lupi, at least didn’t look like it, Lupi’s just giant and takes most if not all of the hits anyways.

Line casting is broken, but so is icebow4 period due to it’s variation. You do SO much more damage on larger targets it’s a silly. The DPS of IB4 on a small hitbox target is high, but not absurd, but as you see in that video when they’re the larger size… whoa.

And if you wanna see the linecasting at it’s finest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjKst_eOGn0

Linecasting is two things, one being dodging back to max out the range of your effect, but having placed the ability down already you’ve created it’s target area already. So it’s sort of like a venn diagram, you have the area you placed it, but the effect only lands in the max range radius, so wherever that crossover lies is where the damage happens. Likewise you can manipulate it by placing it on walls/ceilings, the damaging “projectiles” will only land where it is actual targetable space, so if you cut half your meteor shower off by having it on an untargetable wall, then you’ve reduced the area you’re hitting increasing the potency. Do the two together and you have stuff like the video above. I can’t find one with the Ice Bow right now, but it’s kinda silly seeing a solid blue line coming down as number fly off the screen.

It was funny to mess around with for a while, but then we just created the FGS situation again of take the time to position the boss and then watch it blow up… not all that fun, and I don’t know anyone that doesn’t think it needs fixing.

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s all just math. If the class sucks in a vacuum where math has shown the theoretical max for the class, it’s not going to magically get better in practice. You’ll assume each player is roughly the same so they drop that max by roughly the same amount leaving you at the same ranking you originally came up with in a vacuum.

That’s a very strange assumption. Some classes have easier rotations and some have harder rotations, easier rotations will less likely be deviated from due player error.
Also damage is in some rotations loaded on a select few skills and some are spread out over all skills. These damage loaded skills are most likely harder to land (100 blades come to mind) and will be negated (by moving or being forced to dodge) more then other skills.

Tim.6450:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s all just math. If the class sucks in a vacuum where math has shown the theoretical max for the class, it’s not going to magically get better in practice. You’ll assume each player is roughly the same so they drop that max by roughly the same amount leaving you at the same ranking you originally came up with in a vacuum.

That’s a very strange assumption. Some classes have easier rotations and some have harder rotations, easier rotations will less likely be deviated from due player error.
Also damage is in some rotations loaded on a select few skills and some are spread out over all skills. These damage loaded skills are most likely harder to land (100 blades come to mind) and will be negated (by moving or being forced to dodge) more then other skills.

Unless a fight has an excessive amount of movement and moves the fight into niche territory, things generally hold true. Especially in GW2 where the vast majority of fights are timed intervals and have very limited movement.

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run…
…
Come on, do your part

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

The burden of proof is on your end.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

So which is it?
Are you asking others to do those calculations (which have been done many times anyway) or are you doing them in part 2?

Also, we’re really not trying to be rude. But Nemesis, whenever someone challenges the things you say you’re accusing them of being trolls. Why would you expect to be taken seriously when you’re not extending the same courtesy to others?

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run…
…
Come on, do your part

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

The burden of proof is on your end.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

So which is it?
Are you asking others to do those calculations (which have been done many times anyway) or are you doing them in part 2?

Also, we’re really not trying to be rude. But Nemesis, whenever someone challenges the things you say you’re accusing them of being trolls. Why would you expect to be taken seriously when you’re not extending the same courtesy to others?

I’m not even sure what he wants, but if it’s even remotely relevant it will be in part II, if it’s not… it won’t be.
If any of you would like to invest idk how many hours of work, for free.. to satisfy someone else’s curiosity… by all means… in fact… while we are at it… can someone provide me with some elementalist footage, when he is NOT using the Icebow ?

I’m having a difficult time obtaining some

I am doing enough as it is for the community… for free…
You will thank me one day.

Nemesis.8593:

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run…
…
Come on, do your part

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

The burden of proof is on your end.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

So which is it?
Are you asking others to do those calculations (which have been done many times anyway) or are you doing them in part 2?

Also, we’re really not trying to be rude. But Nemesis, whenever someone challenges the things you say you’re accusing them of being trolls. Why would you expect to be taken seriously when you’re not extending the same courtesy to others?

I’m not even sure what he wants, but if it’s even remotely relevant it will be in part II, if it’s not… it won’t be.
If any of you would like to invest idk how many hours of work, for free.. to satisfy someone else’s curiosity… by all means… in fact… while we are at it… can someone provide me with some elementalist footage, when he is NOT using the Icebow ?

I’m having a difficult time obtaining some

I am doing enough as it is for the community… for free…
You will thank me one day.

Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this?

He makes it seam like linecasting is the easiest thing in the world. Plz go post a video of a daily dungeon tour where all the bosses were linecasted. And yes, a FEW bosses have a large HB, but that’s a FEW. Also, you don’t need to linecast to blow up bosses, it’s the fact that bosses have like 0 HP ( which I hope they change in raids ). Also, necromancer isn’t taken because they do slightly less DPS than a warrior, it’s cause warrior can apply banners while running in and then apply AoE might while in a fight. And for what its worth, I think it’s stupid to kick a necro that joins a group. In a casual tour your not going to notice the different between a necro and some other class. Also, just because you find some stupid people in the game that kick necros etc doesn’t mean that’s the majority of people that wear zerker gear. You also make it seam like skipping mobs is a exploit? Go into arah in a “all welcome” group and you will see the hardest part is the skipping. Of course, you can just stealth past which does lessen the skill required pretty much, but you would need to buff thief/engi if you were to take away most of there stealth.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Nemesis.8593:

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run…
…
Come on, do your part

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

The burden of proof is on your end.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

So which is it?
Are you asking others to do those calculations (which have been done many times anyway) or are you doing them in part 2?

Also, we’re really not trying to be rude. But Nemesis, whenever someone challenges the things you say you’re accusing them of being trolls. Why would you expect to be taken seriously when you’re not extending the same courtesy to others?

I’m not even sure what he wants, but if it’s even remotely relevant it will be in part II, if it’s not… it won’t be.
If any of you would like to invest idk how many hours of work, for free.. to satisfy someone else’s curiosity… by all means… in fact… while we are at it… can someone provide me with some elementalist footage, when he is NOT using the Icebow ?

I’m having a difficult time obtaining some

I am doing enough as it is for the community… for free…
You will thank me one day.

Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this?

He makes it seam like linecasting is the easiest thing in the world. Plz go post a video of a daily dungeon tour where all the bosses were linecasted. And yes, a FEW bosses have a large HB, but that’s a FEW. Also, you don’t need to linecast to blow up bosses, it’s the fact that bosses have like 0 HP ( which I hope they change in raids ). Also, necromancer isn’t taken because they do slightly less DPS than a warrior, it’s cause warrior can apply banners while running in and then apply AoE might while in a fight. And for what its worth, I think it’s stupid to kick a necro that joins a group. In a casual tour your not going to notice the different between a necro and some other class. Also, just because you find some stupid people in the game that kick necros etc doesn’t mean that’s the majority of people that wear zerker gear. You also make it seam like skipping mobs is a exploit? Go into arah in a “all welcome” group and you will see the hardest part is the skipping. Of course, you can just stealth past which does lessen the skill required pretty much, but you would need to buff thief/engi if you were to take away most of there stealth.

Well…i saw that DnT video ONCE, then tried it for fun… got it down first try. So yeah, it IS that easy on almost all bosses cause they do not friggin’ move or they charge the enemy currently closest to them. The only boss I’d have problems hitting it on is Flame Citadel p3 endboss because he chooses who to go after seemingly random and then goes in his invuln phase, generally running all over the place.

For reference, this is the video i watched before trying out Line Casting :

Try it yourself in the PvP lobby, it is really, really easy.

And while bosses generelly take only little time to defeat it is just no comparison to how fast they die with line casting.

And finally at the guy that said Brazil wasn’t linecasting: Yes, for all intents and purposes he was. Because lupi stood against a wall and setting the AE marker half on a wall naturally causes all hits to only apply on the part that is on the ground. Line casting is simply doing that anytime, anywhere by casting the spell directly after dodging while targeting at max range.

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Shiki.7148:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Nemesis.8593:

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

I’m still waiting for you to show me the base numbers on that DPS of warrior vs necro that I asked for almost two years ago.

You can always do it yourself… record a warrior run, record a necromancer run…
…
Come on, do your part

Nemesis.8593:

Kravick.4906:

The burden of proof is on your end.

Do i not keep saying i am working on part II… What do i keep saying…

Ohhhh you’re ignoring what i say because you are trolling… oh man… you got me good there…

So which is it?
Are you asking others to do those calculations (which have been done many times anyway) or are you doing them in part 2?

Also, we’re really not trying to be rude. But Nemesis, whenever someone challenges the things you say you’re accusing them of being trolls. Why would you expect to be taken seriously when you’re not extending the same courtesy to others?

I’m not even sure what he wants, but if it’s even remotely relevant it will be in part II, if it’s not… it won’t be.
If any of you would like to invest idk how many hours of work, for free.. to satisfy someone else’s curiosity… by all means… in fact… while we are at it… can someone provide me with some elementalist footage, when he is NOT using the Icebow ?

I’m having a difficult time obtaining some

I am doing enough as it is for the community… for free…
You will thank me one day.

Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this?

He makes it seam like linecasting is the easiest thing in the world. Plz go post a video of a daily dungeon tour where all the bosses were linecasted. And yes, a FEW bosses have a large HB, but that’s a FEW. Also, you don’t need to linecast to blow up bosses, it’s the fact that bosses have like 0 HP ( which I hope they change in raids ). Also, necromancer isn’t taken because they do slightly less DPS than a warrior, it’s cause warrior can apply banners while running in and then apply AoE might while in a fight. And for what its worth, I think it’s stupid to kick a necro that joins a group. In a casual tour your not going to notice the different between a necro and some other class. Also, just because you find some stupid people in the game that kick necros etc doesn’t mean that’s the majority of people that wear zerker gear. You also make it seam like skipping mobs is a exploit? Go into arah in a “all welcome” group and you will see the hardest part is the skipping. Of course, you can just stealth past which does lessen the skill required pretty much, but you would need to buff thief/engi if you were to take away most of there stealth.

Well…i saw that DnT video ONCE, then tried it for fun… got it down first try. So yeah, it IS that easy on almost all bosses cause they do not friggin’ move or they charge the enemy currently closest to them. The only boss I’d have problems hitting it on is Flame Citadel p3 endboss because he chooses who to go after seemingly random and then goes in his invuln phase, generally running all over the place.

For reference, this is the video i watched before trying out Line Casting :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJncPGDJ9Ho

Try it yourself in the PvP lobby, it is really, really easy.

I’m asking for a video. Because anyone can claim to do it just fine. AND it matter how much time it takes you to get in position and actually do it. Doesn’t matter if you can do it if it takes 10 seconds to do it when the boss is already at like 2% HP. Not to mention you will be out of range of PS and banners then. Even if you can get this down on almost all the bosses perfectly ( which I would like to see lol, if you recorded a dungeon tour or something where you did it I would love to see ), there is other above mentioned factors to take into consideration which I highly doubt nemesis thought about.

EDIT: what Spoj said lol.
EDIT 2: linecasting on stationary mobs in HotM? I ment against real bosses not target dummies.

Shiki.7148:

And finally at the guy that said Brazil wasn’t linecasting: Yes, for all intents and purposes he was. Because lupi stood against a wall and setting the AE marker half on a wall naturally causes all hits to only apply on the part that is on the ground. Line casting is simply doing that anytime, anywhere by casting the spell directly after dodging while targeting at max range.

You are still talking about this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UoLamBy5k ? Because they killed lupi on his spawn point away from any walls.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Shiki.7148:

And finally at the guy that said Brazil wasn’t linecasting: Yes, for all intents and purposes he was. Because lupi stood against a wall and setting the AE marker half on a wall naturally causes all hits to only apply on the part that is on the ground. Line casting is simply doing that anytime, anywhere by casting the spell directly after dodging while targeting at max range.

You are still talking about this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UoLamBy5k ? Because they killed lupi on his spawn point away from any walls.

lololololololol

Shiki.7148:

And finally at the guy that said Brazil wasn’t linecasting: Yes, for all intents and purposes he was. Because lupi stood against a wall and setting the AE marker half on a wall naturally causes all hits to only apply on the part that is on the ground. Line casting is simply doing that anytime, anywhere by casting the spell directly after dodging while targeting at max range.

Umm… no he wasn’t Take a look again they fought him right on the spawn, which is probably about his hit box’s radius away from the wall if not a bit more. That situation has nothing to do with linecasting it has to do with the incredible variable elements of Ice Bow 4, Meteor Shower and Spite (correct if if there are more) and how they do drastically different levels of damage depending on hitbox size.

As for the ease of linecasting, yes and no. For the dodging, it’s not uncommon to see the boss hightail it out of all the other field type AE’s to catch the person linecasting, missing the end of the line casted spell and lowering overall damage. The Wall type is just not always practical to set up and setting it up can often take more time than the fight would have otherwise (take Mage Crusher in a full group for example, fighting on spawn is fastest, though the fastest solo I’ve seen used a lot of it). There is a spot for the Abomination in p2 as well where you can get that just blue stream from the Ice Bow, but it takes a perfect yank into the spot and no random movements which bosses do sometimes do, so it’s a fickle beast.

And that’s one of the reasons it was banned from the record run community. Many if not most just didn’t like the idea, and the others that voted against did so because it is so fickle. Subject Alpha is notorious for just randomly taking a few steps away. So it can be annoying to set it all up and have it just whiff by no fault of your own. Valid concern, but I’m surely more of the side that just dislikes Ice Bow in general.

Either way I don’t think anyone’s really arguing for linecasting, it’s just some people hating it, others correcting some misconceptions but agreeing to it’s imbalanced power.

Now Ice Bow in general I know some people love it, others don’t but yeah… whatever

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

Yeah, I think it should be like ranger 5 on LB

Obtena.7952:

Aenesthesia.1697:

SlyDevil.3952:

Where exactly is this exploit being used that you consider it the only thing holding necros back from being generally accepted as meta? Since you know, you’d have to compare the non-icebow dps of every other class to necros before deciding whether or not it was the best choice for the available dps slots.

Actually, the only thing that has put us in this stupid discriminating situation, is not the lack of offensive buffs, or the not so good dps, nor the linecasting icebow.

It’s the lack of a damage recount tool.

In all my years in wow i never saw such discrimination against a class. Why? because you had Recount to separate the real damage dealers vs the rest.

That kind of tool would be death for any in class in this game that wasn’t #1 because lacking trinity. The actual problem is WoW-type players who think that’s how performance is measured.

the actual problem cannot have anything to do with a tool that doesn’t exist in the game, nor with players of a game that never discriminated any profession.

And if a player cannot see why a ps warrior is wanted in the party, even though he doesn’t output top dps, then i probably want to know who that player is, so i can kick him out of the fractal group (i would keep the guy for dungeons, as dungeons are silly, but fractals is another thing)

Nyth.3492:

I think a recount (dps meter) would be a bad addition to GW2. But solely for the fact that 95% of the people have no clue how to interpret them in a non-trinity setting. They see the phalanx warrior doing 70% of the DPS of the others and don’t see past the fact that he’s using a sub optimal dps spec to buff the whole party for more overall damage.

Well, it would at least do justice by good players. RIght now, no matter how good you are, you receive hate for playing an underrated class.

Nyth.3492:

But the problem in GW2 is, that people are still drawing the same conclusions. But instead of reading (and often misinterpreting) damage meters; people now base their opinions on “gutfeeling”, hearsay about “meta” and sites which proclaim which composition is optimal for their run.
Badly played elementalists are guaranteed spots even though they might be horrible; and well played necromancers are dismissed before even seeing combat.

this is why i think we need recount. So people won’t discriminate based on something they heard or read, and so people don’t think this game can be mastered by just having the meta build. Many people have to realize they suck. Me too, probably, but i cannot say for certain since there’s no practical way for me to know for sure!

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

The thing is literally everyone agrees already. There is no new discussion to be had about it.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

I think everyone agrees on anything larger than player size hitboxes it’s too much. Problem is it’s not just Icebow, it’s also meteor, I would say just make them like ranger barrage, but then I think about that in WvW with meteor mainly, giant fields of ticking 10k hits? my god. For Ice Bow I wouldn’t consider it an issue but meteor, I think you’d need to lower the radius, but then that really detracts from it’s uses. Ehh, I don’t disagree at all, but I see it as a complicated issue as far as how to do it.

spoj.9672:

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Hasn’t line-casting been fixed? My little brother used to use it with ice bow and meteor shower in wvw raids but he says it’s been patched and can no longer do it with dodging or burning retreat.

Is it still possible to pull it off?

Zetsumei.4975:

spoj.9672:

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Hasn’t line-casting been fixed? My brother used to use it with ice bow and meteor shower in wvw raids but he says it’s been patched and can no longer do it with dodging or burning retreat.

Is it still possible to pull it off?

Yup, maybe the timing changed or something specific he did changed, but you can still do it with dodge at least.

Jerus.4350:

Zetsumei.4975:

spoj.9672:

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Hasn’t line-casting been fixed? My brother used to use it with ice bow and meteor shower in wvw raids but he says it’s been patched and can no longer do it with dodging or burning retreat.

Is it still possible to pull it off?

Yup, maybe the timing changed or something specific he did changed, but you can still do it with dodge at least.

Hmm so is it cast>dodge>stand? Dodge>hit cast while in dodge motion, could really booost his effectiveness on raids. Ill get him to do some testing.

(I dunno how he did it the first time round xD)