Guild Wars 2

Zetsumei.4975:

Jerus.4350:

Zetsumei.4975:

spoj.9672:

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Hasn’t line-casting been fixed? My brother used to use it with ice bow and meteor shower in wvw raids but he says it’s been patched and can no longer do it with dodging or burning retreat.

Is it still possible to pull it off?

Yup, maybe the timing changed or something specific he did changed, but you can still do it with dodge at least.

Hmm so is it cast>dodge>stand? Dodge>hit cast while in dodge motion, could really booost his effectiveness on raids. Ill get him to do some testing.

(I dunno how he did it the first time round xD)

Pulling it off in WvW I imagine would be tough with how much you move, plus possibily not that effective in that again people move. But, I know I’ve done it and it was sick when it worked. It’s basically set your thing at furthest range, dodge and begin the cast at a further range than is possible as you end dodge. Really easy with the new max range settings, just hold your cast ready to go, dodge and release.

Jerus.4350:

Zetsumei.4975:

Jerus.4350:

Zetsumei.4975:

spoj.9672:

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Hasn’t line-casting been fixed? My brother used to use it with ice bow and meteor shower in wvw raids but he says it’s been patched and can no longer do it with dodging or burning retreat.

Is it still possible to pull it off?

Yup, maybe the timing changed or something specific he did changed, but you can still do it with dodge at least.

Hmm so is it cast>dodge>stand? Dodge>hit cast while in dodge motion, could really booost his effectiveness on raids. Ill get him to do some testing.

(I dunno how he did it the first time round xD)

Pulling it off in WvW I imagine would be tough with how much you move, plus possibily not that effective in that again people move. But, I know I’ve done it and it was sick when it worked. It’s basically set your thing at furthest range, dodge and begin the cast at a further range than is possible as you end dodge. Really easy with the new max range settings, just hold your cast ready to go, dodge and release.

Ahhh ok I think the max range thing is something he didn’t try when he was showing me it no longer works. About the practicality xD he’s a bit of a one man army as long as I show him how I’m sure we can make it work he can juggle doing many things at once while under pressure.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

You know, I’ve made two threads about it in the past two months. I’ll go bump the latest one and link it here. You can see peoples’ “arguments” and maybe we’ll see more.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Hey-Anet-can-you-nerf-Ice-Bow-yet/first

Oh, you actually posted in that thread.

Anyway point is there are still people who defend ice bow. x.x

Khristophoros.7194:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

You know, I’ve made two threads about it in the past two months. I’ll go bump the latest one and link it here. You can see peoples’ “arguments” and maybe we’ll see more.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Hey-Anet-can-you-nerf-Ice-Bow-yet/first

Oh, you actually posted in that thread.

Anyway point is there are still people who defend ice bow. x.x

Ah, it seems I did. I did say that I was aware it was OP from general chatter but I had no idea it was this bad.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Khristophoros.7194:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Regardless of whether linecasting was used or not, is there really any rational argument to be had that Ice Bow 4 shouldn’t be nerfed? It clearly deals way too much damage to bosses with large hitboxes, even if you don’t take the further step of glitching out the casting area.

You know, I’ve made two threads about it in the past two months. I’ll go bump the latest one and link it here. You can see peoples’ “arguments” and maybe we’ll see more.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Hey-Anet-can-you-nerf-Ice-Bow-yet/first

Oh, you actually posted in that thread.

Anyway point is there are still people who defend ice bow. x.x

Ah, it seems I did. I did say that I was aware it was OP from general chatter but I had no idea it was this bad.

I wasn’t aware of linecasting when I made that thread, but I had seen people who were most likely abusing it.

What I don’t see many people commenting on is that the comparison of DPS is between a phalanx warrior and a necromancer.

You currently don’t take a warrior in your party for its DPS, you take it for amazing might, decent vuln application, EA and banners which translates into;

• +1070 power
• +8% crit chance
• +11.33% crit damage
• 5-7 vuln

for the entire group. All in all a group wide DPS boost of ~45%.

If you have more than one warrior in the group you cripple the team just as much as if you would have a necromancer. So what does it matter if necromancers have similar DPS to a warrior? A warrior wouldn’t have a slot in the meta if it wouldn’t bring all that DPS boost.

Why do we need a 28 minutes video filled with contempt and fallacy to come to a conclusion (most) people already share?
Or perhaps this is directed solely to delusional pugs, in which case I think it’s safe to say they won’t be reached with this approach.

Typical Nemesis video.

90% of what he says is wrong. Bad interpration of facts, mixed with his own, clear “meta sucks” opinion and he still misses alot of basics about it.

Just ignore it, best what u can do.

Remember his “15k awesome! 15k 15k 15k…..axe dps guide”.
he told u it was maxdps, even if we all know that dagger is doing much more dps.

Necromancers need a huge dps boost for pve.

Norjena.5172:

Typical Nemesis video.

90% of what he says is wrong. Bad interpration of facts, mixed with his own, clear “meta sucks” opinion and he still misses alot of basics about it.

Just ignore it, best what u can do.

Remember his “15k awesome! 15k 15k 15k…..axe dps guide”.
he told u it was maxdps, even if we all know that dagger is doing much more dps.

Necromancers need a huge dps boost for pve.

Both The Nemesis and The Developers are so dumb for saying that necromancer is actually fine…

How can the entire community be wrong… and Nemesis be right ?… RIIIGHT ?
Hahahaha…

Part II will turn me into a living legend

Jerus.4350:

Zetsumei.4975:

Jerus.4350:

Zetsumei.4975:

spoj.9672:

Yeah except its not practical in a lot of situations. Especially in pugs. And organised groups dont do it because its basically frowned upon and was banned from records.

Hasn’t line-casting been fixed? My brother used to use it with ice bow and meteor shower in wvw raids but he says it’s been patched and can no longer do it with dodging or burning retreat.

Is it still possible to pull it off?

Yup, maybe the timing changed or something specific he did changed, but you can still do it with dodge at least.

Hmm so is it cast>dodge>stand? Dodge>hit cast while in dodge motion, could really booost his effectiveness on raids. Ill get him to do some testing.

(I dunno how he did it the first time round xD)

Pulling it off in WvW I imagine would be tough with how much you move, plus possibily not that effective in that again people move. But, I know I’ve done it and it was sick when it worked. It’s basically set your thing at furthest range, dodge and begin the cast at a further range than is possible as you end dodge. Really easy with the new max range settings, just hold your cast ready to go, dodge and release.

Figured out why it wasnt working lol its because we use insta-cast, switched to fast with range indicator n it worked !

Edit: ok lol apparently the DnT guy was wrong, my brother managed to do it with insta-cast its just that he had to get the max range perfect.

Snowball.3497:

You currently don’t take a warrior in your party for its DPS, you take it for amazing might, decent vuln application, EA and banners which translates into;

• +1070 power
• +8% crit chance
• +11.33% crit damage
• 5-7 vuln

for the entire group. All in all a group wide DPS boost of ~45%.

I don’t think nemesis disputes this. However I think a LOT of people are missing the point he is trying to make and that is that the current meta is only due to the speed of kills on a boss, and the relative OPness of icebow. In short fights where speed of the kill is all that matters the warrior is king buffer due to the speed at which it can get those buffs up. In a 10 second fight getting a full stack of might in a second or two for the whole group is key to getting those records. Most classes can get themselves very high on the might stacks solo, but it’s too slow for a 10 second fight. This skews the warrior in terms of a buff bot in current content.

However make those fights last a significant amount of time (3 minutes plus) and the warrior loses a bit of it’s usefulness. It’s no longer key to burst out that might ASAP as it doesn’t make that much difference over the longer term. So when most people can produce significant stacks of might themselves the amount of buffage the warrior brings drops a lot. Now he pretty much just brings EP and banners (though still significant I admit), but might is catered for by self buffing and blast fields, fury by the ele and vulnerability by loads of classes (necro especially).

In a long 3 minute fight it could also be that stacking 25 vuln in the first few seconds adds more damage overall than stacking 25 might, because once you are past that initial burst it’s more about sustain. In which case necro’s as well placed to really help with this. Take away the need for that insta might buff and warriors (while still obviously strong) are not as strong as the current speed kill meta makes them. At this point once buffing starts to become less important, and DPS starts to increase in importance. Nemesis also make the point that the current meta is built around burst damage not true DPS taken over a long period, and is artificially increased by icebow and Timewarp.

There are other points as well butpeople have missed them in clear attempts to bash him (and yes his demeanor doesn’t help here) and just look at the (admittedly contentious) numbers he put out. The general gist is the current meta is enforced because of X and Y and is a VERY specific and artificial case that will likely change in HoT. What people are reading is LOL Necro > Warr

There are no 3 minutes plus fights in this game even without an icebow. There could be 3 minutes plus fights in the raids but since we don’t know anything and there is no raid “meta” it is all kinda pointless.

Narenek.9085:

Snowball.3497:

You currently don’t take a warrior in your party for its DPS, you take it for amazing might, decent vuln application, EA and banners which translates into;

• +1070 power
• +8% crit chance
• +11.33% crit damage
• 5-7 vuln

for the entire group. All in all a group wide DPS boost of ~45%.

I don’t think nemesis disputes this. However I think a LOT of people are missing the point he is trying to make and that is that the current meta is only due to the speed of kills on a boss, and the relative OPness of icebow. In short fights where speed of the kill is all that matters the warrior is king buffer due to the speed at which it can get those buffs up. In a 10 second fight getting a full stack of might in a second or two for the whole group is key to getting those records. Most classes can get themselves very high on the might stacks solo, but it’s too slow for a 10 second fight. This skews the warrior in terms of a buff bot in current content.

However make those fights last a significant amount of time (3 minutes plus) and the warrior loses a bit of it’s usefulness. It’s no longer key to burst out that might ASAP as it doesn’t make that much difference over the longer term. So when most people can produce significant stacks of might themselves the amount of buffage the warrior brings drops a lot. Now he pretty much just brings EP and banners (though still significant I admit), but might is catered for by self buffing and blast fields, fury by the ele and vulnerability by loads of classes (necro especially).

In a long 3 minute fight it could also be that stacking 25 vuln in the first few seconds adds more damage overall than stacking 25 might, because once you are past that initial burst it’s more about sustain. In which case necro’s as well placed to really help with this. Take away the need for that insta might buff and warriors (while still obviously strong) are not as strong as the current speed kill meta makes them. At this point once buffing starts to become less important, and DPS starts to increase in importance. Nemesis also make the point that the current meta is built around burst damage not true DPS taken over a long period, and is artificially increased by icebow and Timewarp.

There are other points as well butpeople have missed them in clear attempts to bash him (and yes his demeanor doesn’t help here) and just look at the (admittedly contentious) numbers he put out. The general gist is the current meta is enforced because of X and Y and is a VERY specific and artificial case that will likely change in HoT. What people are reading is LOL Necro > Warr

Few things you’re missing. First, “true DPS,” DPS is Damage Per Second, there’s nothing untrue about a burst of 100k over 10s = 10k DPS, that’s it’s Damage Per Second. What he and you are calling “True DPS” is more commonly referred to as Sustained DPS, what can you do when a fight goes longer and the effect of your initial burst isn’t as impactful.

But, that said, Nemesis decided to use his Lich form for the comparison, he was showing burst comparisons. If we go to a more sustained situation you’ll actually see warrior pulling ahead because they really don’t have that much in the form of long cooldown burst skills, they do have some though including an initial actual “burst skill” (even that is an 8s recharge ability) but overall they aren’t as burst reliant when you compare to a 180s cooldown Lich, or even a 27s Engi Grenade Barrage. For a PS warrior you’re looking at a rotation of skills on 10s recharge Whirlwind, 8s hundred blades/arcing slice, longest being 20s Rush. You could also mention the Banners which don’t have a 100% uptime so if we’re talking a 3 minute fight yeah some of their buffage will drop. But, during that time they’re still capable of 20+ Might stacks for the party, some Vuln, and EA (equivalent of an additional 6 might stacks above cap). There’s nothing time limited about those effects.

I guess it’s easiest visualized (at least for me) that all professions have an sort of ebb and flow of rolling DPS (the DPS up to the time the fight is currently at) you’ll have periods of high and low dps averaging out to a total in the middle of those two. Most rotations have you starting with banging out all your big stuff, so you start high flowing in with damage, as you use them all up your damage quickly drops while you’re stuck say Auto-attacking. This is true for all professions, including necro. With warrior you have short gaps between the peaks of this curve. With a Necro you’re dropping your wells possibly poping lich, and the distance between the peaks is quite large, you start high, then drop and sit at a stable low for a while (either dagger 1 or DS 1) until your wells and larger attacks come off and you’re able to throw up another peak. Again, Warrior you’re looking at 8s gaps between ~3-4s peaks of Hundred Blades/Whirlwind/Arcing Slice/Rush/GS4. It’s actually pretty darn consistent. Relying more on Vulnerability which in the current meta is very burst focused not bringing full 25 stack uptime.

That is something necro can do pretty well, but, why aren’t they considered for it? Well, if we were to do a lot of longer fights we’d default to the profession who not only supplies half the vulnerability for the group on bosses and all of it on trash but also brings more to the group even if you just left it at stealth production. So that’s why people look down on Necro, they really can’t catch a break, even things they do well there are others that do it better while bringing more. It’s unfortunate, now in a PUG where people are being stupid (leaving banners behind, not blasting the smoke field/fire field themselves, and generally simply being unaware of what’s happening) I see no reason to not take a necro if you’re playing that way, especially when you consider that necro’s so easy to hit near their max potential damage while say an Ele, not so much.

But that’s enough for my pedantic rant. Just really irked me seeing a claim of “true DPS” because as long as you’re taking the Damage and deviding it by the Time in seconds then you’re talking Damage per Second. If you want to define it towards a specific type, use a qualifier to clarify your meaning.

In the case of the short fights then burst does = DPS because the fight is over pretty much before the burst conditions run out. However just watch the solo vids where people are in the fight damaging opponents for the whole fight. the damage gets nowhere close to what is seen in the boss kills. This alone proves that the short fights are not true representations of DPS but an exaggerated artifical DPS.

So yeah i Agree about Burst and Sustained DPS, but raids will have burst phases and won’t be all burst DPS. the current meta is all about Burst so therefore is not true DPS when refering to the longer fights we will have in raids. there burst DPS will be the better masure of a class

TheRandomGuy.7246:

There are no 3 minutes plus fights in this game even without an icebow. There could be 3 minutes plus fights in the raids but since we don’t know anything and there is no raid “meta” it is all kinda pointless.

If you seriously think the fights won’t be 3 min plus then sorry but I don’t know how to convince you otherwise. But look at the world bosses in this game at level 80 and how long those fights last, then look at what raids are in every other game and you will have your likely answer. Raids = challenging fights with multi phases and not over short periods. Seriously if the fights are sub 3 minutes then Anet will not have bought raiding to GW2 but just extended dungeons

Narenek.9085:

In the case of the short fights then burst does = DPS because the fight is over pretty much before the burst conditions run out. However just watch the solo vids where people are in the fight damaging opponents for the whole fight. the damage gets nowhere close to what is seen in the boss kills. This alone proves that the short fights are not true representations of DPS but an exaggerated artifical DPS.

So yeah i Agree about Burst and Sustained DPS, but raids will have burst phases and won’t be all burst DPS. the current meta is all about Burst so therefore is not true DPS when refering to the longer fights we will have in raids. there burst DPS will be the better masure of a class

Beta EQ player here too, always fun to meet others.

But, there you go again calling it artificial, there’s nothing artificial about it, just that certain parameters have to be recognized. It’s true many people take it out of context, but doesn’t change the validity just says something about those people.

But, yes hopefully raids change the dynamics and the burst focus goes away. Then there will be more discussion based on 3-5 min fights rather than on 10-30s ones. The commonly seen represented DPS numbers will drop. Again though, there’s nothing untrue about what we currently see though, they’re just often misunderstood.

Narenek.9085:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

There are no 3 minutes plus fights in this game even without an icebow. There could be 3 minutes plus fights in the raids but since we don’t know anything and there is no raid “meta” it is all kinda pointless.

If you seriously think the fights won’t be 3 min plus then sorry but I don’t know how to convince you otherwise. But look at the world bosses in this game at level 80 and how long those fights last, then look at what raids are in every other game and you will have your likely answer. Raids = challenging fights with multi phases and not over short periods. Seriously if the fights are sub 3 minutes then Anet will not have bought raiding to GW2 but just extended dungeons

Just a quick comment but very curious how long it would take to down some of the world bosses if everyone was optimized? Anyways, I agree with everything else you said, they better be at LEAST 3 mins long.

Jerus.4350:

Narenek.9085:

In the case of the short fights then burst does = DPS because the fight is over pretty much before the burst conditions run out. However just watch the solo vids where people are in the fight damaging opponents for the whole fight. the damage gets nowhere close to what is seen in the boss kills. This alone proves that the short fights are not true representations of DPS but an exaggerated artifical DPS.

So yeah i Agree about Burst and Sustained DPS, but raids will have burst phases and won’t be all burst DPS. the current meta is all about Burst so therefore is not true DPS when refering to the longer fights we will have in raids. there burst DPS will be the better masure of a class

Beta EQ player here too, always fun to meet others.

But, there you go again calling it artificial, there’s nothing artificial about it, just that certain parameters have to be recognized. It’s true many people take it out of context, but doesn’t change the validity just says something about those people.

But, yes hopefully raids change the dynamics and the burst focus goes away. Then there will be more discussion based on 3-5 min fights rather than on 10-30s ones. The commonly seen represented DPS numbers will drop. Again though, there’s nothing untrue about what we currently see though, they’re just often misunderstood.

I think we mean generally the same thing just using slightly different definitions

I generally don’t count burst as True DPS (in this game at least) because it doesn’t truly represent the fight. While it’s true you can currently burst down the bosses in dungeons it’s only because players now severely out gear them (they are meant be done in yellow gear really). When people first ran dungeons that was when the DPS was ‘true’ or related to the content and it’s level (you could never do the almost 100% under burst conditions kills you do now). In WoW say you’d never count a players real DPS by going into old content which they over gear and measure it against the bosses there.. and that’s what the current meta does in effect.

As a result it hopelessly skews the usefulness of classes and presents as false view of true balance. Raids should present a clearer picture but unfortunately I think too many players will try to stick to this dumb inaccurate meta.

PS: Played on Tallon Zek .. god that was fun. Fighting guild wars just to control a zone so you could attempt to kill a boss. Did eventually move to Payhammer though when raids started getting to late for my euro time zone.

First, Nice, I never did the faction servers really but I was a Rallos Zek guy, funny accidentally forgetting that you shouldn’t use that AE spell around your group and hitting them Flowers of Happiness Represent.

I hear what you’re getting at. That dynamic of intended gear level is surely something that’s a bit strange with this game when you consider all the stuff. I guess you could say Fractal 50’s are intended for max gear? Ehh either way I get what you’re trying to say, not sure I like the word choice but yeah.

Though even at level with green gear and lacking many traits/skills you can still lay a whooping on the spider queen quite quickly with a decent well played team comp. There’s simply not very many endurance fights in this game, at least not once you know what you’re doing (not wearing full defensive gear taking hits right and left then backing out to kite… etc)

Just in case anyone’s interested, this is the total damage done by nemesis in 30 seconds : http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#1 which means his DPS was http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#0, not 14.7k .

x)

Sysakes.3260:

Just in case anyone’s interested, this is the total damage done by nemesis in 30 seconds : http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#1 which means his DPS was http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#0, not 14.7k .

Shots fired, but as he keeps stating, his math won’t appear until part 2 at least, and possibly never.

Narenek.9085:

snippity things and stuff

If you look at the classes in the meta, they also have the highest sustained dps(ele sitting up closer to 19k single target sustatined, ~32k on large hitboxes, lupi, etc..) even if the fights take longer, the meta won’t change unless the mechanics are overhauled.

Also, warrior becomes even more important in long fights, the longer the fights, the less might other people are generating after the first 25 stack, eles only have 1 and a bit blasts, guards none, mesmers none, war is almost the only generator, the longer the fight the more important they are.

Sysakes.3260:

Just in case anyone’s interested, this is the total damage done by nemesis in 30 seconds : http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#1 which means his DPS was http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#0, not 14.7k .

Oh my god… seriously… OH MY GOD… i have no absolutely no words to describe this…

Are you seriously going to put the calculator on TOP of the boss’s HP so we won’t notice he is actually at half HP… in the first fight (as you can see by the party members on the left), which was the weakest one because i had weakness on as i was doing my highest burst, and i posted it on purpose just to bait people in… since i knew that’s what people were expecting… and after the screen goes black… i proved your expectations wrong…

You’re going to calculate my DPS for half a fight… before i even go in Lich Form under Timewarp ?…

Necromancer’s DPS increase by 20% after the boss goes under 50% health… and i saved up Lich Form and Timewarp to skyrocket my DPS towards the end…

I am speechless… i can’t believe the lengths at which you people go just to invent bullkitten about my video…

HAHAHAHAHA… OH MY GOD !… HAHAHAHAHA…
I saw how people are already laughing because they believe it ahahahahaha… SPOJ ACTUALLY BELIVED THAT… HAHAHAHA…

Dude… thank you… just got home, checked the forums… hahahaha… can’t stop laughing…

Nemesis.8593:

Sysakes.3260:

Just in case anyone’s interested, this is the total damage done by nemesis in 30 seconds : http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#1 which means his DPS was http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#0, not 14.7k .

Oh my god… seriously… OH MY GOD… i have no absolutely no words to describe this…

Are you seriously going to put the calculator on TOP of the boss’s HP so we won’t notice he is actually at half HP… in the first fight (as you can see by the party members on the left), which was the weakest one because i had weakness on as i was doing my highest burst, and i posted it on purpose just to bait people in… since i knew that’s what people were expecting… and after the screen goes black… i proved your expectations wrong…

You’re going to calculate my DPS for half a fight… before i even go in Lich Form under Timewarp ?…

Necromancer’s DPS increase by 20% after the boss goes under 50% health… and i saved up Lich Form and Timewarp to skyrocket my DPS towards the end…

I am speechless… i can’t believe the lengths at which you people go just to invent bullkitten about my video…

HAHAHAHAHA… OH MY GOD !… HAHAHAHAHA…
I saw how people are already laughing because they believe it ahahahahaha… SPOJ ACTUALLY BELIVED THAT… HAHAHAHA…

Dude… thank you… just got home, checked the forums… hahahaha… can’t stop laughing…

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

Narenek.9085:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

There are no 3 minutes plus fights in this game even without an icebow. There could be 3 minutes plus fights in the raids but since we don’t know anything and there is no raid “meta” it is all kinda pointless.

If you seriously think the fights won’t be 3 min plus then sorry but I don’t know how to convince you otherwise. But look at the world bosses in this game at level 80 and how long those fights last, then look at what raids are in every other game and you will have your likely answer. Raids = challenging fights with multi phases and not over short periods. Seriously if the fights are sub 3 minutes then Anet will not have bought raiding to GW2 but just extended dungeons

Raids have phases. Raids in gw2 will have long phase transitions where you need to split and do stuff. They will not be 3 minutes plus marathons more like a series of 1-2 minute sprints with huge dps burst at the end.

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Nemesis.8593:

Sysakes.3260:

Just in case anyone’s interested, this is the total damage done by nemesis in 30 seconds : http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#1 which means his DPS was http://imgur.com/sYg0Xwi,bG9OS74#0, not 14.7k .

Oh my god… seriously… OH MY GOD… i have no absolutely no words to describe this…

Are you seriously going to put the calculator on TOP of the boss’s HP so we won’t notice he is actually at half HP… in the first fight (as you can see by the party members on the left), which was the weakest one because i had weakness on as i was doing my highest burst, and i posted it on purpose just to bait people in… since i knew that’s what people were expecting… and after the screen goes black… i proved your expectations wrong…

You’re going to calculate my DPS for half a fight… before i even go in Lich Form under Timewarp ?…

Necromancer’s DPS increase by 20% after the boss goes under 50% health… and i saved up Lich Form and Timewarp to skyrocket my DPS towards the end…

I am speechless… i can’t believe the lengths at which you people go just to invent bullkitten about my video…

HAHAHAHAHA… OH MY GOD !… HAHAHAHAHA…
I saw how people are already laughing because they believe it ahahahahaha… SPOJ ACTUALLY BELIVED THAT… HAHAHAHA…

Dude… thank you… just got home, checked the forums… hahahaha… can’t stop laughing…

Oh, I was just returning the favor since your video gave me quite a laugh as well.

The boss was indeed at half hp, I’ve never said he was dead. And I calculated your DPS before You used Lich Form EXACTLY to prove that without an elite on a 180s cd Your DPS is much much, worse than You claim. You can’t exactly use it on every boss in Fractals, SE or any other dungeon can You ?
Edit: Even with the 20% damage boost from close to death It would still be around 10k.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Well he compared it to the dps that happened over the entire fight. Also “controlled circumstances” how feasable is this scenario to occur and how much is the dps loss of each class in case it isn’t? I’m not saying it isn’t a valuable number but a lot of (bad) players use these (unrealistic) numbers to defend/choose their build.

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Does it matter if you need four or less ice bows to melt a boss if the icebows come at a 60 second cooldown or a 180 second cooldown?

Sysakes.3260:

Oh, I was just returning the favor since your video gave me quite a laugh as well.

The boss was indeed at half hp, I’ve never said he was dead. And I calculated your DPS before You used Lich Form EXACTLY to prove that without an elite on a 180s cd Your DPS is much much, worse than You claim. You can’t exactly use it on every boss in Fractals, SE or any other dungeon can You ?
Edit: Even with the 20% damage boost from close to death It would still be around 10k.

the boss didn’t take 30 sec to kill from 50% hp or from start. which means you have taken the incorrect clip? lol... Perhaps i don’t understand it but as far as i see you showed 30 sec dps on the worst clips possible made to bait and was for purpose, skip to 6:10...

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Well he compared it to the dps that happened over the entire fight. Also “controlled circumstances” how feasable is this scenario to occur and how much is the dps loss of each class in case it isn’t? I’m not saying it isn’t a valuable number but a lot of (bad) players use these (unrealistic) numbers to defend/choose their build.

With the chosen boss (Bloomhunger) it’s actually very possible. A good guardian and positioning yourself correctly you don’t even have to dodge for like 44s, longer if you have additional reflects.

Normally in a random group though, yeah not realistically achievable. But, in an organized group where you can either burst it down before it attacks, burst it down while it’s deep frozen, or like we see in Lupi speed kills now, while they’re slowed in a single animation.

Either way I like to term that max dps number as Potential DPS or Theoretical DPS, as it’s not something you actually see happen very often. But then you do get people like Quin Marino(think that’s the name) that can get through a Lupi phase 1 in 11s doing 30kdps >.<

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Does it matter if you need four or less ice bows to melt a boss if the icebows come at a 60 second cooldown or a 180 second cooldown?

The point is you can’t have a handful of icebows every boss. That is a meaningful change. You have people running full dungeons in close to 180s already

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Well he compared it to the dps that happened over the entire fight. Also “controlled circumstances” how feasable is this scenario to occur and how much is the dps loss of each class in case it isn’t? I’m not saying it isn’t a valuable number but a lot of (bad) players use these (unrealistic) numbers to defend/choose their build.

The other fight took less than 30 secs, which is around how long most fights take when you properly use meta tactics. That’s the amount of time DnT usually uses for their DPS calculations, AFAIK.

The reason we assume an ideal enviroment when calculating DPS is to eliminate the “player skill” and “random” variables from the equation. Sure, bad players will most likely not do well with meta builds, but that’s not something we particularly care about. What we’re looking for is the optimal efficiency when clearing dungeons. When the player’s skill is sub-optimal, no build will magically make him do good clear times.
In the end, all we can control when making a build is its own effectiveness. That’s why it needs to be efficient, regardless of other factors.

Hope that explains it well.

Batresh.3958, Brazil’s video which nemesis used in his video was also one of his worst , not to mention he was running PS warrior, which sacrifices A LOT of personal DPS. So Your point that he used his worst performance " on purpose " doesn’t really mean anything since nemesis has done the same with Brazil’s warrior.
EDIT: Can someone explain, why nemesis counted the 6,5 seconds of preparation before the fight?

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Bro, this is such a good idea.

I wish they’d make conjure weapons in general a bit more balanced, as they currently only have 1 or 2 useful skills generally…

Jerus.4350:

Either way I like to term that max dps number as Potential DPS or Theoretical DPS, as it’s not something you actually see happen very often. But then you do get people like Quin Marino(think that’s the name) that can get through a Lupi phase 1 in 11s doing 30kdps >.<

Well don’t worry about these best case scenario vids I once saw a vid about a world record mesmer fight against that boss (winged Mordrem Teragriff) with zephyrites masters. The poster daid himself that he had to try endless time to get the perfect scenario and normally mesmer suffer a lot in that fight, in another video for a world record twilight arbor run they practically gamble against Malrona (even called it the rng of malrona or something) so it’s either lots of luck or encounter specific (like lupi).

Axelwarrior.9084:

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Bro, this is such a good idea.

I wish they’d make conjure weapons in general a bit more balanced, as they currently only have 1 or 2 useful skills generally…

I agree, this would be a great way to nerf the icebow without actually reducing it’s damage.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Well he compared it to the dps that happened over the entire fight. Also “controlled circumstances” how feasable is this scenario to occur and how much is the dps loss of each class in case it isn’t? I’m not saying it isn’t a valuable number but a lot of (bad) players use these (unrealistic) numbers to defend/choose their build.

The other fight took less than 30 secs, which is around how long most fights take when you properly use meta tactics. That’s the amount of time DnT usually uses for their DPS calculations, AFAIK.

The reason we assume an ideal enviroment when calculating DPS is to eliminate the “player skill” and “random” variables from the equation. Sure, bad players will most likely not do well with meta builds, but that’s not something we particularly care about. What we’re looking for is the optimal efficiency when clearing dungeons. When the player’s skill is sub-optimal, no build will magically make him do good clear times.
In the end, all we can control when making a build is its own effectiveness. That’s why it needs to be efficient, regardless of other factors.

Hope that explains it well.

Oh, like I said I have nothing against people using these numbers smartly or the numbers themsleves. Also I understand the use of them. The problem is that people use these numbers to justfy their behavior while they don’t even apply for these numbers.

For instance I’m not a great player I can’t run a phalanx warrior in fractal lvl 50 without swapping signet of rage for endure pain, run rifle instead of axe mace and even then I get downstate/ dead. I can never proclaim DnT numbers or whoever calculated them as my own and use them to kick necromancers, the sad thing is that based on these numbers players/classes are kicked/excluded from the game. Even worse most players don’t even know the numbers, they just hear DnT say “necro is bad” (they might even folow with in perfect PvE and it wouldn’t matter) and then kick every necro they see.

I do not judge the DnT’ers for using these numbers, I judge the “scrubs” (for a lack of better word) for using these numbers wrongly.

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Does it matter if you need four or less ice bows to melt a boss if the icebows come at a 60 second cooldown or a 180 second cooldown?

The point is you can’t have a handful of icebows every boss. That is a meaningful change. You have people running full dungeons in close to 180s already

So it will still invalidate a (smaller) group of bosses.

Batresh.3958:

Sysakes.3260:

Oh, I was just returning the favor since your video gave me quite a laugh as well.

The boss was indeed at half hp, I’ve never said he was dead. And I calculated your DPS before You used Lich Form EXACTLY to prove that without an elite on a 180s cd Your DPS is much much, worse than You claim. You can’t exactly use it on every boss in Fractals, SE or any other dungeon can You ?
Edit: Even with the 20% damage boost from close to death It would still be around 10k.

the boss didn’t take 30 sec to kill from 50% hp or from start. which means you have taken the incorrect clip? lol… Perhaps i don’t understand it but as far as i see you showed 30 sec dps on the worst clips possible made to bait and was for purpose, skip to 6:10…

According to nemesis’s calculation from 6:10 his dps was 7477.6, which is lower than the one from the previous clip, so if anything I was being too generous. And in case you meant the one from 7:17 then yes, it does show the maximum DPS of his build ( and not only his build since he was also under the effect of Timewarp, Banners etc. )WITH an elite on a 180s cooldown meaning the average DPS is still. much. lower,especially in a solo scenario. Meanwhile a warrior can mantain his 12k or whatever nemesis said the warrior’s DPS was in pretty much every fight.
EDIT: You’re complaining about my calculations being a bait after watching nemesis’s video, really ?

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Well he compared it to the dps that happened over the entire fight. Also “controlled circumstances” how feasable is this scenario to occur and how much is the dps loss of each class in case it isn’t? I’m not saying it isn’t a valuable number but a lot of (bad) players use these (unrealistic) numbers to defend/choose their build.

The other fight took less than 30 secs, which is around how long most fights take when you properly use meta tactics. That’s the amount of time DnT usually uses for their DPS calculations, AFAIK.

The reason we assume an ideal enviroment when calculating DPS is to eliminate the “player skill” and “random” variables from the equation. Sure, bad players will most likely not do well with meta builds, but that’s not something we particularly care about. What we’re looking for is the optimal efficiency when clearing dungeons. When the player’s skill is sub-optimal, no build will magically make him do good clear times.
In the end, all we can control when making a build is its own effectiveness. That’s why it needs to be efficient, regardless of other factors.

Hope that explains it well.

Oh, like I said I have nothing against people using these numbers smartly or the numbers themsleves. Also I understand the use of them. The problem is that people use these numbers to justfy their behavior while they don’t even apply for these numbers.

For instance I’m not a great player I can’t run a phalanx warrior in fractal lvl 50 without swapping signet of rage for endure pain, run rifle instead of axe mace and even then I get downstate/ dead. I can never proclaim DnT numbers or whoever calculated them as my own kittene them to kick necromancers, the said thing that based on these numbers players/classes are kicked/excluded from the game. Even worse most players don’t even know the numbers, they just hear DnT say “necro is bad” (they might even folow with in perfect PvE) and then kick every necro they see.

I do not judge the DnT’ers for using these numbers, I judge the “scrubs” (for a lack of better word) for using these numbers wrongly.

If I understand correctly, you only have beef against half-baked elitists. The kind that makes LFGs with AP requirements and claims all Rangers and Necromancers are scrubs.
If so, then why are you siding with Nemesis, who specifically attacks the people forming the meta and making all these DPS calculations?

Sysakes

You don’t even seem to properly understand my responses
also why don’t you then calculate 7:17 then? why...? What’s the point of calculating the "worst scenario" part again..-No I’m not even going to, you have calculated the obsolete DPS comparison and this discussing is so useless it’s mindless

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Tim.6450:

Axelwarrior.9084:

I knew you were bad at math, but I didn’t know you were bad at reading too.
He clearly said that what he posted was your DPS in 30 seconds.

Well maybe I should calculate the dps of a phalanx warrior/staff ele when he is dead for 30 seconds. The number will be quite enlightening. Circumstance do matter for dps calculations.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

I mean they according to nem the first poster of the numbers took a (bad) case scenario (above 50% health which is a 20% dps loss, with weakness at the wrongtime, …) and impies it as “the dps of the build” that’s not a good reference, like I said the dps of a staff ele in a worst case scenario is 0, is it fair to refer it as “the dps” of the staff ele?

No, he said his DPS over 30 seconds was 8.2k, not “the DPS of the build” in general. Hence what I pointed out to Nemesis in my first post.

That, by the way, is why we calculate DPS in an ideal and controlled enviroment, to find a profession’s “true” DPS.

Well he compared it to the dps that happened over the entire fight. Also “controlled circumstances” how feasable is this scenario to occur and how much is the dps loss of each class in case it isn’t? I’m not saying it isn’t a valuable number but a lot of (bad) players use these (unrealistic) numbers to defend/choose their build.

The other fight took less than 30 secs, which is around how long most fights take when you properly use meta tactics. That’s the amount of time DnT usually uses for their DPS calculations, AFAIK.

The reason we assume an ideal enviroment when calculating DPS is to eliminate the “player skill” and “random” variables from the equation. Sure, bad players will most likely not do well with meta builds, but that’s not something we particularly care about. What we’re looking for is the optimal efficiency when clearing dungeons. When the player’s skill is sub-optimal, no build will magically make him do good clear times.
In the end, all we can control when making a build is its own effectiveness. That’s why it needs to be efficient, regardless of other factors.

Hope that explains it well.

Oh, like I said I have nothing against people using these numbers smartly or the numbers themsleves. Also I understand the use of them. The problem is that people use these numbers to justfy their behavior while they don’t even apply for these numbers.

For instance I’m not a great player I can’t run a phalanx warrior in fractal lvl 50 without swapping signet of rage for endure pain, run rifle instead of axe mace and even then I get downstate/ dead. I can never proclaim DnT numbers or whoever calculated them as my own kittene them to kick necromancers, the said thing that based on these numbers players/classes are kicked/excluded from the game. Even worse most players don’t even know the numbers, they just hear DnT say “necro is bad” (they might even folow with in perfect PvE) and then kick every necro they see.

I do not judge the DnT’ers for using these numbers, I judge the “scrubs” (for a lack of better word) for using these numbers wrongly.

If I understand correctly, you only have beef against half-baked elitists. The kind that makes LFGs with AP requirements and claims all Rangers and Necromancers are scrubs.
If so, then why are you siding with Nemesis, who specifically attacks the people forming the meta and making all these DPS calculations?

Well I don’t side with nemesis (elitist may do all they want for all I care as long as they don’t affect non-elitists who are not hindering them and you won’t hear me complaining),I’m not againt him either. I just post these because the half-baked elitists love to quote the best players and people tend to believe them because they are the words of the elite. I just place some context with these numbers to stop some people from people to get wrong ideas.

Batresh,

I don’t have to since nemesis has already done that. My point is that, in a solo setting, or without Lich Form, which is an elite on a 3 minute cooldown and can’t really be used on every boss, his average DPS would be much lower than the one in that fight. For example look at Brazil’s Vampire Necromancer guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBuwFe2Aaxk at around the 23 minute mark, there’s a reason he doesn’t use lich form to calculate the AVERAGE DPS of his necromancer and is doing it solo, without buffs from the rest of the team.

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Does it matter if you need four or less ice bows to melt a boss if the icebows come at a 60 second cooldown or a 180 second cooldown?

The point is you can’t have a handful of icebows every boss. That is a meaningful change. You have people running full dungeons in close to 180s already

So it will still invalidate a (smaller) group of bosses.

Yup, but couldn’t you say the same thing about Reflects or really just party wide hard burst damage in general?

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Does it matter if you need four or less ice bows to melt a boss if the icebows come at a 60 second cooldown or a 180 second cooldown?

The point is you can’t have a handful of icebows every boss. That is a meaningful change. You have people running full dungeons in close to 180s already

So it will still invalidate a (smaller) group of bosses.

Yup, but couldn’t you say the same thing about Reflects or really just party wide hard burst damage in general?

And you think I aggree with these skills/strategies invalidating bosses as well?

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

Tim.6450:

Jerus.4350:

All this talk about Elites got me thinking… I know this isn’t the Ele forum but what if they just swapped FGS and Ice Bow, FGS now is quite a weak elite, it’s nice for mobility and has a few DPS things to drop, but overall is pretty “meh” while Ice Bow is powerful. Ice Bow on a few minutes reuse makes sense with it’s potential power and would certainly quench the over-reliance on it quite a bit. Just a thought.

Does it matter if you need four or less ice bows to melt a boss if the icebows come at a 60 second cooldown or a 180 second cooldown?

The point is you can’t have a handful of icebows every boss. That is a meaningful change. You have people running full dungeons in close to 180s already

So it will still invalidate a (smaller) group of bosses.

Yup, but couldn’t you say the same thing about Reflects or really just party wide hard burst damage in general?

And you think I aggree with these skills/strategies invalidating bosses as well?

Naw, but just saying that to point out that it’s not as if Ice Bow alone does this. The content as a whole could be far better designed to prevent this type of thing. Though if you gave things enough DPS to make it last through well organized teams can you imagine what more defensive builds would be dealing with? eek.