Guild Wars 2

I was trying to stay positive about the new healing skill, at first glance it looked to open up some unique new builds… but then…

…1s ICD on passive AND active
…1.5s Cast time
…35s coo down
…not even your minions could proc its active! (this was my last hope)

So here we are, just hoping for a hotfix once the Necro community complains enough. Well that’s not going to happen so im thinking lets work together and make lemonade out of lemons!

Im thinking of building around the passive effect, the active is total rubbish for you (its okay for a group) you will only have an opportunity to proc 4 of the active ticks 4! So lets take a look at the passive effect together and brainstorm some situations where it can be useful.

Im thinking of a DS bunker build focusing on keeping up retaliation and confusion (perplexity, and im an asura) I would use the SoV for minor mitigation and extra dps. The ICD is stupid here but w/e.

What are your thoughts?

Where would you be getting extra DPS from if you don’t plan on using the active? The damage portion of the passive got removed.

Passive steals health on hit…

tattoohead.3217:

Passive steals health on hit…

Sadly no, it doesn’t. That used to be the case (for the datamined version), but that got removed. It only heals when you are hit, not steal health.

tattoohead.3217:

Passive steals health on hit…

See you got fooled like me into thinking the passive effect is still a siphon.

It’s not. It is a passive heal on hit. There is no siphon component at all. It is no longer mitigation + retaliation, just flat mitigation with no scaling whatsoever based on incoming damage.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

tattoohead.3217:

Passive steals health on hit…

Sadly no, it doesn’t. That used to be the case (for the datamined version), but that got removed. It only heals when you are hit, not steal health.

WHAT!?!?! ok wow lets not stay positive this skill is so 100% useless in every situation possible… tyvm Anet I would rather you just left us out of the new skill train.

I’m positive that this skill will suck unless changed.

I’d love to be positive about this skill, but it really is that bad now. I might consider it as a utility, but not my Heal.

Consume conditions for the win.

Rigel.3092:

Consume conditions for the win.

None of the heals can even replace CC right now.. Strange how Anet doesn’t see it.
New sigil heal is just… kitten

I wouldn’t say Blood Fiend or Well of Blood can’t replace Consume Conditions. They are more niche in their use, but in said use, they do greatly exceed Consume Conditions.

Well OFC CC is still king and i like the heal so im not ragequitting my necro or anything (opposite in fact im coming back to my necro after playing WAR and Engi lol) I was just hoping for a new toy… sad day.

Maybe. Anet wants to see it in action before coming to a conclusion.

Mia Crazymike.1780:

Maybe. Anet wants to see it in action before coming to a conclusion.

Only problem is, I don’t think it will be seen in action…

Does this signet passive still siphon health from your opponent? I read somewhere that it only heals you when attacked which would kill this for me even more.

Edit: Nvm got a chance to read some of the posts, this signet is about dead for me.

I was in favor of just removing lifesteal from the game because anet can’t balance it, so why bother

…

….

But then I saw the new Guardian heal and I’m angry again.

Consume conditions is one of the best heals in the game,why would you use anything but it?

Banjal.7328:

Consume conditions is one of the best heals in the game,why would you use anything but it?

Because some of us like diversity, and the class well enough to want to try and play it another way. Just because I can face-roll 90% of people in a 30/20/0/0/20 build, doesn’t mean I always want to run that build.

Having viable options, even at the cost of the favored builds would be fine for me. However we seem to continue to see reductions to our strong build, without any notable buffs to our weaker builds.

Banjal.7328:

Consume conditions is one of the best heals in the game,why would you use anything but it?

Keep saying that CC is one of the best heals in the game and they will likely nerf it

How can you be positive about such a pathetic heal.

Rennoko.5731:

Banjal.7328:

Consume conditions is one of the best heals in the game,why would you use anything but it?

Because some of us like diversity, and the class well enough to want to try and play it another way. Just because I can face-roll 90% of people in a 30/20/0/0/20 build, doesn’t mean I always want to run that build.

Having viable options, even at the cost of the favored builds would be fine for me. However we seem to continue to see reductions to our strong build, without any notable buffs to our weaker builds.

Trust me,im a celestial hybrid Necro and never use FoTM builds.But in a Condi meta game,its just not smart to run anything but CC.

I’ve been playing ranger in sPvP..

Healing spring, leap, weapon swap, blast + leap. About 2.5x the amount of healing as consume conditions and much of it party wide. Oh, and its a condition clear. Oh, and I’m doing big damage the whole time. Oh, and if it matters, my teammates can bast too.

Consume conditions is overrated as a big heal. Mending, which doesn’t heal for removed conditions, but has a shorter cooldown and the same base heal as CC, is the red headed stepchild of Warrior Heals.

What happens if you go Full Vampire?

Siphoning can be made 20% better with Bloodthirst.
Hits can siphon with Vampiric.
Getting hit can siphon with Signet of Vampire.
Crits can siphon with Vampiric Precision.
Minions/Wells can siphon.
Signet of the Locust has an AoE siphon.
Dagger skill Life-Siphon siphons, and can be traited for shorter cooldowns and gain toughness while channeling the siphon.
Superior Sigil of Blood siphons.
Superior Sigil of Leeching siphons.
Superior Rune of Vampirism siphons 2×.

What happens if you put a bunch of these together with some healing power? Siphoning is both offensive and defensive, and they did recently improve the scaling on both parts right? I will probably play around with a vampire build and see what happens. (My Necromancer is a Norn, so he already has Wolf form which has a pretty decent life steal on a short cooldown)

nekretaal.6485:

I’ve been playing ranger in sPvP..

Healing spring, leap, weapon swap, blast + leap. About 2.5x the amount of healing as consume conditions and much of it party wide. Oh, and its a condition clear. Oh, and I’m doing big damage the whole time. Oh, and if it matters, my teammates can bast too.

Consume conditions is overrated as a big heal. Mending, which doesn’t heal for removed conditions, but has a shorter cooldown and the same base heal as CC, is the red headed stepchild of Warrior Heals.

While I think any heal with a water field is superior, you are comparing multiple skills to one skill.

misterdevious.6482:

What happens if you go Full Vampire?

Siphoning can be made 20% better with Bloodthirst.
Hits can siphon with Vampiric.
Getting hit can siphon with Signet of Vampire.
Crits can siphon with Vampiric Precision.
Minions/Wells can siphon.
Signet of the Locust has an AoE siphon.
Dagger skill Life-Siphon siphons, and can be traited for shorter cooldowns and gain toughness while channeling the siphon.
Superior Sigil of Blood siphons.
Superior Sigil of Leeching siphons.
Superior Rune of Vampirism siphons 2×.

What happens if you put a bunch of these together with some healing power? Siphoning is both offensive and defensive, and they did recently improve the scaling on both parts right? I will probably play around with a vampire build and see what happens.

Already done did.

There’s a couple of problems:

1. Heal Power is stupid pointless with a Siphon build. Max it out and you get six (6) more HP back per siphon. Not worth the immense loss of DPS.

2. The Signet does not siphon making it a worthless addition to any Siphon build when either Blood Fiend or Well of Blood outclass its damage and siphon capacities.

So yeah—the build already exists (and several variations of it), and it will not be improved by the addition of this Signet. Original, data-mined version? Definitely. To-be-released version? Lolwut.

misterdevious.6482:

What happens if you go Full Vampire?

Siphoning can be made 20% better with Bloodthirst.
Hits can siphon with Vampiric.
Getting hit can siphon with Signet of Vampire.
Crits can siphon with Vampiric Precision.
Minions/Wells can siphon.
Signet of the Locust has an AoE siphon.
Dagger skill Life-Siphon siphons, and can be traited for shorter cooldowns and gain toughness while channeling the siphon.
Superior Sigil of Blood siphons.
Superior Sigil of Leeching siphons.
Superior Rune of Vampirism siphons 2×.

What happens if you put a bunch of these together with some healing power? Siphoning is both offensive and defensive, and they did recently improve the scaling on both parts right? I will probably play around with a vampire build and see what happens. (My Necromancer is a Norn, so he already has Wolf form which has a pretty decent life steal on a short cooldown)

Fixed one part of it. The sad part is that even with all the siphoning stuff a necro gets, the majority of the siphoning still comes from non-necro sources (sigil, runes, food).

Well then.

Maybe I won’t be in a rush to try it out. I do like my current build which is more death shroud focused and today it is receiving 0 nerfs and 2 of my traits are having their effectiveness doubled.

Thats the sad part, when one stupid single buff, the food outheals your own classmechanic with trait investments ….

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

misterdevious.6482:

What happens if you go Full Vampire?

Siphoning can be made 20% better with Bloodthirst.
Hits can siphon with Vampiric.
Getting hit can siphon with Signet of Vampire.
Crits can siphon with Vampiric Precision.
Minions/Wells can siphon.
Signet of the Locust has an AoE siphon.
Dagger skill Life-Siphon siphons, and can be traited for shorter cooldowns and gain toughness while channeling the siphon.
Superior Sigil of Blood siphons.
Superior Sigil of Leeching siphons.
Superior Rune of Vampirism siphons 2×.

What happens if you put a bunch of these together with some healing power? Siphoning is both offensive and defensive, and they did recently improve the scaling on both parts right? I will probably play around with a vampire build and see what happens. (My Necromancer is a Norn, so he already has Wolf form which has a pretty decent life steal on a short cooldown)

Fixed one part of it. The sad part is that even with all the siphoning stuff a necro gets, the majority of the siphoning still comes from non-necro sources (sigil, runes, food).

This pretty much explains why I loosely consider myself a siphoning necromancer since the siphoning is terribly weak. Most of my survivability comes from spectral skills with the siphoning used more as means to by time till CC is off cd.

My only source of siphoning is traited life siphon, vampiric, and my sigil of blood, which only works out well because of dark armor and spectral walk/armor which lets me come out on top in a damage exchange. This signet would have changed everything since I dish out most of my damage while tanking theirs.

So is it me or does the new warrior skill function like Spectral armor while in DS before they nerfed it.

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/23544-defiant-stance

Just a little curious, has any of the other professions had their heal skill drastically changed in a similar manor, or is the necro the only one always getting butchered before going live? First DS, now this heal.

Only the necro skill got butchered. The Ele one was nerfed from being 1,200 range to point-blank and gained a casting time. All of the others were buffed.

The Warrior heal actually got its cast time reduced by 75% (1 second to 1/4 second).

Mia Crazymike.1780:

Maybe. Anet wants to see it in action before coming to a conclusion.

They did see it in action, last Friday. They were every bit as unimpressed by it as we were, and they were the ones who made the skill. In fact, I was almost impressed by how little of a kitten they gave when they were previewing it. We got the least amount of time of any preview. Warriors got a flipping duel to show off their skill, all we got was to watch Karl get his butt kicked by a golem, fail once to get any worthwhile healing, and then once get a max heal (the same as the base heal for our real heals).

And while they were being unimpressed by our skill? They literally barely talked about it. They mentioned every way it can be countered, they mentioned the point of adding all the support skills (aka, wasting time because they had nothing else to say), pointing out that the thing puts a giant “cool” red mark over the persons head… then moved on to ranger.

It was sad how unimpressed they were by seeing it in action, why would they want thousands of people to have that same experience?

Bhawb.7408:

Warriors got a flipping duel to show off their skill, all we got was to watch Karl get his butt kicked by a golem […]

This is such a fantastic description! It lightens my mood.

They took the WORST heal and made it even WORSE….
They clearly dont give a crap about the skill. Likely the class as well.

Bhawb.7408:

Mia Crazymike.1780:

Maybe. Anet wants to see it in action before coming to a conclusion.

They did see it in action, last Friday. They were every bit as unimpressed by it as we were, and they were the ones who made the skill. In fact, I was almost impressed by how little of a kitten they gave when they were previewing it. We got the least amount of time of any preview. Warriors got a flipping duel to show off their skill, all we got was to watch Karl get his butt kicked by a golem, fail once to get any worthwhile healing, and then once get a max heal (the same as the base heal for our real heals).

And while they were being unimpressed by our skill? They literally barely talked about it. They mentioned every way it can be countered, they mentioned the point of adding all the support skills (aka, wasting time because they had nothing else to say), pointing out that the thing puts a giant “cool” red mark over the persons head… then moved on to ranger.

It was sad how unimpressed they were by seeing it in action, why would they want thousands of people to have that same experience?

This is the issue for me. It is not just the skill issues themselves, it is that it gives us a brief insight into how they regard the necro and the necro community….again contempt.

I know Bhawb has indicated before that they ARE aware of our major issues and it will be a LONG time before the underlying issues are addressed, BUT, for goodness sake why keep perpetuating the pain by leading us further into irrelevancy with each successive change.

PVE wise we are considered basically irrelevant except in niche situations. It is obvious they are not worried about losing necro population either to other classes or even other games because they wouldn’t keep doing what they are doing.

The worst insult you can give is to ignore someone and not acknowledge their obvious plight and perpetuate it . This ANet deals in spades to necros. No matter how good this game is (potentially), the line has been crossed for me.

I said from the start, it wont be another game that destroys this game – It will be Anet, they have shown time and time again they are VERY clueless. Diabolically clueless. No idea what they are doing with the game they created.

No idea what the word Balance is and having “favored” classes shown in how some classes are treat compared to others. WHEN this game does die, it wont be because some amazing new game – it will be as everyone will have had enough of Anet and how clueless they are.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The Warrior heal actually got its cast time reduced by 75% (1 second to 1/4 second).

This, if anything, just shows that ArenaNet is utterly incapable of balance. It was already an extremely potent heal and they actually went and buffed it while leaving the necromancer heal dead in the water.

Heh this turned into a QQ post… and im ok with that. You listening Anet?

tattoohead.3217:

Heh this turned into a QQ post… and im ok with that. You listening Anet?

No…. no they aren’t

tattoohead.3217:

Heh this turned into a QQ post… and im ok with that. You listening Anet?

They are listening and they are laughing. It is clear with the so called piece of crap heal we got. Many didnt want it the way it was, so they saidkittenand nerfed it into being useless and released it.

Pre-release nerfs. This is kinda funny if you think about it.

“Here’s a $100 bill.”
“Gee, thanks!” Reaches for the bill
Pulls back hand “Wait, that’s too much. Here you go.”
Hands over a nickle

It’s just so…mind boggling.

Phenn.5167:

Pre-release nerfs. This is kinda funny if you think about it.

“Here’s a $100 bill.”
“Gee, thanks!” Reaches for the bill
Pulls back hand “Wait, that’s too much. Here you go.”
Hands over a nickle

It’s just so…mind boggling.

My mind is blown because even un-nerfed the skill was sketchy take away the ICD and allow the passive to steal health instead of just “heal” shoot take away the 5s that the mark is active and just let it be a flat 25 stacks…. and its still a sub par skill. Go ahead and double the amount that this skill scails with healing power and health and its STILL sub par, getting close to a decent skill but not there yet.

and they pre release nerf it on NECRO of all classes… because… why!?

Haha it’s sooo funny you can just laugh about it
I just watched the dev stream on youtube again. Really with every class they showed the new healing skill there were things like “wow, that are high (healing) ticks” or “we got just fully healed”. They drew the attention to the life bar to show just how much they got healed.

Then comes the Necro. I felt like they were trapped in the doge meme… “Wow.. so red… much scary… wow”… for real…
They didn’t even DARE to look at the health bar yet even talk about it, because they feared people would notice they just got healed for a lousy ~2000hp (two mesmer heal ticks).

No dudes, case closed… nothing to add anymore…

I liked how they ended the necro part in the live stream after like 1,5 minutes. “Are we good on that one?” “Yes, I think were good on that one.”

tattoohead.3217:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

tattoohead.3217:

Passive steals health on hit…

Sadly no, it doesn’t. That used to be the case (for the datamined version), but that got removed. It only heals when you are hit, not steal health.

WHAT!?!?! ok wow lets not stay positive this skill is so 100% useless in every situation possible… tyvm Anet I would rather you just left us out of the new skill train.

LMAO. an unexpected turn of events. hod-dam

Yeah, when this skill gave a passive syphon hand had some actual synergy with other Necro traits there was hope, but now its just rubbish.

The internal cooldown on the passive is also just plain awful.

Nike.2631:

Yeah, when this skill gave a passive syphon hand had some actual synergy with other Necro traits there was hope, but now its just rubbish.

The internal cooldown on the passive is also just plain awful.

It’s just a poor version of the Warrior healing signet… and outside of pve the active also is useless (especially 1v1).

Hi guys.
I am a Thief main and would like to share my thoughts about your utterly messed up sad and poorly designed heal (see what I did there?)

I think a siphon effect on each hit (wat datamined version showed) would have been extremely OP combining it with the blood magic and all. Fine, they removed the Siphon effect but the ICD killed it outright. I would have been fine if it didn’t have an ICD.
For the activated version….eh….maybe if you get your team organised and use it at a rare critical decisive moment…

So as I said in my special condolences thread, I’m sorry for your loss :P

P.S. I really wanted to play a blood magic necromancer. They were my favorite caster in Guild Wars 1. Sadly Blood Magic necros aren’t really…well..they aren’t really anything at all xD
I think they fired all of the people who worked on GW1 and recruited newly graduated people for GW2. Probably cheaper on the income scale and this is their first gig.

Divine eXecution.3709:

Nike.2631:

Yeah, when this skill gave a passive syphon hand had some actual synergy with other Necro traits there was hope, but now its just rubbish.

The internal cooldown on the passive is also just plain awful.

It’s just a poor version of the Warrior healing signet… and outside of pve the active also is useless (especially 1v1).

Warrior healing sig = 700HPS all the time
Necromancer SoV = 300HPS while being attacked lol

The only reason warrior healing sig is so strong is because you can dodge/kite for a while and regain some substantial health. We have to be getting beat on for our 55% less effective healing sig

PS i realize this whole post is ironic but the more i learn about this skill the more peeved i get so… sorry.