So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul
New Skill Classification: Desecrations
Naming them desecrations just makes me think of wells. Just call them aura’s. If we were to get aura’s I would want them to have the same duration as their cooldown. Just like ele conjured weapons. Or maybe slightly less duration than cooldown.
So lasts 40 seconds and has a cooldown of 45. The idea of aura’s has already been mentioned by me and a few others in other threads. You could get group damage boosts, group life steal, group condi’s on crit and so on.
Your suggestion for a descration in the other thread is another selfish utility. We need more group stuff to become viable. Also the example you gave is op. 20k damage to 5 mobs in 10 seconds (so 100k damage) is very low dps. All classes can achieve about 11k dps on single targets, thats about 33k dps assuming cleave(so 330k damage in 10 seconds for one player), which amounts to about 1650k damage in 10 seconds. The healing would be overkill. If you only count single target damage it would still be 550k damage in 10 seconds, which results in 55k healing lol.
(edited by spoj.9672)
Awesome ideas from both of you I’d love to see more selfless Necro mechanics. Someone made a thread a few months ago that mentioned turning Necromancer into kind of the antithesis to the Guardian, which is an interesting idea and one that, if you look hard enough, you can find in game (with all debuffers), such as applying vulnerability instead of group might, and weakness instead of protection.
I love playing support builds and Necro has a ton of potential in that area if fundamental gameplay changes were made to both support roles and Necromancer trait lines (specifically blood).
It would be interesting if these Auras were applied based on trait lines, maybe utilizing the 25 point minor slot in each tree and perhaps granting an ever-present passive ability.
I wouldn’t call them Auras or Desecrations. The first is something others have, and we’re special dangit! And the second sounds too similar to Corruption. Just call them Orders, as that is what they were (in effect) back in GW1.
I wouldn’t call them Auras or Desecrations. The first is something others have, and we’re special dangit! And the second sounds too similar to Corruption. Just call them Orders, as that is what they were (in effect) back in GW1.
Orders/auras, same thing ;D
Necro already have a persistent effect aka Death Shroud, so adding another one would not be widely accepted. If anything such as this should be added, I believe that it should be part of the Death Shroud mechanic either in traits or in the alternative skill bar.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Orders/auras, same thing ;D
Also, Desecrations would be similar to auras and in a way to our spectral armor/walk, except it would have different effect types. I see no reason that would make them not usable.
Shh, the lore people might come after you
Why desecrations or auras? Why not spectral?
Why desecrations or auras? Why not spectral?
Adding more skills into the spectral line forces them into a certain kind of role, and basically voids any chance of them getting their own traits. Spectrals are, among other things, about LF gain, while Desecrations wouldn’t be.
Naming them desecrations just makes me think of wells. Just call them aura’s. If we were to get aura’s I would want them to have the same duration as their cooldown. Just like ele conjured weapons. Or maybe slightly less duration than cooldown.
Auras is pretty generic. Desecrations has the connotation of creating a negative effect in an area or benefiting the necro in some way at the expense of his/her enemies. If you want to call it Auras or Orders, though, that’s fine, too.
So lasts 40 seconds and has a cooldown of 45. The idea of aura’s has already been mentioned by me and a few others in other threads. You could get group damage boosts, group life steal, group condi’s on crit and so on.
I, too, have mentioned auras thoughout several of my previous posts. This is an attempt to group them under one skill type classification to open the possibility of traits that can enhance them en masse. Again, if you want to call them auras and I want to call them desecrations, that’s less important to me than the concept of the new skill classification as a whole with regards to this thread.
Your suggestion for a descration in the other thread is another selfish utility. We need more group stuff to become viable.
That’s one opinion. Necro is, thematically, a selfish profession. Selfish, in this context, is not a bad word. I would actually say we are less “selfish” and more “self-reliant”. This doesn’t mean we don’t benefit the party. We just do it in a more covert, indirect fashion.
Having more skills that help us sustain means we stay in the fight longer. That means there’s more opportunities to spread debilitating conditions on opponents or act as an aggro magnet while the rest of the party cleans up. We do bring “more group stuff” already; it’s just more subtle and comes from how the class is played rather than from a single skill on one’s bar.
That said, I’m not against the idea of necro-specific group buffs. Just because I offered one example of a new skill in another thread that directly benefits the necromancer and not the party doesn’t mean there isn’t room for introducing group-buffing auras/desecrations/orders. However, since this thread isn’t about suggesting a specific skill but rather a skill classification, that’s not really relevant.
Also the example you gave is op. 20k damage to 5 mobs in 10 seconds (so 100k damage) is very low dps. All classes can achieve about 11k dps on single targets, thats about 33k dps assuming cleave(so 330k damage in 10 seconds for one player), which amounts to about 1650k damage in 10 seconds. The healing would be overkill. If you only count single target damage it would still be 550k damage in 10 seconds, which results in 55k healing lol.
Theory crafting is nice…in theory. On paper maybe 11k DPS is possible; in practice it doesn’t work that way. Throw in blink, block, daze, disengaging, dodge, evade, invulnerability, knockback, knockdown, launch, misses, obstructions, out-of-range, positioning, push, pull, skill cool downs, stun, teleports, and weakness and nobody is doing 330k damage in 10 seconds unless it’s to innocent bunny rabbits in the forest. If this were true, the meta would be considerably different than it is in reality.
I settled on what is – in practice – a reasonable expectation of damage output given all the factors I listed above. Furthermore, it isn’t a skill description written in stone. The values are open to tweaking; it’s a suggestion, a prototype. If, indeed, the initial numbers I used prove OP, then tune them until they aren’t OP. Even if my original estimates of DPS prove too low, the estimate of 330K damage in 10 seconds is equally too high.
So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul
You know you can make a single skill fall under 2 types (horror mark being both minions and marks for exampled despite some traits not working on it). So you could have Order of the Vampire being a Order and well or siphon, Order of the Undeath being Order and Minion, Order of Apostasy being Order and Corruption, Order of Pain being Order and Spectral.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Specifically speaking a skill is only ever one thing, it can just have effects that are others. For example minions can siphon, Mark of Horror is a mark that has an effect that summons minions, Order of the Vampire would be an order/aura that causes siphons on hit, etc. So every skill has its main type, what it is listed as, and then extra effects, and I don’t see Corruption, Wells, or Spectrals becoming extra effects like minions.
Theory crafting is nice…in theory. On paper maybe 11k DPS is possible; in practice it doesn’t work that way. Throw in blink, block, daze, disengaging, dodge, evade, invulnerability, knockback, knockdown, launch, misses, obstructions, out-of-range, positioning, push, pull, skill cool downs, stun, teleports, and weakness and nobody is doing 330k damage in 10 seconds unless it’s to innocent bunny rabbits in the forest. If this were true, the meta would be considerably different than it is in reality.
I settled on what is – in practice – a reasonable expectation of damage output given all the factors I listed above. Furthermore, it isn’t a skill description written in stone. The values are open to tweaking; it’s a suggestion, a prototype. If, indeed, the initial numbers I used prove OP, then tune them until they aren’t OP. Even if my original estimates of DPS prove too low, the estimate of 330K damage in 10 seconds is equally too high.
A fully buffed dps build produces that number. Your suggested value for damage implies you do 2k dps which is less than what any class achieves naked. My point was, with a skilled dps group, the healing is gonna be ridiculous even if half the team decides to go afk. But obviously you could tweak the maths to be more inline with expected dps so its not op. Id rather the healing was applied to the group aswell. Because the main reason necro’s are the only class that dont have a role in speed clears is because they are purely selfish (no buffs and the debuffs can be done better by other classes).
Theory crafting is nice…in theory. On paper maybe 11k DPS is possible; in practice it doesn’t work that way. Throw in blink, block, daze, disengaging, dodge, evade, invulnerability, knockback, knockdown, launch, misses, obstructions, out-of-range, positioning, push, pull, skill cool downs, stun, teleports, and weakness and nobody is doing 330k damage in 10 seconds unless it’s to innocent bunny rabbits in the forest. If this were true, the meta would be considerably different than it is in reality.
I settled on what is – in practice – a reasonable expectation of damage output given all the factors I listed above. Furthermore, it isn’t a skill description written in stone. The values are open to tweaking; it’s a suggestion, a prototype. If, indeed, the initial numbers I used prove OP, then tune them until they aren’t OP. Even if my original estimates of DPS prove too low, the estimate of 330K damage in 10 seconds is equally too high.
A fully buffed dps build produces that number. Your suggested value for damage implies you do 2k dps which is less than what any class achieves naked. My point was, with a skilled dps group, the healing is gonna be ridiculous even if half the team decides to go afk. But obviously you could tweak the maths to be more inline with expected dps so its not op. Id rather the healing was applied to the group aswell. Because the main reason necro’s are the only class that dont have a role in speed clears is because they are purely selfish (no buffs and the debuffs can be done better by other classes).
Guys you are mixing dps and steady damage, dps goes between 1k to 5.7k (warrior that got his maxed 40k 100b and instantly swapped to axe or full x/d arcane ele doing the triple air burst, who does more really depends on the dungeon/encounter but they ususally end up at same dps). For example lich form has between a 1.4 to 2.1k dps (that is minimum when you spawm 1 vs all boosts/optimized situation).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
dps = damage per second
2.1k dps in lich. You can see thats lower than the actual dps you get in the game without even doing the maths.
Obviously dps fluctuates, but you find the average.
dps = damage per second
2.1k dps in lich. You can see thats lower than the actual dps you get in the game without even doing the maths.
Obviously dps fluctuates, but you find the average.
- a video you should all know, on about the 40 min mark, remember he is in full zerker.
So no that is around the real dps (the one and ten units may change), A full zerker warior or a valkyre arcane ele do the same 5k+ dps, but so far it is impossible to go above 6k dps in a fight (that doesnt mean there cant be a spike where you did 10k or 20 k in a second, but that you cannot do that on a consistant basis).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Thats not true. Dodge only takes 0.75 seconds and that doesnt cut the dps in half unless your dodging very frequently. Which you shouldnt be and dont think you even can dodge that often on any class lol. Anyway you calculate the theoretical max dps the rotation can output. Obviously their are too many variables for it to always be that high but saying it can only be half is wrong.
Im sure i dont need to tell you how innaccurate that method of calculating dps is. The only thing needed to test in game is the after casts and time for a full auto rotation. The rest is done with weapon and skill coefficients and damage formulae to calculate the damage of the full rotation, including cooldowns and then divided to find the average dps over a sustain period. It shifts massively higher when your wells are down but over a sustained period the dps increase is less.
(edited by spoj.9672)
Thats not true. Dodge only takes 0.75 seconds and that doesnt cut the dps in half unless your dodging very frequently. Which you shouldnt be and dont think you even can dodge that often on any class lol. Anyway you calculate the theoretical max dps the rotation can output. Obviously their are too many variables for it to always be that high but saying it can only be half is wrong.
Im sure i dont need to tell you how innaccurate that method of calculating dps is. The only thing needed to test in game is the after casts and time for a full auto rotation. The rest is done with weapon and skill coefficients and damage formulae to calculate the damage of the full rotation, including cooldowns and then divided to find the average dps over a sustain period. It shifts massively higher when your wells are down but over a sustained period the dps increase is less.
OR you actually go in game, get a stopwatch (be it on comp or irl) and time the attacks to then check the combat log, youll never get a steady 6k dps (obviouly with the exception of the example given to kill white rabbits that have like negative 1k armor)
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Thats not true. Dodge only takes 0.75 seconds and that doesnt cut the dps in half unless your dodging very frequently. Which you shouldnt be and dont think you even can dodge that often on any class lol. Anyway you calculate the theoretical max dps the rotation can output. Obviously their are too many variables for it to always be that high but saying it can only be half is wrong.
Im sure i dont need to tell you how innaccurate that method of calculating dps is. The only thing needed to test in game is the after casts and time for a full auto rotation. The rest is done with weapon and skill coefficients and damage formulae to calculate the damage of the full rotation, including cooldowns and then divided to find the average dps over a sustain period. It shifts massively higher when your wells are down but over a sustained period the dps increase is less.
OR you actually go in game, get a stopwatch (be it on comp or irl) and time the attacks to then check the combat log, youll never get a steady 6k dps (obviouly with the exception of the example given to kill white rabbits that have like negative 1k armor)
I just looked at my vet giant kill vid. Its over 6k dps and thats not even fully buffed up….
My definition of dps is total damage divided by the time it takes to complete a full skill rotation and all the cool-downs, or several minutes if you want to include an elite skill or get a more accurate average.
Dps does not typically apply to peak rate of damage, which is more of a burst rate. All professions have skills for rapid damage, some more than others, so spike damage is also an important measure. Arenanet watches both metrics. That is one reason why some skills have longer cool-downs. An example is Putrid Mark bursting off of Chillblains with the CD on PM setting CD on the burst.
My definition of dps is total damage divided by the time it takes to complete a full skill rotation and all the cool-downs, or several minutes if you want to include an elite skill or get a more accurate average.
Dps does not typically apply to peak rate of damage, which is more of a burst rate. All professions have skills for rapid damage, some more than others, so spike damage is also an important measure. Arenanet watches both metrics. That is one reason why some skills have longer cool-downs. An example is Putrid Mark bursting off of Chillblains with the CD on PM setting CD on the burst.
Yeah and thats the calculation of dps I was referring to. Its about 11k dps for all classes when fully buffed with might, fury, vuln, banners, spotter and frost spirit. With max dps builds.