Guild Wars 2

Hello! I’m new to GW2 (I bought GW when it first came out and I’ve played MMOs for years) and I want to try a necromancer because that’s part of what I played in the original. I’ve seen many things around the web about necromancers being broken, such as poor minion AI, but I haven’t really seen other reasons why they’re bad.

Are they a common class? What are some of the main issues and how do people work around them?

Thanks =)

We are the 2nd least common class, coming in close with Engineers. We aren’t bad at all, but you are going to be flooded with posts here about how we are broken.

I suggest looking at Nemesis’ videos as an intro guide, he is really good at showing a lot that we have. Other than that, start leveling the class to 80, play around a lot, try out things that sound weird, and see what you like. Necromancers have a lot of viable builds, so as long as you get a decent idea of what you like to do, there is probably a way to make it work well, you’ll just refine it with time (and retraiting is dirt cheap, so no worries there).

We have a problem with what was intended for us to do and what we can actually do.
ANet wished our profession to win PvP through attrition, using a HP buffer as a way to accomplish that.
However due to other aspects of the game, to countermand our extra HP we became a class with low mobility and damage mitigation skills. These ended up being a vastly superior way to outlast an enemy in a fight compared to more HP, this game has a high focus on mobility, positioning and avoidance.

Necromancers are very good for PvE though, we may not be the fastest killers, which makes many people see the profession as undesirable for Dungeons, but are quite resilient for soloing content so Open world is a very easy thing to accomplish.

Be warned that we still claim the title of buggiest profession in the game, with some unnecessarily obscure skill and trait synergies and many odd quirks to us.

Besides a few broken skills/traits, I don’t see anything wrong with us. I run a full rabid condimancer in WvW and have a blast. survivability, damage, lootbags, and spread ALL the conditions!

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys!

I was thinking of going minion master with an emphasis on survival. Does that sound viable? I’ve always been a fan of having a pet, I guess because my first MMO character was a Warlock in WoW =p

I’m most recently coming from SWTOR which I really really enjoy, but the emphasis on buying things is turning me off so I purchased this instead (Because they wanted me to buy things, I bought something else .. go figure)

Minions are viable in sPvP, most PvE (some dungeons aren’t friendly to them), and in small setting WvW. Basically, the more AoE, or the stronger the AoE, the less viable they are, but in low AoE settings they are very good.

We aren’t so much unviable as having some poorly designed traits/skills.

-Deathshroud lacking synergy with the rest of the profession.
Even in a power build dagger autoattack does more dmg than Life Blast. Why even go into DS in a “safe” situation where you dont need to absorb health? It plays even more poorly with condition builds. Traited for Lifesteal? Doesn’t work in DS.
Aside from builds that very specifically focus on DS, it’s a gloried health shield + Life Transfer to tag mobs in big events. So uninspired in its current implementation.
-Projectile speed on many skills is too slow to be effective. See Necrotic Grasp, Dark Path, Spectral Grasp.
-Signets/Spectrals as a whole lack any coherent playstyle.
-Minion AI is terrible.
-Weapon design is poor compared to other professions. And Ranger, Ranger may be even worse then us.

But hey. At least dagger autoattack + wells works effectively enough that it makes up for everything else. Right?

Necro’s depend on having to spec more defensively that other classes due to lack of mobility. By doing so it reduces our damage comaparitively to other classes in terms of “Burst” dps. If we play a more glass cannon style of play we have less utility to absorb/ mitigate high damage from other burst type classes.

We are the Jack of all trades class and unfortunatley master of none.

All that being said, I love this class! Even with some deficiencies.

Much like engineers have their kits we too have a gimmick called deathshroud which isn’t really all that useful in PvE unless you spec for it. As somebody mentioned above it doesn’t synergize with most of our abilities. To compensate for this gimmick our overall performance falls below the bar and we’re consistently outclassed in damage output by just about every other class.

Revamping deathshroud into something which is actually useful for all builds would go a long way towards fixing us.

Necro isn’t broken so much as not so easy to fit into the roles other classes have. While most other classes are either heavy dps or heavy support, necro falls right smack in the middle of it all and people don’t like that, they aren’t comfortable with this playstyle. We’re all so used to squeezing maximum performance from our classes (be it dps or support, the principal of maximizing output has been the same over time in all MMO’s) that when faced with necro’s middle ground it seems weaker by comparison. Now in pvp, to an extent anyway, this does affect the game play negatively. You do have to force the necro to go for the traditional max potential, because attrition in pvp just isn’t viable with the mechanics we’re given. And that falls to my next point, the mechanics of death shroud and how it affects us in so many situations are not only not clearly defined but sometimes are buggy and far below the bar compared to other class transformations. I honestly don’t think even the devs fully know what they intend for DS, but they swear it’s the key to our class so the players do their best to incorporate it. Now as for minions, yeah their AI is still broken, but it does seem to be improving slowly. It’s gonna be a long road for them to tweak it properly because if they go too far with it it will break the MM and we’re back to square 1. They are still viable though, just look at some of the videos we’ve done demonstrating the MM’s ability to survive in AoE heavy environments. It’s just all about planning and a little cunning and luck lol.
Af for the weapons, I honestly love them all except the staff auto attack. The skills on the weapons are pretty legit with a few minor exceptions and they aren’t game breakers, just annoying. You said you wanted to do a tanky MM and that would be pretty viable, it’s actually one of the builds I’m currently working on as well (well more a DS tank with the ability to swap to MM on the fly because I like being able to do multiple builds with minimal swapping around). The thing to remember about MM is the minions’ personal stats are independent of your own so you can gear yourself however fits your playstyle. A tanky setup would buy you plenty of time on minion cooldowns and provide good CC support for your team if done properly. Like Bhawb said, level one up, get creative with some builds, screw it up a few times until you find something you like, and run with it. Necro can be one of the most rewarding classes to play if you stick with it.

So what IS the role of a Necro endgame then? If it’s sort of in the middle, is there one that I should lean towards?

seraphenslaved.6235:

Besides a few broken skills/traits, I don’t see anything wrong with us. I run a full rabid condimancer in WvW and have a blast. survivability, damage, lootbags, and spread ALL the conditions!

So you took 1 single spec in its best enviroment and said class is fine. /facepalm

To answer first question just open sticky with bug list. Most of them were here since beta.
Look at the amount of red posts here. Start necro and try >DIFFERENT< things in different situations. Then look at the other classes. That should give you the best answer you could ever get, not someones opinion but your own. Maybe you will think they are fine and maybe you wont. Maybe you will be happy with just pve farming or wvw and you simply won’t need to care about the few things you will find broken. Who knows… try.

Navani.5281:

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys!

I was thinking of going minion master with an emphasis on survival. Does that sound viable? I’ve always been a fan of having a pet, I guess because my first MMO character was a Warlock in WoW =p

I’m most recently coming from SWTOR which I really really enjoy, but the emphasis on buying things is turning me off so I purchased this instead (Because they wanted me to buy things, I bought something else .. go figure)

Necro will not be anything even remotely similar to warlock in wow. Pets here are disposable if I think back on vanilla/most of bc… I could tank dungeons with voidwalker because I had some unique trinkets and gear that buffed them even further(they all got either removed or nerfed into oblivion but w/e) here… 1. they don’t regenerate at all… so if all of them are almost dead at the end of a fight they will die in first attack from the next enemy and they will be put on a FULL cooldown after that. Golem regenerates outside combat… assuming jagged horror doesn’t glitch and keep you in combat indefinitely.
Also this class is not mobile at all… draining effects don’t scale with anything. Vampiric traits that give life on hit and the like…. well… for example minions doing life steal for you heals for something like 30 hp per hit… a bit higher if you spend another trait on it. Most people will just laugh it off… but its not as bad as it sounds. Tho not really all that amazing either.
Also you lack cc… sure fear was nerfed in every patch since vanilla… god forbit warlocks wen’t from unfinished class free kill into whoops you actually need to try to kill them. Here fear last 1 second… 3 times less then thief and warrior. >3< times less.
The only other cc you have is root on dagger… and root on bone fiend. A knockdown on golem and ~daze on warhorn…. but honestly compare to flat out stuns/daze/confusion all this cc is arbitrary. warhorn is probably best one simply because unlike dagger its fast and cone. Minion cc is too bloody unreliable at best.
And your damage is sub-par at best. In short this is nothing like warlock in any of the specs. Swtor had much better combat mechanics imo to even bother comparing two.
There are too many road blocks in gw2… like bleed caps, certain stats not affecting certain things. Laughable that crit/crit damage/haste all that is just wasted on minions/condition… etc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-Bug-Compilation-Mk-II

Besides that? We are a “balanced” class, being mediocre at whatever another class might do better.

seraphenslaved.6235:

Besides a few broken skills/traits, I don’t see anything wrong with us.

yep that’s right only 3 things left to fix on the necro. Then they are perfect!!!!!!

it’s funny to see people post their builds here and see so many using broken, bugged or completely worthless traits.

Draehl.2681:

But hey. At least dagger autoattack + wells works effectively enough that it makes up for everything else. Right?

I know you’re being sarcastic, but my god is well bombing one of the sloppiest, most linear, CD heavy play styles I have ever seen and this is all just to get similar burst results to other classes weapon sets.

I am a casual though thoughtful player. I have played ele, eng, thief, and necro. Of all these, the necro is the most fun for me. As Bhawb said, the necro is virtually indestructible in general PVE (i.e., soloing). Among the scholar professions, the necro fares surprisingly well in dungeons. The necro also has a number of reasonably effective builds available to it. This is quite different from the ele and eng.

The thief is great, though I am not sure what the proposed stealth changes will do to the profession in PVE. If you like casters and are interested in PVE, then I advocate the necro. If PvP is of interest, then the mesmer may be a better choice. I am less enthused about the ele due to limited build flexibility, spammy mechanics, and utter lack of health/defense.

I choose to play the necro a certain way. don’t /facepalm me when I said I don’t see anything wrong with them. I play a condition centric class as a condition build, in a part of the game that conditions are strong. so yes, I think they are fine.

I’m all for you guys doing your off the wall builds. I’m a big fan of power/DS focused necro builds myself, but I stated my opinion about the way I play. /classisfine

Whats wrong with necro is the whole class design, way to many things dont mix together.

No healing in Death Shroud = no lifeleech, no regen , no friendly heals, tjeck out the trait lines and see how many we got for healing.

We have no access to skills such as Block , immunity, leap, cleave, projectile reflect, endurance regen, short cd stunbreaker. <- funny how Death shroud somehow makes up for all that.

minions except golem dont regen out of combat meaning 1% hp after fight = instant death next = cd starts at the minions death.
Minion ai ( ranged minions tend to work fine ).
Minions dont scale with any stat.

2 of our elites desummon our minions <- brilliant design choices right there.

No combofield/finisher on 3 of our 4 weaponsets.

scepter and condition / hybrid spec works ok but condition dmg in general still suffers from some major issues and in most/all? dungeons power is prefered over condtion .

But if you like a Slowcasting bad mobility no teamsupport but high hp including abnormal class mechanic then necro is for you.

For PVE its fine till you get to fractals. Then its party mechanics and how your class fits in.

Spvp and wvw are a different matter, but thats prof v prof balance.

wiazabi.2549:

Whats wrong with necro is the whole class design, way to many things dont mix together.

No healing in Death Shroud = no lifeleech, no regen , no friendly heals, tjeck out the trait lines and see how many we got for healing.

We have no access to skills such as Block , immunity, leap, cleave, projectile reflect, endurance regen, short cd stunbreaker. <- funny how Death shroud somehow makes up for all that.

minions except golem dont regen out of combat meaning 1% hp after fight = instant death next = cd starts at the minions death.
Minion ai ( ranged minions tend to work fine ).
Minions dont scale with any stat.

2 of our elites desummon our minions <- brilliant design choices right there.

No combofield/finisher on 3 of our 4 weaponsets.

scepter and condition / hybrid spec works ok but condition dmg in general still suffers from some major issues and in most/all? dungeons power is prefered over condtion .

But if you like a Slowcasting bad mobility no teamsupport but high hp including abnormal class mechanic then necro is for you.

THIS…….so much this and more

love to tatoo this on the devs kittenin foreheads

take away all this great stuff and give us DS which fails so hard at all the things these succeed at.

Then make all of our conditions including fear ridiculously low duration without +duration items/spec and still low duration with it because we have epidemic.

While other classes have great synergy in their abilities and traits the necro has brilliantly been denied almost all synergy in abilities and traits because of DS and epidemic.

yet what are the devs working on? putting a kittening pierce on mesmer GS AA…….

I was blown away how little professionalism the devs showed in the SotG interview.

Is necro a bad class? No. Is it a good class? No.

Necromancer is currently stuck in the realm of middle ground. It can do many things, but none of them it can do well. If you’re the jack of all trades, but master of none (emphasis on the none part), then this class will fit your play style. Be warned, however, its not uncommon for you to get kicked out of higher level fractal groups as a necromancer. Necromancers do not bring anything to the plate in terms of group synergy that matters. Sure, we have conditions and epidemic, but conditions in general do not make or break any situation in PVE when really raw DPS gets the job done faster, and thus a lot less painfully (prolonging a fight in GW2 is actually detrimental for the group).

I know someone is going to bring up Plague Signet and Well of Power, so I’ll just counter that point right now. Boons are a lot stronger than conditions in this game. When you’ve got a guardian thats doing the exact same thing (drawing conditions to himself with Save Yourselves and using Contemplation of Purity) and then converting those conditions into boons, or just converting the entire groups conditions straight to boons all at once, you’re team is being helped a lot more than what Plague Signet has to offer. Well of Power, two things wrong with it from the start. The cool down is extremely restrictive (a problem most necromancer utilities face currently) and it requires people to stand in one location for 5 seconds to get the full effect. Mesmer’s Null Field does the same thing actually, but doesn’t require a trait to make it targetable and has half the cool down. The guardian is doing the exact same thing, but his functions as a stunbreaker AND doesn’t require people to stand in a field for 5 seconds (his eats all conditions in a 600 meter range all at once instead of one at a time over 5 seconds). Suddenly you start to see why necromancers are lacking. Being stationary in any fight is bad. Especially in PvP/fractals where mobility and movement is what keeps you alive.

As others have already explained, this profession boasts the largest bug list in the game, so I won’t go over that part as I’d just be repeating whats already said. What hasn’t been said yet, however, is that necromancers are being held back because of the Death Shroud mechanic. John Peters (GW2 developer, he plays a 5 signet warrior of all things) came out and said that he fears how strong necromancers are because of the Death Shroud mechanic. Then he went on to say that once players figure out how to use Death Shroud properly that this class will become a force to be reckoned with.

Well, 6 months later and people still haven’t found this magic build that incorporates Death Shroud and makes us scary. Death Shroud is the root of the problems this class has. It synergies extremely poorly with every build except builds that have a heavy power and crit emphasis, and even then it still has a very mediocre damage output. You’d be better off not using Death Shroud as it actually lowers your DPS output compared to just using dagger auto attack.

We’re also limited by skills that have long cast times. In a game where every other classes abilities are instant cast, or near instant (1/2 second cast times at most, while ours are a full second and longer) it becomes very hard for us to react to changes in combat. As a result, this class is the least likely to be able to react to and counter another players ability in time. We also have extremely limited access to stability. We get knocked around A LOT in PvP, which makes it extremely difficult to get your casts off.

I will say that necromancers are one of the funnest classes I’ve played so far in this game. One major reason I keep sticking it out. With that said, though, no one will actively seek necromancers for anything. This class doesn’t have a lot going for it in terms of group synergy and doesn’t bring any utility to the table that would help a group survive longer (projectile blockers, group buffs, raw damage, combo finishers, efficient condition to boon conversion, etc).

The other problem is listening to the developers talk about necromancers. I get an extremely strong vibe while listening to them that none of the class balance team has even played this class longer than 10 minutes.

Not broken, unfinished.

Navani.5281:

So what IS the role of a Necro endgame then? If it’s sort of in the middle, is there one that I should lean towards?

So remember that post I made in the beginning where I said: “We aren’t bad at all, but you are going to be flooded with posts here about how we are broken.”? That is what is happening here.

Necromancers are a class based on conditions. Conditions reduce the enemies effectiveness, or increase ours against them, the exact opposite of boons. With that in mind, just go watch Nemesis’ videos, he has a stickied thread at the top of the forums where you can find his stuff. He has great videos for beginners, and it will let you watch someone who knows what they are doing and backs it up without having to watch a bunch of people bicker about how necromancers are bad here.

Bhawb.7408:

Navani.5281:

So what IS the role of a Necro endgame then? If it’s sort of in the middle, is there one that I should lean towards?

So remember that post I made in the beginning where I said: “We aren’t bad at all, but you are going to be flooded with posts here about how we are broken.”? That is what is happening here.

Necromancers are a class based on conditions. Conditions reduce the enemies effectiveness, or increase ours against them, the exact opposite of boons. With that in mind, just go watch Nemesis’ videos, he has a stickied thread at the top of the forums where you can find his stuff. He has great videos for beginners, and it will let you watch someone who knows what they are doing and backs it up without having to watch a bunch of people bicker about how necromancers are bad here.

And at the same time you have these people, that despite the greater outcry of the GW2 community that something just doesn’t add up, you’ll have your occasional people who say theres nothing wrong with it what so ever.

You’ll have to decide for yourself at this point though. You will be fighting up hill battles in PvP. You will not be the first pick for any dungeon run. Keep in mind though, the number of people who say its not up to par outweigh the people who say its fine. There is a reason why necromancer is the second least played class in the game.

Its happened in every single MMO to date. There is always one class thats at the bottom of the list. Eventually, if the MMO in question lasts long enough, the developers take a hard look at the class when they do their class balance phases, and come to the realization that the greater community was right after all, make the necessary changes, and the class in question actually becomes something reasonable.

Just make sure you know what you’re doing, as if you make any sort of gripes here, be prepared for people to suggest basically you just don’t know how to play.

But a more productive question might be, what do you actually want to do endgame in GW2? If its something like run dungeons, people should be honest and tell you Necro’s aren’t the most welcome class in groups.

Kravick.4906:

Keep in mind though, the number of people who say its not up to par outweigh the people who say its fine. There is a reason why necromancer is the second least played class in the game.

Yes, everyone knows that if the majority of people say something, why, it must be true.

Pendragon.8735:

If its something like run dungeons, people should be honest and tell you Necro’s aren’t the most welcome class in groups.

I’ve heard this a lot from people, but I haven’t experienced it often. Does this just happen at high level fractals (which I don’t do yet) or dungeons like Arah that are harder? Because it is really rare that I encounter it in pug groups (not saying it doesn’t happen, I just don’t notice it, but maybe I don’t do hard enough dungeons to where people care). People seem to care a lot more about if you know the dungeon or not than class in my experience.

Bhawb.7408:

So remember that post I made in the beginning where I said: “We aren’t bad at all, but you are going to be flooded with posts here about how we are broken.”? That is what is happening here.

well here is a perfect example of Bhawb’s lack of comprehension. “Aren’t bad” and “broken” are not mutually exclusive.

Example:
Oscar Pistorius’s body is “broken” and yet at the same time he is “not bad” at sprinting. Will he ever win a medal at the Olympics? hasn’t got a chance in hell…..

How many of you necro’s would give up your legs to compete at the olympics knowing you couldn’t win?

Here’s some advice Bawb, keep your legs….

And even without legs he runs faster than 99% of people alive today.

Bhawb.7408:

Kravick.4906:

Keep in mind though, the number of people who say its not up to par outweigh the people who say its fine. There is a reason why necromancer is the second least played class in the game.

Yes, everyone knows that if the majority of people say something, why, it must be true.

With todays access to technology and peoples ability to do research on their own, more often than not, yes. Our entire culture and society is based on this phenomenon.

I’ve heard this a lot from people, but I haven’t experienced it often. Does this just happen at high level fractals (which I don’t do yet) or dungeons like Arah that are harder? Because it is really rare that I encounter it in pug groups (not saying it doesn’t happen, I just don’t notice it, but maybe I don’t do hard enough dungeons to where people care). People seem to care a lot more about if you know the dungeon or not than class in my experience.

Up to level 30, it doesn’t honestly matter. Going any higher, it absolutely matters because at that point it becomes doing the absolute best possible damage combined with hard counters (projectile blocking, aegis, mobility skills to avoid damage completely) to incoming damage. This is why groups at that level contain no less than 2 guardians, at least 1 warrior, and one mesmer. Necromancers bring none of these tools to the table and are thus not even a consideration.

Bhawb.7408:

And even without legs he runs faster than 99% of people alive today.

How do you run without legs? Jeez Bhawb, please think about what you’re saying before you click submit.

Dude uses a machine (yes, prosthetic legs are machines) to do what he couldn’t before. There is a reason why the Olympic officials barred him from ever competing again. Those machines give him a distinct advantage over those of us who still have legs. He actually runs faster now with these things than he did before because of the engineering behind them.

Bhawb.7408:

Kravick.4906:

Keep in mind though, the number of people who say its not up to par outweigh the people who say its fine. There is a reason why necromancer is the second least played class in the game.

Yes, everyone knows that if the majority of people say something, why, it must be true.

yet again Bhawb only sees black and white, grey doesn’t exist.

let me try too

If at least one person says necros are fine then they must be and the rest of us need to L2P because that guy must have figured it all out…

Bhawb.7408:

And even without legs he runs faster than 99% of people alive today.

here is an example of Bhawb trying his best to miss the point completely.

Dredlord.8076:

If at least one person says necros are fine then they must be and the rest of us need to L2P because that guy must have figured it all out…

eSports in general shows this to happen fairly often.

Bhawb.7408:

Dredlord.8076:

If at least one person says necros are fine then they must be and the rest of us need to L2P because that guy must have figured it all out…

eSports in general shows this to happen fairly often.

Not really. eSports tend to show other peoples ability to carry one person. I’ve seen it happen all the time.

Oh hey cool a thread about Oscar Pistorius. It’s always amazing to see how people can overcome perceived limitations. It takes support and determination, but he’s accomplished so much. That business about his girlfriend is such a tragedy though.

Navani.5281:

Hello! I’m new to GW2 (I bought GW when it first came out and I’ve played MMOs for years) and I want to try a necromancer because that’s part of what I played in the original. I’ve seen many things around the web about necromancers being broken, such as poor minion AI, but I haven’t really seen other reasons why they’re bad.

Are they a common class? What are some of the main issues and how do people work around them?

Thanks =)

Like all professions, we’ve got some bugs and a few things each of us would like to see tweaked/changed, but all in all, I’d say we’re pretty strong as a profession. It seems like alot of the complaining is just carryover from earlier months of the game where we had some real weaknesses. We aren’t OP, but we also aren’t UP.

I recently leveled my second necro to 80 (an Asura this time, for the racial skills) and I normally run a conditionmancer/vampire build and am quite happy with it.

This afternoon, for fun, I switched to a MM (minionmancer) build (20/0/30/20/0) and took it to Malchor’s Leap – the zone I despise the most – to try it out. I was very impressed with the ability to plow through content easily. It took alot of work to get into trouble.

While running around, I decided to take on a Champion Risen Giant, which I knew would end badly. But soon after I engaged it, another MM came along and between the two of us and our minions we took it down. Felt pretty good.

(edit: Just soloed a Champion Risen Knight as an MM. Took awhile, but mostly just required alot of persistence and attention to resummoning minions.)

Its nice to have a variety of builds to choose from. I’ve tried all the other classes and I haven’t found one that has a playstyle that is as enjoyable as the necro.

As for commonality, I am seeing ALOT of necros at all levels recently, including endgame. Some are power builds, some condition, some MM. Its almost as if its become the flavor of the month.

OP, I would not let all the negativity dissuade you from playing the necro. Some of the comments are valid, but you have to play what feels right to you. GW2 is new and has many flaws/bugs that may not be resolved until the next expansion. Certain classes (e.g., warriors, thieves, guardians) are more polished than others (e.g., engineers). I do not feel that necros are unpolished or unfinished. Rather, some of their mechanics do not perform optimally in the game. Many would argue that necro traits lack synergy. I do not think this to be an issue. We are able to generate a variety of builds from power to condition to MM to DS. If you want to see bad trait lines, look at the ele fire and air lines. Minor traits that only provide a benefit when in attunement, a minor trait providing 10% run speed that is over-written by swiftness, etc.

The biggest problems that necros face are poor functionality of/support for DS, minion AI and survivability, the limit on condition stacking in groups, and poor mobility. Some of the problems with DS (e.g., UI for boons/conditions) are being looked at, and minion AI has been improved somewhat. I have found minions to perform fairly well in group settings as long as AoE is limited. In groups, necros are debuffers having the ability to spread conditions effectively in a typical conditionmancer or staff/well-based build or through the plague elite. Necros can also provide group healing through wells and transfusion, though not as good as some other professions.

In the end, you have to decide what you want to play. This game favors melee professions by virtue of the fact that all of the most polished professions are melee oriented. However, if you want to play a caster archetype, then the necro offers a lot of flexibility, very good survivability, a potential for good sustained damage, and a neat theme to boot.

Softspoken.2410:

Oh hey cool a thread about Oscar Pistorius. It’s always amazing to see how people can overcome perceived limitations. It takes support and determination, but he’s accomplished so much. That business about his girlfriend is such a tragedy though.

here lemme fix that for you…

It takes high tech prosthetics that have now been banned from the olympics due to the unfair advantage it gives over those who don’t use them, but he’s accomplished so much.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

While running around, I decided to take on a Champion Risen Giant, which I knew would end badly. But soon after I engaged it, another MM came along and between the two of us and our minions we took it down. Felt pretty good.

cool story bro

but even an average mesmer/thief/ele would 2v1 you both with ease.

Whenever you see positive threads or videos about necro it’s about PVE or WvW where they have the protection of a zerg and can fight underlevelled/geared/skilled opponents. Videos like this, while not reflecting upon the skill of the producer don’t mean much to me in the grand scheme.

Rarely do you see necros owning in S/T and even then are carried by a team (I believe it’s one of Nemesis’ videos that talks extensively about how he doesn’t need might/swiftness since he gets it from guardian on the team…sorry but running a dagger build without locust signet is loco without guaranteed team comp) and are there for boon strip and undead signet to res three people. I’ve been playing a lot of S and while I have the most fun on my tankish mediocre bursting well/dagger build, I felt the most useful in a condition single target sniping boon stripper to snipe bunkers down.

However in that build 1v1 is a tragedy due to glassiness so I felt like a fragile antitank weapon that needed to be protected by the team..just a very niche function and not well rounded to win duels or anything…if my opponent doesn’t boon stack I can’t do a lot. Some opponents are so good at boon stacking they can just reapply 6-8 boons after the corrupt boon.

2v1s are rarely possible with necro but everyone has seen videos of 4v1 thief 3v1 guard 3v1 mesmer by now.

Boons beat anti boon because:

The situations in which boons are useful are all situations. The situations where anti boons are usefull are where the opponent has stacked a lot of boons.

Longer duration for less opportunity cost on boons.

Boons aren’t going to miss, your anti boon combo can miss any part of one of the usually three hit components or you get interrupted out of it.

You can disengage with boons easier and reset (hello swiftness) than you can with anti-boon stuff.

Recast times on boon stuff are pretty accessible when you factor in sigils, runes, all the ways you can get boons on the boon producing classes.

Dredlord.8076:

TheAgedGnome.7520:

While running around, I decided to take on a Champion Risen Giant, which I knew would end badly. But soon after I engaged it, another MM came along and between the two of us and our minions we took it down. Felt pretty good.

cool story bro

but even an average mesmer/thief/ele would 2v1 you both with ease.

I saw nowhere in his post where he said a single word about pvp play, stop trolling.

Necros are great at open world PVE.

Otaking.4675:

Whenever you see positive threads or videos about necro it’s about PVE or WvW where they have the protection of a zerg and can fight underlevelled/geared/skilled opponents. Videos like this, while not reflecting upon the skill of the producer don’t mean much to me in the grand scheme.

Rarely do you see necros owning in S/T and even then are carried by a team (I believe it’s one of Nemesis’ videos that talks extensively about how he doesn’t need might/swiftness since he gets it from guardian on the team…sorry but running a dagger build without locust signet is loco without guaranteed team comp) and are there for boon strip and undead signet to res three people. I’ve been playing a lot of S and while I have the most fun on my tankish mediocre bursting well/dagger build, I felt the most useful in a condition single target sniping boon stripper to snipe bunkers down.

However in that build 1v1 is a tragedy due to glassiness so I felt like a fragile antitank weapon that needed to be protected by the team..just a very niche function and not well rounded to win duels or anything…if my opponent doesn’t boon stack I can’t do a lot. Some opponents are so good at boon stacking they can just reapply 6-8 boons after the corrupt boon.

2v1s are rarely possible with necro but everyone has seen videos of 4v1 thief 3v1 guard 3v1 mesmer by now.

So its not just me then.

I’ve spent the last 2 weeks in tPvP trying to get my Champion Phantom (horrible horrible experience so far. My champion shadow title on my thief was infinitely easier to get and took me only 1 week and 2 days solo quing) title and this is exactly how I feel. As I watch mesmers, thieves, and guardians wade into a group of people and plow them all down, I can’t help the feeling that there is just something wrong here. I have never seen a necromancer pull something like this. If 2 or more people look my general direction, even as a full tank minion build, I’ll go down rather quickly and there is nothing I can do to prolong the fight. The same thing happens to necromancers on enemy teams as well so its not just something only I’m experiencing. Meanwhile, engineers and guardians are perfectly capable of holding a point vs 3 other people. Engineers seem especially good at this. So much so that it takes no less than 4 people or a treb to beat down a pure bunker engineer. What in the hell is ANet thinking calling us an attrition class when you’ve got engineers pulling off kitten like this?

Kravick.4906:

Otaking.4675:

Whenever you see positive threads or videos about necro it’s about PVE or WvW where they have the protection of a zerg and can fight underlevelled/geared/skilled opponents. Videos like this, while not reflecting upon the skill of the producer don’t mean much to me in the grand scheme.

Rarely do you see necros owning in S/T and even then are carried by a team (I believe it’s one of Nemesis’ videos that talks extensively about how he doesn’t need might/swiftness since he gets it from guardian on the team…sorry but running a dagger build without locust signet is loco without guaranteed team comp) and are there for boon strip and undead signet to res three people. I’ve been playing a lot of S and while I have the most fun on my tankish mediocre bursting well/dagger build, I felt the most useful in a condition single target sniping boon stripper to snipe bunkers down.

However in that build 1v1 is a tragedy due to glassiness so I felt like a fragile antitank weapon that needed to be protected by the team..just a very niche function and not well rounded to win duels or anything…if my opponent doesn’t boon stack I can’t do a lot. Some opponents are so good at boon stacking they can just reapply 6-8 boons after the corrupt boon.

2v1s are rarely possible with necro but everyone has seen videos of 4v1 thief 3v1 guard 3v1 mesmer by now.

So its not just me then.

I’ve spent the last 2 weeks in tPvP trying to get my Champion Phantom (horrible horrible experience so far. My champion shadow title on my thief was infinitely easier to get and took me only 1 week and 2 days solo quing) title and this is exactly how I feel. As I watch mesmers, thieves, and guardians wade into a group of people and plow them all down, I can’t help the feeling that there is just something wrong here. I have never seen a necromancer pull something like this. If 2 or more people look my general direction, even as a full tank minion build, I’ll go down rather quickly and there is nothing I can do to prolong the fight. The same thing happens to necromancers on enemy teams as well so its not just something only I’m experiencing. Meanwhile, engineers and guardians are perfectly capable of holding a point vs 3 other people. Engineers seem especially good at this. So much so that it takes no less than 4 people or a treb to beat down a pure bunker engineer.

It isn’t just you.

The classes you describe have access to a lot of things that make them well-suited to, you know, actual combat.

A collection of AoE knockback, leaps, easy Protection/Vigor access, cleaving attacks, loads of healing, etc. etc.

Basically, all of the stuff they designed Necro to not have because it’s supposed to be a “defensive powerhouse” is stuff you actually need to defend yourself.

Navani.5281:

So what IS the role of a Necro endgame then? If it’s sort of in the middle, is there one that I should lean towards?

Well, one thing I can say is that Necromancer is not a one trick pony. Necromancers have flexible builds that you can experiment in and enjoy.

Most people would treat WvW as an endgame and there we shine in Group play. We can also do great damage while still having a bit more survivability than the average berserker warrior.

As for endgame here’s my opinion.
Warriors shine in Cof, which is only one out of many dungeons.

Thief, while doing great in WvW (can do very well in 1v1) is not that good in dungeons.

Necromancer is actually viable in Fractals. And I play with guildies mostly so I never have problems with pugs and grouping.

If you like flexibility and tons of AOE then Necromancer is for you. But if you want to be really good at one thing. (Damage, Tanking, Utility) then there are other class who can do it better.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Dredlord.8076:

TheAgedGnome.7520:

While running around, I decided to take on a Champion Risen Giant, which I knew would end badly. But soon after I engaged it, another MM came along and between the two of us and our minions we took it down. Felt pretty good.

cool story bro

but even an average mesmer/thief/ele would 2v1 you both with ease.

I saw nowhere in his post where he said a single word about pvp play, stop trolling.

It’s also funny in SOTG where the developers (forgot his name) said that they were improving the Mesmer’s Greatsword because it is very hard for them to hit a Necromancer with minions all around. Hmmm… I wonder which is true coz I haven’t made an MM build.

Also I don’t get it when people say that between this class and this class, the “superior” class will ALWAYS win. Like there’s no other factor to consider. It’s like kids comparing which pokemon is better. lol

Thanks again for all the replies. I learned a lot from reading this thread about pros and cons, and the arguments all bring out good points. I also plan on chopping my legs off and getting prosthetics.

Should I reroll a Mesmer? One thing I dislike is playing a class that’s overplayed, and I thought Mesmers are the third least played. I love casting and I’m having fun with my Necro, but I don’t want to have trouble both PvPing and running dungeons at 80.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

DarkniteJ.8053:

It’s also funny in SOTG where the developers (forgot his name) said that they were improving the Mesmer’s Greatsword because it is very hard for them to hit a Necromancer with minions all around. Hmmm… I wonder which is true coz I haven’t made an MM build.

Context for that sentence -
Xeph: So the beam does not pierce your target, so people can just run up and block the beam, away from their friend?
Karl: So right now, spatial surge will hit up to three targets. So this should always hit your main target. But then it’ll hit up to two other targets in between.
Xeph: But isn’t that a little too strong? A little too much AoE?
Jon: You’ve brought up the opposite side, which is you have somebody who blocks it for you. There’s a lot of skill and play in a body block. But then it gets into issues where what if you’re fighting a necro that’s got a lot of minions? Then you’re just screwed, because the minions are always in the way. So we’re gonna watch that very carefully, the balance on that, because there’s a lot of play ramifications.

They didn’t make that statement about how the greatsword currently plays, but how it would play once beam attacks were able to be body-blocked. As it is, spatial surge will ignore your minions completely if the mesmer is even a little competent at choosing their targets.

Navani.5281:

Thanks again for all the replies. I learned a lot from reading this thread about pros and cons, and the arguments all bring out good points. I also plan on coping my legs off and getting prosthetics.

Should I reroll a Mesmer? One thing I dislike is playing a class that’s overplayed, and I thought Mesmers are the third least played. I love casting and I’m having fun with my Necro, but I don’t want to have trouble both PvPing and running dungeons at 80.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

Mesmers are actually played a lot in sPvP and WvW roaming because of how strong they are in small group fights. You’ll see less in dungeons and WvW zerg fights because clones are hard to shatter on people in the middle of a zerg with AoE flying every where. NPCs just one shot them in dungeons and, like in WvW, theres a lot of hard hitting AoE flying around.

Honestly, all of the light armor classes in this game have really stupid mechanics or broken things that make them less than adequate when compared to the heavy and certain medium classes.

Elementalists are pigeon holed into 30 arcane and at least 20 in water with their trait trees because the other 3 are so god awful. This is why you see nothing but dagger/dagger elementalists every where. Staff is ok in dungeons but you can’t PvP outside of a zerg with staff as an elementalist without getting curb stomped. Scepter is dependent on skills that are extremely hard to hit moving targets with and focus is a pure utility weapon.

Mesmers are to dependent on easily killed clones (players tend to focus clones a lot less in sPvP and thats why they work there) for their damage output. Mesmers make a great roaming class in WvW though and do very well in sPvP.

Necros are… well, this thread.

Been playing my necro for about a week, I use a Hybrid, condition/power build and i love it.

Lots of good points here about it’s flaws, but freakin A, it’s fun. These people complaining about it must like it if there willing to sacrifice there time to trash on it.

I played an engi; very versatile but Necro is easy to pick up if you take some time to learn the character as opose to running to 80 and expect greatness.

Every prof could use a tweak here and there, but still enjoy my necro. Woot Woot