Guild Wars 2

Only thing that will not happen is the mob get slowed moviments, but our chill dmg will still kicks in. I am fine with that.
Would be weird if a raid boss can be kited around because fo chill, tbh.

Malachi Draven.2865:

You guys are wasting your breath. You’re forgetting the very important statement made by Anet that they want raids to work with ANY group composition. They don’t want any required classes, which also means that every class is viable.

Basically, you guys are expecting these raids to be waaaay tougher than they actually will be. Reaper or not, selfish dps or not, you can play whatever class you have the most fun with and you’ll be fine. I guarantee you there will never be a situation where a raid wipes and somebody thinks “I bet we died because we brought the Reaper…”.

All content is already like this. You can run full nomads right now and beat the dungeons and fractal content. It will be slow as all hell. But you can do it.

The discussion here, is when people want to bring classes that support the team in the best way, they won’t want to bring a necro when other classes offer so much more.

Malachi Draven.2865:

You guys are wasting your breath. You’re forgetting the very important statement made by Anet that they want raids to work with ANY group composition. They don’t want any required classes, which also means that every class is viable.

Basically, you guys are expecting these raids to be waaaay tougher than they actually will be. Reaper or not, selfish dps or not, you can play whatever class you have the most fun with and you’ll be fine. I guarantee you there will never be a situation where a raid wipes and somebody thinks “I bet we died because we brought the Reaper…”.

You’ve described the game as it is right now. Dungeons being 10 man isn’t going to make things any different.

We’re living in a world right now where ‘No Necros’ or ‘No Rangers’ or ‘Ele only’ is a real thing.

Malachi Draven.2865:

You guys are wasting your breath. You’re forgetting the very important statement made by Anet that they want raids to work with ANY group composition. They don’t want any required classes, which also means that every class is viable.

Basically, you guys are expecting these raids to be waaaay tougher than they actually will be. Reaper or not, selfish dps or not, you can play whatever class you have the most fun with and you’ll be fine. I guarantee you there will never be a situation where a raid wipes and somebody thinks “I bet we died because we brought the Reaper…”.

Dungeons were supposed to be that way too, but look at them now, if the question isn’t “what do we need to get this done” the question becomes “what do we need to get this done the quickest and fastest way possible”. And right now, even with reaper we sorta fail at those since we are so selfish and don’t have projectile destruction or really any group defense or buffs.

Lynnie.7213:

Would be weird if a raid boss can be kited around because fo chill, tbh.

Why it’s fine to have perma swiftness but not cripple? Why are they allowing the scrapper to blast AoE superspeed? Why you can have quickness and alacrity but not chill and slow?

Seriously, the “offending” conditions have the same net effect of the corresponding boons. If their effect are considered too strong place a cap or a reduction so they are on par with boons.

The whole “but they would be too strong” argument is a joke when you are currently achieving the same results with boons.

Anyway, I still mostly disagree with what many of you are suggesting, but I forwarded your concerns to the developers to evaluate. I’m sure they’ll consider that feedback before making a final decision.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Anyway, I still mostly disagree with what many of you are suggesting, but I forwarded your concerns to the developers to evaluate. I’m sure they’ll consider that feedback before making a final decision.

Thank you for forwarding our concerns and I apologize if I was rude.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Anyway, I still mostly disagree with what many of you are suggesting, but I forwarded your concerns to the developers to evaluate. I’m sure they’ll consider that feedback before making a final decision.

Thanks, though I do want to add, if a soft CC is going to ruin the design of an encounter they’re working on I have no problem with them putting that immunity on those enemies. But, the idea of just globally blocking it is wrong to me. It limits options, and isn’t necessary.

Malachi Draven.2865:

I guarantee you there will never be a situation where a raid wipes and somebody thinks “I bet we died because we brought the Reaper…”.

There will always be someone who thinks this.

While I was beta testing my reaper in Caudecus’s manor I thought this myself.

Every time my group wiped, I thought “If I was playing my guardian right now, that wouldn’t have happened”. Though, to be fair to the reaper, no one is better at carrying bad pugs than a guardian.

Quarktastic.1027:

Malachi Draven.2865:

I guarantee you there will never be a situation where a raid wipes and somebody thinks “I bet we died because we brought the Reaper…”.

There will always be someone who thinks this.

While I was beta testing my reaper in Caudecus’s manor I thought this myself.

Every time my group wiped, I thought “If I was playing my guardian right now, that wouldn’t have happened”. Though, to be fair to the reaper, no one is better at carrying bad pugs than a guardian.

This is actually a legitimate concern. Necros, being the “selfish” class, play by themselves next to 4 other players. They have some good debuffs and boon stripping, but they can’t control or manipulate the field like other classes can. I mean, I’ve soloed quite a few champions with the rest of my team lying their dead (in full berzerker gear, btw), but other classes have more support tools to keep teammates alive. My preferred dungeon runner is the thief, precisely because the large defensive utility lets me save people.

Good news is, the reaper helps with that. Chill helps with disengage, nightfall adds a second blindfield, they get a pull for relocating enemies, better vulnerability stacking, a short term reflect, a really solid AoE stun, and a type of boon stripping which always converts to vulnerability. For current dungeons, it is definitely an improvement. Probably not meta, but you won’t see as much “ew, a necro”.

For the new raids… who knows. I imagine that the new group composition for passive breakbar destruction will have a sword/pistol thief and a reaper. Sword/pistol thief provides nigh permanent cripple, weakness, and blind, whereas the reaper will provide more blinds and chill. Throw that on top of the 5 elementalists, 2 warriors, and a mesmer, and we may have a spot.

ODB.6891:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

I’ll never understand the need to point out the 25 self might and vuln stacking as our strengths in a team environment…which is exactly what raids are. Those things are redundant and therefore not selling points in a team/raid environment. It doesn’t matter if we need anyone else to accomplish this….because there are guaranteed to be 9 others there whether we need them or not…and we will actually need them since raids will require it.

I would also dispute these sustainability claims. Yes, we can take multiple smaller hits over longer durations, but the sustainability falls apart when the hits are one shots or for short durations…that are able to be blocked/invulned/evaded. Our self spike heals are pretty weak…and the same can’t be said for our counterparts. Its not like they are lacking top tier recovery options.

In open world when I’m doing events with just random people or even in a party with friends the amount of might I gain from them is probably about 3 stacks. Maybe 6. In the chaos of many events and the distance at which I’m expecting these groups to be spread out self generated might is a very strong selling point for a frontline fighter who’ll often not be in the range of your ally’s support.

Yes, one shots are a problem, however they’ve become far more rare over the years and really only Arah seems to put that sort of nonsense on common attacks and not large telegraphed attacks. Most attacks, even the ones that seem like they’re a one shot, are actually not.

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

I don’t know what beta people you are talking about. Probably the fanboy reddit downvoting brigade that must only know the smell of kitten by now since their nose seems to spend all days of the year firmly shoved into the sweet kitten they love to brownnose.

Some of us have been saying these things about class since before beta release. We said not to give ranger pets, and they forced down pets without proper implementation. We told them necromancer would suffer for lack of active defenses and removing the blink from dark path, and so it happened.

We told them mesmer’s shatter mechanic was flawed in PvE with its conflict with phantasms as the main damage delivery of mesmers, that illusions and all pet based classes suffer to the aoe spam, and that PvE class damage balance was nowhere close to good.

They proceeded to gloss over these issues and for 3 years the “no ranger/no necro, ele/guard/thief/warrior preferred” PvE mantra has festered.

Substatic.6958:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

To be fair, this person is apparently talking about open world in a thread about raids and instanced content…this judging from the above reply where they talk about open world specifically in the reply to me about this.

As far as the thread topic though, ANET really needs to pull their heads out of the sand/PvP and fix our PvE participation chances…I mean its been 3 years now. Its clear from the persistent no necro sentiment in PvE group content that the things they do give us are not good selling points for necros in instanced PvE. Its is undeniably proven, after 3 years of observation, that being an unhealable hp sponge that cannot participate in the boon/utility circle of life…has ostracized necromancers from high level PvE instanced content.

ODB.6891:

Substatic.6958:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

To be fair, this person is apparently talking about open world in a thread about raids and instanced content…this judging from the above reply where they talk about open world specifically in the reply to me about this.

As far as the thread topic though, ANET really needs to pull their heads out of the sand/PvP and fix our PvE participation chances…I mean its been 3 years now. Its clear from the persistent no necro sentiment in PvE group content that the things they do give us are not good selling points for necros in instanced PvE. Its is undeniably proven, after 3 years of observation, that being an unhealable hp sponge that cannot participate in the boon/utility circle of life…has ostracized necromancers from high level PvE instanced content.

To be fair, I’m well respected in the necromancer community and also a group organizer for my guild. I also know how to run dungeons in both might stacking groups and running without pre-buffing and playing the content without stacking. And I can tell you, most party buffs from skills and traits have a 600 range or less. You’re not going to be expected to be within that range while in a Group. Organized or not. Some times you can, however if Raids are what arena net are promising its not going to be often that you will be able to.

Lily.1935:

ODB.6891:

Substatic.6958:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

To be fair, this person is apparently talking about open world in a thread about raids and instanced content…this judging from the above reply where they talk about open world specifically in the reply to me about this.

As far as the thread topic though, ANET really needs to pull their heads out of the sand/PvP and fix our PvE participation chances…I mean its been 3 years now. Its clear from the persistent no necro sentiment in PvE group content that the things they do give us are not good selling points for necros in instanced PvE. Its is undeniably proven, after 3 years of observation, that being an unhealable hp sponge that cannot participate in the boon/utility circle of life…has ostracized necromancers from high level PvE instanced content.

To be fair, I’m well respected in the necromancer community and also a group organizer for my guild. I also know how to run dungeons in both might stacking groups and running without pre-buffing and playing the content without stacking. And I can tell you, most party buffs from skills and traits have a 600 range or less. You’re not going to be expected to be within that range while in a Group. Organized or not. Some times you can, however if Raids are what arena net are promising its not going to be often that you will be able to.

Why would you ever be further than 600 from your party members? you are doing something terribly wrong if you find yourself further than 600 from them. I can only think of 1 or 2 instances in all the dungeons where you’d want to be further than 600 from your party members. Obviously really bad pugs tend to spread out, but no truly organized group, or even well organized pug would ever do what you are describing.

The fact is, if it is safe for one person to stand somewhere, then it is safe for the other party members to be standing there as well and there is no reason NOT to be standing there. Other than the occasional debuff that makes one or two people leave the stack I doubt raids will be any different.

Lily.1935:

To be fair, I’m well respected in the necromancer community and also a group organizer for my guild. I also know how to run dungeons in both might stacking groups and running without pre-buffing and playing the content without stacking. And I can tell you, most party buffs from skills and traits have a 600 range or less. You’re not going to be expected to be within that range while in a Group. Organized or not. Some times you can, however if Raids are what arena net are promising its not going to be often that you will be able to.

Organized or not, you need to be within 600 range to actually play as a team by supporting each other. And it’s not a secret, the necromancer ain’t good at supporting it’s team.

If you look at the raid preview we’ve got 3 boss fight :

1- 3 scarlet’s holo thingy with a kind of aura each. For this fight, we will probably have to split to be able to take down them. But splitting make the ability to be able to grant boon to your teammate even more important. (in fact you will probably need to be able to grant enough support for each sub group taking care of it’s boss)

2- The big gross beast that wipe player periodically and you gotta flee. Again, you will probably have to split each time to secure an exit. Again, to maximize your chance to secure this exit you will have to work together to do it.

3- The flamethrower big girl and it’s little attendant. I’m pretty certain that you’ll need to controle the attendant while taking care of the big girl to avoid difficult situation.

All of this to say that, even if you gotta split, you will rarely be scattered around mindlessly. Together players are strong, solo your just delaying your death. There will alway be a need for boon providing profession, even more if you have to split your group because boons are the very basic of the teamplay in GW2. And if raid are what Anet said it will be I don’t think that the teamplay will be trivialized but instead it will become even more important. Being within 600 range of it’s teammate will probably become mandatory not because it’s how it’s done right now, but because you will have to optimize every second of the fight and losing time and support due to being far away from each other will only lead to a wipe.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Lily.1935:

ODB.6891:

Substatic.6958:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

To be fair, this person is apparently talking about open world in a thread about raids and instanced content…this judging from the above reply where they talk about open world specifically in the reply to me about this.

As far as the thread topic though, ANET really needs to pull their heads out of the sand/PvP and fix our PvE participation chances…I mean its been 3 years now. Its clear from the persistent no necro sentiment in PvE group content that the things they do give us are not good selling points for necros in instanced PvE. Its is undeniably proven, after 3 years of observation, that being an unhealable hp sponge that cannot participate in the boon/utility circle of life…has ostracized necromancers from high level PvE instanced content.

To be fair, I’m well respected in the necromancer community and also a group organizer for my guild. I also know how to run dungeons in both might stacking groups and running without pre-buffing and playing the content without stacking. And I can tell you, most party buffs from skills and traits have a 600 range or less. You’re not going to be expected to be within that range while in a Group. Organized or not. Some times you can, however if Raids are what arena net are promising its not going to be often that you will be able to.

Why would you ever be further than 600 from your party members? you are doing something terribly wrong if you find yourself further than 600 from them. I can only think of 1 or 2 instances in all the dungeons where you’d want to be further than 600 from your party members. Obviously really bad pugs tend to spread out, but no truly organized group, or even well organized pug would ever do what you are describing.

The fact is, if it is safe for one person to stand somewhere, then it is safe for the other party members to be standing there as well and there is no reason NOT to be standing there. Other than the occasional debuff that makes one or two people leave the stack I doubt raids will be any different.

You’re comparing dungeons to raids. Which is your first mistake. Raids are not going to be dungeons. And if it is what arena net promises than you’ll need to have a full range of your party. Meaning you’ll have people at 1,200/1,500 range from the boss, people at 600/900 range and people at melee. This isn’t going to be perfect, especially the first time going through, its going to be sloppy and people stacking together in 600 range will get the mopped up by the boss really easily. These areas you should also expect to have your party broken up in to smaller than 5 man groups. Expect several situations were you’re stuck with only 2 of your allies or none at all within your range.

Here is a list of some mechanics that can break your party up:

• An extremely large boss that requires several focal points around its body.

• Effects that forcibly teleport players away from the fight into a location that puts them out of your range.

• Areas that require a certain number of players while one maybe 2 players stay behind to maintain a switch or something similar.

• Defender fights that put way too much pressure at the point that is supposed to be defended in that 600 range so you need people posted at each of the spawn points. Spawn points could be 3-5 and be far away from each other so you can’t rely on all your allies buffs.

• Too many people close together could trigger new types of foes or new abilities of the boss that is specifically designed to counter that.

• An Aoe Field that has a 600 Radius that interrupts each second and deals massive damage that also targets a party member at random… Several times.

Many of these have been seen before in other games and we’ve seen this to a very minor degree in GW2. The aoe field of the last example has been done before in GW1 minus the interrupting part.

We’ve also seen raids where people all pile onto a single spot in raids in other games.

But even if we are to assume groups need to split up, they’ll likely still be split up into small camps of people as opposed to lone players each standing outside of range of one another. In this situation you make Necromancers even less useful because now the raid needs multiples of the same classes that provide more utility at the expense of raw DPS.

Necromancers have no utility AND low damage. Short of there being some niche encounter that is specifically designed to align with the limited utility the class does provide, things aren’t likely to be any better in HOT. Certainly not for those who choose to play Necro over Reaper.

Lily.1935:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Lily.1935:

ODB.6891:

Substatic.6958:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

To be fair, this person is apparently talking about open world in a thread about raids and instanced content…this judging from the above reply where they talk about open world specifically in the reply to me about this.

As far as the thread topic though, ANET really needs to pull their heads out of the sand/PvP and fix our PvE participation chances…I mean its been 3 years now. Its clear from the persistent no necro sentiment in PvE group content that the things they do give us are not good selling points for necros in instanced PvE. Its is undeniably proven, after 3 years of observation, that being an unhealable hp sponge that cannot participate in the boon/utility circle of life…has ostracized necromancers from high level PvE instanced content.

To be fair, I’m well respected in the necromancer community and also a group organizer for my guild. I also know how to run dungeons in both might stacking groups and running without pre-buffing and playing the content without stacking. And I can tell you, most party buffs from skills and traits have a 600 range or less. You’re not going to be expected to be within that range while in a Group. Organized or not. Some times you can, however if Raids are what arena net are promising its not going to be often that you will be able to.

Why would you ever be further than 600 from your party members? you are doing something terribly wrong if you find yourself further than 600 from them. I can only think of 1 or 2 instances in all the dungeons where you’d want to be further than 600 from your party members. Obviously really bad pugs tend to spread out, but no truly organized group, or even well organized pug would ever do what you are describing.

The fact is, if it is safe for one person to stand somewhere, then it is safe for the other party members to be standing there as well and there is no reason NOT to be standing there. Other than the occasional debuff that makes one or two people leave the stack I doubt raids will be any different.

You’re comparing dungeons to raids. Which is your first mistake. Raids are not going to be dungeons. And if it is what arena net promises than you’ll need to have a full range of your party. Meaning you’ll have people at 1,200/1,500 range from the boss, people at 600/900 range and people at melee. This isn’t going to be perfect, especially the first time going through, its going to be sloppy and people stacking together in 600 range will get the mopped up by the boss really easily. These areas you should also expect to have your party broken up in to smaller than 5 man groups. Expect several situations were you’re stuck with only 2 of your allies or none at all within your range.

Here is a list of some mechanics that can break your party up:

• An extremely large boss that requires several focal points around its body.

• Effects that forcibly teleport players away from the fight into a location that puts them out of your range.

• Areas that require a certain number of players while one maybe 2 players stay behind to maintain a switch or something similar.

• Defender fights that put way too much pressure at the point that is supposed to be defended in that 600 range so you need people posted at each of the spawn points. Spawn points could be 3-5 and be far away from each other so you can’t rely on all your allies buffs.

• Too many people close together could trigger new types of foes or new abilities of the boss that is specifically designed to counter that.

• An Aoe Field that has a 600 Radius that interrupts each second and deals massive damage that also targets a party member at random… Several times.

Many of these have been seen before in other games and we’ve seen this to a very minor degree in GW2. The aoe field of the last example has been done before in GW1 minus the interrupting part.

All you’ve done is designed a bunch of gimmicks that adhere to your specific pipe dream of what the game should be while completely destroying all the team aspects of GW2. This will never happen so i’m not going to bother to argue against it.

The most effective strategy in raids will be to work with your teammates, not run around ignoring them. Anything else will make raids trivial.

Atherakhia.4086:

We’ve also seen raids where people all pile onto a single spot in raids in other games.

But even if we are to assume groups need to split up, they’ll likely still be split up into small camps of people as opposed to lone players each standing outside of range of one another. In this situation you make Necromancers even less useful because now the raid needs multiples of the same classes that provide more utility at the expense of raw DPS.

Necromancers have no utility AND low damage. Short of there being some niche encounter that is specifically designed to align with the limited utility the class does provide, things aren’t likely to be any better in HOT. Certainly not for those who choose to play Necro over Reaper.

except we don’t have low damage. That’s a myth which has been busted multiple times. Our burst is low, yes this is true but our sustained damage is extremely good. And, not only that Vulnerability far more valuable to a party than might is in terms of providing damage. This is just a fact we can show this with the mathematics.

The reaper can stack vulnerability like no other profession I’ve seen. And actually sustain it. Not even my engineer does that well in stacking it or as quickly. Will Scrapper be able to stack it just as well as reaper? That is yet to be scene. The answer to that is maybe.

However, the necromancer has more than just vulnerability they can use. They also have some of the most potent boon stripping in the game. Which only the mesmer compares to in that regard.

In raids we are expected to use all of our tools and all of our mechanics. So I fully expect to have to use skills like “Nothing can save you” in PvE. You also have to remember that Chill actually causes the defiance bar to degenerate. That is absolutely huge! Thats going to be a major factor against bosses who might have quick regenerating and/or heard to break defiance. And considering that the reaper can both apply a whole bunch of chill and sustain it on their own while at the same time dishing out a heap of damage and being capable of surviving a boss’s focus fire while doing it, I see major value in the necromancer.

And also, unless you’re planning to run something like, 5 phalanx warriors in your raid my point stills stands. And if you are actually planning that I’d say you’re silly and wasting your time.

PS: Pre-buffing will be virtually useless.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Lily.1935:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Lily.1935:

ODB.6891:

Substatic.6958:

Lily.1935:

the necromancer has outstanding sustainability now and can hit extremely hard with sustained damage. Other professions have much higher burst damage than we do, like elementalist and warrior, but their sustainability is no where near as high. As fights last longer the necromancer has an advantage in that regard since our life force generation has actually improved greatly over the years letting us quickly build our bar back up. This means we can stay in the fight much longer. We’re also very self sufficient as compared to other professions. We can stack 25 might without the use of foods are relying on ally buffs. We can also dish out 25 valn on our own meaning we literally don’t need anyone else with us in a fight.

Meanwhile in lfg “LF2M lvl40 Fractal No Necro/Ranger”

the necromancer will have a solid spot on a team.

Beta people said this before release of Vanilla too.

To be fair, this person is apparently talking about open world in a thread about raids and instanced content…this judging from the above reply where they talk about open world specifically in the reply to me about this.

As far as the thread topic though, ANET really needs to pull their heads out of the sand/PvP and fix our PvE participation chances…I mean its been 3 years now. Its clear from the persistent no necro sentiment in PvE group content that the things they do give us are not good selling points for necros in instanced PvE. Its is undeniably proven, after 3 years of observation, that being an unhealable hp sponge that cannot participate in the boon/utility circle of life…has ostracized necromancers from high level PvE instanced content.

To be fair, I’m well respected in the necromancer community and also a group organizer for my guild. I also know how to run dungeons in both might stacking groups and running without pre-buffing and playing the content without stacking. And I can tell you, most party buffs from skills and traits have a 600 range or less. You’re not going to be expected to be within that range while in a Group. Organized or not. Some times you can, however if Raids are what arena net are promising its not going to be often that you will be able to.

Why would you ever be further than 600 from your party members? you are doing something terribly wrong if you find yourself further than 600 from them. I can only think of 1 or 2 instances in all the dungeons where you’d want to be further than 600 from your party members. Obviously really bad pugs tend to spread out, but no truly organized group, or even well organized pug would ever do what you are describing.

The fact is, if it is safe for one person to stand somewhere, then it is safe for the other party members to be standing there as well and there is no reason NOT to be standing there. Other than the occasional debuff that makes one or two people leave the stack I doubt raids will be any different.

You’re comparing dungeons to raids. Which is your first mistake. Raids are not going to be dungeons. And if it is what arena net promises than you’ll need to have a full range of your party. Meaning you’ll have people at 1,200/1,500 range from the boss, people at 600/900 range and people at melee. This isn’t going to be perfect, especially the first time going through, its going to be sloppy and people stacking together in 600 range will get the mopped up by the boss really easily. These areas you should also expect to have your party broken up in to smaller than 5 man groups. Expect several situations were you’re stuck with only 2 of your allies or none at all within your range.

Here is a list of some mechanics that can break your party up:

• An extremely large boss that requires several focal points around its body.

• Effects that forcibly teleport players away from the fight into a location that puts them out of your range.

• Areas that require a certain number of players while one maybe 2 players stay behind to maintain a switch or something similar.

• Defender fights that put way too much pressure at the point that is supposed to be defended in that 600 range so you need people posted at each of the spawn points. Spawn points could be 3-5 and be far away from each other so you can’t rely on all your allies buffs.

• Too many people close together could trigger new types of foes or new abilities of the boss that is specifically designed to counter that.

• An Aoe Field that has a 600 Radius that interrupts each second and deals massive damage that also targets a party member at random… Several times.

Many of these have been seen before in other games and we’ve seen this to a very minor degree in GW2. The aoe field of the last example has been done before in GW1 minus the interrupting part.

All you’ve done is designed a bunch of gimmicks that adhere to your specific pipe dream of what the game should be while completely destroying all the team aspects of GW2. This will never happen so i’m not going to bother to argue against it.

The most effective strategy in raids will be to work with your teammates, not run around ignoring them. Anything else will make raids trivial.

Who said I was ignoring them? I understand that in a group you’re not always guaranteed to be able to stick together. Except in dungeons which are currently horribly broken where people freeze the boss and kill it in seconds before anything can react negating any challenge that would have been there. You wont be able to stand in a corner and face roll. Bosses will have attacks designed to break up the party. This happened in GW1 in some of the most rewarding dungeon/raid type content in the game and to assume that a boss breaking up a party would “Ruin the game” suggests that raiding isn’t for you and you have an extremely narrow view of the game.

Lily.1935:

Atherakhia.4086:

We’ve also seen raids where people all pile onto a single spot in raids in other games.

But even if we are to assume groups need to split up, they’ll likely still be split up into small camps of people as opposed to lone players each standing outside of range of one another. In this situation you make Necromancers even less useful because now the raid needs multiples of the same classes that provide more utility at the expense of raw DPS.

Necromancers have no utility AND low damage. Short of there being some niche encounter that is specifically designed to align with the limited utility the class does provide, things aren’t likely to be any better in HOT. Certainly not for those who choose to play Necro over Reaper.

except we don’t have low damage. That’s a myth which has been busted multiple times. Our burst is low, yes this is true but our sustained damage is extremely good. And, not only that Vulnerability far more valuable to a party than might is in terms of providing damage. This is just a fact we can show this with the mathematics.

The reaper can stack vulnerability like no other profession I’ve seen. And actually sustain it. Not even my engineer does that well in stacking it or as quickly. Will Scrapper be able to stack it just as well as reaper? That is yet to be scene. The answer to that is maybe.

However, the necromancer has more than just vulnerability they can use. They also have some of the most potent boon stripping in the game. Which only the mesmer compares to in that regard.

In raids we are expected to use all of our tools and all of our mechanics. So I fully expect to have to use skills like “Nothing can save you” in PvE. You also have to remember that Chill actually causes the defiance bar to degenerate. That is absolutely huge! Thats going to be a major factor against bosses who might have quick regenerating and/or heard to break defiance. And considering that the reaper can both apply a whole bunch of chill and sustain it on their own while at the same time dishing out a heap of damage and being capable of surviving a boss’s focus fire while doing it, I see major value in the necromancer.

And also, unless you’re planning to run something like, 5 phalanx warriors in your raid my point stills stands. And if you are actually planning that I’d say you’re silly and wasting your time.

PS: Pre-buffing will be virtually useless.

If it’s been debunked, they’re keeping it to themselves because I’ve certainly never seen anything to disprove Necromancer isn’t bottom tier in damage. If someone wants to post what a proper Necro/Reaper rotation is or if you want to link your proof then so be it. But from very basic math it looks like the Necromancer’s overall DPS is 160% of their power a second when not considering things like Frost Bow and the like (assuming a 3min sample to account for Lich DPS). But again, that’s with me putting about 2mins of effort into figuring it out and not knowing the proper rotation.

I’m also very worried when the only things you can list for Necromancer utility is vulnerability, boon stripping, and chill. Rangers can do 2 of those things just as well if not better while providing significantly more utility and stronger DPS. The only time a Necromancer’s boonstripping would be more valuable than a Mesmers is if they design encounters specifically around casting 5+ boons every 30 – 45 seconds. Otherwise Mesmer wins just like now.

Now as for predicting future raid content from ANet given their poor delivery of PvE content up till this point is a waste of time. Their classes aren’t sufficiently diverse and their decision to drop the ‘holy trinity’ really limits their options. All we know is going into HOT the Necromancer is quite poor and the Reaper hasn’t gained enough from what we’ve seen to level the playing field. I’m not going to rest my hopes and dreams on Reaper viability on ANets ability to get PvE Raid content right.

As someone pointed out. If they do intend to require people to split their forces down to teams of 2 and 3 then necro really is screwed. Makes more sense to break into teams where each member must bring vital team buffs since they only have that small subset to rely on.

This whole topic is about what the necro needs to be able to wanted in dungeons/raids. And the answer is obvious, either God Tier DPS to make people not care about their lack of team utility, or they need some unique team utilities to bring to the table.

Atherakhia.4086:

Lily.1935:

Atherakhia.4086:

We’ve also seen raids where people all pile onto a single spot in raids in other games.

But even if we are to assume groups need to split up, they’ll likely still be split up into small camps of people as opposed to lone players each standing outside of range of one another. In this situation you make Necromancers even less useful because now the raid needs multiples of the same classes that provide more utility at the expense of raw DPS.

Necromancers have no utility AND low damage. Short of there being some niche encounter that is specifically designed to align with the limited utility the class does provide, things aren’t likely to be any better in HOT. Certainly not for those who choose to play Necro over Reaper.

except we don’t have low damage. That’s a myth which has been busted multiple times. Our burst is low, yes this is true but our sustained damage is extremely good. And, not only that Vulnerability far more valuable to a party than might is in terms of providing damage. This is just a fact we can show this with the mathematics.

The reaper can stack vulnerability like no other profession I’ve seen. And actually sustain it. Not even my engineer does that well in stacking it or as quickly. Will Scrapper be able to stack it just as well as reaper? That is yet to be scene. The answer to that is maybe.

However, the necromancer has more than just vulnerability they can use. They also have some of the most potent boon stripping in the game. Which only the mesmer compares to in that regard.

In raids we are expected to use all of our tools and all of our mechanics. So I fully expect to have to use skills like “Nothing can save you” in PvE. You also have to remember that Chill actually causes the defiance bar to degenerate. That is absolutely huge! Thats going to be a major factor against bosses who might have quick regenerating and/or heard to break defiance. And considering that the reaper can both apply a whole bunch of chill and sustain it on their own while at the same time dishing out a heap of damage and being capable of surviving a boss’s focus fire while doing it, I see major value in the necromancer.

And also, unless you’re planning to run something like, 5 phalanx warriors in your raid my point stills stands. And if you are actually planning that I’d say you’re silly and wasting your time.

PS: Pre-buffing will be virtually useless.

If it’s been debunked, they’re keeping it to themselves because I’ve certainly never seen anything to disprove Necromancer isn’t bottom tier in damage. If someone wants to post what a proper Necro/Reaper rotation is or if you want to link your proof then so be it. But from very basic math it looks like the Necromancer’s overall DPS is 160% of their power a second when not considering things like Frost Bow and the like (assuming a 3min sample to account for Lich DPS). But again, that’s with me putting about 2mins of effort into figuring it out and not knowing the proper rotation.

I’m also very worried when the only things you can list for Necromancer utility is vulnerability, boon stripping, and chill. Rangers can do 2 of those things just as well if not better while providing significantly more utility and stronger DPS. The only time a Necromancer’s boonstripping would be more valuable than a Mesmers is if they design encounters specifically around casting 5+ boons every 30 – 45 seconds. Otherwise Mesmer wins just like now.

Now as for predicting future raid content from ANet given their poor delivery of PvE content up till this point is a waste of time. Their classes aren’t sufficiently diverse and their decision to drop the ‘holy trinity’ really limits their options. All we know is going into HOT the Necromancer is quite poor and the Reaper hasn’t gained enough from what we’ve seen to level the playing field. I’m not going to rest my hopes and dreams on Reaper viability on ANets ability to get PvE Raid content right.

I couldn’t touch my necromancer’s DPS with my ranger. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, which is possible. But I’ve followed the rotation to a T and it just doesn’t even come close to the necromancer’s in a long fight. Combine with that the ranger is a million time squishier than a necromancer which makes it so they go down much easier. Even with the ranger’s vuln stacking its still about 3x slower than a reaper’s vuln stacking and doesn’t sustain nearly as well. Which I’ve had the fortune of testing both. And their chill? Lol! no… Necromancer does that better with the core profession let alone reaper.

When addressing boon stripping, I’m not looking at this in a vacuum. So a ranger can do 2 of these moderately well. Big deal, they can’t do the third. Its the unique combination that the reaper provides which makes them valuable not “How can I preform the same task using 2-5 other professions to fill the same exact role that one person could do for me by themselves” situation. Because the necromancer can do this all at once this is what makes them valuable. They don’t have to super dedicate themselves to one or the other they can use all three and it comes naturally to them.

And Ice bow? I hate to tell you this, but Ice bow 5 wont be enough to break the break bar on the boss. Also.. Enemies in Hot.. they dodge. Line casting is still a problem, but most people don’t know how to do that anyway which for people that don’t know how to line cast it makes the bow less valuable. You’ll just bring your ice bow. Be a sitting duck for a few seconds, half your attacks will get dodged and enemies will snipe you and you’ll die. At least that’s what should happen if you decide to dedicate almost 3 seconds of your time casting a single spell. And before you say “I’ll just take XY&Z!” let me remind you that you can’t actually have everything on your bar.

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

Lily.1935:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

I think you also need to add in your post this is the second time we’ve played against these mobs and mechanics, people still aren’t used to them. They big thing will be seeing how hard to overcome these mechanics will be after everyone is aware of them.

If people really think necro are ok and would vote for devs to do nothing about their current state then that is their loss. I’ll keep maining my guard and be just fine. I don’t get why people are trying to defend the black sheep of organized pve without thinking about ways they should be improved. Just keep holding the little light of hope.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

If people really think necro are ok and would vote for devs to do nothing about their current state then that is their loss. I’ll keep maining my guard and be just fine. I don’t get why people are trying to defend the black sheep of organized pve without thinking about ways they should be improved. Just keep holding the little light of hope.

Oh that’s not my argument. The core necromancer has allot of issues. The reaper however? Really good. Useful for raids? absolutely.

Yeah, shivers of dread, our adept traits, the selfish shouts, and grandmasters are all so great for PvE!

/s

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

I think you also need to add in your post this is the second time we’ve played against these mobs and mechanics, people still aren’t used to them. They big thing will be seeing how hard to overcome these mechanics will be after everyone is aware of them.

I got used to them in the first beta weekend. Why are you guys being so slow to adapt? If you guys can’t handle the mobs after 3 years of being conditioned and prepared for it, I have to say you never will be. Of course when doing fractals and dungeons I often make my group fight the bosses as intended and don’t use AI abuses like corner stacking. I’ve done it both ways and I know which one is faster. I also know which one is better for your actual skill in the game. If you guys actually played the game as intended you’d be able to handle the mobs. But people can’t handle them because they didn’t develop these skills they should have learned ahead of time.

Lily.1935:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

I think you also need to add in your post this is the second time we’ve played against these mobs and mechanics, people still aren’t used to them. They big thing will be seeing how hard to overcome these mechanics will be after everyone is aware of them.

I got used to them in the first beta weekend. Why are you guys being so slow to adapt? If you guys can’t handle the mobs after 3 years of being conditioned and prepared for it, I have to say you never will be. Of course when doing fractals and dungeons I often make my group fight the bosses as intended and don’t use AI abuses like corner stacking. I’ve done it both ways and I know which one is faster. I also know which one is better for your actual skill in the game. If you guys actually played the game as intended you’d be able to handle the mobs. But people can’t handle them because they didn’t develop these skills they should have learned ahead of time.

Whoooaa, calm down, let’s put some breaks on the hostility train before it crashes into Central flame station. We can both agree this games PvE has been extremely hand holding and forgiving up until what they’re trying to do with HoT. And then you get to dungeons which, while initially hard, people found ways to bug and make the content ridiculously easy, and now we have the menactric problems we do today.

What I’m saying is that, will HoT PvE and raid prevent this problem and help make all classes wanted for something? Or will we just see a doubling up of the dungeon meta with 4 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 thieves 2 guards? Or even 2 ele’s and 2 mesmers since Mesmer has the portal and alclarity now. Another thing to consider is how much more efficient wil the meta be compared to non-meta comps. And then factor in bugs and terrain abuse, it’s a lot of u know variables people still haven’t had time to figure out.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

I think you also need to add in your post this is the second time we’ve played against these mobs and mechanics, people still aren’t used to them. They big thing will be seeing how hard to overcome these mechanics will be after everyone is aware of them.

I got used to them in the first beta weekend. Why are you guys being so slow to adapt? If you guys can’t handle the mobs after 3 years of being conditioned and prepared for it, I have to say you never will be. Of course when doing fractals and dungeons I often make my group fight the bosses as intended and don’t use AI abuses like corner stacking. I’ve done it both ways and I know which one is faster. I also know which one is better for your actual skill in the game. If you guys actually played the game as intended you’d be able to handle the mobs. But people can’t handle them because they didn’t develop these skills they should have learned ahead of time.

Whoooaa, calm down, let’s put some breaks on the hostility train before it crashes into Central flame station. We can both agree this games PvE has been extremely hand holding and forgiving up until what they’re trying to do with HoT. And then you get to dungeons which, while initially hard, people found ways to bug and make the content ridiculously easy, and now we have the menactric problems we do today.

What I’m saying is that, will HoT PvE and raid prevent this problem and help make all classes wanted for something? Or will we just see a doubling up of the dungeon meta with 4 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 thieves 2 guards? Or even 2 ele’s and 2 mesmers since Mesmer has the portal and alclarity now. Another thing to consider is how much more efficient wil the meta be compared to non-meta comps. And then factor in bugs and terrain abuse, it’s a lot of u know variables people still haven’t had time to figure out.

I am calm. Sorry if that sounds hostile, its just truth though.

Will there be meta builds for raids? Yes, of course their will be. That is unavoidable. Will it be the dungeon meta? Absolutely not, the dungeon meta is build around bursting and is unsustainable in prolonged combat fights. Which is what I’ve been trying to say. The builds that are effective in dungeons will not have a place in Raids. And with these fights that are expected to last much longer this is the necromancer’s play ground. This is the necromancer’s territory. This is where we shine.

I’m not saying the necromancer will be meta for dungeons. by Grenth that wont happen without some major changes. I am saying that the necromancer has a solid chance in raids because of their value in a long fight due to the fact they are far better built for it than any other profession.

I don’t think you have any idea about how this game works on prolonged fights to be declaring current meta builds dead on arrival in raids.

Most of your healing/defenses come from water field blasting and use of reflects/aegis/protection, not gear stat choices. Surprisingly, all available to berzerker builds.

If anything changes, people will switch to Valkyrie/Cavalier. Still same offensive focus. Don’t expect PVT’s or celestial.

@Lily: You can argue (with reason) that we are too worried because of our past experiences that may or may not be applicable to raids, but you have to concede that your “perfect Reaper scenarios” are no better.

@Everyone: Look at scrapper’s hammer, it’s going to function at 100% capacity regardless if there is a defiance bar, while stripping it if it’s present. Chill’s effects are our support. It’s what’s allowing us to keep up with the enemy, it’s gaining us the time need to land our slow blows, it’s mitigating damage by reducing the foe DPS by delaying attack and helps buy time for the cooldowns to be up again. This is all valuable party support, and we are giving it up for generic defiance stripping that other professions are getting for free on top what they are already doing.

Don’t get me wrong, Reaper is a good and well designed specialization, but the chill DoT is trivializing its role by making it replaceable by any other defiance stripping effect/skill. Unless chill’s DoT greatly reduces defiance regeneration, allowing more breathing room to burst the bar, it’ not easy to justify a Reaper’s spot over more supportive professions.

Zenith.7301:

I don’t think you have any idea about how this game works on prolonged fights to be declaring current meta builds dead on arrival in raids.

Most of your healing/defenses come from water field blasting and use of reflects/aegis/protection, not gear stat choices. Surprisingly, all available to berzerker builds.

If anything changes, people will switch to Valkyrie/Cavalier. Still same offensive focus. Don’t expect PVT’s or celestial.

I’ve watched people bumble around with Meta builds. Both organized parties and pugs. XD So I have a great idea. “Experienced” players suck with them in a long fight. I know because i’ve watched them do it.

Charblaze.6958:

@Lily: You can argue (with reason) that we are too worried because of our past experiences that may or may not be applicable to raids, but you have to concede that your “perfect Reaper scenarios” are no better.

@Everyone: Look at scrapper’s hammer, it’s going to function at 100% capacity regardless if there is a defiance bar, while stripping it if it’s present. Chill’s effects are our support. It’s what’s allowing us to keep up with the enemy, it’s gaining us the time need to land our slow blows, it’s mitigating damage by reducing the foe DPS by delaying attack and helps buy time for the cooldowns to be up again. This is all valuable party support, and we are giving it up for generic defiance stripping that other professions are getting for free on top what they are already doing.

Don’t get me wrong, Reaper is a good and well designed specialization, but the chill DoT is trivializing its role by making it replaceable by any other defiance stripping effect/skill. Unless chill’s DoT greatly reduces defiance regeneration, allowing more breathing room to burst the bar, it’ not easy to justify a Reaper’s spot over more supportive professions.

I’m not talking about a 100% perfect scenario. Thats another point I’ve been arguing against. That the meta builds are often run as perfect scenarios and believed that they are even when they’re not. I’m talking about chaos. In a chaotic situation I can keep up 25 stacks of might and vulnerability at all times, I can keep myself at full health, I can maintain perma chill. I can boon strip without a problem. I’ve done the testing in the beta. I ran fractals and dungeons on my reaper. I’ve run organized events. I did it specifically to test their usefulness in groups. And its astounding! We are absolutely amazing. Extremely valuable.

Lily.1935:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

I think you also need to add in your post this is the second time we’ve played against these mobs and mechanics, people still aren’t used to them. They big thing will be seeing how hard to overcome these mechanics will be after everyone is aware of them.

I got used to them in the first beta weekend. Why are you guys being so slow to adapt? If you guys can’t handle the mobs after 3 years of being conditioned and prepared for it, I have to say you never will be. Of course when doing fractals and dungeons I often make my group fight the bosses as intended and don’t use AI abuses like corner stacking. I’ve done it both ways and I know which one is faster. I also know which one is better for your actual skill in the game. If you guys actually played the game as intended you’d be able to handle the mobs. But people can’t handle them because they didn’t develop these skills they should have learned ahead of time.

Whoooaa, calm down, let’s put some breaks on the hostility train before it crashes into Central flame station. We can both agree this games PvE has been extremely hand holding and forgiving up until what they’re trying to do with HoT. And then you get to dungeons which, while initially hard, people found ways to bug and make the content ridiculously easy, and now we have the menactric problems we do today.

What I’m saying is that, will HoT PvE and raid prevent this problem and help make all classes wanted for something? Or will we just see a doubling up of the dungeon meta with 4 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 thieves 2 guards? Or even 2 ele’s and 2 mesmers since Mesmer has the portal and alclarity now. Another thing to consider is how much more efficient wil the meta be compared to non-meta comps. And then factor in bugs and terrain abuse, it’s a lot of u know variables people still haven’t had time to figure out.

I am calm. Sorry if that sounds hostile, its just truth though.

Will there be meta builds for raids? Yes, of course their will be. That is unavoidable. Will it be the dungeon meta? Absolutely not, the dungeon meta is build around bursting and is unsustainable in prolonged combat fights. Which is what I’ve been trying to say. The builds that are effective in dungeons will not have a place in Raids. And with these fights that are expected to last much longer this is the necromancer’s play ground. This is the necromancer’s territory. This is where we shine.

I’m not saying the necromancer will be meta for dungeons. by Grenth that wont happen without some major changes. I am saying that the necromancer has a solid chance in raids because of their value in a long fight due to the fact they are far better built for it than any other profession.

It is a possible chance but we’ll just have to see. We might also run into the problem of the fact that with 10 people, our longer sustain in fights might not be needed with everyone healing each other. Though admittedly, I do think we’re one of the best medic classes in the game with transfusion.

Rising Dusk.2408:

spoj.9672:

This single poor design decision could seriously prevent me from enjoying the game. Thats how serious it is to me.

I really… Don’t agree with you, honestly.

Blind not working on vets that have a break bar sounds great to me. Why does it sound great to me? Because in my opinion, blind trivializes trash encounters, and having some trash that’s immune to it is awesome in my opinion. The same applying to Weakness, Slow, and Chill all seems fine to me as well because they trivialize a certain aspect of an encounter to the point where the encounter is no longer fun for me. Dredge are annoying in that they’re immune to blind, but it also adds to their difficulty and forces you to adapt your approach to beating them, creating complexity in encounters by diversifying the roles you’re forced to fill.

I wouldn’t mind a significantly weakened version of a condition being in place when used on foes with breakbars, but surely you recognize that in order to make that balanced the effect would need to be so insignificant that it may as well not do anything at all. Bosses are calibrated around a specific movement mechanism so that they are constantly threatening players, being able to range and kite a melee boss enemy indefinitely through chill is impossibly bad design and trivializes the encounter; a boss needs to hit a player with some frequency to legitimize actual defensive support (something I know Anet wants to do). Furthermore, the cooldown reduction would need to be completely removed; there simply cannot be allowance for mechanics such as entirely bypassing a boss’s phase (like Legendary Grawl Shaman) simply because it takes too long for the skill to reload.

I appreciate that this means a lot to you and that you claim you’re not going to enjoy HoT at all if it goes through, but I seriously think you’re overreacting. Please note that my opinion disagreeing with yours doesn’t mean my reports won’t recognize your opinion fairly, I just don’t personally think it’s a big deal at all.

You play ele, warrior or guardian, right?
Why debuffs trivialize the game but staking buffs doesn’t?

For you, blind is not ok, but aegis is completely fine… God can’t believe this guy.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lily.1935:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Being anchored as an ele while using an ice isn’t a big deal if your guardian knows what he is doing. Aegis isnt something we are suppose to just spam. Aegis allows people to not break their dps chains. Coupled with quickness from guards, you get that off really quick as well.

except there are enemies that’ll stealth interrupt you, one shot you and put pulsing aoes at your feat all at once. Mind you their attack isn’t actually a one shot. Its only a one shot to people who glass armor. So blocking a single attack to try and “Save” you isn’t going to cut it. Being Anchored in Normal PvE doesn’t get you killed normally. In HoT I’ve seen that this isn’t the case at all. I played in low pop maps for HoT and even high pop maps. When you get to around 6-10 people in an event, people drop. Like flies. especially people who don’t move and try to use ice bow. Its kinda funny watching about 7 people all get killed before my eyes while I was playing a reaper and I’m just like “Wha’d up.” and surviving quite well against the same mobs that killed them. Note that those mobs are the easy part and the raids are designed to be much harder. If it is how I expect it to be people are in for a rude awakening.

I think you also need to add in your post this is the second time we’ve played against these mobs and mechanics, people still aren’t used to them. They big thing will be seeing how hard to overcome these mechanics will be after everyone is aware of them.

I got used to them in the first beta weekend. Why are you guys being so slow to adapt? If you guys can’t handle the mobs after 3 years of being conditioned and prepared for it, I have to say you never will be. Of course when doing fractals and dungeons I often make my group fight the bosses as intended and don’t use AI abuses like corner stacking. I’ve done it both ways and I know which one is faster. I also know which one is better for your actual skill in the game. If you guys actually played the game as intended you’d be able to handle the mobs. But people can’t handle them because they didn’t develop these skills they should have learned ahead of time.

Whoooaa, calm down, let’s put some breaks on the hostility train before it crashes into Central flame station. We can both agree this games PvE has been extremely hand holding and forgiving up until what they’re trying to do with HoT. And then you get to dungeons which, while initially hard, people found ways to bug and make the content ridiculously easy, and now we have the menactric problems we do today.

What I’m saying is that, will HoT PvE and raid prevent this problem and help make all classes wanted for something? Or will we just see a doubling up of the dungeon meta with 4 ele’s, 2 warriors, 2 thieves 2 guards? Or even 2 ele’s and 2 mesmers since Mesmer has the portal and alclarity now. Another thing to consider is how much more efficient wil the meta be compared to non-meta comps. And then factor in bugs and terrain abuse, it’s a lot of u know variables people still haven’t had time to figure out.

I am calm. Sorry if that sounds hostile, its just truth though.

Will there be meta builds for raids? Yes, of course their will be. That is unavoidable. Will it be the dungeon meta? Absolutely not, the dungeon meta is build around bursting and is unsustainable in prolonged combat fights. Which is what I’ve been trying to say. The builds that are effective in dungeons will not have a place in Raids. And with these fights that are expected to last much longer this is the necromancer’s play ground. This is the necromancer’s territory. This is where we shine.

I’m not saying the necromancer will be meta for dungeons. by Grenth that wont happen without some major changes. I am saying that the necromancer has a solid chance in raids because of their value in a long fight due to the fact they are far better built for it than any other profession.

It is a possible chance but we’ll just have to see. We might also run into the problem of the fact that with 10 people, our longer sustain in fights might not be needed with everyone healing each other. Though admittedly, I do think we’re one of the best medic classes in the game with transfusion.

I actually have a transfusion reaper’s onslaught build I want to try out once HoT comes out. With that recharge we should be able to pull a tone of people out of a hot spot pretty frequently and easily. Don’t know if it’ll be effective or not but thats what testing it in a real environment will tell us.

Lily.1935:

I’m not talking about a 100% perfect scenario. Thats another point I’ve been arguing against. That the meta builds are often run as perfect scenarios and believed that they are even when they’re not. I’m talking about chaos. In a chaotic situation I can keep up 25 stacks of might and vulnerability at all times, I can keep myself at full health, I can maintain perma chill. I can boon strip without a problem. I’ve done the testing in the beta. I ran fractals and dungeons on my reaper. I’ve run organized events. I did it specifically to test their usefulness in groups. And its astounding! We are absolutely amazing. Extremely valuable.

There is some truth in what you say, with the reaper able to do what you say. ANd we are astoundingly good at that. But we are not able to merge into a group. All of this goes to nought only for one reason : If you play in a party you have to do your share of teamwork. Being a lone wolf may be super awesome for solo content but fall short as soon as you are in a party.

Everybody here can see that there is a clear inegality between the value of the different field. Let’s admit it, there is no field that can beat the fire field when it come to offence power. There is no field that beat the water field when it come to defensive power as well. The necromancer got none of them. The necromancer is stuck with the poison field, dark field and light field which effect (on top of their utilities) are totally negligible in PvE. The necromancer is also stuck by unreliable combo finisher.

In a groupe you’ll always be judged by what you can do for your party and how well you will perform with your teammate. A group have to work as a whole, you just can rely on a lone wolf.

Anet’s balance of profession (and elite spec) is very good for sPvP but, they tend to hurt some professions by the restriction they put on PvE and by the fact that they don’t foresee how some skill will perform in a highly dangerous environment (ex : Gyro will most likely only be used with the fact in mind that they will be destroyed instantly).

What we absolutely need Anet to do is to put our field on the same level as the fire field or the water field. We need Anet to make those field wanted and this is here that we will become valuable for the group. The necromancer don’t need heavy change or whatever, it only need that it’s tools gain enough value in the PvE environment so that the necromancer itself become a valuable asset for a party. And from what we could see at the moment, this is not the case.

I’m saying it again, the necromancer do not need to solo the content, he need to be valuable for a party. No party will take a necromancer because he can put 25 stack of vulnerability regardless of it’s team mate. This thing have no value for the party simply because there is no teamwork in it.

NB.: I would also like you to consider the fact that Anet introduce something they call the break bar. The Break bar is meant to weaken boss in a way that it garantee a dps window of a few second. We could say that It’s basically a tool designed for the current meta.

Dadnir.5038:

Lily.1935:

I’m not talking about a 100% perfect scenario. Thats another point I’ve been arguing against. That the meta builds are often run as perfect scenarios and believed that they are even when they’re not. I’m talking about chaos. In a chaotic situation I can keep up 25 stacks of might and vulnerability at all times, I can keep myself at full health, I can maintain perma chill. I can boon strip without a problem. I’ve done the testing in the beta. I ran fractals and dungeons on my reaper. I’ve run organized events. I did it specifically to test their usefulness in groups. And its astounding! We are absolutely amazing. Extremely valuable.

There is some truth in what you say, with the reaper able to do what you say. ANd we are astoundingly good at that. But we are not able to merge into a group. All of this goes to nought only for one reason : If you play in a party you have to do your share of teamwork. Being a lone wolf may be super awesome for solo content but fall short as soon as you are in a party.

Everybody here can see that there is a clear inegality between the value of the different field. Let’s admit it, there is no field that can beat the fire field when it come to offence power. There is no field that beat the water field when it come to defensive power as well. The necromancer got none of them. The necromancer is stuck with the poison field, dark field and light field which effect (on top of their utilities) are totally negligible in PvE. The necromancer is also stuck by unreliable combo finisher.

In a groupe you’ll always be judged by what you can do for your party and how well you will perform with your teammate. A group have to work as a whole, you just can rely on a lone wolf.

Anet’s balance of profession (and elite spec) is very good for sPvP but, they tend to hurt some professions by the restriction they put on PvE and by the fact that they don’t foresee how some skill will perform in a highly dangerous environment (ex : Gyro will most likely only be used with the fact in mind that they will be destroyed instantly).

What we absolutely need Anet to do is to put our field on the same level as the fire field or the water field. We need Anet to make those field wanted and this is here that we will become valuable for the group. The necromancer don’t need heavy change or whatever, it only need that it’s tools gain enough value in the PvE environment so that the necromancer itself become a valuable asset for a party. And from what we could see at the moment, this is not the case.

I’m saying it again, the necromancer do not need to solo the content, he need to be valuable for a party. No party will take a necromancer because he can put 25 stack of vulnerability regardless of it’s team mate. This thing have no value for the party simply because there is no teamwork in it.

NB.: I would also like you to consider the fact that Anet introduce something they call the break bar. The Break bar is meant to weaken boss in a way that it garantee a dps window of a few second. We could say that It’s basically a tool designed for the current meta.

Well, you got a few things wrong here. First, the fire field isn’t the best for damage. Its good, but when you compare it to a dark field the raw damage output from. Now the fire field only wins in blast finishers. When it comes to leaps even, Light field wins this one. But when compared projectile finishers or whirl the dark field wins out with higher raw damage. Lighting field also has more utility in both those categories as well. Its just people under value other types of finishers and over value blast finishers.

Water field isn’t the best defensive field either. And something I’ve explained over and over again, reaction will always play second fiddle to pro-action. Which actually makes Ice fields, Poison fields, dark fields and smoke fields are superior to it in terms of defense. Water field is the best at healing. Nothing else. But that’s not a defense. Its a reaction to damage. It doesn’t reduce or stop damage. Poison Fields, ice fields and dark fields actually provide proactive defense while water does not. You gain no benifit from blasting a water field at full health. You do gain a huge benefit from blasting the other fields or leaping or what have you. Pro-action > reaction. Blind and weakness are extremely valuable in challenging content that require the use of your abilities.

You’re underestimating the value of other fields outside of what the “Meta” told you is best and its not even true. I don’t know who invented this insane concept but its just false.

… They don’t need to put the other fields on the “Same level” as water and fire. They’re better! They’re straight up better. They provide more damage, higher active defenses and control! Something that fire and water fields seriously lack. Fire and water have their uses, but they’re over rated.

Lily.1935:

Dadnir.5038:

Lily.1935:

I’m not talking about a 100% perfect scenario. Thats another point I’ve been arguing against. That the meta builds are often run as perfect scenarios and believed that they are even when they’re not. I’m talking about chaos. In a chaotic situation I can keep up 25 stacks of might and vulnerability at all times, I can keep myself at full health, I can maintain perma chill. I can boon strip without a problem. I’ve done the testing in the beta. I ran fractals and dungeons on my reaper. I’ve run organized events. I did it specifically to test their usefulness in groups. And its astounding! We are absolutely amazing. Extremely valuable.

There is some truth in what you say, with the reaper able to do what you say. ANd we are astoundingly good at that. But we are not able to merge into a group. All of this goes to nought only for one reason : If you play in a party you have to do your share of teamwork. Being a lone wolf may be super awesome for solo content but fall short as soon as you are in a party.

Everybody here can see that there is a clear inegality between the value of the different field. Let’s admit it, there is no field that can beat the fire field when it come to offence power. There is no field that beat the water field when it come to defensive power as well. The necromancer got none of them. The necromancer is stuck with the poison field, dark field and light field which effect (on top of their utilities) are totally negligible in PvE. The necromancer is also stuck by unreliable combo finisher.

In a groupe you’ll always be judged by what you can do for your party and how well you will perform with your teammate. A group have to work as a whole, you just can rely on a lone wolf.

Anet’s balance of profession (and elite spec) is very good for sPvP but, they tend to hurt some professions by the restriction they put on PvE and by the fact that they don’t foresee how some skill will perform in a highly dangerous environment (ex : Gyro will most likely only be used with the fact in mind that they will be destroyed instantly).

What we absolutely need Anet to do is to put our field on the same level as the fire field or the water field. We need Anet to make those field wanted and this is here that we will become valuable for the group. The necromancer don’t need heavy change or whatever, it only need that it’s tools gain enough value in the PvE environment so that the necromancer itself become a valuable asset for a party. And from what we could see at the moment, this is not the case.

I’m saying it again, the necromancer do not need to solo the content, he need to be valuable for a party. No party will take a necromancer because he can put 25 stack of vulnerability regardless of it’s team mate. This thing have no value for the party simply because there is no teamwork in it.

NB.: I would also like you to consider the fact that Anet introduce something they call the break bar. The Break bar is meant to weaken boss in a way that it garantee a dps window of a few second. We could say that It’s basically a tool designed for the current meta.

Well, you got a few things wrong here. First, the fire field isn’t the best for damage. Its good, but when you compare it to a dark field the raw damage output from. Now the fire field only wins in blast finishers. When it comes to leaps even, Light field wins this one. But when compared projectile finishers or whirl the dark field wins out with higher raw damage. Lighting field also has more utility in both those categories as well. Its just people under value other types of finishers and over value blast finishers.

Water field isn’t the best defensive field either. And something I’ve explained over and over again, reaction will always play second fiddle to pro-action. Which actually makes Ice fields, Poison fields, dark fields and smoke fields are superior to it in terms of defense. Water field is the best at healing. Nothing else. But that’s not a defense. Its a reaction to damage. It doesn’t reduce or stop damage. Poison Fields, ice fields and dark fields actually provide proactive defense while water does not. You gain no benifit from blasting a water field at full health. You do gain a huge benefit from blasting the other fields or leaping or what have you. Pro-action > reaction. Blind and weakness are extremely valuable in challenging content that require the use of your abilities.

You’re underestimating the value of other fields outside of what the “Meta” told you is best and its not even true. I don’t know who invented this insane concept but its just false.

… They don’t need to put the other fields on the “Same level” as water and fire. They’re better! They’re straight up better. They provide more damage, higher active defenses and control! Something that fire and water fields seriously lack. Fire and water have their uses, but they’re over rated.

Two lightning hammers in a water field gives you both proactive and reactive defenses. (not that any of your proactive field combos work on bosses anyway)

GG.

Quarktastic.1027:

Two lightning hammers in a water field gives you both proactive and reactive defenses. (not that any of your proactive field combos work on bosses anyway)

GG.

Fields don’t stack. Also blind reduced the break bar last I checked, weakness still reduces their damage, frost armor gives you a passive 10% damage reduction, and stealth prevents you from getting focus fired by the boss.

GG.

Lily.1935:

Quarktastic.1027:

Two lightning hammers in a water field gives you both proactive and reactive defenses. (not that any of your proactive field combos work on bosses anyway)

GG.

Fields don’t stack. Also blind reduced the break bar last I checked, weakness still reduces their damage, frost armor gives you a passive 10% damage reduction, and stealth prevents you from getting focus fired by the boss.

GG.

I know fields don’t stack, but blast finishers do.

Do you even lightning hammer?

Blind reduces break bars, but so does other soft CC that’s more readily available (like cripple). Weakness doesn’t reduce the effectiveness of critical hits, and only lasts 50% as long on bosses. Blasting a water field heals for more than that 3 seconds of 10% damage reduction will prevent.

I’m not saying other fields aren’t useful, but in the current meta, spamming blast finishers in a water field is basically like turning on god mode.

vicious.5683:

You play ele, warrior or guardian, right?
Why debuffs trivialize the game but staking buffs doesn’t?

For you, blind is not ok, but aegis is completely fine… God can’t believe this guy.

I’ve played a Necromancer for thousands of hours and it’s my main. Did you just read this one post of mine and decide that because it disagrees with you I must main <INSERT CLASS HERE> that does things differently?

P.S. Buffs don’t trivialize encounters because they’re already balanced around their uptimes and application sources against the rare boon strip. Conditions are designed to be more ubiquitous than boons, and that’s why condition clears are everywhere on every class’s skills. Aegis is vastly inferior to blind on bosses because blind can be so easily applied. Weakness is incredibly easy to maintain compared to protection, especially if someone uses a poison field and anyone uses projectiles (or the encounter forces you to split up from allies). The only exception is Slow vs. Quickness, but even in that case it’s easy to tell why Slow is vastly superior to Quickness when you factor in defensive cooldowns and endurance regeneration. Note that none of this is considering the (now-nerfed) Heat Sync which was overperforming.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Aegis is vastly inferior to blind on bosses because blind can be so easily applied.

I find it difficult to take you seriously after reading this.

I think it’d be a better design to allow them to work, but at a much reduced potency. It’s not like special rules haven’t existed before. Having boons works at full capacity while half the rebuffs in the game do nothing just looks lazy to me, and can be a real downer for playing a debuffer. Doesn’t even have to be much.
- Weakness reduces boss damage by 10%.
- Chill, slower by 20% and slightly increases time between some harder hitting skills (less of an issue since we rely on animations and not UI timers usually in this game).
- Cripple, slower by 10%.
- Slow, bosses attack 10% slower.
- Blind 10% chance to miss with a basic attack, doesn’t affect mechanic or powerful attacks.

Essentially the same things but less potent on bosses, but at least the skills are still useful. There is absolutely no reason, even if you argue boons are weaker, that all boons should be fair game but practically none of the conditions do.

That said. I personally still feel like Quickness is still too potent as a boon. (And by extension, Slow). I think both would be better off at 25% (access could be adjusted considering new values).

~ Just opinions.

Quarktastic.1027:

Lily.1935:

Quarktastic.1027:

Two lightning hammers in a water field gives you both proactive and reactive defenses. (not that any of your proactive field combos work on bosses anyway)

GG.

Fields don’t stack. Also blind reduced the break bar last I checked, weakness still reduces their damage, frost armor gives you a passive 10% damage reduction, and stealth prevents you from getting focus fired by the boss.

GG.

I know fields don’t stack, but blast finishers do.

Do you even lightning hammer?

Blind reduces break bars, but so does other soft CC that’s more readily available (like cripple). Weakness doesn’t reduce the effectiveness of critical hits, and only lasts 50% as long on bosses. Blasting a water field heals for more than that 3 seconds of 10% damage reduction will prevent.

I’m not saying other fields aren’t useful, but in the current meta, spamming blast finishers in a water field is basically like turning on god mode.

So you’re double blasting water? That isn’t both proactive and reactive. That’s just reactive.

Healing will always be weaker than damage mitigation. This is just a fact. We know this to be true, I can prove it in ever single RPG ever mad. Thats why heals have to heal for so much. Aegis blocking a 5k attack is better than healing after the fact for 5k, blind causing an attack to miss is the same, weakness reducing the damage of all outgoing attacks are more valuable.