Guild Wars 2

Xom.9264:

Look at it this way, if a necro takes a skilled player to do well. What would a skilled player do with a stronger class….

I think we need to be clear that there are two possibilities here:

1. Class A is stronger than Class B. That is, if you have the same amount of skill, time, equipment and play Class A, you will always dominate someone just like you playing Class B.

2. Class A is built in such a way that there is a much wider range between poor, average, and good players than Class B. In this case, Class B will dominate Class A in the forums. An average player will not be very powerful with Class A, but will be almost as powerful as the best on Class B.

You see this argument all the time. Point #1 is roughly equivalent to talking about the mean power of the class, while Point #2 is roughly equivalent to talking about the standard deviation.

Both points should be roughly balanced for each class or you’ll have problems.

Some would argue that Necros are a below-average class in the #1 meaning: it’s pretty much less powerful in all aspects. Some would argue that Necros have way too wide of a range of possibilities: if you’re really good it’s incredible but if you’re average it’s not so great. Some would argue that it’s an issue with one build option (minions) being pretty badly messed up and there are those who believe that the class is built around that option, so it’s a bad rap based on a particular build.

All of this takes place in a multi-dimensional comparison, because you then have to compare SPvP, tPvP, WvW, and PvE, and within each of those categories you can break it down into solo (roamer), group, and other styles of play.

Some try to say that Necros are more buggy than other professions. All it takes it reading other forums (except the fair-haired Warrior and Guardian forums) to see that’s not true at all. Some say that DS is a last-minute change that has seriously rough edges, and that’s true.

Unfortunately, the devs have not seen the wisdom of laying out a serious statement. If they said straight up, “Hey, there are some very deep issues with minion AI that for obscure reasons don’t affect pets the same way and we continue to hunt it down. And the DS interface will definitely be changed to match Plague/Lich: it’s a leftover of early beta where DS was your downed state. We also plan on doing a sweep of the Necro trait lines since that was also affected by the late-in-the-game change of DS from a downed state to a form. Please be patient.” Wow, that’d go a long way. Unfortunately, they’ve chasen to be mystical/humorour in a Zen-ish way, which flopped with the community and which came across as flippant and uncaring.

As I’ve said before: when I look at other forums (other than Warrior and Guardian) and play other professions, they all have problems, they all perceive that they’re worse off than most, they all feel that they don’t have realistic build options and are pigeonholed, they all feel that they’re buggy, etc. Not saying that we’re all basically in the same boat so we’re all okay! Fixes are needed, and several of them will be major efforts on ANet’s part.

I don’t believe that Necros are worse in the sense of Point #1. I think it can be argued that they have too large a range in the sense of Point #2. Fixing that would require both buffs (at the low end) and nerfs (at the high end), not just buffs. And as certain bugs are fixed (minion AI, for example) the power of many Necro players may shift dramatically, too.

Even if all the Necro bugged traits and mechanics get fixed, it’d still be a bottom tier class.
Come 14/12/12, Rangers won’t be the most terrible class. You Necros will.

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You people have the nerve to post L2P crap when you dont even play.

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

Just post your tpvp wins with necro already or admit what we already know… you people saying necro is fine dont tpvp.

Thanks.

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You people have the nerve to post L2P crap when you dont even play.

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

Just post your tpvp wins with necro already or admit what we already know… you people saying necro is fine dont tpvp.

Thanks.

Well sorry Mr. Perfect, we cant PvP like you. But when you center your argument around ONE aspect of the game, PvP, you’re gonna get just that. Perhaps Necros do have a balance problem, perhaps there’s a real reason why Necros are underplayed in PvP. But that’s PvP. Not everyone plays GW2 to PvP.

If you actually look at the complaints and rants on the Necro forums, they come from all aspects of the game – can’t get Gold in World Events, can’t kill opponents, can’t tank, can’t DPS in WvW, PvE + dungeons, PvP.

However, there is proof on the forums that we can actually do those things, except it’s a little harder to find a build that works right with which one can fight effectively in. This requires experience and thought. We are not a button mashing class.

As the OP has stated very clearly, the point of this thread was to address the recurring issue of unvalidated, unsupported exaggerations of the class that only serves as a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are trying to tell people to experiment more, to try out more builds and to have some fun creating a build that works for one’s self, instead of, for example, finding that minion AI doesnt work as promised and then concluding that the whole class is broken. We are not saying the class is “fine”, we recognise that there are problems and bugs that need to be addressed, some crippling like minion AI which will be resolved in future (ANet’s communication is another issue), but that’s not the only build available. If MM is the only thing you will ever play, fine, leave the class, but it still isnt “broken”?!

You have a valid point that Necros may not do well in PvP, but to conclude that the class is “not fine” based on ONE aspect of the game is flawed.

Xom.9264:

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

This, you know for a fact or is that your opinion?

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You people have the nerve to post L2P crap when you dont even play.

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

Just post your tpvp wins with necro already or admit what we already know… you people saying necro is fine dont tpvp.

Thanks.

I played necro pvp since the game came out and just recently leveled up a mesmer to 80. To me it was like night and day. Necro to me was so dull and boring. Nothing really fun with the class that really stood out. I will not go through the list of problems since so many have done so.

When I played pve with the necro I felt they were equal to any other class.

When I took up the mesmer I first read the forums to find out which was the worst weapon so I can start out with it. Ironic that the scepter/focus was what I chosen and am having a blast. Just beating the tar out of people in pvp with the setup. When I beat a necro I make sure I don’t finish them off if soloing cause I feel for them.

Mammoth.1975:

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You people have the nerve to post L2P crap when you dont even play.

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

Just post your tpvp wins with necro already or admit what we already know… you people saying necro is fine dont tpvp.

Thanks.

BEST POST EVER. hats off to you! +20

Mammoth’s screenshot is a testament to how solid we are. good job

Mammoth.1975:

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You people have the nerve to post L2P crap when you dont even play.

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

Just post your tpvp wins with necro already or admit what we already know… you people saying necro is fine dont tpvp.

Thanks.

Sooo 400 losses out of 1200 games when 50+% of your matches are vs pugs in free tournies, not good. So basically you lose to almost every real premade you face, got it.

Edit: yup, 35 QP confirms this. Keep racking up those free tournament wins vs pugs.

Can’t you only get QPs from paid tournaments?

Yeah, but Sprawl doesn’t care about things like “that is still 2/3 win-rate with a profession that supposedly stands no chance in PvP”.

Even if he was fighting pugs, that most likely means he was in a pug himself. What makes his somewhat skilled and the others all pathetic? Yeah, I’m not buying it.

Nothing will make them happy.

Actually, I pugged most of those. Compare to my ‘all games’ win rate. Unless you think I was stomping pugs in hotjoin too. In fact, half those QPs came from random groups too, ‘you know any decent mesmers?’ kind of stuff.

Not really the point though. Someone said ‘if you think necros are fine you don’t play tpvp’. Someone who I have never seen in a paid tournament, and only once in frees, where I was not terribly impressed.

90% of NA matches right now – guard/ele/mesmer/necro and either warrior or thief. Both mesmers get close point, everyone else goes mid, mesmers drop portal and run mid, both teams try to set up the kill on the other teams necro, whichever team succeeds wins the game.

I don’t remember ever losing to a team without a necro in paid tournaments, and as Sprawl with his zero QP so kindly pointed out, I lose plenty of paid tournaments Honestly, as harsh as it sounds, I’d suggest sucking up your tears and bracing yourselves for nerfs.

Mammoth.1975:

Actually, I pugged most of those. Compare to my ‘all games’ win rate. Unless you think I was stomping pugs in hotjoin too. In fact, half those QPs came from random groups too, ‘you know any decent mesmers?’ kind of stuff.

Not really the point though. Someone said ‘if you think necros are fine you don’t play tpvp’. Someone who I have never seen in a paid tournament, and only once in frees, where I was not terribly impressed.

90% of NA matches right now – guard/ele/mesmer/necro and either warrior or thief. Both mesmers get close point, everyone else goes mid, mesmers drop portal and run mid, both teams try to set up the kill on the other teams necro, whichever team succeeds wins the game.

I don’t remember ever losing to a team without a necro in paid tournaments, and as Sprawl with his zero QP so kindly pointed out, I lose plenty of paid tournaments Honestly, as harsh as it sounds, I’d suggest sucking up your tears and bracing yourselves for nerfs.

i have a similar win/loss rate in tournaments from true solo queue pugging (270 played 120 wins all solo queue, no voip). You are going beyond that a step and doing voip and server side grouping and queuing together and still have a bad win/loss ration when majority of free tourney games are vs pugs. pug v pug has no bearing on skill, and neither does win/loss rate until match making is added. There are people with decent QP that played when all the randoms like you were blowing their tickets and never faced any of the top teams. means nothing. And no I have no QP because, along with most other pvpers, I haven’t step foot in the mists since before QP was added because of how awful spvp is right now without match making, ladders, etc.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yeah, but Sprawl doesn’t care about things like “that is still 2/3 win-rate with a profession that supposedly stands no chance in PvP”.

Even if he was fighting pugs, that most likely means he was in a pug himself. What makes his somewhat skilled and the others all pathetic? Yeah, I’m not buying it.

map chat groups with voip should win 90% of matches in free tournaments since 90% of your matches are vs pugs the other 10% are bad premades who get stomped in paids and need to farm tickets, and occasionally top teams during off hours when paids arent popping.

tldr: you can play any class, no matter how bad, use voip and have a great win/loss rating from free tournaments, you could run 3 necros and 2 rangers and still win most of your matches lol.

Sprawl.3891:

And no I have no QP because, along with most other pvpers, I haven’t step foot in the mists since before QP was added because of how awful spvp is right now without match making, ladders, etc.

Keep making excuses.

Mammoth.1975:

Sprawl.3891:

And no I have no QP because, along with most other pvpers, I haven’t step foot in the mists since before QP was added because of how awful spvp is right now without match making, ladders, etc.

Keep making excuses.

excuses? do you even frequent the spvp forums? I guess all the na pvp is dead, no tournament pops during off hours, posts about teams possibly returning in february after the “pvp patch” are just my imagination. There are maybe 10 NA teams that pvp regularly. Guess you consider that a thriving pvp scene lol.

Well proves two things other then one person all the people claiming games balanced dont tpvp. Second thing is even in that case its a player that has not played other classes seriously.

If you have seen me in tpvp Mammoth its pugging because thats all I do in this game it has no rated games. A deadly glad in rated match system play just cant take it too seriously at this point. All I do really is tpvp pug time to time I beat most pug vs pugs and the only pug necro I know worth a kitten is Well Whale Well and half the time he is grouped. The other necros I see are just farming pugs in vent with double guardian team makeups and rez sig running typical condition builds.

I hardly play anymore and when I do its on my mes. Few days ago did get some silver chests pugging on my test fear power necro build. Got one gold chest beating a typical bad vent team but for the most part non-vent pugs get crushed by vent teams on the last map.

If you played me possible you would remember as I tend to troll high ranked vent teams in free tpvp with hacks comments and stuff like that to see them yell noob and get worked up, dont take it personal I just dont have any respect in the guild wars 2 pvp system and never will until matched ratings.

tpvp is just about dead I do see the same people over and over and i dont even play much lol…. this game needs balance and matching else it will always just be a small group farming each other thinking they are good at pvp.

Sprawl.3891:

excuses? do you even frequent the spvp forums? I guess all the na pvp is dead, no tournament pops during off hours, posts about teams possibly returning in february after the “pvp patch” are just my imagination. There are maybe 10 NA teams that pvp regularly. Guess you consider that a thriving pvp scene lol.

Err, too busy playing usually. I guess you’re too busy with forums to play?

Xom.9264:

Well proves two things other then one person all the people claiming games balanced dont tpvp. Second thing is even in that case its a player that has not played other classes seriously.

If you have seen me in tpvp Mammoth its pugging because thats all I do in this game it has no rated games. A deadly glad in rated match system play just cant take it too seriously at this point. All I do really is tpvp pug time to time I beat most pug vs pugs and the only pug necro I know worth a kitten is Well Whale Well and half the time he is grouped. The other necros I see are just farming pugs in vent with double guardian team makeups and rez sig running typical condition builds.

I hardly play anymore and when I do its on my mes. Few days ago did get some silver chests pugging on my test fear power necro build. Got one gold chest beating a typical bad vent team but for the most part non-vent pugs get crushed by vent teams on the last map.

If you played me possible you would remember as I tend to troll high ranked vent teams in free tpvp with hacks comments and stuff like that to see them yell noob and get worked up, dont take it personal I just dont have any respect in the guild wars 2 pvp system and never will until matched ratings.

Actually I remembered you because I always see you talking about how amazing you are on the forums and you played like kitten. Maybe you were having an off day.

Mammoth.1975:

Sprawl.3891:

excuses? do you even frequent the spvp forums? I guess all the na pvp is dead, no tournament pops during off hours, posts about teams possibly returning in february after the “pvp patch” are just my imagination. There are maybe 10 NA teams that pvp regularly. Guess you consider that a thriving pvp scene lol.

Err, too busy playing usually. I guess you’re too busy with forums to play?

you obviously have plenty of time to post in this thread, check out the spvp forum some time and youll realize that there’s not many people pvping seriously in this game. and why i laugh at your 35 QP. What teams did you beat to get those QP btw? oh right, other map chat pugs. mad skillz brah.

and no i dont think necros are broken, they just have a lot of bugs that need fixing, just wanted to step in this thread to say how pointless it is to post pvp screen shots as a reference of skill

also the fact you dont play other professions at all in tourney play makes me think even less of your skills and knowledge of balance.

Sprawl.3891:

Mammoth.1975:

Sprawl.3891:

excuses? do you even frequent the spvp forums? I guess all the na pvp is dead, no tournament pops during off hours, posts about teams possibly returning in february after the “pvp patch” are just my imagination. There are maybe 10 NA teams that pvp regularly. Guess you consider that a thriving pvp scene lol.

Err, too busy playing usually. I guess you’re too busy with forums to play?

you obviously have plenty of time to post in this thread, check out the spvp forum some time and youll realize that there’s not many people pvping seriously in this game. and why i laugh at your 35 QP. What teams did you beat to get those QP btw? oh right, other map chat pugs. mad skillz brah.

and no i dont think necros are broken, they just have a lot of bugs that need fixing, just wanted to step in this thread to say how pointless it is to post pvp screen shots as a reference of skill

also the fact you dont play other professions at all in tourney play makes me think even less of your skills and knowledge of balance.

Which teams did you beat again? Mad forum skills. I don’t even know why you’re so upset by the pic. Once again, it was posted on request. I know I’m not good

However, there are a couple of good necros posting here, saying necros are doing fine despite the bugs.

necros are fine despite the bugs. haters gonna hate, which means they should play another class and leave the forums alone.

totally logical thing to do.

Mammoth.1975:

Actually I remembered you because I always see you talking about how amazing you are on the forums and you played like kitten. Maybe you were having an off day.

Well been on my necro pugging tpvp that last few days test spec is working well have not lost a 1 v 1 other then to a mesmer. You beat me 1 v 1? I doubt it, likely I just got zerged by a vent team responding quickly as I soloed the bunker as a vent team should do. Have not even played that much only time I remember even facing a necro was one getting carried in a vent team on the last map.

Kept getting the bunker guardian almost dead and he would run in making it a 2 v 1. Was that you a Charr necro? If so lol, typical exactly what I would expect of a farm based pvp vent group braging about winning a 2 v 1 against a pug.

Give you toons name next time I see you we can duke it out.

Xom.9264:

Give you toons name next time I see you we can duke it out.

Sure, all my necros are named Draaz or some variant. I don’t know what makes you think 1v1 is relevant in any way but I’m happy to beat you up again if you want o.0

I play a level 80 necro fully geared in exotics. I just wanted to say from my view, things are going great and I’m having fun. In pve and pvp necros can do very well. In dungeons such as arah and fractals I find myself to be doing very good compared to the other classes (especially having that survivability factor). Even in some dungeons and pvp minions can be very helpful despite “O their AI is broken…” because honestly the AI isn’t that bad at all. I also have no major complaints for pvp. I don’t do tournys as often as I used too, but I still play every now and then. Played couple quick matches today and was able to rack up 300pts a game pretty easily without dieing ( I know it doesn’t mean much but its still something). However, necros do take a bit more skill to play and be good at compared to other classes. That’s why I think a lot of people complain and tend to say this class isn’t good. So my point is necros can be one of the best classes in the game as long as you know how to play them right. Despite minor bugs/issues (which every class has) I can say I’m glad to play a necromancer.

- Necromare

I agree with you very much OP, necro is a very strong class in all aspect of the game. I think the problem is that it got a very bad reputation during one point of the beta, and now this reputation stick to it. It was also very unfairly pushed further with that “lame” (was lame to me at least) necro have more than 100 bugs complain that was totally unfair in my opinion, because if those bug existed they were unimportant, and barely noticeable.

Now one thing is sure, and it was the case since the very beginning (dev said it countless time before release), this class is not a straight forward kind of class as is warrior for example. It need some subtlety and experimentation from the players, the players that aren’t in those kind of things probably miss all what the class is about, and is also probably one of the reason they are so many complains, because a lot of players are simply not in those kind of thing and completely miss this. But this is actually something very positive to the class, not everyone want to play bully kind of class, some do want some subtlety and look for this.

So in short if you don’t have a twisted mind don’t play a twisted class.

I have no main “class” although my thief is the most geared via dungeon sets and I have played him more than any other class. However, I am leveling each class to 80. About a month or two ago I got the Necro to 80, and gave up because Orr was killing him…conditionmancer and condi spreading.

Tried it again yesterday, vampire build via wells and I am loving it, I can take on 4 or 5 Risen in Orr without much problem… its fun.

I specced to be somewhat tanky or very self sufficient, however, I am not one of those kitten in this game that believe I am a tank, that I can hold aggro and soak up hits. However if I can stay in melee range a little longer and maybe have the boss focus on me a few extra seconds, then thats my role. But I will be dodging out and letting someone else take a few hits as well.

With that said, I tend not to fret over the nitty grittyness of a spec or ability unless it just doesn’t work. It all will be balanced in the end.

So from a player that really has no main class, I think Necros are fine. Conditionmancer was fun and OP to level up. Running d/d and d/wh now in Orr and I am just as OP. I will try my hand at a few dungeons, Im sure we’ll complete with minimal effort like usual. The point is, you have no idea how much damage an equal geared <insert other class> does compared to your necromancer. There is no damage meter. Relax. Just enjoy the friggin game. Your damage will never stay the same and your abilities will never stay the same, because the developers will buff and nerf it accordingly. So why bother worrying about something you cannot control?

Dont fret guys..

Oh wait, I forgot. Im not a pro-sPvP player like some of those guys in that interview a week or two ago. I dont know 100% of the ins and outs of every class and ability. My opinion and word mean nothing.

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

I’ve already mentioned this attitude once and I simply cannot understand it.

No professional athlete would stick with a losing team because they liked the uniforms or the cheerleaders. If they were good enough and had options, they’d move to a winning team or at least a team that clearly had the potential to win.

But the majority of complaints I’ve read about balance in MMO’s I’ve played come from folks who want to come across as being serious competitors, but who also insist on sticking with a particular class. (I’m assuming because the class emotionally appeals to them: they like the uniform and cheerleaders.)

The vast majority of players either: a) don’t care about serious competitive PvP, or b) play the profession that it takes to win.

If you’re serious about competitive PvP, you’re going to play several professions seriously, so you know what your opponent is thinking. You’ll also have several level 80’s because you know that MMO’s can be rebalanced with no notice and suddenly the class you’re currently playing is no longer competitive. A true competitor takes that in stride and shifts to their level 80 that got buffed to OP status.

Perhaps Necros aren’t great in tPvP. I’ll have to weigh your word against others who tPvP, because I don’t. But this thread is about a class being “broken”, not about tPvP.

Bellocchi.4593:

Even if all the Necro bugged traits and mechanics get fixed, it’d still be a bottom tier class.
Come 14/12/12, Rangers won’t be the most terrible class. You Necros will.

Note the “You Necros” and not “us Necros”.

This again makes my point that as the over-the-top whiners go far and wide saying, “Necros are broken!!!!!!” people who have no real experience with Necros will believe it. And repeat it.

95% of my time spent ingame is spent playing spvp matches/tournaments…

I love the necro, always have… being that its a much higher skill capped class then say thief or warrior makes it that much more enjoyable to play (at least for me)… and there are heaps of builds i have ran to somewhat perfect certain builds (bleed/epidemic to be exact)….

But the only major issue for me at least, is there is no reliable form of stability. Yes, DS has 3 seconds of stability… but a 30 point trait??? A 3 second stability every 10 seconds isnt reliable, and is extremely situational. If stability was a 20 point trait, and you could spec decrease cooldown time on DS as a 30 point trait, it would make it much better (and possibly a little overpowered)… but having to rely on say guardians to give me stability just doesnt cut it.

my $0.02

Druitt.7629:

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You’ll also have several level 80’s because you know that MMO’s can be rebalanced with no notice and suddenly the class you’re currently playing is no longer competitive. A true competitor takes that in stride and shifts to their level 80 that got buffed to OP status.

you’re wrong.

a TRUE competitor takes the changes in stride, and makes those changes WORK… takes the “competitiveness” to a whole new level, making things work that others cant.

and why couldnt this thread be about tpvp? the same things others whine about can be said for tpvp too dude.

VladimirLem.5894:

a TRUE competitor takes the changes in stride, and makes those changes WORK… takes the “competitiveness” to a whole new level, making things work that others cant.

and why couldnt this thread be about tpvp? the same things others whine about can be said for tpvp too dude.

I think we agree: serious competitors don’t whine in a class forum that “we’re broke, we’re broke, we’re useless!!!!!”. They adapt and move on. If that involves stepping up their Necro game or moving to a Warrior, that’s what they do.

I disagree about tPvP (or any other sub-area) dominating this thread, though. The thread is entitled “On necros being ‘broken’”. Not “On necros being hard in PvP”, and it’s a direct response to folks who spam the forum with “Necros is broken!!!!!” messages, which are: a) leading non-Necros to avoid trying the profession, b) leading non-Necros to shun Necro players in their groups, c) leading the devs to want to minimize their interaction with us in the forums, and d) forcing those who do choose to play Necros to wade through the whining to find useful information.

Someone is free to start a “Necros still need help in tPvP” or whatever topic they want, but that’s not this topic.

Mammoth.1975:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/29193/tourney_wins.jpg

So… You haven’t played enough other professions but you say that Necros are fine compared to the others.
It’s not about Necro being unplayable, it is about that he underperforms compared to other professions and that screenshot proved that you have no clue of how the global balance situation is but you still say that Necros are fine.
The funny things is that someone take this as a proof of your reliability.

I had been playing a ton of wvw lately. Few things I want to get into:

1) Escaping from 4 guys.

I know with 100% certainty. When my side was winning, and the enemies starts running, enemy necros always dies. They would put on death shrouds for a while. They had tons of hp so they can tank for a while. But they always end up dying in a chase. When you are being chased by like 4 guys, the difference between 15k hp and 30k hp is only 4 seconds vs 8 seconds. You die either way.

I am also a necros, but I cannot conclude the same thing because perhaps I suck. But by observing my enemy necros I can come to a more fair conclusion.

Think about it. When was the last time an enemy necro was chased by you and 3 other allies, and he/she escaped successfully? I bet very rarely. They can’t invisible. They can’t teleport. They can’t clone. Their snares are weak at best. Their movement speed are decent with swiftness, but nearly every other class have swiftness anyways so it isn’t really an advantage. Their healing are decent, but against 4 guys its never enough. Necros can remove all their conditions every 25 seconds with Consume Conditions, but that won’t save them.

All in all, necros just lack these special gadgets, that other professions have, to survive a chase.

On the other hand, I have seen many other professions escaping from 4 guys alive.

2) Damage

It seems to me the average damage per hit, of other professions, are easily over 4k. Many people hits me for like 8k a hit.

As a necro, the only “mobs” that I can hit for that kind of damage are rabbits.

3) Total inability to solo.

I find my necro loosing most 1v1 fights in wvw, and that’s a huge problem for me. As I said in point 1, necro sucks are running away. So every time I fight, I must be fully committed 100%. There won’t be any escape.

Even when I “ambushed” the enemy, so I get the first hits, I find myself losing. My damage to survivability ratio just seems to get constantly outclassed.

And even in those “rare” fights that I was winning, the enemy just runs away. How is that fair?

So in wvw, I find myself constantly looking for groups, since I am very weak solo. I can’t get anything done by myself.

4) Down skills are clearly weakest of all professions.

When downed, necros are the easiest class to kill. While other classes have cool stuffs like teleporting away, invisibility, knockback everyone, clones, etc, what do we have? Oh, single target fear. Good luck survive against 4 guys with their “haha u r dead!” balls, even when there are tons of allies around to help.

After talking about the bad, I will talk about the goods.

1) Awesome team buffs and healing.

I hasn’t played a Guardian so I can’t compare. But from my experience necros are awesome team support. Mark of Blood, Well of Blood and Transfusion gives allies tons of HP.

Spectral Wall gives good buffs. Well of Blood also gives retaliate with a burst finisher.

I was in a group of 4 or 5 guys, and we beat a force of 10 enemies because they couldn’t kill us. All the extra healing that I provided goes on top of my allies’ self healing, which makes them nearly indestructible.

And the bigger the group, the better the necro is. From my experience the class really shrines in big fights. And I feel that I was often the difference maker in those 15 vs 15 fights.

2) Good siege skills.

Marks, Poison Cloud and Flesh Wurm are very good siege skills. All of them can be casted on the walls. Marks and Poison Cloud will force the enemies to retreat from the walls. Flesh Wurms on the top of the walls are just annoying. They are great distraction for the defenders.

Spectral Grasp are great for pulling over-aggressive enemies off the walls.

Mix this with those good healing skills and buffs, necro is probably the best siege support class in wvw.

3) In group fights in wvw, necros are often ignored.

I said earlier that when running away, people would often go after the necro because they know he/she is 100% dead. This still holds true.

However during the stalemates of a fight, it is rare for the enemies to go after the necro.

Think about it from their point of view. You have this thief dashing out 4k to 8k damage a hit to you. And you have this mage class guy that doesn’t seem to be doing anything, who do you attack first? Obviously you try to take down the thief!

You have to remember that the enemy cannot see how much buffs and healing you are giving you allies, so most enemies consider you harmless during a stalemate. And unlike GW1 monks, you don’t look any different from other mages, so you don’t really stand out.

People are entitled to voice their opinion about the limited viability of the class and it is noticeable that there is a “cheer squad” seemingly trying to stop that happening.

It is true that everything IS NOT BROKEN but it is equally true that everything IS NOT RIGHT. We are pigeonholed into a narrow selection of builds and roles at the moment. These seem fine but outside of them we are pretty ordinary. While we have access to some great abilities, and that list makes us look fine, it is misleading because we can not meld more than 2 or 3 into any one viable build.

Stop with the all or nothing postures either way and we may actually get somewhere with the devs.

CHIPS.6018:

3) Total inability to solo.

I have to disagree with this one. I run a tanky support build with full shaman’s gear, and I rarely lose a 1v1 in WvW. My damage is pathetic and my bleeds mediocre, but with DS, decent heals, and 35k+ health (with WvW buffs), most enemies can’t put enough damage out to down me before I grind their health down. Against a bunker guardian or a well built tanky warrior, it’s usually a draw with both of us outhealing the other’s damage. Sure, I’m not bursting people down in 3 seconds, but that’s not what necro is about.

As for chasing, every necro has DS2, which, if it connects, is a teleport to your target as well as a slow with the chill. Not 100% reliable, but a good start.

Oldbugga.7029:

It is true that everything IS NOT BROKEN but it is equally true that everything IS NOT RIGHT. We are pigeonholed into a narrow selection of builds and roles at the moment.

I’d agree. This is a reasonable statement.

The next reasonable statement is that this is true for most professions. I have found the same complaints among Elementalists, Thieves, and Engineers. “We’ve got issues, other professions have it easier than us, we’re pigeonholed into a single viable build, our trait lines are organized wrong, our elite is the worst…” (The exceptions are Warriors and Guardians in general, and Mesmers in PvP.)

No one is “cheerleading” that Necromancers are perfect. Some of us are saying that people who claim we’re broken — UNIQUELY among all professions broken — are creating a lot of negative feedback problems that will overwhelm the class even if the devs suddenly make us perfect and OP. It’s happened in other games and will happen in this game if we insist on letting whiners (“we’re totally and uniquely BROKEN!!!!!”) dominate our forums.

I simply can’t understand how people will take opposition to over-the-top, unjustified ranting complaints as some kind of mindless opposition to critisicm of the class or mindless cheerleading.

Druitt.7629:

I agree heartily with this statement. Compared to Engineers, Necromancers are doing pretty well. Both are a bit buggy and incomplete compared to Warrior.

Mammoth.1975:

Xom.9264:

Give you toons name next time I see you we can duke it out.

Sure, all my necros are named Draaz or some variant. I don’t know what makes you think 1v1 is relevant in any way but I’m happy to beat you up again if you want o.0

Its about a relevant as kitten talking a pug that got to the last game pugging and lost a 2 v 1. Your condition necro would not beat my condition mes not that it matters, but it could beat the power necro build I was running that day… however the guardians on your team could not beat it was not even a build made to break guardians its was a specific build used to stomp other first round pugs with all the thiefs and mesmers and HB wars you see round one. Also I dont know a Draaz and I remember all the good necros I fight.

Druitt I play a few classes but if you want to talk about top level play this game has none, only farmers I’m a multiple season deadly glad from a massive pvp population where winning and only winning moves you up. GW2 is a joke atm regarding pvp population and high level play, I hope it gets better but it is what it is.

I have never been the one saying necro is totatly broken else I would not play it so much, it however has more broken skills and traits then anyclass. Im a min/max type so when I test things and see they dont work as stated its pisses me off thats probably the main issue I have with Necro the amount of time i did testing to discover how many things are just wrong. I expect higher quality and testing from game developers.

Said it a million times condition necro is fine but its real use it utility slots. Most my negativity comes from not really just the necro class but the fact we still dont have ranked arenas… need those so bad to shut up farmers and seperate the real deal from those with just a ton of time.

Again and I stated this clearly a few times, everyone here needs to try other classes seriously try them at least to gain a better perspective.

Kyskythyn.6471:

CHIPS.6018:

3) Total inability to solo.

I have to disagree with this one. I run a tanky support build with full shaman’s gear, and I rarely lose a 1v1 in WvW. My damage is pathetic and my bleeds mediocre, but with DS, decent heals, and 35k+ health (with WvW buffs), most enemies can’t put enough damage out to down me before I grind their health down. Against a bunker guardian or a well built tanky warrior, it’s usually a draw with both of us outhealing the other’s damage. Sure, I’m not bursting people down in 3 seconds, but that’s not what necro is about.

As for chasing, every necro has DS2, which, if it connects, is a teleport to your target as well as a slow with the chill. Not 100% reliable, but a good start.

You missed my point. When the necro wins, most enemies have all these gadgets to run away with. When the necro loses, he is dead 100% because he cannot escape. So even assuming a 50/50 win rate, the necro still loses because he cannot actually kill anyone solo in wvw. All he could do was force the enemy to retreat.

And as you said necro wasn’t meant to kill enemies in seconds. That’s true. But the longer it takes you to kill someone, the higher the chance that his allies would come. By then the necro is dead because, once again, he cannot run away.

It come down to risk vs benefits. When you solo as a necro, it is all risk and nearly zero benefits. Given the pros and cons, there is very little reason for a necromancer to solo. Their class just aren’t made for solo spec-ops.

ITT bad players blame class. MMO forum classic.

Sprawl.3891:

I have no QP because, along with most other pvpers, I haven’t step foot in the mists since before QP was added because of how awful spvp is right now without match making, ladders, etc.

So you haven’t step foot in the mist for ages BUT you talk about high level tpvp like you were living it daily?

Let me tell you the fotm group setup right now in EU paids: 2guardians + mesmer + necro + x ; being x most of the times ele. I don’t know about NA but some1 just said something similar is happening over there. Coincidence? No fricking way it is.

Do you know who is the main focus for EVERY group each time they face a group with a necro? That’s right, the enemy necro. People with even supposed to be OP classes like thief are being thrown out or are being made to reroll into necros in lots of groups to fit the actual meta. The “carried away” argument that has been stated in this thread is far away from being real, it’s a mere insult to loads of players probably way better than you are, a player that can’t even see how amazing a well played necro is right now in tpvp.

alright, after reading the whole kitten thing:

shenobix: please stop insulting people all the time with your: “stop to play” or “shut up” sentences. every one is not only free to play what he whants but also should be allowed to show his dissatisfaction with core mechanics not working properly/ at all.

i am playing necro and investet an considerable amount off time into it. guess what? i do not want to or have the time to “just” reroll whatever is flavour of the month. i will continue to write down my legal complaints about the things that bother me. no matter what YOU think how pink the world is.

next: so MM is broken. everyone should just check forums before rolling an necro… sure thing most people wont, and sure thing for most people DEMONS are a class defining mechanic they just suspect to work when rolling with an necro.

so in short:

NO, its not good as it is.
NO, i wont spend another 2-3 weeks off my life to roll sth else cause the guys that got my money cant fix there game.
and finally YES: i will continue to moan about it till they realise they need to change some things ASAP.

BlackKaiseR.8320

The “carried away” argument that has been stated in this thread is far away from being real, it’s a mere insult to loads of players probably way better than you are, a player that can’t even see how amazing a well played necro is right now in tpvp.

Can someone elaborate on how the necro is being used in these lineups? And possibly link to a build? I played an engineer and a condition thief before starting on my necro. I’m having some difficulty understanding what the role is in organized pvp (conditions, boon removal, tanking, what?). My main source of experimentation atm is hotjoin and that probably doesn’t help.

BlackKaiseR.8320:

Sprawl.3891:

I have no QP because, along with most other pvpers, I haven’t step foot in the mists since before QP was added because of how awful spvp is right now without match making, ladders, etc.

So you haven’t step foot in the mist for ages BUT you talk about high level tpvp like you were living it daily?

Let me tell you the fotm group setup right now in EU paids: 2guardians + mesmer + necro + x ; being x most of the times ele. I don’t know about NA but some1 just said something similar is happening over there. Coincidence? No fricking way it is.

Do you know who is the main focus for EVERY group each time they face a group with a necro? That’s right, the enemy necro. People with even supposed to be OP classes like thief are being thrown out or are being made to reroll into necros in lots of groups to fit the actual meta. The “carried away” argument that has been stated in this thread is far away from being real, it’s a mere insult to loads of players probably way better than you are, a player that can’t even see how amazing a well played necro is right now in tpvp.

read everything I post before you write something as dumb as that. Here’s what I said in this thread, on this page.

“and no i dont think necros are broken, they just have a lot of bugs that need fixing, just wanted to step in this thread to say how pointless it is to post pvp screen shots as a reference of skill”

L2read brah.

Mammoth.1975:

ITT bad players blame class. MMO forum classic.

ITT guy who only plays one class saying it’s fine without playing other classes and seeing that they do the same things, but better. MMO forum classic.

Slan.5496:

Can someone elaborate on how the necro is being used in these lineups? And possibly link to a build? I played an engineer and a condition thief before starting on my necro. I’m having some difficulty understanding what the role is in organized pvp (conditions, boon removal, tanking, what?). My main source of experimentation atm is hotjoin and that probably doesn’t help.

Eating guardians alive from range, big aoe damage on downed players, reviving from outside enemy aoe with signet of undeath.

This build covers the essentials, the rest is up to you:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.119.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.332.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.10.0.0

Sprawl.3891:

ITT guy who only plays one class saying it’s fine without playing other classes and seeing that they do the same things, but better. MMO forum classic.

You’re just embarrassing yourself dude. No one does what a necro does. If they did, people would run that class instead. Maybe you should let us all in on the meta changing secret mr ‘I haven’t been to the hotm in months’.

Xom.9264:

Still waiting for those screen shots showing all of you claiming Necro is ‘fine’ have actually done a fair amount of tpvp.

You people have the nerve to post L2P crap when you dont even play.

Regarding the argument of some top players on teams using necro, they are getting carried or have comps that kind of fit the class but another could class could fill the role with no problems and probably do better.

Just post your tpvp wins with necro already or admit what we already know… you people saying necro is fine dont tpvp.

Thanks.

I have participated in a very large amount of tPvP with Necro. My clan quit because tournaments and rankings aren’t in and it does no good to practice with broken classes and troll groups of mesmer/guardian in paids.

But they stuck around long enough for me to figure out Necro on a competitive level.

So what the hell do you want to know about Necro in tPvP? Do you want to know how extremely beneficial Necro is to anyone using conditions? Or how about how Necro can ground target rez up to 3 people at once… or keep permanent Chill on even the most tenacious conditions curing guardian/engi combo? Or would you like to know how a Necro built for support can also dance together enough burst to break bunkers and/or spike down roamers before they can pop their cool downs and get away?

What exactly is confusing you sir? Yes Minions, Siphon Health, and a couple Life Force generators don’t work right. One of those things should be fixed in the next patch. Everything else works just fine though. I can still keep massive stacks of conditions on the other team while turning all my ally’s conditions into boons, and at the same time offer support healing and chain chill/blind/cripple/poison…

So what exactly should we bust out the tiny violins for?

Mammoth.1975:

Slan.5496:

Can someone elaborate on how the necro is being used in these lineups? And possibly link to a build? I played an engineer and a condition thief before starting on my necro. I’m having some difficulty understanding what the role is in organized pvp (conditions, boon removal, tanking, what?). My main source of experimentation atm is hotjoin and that probably doesn’t help.

Eating guardians alive from range, big aoe damage on downed players, reviving from outside enemy aoe with signet of undeath.

This build covers the essentials, the rest is up to you:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.119.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.332.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.10.0.0

Sprawl.3891:

ITT guy who only plays one class saying it’s fine without playing other classes and seeing that they do the same things, but better. MMO forum classic.

You’re just embarrassing yourself dude. No one does what a necro does. If they did, people would run that class instead. Maybe you should let us all in on the meta changing secret mr ‘I haven’t been to the hotm in months’.

says the guy who pugs and only qps come from beating other pugs and has zero experience actually playing other classes. meta is necro for rez signet more than anything which Ian why they are first target many times. did you not listen to the spvp q and a session with the top players?