Guild Wars 2

So I’m currently leveling a Necro (37 as thread is created) and my 10 points went into Curses for the +20% bleed duration. I then went into Death magic for the faster cooldowns on Staff skills. I noticed that after a kill I spawn a jagged horror due to the Reanimator trait gained at 5 points into Death magic.

Upon the Jagged Horror spawning it genuinely dies in a matter of seconds, it’s health plummets to 0 so fast I don’t even manage to get into another fight.
Why on earth is this trait so bad? It has a 30 second cooldown aswell…
Even if it happened every kill (having 10+ spawned in an event) would still be pointless as they die so fast and don’t seem to do very much damage whatsoever.

Is there any way to buff these or is it just a really, really terrible trait?

I really wish it was replaced with something else. Maybe a stat boost of some kind. It’s a terrible trait.

death magic adept and master level minor traits both suck for any non MM necro… which makes the tree difficult to justify using on many builds (which sucks)

The Jagged Horror’s lifespan increases dramatically as you level up. I easily get it between fights, though it does die soon afterward (about half health when it runs up to attack). It’s much more useful when you have multiple enemies in a single fight.

On the plus side, jagged horrors are extremely responsive to combat and do decent damage.

it’s one of the worst trait ever in any mmorpg, completely useless, I’d rather just have some stat gain than this thing

I see. Well, i’ll judge again after I hit 80 on whether I find them of any use.
Thanks for the replies :>

Mordar.4286:

it’s one of the worst trait ever in any mmorpg, completely useless, I’d rather just have some stat gain than this thing

It can be useful because of the benefits it grants via Protection of the Horde and the three minion-oriented Grandmaster traits. I’ve also found them very useful as body blocks while stomping. Of course, how this justifies them as a viable candidate for an adept minor trait is still quite a puzzle.

These two traits could really use a look into. IMO, they should roll Protection of the Horde into Flesh of the Master, Reanimator into Minion Master, make Greater Marks the Master minor trait (let’s face it, everyone wants marks) and add a new Adept Minor trait.

Sarrs.4831:

It can be useful because of the benefits it grants via Protection of the Horde…

lol yeah, +20 toughness for the entire 5 seconds the little rat stays alive. It’s basically an invulnerability skill :P

Linguistically Inept.6583:

death magic adept and master level minor traits both suck for any non MM necro

fixed that for you.

Seriously though, Protection of the Horde is even worse than Reanimator. How can this be a master minor trait when two lines below you get an auto-stunbreak with protection and life force regen. Just embarrassing…

Anyway, there has been some chatter a while back about devs looking into it.

I’ve been told directly by a dev that the trait is terrible, they know that, and they are looking into it, as well as general talk about it being bad. It’ll be addressed, although I don’t know of its priority.

Sarrs:
These two traits could really use a look into. IMO, they should roll Protection of the Horde into Flesh of the Master, Reanimator into Minion Master, make Greater Marks the Master minor trait (let’s face it, everyone wants marks) and add a new Adept Minor trait.

Plexxing:
Actually, rolling the protection of the hordes and reanimator into existing minion traits sounds reasonable. Not too sure about the greater marks thing, though. Not that I’d argue if they did it. ;-)

Plexxing.2978:

Sarrs:
These two traits could really use a look into. IMO, they should roll Protection of the Horde into Flesh of the Master, Reanimator into Minion Master, make Greater Marks the Master minor trait (let’s face it, everyone wants marks) and add a new Adept Minor trait.

No I don’t want marks, not until they fix Putrid mark at least.

Think most/all necro’s hate that trait and how useless it is in most/all situation and everytime your character makes his little speech about it dying is just……….sigh.

W

Plexxing.2978:

Plexxing.2978:

Sarrs:
These two traits could really use a look into. IMO, they should roll Protection of the Horde into Flesh of the Master, Reanimator into Minion Master, make Greater Marks the Master minor trait (let’s face it, everyone wants marks) and add a new Adept Minor trait.

No I don’t want marks, not until they fix Putrid mark at least.

Why, what’s wrong with it?
I don’t really use it as a condition remover as I’m not a high enough level yet where conditions are a problem, I mainly use as a blast finisher with Chillblains and Well of Suffering.

Shrouded Removal as adept and Reapers protection (or spiteful vigor) as major.

Putrid Mark used to remove all conditions from you and up to 5 allies in the mark’s area when triggered (it might have done less from allies, I don’t recall). Now it removes 3-5 from you and nothing else.

Since then I’ve dropped staff from a number of my PvP non-condi builds, especially my defensive ones, which are the ones that would be going 20 deep into DM.

Bhawb.7408:

I’ve been told directly by a dev that the trait is terrible, they know that, and they are looking into it, as well as general talk about it being bad. It’ll be addressed, although I don’t know of its priority.

That dev has blood on his hands then. This was an easy easy fix to make. Swap both minor traits with any major in those respective tiers, and life is instantly better for that trait line as a whole.

That is a coding fix that would take moments at best. Unlike the much more irritating no-interrupt-on-fear bug, which may never get fixed.

That isn’t something they want to do. They are either going to improve/redesign it (which I think they should try first) or make an entirely new trait.

Zach.3264:

Upon the Jagged Horror spawning it genuinely dies in a matter of seconds…

LOL. This is a buffed reannimator. You should have seen it before a patch improved it.

The jagged rodent adds bleeds and acts as bait to draw aggro – not terrible for a minor adept but listening to it die all the time drove me insane. Now, I get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I hear it lay down and gurgle to death.

I think they could buff Reanimator (and other such on-death traits) by expanding what it summons off of, and reducing the ICD.

Bhawb.7408:

I think they could buff Reanimator (and other such on-death traits) by expanding what it summons off of, and reducing the ICD.

Having two or three out at a time would make condition builds interesting. . . However, I don’t know if it would improve lupi fights.

I’d still like to see it go to something less specialized and improving overall defense for any build.

It has been stated time and time over, Reanimator to Major Master, Summons jaggered horror upon nearby deaths (allies, mesmer phantasams, minions, spirits of both kind included – doesnt proc on shattering, sacing minions on effect or other jhorrors dying), 25 sec internal cd-5 pre slot of jhorror open, max 5 jhorrors up at a time, slots arent shared with the mark of horror from lich nor lich rune ones.

It’s not horrible, but it’s far from amazing. If you take Flesh of the Master they have far more HP. They also explode when they die if you take the death nova trait, giving poison and a sizable amount of damage.

Along with the slight toughness gain I DO believe ((Don’t take my word for it)) They siphon health along with your other minions if you take the lower tier siphon traits.

They are decent for MM builds, suck for EVERYTHING else.

Also a while back I ran apothecary+wells and marks build. I could EASILY keep 5 up with mark of blood and well of blood. It was rather funny.

I think re-animator shouldn’t be removed but rather it should buffed and made master minor. Biggest problem with the trait currently is that you only get 1 and you have no control of when you summon it. Face it guys we need at-least minion related minor trait and even in its current form it can still be used for lifeforce gain where as protection of the hoard is a dud even in minion builds.

So My suggestion: When you kill a foe gain a horror token (maximum of 3). When you click on the horror icon you summon jagged horrors equal to the number of tokens you possess (35second cooldown, 0.25 cast time).

Simple effective and useable in most builds without being overpowered and you control when they are used

Protection of the hoard should simply be removed altogether and replaced with something like spiteful vigor or shrouded removal. Abilities which are rarely taken on ther own currently but are still useful

WereDragon.6083:

It’s not horrible, but it’s far from amazing. If you take Flesh of the Master they have far more HP. They also explode when they die if you take the death nova trait, giving poison and a sizable amount of damage.

Along with the slight toughness gain I DO believe ((Don’t take my word for it)) They siphon health along with your other minions if you take the lower tier siphon traits.

They are decent for MM builds, suck for EVERYTHING else.

Also a while back I ran apothecary+wells and marks build. I could EASILY keep 5 up with mark of blood and well of blood. It was rather funny.

Having to build in a specific manner to make them useful points to Reanimator and Protection of the Horde needing to be either optional like most of the other MM-focused traits, or somehow making the planets align in accordance with prophecy in order to make them useful to all builds.

Jagged horrors are only really good if you’re specc’d into being a minion master and have the death nova trait, as that makes every horror spawned a free 1.25k damage AOE+poison field (excluding their auto attack damage and the bleeding they cause).

I agree with the others though, the jagged horror trait should be swapped with a higher tier trait. IMO it should be moved up to the grand master minor and either have it’s cooldown reduced and make it proc off of allies going down/dieing as well.

striker.3704:

IMO it should be moved up to the grand master minor and either have it’s cooldown reduced and make it proc off of allies going down/dieing as well.

it would be pretty interesting if it was moved up to grandmaster minor and its ICD removed completely… massive minion army in wvw (till they get melted by aoes… so… 2 seconds)

I hope they rework death magic minor traits. I want to be able to get staff traits(for condition build) and have somewhat useful minors.

On a side note i dont really like soul reaping minor traits either except for grandmaster. Maybe they could rework those 2? The spectral armor at 50% always procs at the worst times and i often get no benefit from it =/

Oh no. Last Gasp is arguably the best minor trait we have. The Protection is always relevant when it goes off and the life force gain almost always is.

I believe the minor adept Reannimator trait should be “Glow in the Dark” where minions light up dark areas for their masters and group members.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Oh no. Last Gasp is arguably the best minor trait we have. The Protection is always relevant when it goes off and the life force gain almost always is.

If something or someone actually hits u after it goes off. For me it often procs and i dont even get hit while its active(in pve moreso than pvp).

Anchoku.8142:

I believe the minor adept Reannimator trait should be “Glow in the Dark” where minions light up dark areas for their masters and group members.

Are you suggesting we make Reanimator somewhat useful? Blasphemy!

I do rather like the token idea. the ability to bring 3 to 5 up after stacking them like charges would give us MM’s a very frightening combat mechanic. “Suddenly flesh rats!”

I think it would be fine if the jagged horror just didn’t spawn until we next landed an attack after killing something. That way, it is in combat with full health. The token idea just brings up the nasty problem of the necro being able to go “hey look, your AoE is all getting eaten up by minions”

Maybe replace it with something akin to the Elementalist adept minor trait Stone Flesh?

Shrouded Flesh – Gain 2 Toughness per level while in Death Shroud

Or, perhaps like some other minor traits that trigger at a certain health level:

Noxious Ground – Gain CPC at your location for 4 sec when health reaches 50%

Or, perhaps a boon duration boost, since boon duration is in the Death trait line:

Savor Death – Boon duration increases 0.2% per level
(so, 16% @ lvl 80)

Reanimator : Whenever a nearby creature dies, a jagged horror is summoned that does bleeding with each of it’s attacks. The jagged horror dies after 15 seconds if not slain in combat. When this minion dies it can rally a nearby downed ally<— (cooldown 90 seconds) and grants the master 5% life force <—-(10 second cd)
notes: There can be multiple jagged horrors, maximum of 3. They will not trigger any relevant minion traits (such as vampiric, death nova, ect). They have no natural hp degen but they also have no natural hp regen outside of combat. If the 3 cap is hit, no new ones can be summoned until those 3 are killed.

I initially started this post as a joke, but I honestly like my idea now lol.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Reanimator : Whenever a nearby creature dies, a jagged horror is summoned that does bleeding with each of it’s attacks. The jagged horror dies after 15 seconds if not slain in combat. When this minion dies it can rally a nearby downed ally<— (cooldown 90 seconds) and grants the master 5% life force <—-(10 second cd)
notes: There can be multiple jagged horrors, maximum of 3. They will not trigger any relevant minion traits (such as vampiric, death nova, ect). They have no natural hp degen but they also have no natural hp regen outside of combat. If the 3 cap is hit, no new ones can be summoned until those 3 are killed.

I initially started this post as a joke, but I honestly like my idea now lol.

Jagged horror death nova is a very nice part of being a MM master. Now if they died and perhaps healed in a small AoE I can go with this as my minions need some desperate survivability in PVP

Replace it with 2-3s aegis on entering DS, give us a trait that requires active, and thoughtful use to get the most out of it. Also brings a little bit of the functionality of DS before damage went through to hp.

Personally I think it would be great if they just added a small AoE heal to the surrounding minions when they died.

Yeh, Im with War Mourner.
It’s a perfect spot to have a trait no one will miss, to replace it with something that would fix how they broke out DS use for keeping up with any other class in a long fight.

Aegis on DS, vigor on crit, endurance regen. Something! Pref is something you have to ‘use’, people enjoy skilled play, not random passive luckly linking up at the right time. (DFire unskilled rage/hate)
Aegis would make the 30 points soul reaping 3sec stability feel less potent. But I personally would be happy. (It doesn’t even always work, and seems to punish lag/high server load.)

Imo, Death Magic needs to emphasize the whole group support aspect more and focus a bit less on minions.

Death Magic:

Minor Traits:
Adept- Shrouded Removal- Lose a condition when you enter death shroud.
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
Grandmaster- Deadly Strength

Major Traits:
I- Dark Armor
II- Spiteful Vigor
III- Minion Master- Minion skills recharge 20% faster. Summon a jagged horror whenever you kill a foe. 30 second cooldown.
IV- Ritual of Protection
V- Death’s Caress- When you are hit, you have a 33% chance to gain 1% life force.
VI- Scales of Fate- When you remove a condition from an ally, they gain 2 stacks of Might (10S).

VII- Greater Marks- Increases area of marks and marks become unblockable. Staff skills recharge 20% faster.
VIII- Inevitability- Reduce incoming Cripple, Chill, and Immobilize by 25%. When one of these conditions is applied to you, you transfer it back to the source (20S cooldown).
IX- Death Shiver
X- Flesh of the Master- Minions have 50% more health. Gain +20 Toughness for every minion under your control.

XI- Death Nova
XII- Under Death’s Wing- When you enter Death Shroud, you and nearby allies gain 2.5s of protection.

EDIT- Some thoughts and explanations.

Death Magic currently feels like the “minions and staff” tree, which is too narrow a niche. Given that it grants Toughness and Boon Duration, you would think that it would provide for in the way of group support (which happens to synergize with minions pretty well, but doesn’t mean every trait should require minion use).

Necromantic Corruption is not a well designed trait- boon removal is timing based and can change the outcome of a fight. It shouldn’t be strapped to a random proc on the autoattack of an AI minion.

Minion Master is probably overloaded for an Adept trait, but Reanimator is weak enough that I don’t think it’s a big deal. If Reanimator was buffed, it could easily be an adept trait and replace one of the other adepts that won’t be terribly missed.

Scales of Fate would not apply to the necromancer himself- Consume Conditions doesn’t need a huge buff like that, and we have a few too many ways to fully clear conditions. It should be a situational improvement to group support (Adepts are usually situational).

Staff honestly isn’t that great even with all 3 traits you can currently take for it. By consolidating the traits, you’re at least not investing so much into a largely situational weapon. (Just take Spiteful Marks out of the game- 10% to marks isn’t even close to being worth a trait slot).

Inevitability has an inherent design contradiction, in that it reduces snare durations but also reflects them. However, the obvious alternative (Your snares are increased in duration by 20%, reflect snares on a 20 sec ICD) seems more like a Spite trait. Death Magic seems like a more appropriate place to put anti-CC defense, since it’s a defensive trait line.

Death Nova- Could stand to deal a bit more damage in PVE/WvW, since there it acts as compensation for the fact that your minions are very vulnerable to AOE and tend to die before doing much damage. Would be nifty if it scaled with your power, condition damage, and condition duration, but not necessary.

I don’t think that Anet would give us Aegis, Vigor, or Evades- that doesn’t gel with their design for the class. However, increasing potential uptime on Protection seems like a good way to reward people who invest in a defensive traitline. We also needed a Grandmaster in Death Magic that rewards non-minion builds and provide group support.

Urug.2543:

Imo, Death Magic needs to emphasize the whole group support aspect more and focus a bit less on minions.

Death Magic:

Minor Traits:
Adept- Shrouded Removal- Lose a condition when you enter death shroud.
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.
Grandmaster- Deadly Strength

Major Traits:
I- Dark Armor
II- Spiteful Vigor
III- Minion Master- Minion skills recharge 20% faster. Summon a jagged horror whenever you kill a foe. 30 second cooldown.
IV- Ritual of Protection
V- Death’s Caress- When you are hit, you have a 33% chance to gain 1% life force.
VI- Scales of Fate- When you remove a condition from an ally, they gain 2 stacks of Might (10S).

VII- Greater Marks- Increases area of marks and marks become unblockable. Staff skills recharge 20% faster.
VIII- Inevitability- Reduce incoming Cripple, Chill, and Immobilize by 25%. When one of these conditions is applied to you, you transfer it back to the source (20S cooldown).
IX- Death Shiver
X- Flesh of the Master- Minions have 50% more health. Gain +20 Toughness for every minion under your control.

XI- Death Nova
XII- Under Death’s Wing- When you enter Death Shroud, you and nearby allies gain 2.5s of protection.

Sounds good.

Urug.2543:

Minor Traits:
…
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.

dear god no.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Urug.2543:

Minor Traits:
…
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.

dear god no.

I think he means “fear nearby foes”. Actually, I’d be quite happy with Reaper’s Protection as a minor trait, but I feel in that case it should be Grandmaster level. It’s one thing when you have to choose for it over Greater Marks or Flesh of the Master (let’s be honest, nobody bothers with Death Shiver).. As a minor, though, it should not be super accessible.

The little guy should give us life force when he dies.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Urug.2543:

Minor Traits:
…
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.

dear god no.

I think he means “fear nearby foes”. Actually, I’d be quite happy with Reaper’s Protection as a minor trait, but I feel in that case it should be Grandmaster level. It’s one thing when you have to choose for it over Greater Marks or Flesh of the Master (let’s be honest, nobody bothers with Death Shiver).. As a minor, though, it should not be super accessible.

this would make necro even less desirable in dungeons, any necro with 15 in death magic is going to scatter groups as soon as they down

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Urug.2543:

Minor Traits:
…
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.

dear god no.

I think he means “fear nearby foes”. Actually, I’d be quite happy with Reaper’s Protection as a minor trait, but I feel in that case it should be Grandmaster level. It’s one thing when you have to choose for it over Greater Marks or Flesh of the Master (let’s be honest, nobody bothers with Death Shiver).. As a minor, though, it should not be super accessible.

this would make necro even less desirable in dungeons, any necro with 15 in death magic is going to scatter groups as soon as they down

And in the good new dungeons this is bad how? They very much punished moronic zerker stacking.

I think the trait should spawn a little minion bomb that runs to your target and explode. Give them a timer and a cool down.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Urug.2543:

Minor Traits:
…
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.

dear god no.

I think he means “fear nearby foes”. Actually, I’d be quite happy with Reaper’s Protection as a minor trait, but I feel in that case it should be Grandmaster level. It’s one thing when you have to choose for it over Greater Marks or Flesh of the Master (let’s be honest, nobody bothers with Death Shiver).. As a minor, though, it should not be super accessible.

this would make necro even less desirable in dungeons, any necro with 15 in death magic is going to scatter groups as soon as they down

You’re confusing Reaper’s Protection (AoE fear on CC) with Fear of death (AoE fear on downed).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Urug.2543:

Minor Traits:
…
Master- Reaper’s Protection- When disabled (by stun, daze, knockback, knockdown, sink, float, fear, or launch), nearby foes fear you. This effect can only trigger once every 90 seconds.

dear god no.

I think he means “fear nearby foes”. Actually, I’d be quite happy with Reaper’s Protection as a minor trait, but I feel in that case it should be Grandmaster level. It’s one thing when you have to choose for it over Greater Marks or Flesh of the Master (let’s be honest, nobody bothers with Death Shiver).. As a minor, though, it should not be super accessible.

In hindsight, yeah Reaper’s Protection should be Master or Grandmaster minor level. It would probably be more balanced if something else (Spiteful Vigor?) was in the Master minor slot and the others were shuffled to make room for it in the Master tier.

And the wording on Reaper’s Protection is like that in game, it says “nearby foes fear you” but it really means “you apply fear to nearby foes”.

In any case, I was more hoping to spark a discussion on what Death Magic “should” be like; I feel that it is too niche in its current state and that it needs to focus more on boon-based support (or maybe interaction with condition removal).

Maybe a trait that give +toughness for every condition on you.

Edit: Or one that gives you a stack of might whenever you have a condition applied to you.