Guild Wars 2

Abimes.9726:

Dreamin : For what i heard signets will be reworked.

From what you heard? All in the info we got about the upcoming changes come from the official announcement. Since I haven’t read this anywhere, the question is : where did you “hear” this ?

coconutdown.6512:

Abimes.9726:

Dreamin : For what i heard signets will be reworked.

From what you heard? All in the info we got about the upcoming changes come from the official announcement. Since I haven’t read this anywhere, the question is : where did you “hear” this ?

It was said on the samer Ready Up that they released the traits.

Dreaming serpent.5197:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Vampirism Should heal when YOU strike a foe, not when the foe strikes you. Scale the passive the same as Warrior’s healing signet (.05). Up the heal amount to the same as Warrior’s healing signet. Change the ICD to 3/4 of a second (This is flexible, but is so that a dagger combo chain would still proc it twice. Also since it’s reliant on hits it will more often than not still heal less than the warriors).

Signet of vamp is more of an extra damage skill than a heal. I pop it on a boss every time its up and just use my dagger life siphon as a heal as needed. I honestly think its there so you can have extra damage at the expense of a heal skill. But if thats the case, it should do more damage since often times not all 25 stacks of life siphon get eaten, and if im giving up a heal to do damage, i want that skill to do DAMAGE.

Hes right for vampiric signet though. The passive should provide sustain. It should be on hit. It doesnt even need in ICD in either format. But if the healing per hit is good enough then im ok with a 1 second ICD. The active needs the ICD removed from the stacks portion so players can use intelligent play to get the best out of it (save fast multi hits for burst and bigger heal).

Heal when hit doesnt make any sense. It would be passable if we could get signet passives in DS and we could heal in DS. That way we could sit DS and get hit to heal our base HP. But thats not possible. So the concept of the passive is completely useless to everyone.

spoj.9672:

Hes right for vampiric signet though. The passive should provide sustain. It should be on hit. It doesnt even need in ICD in either format. But if the healing per hit is good enough then im ok with a 1 second ICD. The active needs the ICD removed from the stacks portion so players can use intelligent play to get the best out of it (save fast multi hits for burst and bigger heal).

Heal when hit doesnt make any sense. It would be passable if we could get signet passives in DS and we could heal in DS. That way we could sit DS and get hit to heal our base HP. But thats not possible. So the concept of the passive is completely useless to everyone.

I agree that the passive is trash, but I think it was built such that the passive would be useless. It seems like a skill that they wanted popped every time it was available. Swapping it so that you get healing when you hit gives less incentive for you to actively use it. Essentially: they made the passive bad to force you to use the active. The problem is that the active isnt fantastic either. Likely in a dungeon it wont deal its full damage.

So my point is: either make the passive good, or the active good, but as it stands they’re both lack luster.

The point of signets is to have use on both the passive and active. The general theme is to have sustain on passive and some good niche use on the active. Making the passive heal on hit fixes that. The active isnt far off being a decent niche skill to pop. It just needs a slight buff to the base heal and the removal of the active ICD.

Also necros are more likely to pop the active on such a skill because they wont benefit from the passive in DS. Which means if they plan to sit in DS for a while then they can pop the active before entering DS then camp DS until it comes off cooldown. And then you have a well balanced heal skill which has benefits to both the active and the passive portion. :P

One thing I want SoV to do is transfer a condition on hit with an ICD.

Id say that would be more suited to go on plague signet. :P

That works, too!

Honestly, Necromancer is not very good at doing any one particular thing besides soaking up tons of damage. Maybe more skills with condition management value is the solution.

Actually, managing boons would be fine, too. Necromancer does not get many boons so being able to steal them or Epidemic them could give us that niche.

spoj.9672:

The point of signets is to have use on both the passive and active. The general theme is to have sustain on passive and some good niche use on the active. Making the passive heal on hit fixes that. The active isnt far off being a decent niche skill to pop. It just needs a slight buff to the base heal and the removal of the active ICD.

Also necros are more likely to pop the active on such a skill because they wont benefit from the passive in DS. Which means if they plan to sit in DS for a while then they can pop the active before entering DS then camp DS until it comes off cooldown. And then you have a well balanced heal skill which has benefits to both the active and the passive portion. :P

I would prefer a SoV that keeps its base heal, does more damage (by adding more stacks, extending the duration of the stacks, and removing the ICD) and passive heals on hits (with a cool down on that heal). That way, the signet serves its active function better (bonus damage) and still provides a passive heal (Which signets should do) without being too strong with its active base heal. The active heal is bad if you only use signet of vamp, but it works out nicely if you couple it with dagger.

So in the end, you get a signet where with dagger you are likely to use it frequently and life siphon health to heal with dagger 2.

With other weapons, you are less likely to activate it, but you get a decent passive heal on hits, and when you activate the heal you get bonus damage.

Sagat.3285:

By all means do not let current Lingering Curse out it’s a toxic trait that will naturally makes condition weak for balance with it I

+10000

It will work worse than that. If this trait goes live:

All of the condition transfers will end up nerfed. All of the conditions on Death Shroud will get nerfed. All of the conditions from traits will get nerfed.

All of the conditions on other weapons will get nerfed (because you can for example staff mark somebody and then weapon swap for a double length fear).

Off hand weapons (warhorn, dagger 5) will not get badly needed finishers if this trait exists (potential for unindented uses).

Finally, this trait will probably not result in nerfs to sigils (ie 4 second chills every 10 seconds), but will instead result in nerfs to every other source of necromancer conditions to make up for uses of sigils. (hypothetical uses, we’re still stuck with sigil of energy in the real world).

If scepter skills are too weak to be viable, improve them! Don’t force a grandmaster on scepter users! Especially a grandmaster that unintentionally nerfs every non condition-damage necromancer.

nekretaal.6485:

All of the condition transfers will end up nerfed.

Transfers just copy the duration of the condition on you so they will be unaffected by Lingering Curse.
But yeah, 100% on LC would snowball into a balancing nightmare.

flow.6043:

nekretaal.6485:

All of the condition transfers will end up nerfed.

Transfers just copy the duration of the condition on you so they will be unaffected by Lingering Curse.
But yeah, 100% on LC would snowball into a balancing nightmare.

I even thought the 50% bleed duration on warrior was bad. 100% on all conditions when using a scepter is just silly… If they need that must of a boost, the base needs bumped up a bit and the trait needs to go way down (in both cases).

What ever happened to the logic behind Grenadier???? “We felt it was strange having a GM trait that effectively increased your damage by 50%.”

→ Trait DOUBLES duration and adds damage to conditions…
→ Trait adds 50% bleed duration.

Where is the logic?

It frees up weapon, sigil, rune, and consumable options so we do not have to build condition duration.

I think you all forget that traits do NOT award the free condition duration anymore. Which is NOT affected by changes in basestats, and if they do not up condi-duration on gear, it will be a LOT less than what it seems.

ronpierce.2760:

What ever happened to the logic behind Grenadier???? “We felt it was strange having a GM trait that effectively increased your damage by 50%.”

-> Trait DOUBLES duration and adds damage to conditions…
-> Trait adds 50% bleed duration.

Where is the logic?

Lol, but the 3rd granade will be made baseline. Apparently it felt strange to them to withhold a +50% damage trait that everyone took anyway. In fact, a lot of the standard picks in Explosives are going to be either baseline or a minor trait in order to give engis “more meaningful choices”.
Now, if we applied the same logic to necros and had a look at Curses, can you think of the one trait that was the most standard choice for any condition build?
Yeah, Terror. And that trait isn’t even half as impactful as Accelerant Packed Turrets, a 3rd granade, bigger bomb radius and Forceful Explosions. But instead of giving Terror the engi-treatment they put it into grandmaster next to the single most overpowerd trait the necro has ever seen. And not only would this make Terror – the trademark trait of any condimancer – never be used again but Terror now also blocks a spot for power builds.
My mind is still blown…

Shiki.7148:

I think you all forget that traits do NOT award the free condition duration anymore. Which is NOT affected by changes in basestats, and if they do not up condi-duration on gear, it will be a LOT less than what it seems.

Sure, but guess what the right approach to this issue is: Increase base stats or introduce one trait that doubles everything?

Shiki.7148:

I think you all forget that traits do NOT award the free condition duration anymore. Which is NOT affected by changes in basestats, and if they do not up condi-duration on gear, it will be a LOT less than what it seems.

I think you’ve missed my point. My point isn’t the end result. Its that ANet specifically said they don’t want traits that just feel like they should be baseline and especially dont want one GM where it adds 50% damage out of no where.

Then they have a trait where, instead of increasing base durations, they make a single trait add damage AND doubles durations… Thats well beyond a 50% difference.

ronpierce.2760:

Shiki.7148:

I think you all forget that traits do NOT award the free condition duration anymore. Which is NOT affected by changes in basestats, and if they do not up condi-duration on gear, it will be a LOT less than what it seems.

I think you’ve missed my point. My point isn’t the end result. Its that ANet specifically said they don’t want traits that just feel like they should be baseline and especially dont want one GM where it adds 50% damage out of no where.

Then they have a trait where, instead of increasing base durations, they make a single trait add damage AND doubles durations… Thats well beyond a 50% difference.

The real deal is scepter must be nerfed unless a GM trait slot is blown on it. Obviously, scepter is OP with any condition duration at all.

Edit: What I mean is that I can take Hemophilia and Whithering Precision if I also take 6 in Spite, use food, and have Krait runes.

Where will 100%+ duration come from to make scepter ok in PvP if a GM is not used?

I worry about scepter being astoundingly bad without that one GM.

Anchoku.8142:

The real deal is scepter must be nerfed unless a GM trait slot is blown on it. Obviously, scepter is OP with any condition duration at all.

After this I just thought you forgot to write /sarcasm in case it wasn’t super obvious to some people.

Anchoku.8142:

Where will 100%+ duration come from to make scepter ok in PvP if a GM is not used?

You make it sound like scepter is bad unless you get +100% to all conditions?

Anchoku.8142:

I worry about scepter being astoundingly bad without that one GM.

Lingering Curse currently isn’t used in PvP at all, but scepter is.
Also, that “new” LC won’t make scepter any better because due to frequent cleansing all of its conditions are likely to not run their full duration anyway, but +100% will break the balance of all condition skills/traits that aren’t tied to the scepter.

Yes, I was being sarcastic. The new LC seems strong but condition duration will not start with a free 20-30% form Spite, anymore.

I would rather scepter base damage and duration increase a bit, then have LC either buff scepter the rest of the way or add condition damage to other weapons like Barbed Precision. Keeping everything on scepter cripples build variety.

Anchoku.8142:

Yes, I was being sarcastic. The new LC seems strong but condition duration will not start with a free 20-30% form Spite, anymore.

I would rather scepter base damage and duration increase a bit, then have LC either buff scepter the rest of the way or add condition damage to other weapons like Barbed Precision. Keeping everything on scepter cripples build variety.

How many people ran spite? Weren’t most builds already 0/6/4/0/0/4? o.O

Regardless. You’re still ignoring everything I said. I had said +100% is too strong for A TRAIT. → Increase baseline, and make the trait less powerful on its own, based on logic ANet applied to engineer where they specifically said they made Grenadier baseline because they didn’t feel a trait should be a flat 50% damage increase. Mainly because if it was balanced, then baseline it must have been too weak.

Why is that so hard to apply here? o.O

I don’t know why it is so hard, either. I would rather scepter get a traditional CD reduction as part of a master or master minor and have LC give something like 2 stacks of 2 sec bleed on crit to all weapons.

LC should be changed to: 15% attack speed and 20% condition duration on scepter skills. Then it should be master tier. The only way a trait like this should be a GM is if it adds an actual new effect, not just increased effectiveness. For instance, if scepter attacks applied torment on every hit, that would worthy of a GM. More stats is not what Anet should be giving as GMs, which is effectively what LC does now.

ronpierce.2760:

… based on logic ANet applied to engineer where they specifically said they made Grenadier baseline because they didn’t feel a trait should be a flat 50% damage increase.

I think the emphasis here wasn’t that traits shouldn’t increase damage, but the fact that having granades in your bar made Granadier a mandatory trait, as in: untraited granades are pointless.

flow.6043:

ronpierce.2760:

… based on logic ANet applied to engineer where they specifically said they made Grenadier baseline because they didn’t feel a trait should be a flat 50% damage increase.

I think the emphasis here wasn’t that traits shouldn’t increase damage, but the fact that having granades in your bar made Granadier a mandatory trait, as in: untraited granades are pointless.

With additional 150 cond damage and double duration either the trait will be OP or the base will be nerfed to needing the trait. The difference is too large for one of the other to not exist if 2 versus 3 grenades caused that much of a disconnect.

BUG: Life transfer: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Bug-or-Nerf-Life-Transfer-change/first#post4912191

Loads of suggestions about Signets, Signet Mastery, Spite traitline master and grandmaster: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Feedback-Spite-Signet-Mastery-Grandmaster/

Noone seems to care about this one but it’s very important to me: Flesh wurm mechanic changes: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Why-include-Flesh-Wurm-in-the-blink-changes/

Thanks for reading!

zapv.8051:

LC should be changed to: 15% attack speed and 20% condition duration on scepter skills. Then it should be master tier. The only way a trait like this should be a GM is if it adds an actual new effect, not just increased effectiveness.

I like the idea of increased attack speed, afterall the biggest selling point of the scepter is the poison on auto attack but for that you have to complete the attack chain.

However, people really need to stop thinking in tier-hierarchy with the new specialization system. Since you get the entire line anyway you can’t assume grandmaster traits are stronger than lower tiers.
So when you say LC should be master instead of grandmaster you’re not doing so because it isn’t strong enough, but you’re really questioning if the trait is paired up against the right alternatives.

ronpierce.2760:

flow.6043:

I think the emphasis here wasn’t that traits shouldn’t increase damage, but the fact that having granades in your bar made Granadier a mandatory trait, as in: untraited granades are pointless.

With additional 150 cond damage and double duration either the trait will be OP or the base will be nerfed to needing the trait. The difference is too large for one of the other to not exist if 2 versus 3 grenades caused that much of a disconnect.

LC will definitely be OP and it will lead to baseline nerfs of other skills and traits.
But the Grenadier trait is a different issue. It’s basically like Greater Marks before they increased the base radius of marks from 120 to 180.

flow.6043:

zapv.8051:

LC should be changed to: 15% attack speed and 20% condition duration on scepter skills. Then it should be master tier. The only way a trait like this should be a GM is if it adds an actual new effect, not just increased effectiveness.

I like the idea of increased attack speed, afterall the biggest selling point of the scepter is the poison on auto attack but for that you have to complete the attack chain.

However, people really need to stop thinking in tier-hierarchy with the new specialization system. Since you get the entire line anyway you can’t assume grandmaster traits are stronger than lower tiers.
So when you say LC should be master instead of grandmaster you’re not doing so because it isn’t strong enough, but you’re really questioning if the trait is paired up against the right alternatives.

GMs are stronger than other tiers though, so I’m not assuming that. The tier system still exists, adept, master and grandmaster are still different tiers to represent different strengths (really obvious imo, but I can give plenty of examples). They also stated GMs are supposed to be build defining, and change the way you play, which is why LC shouldn’t be GM, it isn’t build defining or epic, it just makes stuff better.

The bottom line for me is:

The existence of a trait inherently affects the developer’s view when it comes to balancing the rest of the class. Giving 100% duration to a trait means that the rest of the class associated with using that trait needs to be balanced such that the trait will not make the build imbalanced.

The ripple effect for traits is real. See: the past.

zapv.8051:

GMs are stronger than other tiers though, so I’m not assuming that.

Except they aren’t.
Some gm traits are just total garbage, while some adept or even minor traits heavily outshine the ones in higher tiers.

zapv.8051:

The tier system still exists, adept, master and grandmaster

Yes, but with the specialization system you might as well call them A, B and C. It’s just a name and no longer an indicator of their power.

zapv.8051:

They also stated GMs are supposed to be build defining, and change the way you play, which is why LC shouldn’t be GM, it isn’t build defining or epic, it just makes stuff better.

Just proves that the devs should’ve never use that term. It only served to confuse people into putting an artificial value on the gm tier or analyse how creative a trait’s contribution to a build is.

Again, stop thinking in tiers. What you need to worry about instead is if Lingering Curse – Terror – Parasitic Contagion is a matchup that makes sense, or if you moved LC down to master, any other constellation of traits that might result in that shift.

flow.6043:

zapv.8051:

GMs are stronger than other tiers though, so I’m not assuming that.

Except they aren’t.
Some gm traits are just total garbage, while some adept or even minor traits heavily outshine the ones in higher tiers.

zapv.8051:

The tier system still exists, adept, master and grandmaster

Yes, but with the specialization system you might as well call them A, B and C. It’s just a name and no longer an indicator of their power.

zapv.8051:

They also stated GMs are supposed to be build defining, and change the way you play, which is why LC shouldn’t be GM, it isn’t build defining or epic, it just makes stuff better.

Just proves that the devs should’ve never use that term. It only served to confuse people into putting an artificial value on the gm tier or analyse how creative a trait’s contribution to a build is.

Again, stop thinking in tiers. What you need to worry about instead is if Lingering Curse – Terror – Parasitic Contagion is a matchup that makes sense, or if you moved LC down to master, any other constellation of traits that might result in that shift.

I’m sorry, but your just blatantly wrong. On average GMs are way stronger than Masters which are on average stronger than adepts. There are exceptions, but in general this is true. Anet also very clearly wants this to be the case, as you would know if you watched the stream on new traits.

I’m thinking in tiers because that is how it is. This is an easily observable fact, and has been confirmed by the people designing the game. If you don’t want to accept that it is fine, but it isn’t worth arguing with someone who isn’t accepting what is obvious.

The concept of adept, master, and grandmaster traits seems overly arbitrary now with the changes. IT made sense before when you had the option to put adept traits in the grand master slot. Before there was some clear hierarchy. That hierarchy has been abolished since you are forced to take the full line, and there is no overlap between tiers. At this point it is simply tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3.

zapv.8051:

I’m sorry, but your just blatantly wrong. On average GMs are way stronger than Masters which are on average stronger than adepts. There are exceptions, but in general this is true. Anet also very clearly wants this to be the case, as you would know if you watched the stream on new traits.

I’m thinking in tiers because that is how it is. This is an easily observable fact, and has been confirmed by the people designing the game. If you don’t want to accept that it is fine, but it isn’t worth arguing with someone who isn’t accepting what is obvious.

I think that might be part of the problem. Maybe by design, the “Grandmaster” tier of traits should not be inherently stronger, just more targeted. You then choose them because they fulfill a very particular role in your build, not because they are “just better”.

When you make a GM trait that gives you 100% condi duration to all conditions while wielding a weap, for example, that’s “just better”. It has ramifications for all conditions you could possibly use without that trait, because the trait needs to be balanced.

What if instead, for Scepter, the GM trait added some LF gen on the #1 and #2 skill? Or made the Poison in the 3rd chain of the #1 uncleansable somehow? I’m not arguing that these are balanced choices, necessarily, just using them as examples to make a point. Those ideas help fill niches, but don’t make you think “Well hmmm, I’m increasing condi duration for everything while this weap is out by 100%, so the durations need to be X baseline”, and meanwhile, the X baseline is some garbage value that makes everyone gravitate towards that trait if they use conditions.

I really think they need to abandon any notion of making the tiers “stronger”, and focus more on helping provide playstyle choices.

EDIT – I’ve been trying to stay generic because I haven’t watched the video yet, but Darwec’s comment really makes me want to watch the video. Apologies for speaking in ignorance, but I still agree traits like the LC mentioned are very toxic.

zapv.8051:

I’m sorry, but your just blatantly wrong. On average GMs are way stronger than Masters which are on average stronger than adepts.

Let’s see… Parasitic Contagion, Withering Precision, Necromantic Corruption, Unholy Sanctuary, Vampiric Rituals, Unholy Martyr, Renewing Blast. Those 8 traits are more than half of all grandmaster traits, and yes, they are all completely useless.
Now, are you really telling me that you can’t pick at least that many master or adept traits that are stronger than them?

zapv.8051:

If you don’t want to accept that it is fine, but it isn’t worth arguing with someone who isn’t accepting what is obvious.

It is worth arguing when people are discussing traits based on the assumption that there is supposed to be some kind of hierarchy. Even if there was one now, with specializations you always get the entire line and that makes thinking in tiers pointless.

Darwec.3784:

The concept of adept, master, and grandmaster traits seems overly arbitrary now with the changes. IT made sense before when you had the option to put adept traits in the grand master slot. Before there was some clear hierarchy. That hierarchy has been abolished since you are forced to take the full line, and there is no overlap between tiers. At this point it is simply tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3.

He get’s it.

flow.6043:

zapv.8051:

I’m sorry, but your just blatantly wrong. On average GMs are way stronger than Masters which are on average stronger than adepts.

Let’s see… Parasitic Contagion, Withering Precision, Necromantic Corruption, Unholy Sanctuary, Vampiric Rituals, Unholy Martyr, Renewing Blast. Those 8 traits are more than half of all grandmaster traits, and yes, they are all completely useless.
Now, are you really telling me that you can’t pick at least that many master or adept traits that are stronger than them?

Just because necros have a bunch of terrible GMs doesn’t mean they weren’t designed to be stronger than the adepts or masters. Maybe you just don’t look at other classes, but there is still a very clear distinction between the strength of GMs, Masters, and adepts. If you can’t see that the average strength of GM traits across all classes, not just the most broken class in the game, is higher than the average of Masters and adepts you aren’t trying.

flow.6043:

zapv.8051:

If you don’t want to accept that it is fine, but it isn’t worth arguing with someone who isn’t accepting what is obvious.

It is worth arguing when people are discussing traits based on the assumption that there is supposed to be some kind of hierarchy. Even if there was one now, with specializations you always get the entire line and that makes thinking in tiers pointless.

There is a very clear hierarchy. This doesn’t show very well on a necromancer, but looking across all classes it is again very easy to see. It might very well be pointless, although I like different strengths of traits personally, but it does exist.

flow.6043:

Darwec.3784:

The concept of adept, master, and grandmaster traits seems overly arbitrary now with the changes. IT made sense before when you had the option to put adept traits in the grand master slot. Before there was some clear hierarchy. That hierarchy has been abolished since you are forced to take the full line, and there is no overlap between tiers. At this point it is simply tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3.

He get’s it.

Again, I’m not saying it isn’t arbitrary, but you have to realize there is a very linearly increasing power difference between the tiers still. The last trait you pick has a much bigger possible effectiveness on a fight than the other traits. I’m not gonna argue if this distinction should exist, simply that it does, and the devs, at least so far in the traitline previews, clearly want this difference to be in place.

The tiers are irrelevant when you get the whole line by default. The only thing this is relevant is the alternative choices in the same tier. But that doesnt mean grandmaster has to have the strongest 3 traits. It just means those 3 need to be equal but provide different options. The same goes for the other 2 tiers.

You could make all tiers have grandmaster level traits. And that is almost what is happening thanks to all the trait merging (less noticeable on necro due to lack of good traits and merging).

flow.6043:

It is worth arguing when people are discussing traits based on the assumption that there is supposed to be some kind of hierarchy. Even if there was one now, with specializations you always get the entire line and that makes thinking in tiers pointless.

I agree that thinking in terms of an actually trait-hierarchy will become kinda pointless, but having different tiers of traits will not since all traits of the same tier will become mutually exclusive. We wont be able to pick lower-tier traits in higher-tier slots anymore. That makes good pairing of traits in their respective tier more important than ever (see the whole debacle with Curses).

Edit: Geez I´m slow today^^ spoj too fast, plz nerf =P

zapv.8051:

If you can’t see that the average strength of GM traits across all classes, not just the most broken class in the game, is higher than the average of Masters and adepts you aren’t trying.

Hold on, I’m trying…
… still trying
..yeah, nope. Sorry, it’s not happening for me.

zapv.8051:

Again, I’m not saying it isn’t arbitrary, but you have to realize there is a very linearly increasing power difference between the tiers still. The last trait you pick has a much bigger possible effectiveness on a fight than the other traits.

That’s just not true. Really, have you looked at our traits? Have you looked at other classes’ traits?
I know that there originally was an intention of making grandmaster traits more exclusive as you can only reach them with a higher point invesment, but in reality they mostly ended up being weaker than lower tier traits. Actually there are a lot of builds who invest 6 points in a line just to get an additional master or adept trait in the gm slot.

zapv.8051:

I’m not gonna argue if this distinction should exist, simply that it does, and the devs, at least so far in the traitline previews, clearly want this difference to be in place.

Wrong again.
The devs might have had the intention of making higher tiers stronger a long time ago, but that doesn’t change the fact that some gm traits are bad (not just on necro) and that all of this doesn’t matter anymore when you get specializations.
The only valid question is: how can we group traits together in order to make certain builds possible. So the way traits are arranged in specializations is in part just a remnant of how our trait lines currently look like and how they want to preserve builds that exist within this framework (with moderate success, I might add).

Also, may I at this point remind you that you’ve started this argument by saying LC should be master tier because it is weaker in the version you proposed.
That right there is just not a valid argument anymore when you have specializations.

You have a valid point, Flow, about tiers not matter in anymore. Only when leveling and unlocking will there be any difference.

I am really not comfortable with having lines associated with weapons and then having to pay for them. It’s limiting.

What if each line was not associated with a weapon but would give any weapon an extra bonus or effect?
Spite – 20% condition duration and vigor
Curses – 20% condition damage and 1 bleed 4sec on crit 3 sec ICD
Death Magic – 20% boon duration and 3 sec retaliation on hit, 10 sec ICD
Blood Magic – 1% life steal on every hit, both ways
Death Magic – 1 stack 5 sec might on crit , 3 sec ICD

Anchoku.8142:

You have a valid point, Flow, about tiers not matter in anymore. Only when leveling and unlocking will there be any difference.

I am really not comfortable with having lines associated with weapons and then having to pay for them. It’s limiting.

What if each line was not associated with a weapon but would give any weapon an extra bonus or effect?
Spite – 20% condition duration and vigor
Curses – 20% condition damage and 1 bleed 4sec on crit 3 sec ICD
Death Magic – 20% boon duration and 3 sec retaliation on hit, 10 sec ICD
Blood Magic – 1% life steal on every hit, both ways
Death Magic – 1 stack 5 sec might on crit , 3 sec ICD

What if traits actually affected how players use skills instead of just always giving players a bunch of entirely brainless freebies to go on top of the same mindless rotation that a player would be doing anyway?

Guardian elite specialization will get bleed, blind, bind, cripple, traps, and more ranged group support?

It seems like with Revy, Chrono, and DragonMaster that Necromancer’s entire purpose is intentionally being dismantled and split off to other professions. JP’s “joke” about deleting Necro may not be a joke.

Necro’s group support was bad, before, but it looks like it will soon be far inferior to other professions in debuffing as well. Between just what we have seen of the three professions above, I wonder if there is no longer a need for the “N” in GWEN. That makes Necro what, last place in all game modes?

Anchoku.8142:

Guardian elite specialization will get bleed, blind, bind, cripple, traps, and more ranged group support?

It seems like with Revy, Chrono, and DragonMaster that Necromancer’s entire purpose is intentionally being dismantled and split off to other professions. JP’s “joke” about deleting Necro may not be a joke.

Necro’s group support was bad, before, but it looks like it will soon be far inferior to other professions in debuffing as well. Between just what we have seen of the three professions above, I wonder if there is no longer a need for the “N” in GWEN. That makes Necro what, last place in all game modes?

That type of profession already exists in condi and spirit ranger. It’s not a reinvention of the wheel, just of the guardian. We haven’t seen our specialization yet. And I don’t see how Dragonhunter is all of a sudden making us lose our spot in the GWEN meta.

No dev response at all, even after the numerous posts, and 2-3 articles blasting the current status of the necro. How can they avoid even discussing this at least, or indicating a “Hey guys, we get it, we will take a look at these things,” or have been taking a look at these things? Still can’t get over the impression that they spent a whole 5-10 minutes going through our traits, merging some crappy ones, and dumping others, whereas they spent days, even weeks on others. Just the old once over for necros…. again.

Expand more on DS add a disengage or more mobility skills. Thats all I’d suggest. Necros need more mobility!

What I do not understand is how every other profession can build something like a Necromancer and now we have seen a new profession and two elite lines with descriptions of further debuff and control skills.

Nothing really changed in Necromancer’s design in the previewed traits. We are pretty sure GS will be another power weapon like dagger. I just do not see any hint of change with the exception of further decreasing Necro’s already dubious niche in applying soft conditions.

Here’s an idea for changing Lingering Curse to not be so overbearing:

While wielding a scepter, conditions you applied remain for up to 2 seconds after being cleansed. Will not exceed original duration of the condition.

For example, say you have no condition duration and your Blood is Power bleeds get cleansed at the 35 second mark (remember, Barbed Precision change). Those bleeds will remain on the target for one additional second, since 36 seconds is the applied duration.

However, if the same bleeds were cleansed t the 15 second mark, they would only last 2 more seconds, for a total of 17.

How is this good? Well, the Necro overall never entirely loses pressure to cleanses with this trait. Unless the enemy team completely locks you down for some time, there isn’t a point where your target is totally free of conditions. It strengthens the playstyle without forcing every other skill to be balanced around it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Here’s an idea for changing Lingering Curse to not be so overbearing:

While wielding a scepter, conditions you applied remain for up to 2 seconds after being cleansed. Will not exceed original duration of the condition.

For example, say you have no condition duration and your Blood is Power bleeds get cleansed at the 35 second mark (remember, Barbed Precision change). Those bleeds will remain on the target for one additional second, since 36 seconds is the applied duration.

However, if the same bleeds were cleansed t the 15 second mark, they would only last 2 more seconds, for a total of 17.

How is this good? Well, the Necro overall never entirely loses pressure to cleanses with this trait. Unless the enemy team completely locks you down for some time, there isn’t a point where your target is totally free of conditions. It strengthens the playstyle without forcing every other skill to be balanced around it.

Aside from possible breaking story/events (npc’sthat shouldn’t be dying die since the bleeds are re-applied after being cleansed), also what about our own cleanses from corruption skills/transferred conditions? We’re stuck with them as well.

If these points are adressed I must say that I like the idea especially uncleansable fear.

Feel free to comment.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-Up-comming-changes/page/2#post5045990