Guild Wars 2

Zoso.8279:

Expand more on DS add a disengage or more mobility skills. Thats all I’d suggest. Necros need more mobility!

Problem is that the Necro isn’t supposed to be mobile, which should translate into the ability to keep others from disengaging, but doesn’t.

The other problem with lack of mobility is the simple fact that in sPvP, rotating is one of the keys to winning. To quote a Civil War officer, “get there firstest with the mostest” but if you are slowest, you have to be able to bring something else, which Necros don’t.

A pretty cool PvP trait would be when you hit someone while wurm is out the enemy switches places with the wurm.

Or even if you hit someone while in Spectal Walk the enemy ports to where you started SW.

So, I was thinking while having a shower… pause for imagery..

If your Life Force is <10% while in DS, You are immume to damage. Throw in a stability as well, and just for kicks, swiftness. Obviously with an ICD.

You can’t enter DS unless you are over 10%. Also I believe that’ll give the necro about 3 seconds for the DS to run out of life force and it’ll act as a circuit breaker to focused fire. All packaged in a neat DS mechanic.

..anyway continue your rabid arguing..

oh wait!
While in DS, your #1 skill depends on the current main hand weapon. Suppose you could swap weapons in DS, too.
There is so much you can do with DS, I’m always saddened when people just unimaginatively just say to replace it or something.
It’s as if you are playing a different character or class when you press the F1 button.

You are your own minion. Words to live by! :P

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Here’s an idea for changing Lingering Curse to not be so overbearing:

While wielding a scepter, conditions you applied remain for up to 2 seconds after being cleansed. Will not exceed original duration of the condition.

For example, say you have no condition duration and your Blood is Power bleeds get cleansed at the 35 second mark (remember, Barbed Precision change). Those bleeds will remain on the target for one additional second, since 36 seconds is the applied duration.

However, if the same bleeds were cleansed t the 15 second mark, they would only last 2 more seconds, for a total of 17.

How is this good? Well, the Necro overall never entirely loses pressure to cleanses with this trait. Unless the enemy team completely locks you down for some time, there isn’t a point where your target is totally free of conditions. It strengthens the playstyle without forcing every other skill to be balanced around it.

Aside from possible breaking story/events (npc’sthat shouldn’t be dying die since the bleeds are re-applied after being cleansed), also what about our own cleanses from corruption skills/transferred conditions? We’re stuck with them as well.

If these points are adressed I must say that I like the idea especially uncleansable fear.

Well, Fear could still be broken with stunbreaks like it can now, but no more random shoutbow making it meaningless.

Perhaps it could be “conditions you apply to foes.”

Really what would happen is that when one of your applied conditions is removed, it would check the remaining time, then apply the same condition again with either the remaining time, or 2 seconds, whichever is less. This would prevent instant stacks on someone that went downed or went invulnerable, then cleansed.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well, Fear could still be broken with stunbreaks like it can now, but no more random shoutbow making it meaningless.

That I know.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Perhaps it could be “conditions you apply to foes.”

Sounds fine to me.

Really what would happen is that when one of your applied conditions is removed, it would check the remaining time, then apply the same condition again with either the remaining time, or 2 seconds, whichever is less. This would prevent instant stacks on someone that went downed or went invulnerable, then cleansed.

It depend on the order of coding. In a case like this cleanse, apply Determined. The conditionswould still be applied. It’s not only that I was worried about. It’s when an enemy npc would go low health and then shift alliances, those bleeds would still be reapplied and kill the npc.

So, we see a lot of people talking about how the Necromancer doesn’t get across the whole “attrition” idea very well, and I agree. The idea behind the class is that you want to get into a fight and stay there, being difficult to force out and acting as a constant source of pressure. This really doesn’t translate into our gameplay, however. In fact, the only role we really have right now is bursting people. A strong example, I think, is the way our elites work. While it makes sense for a class like the ele to get a transform ability with a shorter duration and long cooldown (since they are supposed to be bursty), it makes much less sense for a necro to suddenly get huge and two-shot you, or to be really difficult to kill for 20 seconds (and then go back to being squishy). With that in mind, I came up with some ideas to change our elites to better fit the “grind them down” mentality.

Deathly Claws- Every time you gain 10% Life Force from skills (not nearby deaths), you gain a charge of Deathly Claws. There is a 1 second cooldown on charge gain, and three charges can be stored at a time. If the ability is used when three charges are stored, Chilling Wind will also be emitted from the Necromancer.

The idea here is that, instead of transforming and pressing 1 for 20 seconds (which is boring), your elite is “Deathly Claws”. It’s greyed out normally, until you start building life force. Once you have built enough life force, you get a charge on your buff bar and you can cast the ability. This reduces one button gameplay and instead forces you to use more involved play patterns to get the most out of your elite. On a similar note…

Plague- When you apply conditions to an enemy or to yourself, you gain a Plague charge. Once you have reached 25 Plague charges, your Plague ability becomes usable. Plague lasts for 5 seconds. Plague charges can only be gained once per second. Plague grants 5 stacks of stability which last for 5 seconds.

The idea here is that you still transform into the plague cloud (and that you can use it quite frequently to increase your survivability) but it requires you to successfully apply conditions.

Both of these abilities would have the potential to create totally new builds centered around them, instead of just being tacked on to whatever build you happen to be using. Additionally, as mentioned above, they emphasize the things that make the necromancer unique (attrition-based gameplay and needing to cause harm to build up resources) while reducing balancing headaches like Wells → Lich Form burst.

The most concerning thing I heard in the Necro portion of the Specialization Ready Up was regarding Deathly Invigoration (I believe it was). They mentioned that the AoE heal will proc on going into DS instead of leaving it. They then specifically said that it meant the Necro wouldn’t receive the heal, but others would.

It gave a very close-minded impression, and it legitimately made my heart sink. It either means they don’t seem willing to consider the idea of allowing healing while in DS, or technologically they still won’t be able to support it.

Or I suppose, maybe they’re leaving that information for a big unveiling, but I’m doubting that.

Anchoku.8142:

What I do not understand is how every other profession can build something like a Necromancer and now we have seen a new profession and two elite lines with descriptions of further debuff and control skills.

GW2 doesn’t have enough gimmick mechanics to warrant the amount of classes and skills that it has available for any given player. Combat in this game is so shallow that it was natural to see a class or two left behind in the dust while other classes just do the same thing except more optimally. If you want a necromancer that has a distinct playstyle and impact on the field, then you need an extensive rework like the one I made.

Swamurabi.7890:

Zoso.8279:

Expand more on DS add a disengage or more mobility skills. Thats all I’d suggest. Necros need more mobility!

Problem is that the Necro isn’t supposed to be mobile, which should translate into the ability to keep others from disengaging, but doesn’t.

The other problem with lack of mobility is the simple fact that in sPvP, rotating is one of the keys to winning. To quote a Civil War officer, “get there firstest with the mostest” but if you are slowest, you have to be able to bring something else, which Necros don’t.

A pretty cool PvP trait would be when you hit someone while wurm is out the enemy switches places with the wurm.

Or even if you hit someone while in Spectal Walk the enemy ports to where you started SW.

Swapping spots sounds interesting I like the concept but don’t know if it fits with Necro. Position swapping fits the Mesmer more then the Necro imo. I do agree that Necro isn’t meant to have mobility but some form of disengage would be nice. SW works really well but if you use it up your basically done. Also I really like how SW works ATM hope it doesn’t change too much. If you can choose wether you can teleport yourself OR the enemies would be EPIC! I just don’t want to see the power creep from all the other classes and new profession leave us behind. High CC builds can own basically any Necro and since we don’t apply too many boons ripping Stab from us is not very hard. Basically my fear is with how powerful Rev and War will be after HoT releases and will we be able to at least disengage against them.

Zoso.8279:

Necro isn’t meant to have mobility

Says who? For what reason?

Erasmus.1624:

Zoso.8279:

Necro isn’t meant to have mobility

Says who? For what reason?

Necros are infamous for not having mobility. If it wasn’t meant then they would have real mobility skills. Teleports….leap…..etc… Reason is because they can be very tanky. At least thats the reason I think. Also didn’t mean to sound like a know it all x.x just giving my opinion.

Zoso.8279:

Necros are infamous for not having mobility.

We already know that. The question was “Why?”

Zoso.8279:

Reason is because they can be very tanky.

This obviously can’t be the case, otherwise nobody would be crying so hard about how necros are fodder in pvp and how they don’t have a lava font in pve.

Erasmus.1624:

Zoso.8279:

Necros are infamous for not having mobility.

We already know that. The question was “Why?”

Zoso.8279:

Reason is because they can be very tanky.

This obviously can’t be the case, otherwise nobody would be crying so hard about how necros are fodder in pvp and how they don’t have a lava font in pve.

They are incredibly tanky when fighting 1v1 fighting on a 3v3 or more they get ripped to shred because their defenses scale inversely with the number of enemies since life force is a limited resource instead of a static period of negated damage like shelter shield block distortion etc.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Erasmus.1624:

Zoso.8279:

Necros are infamous for not having mobility.

We already know that. The question was “Why?”

Zoso.8279:

Reason is because they can be very tanky.

This obviously can’t be the case, otherwise nobody would be crying so hard about how necros are fodder in pvp and how they don’t have a lava font in pve.

They are incredibly tanky when fighting 1v1 fighting on a 3v3 or more they get ripped to shred because their defenses scale inversely with the number of enemies since life force is a limited resource instead of a static period of negated damage like shelter shield block distortion etc.

So limited resource < static period of negated damage. Necromancer only has the former. I still don’t see why the guy who isn’t objectively as tanky as other classes deserves to be so devoid of non-WASD movement.

Erasmus.1624:

Zoso.8279:

Necros are infamous for not having mobility.

We already know that. The question was “Why?”

Zoso.8279:

Reason is because they can be very tanky.

This obviously can’t be the case, otherwise nobody would be crying so hard about how necros are fodder in pvp and how they don’t have a lava font in pve.

Reason for why : Too tanky

People don’t use DS to its full potential in PvP. DS if using traits properly can take huge amounts of damage but your basically stuck in place till you either die or get enough time to leave. Since we don’t have any invulnerability or anything similar you usually just die because your stuck in one spot and Necros not only are they bad with mobility they also lack in countering CC. Now with the new trait systems my build is completely changing and IDK how much damage DS will be able to take or how much more CC other classes will have.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Erasmus.1624:

Zoso.8279:

Necros are infamous for not having mobility.

We already know that. The question was “Why?”

Zoso.8279:

Reason is because they can be very tanky.

This obviously can’t be the case, otherwise nobody would be crying so hard about how necros are fodder in pvp and how they don’t have a lava font in pve.

They are incredibly tanky when fighting 1v1 fighting on a 3v3 or more they get ripped to shred because their defenses scale inversely with the number of enemies since life force is a limited resource instead of a static period of negated damage like shelter shield block distortion etc.

4v4+ is problem to Necro 3v3 we can still be very powerful imo. Lol just wanted to point that out even though we are basically saying the same thing xP

There is no justifiable reason necros should not have a mobility skill. If they pick up all their tanking skills, they lose all damage, both power and condi. So its a total trade off between power and tanking. And even then, there are tanky classes like warriors and guards. Warriors do damage and tank at the same time and have some of the best mobility in the game. Guardians just got a leap skill in their elite spec. So explain again how taking damage means we cant have mobility? Because necros are trash at taking damage (no blocks, no evades, no distortion…just high hp and then you hope you can take the kits), have probably the worst zerk damage in the game with rangers, provide no support, and condis, on the whole, are just the absolute worst.

There is no justifiable why. There is no reason. Necros just ARE bad. The question isnt why, the question is how do you fix it in a way that doesn’t jsut make it overpowered. Anyone can make an overpowerd set of necro traits, but how do we make a balanced set of necro traits.

Darwec.3784:

There is no justifiable reason necros should not have a mobility skill. If they pick up all their tanking skills, they lose all damage, both power and condi. So its a total trade off between power and tanking. And even then, there are tanky classes like warriors and guards. Warriors do damage and tank at the same time and have some of the best mobility in the game. Guardians just got a leap skill in their elite spec. So explain again how taking damage means we cant have mobility? Because necros are trash at taking damage (no blocks, no evades, no distortion…just high hp and then you hope you can take the kits), have probably the worst zerk damage in the game with rangers, provide no support, and condis, on the whole, are just the absolute worst.

There is no justifiable why. There is no reason. Necros just ARE bad. The question isnt why, the question is how do you fix it in a way that doesn’t jsut make it overpowered. Anyone can make an overpowerd set of necro traits, but how do we make a balanced set of necro traits.

Thats not completely true, a deathshroud/spectral power necro can rip newbies apart in a 2 v1 without losing a single health due to how tanky and bursty they can be. This however doesn’t apply in high ranked pvp since players know how to easily shut down a power necro through blinds and cc . In simple words when none of the players know how to play effectively a necro is kittenedly strong and when all of the players know how to play necro is kittenedly weak.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Thats not completely true, a deathshroud/spectral power necro can rip newbies apart

So it’s balanced by the bottom line then? Is that fair? Not that “press button receive second health bar” or “fall below 50% HP receive second health bar” are balanced at all really.

Darwec.3784:

There is no justifiable why. There is no reason. Necros just ARE bad. The question isnt why, the question is how do you fix it in a way that doesn’t jsut make it overpowered. Anyone can make an overpowerd set of necro traits, but how do we make a balanced set of necro traits.

You should just look at my rework of the necro.

Cogbyrn.7283:

The most concerning thing I heard in the Necro portion of the Specialization Ready Up was regarding Deathly Invigoration (I believe it was). They mentioned that the AoE heal will proc on going into DS instead of leaving it. They then specifically said that it meant the Necro wouldn’t receive the heal, but others would.

It gave a very close-minded impression, and it legitimately made my heart sink. It either means they don’t seem willing to consider the idea of allowing healing while in DS, or technologically they still won’t be able to support it.

Or I suppose, maybe they’re leaving that information for a big unveiling, but I’m doubting that.

I had the same impression when I saw the stream.
But I think the reason for their attitude in regards to healing through DS is simply that non of them play necro and therefore non of them have really thought it through and realized how absurd it is that the core defense of necros doesn’t work with the only form of sustain available to them.
One might assume that the one class without mobility, blocks, evades, invulnerability or stealth should have the best healing in game to compensate, especially when they have to maintain one of the biggest healt pools. But no, necros get 5k healing every 25 seconds to sustain 18k+ hp. Of course there’s the occasional regeneration or other minor things, but really, the only way to truly recover from a lot of damage is to get out of combat.
I guess it’s a start that we get some healing traits outside of Blood Magic like Spiteful Renewal, the improved Signet Mastery or a slightly buffed Parasitic Contagion, but still half of the time those traits simply won’t work and it is mind blowing to me that such an obvious design flaw has been allowed to stay in the game for almost 3 years.

Has there been an Arenanet response to this effort?

New idea on how to fix DS scaling without changing too much : Increase decay by a lot, but let necro take 0 damage while in it. FIXED. So easy.

Well still needs utilities in DS, but if it was like this, they wouldn’t even need to allow healing through DS…in fact they shouldn’t. Because then it would truely be OP.

Here is a thought; what if Necro got Mesmer-like glamours instead of shouts?

Feedback is a reflect
Null Field is an AoE boon strip and condition clear
Veil is stealth
And then there is portal.

If portal for Necromancer was vertical, green, and produced an Aatax minion with decaying health on the entry when Necro goes through…

Mesmer manipulations would have potential, too.

I dont believe necros should have mobility. But there is no justification to not giving us active defence which scales. Such as vigor, blocks and projectile defence. That defence is required in PvE. Not giving it to us is setting us up to be in an even more unpopular position when new challenging content comes out in HoT.

spoj.9672:

I dont believe necros should have mobility. But there is no justification to not giving us active defence which scales. Such as vigor, blocks and projectile defence. That defence is required in PvE. Not giving it to us is setting us up to be in an even more unpopular position when new challenging content comes out in HoT.

So you’d rather just stay in one place and eat damage but take no effects like everyone else in the game? Why not push for a playstyle that has more legitimate movement (no teleports) and can grant advantages with keen positioning/timing?

Erasmus.1624:

spoj.9672:

I dont believe necros should have mobility. But there is no justification to not giving us active defence which scales. Such as vigor, blocks and projectile defence. That defence is required in PvE. Not giving it to us is setting us up to be in an even more unpopular position when new challenging content comes out in HoT.

So you’d rather just stay in one place and eat damage but take no effects like everyone else in the game? Why not push for a playstyle that has more legitimate movement (no teleports) and can grant advantages with keen positioning/timing?

If we are not supposed to move out much gives us real stationary recovery or damage mitigation,even the cast times don’t allow for max use of what we have now. I’m tired of hearing “attrition,2 HP bars,good spot..”.

Mobility is not the only solution to fix our problems. Its a desirable solution. But its not needed and it fits even less with necro design than active defence does. Its much more reasonably to expect them to change their stance and give us more stationary avoidance than it is to make us highly mobile.

The idea of Necromancers being essentially dark-magic fueled artillery batteries is cool. Mobility really isn’t necessary in this game (outside of swiftness to move between spots sometimes), as long as you have these other tools to deal with damage.

spoj.9672:

Its much more reasonably to expect them to change their stance and give us more stationary avoidance than it is to make us highly mobile.

Well, this game’s combat is just something anyone can find in any other MMORPG. Might as well go all in instead of spending too much effort trying to keep it covered up as poorly as they do. If you’re looking for something different, feel free to ask me for a solution.

Really? Because the whole reason i have stayed with this game is because the combat is completely unique.

Erasmus.1624:

spoj.9672:

Its much more reasonably to expect them to change their stance and give us more stationary avoidance than it is to make us highly mobile.

Well, this game’s combat is just something anyone can find in any other MMORPG. Might as well go all in instead of spending too much effort trying to keep it covered up as poorly as they do. If you’re looking for something different, feel free to ask me for a solution.

I have yet to see an MMO come anywhere near GW2 in PvP potential. Age of Conan I thought was a hoot, but they made it heavily gear/grind-based and ruined the experience for me. TERA had promise, but gear was more influential in that game than most from what I could tell, and there were too many instant-cast things that would ruin your day if you didn’t guess they were about to happen and dodge.

Every time I stop playing GW2, I end up looking back over my shoulder at it and playing again. The reason is because the combat experience is so unique, combined with the ease of jumping into PvP without worrying about gear.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Erasmus.1624:

spoj.9672:

Its much more reasonably to expect them to change their stance and give us more stationary avoidance than it is to make us highly mobile.

Well, this game’s combat is just something anyone can find in any other MMORPG. Might as well go all in instead of spending too much effort trying to keep it covered up as poorly as they do. If you’re looking for something different, feel free to ask me for a solution.

I have yet to see an MMO come anywhere near GW2 in PvP potential. Age of Conan I thought was a hoot, but they made it heavily gear/grind-based and ruined the experience for me. TERA had promise, but gear was more influential in that game than most from what I could tell, and there were too many instant-cast things that would ruin your day if you didn’t guess they were about to happen and dodge.

Every time I stop playing GW2, I end up looking back over my shoulder at it and playing again. The reason is because the combat experience is so unique, combined with the ease of jumping into PvP without worrying about gear.

Are PvP system specifically? C9 has the greatest to me Vindictus came close enough.

Edit: It’s not doing so good right now unfortunately but here are some of my favorite combos.

spoj.9672:

Really? Because the whole reason i have stayed with this game is because the combat is completely unique.

Do you actually aim anything once you get into range? If not, you’re playing the same MMORPG everyone has been playing for two decades now. GW2 was pretty close to being something a little more than that too what with the analog movement. Shame even that is dreadfully slow and “mobility” is really all just scripted tracks for the most part.

Truth be told, GW1 was more innovative than GW2 when it comes to games marketed as “MMORPG.” If that game had analog movement, scripted, fast leap sequences, ground targeted attacks and jumping, it’d be quite the set-up.

Erasmus.1624:

spoj.9672:

Really? Because the whole reason i have stayed with this game is because the combat is completely unique.

Do you actually aim anything once you get into range? If not, you’re playing the same MMORPG everyone has been playing for two decades now. GW2 was pretty close to being something a little more than that too what with the analog movement. Shame even that is dreadfully slow and “mobility” is really all just scripted tracks for the most part.

Truth be told, GW1 was more innovative than GW2 when it comes to games marketed as “MMORPG.” If that game had analog movement, scripted, fast leap sequences, ground targeted attacks and jumping, it’d be quite the set-up.

Oh my. That’s more short-sighted than I thought it was going to be. To completely ignore dodging as a mechanic, I guess because not all abilities are aimed? That’s pretty astounding. Being able to dodge abilities changes everything.

I don’t think GW2 does anything unique, but it brings many different components together in a system that is easy to use and understand. Aiming in an MMO is a tricky proposition, because often MMOs have higher latencies than other games which can host fewer people on custom servers. Aiming also makes for a more niche experience that is more difficult to start up in from another MMO in a very competitive market.

But I’m digressing. I played I think a few thousand hours or so of GW2, then I played a few other MMOs. Not being able to dodge is like a smack in the face that forces you to approach situations entirely differently. It changes the game, even without aiming.

Also, you basically said “GW1 would be quite the set-up if it wasn’t GW1”. I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.

Following utilities working in DS, Signet Mastery should improve/add something to the passive and active SoPl would gain healing per condition absorbed and grant LF per those transferred, SoPo would grant 2 stacks of might every 10 sec active would apply the conditions in an AoE 360 radius.

So.. new traits… I really only play conditions so, lets see…..

The Spite trait line has nothing that I would want.
_______

Curses: the first minor trait is 66% chance to bleed on crit, 20% bleed duration. I hate this trait; if I don’t have to have crit, I won’t have crit. Condi damage, duration, toughness, vitality… no crit. To make matters worse, power necros are proc’ing bleeds, and knocking mine off….

The first group of major traits offers nothing all that special. Weakening Shroud will do.. i guess..

Minor trait… fury when entering DS… worthless….

2nd set of majors: crap, crap, and warhorn….

minor trait… 2% crit chance for each condition… crap…

3rd level majors: Lingering Curses, Parasitic Contagion, and Terror…. I don’t know how to choose… only one?
______

Death Magic: minor crap-ish.. it’ll do (doo-doo)… major… Putrid Defense 10% less damage from poisoned foes… The first exciting change I’ve seen.

Minor crap… Major… greater murks is a must have….

Minor is crap…. 3rd major set…. nothing special….
_______

Blood Magic: Minor…. regen at 90% life… i like that… Major mark of evasion.. must have.

Minor… Vampiric is really good. Majors… nothing special… the new dagger trait only works at high health? ugh…

Minor… crap.. +300 healing power while under 75% of full health.. gah!…

Major… crap.. crap.. I cast a heal, when I enter death shroud? Is that an insult? Some kind of joke?
_________

Soul Reaping:… Minor.. nothing special.. Major.. Staff recharge? Why is that here? … ok.. must have… Lingering Curses, Putrid Defense/Greater Marks, Mark of Evasion, and now Soul Marks.. that’s 4 trait lines…..

crap, crap, crap crap crap…. dumbfire….

So.. I am supposed to choose between a Staff/dumbfire/terror build, or a tanky Scepter/minion build?

As it is right now, a necro can have both, and they’ll still suck. So if we are so totally committed to one weapon, what are we supposed to swap to? Nothing?

Conditions are already looking subpar, since I can’t spec into 4 lines, I can only assume that the great sword trait line is only going to make this that much more frustrating…

I don’t see how this is supposed to work.

@Ezeriel Curses is a precision/condition damage line the minors make sense but yes most of the trait are really underwhelming.

Sagat.3285:

@Ezeriel Curses is a precision/condition damage line the minors make sense but yes most of the trait are really underwhelming.

Specializations are losing stats, iirc.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Sagat.3285:

@Ezeriel Curses is a precision/condition damage line the minors make sense but yes most of the trait are really underwhelming.

Specializations are losing stats, iirc.

Yes but they retain their purposes you won’t find Close to Death in Blood Magic or Deathly Perception in Death Magic.

They lose stats but they still retain their theme. Spite is direct damage/non damaging conditions, Curses is damaging conditions/crit procs, Death Magic is minions/defense, Blood Magic is support/healing, Soul Reaping is Death Shroud/Life Force. The loss of stats won’t change that.

Bhawb.7408:

They lose stats but they still retain their theme. Spite is direct damage/non damaging conditions, Curses is damaging conditions/crit procs, Death Magic is minions/defense, Blood Magic is support/healing, Soul Reaping is Death Shroud/Life Force. The loss of stats won’t change that.

Well most of the major traits in curses lost their crit options

Cogbyrn.7283:

To completely ignore dodging as a mechanic,

Given dodge’s base recharge rate and total resource pool, does an instant, nearly static block (the distance traveled while dodging isn’t exactly tremendous) which lasts 0.75 s really add a lot to combat that is governed by tab targeting? Clearly it doesn’t contribute a lot given how the average player mitigates most damage through other forms of invulnerability or passive healing. Sometimes I wonder why they didn’t just make “dodge” into a half-second, channeled parry to be used while WASD’ing and then fill weapon bars with more skills dedicated entirely to raw movement instead of things like “Throw Axe.” At least then combat might look a little bit different because melee players wouldn’t have to worry about dodging out of position from cleave range while mitigating damage and all players would just use their unique movement abilities to move about quickly if they needed.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Aiming in an MMO is a tricky proposition, because often MMOs have higher latencies than other games which can host fewer people on custom servers.

Exactly, which is why instead of aiming, MMORPGs tend to focus on windows of opportunity instead of aiming. Only trouble is that gw2’s timeframes are insufferably long and ridiculously forgiving for them to be called dynamic or skillful. Unfortunately, it’s far too easy to kill any given player in gw2, so they had to imbalance individual player survival in order to keep up with the already imbalanced player damage. It’s easy to see that much given how weak necromancers are in combat and how they coincidentally also don’t have static invulnerability or vigor.

That said, GTAoEs are still a form of manual aiming (even though most of them too big to miss). It’s also very possible to play with targeting off. Latency seems to be as much of an interloper as it is in any other online game and not drastically worse due to gw2’s supposed genre. Even so, introducing manual projectile aim into gw2 isn’t the way to make it better. The way to make it better is to tighten up overly forgiving invulnerability time frames, give players more non-teleport mobility options, make circles smaller, introduce more directional attacks, whittle down CC, and reemphasize direct damage as the primary means of killing enemies. And even then, let’s be honest: if anet was willing to go so far with directional attacks as they did with the revenant, do you really think that latency is a big issue to them? Why should it be for you?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, you basically said “GW1 would be quite the set-up if it wasn’t GW1”. I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make.

While it would be a big change, the main pillars of gw1 were build customization, the attribute system, the diverse mechanic pool and the varied PvE/PvP encounters. Improving player movement and mobility in that game would probably have something like a dervish update effect instead of warranting a “GW1.5” release.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Well most of the major traits in curses lost their crit options

Every single minor trait has crit on it, and the only on-crit we lost was one that was basically never taken because it was garbage.

Bhawb.7408:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Well most of the major traits in curses lost their crit options

Every single minor trait has crit on it, and the only on-crit we lost was one that was basically never taken because it was garbage.

Now that you mention it you are completely right, the only reason I picked curses for my power build is the damage modifier (changing to crit boost) and the base precision. None of the majors support a power build (now or in HoT), we really need new traits in curses.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Bhawb.7408:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Well most of the major traits in curses lost their crit options

Every single minor trait has crit on it, and the only on-crit we lost was one that was basically never taken because it was garbage.

Now that you mention it you are completely right, the only reason I picked curses for my power build is the damage modifier (changing to crit boost) and the base precision. None of the majors support a power build (now or in HoT), we really need new traits in curses.

I mean, its also arguably useful for the fury on DS but you can make that up in other places. Especially if your party is giving fury like it should.

So regarding this thread that has tons of information, how much of it do you think will make it to the specialization? I mean, seeing as how we will probably see the necro specialization this friday, would they have had any time to implement any of our suggestions they deemed suitable?

Jelzouki.4128:

So regarding this thread that has tons of information, how much of it do you think will make it to the specialization? I mean, seeing as how we will probably see the necro specialization this friday, would they have had any time to implement any of our suggestions they deemed suitable?

That will be about the elite specialisation this thread is about core ones and base necro, a “we are looking at your feedback” or a"we are working on DS limitations outside of the elite specialisation"would still be greatly appreciated.

ohhhh, okay yeah.

So do you think there will be room for change between now and the trait update?

Have the Dev’s even seen our suggestions, or are they going to give us the spec, in hopes it will shut us up and then they will just casually forget about the problems to our class?

I can just see them giving us the spec, and then forgetting that our base class has so many issues.

The devs don’t care that much about player suggestions or don’t have time to consider them. I’ve already said it before, but necro’s future hinges on anet providing the specialization with enough overtuned numbers to bump it into meta tier. Stock classes aren’t changing because anet lacks the imagination and resources.