Guild Wars 2

I just heard this on the SOTG. I’m pretty excited about it, even if they couldn’t say what it was or what it did. They did use the phrase, “down the pipe.” I take that to mean, “Sometime this summer, but not next patch.” Also, our minions will be getting extra HP. I’m working, so I couldn’t pay super close attention to it. Anyone else hear anything good I might have missed?

Also…poor D/D Ele. Getting the Nerf Hammer dropped on them pretty hard it seems.

:’(

Link to the SOTG? Also I have no sympathy for the D/D ele, that build has been ridiculous for way too long.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/396007412

Edit: Necro discussion starts at 54:00.

krippler.9826:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/396007412

Thanks!

PinCushion.7390:

I’m pretty excited about it

lol come on

Bellocchi.4593:

PinCushion.7390:

I’m pretty excited about it

lol come on

Hey, it doesn’t take much at my age.

PinCushion.7390:

Also, our minions will be getting extra HP

Yes, cause that is what we need, extra hp on our minions so they annoy us longer with being totally and utterly useless. Those minions spaz out more than someone who can count till potato.

More HP will still good, we’ve been asking for more survivability and HP will do that. If you don’t like minions don’t use them.

lets hope it’s something that is useful to both power and condition builds,

unlike terror for instance.

since we lack mobility and easy access to vigor, i hope it is a condition that reflects damage so we can gain some life force without killing our hp.

Interviewers suggest and borderline beg for at least 4 buffs besides questioning the fact that dodge denies marks, still question the choice of no swap in DS.
Devs – Eh… we dunno, Necros might become too strong or something I guess…

I’m still convinced that the Devs are slightly clueless about Necros.

That 5th DS skill better blow me away.

My reaction to 5 slot mention = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceU4ANZKdOM type of awesome
Mention to special condition (god i hope its spiteful spirits little sister in terms of aoe punishment) it turned into this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsPgp_1j0fc type of awesome

Note that they also announced changes to pet/minion AI, so (for example) they won’t aggro things so much any more.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Interviewers suggest and borderline beg for at least 4 buffs besides questioning the fact that dodge denies marks, still question the choice of no swap in DS.
Devs – Eh… we dunno, Necros might become too strong or something I guess…

I’m still convinced that the Devs are slightly clueless about Necros.

That 5th DS skill better blow me away.

I LOLed at that part.

Paraphrased-

Interviewer:
“So, is it fair that a Necro can set all his marks out and I can just dodge through them all and destroy them with nothing bad happening to me?”

ANet Dev:
“Well, why wouldn’t you spread them out more and put the shorter CD ones in the front”

Or perhaps…

Interviewer:
“Have you considered making Greater Marks come stock with staff, since nobody uses staff without it?”

ANet Dev:
“Are you trying to say that staff stinks without the trait?”

Interviewer:
“….yes.”

ANet Dev:
“mutter..mutter…looking into it…”

Bhawb.7408:

More HP will still good, we’ve been asking for more survivability and HP will do that. If you don’t like minions don’t use them.

upon further consideration I think this is a bad idea.

The pets don’t need more HP, they need more toughness.

The last thing I need is my effective healing to be reduced on my pets.

HP pool on them right now seems about right compared to the healing I can give them in my MM build they just need to be tougher against DD aoe.

Dredlord.8076:

Bhawb.7408:

More HP will still good, we’ve been asking for more survivability and HP will do that. If you don’t like minions don’t use them.

upon further consideration I think this is a bad idea.

The pets don’t need more HP, they need more toughness.

The last thing I need is my effective healing to be reduced on my pets.

HP pool on them right now seems about right compared to the healing I can give them in my MM build they just need to be tougher against DD aoe.

They’re buffing HP on ALL minions/pets (Necro, Ranger, and Engi) so they’ll be more viable in dungeons, fractals, and WvW. It’s so they’ll survive AoE a bit better, and I think they’re changing more than just raw HP totals. Hitpoints was all I could remember from the interview.

cbabd.8053:

Note that they also announced changes to pet/minion AI, so (for example) they won’t aggro things so much any more.

Minion combat ai aint that much of a problem as ai interaction with pathing commands.
Like walking in orr and pulling 20 mobs is kinda easy to deal with (despite the in combat slow), golem, bone minion and shadow fiend getting stuck on a freaking branch, a small enviormental object you walk over, actually is quite the problem.

Dredlord.8076:

upon further consideration I think this is a bad idea.

The pets don’t need more HP, they need more toughness.

The last thing I need is my effective healing to be reduced on my pets.

HP pool on them right now seems about right compared to the healing I can give them in my MM build they just need to be tougher against DD aoe.

It won’t be reduced, a 200 heal still heals for exactly the same whether their HP is 1k or 10000000000. Increasing toughness does very little, because they are still recyclable, toughness only outpaces HP over many heals. Not to mention that is a very specific thing, not every MM build goes high healing.

Otherwise, I like the way they are approaching changes overall (the Necro 2 big changes made me happy on the inside), although it seems like they are overly concerned with condition necromancer builds (which is probably because its all that is played) while at least not talking much at all about others (except minions indirectly).

I shouldn’t listen to these dev interviews anymore, I just lose all confidence in the game balancing.

It’s like this is the first MMO they have any experience with at all. They just seem like really slow learners.

The thief comments, we want them to be the most mobile, most bursty and be able to enter stealth in combat at will and stay there if they want to and they want them to have more healing and survivability.

sotg spvp interview a while back “we think ele is fine”

this interview to summarize “we are nerfing the ele”

They should stop doing these interviews, stop trying to resuscitate the dead cow that is spvp and start working on wvw where the vast majority of their customers are.

Don’t have a lot of time, but as Bhawb said increasing HP has no negative effect on healing effectiveness because Heals are hard numbers and not by % means that you will always heal the same. In addition Regen also ticks individually, so you’re not healing faster one way or another except you are given the illusion of healing for more because your health bar refills quicker.

The only way this change negatively effects Minions is in the Fractals as it means Agony will do them more damage making it harder to heal minions effectively.

They can give to minions all the HP they want, but untill the golem (aka an ELITE SKILL) can’t swim… just meh

Interviewers suggest and borderline beg for at least 4 buffs besides questioning the fact that dodge denies marks, still question the choice of no swap in DS.
Devs – Eh… we dunno, Necros might become too strong or something I guess…

roflmao that made my day
Did they really work for this game?
Dear Devs, tell us something about all the OP class/builds in this game, aren’t they too strong?

Just listened to the Necromancer section.

“So offer some suggestions about what you want to see as that new condition / fifth slot.”

They have no idea what they’ve brought upon themselves.

The marks thing was a valid point; if you are stacking all your marks in one spot, you are asking for someone to dodge roll through them. I did it to a Necro last night (its on video), my friend was actually right next to me telling me to watch out, then just laughed as I dodged rolled completely through all of the Necros marks and went on to contest the point.

@Softspoken, wasn’t that a thread like… a couple days ago? Just bump that and continue the conversation there.

Ratphink.4751:

Don’t have a lot of time, but as Bhawb said increasing HP has no negative effect on healing effectiveness because Heals are hard numbers and not by % means that you will always heal the same. In addition Regen also ticks individually, so you’re not healing faster one way or another except you are given the illusion of healing for more because your health bar refills quicker.

The only way this change negatively effects Minions is in the Fractals as it means Agony will do them more damage making it harder to heal minions effectively.

I am sorry but you are both clueless on this one.

increasing toughness also increases effective healing to argue otherwise is ignorant.

if my choice is more hp or toughness with the result of both being better minion survivability I will take the one that increases my effective healing as well.

in addition to that many classes/builds that use increased damage below a certain HP % so this is another additional benefit of higher effective healing.

If they increase the HP on minions, that does absolutely nothing to your healing. Your 200 heal is still exactly as effective as your previous one.

What Bhawb is saying is that you do not sacrifice survivability with toughness or HP. You still heal them for the same amount.

Bhawb.7408:

If they increase the HP on minions, that does absolutely nothing to your healing. Your 200 heal is still exactly as effective as your previous one.

exactly, and that is why toughness is better, because it does increase my EFFECTIVE healing.

if you want me to explain it I’ll jump on mumble with you but you seem like you are trying not to understand the concept as hard as you can right now.

I know how healing works. The point remains you originally said that not raising toughness reduces your healing. That is not the case and was the only thing I addressed.

For toughness vs HP, toughness only benefits specific builds; ones that heal their minions. Otherwise everything short of a huge toughness buff doesn’t really matter to the rest of us. An HP buff, however, still benefits healing builds (you still heal for exactly the same eHP per second as unbuffed), but also benefits non-healing builds.

Bhawb.7408:

@Softspoken, wasn’t that a thread like… a couple days ago? Just bump that and continue the conversation there.

That thread is once every two weeks, without them inviting the topic. What I’m implying is that they might get a more vigorous abundant response than they expected.

Bhawb.7408:

I know how healing works. The point remains you originally said that not raising toughness reduces your healing. That is not the case and was the only thing I addressed.

no I didn’t, I said it reduces my effective healing, which it does.

I hope so. I think it is a great precedent (we now have precedent for more conditions/boons) and also a great opportunity for some more interesting play with Necros, and also something that we can do well that is niche.

Dredlord.8076:

no I didn’t, I said it reduces my effective healing, which it does.

Please define what you are meaning by effective healing then. Because to my knowledge, effective healing is how much eHP you have actually restored, which is (health restored) X (damage reduction). If health restored stays the same, which it does, and damage reduced stays the same, which it does, then nothing has changed. Your eHealing is exactly the same, it is only a smaller portion of their health. It remains that increasing HP increase their survivability in every single build type very nicely, while increasing toughness is only helpful for healing builds.

Bhawb.7408:

while increasing toughness is only helpful for healing builds.

I see now, this is where you are having trouble understanding…

toughness increases survivability in EVERY single build because it reduces damage the minions take (this is what we are after).

In healing builds it has the ADDED benefit of increasing effective healing.

Dredlord.8076:

Bhawb.7408:

while increasing toughness is only helpful for healing builds.

I see now, this is where you are having trouble understanding…

toughness increases survivability in EVERY single build because it reduces damage the minions take (this is what we are after).

In healing builds it has the ADDED benefit of increasing effective healing.

For the record: Toughness doesn’t increase survivability against condition damage.

After watching the interview, here’s a few things I came away with:

1) The devs repeated a few times that the focus of this patch is balance; next month’s patch will be bug fixes. That can only be a good thing for Necromancers.

2) For warriors, the trait “Turtle’s Defense” will now be replaced by a new trait “Dogged March”

Why is this important to Necromancers? Because it demonstrates a willingness to actually change an entire trait. For all those who hate Reanimator, this introduces the possibility of hope.

3) A warrior trait will be changed (can’t recall the specific name) to increase damage by 3% for each boon their target has on them.

This goes back to the previous interview in which the devs spoke of “boon hate”. This change to the warrior trait demonstrates they are now incorporating it into the game. If they can give this to warriors, it then becomes possible to see Necros gain access to it as well.

4) While addressing changes to rangers, the devs said pets (including minions) will no longer aggro a mob their owner has not aggroed. Furthermore, when a player enters combat and has aggroed a mob, pets (and – without them explicitly stating it – hopefully minions, as well) who don’t currently have that aggro themselves will attempt to move behind/around an enemy to stay out of cleave range.

Lastly, they state pet toughness and HP are being increased. At first, the devs make it sound like this change applies across the board (pets, minions, phantasms). However, when they spoke specifically of changes to the necro, they state that only Flesh Wurm and Flesh Golem HP will be increased. They make no further mention of HP increases for the other minions or increases to toughness for any minion.

At a minimum, it appears minions will no longer aggro a mob their owner hasn’t aggroed and Flesh Wurm and Flesh Golem will see some HP increase.

5) Corrupt Boon and Epidemic are now unblockable.

An improvement that will hopefully see an increase in positive hits. Don’t know if a single blade of grass will still obstruct your Epidemic’s line of sight, though.

6) The 5th slot of Death Shroud is currently empty. The devs are considering filling it with a new skill in a future patch. They were leaning towards what they described as a “dark-themed damage-over-time” condition. They also hinted that this new condition would first be seen on the necromancer, but would not be exclusive to necromancers (aka. the whole “fear-will-be-a-necromancer-only-condition” debacle all over again). However, they left open the possibility that the 5th slot could be filled by something else and want to hear feedback on what players feel it should be.

Filling that 5th slot in Death Shroud sure would be nice. For those in favor of seeing that slot claimed by a new skill that is dependent on the weapon a necromancer is wielding at the moment you enter DS, this is the opportunity to have your voices heard. Yes, I admit to my own bias in wanting to see that slot become a weapon-dependent skill that synergizes with our builds. There are some pre-existing threads regarding this topic, so I won’t rehash it here.

7) In the same way they are doing with thieves, the devs state that trait compression is something they feel worth looking into for necros.

Using an example of my own that was NOT stated by the devs, that would be like rolling Greater Marks and Staff Mastery into a single trait. We won’t see any changes regarding this approach for this patch, but it does bode well for necromancers if they follow through with trait compression in future patches. I think necromancers would stand to gain quite a lot from trait compression.

With regards to the comments regarding marks that were referenced by other posters above, I think the issue was in part that the devs had a difficult time understanding the interviewer’s question because of his accent (no offense intended; just simply stating my impression). I took the interviewer’s question to be, “Would you consider making default marks (that is, the necromancer has not chosen any traits that affect marks) as large as they are when affected by the Greater Marks trait minus the unblockable aspect?” In other words, simply make the baseline marks twice as large as they are now.

I think the devs heard “Greater Marks” and “default/untraited marks” in the same sentence and assumed the interviewer was asking that default marks be turned into Greater Marks (large AND unblockable). This was not what the interviewer was asking. But because of the misunderstanding, the devs hemmed and hawed over it because they thought their misinterpretation of the question would make default marks overpowered (which it arguably would).

Now if I could just see a little lovin’ for the blood necro, I’d be a happy little vampire ^,..,^

Softspoken.2410:

Dredlord.8076:

Bhawb.7408:

while increasing toughness is only helpful for healing builds.

I see now, this is where you are having trouble understanding…

toughness increases survivability in EVERY single build because it reduces damage the minions take (this is what we are after).

In healing builds it has the ADDED benefit of increasing effective healing.

For the record: Toughness doesn’t increase survivability against condition damage.

for the record: the necro has abilities to deal with conditions on allies, but you already knew that right?

Dredlord.8076:

Softspoken.2410:

Dredlord.8076:

Bhawb.7408:

while increasing toughness is only helpful for healing builds.

I see now, this is where you are having trouble understanding…

toughness increases survivability in EVERY single build because it reduces damage the minions take (this is what we are after).

In healing builds it has the ADDED benefit of increasing effective healing.

For the record: Toughness doesn’t increase survivability against condition damage.

for the record: the necro has abilities to deal with conditions on allies, but you already knew that right?

That I did! Now let’s see which post the readers think is more relevant.

Softspoken.2410:

Dredlord.8076:

Softspoken.2410:

Dredlord.8076:

Bhawb.7408:

while increasing toughness is only helpful for healing builds.

I see now, this is where you are having trouble understanding…

toughness increases survivability in EVERY single build because it reduces damage the minions take (this is what we are after).

In healing builds it has the ADDED benefit of increasing effective healing.

For the record: Toughness doesn’t increase survivability against condition damage.

for the record: the necro has abilities to deal with conditions on allies, but you already knew that right?

That I did! Now let’s see which post the readers think is more relevant.

I don’t think any of them are relevant to the topic of this thread. It’s turning into a derailment discussing the pros and cons of increased health versus increased toughness for minions. This isn’t to say that it isn’t worthy of discussion. Perhaps it would be best to create a new topic to debate the issue.

In the meantime, there’s a window of opportunity here for the necromancer community to influence the 5th skill slot of Death Shroud. As you asked the opinion of the readers, I’m stating my opinion as one reader that I’d like to see the thread get back on topic.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Softspoken.2410:

Dredlord.8076:

for the record: the necro has abilities to deal with conditions on allies, but you already knew that right?

That I did! Now let’s see which post the readers think is more relevant.

I don’t think any of them are relevant to the topic of this thread. It’s turning into a derailment discussing the pros and cons of increased health versus increased toughness for minions. This isn’t to say that it isn’t worthy of discussion. Perhaps it would be best to create a new topic to debate the issue.

In the meantime, there’s a window of opportunity here for the necromancer community to influence the 5th skill slot of Death Shroud. As you asked the opinion of the readers, I’m stating my opinion as one reader that I’d like to see the thread get back on topic.

Point taken. Gonna reply to parts of your other post first though since I liked it!

After watching the interview, here’s a few things I came away with:

2) For warriors, the trait “Turtle’s Defense” will now be replaced by a new trait “Dogged March”

Why is this important to Necromancers? Because it demonstrates a willingness to actually change an entire trait. For all those who hate Reanimator, this introduces the possibility of hope.

4) While addressing changes to rangers, the devs said pets (including minions) will no longer aggro a mob their owner has not aggroed. Furthermore, when a player enters combat and has aggroed a mob, pets (and – without them explicitly stating it – hopefully minions, as well) who don’t currently have that aggro themselves will attempt to move behind/around an enemy to stay out of cleave range.

6) The 5th slot of Death Shroud is currently empty. The devs are considering filling it with a new skill in a future patch. They were leaning towards what they described as a “dark-themed damage-over-time” condition. They also hinted that this new condition would first be seen on the necromancer, but would not be exclusive to necromancers (aka. the whole “fear-will-be-a-necromancer-only-condition” debacle all over again). However, they left open the possibility that the 5th slot could be filled by something else and want to hear feedback on what players feel it should be.

Filling that 5th slot in Death Shroud sure would be nice. For those in favor of seeing that slot claimed by a new skill that is dependent on the weapon a necromancer is wielding at the moment you enter DS, this is the opportunity to have your voices heard. Yes, I admit to my own bias in wanting to see that slot become a weapon-dependent skill that synergizes with our builds. There are some pre-existing threads regarding this topic, so I won’t rehash it here.

7) In the same way they are doing with thieves, the devs state that trait compression is something they feel worth looking into for necros.

Using an example of my own that was NOT stated by the devs, that would be like rolling Greater Marks and Staff Mastery into a single trait. We won’t see any changes regarding this approach for this patch, but it does bode well for necromancers if they follow through with trait compression in future patches. I think necromancers would stand to gain quite a lot from trait compression.

2- Yep. Changing around traits is a really good sign. I know that thieves want to see something done with last refuge as well. I don’t think we’ll see those changes for a while (At least 2 months), but they’re getting closer.

4- I’m really interested to see if the new pathing changes some minion AI bugs. I’ve read a couple theories that the reason some minions start refusing to attack is that they can’t path to their desired location, so they just pace and wait for the spot to open up. I don’t know how true / likely they are, but with other mentions of improved AI… I’m optimistic.

6- For my earlier whining about it, this could lead to some really interesting threads. I usually kind of frowned on the “Adding a New Condition” threads because I felt like they would just add needless complication to the game system, but if the Devs are looking for suggestions…

7- Trait compression could be amazing for things like minion builds, if you ask me. Some other examples that come to mind include Spectral Attunement / Spectral Mastery and the Life Blast traits. (The piercing + vulnerability and the might stacking one.)

As for actual suggestions about DS5? Having it be weapon dependant, but always apply the new condition in some way would be nice. As for the condition, the first thing that came to mind was something that did more damage if you removed it, and was always removed before other conditions. The point would be to use it as a sort of ‘cover condition’, to match the idea of ‘cover hexes’ from the original Guild Wars.

This…

Kiriakulos.1690:

Kiriakulos.1690:

Interviewers suggest and borderline beg for at least 4 buffs besides questioning the fact that dodge denies marks, still question the choice of no swap in DS.
Devs – Eh… we dunno, Necros might become too strong or something I guess…

I’m still convinced that the Devs are slightly clueless about Necros.

That 5th DS skill better blow me away.

I LOLed at that part.

Paraphrased-

Interviewer:
“So, is it fair that a Necro can set all his marks out and I can just dodge through them all and destroy them with nothing bad happening to me?”

ANet Dev:
“Well, why wouldn’t you spread them out more and put the shorter CD ones in the front”

Or perhaps…

Interviewer:
“Have you considered making Greater Marks come stock with staff, since nobody uses staff without it?”

ANet Dev:
“Are you trying to say that staff stinks without the trait?”

Interviewer:
“….yes.”

ANet Dev:
“mutter..mutter…looking into it…”

and this…

Just listened to the Necromancer section.

“So offer some suggestions about what you want to see as that new condition / fifth slot.”

They have no idea what they’ve brought upon themselves.

Means that they really have no idea what the necro class is or where it stands.
Really, more of the “Its fine, L2P” coming from this dev team. Kinda the whole design premise I guess, small changes and long waits for the meta to stabilize.
Really, we’re not going to see much as long as the social understanding is that “WvW needs necros.”

Also, why was the state of the game all about spvp. Seriously, 90% of the changes discussed and commentary by ‘the devs’ and guru were in direct reference to pvp. Biggest departure from this was “We’re removing pet agro and increasing pet health and responsiveness so they open more play styles.” And, the immediate response was, “Uhh how is that going to balance when rangers sit on the back node and send their pet to help in the center fight?”

Maybe they don’t spectate LFG chat for fractals … or they would see a more comprehensive meta.

Honestly, I was very hopeful that necro would gain some boon hate “down the pipeline.” Hey, maybe that’s my idea for ‘Number 5’: Corruption, does (X) damage over (Y) second and increases in (Z%) damage and durration for each boon and condition effect on the target.

Maybe its time to play the mesmer more.

The secondary effect of the new “dark” dot is going to be interesting. Any thoughts as to what would be a good option?

How about a condition that does more damage the longer it is in effect (caps out at some point)? I also like the idea of this condition doing direct damage if it gets removed, and is always the first to be removed so it provides a bit of cover for your bleeds. This gives players the option of taking burst damage now, which could potentially kill you, or let it tick and not take burst.

The skill itself should also changed depending on what weapon you have equipped. I don’t like the idea of shutting out all builds that don’t use condition damage with this one.

BAMBOO.9430:

Snip.

GW2Guru’s SOTG is sPvP focused. That would probably explain why we talked about sPvP.

Cheers!

I would like to see one of those very neat looking Orrian conditions, such as Dwayna’s Lament and what not.

Kravick.4906:

How about a condition that does more damage the longer it is in effect (caps out at some point)? I also like the idea of this condition doing direct damage if it gets removed, and is always the first to be removed so it provides a bit of cover for your bleeds. This gives players the option of taking burst damage now, which could potentially kill you, or let it tick and not take burst.

The skill itself should also changed depending on what weapon you have equipped. I don’t like the idea of shutting out all builds that don’t use condition damage with this one.

You could try and combine the two for an effect like the old Rising Bile: deals no damage until it expires or is removed, but deals more damage the longer it was allowed to run.

I’d love something that provides an explicit condition cover, possibly with the option of requiring multiple cleanses to clear all stacks. Sort of like a condition cleanse based version of Defiant.

Decay: Deals condition damage every second. Additional damage is dealt to the target when a condition expires or is removed.

Softspoken.2410:

You could try and combine the two for an effect like the old Rising Bile: deals no damage until it expires or is removed, but deals more damage the longer it was allowed to run.

I’d love something that provides an explicit condition cover, possibly with the option of requiring multiple cleanses to clear all stacks. Sort of like a condition cleanse based version of Defiant.

Oh I totally forgot about that skill. Hell, they should just do this. Bring back Rising Bile.

Rising Bile is amazing.

Bhawb.7408:

The secondary effect of the new “dark” dot is going to be interesting. Any thoughts as to what would be a good option?

how about an effect that punishes condition removal?

Nord.5360:

BAMBOO.9430:

Snip.

GW2Guru’s SOTG is sPvP focused. That would probably explain why we talked about sPvP.

Cheers!

Ahh, point taken.
I assumed that state of the game was, well, the state of the game.

Not that talking about s/tPvP is a bad thing.