Guild Wars 2

Can it be changed to 1-2% Life-force every second instead? Currently its really not worth the slot.

I think that the passive is both under-powered but also, ironically, the passive regen is about as potent as it can become. Perhaps adding a %chance for Life Force proc, such as on critical, on attack, on hit, or some other such criteria would be ideal. Passive regen of Life Force is really powerful, and while I feel the overall strength of this Sigil needs a buff, this particular aspect (passive combat regen) probably is as high as it shout be.

My thoughts are the Sigil should add both the current level of passive regen as well as some form of proc based Life Force generation requiring active combat actions.

Julius Seizure.4985:

I think that the passive is both under-powered but also, ironically, the passive regen is about as potent as it can become. Perhaps adding a %chance for Life Force proc, such as on critical, on attack, on hit, or some other such criteria would be ideal. Passive regen of Life Force is really powerful, and while I feel the overall strength of this Sigil needs a buff, this particular aspect (passive combat regen) probably is as high as it shout be.

My thoughts are the Sigil should add both the current level of passive regen as well as some form of proc based Life Force generation requiring active combat actions.

I think it should grant regeneration (62-125), and 1% life force every second.

I think it should generate 1% LF every 2 seconds regardless of whether we’re in combat or not. That wouldn’t make it too op, but would definitely make it worth bringing outside of needing that flimsy rez (which doesn’t seem to work half the time or is far too slow anyway)

“Flimsy rez” – best rez in the game…

Bhawb.7408:

“Flimsy rez” – best rez in the game…

yep the main (not only) reason you see necros in high level tpvp

It may be the best resurrection skill in the game but I want it to work on dead, not just downed, players; at least, ones that have not been finished.

Of course, I would also like it to work on enemy players, too, and force them to work for my team until they are dead, again. :p

Yes and we should also get old infinite range no los no target limit epidemic back, right…

Dredlord.8076:

Bhawb.7408:

“Flimsy rez” – best rez in the game…

yep the main (not only) reason you see necros in high level tpvp

I know everyone in pvp brings it, but I’ve had it not work at all numerous times, or its so slow that by the time I cast it they’re dead anyway. If it actually rezzed from dead then the 180 second recharge time and slow casting time would be justified. The fact it can rez 3 people is situational at best, rarely have I ever come across a situation where that was used especially considering the tiny casting area. Ever seen the targeting area for Battle Standard? The whole point is, the signet needs work. Either the passive needs better numbers, or the active needs polishing up

If you got the full cast off, the people were downed (not dead), and it still didn’t work, then sure, that is a bug that needs fixing. Otherwise you are comparing a utility skill with a full minute less CD to an elite.

I believe this signet’s passive during the BWE was 1% per second, and then it was changed. But I agree, the passive is very weak. I wouldn’t trade a passive buff for an active ability nerf, but the passive is weak.

Perhaps this is an ability that will be buffed when they talked about signets during the SOTG interview.

Erm warriors banner is a better res but ok.

Yeah it is, it is also an elite skill. I’d kind of hope its better.

Bhawb.7408:

“Flimsy rez” – best rez in the game…

….

My mistake for bad wording. As far as just a flat out skill for getting people off the ground Undeath is the best. It is a full minute less CD, and doesn’t waste your elite slot. It is also on a class that isn’t widely terrible. The Banner is a better skill overall, the boons are amazing and it has a better radius.

If you want a pure res, banner is not the best, that better?

Bhawb.7408:

My mistake for bad wording. As far as just a flat out skill for getting people off the ground Undeath is the best. It is a full minute less CD, and doesn’t waste your elite slot. It is also on a class that isn’t widely terrible. The Banner is a better skill overall, the boons are amazing and it has a better radius.

If you want a pure res, banner is not the best, that better?

when I said flimsy rez I didn’t intend for it to be this much debate, so it was poor wording on my part, because honestly I think all rez skills in this game are gimmicks at best, especially considering all classes could conceivably ressurect anyone in GW1 and most had similar cast times and those were hard-from-dead rezzes in-combat no less… (1 was instant recharge and low cast time at a health sacrifice, which honestly might be what SoU might need to be) but their recharge times were not nearly as ridiculous. Granted they didn’t have any passive effects, but other than the warrior banner in GW2 (which has no effect at all anyway unless you already cast it) what rez skill does other than SoU). I was in no way saying it was *trash or a bad skill…. I was just pointing out the flaws I personally have noticed, and yes it does in fact not rez people sometimes and this has been documented on the wiki, but it’s far too random to catalogue in the bugs section until we pin down exactly what causes this (LoS issue maybe? idk) and I can say with good faith that the passive effect is not at all noticeable if you don’t bring it, which reiterates my original points: either fix the passive, or fix the active. I don’t think both need it, but definitely one or the other.

This signet is just horrible. Very powerful active effect, terribad passive effect. It doenst feel like a signet at all, the rezz itself should be a regular spell.
The passive effect should be buffed a bit, maybe add a passive regeneration as mentioned before, and a completly different active effect.

So no one likes my 1% every 2 seconds whether in or out of combat? I thought it was a pretty good idea lol

Nay of the Ether.8913:

So no one likes my 1% every 2 seconds whether in or out of combat? I thought it was a pretty good idea lol

I think ANet is trying to stay away from allowing Necros to generate much LF outside of combat. I’m not sure if it’d really be too strong, but I think it would border on it.

It takes up an entire utility slot. The passive effect should be powerful, especially for Necromancer.

It should steal life on hit or something.

Signets aren’t supposed to have powerful passive effects, they just need passives that are just strong enough that you need to actually make a choice when to activate them. Strong passives = boring all signet gameplay.

I really love this signet because I love more Life Force, and its active effect has allowed for some great turn arounds in some sPvP matches. IIRC it’s about 3% LF for every 10 seconds of combat, and 20% LF for every minute. I enjoy that extra bit of LF, because just being able to pop into Death Shroud and use the teleport or fear, or proc Enfeebling Blood from being traited for it upon entering DS, has really come in handy and helped me get away or finish a kill, or just buy me a few more seconds waiting for my heal’s CD to end. So, this signet definitely has it uses; but, I would really enjoy a small buff to the passive. I think even a minor difference, say 1% every 2 seconds would yield a positive effect. 1% every second? I can’t say that I’d complain or mind at all

Bhawb.7408:

Signets aren’t supposed to have powerful passive effects, they just need passives that are just strong enough that you need to actually make a choice when to activate them. Strong passives = boring all signet gameplay.

Not what the guys said.

Your giving up an entire utility slot for a passive effect, if its not powerful WHY even bother? Why should I give up powerful corruption skills like Corrupt Boon or Epidemic for crappy slots that do nothing? Why give up that slot when you can get 25% Movement speed?

Why bother having the signets at all then?

You can still activate the signet.

Bhawb.7408:

You can still activate the signet.

What if I don’t want to do that and use it for its passive? Your forcing a play-style choice on me and I don’t like it.

Then don’t complain about it being weak when you are only using half of the skill.

Bhawb.7408:

Then don’t complain about it being weak when you are only using half of the skill.

The other half of the skill is a rez, its not something you use, its an emergency.

I’m giving up ALL this for an emergency. Currently, your giving up nothing for it.

They can’t make it a choice without completely overpowering the passive. A multiple person res is going to turn fights around, LF generation won’t be able to match that.

Bhawb.7408:

They can’t make it a choice without completely overpowering the passive. A multiple person res is going to turn fights around, LF generation won’t be able to match that.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard

Its passive should be powerful. Otherwise it won’t even begin to match abilities like it.

Passive: Steals health when you attack.
Healing: 62 (0.06)?
Damage: 62 (0.06)?

Very necromancerish.

Bhawb.7408:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

So no one likes my 1% every 2 seconds whether in or out of combat? I thought it was a pretty good idea lol

I think ANet is trying to stay away from allowing Necros to generate much LF outside of combat. I’m not sure if it’d really be too strong, but I think it would border on it.

A necro that could go into every combat with full life force has a huge advantage. I doubt they will ever do something like this.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard

Its passive should be powerful. Otherwise it won’t even begin to match abilities like it.

Passive: Steals health when you attack.
Healing: 62 (0.06)?
Damage: 62 (0.06)?

Very necromancerish.

That’s an elite skill.

I hope it does get buffed to 2 or 3% LF. Or LF on crit. I feel like it’s not worth taking and another utility would be much better. My opinion if you have to rez your teammates, then you’re probably already losing, but there are times you can turn the tide. I almost never get to rez more than one person with it in a tpvp environment. Also I’m usually targeted first and don’t get to use it much.

RockonHarder.7235:

Bhawb.7408:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

So no one likes my 1% every 2 seconds whether in or out of combat? I thought it was a pretty good idea lol

I think ANet is trying to stay away from allowing Necros to generate much LF outside of combat. I’m not sure if it’d really be too strong, but I think it would border on it.

A necro that could go into every combat with full life force has a huge advantage. I doubt they will ever do something like this.

a necro that stands around long enough to generate full life force at a rate of 1% every 2 seconds is a liability to the team…not at any advantage. In that amount of time you could have just as easily stood around some fights and gotten it. The point of my objective is to at last generate a small portion as you go from one cap point to the next. A small portion…not an entire LF bar. Standing around waiting on it to fill isn’t going to benefit anyone.

Over the course of a 10 minute tournament, that is 300% LF, which is a fairly significant amount. OP? I’m not sure.

Bhawb.7408:

Over the course of a 10 minute tournament, that is 300% LF, which is a fairly significant amount. OP? I’m not sure.

raise the ticking timer then, but in-combat it wouldn’t be any different than it is now, and like I said a necro standing picking his nose waiting on LF to build isn’t helping anyone accomplish anything

He doesn’t need to sit around though, that is guaranteed LF (except if you are dead I guess). I’m not sure what experience you have, but I have a significant amount of time in a tournament where I am not in combat. Again, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a good fix, just saying that it would be a significant increase.

Bhawb.7408:

Over the course of a 10 minute tournament, that is 300% LF, which is a fairly significant amount. OP? I’m not sure.

Over the period of 10 minutes I can probably sit around as a guardian and heal for more then that in real health… ?

Passives supposing to be weak is a relative term, there is such a thing as too weak, which is exactly what they just rated all stat signets as, seeing as they are about get doubled. I don’t think Signet of Undeath’s passive will measure up to the new +180 power, precision, etc, anymore, if it ever did even to 90.

Atm this is only Signet that is effective in team tpvp (must have), buffing this signet will be OP.

The active is incredibly useful in Tpvp, not so much other parts of the game. Even WvW perfect situations to turn around a fight come up much less. Getting 2-3 people up in a 30v30 you are losing won’t do that much. Thankfully, they have the PvE/PVP/WvW split capability now, maybe this is a case for it.

emon.1863:

Atm this is only Signet that is effective in team tpvp (must have), buffing this signet will be OP.

Powering the passive will not make it OP.

Daecollo.9578:

emon.1863:

Atm this is only Signet that is effective in team tpvp (must have), buffing this signet will be OP.

Powering the passive will not make it OP.

Ofcource it will !
You cannot seperate passive and active signet effect, because it is one skill! It is the same to seperate DS as Extra HP and skills that you can use, then say that DS is to short and we need a buff.

emon.1863:

Daecollo.9578:

emon.1863:

Atm this is only Signet that is effective in team tpvp (must have), buffing this signet will be OP.

Powering the passive will not make it OP.

Ofcource it will !
You cannot seperate passive and active signet effect, because it is one skill! It is the same to seperate DS as Extra HP and skills that you can use, then say that DS is to short and we need a buff.

If its too powerful in SPVP it can be nerfed. However tbh here is what i’m seeing and hearing from you.

“OMG! NECROMANCERS WILL GET SOME USEFUL AND FUN UTILITY SLOTS LIKE ALL THE OTHER CLASSES!”

We can’t have that! :<

emon.1863:

Daecollo.9578:

emon.1863:

Atm this is only Signet that is effective in team tpvp (must have), buffing this signet will be OP.

Powering the passive will not make it OP.

Ofcource it will !
You cannot seperate passive and active signet effect, because it is one skill! It is the same to seperate DS as Extra HP and skills that you can use, then say that DS is to short and we need a buff.

Actually till we get a signet passives work despite it being on cooldown trait, you can think of the passive as its own 15 point minior trait, in that sense they are weak, but not behind design but execution (undeath doesnt work outside of combat when you would actually like the lf generation, plague is weird in transfer style being on 3 second check and only 1 condition, spite passive can be used but as a whole is terrible so it doesnt count and locust is the generic, but good 25% ms boost with medicore at best active thats not worth using since the movement speed is pretty much always better).

I think this is splitting hairs a bit. A minor buff to the passive on Undeath would probably be ok, but better LF generation on the Scepter would be a better fix for builds that struggle with LF generation currently. I don’t think giving too much LF from a passive is a good idea. It would be better to promote more active play generating more LF.

If you aren’t getting enough LF in a build that doesn’t use scepter the majority of the time, then you are probably doing something wrong, because everything else can build up LF with reasonable speed.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

I think this is splitting hairs a bit. A minor buff to the passive on Undeath would probably be ok, but better LF generation on the Scepter would be a better fix for builds that struggle with LF generation currently. I don’t think giving too much LF from a passive is a good idea. It would be better to promote more active play generating more LF.

If you aren’t getting enough LF in a build that doesn’t use scepter the majority of the time, then you are probably doing something wrong, because everything else can build up LF with reasonable speed.

+1. This game is trying to have active combat, you can’t get much further away from active with a passive effect that is going all the time.

Bhawb.7408:

They can’t make it a choice without completely overpowering the passive. A multiple person res is going to turn fights around, LF generation won’t be able to match that.

They need to nerf the active, is what they need to do.
instant rez on 3 people is absurd, especially if you’re rezzing a bunker guardian or ele that just took full elites/cd’s to bring down.

Buff the passive to 2% life force per ability use. Reduce the active to only rez one person.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

I think this is splitting hairs a bit. A minor buff to the passive on Undeath would probably be ok, but better LF generation on the Scepter would be a better fix for builds that struggle with LF generation currently. I don’t think giving too much LF from a passive is a good idea. It would be better to promote more active play generating more LF.

If you aren’t getting enough LF in a build that doesn’t use scepter the majority of the time, then you are probably doing something wrong, because everything else can build up LF with reasonable speed.

Axe has terrible LF generation because most people know to dodge the channel, and staff is crap generation without soul marks trait since the missiles have a hard time hitting players from being so slow.

In fact, anything that isn’t dagger 1 spam or staff mark spam with soul marks has horrible LF generation.

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf the active, is what they need to do.
instant rez on 3 people is absurd, especially if you’re rezzing a bunker guardian or ele that just took full elites/cd’s to bring down.

Buff the passive to 2% life force per ability use. Reduce the active to only rez one person.

That’s ridiculous for three reasons

1) The active is 144 minutes if you take the CD reduction.

2) Until we get better mobility we need something this good.

3) You need to brush up on your skill traits. It’s has a cast time and a ridiculously easy to tell casting animation that makes it easily interruptable.

[

Axe has terrible LF generation because most people know to dodge the channel, and staff is crap generation without soul marks trait since the missiles have a hard time hitting players from being so slow.

In fact, anything that isn’t dagger 1 spam or staff mark spam with soul marks has horrible LF generation.

This sounds a lot like a gameplay issue. If you are 1v1ing a lot as a Necro than you aren’t playing your necro and tournaments right. Besides let them dodge my axe 2 please because dodging my focus 5 is way more annoying. If they dodge my axe 2 the other classes can pepper them with abandon.

To top it all off, Staff 1 is amazing for LF generation in WvWvW and tournament play. Exactly where are you playing that people can openly avoid your staff 1. In tournament play you simply use it while strafing outside the group. Axe 2 is used in the same manner, strafe, wait until he comes out of dodge and boom thank you!.

Granted I still would take dagger over axe in tournament play, but that’s personal preference.

Also spectral grasp and truth be told if you are running Axe you should be running life force on crit.

Bas.7406:

Zenith.7301:

They need to nerf the active, is what they need to do.
instant rez on 3 people is absurd, especially if you’re rezzing a bunker guardian or ele that just took full elites/cd’s to bring down.

Buff the passive to 2% life force per ability use. Reduce the active to only rez one person.

That’s ridiculous for three reasons

1) The active is 144 minutes if you take the CD reduction.

2) Until we get better mobility we need something this good.

3) You need to brush up on your skill traits. It’s has a cast time and a ridiculously easy to tell casting animation that makes it easily interruptable.

[

Axe has terrible LF generation because most people know to dodge the channel, and staff is crap generation without soul marks trait since the missiles have a hard time hitting players from being so slow.

In fact, anything that isn’t dagger 1 spam or staff mark spam with soul marks has horrible LF generation.

This sounds a lot like a gameplay issue. If you are 1v1ing a lot as a Necro than you aren’t playing your necro and tournaments right. Besides let them dodge my axe 2 please because dodging my focus 5 is way more annoying. If they dodge my axe 2 the other classes can pepper them with abandon.

To top it all off, Staff 1 is amazing for LF generation in WvWvW and tournament play. Exactly where are you playing that people can openly avoid your staff 1. In tournament play you simply use it while strafing outside the group. Axe 2 is used in the same manner, strafe, wait until he comes out of dodge and boom thank you!.

Granted I still would take dagger over axe in tournament play, but that’s personal preference.

Also spectral grasp and truth be told if you are running Axe you should be running life force on crit.

The signet active is a crutch. It’s simply not good design. Many things have a cast time, like heals or elites. This skill is not unique in being interruptible, but if DS to get stability before using it, I cannot be interrupted quick enough.

This skill is the same reason I hate portal/veil on mesmer in wvw. It becomes a gimmick of the class and pigeonholes it to a particular function only. An extremely strong function.

And I certainly can’t hit a moving thief from the roof on temple of silent storm, or said thief if our positions are switched. On my mesmer or my ranger or my thief or my engineer my projectiles are much quicker and at long distances they are not sidestepped.

And in the offchance that staff auto does connect, it hits like wet tissue for the speed it has.

If I need Life force immediately, I cannot rely on axe 2 to generate it, or the scepter, or staff auto. I will always prefer to take dagger opposed to axe not only because it hits much harder and has supremely better sustained, but the LF generation on dagger auto and staff with trait on marks is just so much better than the rest and I need that LF because despite all my positioning teams will always be gunning for me as priority target.

RockonHarder.7235:

Bhawb.7408:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

So no one likes my 1% every 2 seconds whether in or out of combat? I thought it was a pretty good idea lol

I think ANet is trying to stay away from allowing Necros to generate much LF outside of combat. I’m not sure if it’d really be too strong, but I think it would border on it.

A necro that could go into every combat with full life force has a huge advantage. I doubt they will ever do something like this.

Technically you can already do that. It’s just ridiculously impractical.
Take the trait Spectral Attunement and use Spectral Walk out of combat.
You gain a small amount of Life force (5%? I forgot) out of nowhere.

Of course if you are gonna use that 20 times to get 100% Life Force then you are useless for 20 minutes.
You can make it faster by also casting Spectral Wall and Spectral Armor.

Point is I don’t think that it’d be a bad thing for the Signet to generate Life Force out of combat so long as it happens at a slow rate.