Guild Wars 2

In its current form it just removes 1 condition on entering DS and what I would like to see is feedback on it removing 1 condition on entering DS and 1 condition every 5s after that. Would this be overpowered?

nope, not at all.

Keep in mind it is currently an adept tier trait.

Yes it would be, especially with the buffed LF generation that will allow a lot more DS time.

Bhawb.7408:

Yes it would be, especially with the buffed LF generation that will allow a lot more DS time.

coming from the guy that calls nearly every suggestion on here OP

most builds will burst you out of DS before 3 conditions are gone and some before 2 are gone.

If you have built to be able to stay in DS long enough to make use of this then you have made huge sacrifices elsewhere and losing a condition every 5 seconds is no where near OP.

I know a power-mancer (a really good one) who doesn’t use a staff, but he still went 10 into Death Magic for this trait.
It helps to get out of immobilized or to get rid of blind, chill… all those annoying non-dot condis. In that way he uses it similar to a stun breaker.
Would it be op if it removed more than one condition? I’m not sure… but I’d seriously consider shifting some points around to get this trait.

@Bhawb: More LF or DS time doesn’t mean the trait gets more effective.

In a similar question, what if Death Shiver were changed to work both in and outside of death shroud (whenever in combat)? Would anyone even be tempted to take the trait then?

Would be nice to improve shrouded removal, right now it’s not really that huge unless you take the 5 second CD on DS. It would be nice to make it remove 2 conditions. Could also make it a 2+ conditions removal but then we will need a 10 second internal CD.

In It To Win It.2315:

In its current form it just removes 1 condition on entering DS and what I would like to see is feedback on it removing 1 condition on entering DS and 1 condition every 5s after that. Would this be overpowered?

I doubt it would be OP, although we might quibble about whether the timer should be 5s, or 8s, etc. I rarely spends more than about 7 sec or so in DS at a time, so I’d rarely get a chance for a second removal tick if it were 8s, for example.

Also, considering that there are no cond removal skills while in DS, this would be helpful. Even if taken alongside the Spiteful Removal trait, it doesn’t seem OP.

I would rather it remove 1 Condition entering DS and 1 Condition leaving DS, that way you can control when you remove your conditions, leaving less to chance and more to player skill. Also this would help people like myself who fast swap in and out of DS to gain fury/retal with it’s 5 sec CD. \o/

Tobbygnome.6793:

I would rather it remove 1 Condition entering DS and 1 Condition leaving DS, that way you can control when you remove your conditions, leaving less to chance and more to player skill. Also this would help people like myself who fast swap in and out of DS to gain fury/retal with it’s 5 sec CD. \o/

This is actually a better idea than my change but I was trying to find a way to encourage people to stay in DS instead of it just being a cooldown spam bar.

In It To Win It.2315:

Tobbygnome.6793:

I would rather it remove 1 Condition entering DS and 1 Condition leaving DS, that way you can control when you remove your conditions, leaving less to chance and more to player skill. Also this would help people like myself who fast swap in and out of DS to gain fury/retal with it’s 5 sec CD. \o/

This is actually a better idea than my change but I was trying to find a way to encourage people to stay in DS instead of it just being a cooldown spam bar.

There are definitely reasons to stay in DS, like using 4 and soon 5, stacking might with 1, or just doing nice AA damage with 1 in a power build, except this is done mostly in PvE or WvW and not sPvP.

In sPvP it’s just best practice for skilled necros to only use DS to soak damage and then leave it, or to fear, it’s not that common to stay in it until it’s depleted, purely for the fact that it’s just better to save it for the occasions mentioned above.

Even with the potentially large LF regen buff we may get on the 25th, i still don’t see PvP necros change the way they use DS other than to incorporate the use of our new 5 skill, the use of DS is a major play style decision that won’t be swayed by such a talent change.

People aren’t going to drain 5 seconds of their LF pool to remove a random condition that could have already finished doing it’s harm, it’s too situational.

At least with (my idea) a removal of a condition both in and out of DS, they can either spam DS to remove 2 conditions instantly, or remove one on entry and if they get screwed over again by a 2nd root or blind, they can then leave it and be set free, people love this kind of control with their skills.

This will also provide a good combo for when we need to use DS to wait out our CD for a heal, and if our DS runs out, that condition removal could save our lives from the dot that would’ve killed us while we were casting the heal. I kno a few times where dots have killed me while casting heal. :P

If this change happened to the talent, i would definitely pick it up for pvp and possibly WvW.

Tobbygnome.6793:

I would rather it remove 1 Condition entering DS and 1 Condition leaving DS, that way you can control when you remove your conditions […]

I really like this idea.
+1

I like it how it is. If people feel it needs a buff i think the best improvement would to be to make it remove 2 or 3 conditions instead of 1.

Does it have an internal cooldown?

I wouldn’t mind if it removed upon entering and exiting DS. You’d still be bound by DS cd, and even traited that’s only every 5 seconds, but not something you could do indefinitely, especially in focused fire. Eles can do that all day long and not break a sweat. If that seemed too OP, might even consider giving the trait itself a 10 second cd so that even traited for DS it would only activate those two times every 10 seconds (cd begins at the end of second activation). I’ve always thought most of the DS specific traits that trigger upon entering should also trigger when exiting and use a similar cd system from what I mentioned. Some of them though would make it too OP so further tweaking would have to be done of course.

It won’t make this ability OP, on the contrary, I don’t think such a change is even needed cause the trait already serves its purpose as it is and 5 seconds is quite a long time to stay in death shroud during a fight (unless you’re buying time for your heal to recharge).
I personally think this trait is already in a good position, and probably the only reason it’s not used very often is because it has to compete for the staff or minion traits.

This trait is pretty much our only reliable defense against Mesmer’s illusionary leap+swap+blurred frenzy chain.

I think condi cleanse on entering as well as leaving DS would be too strong (especially if near to death becomes a master trait) and in PvP you rarely stay in DS for five seconds. But hey, that thief condi cleanse trait works every 3 seconds, the first proc as soon as they enter stealth… so there is that precedent.

I think it’s just that the Death Magic tree isn’t that appealing to most specs, it has a lot of minion traits which people will hardly ever go for since minions aren’t used that often.

Also the stats are Toughness which is second to Vitality for a Necros defense, and Boon Duration which means nothing to us.

So really the only reason people go 10 into it is for Greater Marks and that’s it, to go 20 into it might kitten peoples specs too much just for 1 condition removal every DS.

I mean compare even the No.15 Minor Traits in each tree with Death Magics -
20 toughness per minion is useless without minions compared to:

Curses – ‘Furious Demise’ which provides 5 sec fury into DS which is huge.
Blood magic – ‘Vampiric’ siphon health on hit which helps shape vampire specs.
Soul Reaping – ‘Last Gasp’ is a free Spectral Armor at 50% hp every 60 secs.

For these reasons above, Death Magic will always be the least attractive tree and unfortunately although ‘Shrouded Removal’ itself is quite a nice trait to have and serves it purpose well, it’s more the fault of Death Magics synergy than the trait itself as to why it isn’t brought into many specs.

- Tobby

How about making Shrouded Removal 5pt or 15pt minor? would it be too much?

Enferian.2705:

How about making Shrouded Removal 5pt or 15pt minor? would it be too much?

If it was 5 points I think it would be too good.