Guild Wars 2

I want to level up a Necro and all I hear on the Necro Forums is how bad, and crappy this class is.. Come on let us be honest shall we?

Is the class really that bad? Do we have to work 10x harder then another class to get the same end results in PvP and PvE?

I find Guardians and Warriors boring, and yes I know they the most powerful classes in the game right now.

So really can someone tell me honestly how bad this class is or is not?

I leveled a Necro to 80, the journey to 80 was pretty disheartening- I leveled a Thief to 80 previously, and had a MUCH easier time with the Thief.

When I hit 80, that’s when I started having lots of fun with my Necromancer. I was the only Necromancer main in my guild. Then after a while, I began to feel disheartened, by the amount of bugs, Anet’s apparent unwillingness to do much about it, and just feeling subpar compared to other classes.

It’s still fun to play, but in my personal opinion, it MIGHT disappoint you in the LONG run.

This is just my personal experience with it though.

As someone who has a level 80 warrior, thief, and at one point a level 80 necromancer (deleted it), yes, this class is very bad. There is a reason you only see warriors, thieves, mesmers, and guardians in PVP.

I’m not saying its so bad you can’t level to 80 and kill stuff, but by comparison, the damage the necromancer puts out when traited and geared for pure DPS is approximately less than half of any other class thats geared and traited for DPS. Any time I am in a dungeon with a necromancer it takes forever to complete. They don’t really have the killing power of the other classes.

The necromancer trait tree itself is in absolute shambles and make no sense as well. No one can figure out if the traits are supposed to be the way they are or if the traits are actually bugged or not. Anet has been extremely silent on these issues as well so we’re constantly being left in the dark as to how our traits are supposed to function. To compound that problem, necromancers boast the largest bug list of any other class currently.

Minions are completely useless, and there is a thread here on the front page of a dev claiming minions function contrary to what is actually happening in game. While I seriously don’t want to sound like I’m bashing on anyone in particular, its painfully obvious after that response that no one on the dev team is actually playing this class. All I can say is that Anet seem to be out of touch with whats happening in their game in regards to this class.

Jon Peters has come to this forum saying he was afraid of how OP necromancers can get because of the death shroud mechanic if necromancers got buffed. The death shroud mechanic would be fine if the abilities in death shroud actually mattered or even had the ability to change fights. On paper, death shroud probably sounds strong. In function, death shroud sucks. I honestly wish they would scrap that mechanic so they can bring necromancers up to par with the other classes balance wise. As it stands, death shroud is merely a gimmick and an “Oh kitten!” button, and its not even very good at that. All it takes is 5 minutes of play time to realize that death shroud doesn’t save you from anything. It merely prolongs the inevitable. On both my thief and warrior I have destroyed death shroud in 2-3 hits on a level 80 player (not up leveled). I can honestly say without embellishment that I have NEVER been downed, let alone killed, by a necromancer in WvW or sPvP. I’m an average player at best. Necromancers are a joke and a free kill every time I come across them. In sPvP, any time I have seen a team with 2 or more necromancers, that team usually ends up losing unless they have a godlike player to carry them. I cannot say the same about any other class ATM.

Anet has a pretty terrible track record when it comes to fixing balance issues on this scale. All you have to do is look at Dervish, Paragon and Elementalist (after hard mode was introduced, before they were fine) from GW1 to realize it takes them YEARS to fix these balance problems.

TLDR: I would seriously not waste your time with this class.

Necro was my first character to 80…i have 3 others and i can say my necro is my fav. Don’t let all the complaints pull you away from it. Don’t get me wrong there are still plenty of things needing to be fixed i played both a condition build and have been playing with power for about a month now(Rather enjoy killing invisible thieves). Working 10x harder is an extreme exaggeration of it and aside from warriors i can keep up with most classes in terms of damage. The only real build that is hurting right now is the MM due to really bad a.i. Some classes do require more work regardless they are jus more advanced classes i.e comparing a warrior to a elementalist. They fixed a few of our issues on friday and dispite what people may think they will have everything working eventually. What people fail to realize is that necros actually can keep up with other classes already…if they just outright went and had everything working it actually might make us a lil OP…give them time to figure out balancing its not as simple as flipping a switch. As for terms of pvp i only play wvw and i dont loose very often either. I recommend going to youtube and typing in shroudstomp in the search and watching some of his vids he more than holds his own

It’s really kind of amazing how different people can have completely different experiences playing the same class. :P

It all comes down to preference really. I have a 80 thief, guardian, necro, mesmer now. I can say that guardian and thief for me was many times easier to lvl then my necro, the mesmer was very easy to i got to the orr zones. Undead just ignore the clones and phantasms so much harder for me at that point.

I enjoy my necro but it is overall a slower compared to my other 80s. We do have alot of issues and things that need to be fixed with it but still a good class, just slower paced.

I enjoy the heck out of my necro. I’ve never been a big fan of minions but I enjoy all our other class mechanics quite a bit.

I’ve played 6/8 classes in PvP and think Necros definitely have their place in solo PvE, group PvE and PvP, yeah there are bugs but every class I’ve played is buggy. If you like the class, play it. I think they bring a lot to the table.

PS death shroud is really awesome I really have no idea what Kravick is talking about. It’s been a life saver a million times, a long chill and 3 stacks of bleeds on your 2, a fear, and Life Transfer is just strong as hell, and Life Blast (1) is some of the classes highest DPS if your life force is full.

Not to mention I find it an enjoyable resource to manage.

Also Kravick it sounds like you roll with some bad necros or necros who are more built around utility or defensiveness.

Are you a casual gamer that does not care about your classes power level vs other classes? If you don’t care and just like the class roll one.

If you like having a balanced strong class for PvP WvW and PvE roll something else.

All you people saying necros are great strong etc… need to stop it and play other classes seriously like a mesmer. You would get better results with half the effort.

People like Kravick and Gamefreak are who you listen too, you dont listen to players that only played one class. (am talking more then an hour trying other classes in Spvp and Tpvp)

Trivialize my opinion will ya?

Sure, Necros are not the best at any one role. But at least 4-5 classes will always be that. Kravick and other people on these forums are acting like they’re broken and utterly useless at anything, but they certainly bring things to the table, top DPS isn’t one of them, no matter the spec. But considering all the conditions, durability and trickiness they bring to the table, they shouldn’t be a top DPS class.

They’re buggy and a slew of bugs were fixed this patch, just like other classes and this entire game. But please, don’t try to discredit my opinion because my opinions and observations don’t align with yours. You don’t know me.

For the record, this is what the OP asked:
“Is the class really that bad? Do we have to work 10x harder then another class to get the same end results in PvP and PvE?”

The answer is absolutely not.

Kravick and other people on these forums are acting like they’re broken and utterly useless at anything, but they certainly bring things to the table, top DPS isn’t one of them, no matter the spec.

If even you can admit to this fault then its not even an argument that necromancers are broken. Anets manifesto specifically stated that all classes are able to do all things. DPS, support, and control. It just varies on how they want to spec at that given time. Currently, necros cannot DPS. Period. Necromancers “special” class mechanic, fear, is the worst in the game. Warriors and thieves actually fear better and longer. Anything a necromancer can do, another class can do better, so why bother being a necromancer? What so special about this class that warrants its existence?

Further proof of this is the fact that people will gravitate towards classes that function well in PVP. Necromancers are the least played class right now. I shouldn’t need to explain why.

Anet stated that the design philosophy is that of an attrition class which it is hard to disengage from.

Ask yourself if that is true in a game where direct damage and burst rule surpreme.

Lol if that was true then there wouldn’t be builds with more survival beating glass cannons…everyone likes to act like this game is either black or white. It comes down to sheer skill and playstyle. Granted trying to climb the stairwell that is necro is like going up in crutches but anyone who manages to reach the top wont be disappointed. If it was all about burst and direct damage then i guess Anet might as well remove all forms of utility and cc out. A properly setup necro can outright cancel 4-5 backstabs with proper class knowledge(if you have to ask how then you are probably one of the ppl who gave up)

Lloyd.8710:

Lol if that was true then there wouldn’t be builds with more survival beating glass cannons…everyone likes to act like this game is either black or white. It comes down to sheer skill and playstyle. Granted trying to climb the stairwell that is necro is like going up in crutches but anyone who manages to reach the top wont be disappointed. If it was all about burst and direct damage then i guess Anet might as well remove all forms of utility and cc out. A properly setup necro can outright cancel 4-5 backstabs with proper class knowledge(if you have to ask how then you are probably one of the ppl who gave up)

Yeah, it doesn’t take ages to stack up those bleeds and they do not get often wiped off repeatedly especially in a team environment.

Utility and cc? Oh yes, the forums are full of complaints from other classes how necros ruin their day because of those insane abilties they field.

Oh, and of course a “you are bad” comment. Seriously, grow up.

I think Chill, Blind and Vulnerability are underrated.

Fear and Grasp too.

For me, its not about the necro being under or over powered. Its the simple fact that its so very poorly built that bothers me.

Like many people I started the necro wanting to be like the Gw1 (and every necro in every game ever) to be a Minion Master. I quickly found out that the minions are trash. It wasnt until I learned and used other skills, like wells, that I really started to tell how crappy the minions where.
Eventually I realized being able to be a MM necro just wasnt going to be an option. (if I still wanted to have fun playing the game)
So I dropped the necro and tryed the next class inline that could maybe be a good minion master. The Engi and his turrets. he too was a disappointment but Iv managed to make it work for me and still have fun.

Like some others I blame the very poor class mechanic; Death Shroud for holding back the necro. Not only is there a huge issue with trying to balance this pos mechanic but its such a horrible idea I cant believe they implemented it. Its like they held a contest for the worst possible class mechanic and this was the winner.

Asmodean.5820:

Oh, and of course a “you are bad” comment. Seriously, grow up.

I’d appreciate reading what you are replying to. I never said people were bad…i said GAVE UP…they are very different. Yes granted bleed stacks do get wiped…there is the power build available. Each build has its strength and weaknesses. Some classes can purge conditions often while others have a harder time. I can only imagine why u might think the lack of importance of cc and utilities if you cant even read my post correctly.

Nautika.5376:

I want to level up a Necro and all I hear on the Necro Forums is how bad, and crappy this class is.. Come on let us be honest shall we?

Is the class really that bad? Do we have to work 10x harder then another class to get the same end results in PvP and PvE?

I find Guardians and Warriors boring, and yes I know they the most powerful classes in the game right now.

So really can someone tell me honestly how bad this class is or is not?

I’ve tried leveling a Warrior and Guardian (3 times now!) and I too keep getting bored with them.

Speaking for PVE only, necros do quite well, despite the annoyance of some bugged traits and skills. Although we are clothies, we are pretty tough, and I find condition damage requires more thought and strategy than direct damage classes.

We do especially well in AoE situations, good mob tagging, and its hard to get less than Gold in DEs.

In the end, though, it comes down to whether you enjoy the playstyle and mechanics.

“Trivialize my opinion will ya?”

Yes I dont think you have played other classes and you were insulting towards a poster that has multiple level 80s. I think you are low rank and you opinion is not informed.

Necros as they stand are not a top competative class, there is even a thread in the spvp forum with hard data backing it up.

For PvE play what you like any class works.

I just wanted to give you an opinion on Necromancers without of all the drama of the forums.

Before you judge necromancer based on forum responses remember this. Most people on the forums kitten, a lot.

Now to the subject at hand:

Necromancers are extremely powerful, but only if you understand the flow of the battle you are in. In PVE if you know how to utilize staff, epidemic, and blood is power you can kite (and kill) 12 – 15 mobs at Orr. This makes necromancers excellent farmers. Additionally your survival is excellent due to being able to deathshroud as big bursts of damage come in.

Additionally being able to weapon swap as your CDs die is paramount to your success.

In dungeons your goal is to control conditions and boons. You do damage yes, but it isn’t as much as everyone else. Your goal is to MITIGATE damage, not absorb it. You want to keep enemies blinded/slowed/weakened, while making the enemy more vulnerable to your allies attacks.

There is also a lot of advanced tricks you can do utilizing spectral walk and flesh wurm, if you see the opportunities to use them. (they are both teleporting spells).

In PVP, necromancers are a powerhouse if you build properly. In no build ever, should a necromancer not have toughness. It makes you too glassy in this thiefy world we live in. However, if you are very good as a necromancer with the proper setup and cooldowns. You can (RELIABLY) fight 1 vs 2, against say a thief/gs guardian. The reason that necromancers are not popular in SPVP is because guardians have a kittenload of condition removal without sacrificing toughness. This makes it rough for the necromancer, as most of our damage comes from conditions. In PVP your goal is to spread as many conditions as possible, again to MITIGATE damage to your allies while providing pressure damage to your foes.

You are a very strong duelist as long as you know how to move. Rarely will you be beaten 1 v 1, more than often the fights last long and eventually an ally comes to assist them. However, for the most part you should be able to kill most enemies without any real problem. As long as you have the time to kill them. Knowing when to flicker DS to utilize on DS talents is important.

Master death shroud, only then will you be fine…

Oozo.7856:

It’s really kind of amazing how different people can have completely different experiences playing the same class. :P

Because its plays differently on PVE, WvW or sPVP.

It can do quite well in PVE, at least if going dagger or scepter with staff backup.

In WvW, it seems to be hit or miss depending on the player and profession mix they bump into.

SPVP, forget it. at best you can go bunker as the wells fit the points, or perhaps try countering bunker guardians. But the major problem in sPVP is that LF takes a while to charge, and during that time you do not really have any good way to deal with bursts.

Also, this game is heavily rigged towards player skill, especially in sPVP where the gear is equalized. By this i mean that your best defense is to constantly move about to avoid being hit at all (melee attacks have limited range, most ranged attacks have actual projectiles that can be avoided). Meaning that it plays more like a third person shooter than a RPG.

This is then compounded by the Anet insistence that you should play the world, not the interface. By this they mean that you need to look for animation cues as to when high damage attacks are coming up, rather than watch for some indicator in and around the target UI.

RhysSebastian.7651:

Necromancers are extremely powerful, but only if you understand the flow of the battle you are in. In PVE if you know how to utilize staff, epidemic, and blood is power you can kite (and kill) 12 – 15 mobs at Orr.

Meh, with a good kite a level 1 can kill a level 80. It will just take forever to do so.

My necro’s 80 and I’ve had no troubles! It’s been a fun and easy ride. Moreso than any of my other characters so far, except maybe my warrior.

digiowl.9620:

RhysSebastian.7651:

Necromancers are extremely powerful, but only if you understand the flow of the battle you are in. In PVE if you know how to utilize staff, epidemic, and blood is power you can kite (and kill) 12 – 15 mobs at Orr.

Meh, with a good kite a level 1 can kill a level 80. It will just take forever to do so.

Truth, but I dont think a level 1 can kill all those mobs at essentially the same time generally. Most of the groups of enemies I fight die at essentially the same time in a reasonable time frame, which makes me a happy necro

I dunno about PvP, but in Dungeons Necromancers are great when played well.

Necros kill things somewhat slow but they make the jobs of everyone else much easier.
Immobilize, Cripple and Chill are all very easy for Necromancers to access and use liberally.

Mesmers and Elementalists have much easier time dealing damage when their opponents move at a snail’s pace.

Since Necromancers don’t rely on blocks and stealth they are also often in a great position to res downed front-line fighters.
Yeah, usually a good Mesmer can outlast a Necromancer, but it’s not not so if they don’t get to use their blocks and blurs and have to stand still while on fire.

Death Shroud is extremely useful in PvE. Tricky to master however.
Life Blast deals nice damage above 50% Life Force, Dark Path is… decent?
Doom works great as an interrupt and Life Transfer is very nice AoE.

I will however say that Minions are horrible because their AI sucks.
Necromancers also have many traits that just don’t work…

Also Death Magic’s first Minor trait can be so annoying that I sometimes skip using anything from that trait tree just to avoid taking it.

Also our damage tends to be rather… meh.
Probably because we are meant to use Minions in damage builds?
…ah well.

Asmodean.5820:

Anet stated that the design philosophy is that of an attrition class which it is hard to disengage from.

Ask yourself if that is true in a game where direct damage and burst rule surpreme.

In two lines : this.

Necromancer was doomed from the start with a sucky class mechanic that makes us an attrition calss. They can’t and they will never give us burst and ability to melt faces because then we would be a glass cannon who can dish up damage and still live with higher hp and DS and that would be imbalanced.

Basically unless they nerf DS and the amount of LF is has, we will never have burst.

Thing is that they have already made such a DS nerf.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

I think Chill, Blind and Vulnerability are underrated.

Fear and Grasp too.

Blind is very overrated IMO. It only causes them to miss 1 attack per application and they don’t even have to hit anything. Can just hit a skill and it clears. Which means there’s 0 benefit from condition stats. Well of Darkness is only marginally useful since it reapplies the Blind every pulse. It doesn’t fair very well against Haste though.

I’d like to be able to trait for more utility with my Fears. An option to add a Daze, or Confusion, or Chill to it. I mean we just scared the kitten out of them, right? Seems only right that they’d be a little Dazed and Confused with a Chill running down their spine.

As for whether Necros are worthwhile or not – In skilled hands that try to play the class for what it is instead of wishing for something it isn’t, it can be an imposing class on the battlefield. I’ve played most of the classes, including Thief, Mesmer, Ele, and Engi, and Necro is by far my favorite. DS makes running a glassy spec very forgiving. What other class can just decide to instantly bubble up every time someone decides to try and unload on them? The class is formidable and seems to be well represented in the tournament scene at the moment.

Most whom are unsatisfied with this profession – from what I’ve seen of this depressingly pessimistic section – have been focusing on power builds with a single-minded intensity I would otherwise expect from warriors.
Also, due to the nature of these things, you’re only seeing one side of the story by looking here – people are much less likely to come into the forums to give the thumbs up than they are to complain.
I’ll quickly state I did in fact dabble in a power build with dual daggers whilst leveling and for a week or two at level 80 and it was indeed my first character.

There are two main – and very different scenarios – to take into consideration; PvE and WvW. (Don’t give a monkey’s buttocks for PvP).
The issue I faced with a power build in PvE was an inability to negate or otherwise contend with the damage I took. I had put 30 points in the vitality tree, had all the siphons and a full set of vampiric runes, it still wasn’t sufficient.
It was far worse in WvW; never-mind attempting to take the damage, I could not even get close enough to begin dealing any out without going down – even if I tried axes, which is a good alternative to a dagger for outright damage, 600 range is nothing in WvW.

I’ve observed in both instances, an inability to cope with damage whilst also dishing it out.
However, I eventually made the transition to a condition damage build – which despite how much I initially enjoyed a power build, is far superior.
Combat goes a lot smoother in both PvE and WvW, using a sceptre + dagger/horn (I prefer horn for WvW) and a staff I can blitz most mobs down with ease whilst staying at range, which is the most important aspect.
Interestingly in WvW, because of the natural hit and run tactics employed, by which I mean when two forces meet, 75% of the time is spent dancing about waiting for an opportunity to strike or healing from the previous surge as the moment you break the 1200 range barrier, you’re vulnerable regardless of profession, I would say a condition build has the advantage; innumerable times have I engaged only for a few seconds to apply conditions, hit Epidemic and retreat then watch the conditions tear the opposing players apart from a safe distance – this is the advantage of condition damage.
I don’t even feel the need to use DS whatsoever, except as a separate life bar when things are dire and I need a moment to recover.

I will say however that I’m unsatisfied with the elite skills; none of them compliment this style of build, insisting upon forms that remove your normal skills and completely spoil the style of play. Yes they’re pretty cool, but not very effective, nor helpful.
I can see potential for a fairly effective support setup, perhaps for dungeon runs using shaman gear and such but I’ve no interest in this and haven’t spared it much thought.

Oh, most importantly; did I mention I actually enjoy playing necromancer?

I’ve played 4 classes post release and 1 other in the beta. Warrior, Eng, Mesmer, Elementalist, Necro. Necro has been my main and is my only 80 so far, but the others I do have elites unlocked for (30+). Done a lot of WvW, but I’ve only played a handful of sPvp maps so far so can’t say much for that.

The Good:
– PVE: Mob tagging with wells/marks. Good survivability, I died the least on this class while levelling thanks to minions and cripple/freeze + range. Some decent control options in dungeons with blinds ( I love plague form in any non-dredge one).
- WvW: People are terrified of red circles even if they don’t do much to them. Targeted well builds + staff are great for breaking up small zergs in the rare open field/bridge fights. I run with a lot of toughness/vitality, which I’ve found good for surviving vs thieves when solo roaming to get supply or intercept lone dolyaks (stalemates, neither of us kill each other). Epidemic is good if running in a group that can stack conditions.

The Bad, aside from bugged stuff that is gradually being fixed:
– PvE: Feels very slow to kill mobs with. Hard to get drops in large groups due to damage you apply taking place so slowly (you get the exp from tagging very easy). Can’t use minions in dungeons as they die instantly. Cannot revive players or interact with things in any elite form or Death shroud…which I feel is quite unfair. Very hard to kill inanimate objects.
- WvW: Necros are so sloooowww. No leaps/jumps/teleports in combat (aside from worm which I find useful only in rare occasions). No Vigor, so dodging is hard to keep up. No swiftness unless you use warhorn which I personally don’t like, or spectral walk which while good means that utility has to be on your bar. No burst, so hard to quickly down anyone to take them out of the fight fast. No stability (sorry, but I don’t count 30 into 1 trait line to toggle in/out of DS for 1 second for stomps). Very hard to catch up to runners…even though that’s supposed to be one of our strong points. Elites/DS drop your 6-10 skills, so no heals, no utilities, etc make them of limited use. Cannot damage siege effectively.

Overall feel: A decent PvE class so long as you don’t mind kills taking forever and you always party up for DEs to get credit for loot drops. Ok as a support class in WvW, but there are much better classes to play as in there, at least at the moment.

Kyton.3815:

I’ve played 4 classes post release and 1 other in the beta. Warrior, Eng, Mesmer, Elementalist, Necro. Necro has been my main and is my only 80 so far, but the others I do have elites unlocked for (30+). Done a lot of WvW, but I’ve only played a handful of sPvp maps so far so can’t say much for that.

The Good:
– PVE: Mob tagging with wells/marks. Good survivability, I died the least on this class while levelling thanks to minions and cripple/freeze + range. Some decent control options in dungeons with blinds ( I love plague form in any non-dredge one).
- WvW: People are terrified of red circles even if they don’t do much to them. Targeted well builds + staff are great for breaking up small zergs in the rare open field/bridge fights. I run with a lot of toughness/vitality, which I’ve found good for surviving vs thieves when solo roaming to get supply or intercept lone dolyaks (stalemates, neither of us kill each other). Epidemic is good if running in a group that can stack conditions.

The Bad, aside from bugged stuff that is gradually being fixed:
– PvE: Feels very slow to kill mobs with. Hard to get drops in large groups due to damage you apply taking place so slowly (you get the exp from tagging very easy). Can’t use minions in dungeons as they die instantly. Cannot revive players or interact with things in any elite form or Death shroud…which I feel is quite unfair. Very hard to kill inanimate objects.
- WvW: Necros are so sloooowww. No leaps/jumps/teleports in combat (aside from worm which I find useful only in rare occasions). No Vigor, so dodging is hard to keep up. No swiftness unless you use warhorn which I personally don’t like, or spectral walk which while good means that utility has to be on your bar. No burst, so hard to quickly down anyone to take them out of the fight fast. No stability (sorry, but I don’t count 30 into 1 trait line to toggle in/out of DS for 1 second for stomps). Very hard to catch up to runners…even though that’s supposed to be one of our strong points. Elites/DS drop your 6-10 skills, so no heals, no utilities, etc make them of limited use. Cannot damage siege effectively.

Overall feel: A decent PvE class so long as you don’t mind kills taking forever and you always party up for DEs to get credit for loot drops. Ok as a support class in WvW, but there are much better classes to play as in there, at least at the moment.

This is the most accurate assessment of the class I’ve read so far, especially the WvW stuff.

Damage output is terrible. Survivability slightly less terrible.

Don’t bother.

The more i play, the more i feel the game is overly focused on mobility as THE defensive mechanism…

I only have one level 80 character and it’s a necro. So, I can’t speak comparatively as well as others. But, from a single skew view point, I find them perfectly fine.

- Just few days ago out of 5 sPvP games, I did 5 MVPs with my necro (I can’t bring up any more recent as I didn’t hit spvp again since then due to exploring LS and time).
- I do DPS perfectly fine, in AoE with wells. It’s a huge damage — especially in PvE.
- I think necros make best farming class as they can literally fill 12 of the 15 skill bars with AoE attacks. And then you got another aoe with death shroud. Between the 13 of those aoe skills, you never need to wait for a cool down to do an aoe attack on a mob.
- Necros have huge survivability. I don’t think every single class needs to just do glass cannons, I don’t know why you’d want to.
- Necros actually do very very well against short burst damage characters because of death shroud. Just hit it in panic and let them waste their skills. By the time you come out of it, they got nothing and you still got 2 dodges left.
- Necros have the best condition removal. And it’s tremendously helpful in parties. Especially dungeons with annoying conditions.
- I can take on as much as 10+ mobs in Orr solo. Best I’ve done and lived is a ~30 mob plus a champion (the event was bugged and spawned a huge number, wasn’t in Orr though).
- In PvP, you can drop most players in 10 seconds. Just check the builds in this forum for well bombs.
- We can precast a lot thanks to marks. Put them down ahead of time, after getting triggered, hit it again. Combined with BiP, you can put 10k+ of bleeding damage on them in 1 second.

At the end of the day, I don’t see what the problem is…

Oh, one huge negative…. Hitting objects… >.> Takes forever. I usually carry a dagger for it, but can’t switch in battle as I already use the 2 weapon slots actively.

And yes… minions suck, vamp is pointless.

There is a thread in the Spvp forum showing hard data that necro is a bottom tier class in TPVP.

Regarding WvW and PvE. Necro and every class is fine, balance issues are not game breaking in those formats there is no need for walls of text talking about how great you do in WvW and PvE. Everysingle class can do great in WvW and PvE because the options of what you do are near endless.

Tpvp has a very specific format and goals. Necros are not needed and are better replaced by a top tier class in Tpvp. The complaints are from Necros that want to Tpvp and be competative without being carried. These are valid complaints backed up by data.

Another 80 Necro here. Fully geared. I laugh at thieves. Guardians don’t give me trouble. The only fight I had trouble with lately was a VERY skilled bunker Elementalist.

I don’t depend on long-lasting conditions. Instead, I front-load my damage with power and precision. I maximize how often DS will be available. It takes a lot of button pushing, and weapon swapping. Timing on DS and using it as often as possible is necessary.

I would say, if you want an easy class – go play warrior. If you want a class that if played right can melt a warrior EVERY TIME, play a necro. One final note: stability and DS. Check out Soul Reaping if you are having problems with survival and the above poster is correct about toughness.

What is this level up you speak of?..

I play a necro in tpvp on off days , and let me tell you, It’s one of the most fun classes out there, definetly worth it in spvp or tpvp.

The condition spec is ‘just’ viable for covering large areas in a lot of dots, unfortunately minion or power-melee is severely lacking.

Either a ranger with a variety of single pets which are not great (they’re fun to collect though as you travel around), but neither are you using a valuable slotted skill for them either to do your ‘tanking’. Or pick up basically one of the heavy armour classes do melee extremely well, can be very durable and much more forgiving of mistakes.

Basically, there’s a lot of complications to an already complicated class that is overwhelming for a lot of people, if they fixed the bugs we’d have a much better idea of what it was truly capable of.

Xom.9264:

There is a thread in the Spvp forum showing hard data that necro is a bottom tier class in TPVP.

Please link me this peer reviewed, TPvP with hard data that has been published by the Scientific Journal of Guild Wars 2 Tournament Association for establishing class tiers!

I have a lvl 80 necro, warrior, elementalist and engineer. I like the necromancer the most out of these four. Maybe some other classes do more damage in specific situations (I find this difficult to compare), but the necromancer is enjoyable to play in pve, wvwvw and pvp. In pve I feel like I have more survivability than other classes (due to death shroud, our high innate HP, aoe blind and chills, a heal that removes all conditions). In wvwvw I think no class is quite as good as doing lots of damage quickly and often to large groups of players from a safe distance (wells, epidemic, staff skills, aoe bleeds). Pvp is probably where I feel weakest, the main reason being that we aren’t fast killers and lack movement skills to evade focus fire. And pets aren’t very good, I hardly ever use them aside from the elite.

Pros:
Survivability
Strong AoE damage

Cons:
Doing damage requires buildup time
Lack of movement skills to supplement dodging
(of course, if we didn’t have these cons necro would be the best class in the game)

Sadly our survivability just means we take longer to die, because in this game taking no damage via player “skill” (more like quick reflexes) while delivering heavy damage via character build is what counts. At least when going PVE.

Honestly, a full stack of healing power barely moves the numbers on any profession, while with a nice stack of critical percentage you virtually triple the output of your attacks. Except that percentages always favors those that have high numbers in the first place (1000 per blow turns into 3000 on crit, while 3000 turns into 9000).

As a player with 4 80s ( Necro, Warrior, Thief, and Engineer) all in full exotics, a couple of ascended pieces, and over 600 hours played (~300 on the Necro) I can safely say that the class is not under powered, but that common Necro builds you run into have serious problems. I’ve tried every common build. Hell, I have 2 full bank slots dedicated to holding my multiple spare Exotic sets for my Necro in case they ever decide to buff some of the builds I’ve experimented with. I’ll give a quick breakdown of the three most common builds I’ve run into, some things to note about each, and the problems inherent in them.

Conditionmancer (by far the most common)
PROS
- Solid AoE damage when given time to ramp up.
- Good counter to boons.
- Very resistant to enemy conditions.
CONS
- Little-to-no access to DS and thus poor access to the boons and survivability it grants.
- Slow ramp-up of damage, especially against enemies with good condition removal.
- Very weak to melee and burst damage.
- Little to no self healing outside of a single 30-second lackluster skill.
NOTES
- Thieves, Rangers, Elementalists, and Mesmers put out more damaging conditions much faster and more reliably.

Well-o-mancer
PROS
- Good area denial.
- Great damage if the enemy sits in your wells.
- Somewhat tanky.
- Solid access to DS.
CONS
- Immobile by design.
- Weak against targets with superior range.
- Weak against targets with good mobility.
- Generally weak to CC.
- Long cooldowns and thus issues with excessive downtime (Though this is often mitigated with DS).
NOTES
- Guardians, Engineers, and Elementalists are better at what this build is attempting to do.

Minionmaster
PROS
- Very good focus-fire damage (once you learn how to control your minions).
- Good access to DS.
- Less demanding than other builds and thus gives the luxury of watching for enemy tells.
CONS
- Weak to AoE.
- Lack of condition clears.
- Limited access to AoE if you want to aim your minions reliably.
NOTES
- Minions tend to target what you are currently damaging, not necessarily what you have targeted. In AoE situations the minions tend to have a hard time deciding on a target due to the aforementioned fact. This is why you see a lot of complaints about minions idling or attacking “random” targets. The main issue with this is that most Necro weapons have some form of inherent AoE.

I personally run a Dagger/Warhorn build with a focus on self-healing, DS, and CC.

Satou.2034:

I have a lvl 80 necro, warrior, elementalist and engineer. I like the necromancer the most out of these four. Maybe some other classes do more damage in specific situations (I find this difficult to compare), but the necromancer is enjoyable to play in pve, wvwvw and pvp. In pve I feel like I have more survivability than other classes (due to death shroud, our high innate HP, aoe blind and chills, a heal that removes all conditions). In wvwvw I think no class is quite as good as doing lots of damage quickly and often to large groups of players from a safe distance (wells, epidemic, staff skills, aoe bleeds). Pvp is probably where I feel weakest, the main reason being that we aren’t fast killers and lack movement skills to evade focus fire. And pets aren’t very good, I hardly ever use them aside from the elite.

Pros:
Survivability
Strong AoE damage

Cons:
Doing damage requires buildup time
Lack of movement skills to supplement dodging
(of course, if we didn’t have these cons necro would be the best class in the game)

Agree with all but the “Lack of Movement skills” part. I used to think the same thing, until I took a closer look at a couple of our movement boosting skills.

Dark Path -> Recently buffed into an excellent gap-closer + decent Chill effect

Warhorn #5 -> Swiftness + AoE Cripple + LF Builder

Spectral Walk -> Swiftness + LF Builder + Mini Teleport + Stun Break; Lots of value for 1 slot, and good at juking out of combat for a quick heal.

Flesh Wurm -> Ranged Turret Minion + Stun Breaker + Ground Target Teleport + AoE Poison + Blast Finisher; Clunky, but brings a ton of utility to the table. If you can put up with the fact that’s it’s a minion (though one of our smarter ones) then you get a lot of value for use of one utility slot.

Since I ditched Conditionmancer and started running as much mobility as I could squeeze into my build, I’ve felt far less like a lumbering, avoidable DoT machine. We can build to be relatively nimble, though we’ll never get as good on this front as the more mobile classes like Thieves. Still, most of the stuff that makes us mobile also offers multiple effects so we get skills with more than one use.

The fact that our primary GTFO button is a pet that everyone can see is a down-side, but with a little preplanning it can be a real life saver.

GottFaust.5297:

NOTES
- Minions tend to target what you are currently damaging, not necessarily what you have targeted. In AoE situations the minions tend to have a hard time deciding on a target due to the aforementioned fact. This is why you see a lot of complaints about minions idling or attacking “random” targets. The main issue with this is that most Necro weapons have some form of inherent AoE.

Except i have seen minions not responding when i clearly only damaged one mob. Could be tho that they have a problem with seeing who the enemy is if you initiate the fight, as i found them quite reliable in the recent karka event. So there could be some AI issue in there in relation to how the fight starts. It could be that the target picking code for the minions only come into play when you are in combat “mode”, meaning that if you initiate the fight the code fails to trigger because you were not in combat when you did the damage. And with no way to order them to attack, we can’t really force them to pick a target.

I pretty much do hot join pvp only – I had played thief pretty much exclusively but just recently started messing around with conditionmancer. I think it’s very fun but as noted in a previous post they lack mobility and survivability compared at least to thief. However, I feel like you can put out a decent amount of bleed damage fairly quickly but it’s a bit tricky to manage. Overall, I enjoy the class so far!! That’s my noob 2 cents

No ‘Kitten’, heaps of fun. Heaps of bugs.

AoE healing, minion swarm looked fun to me. Sadly too buggy to work.

DS Dance direct nuke’er is still giggle-worthy in your face, pvp.

Necro is my only lvl 80. I went conditionmancer for most of my leveling, then switched to minion master for lvls ~60-80. A fully traited MM is actually pretty awesome for PvE, even in Orr. With the right traits, it goes like this:

1. I gain 20 toughness per spawned minion.
2. Minions have 50-60% more health (putting them at a full health bar…I don’t remember the exact percentage off the top of my head).
3. Minions have increased damage (again don’t remember the exact percentage).
4. Minion respawn time is reduced.
5. Minions siphon health from enemies back to me while fighting.
6. Death Shroud’s Life Transfer (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer) siphons health from all enemies within a fairly large radius, transferring it back to myself AND allies (which includes minions).
7. Well of Blood (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Blood) heals myself AND allies (which includes minions).
8. The staff’s Mark of Blood (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Blood) grants regeneration on allies (including minions).

Am I an unstoppable tank? No, but I do have high survivability as long as I utilize my staff combos, hop in and out of DS for minion healing / additional damage, drop the occasional healing well and move around accordingly. Also remember fear is an awesome defensive weapon – I can fear away a group of enemies attacking me with my staff / DS fears long enough to redirect my minions towards them (and then slip myself behind the minions). I can also fear enemies back into marks for all kinds of fun.

With the above I can continuously survive waves of 6+ enemy groups for as long as I need to, even in Orr. Your minions will eventually die, and you will have to run around dodging enemies until their cooldowns are done, but they don’t typically ALL die at once if you’re playing smart – aka, don’t run headlong into huge mobs…

Minion AI isn’t the greatest, but I’ve found that playing a MM requires you to actually pay attention to your minions (weird, I know), so you’ll know pretty quickly if one isn’t attacking the right enemy (or is just standing idly by itself). Either retarget someone new or use the minion’s ability to refocus it. Necromancers excel at AOE, so you ought to have another appropriate target nearby to attack if you’ve correctly corralled them.

I’ve found that while other professions can sometimes do more DD, I always seem to be the best AOE dealer in PvE. I am personally terrible at PvP, but have seem some really great PvP necros there as well. Definitely recommend the profession!

TMcMakeitHappen.1420:

Necro is my only lvl 80. I went conditionmancer for most of my leveling, then switched to minion master for lvls ~60-80. A fully traited MM is actually pretty awesome for PvE, even in Orr. With the right traits, it goes like this:

1. I gain 20 toughness per spawned minion.
2. Minions have 50-60% more health (putting them at a full health bar…I don’t remember the exact percentage off the top of my head).
3. Minions have increased damage (again don’t remember the exact percentage).
4. Minion respawn time is reduced.
5. Minions siphon health from enemies back to me while fighting.
6. Death Shroud’s Life Transfer (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer) siphons health from all enemies within a fairly large radius, transferring it back to myself AND allies (which includes minions).
7. Well of Blood (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Blood) heals myself AND allies (which includes minions).
8. The staff’s Mark of Blood (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Blood) grants regeneration on allies (including minions).

Am I an unstoppable tank? No, but I do have high survivability as long as I utilize my staff combos, hop in and out of DS for minion healing / additional damage, drop the occasional healing well and move around accordingly. Also remember fear is an awesome defensive weapon – I can fear away a group of enemies attacking me with my staff / DS fears long enough to redirect my minions towards them (and then slip myself behind the minions). I can also fear enemies back into marks for all kinds of fun.

With the above I can continuously survive waves of 6+ enemy groups for as long as I need to, even in Orr. Your minions will eventually die, and you will have to run around dodging enemies until their cooldowns are done, but they don’t typically ALL die at once if you’re playing smart – aka, don’t run headlong into huge mobs…

Minion AI isn’t the greatest, but I’ve found that playing a MM requires you to actually pay attention to your minions (weird, I know), so you’ll know pretty quickly if one isn’t attacking the right enemy (or is just standing idly by itself). Either retarget someone new or use the minion’s ability to refocus it. Necromancers excel at AOE, so you ought to have another appropriate target nearby to attack if you’ve correctly corralled them.

I’ve found that while other professions can sometimes do more DD, I always seem to be the best AOE dealer in PvE. I am personally terrible at PvP, but have seem some really great PvP necros there as well. Definitely recommend the profession!

Sure minions might be alright for solo questing, but try that in a dungeon. They will all die immediately to any AoE, plus they will pull mobs you are trying to run and bypass. Not to mention they don’t scale with gear so while you progress and get better stats, they stay the same.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/On-necros-being-broken/first#post856843