Guild Wars 2

Robert Hrouda (Content Designer) once commented a warrior’s solo video:

It is indeed pretty amazing. To be honest though, this can probably be done with enough practice with any class. Smart use of evasion, blocking, and only dodge rolling when you should. He saves his dodge roll for the appropriate times, weapon swaps to let his endurance refill… It is honestly just really solid gameplay regardless of class.
I’m actually trying to figure a way to do this using my ranger with shortbow and sword/dagger.

So, let’s think how exactly it’s possible for a necro? We have less escaping abilities than any other class, no leaps or any other fast movies, we’re the singe class without any block whatsoever, so how?

Firstly, endurance. Being the single class without access to Vigor we can’t speed up its regeneration. Superior Sigil of Energy? You can’t stack them, so it’s only one extra evade every 10 seconds.

As for blocking, the only way I can think about is Superior Rune of Vampirism – You become mist when you fall below 10% health. (Cooldown: 60s)
60 seconds…

On a positive note, we do have 3 seconds for stability every 10 seconds – Foot in the Grave
And this makes us going to full Soul Reaping tree without exception – since it’s the only way to get out from Lupi’s bubble (?). But even so we still have to pray to mighty random – so far as I know, he can do that move 5 times in a row if he feels like it.

As for the build itself, I’m not sure. Glass cannon? We don’t have good, quick dps and going to melee will be a suicide – no block, yay. The only way I can see the fight for necro is conditions and running away for 2, maybe 3 hours.

Anyway, any ideas, or Robert Hrouda as usual just talking bs and it’s impossible for our class?

He is defending his game and class design. He is going to tow the company line because if he doesn’t and he just admits that the situation for a skill capped warrior is significantly better than other classes, then what is he going to do? Nerf warriors?

The issue with that fight and that warrior was the dodge roll trait from the warrior let him get out of the bubble scott free. Intended or not, that is how it worked back then, and may still work.

I think this fight would be solable on a very good mesmer or elementalist as well, as long as they could keep vigor up, and knew when to dodge. I know for a fact, I have done the phase 3 solo on a mesmer before, though it it took a long time. Since he bubbles clones, its not really that hard.

As far as doing it on a necro…. since you have no vigor, or immunities, if you screwed up you are basically dead. Your sustain is also very weak, so you would have to be very good at avoiding all damage. I am not sure you would even be able to DPS a grub down in time, so you would need to dodge roll every grub spawn.

I think maybe back when omnom had no cooldown, with dagger, you might have been able to pull this off if you were amazingly good, perhaps better even than the warrior that made the video, but I would eat my hat (or send 10 gold) to any necro that could pull it off.

Phase three with stability on DS would make that much easier though.

So doable? Prob. not, but certainly theorycraftable. The length of time it would take on a necro would be so much longer, that you would likely die of carpal tunnel before you finished.

Forget about dodge roll trait – I don’t know much about warriors, but I’m sure they have a ton of survivability skills or ways to escape even without that trait.

The main problem, as you said, is time.
Warrior – less than 20 minutes.
Guardian – 30-40 minutes.
I assume for mesmer and ele it will take less then one hour.

But for necro it’s 2 hours at least, with good (for us) dps or conditions, which will be impossible with going to full healing power / toughness – the only way to survive the fight I can think of. So, how much? 3 hours? 4 hours? And how anet can even pretend that it’s balanced?

Before saying stuff…. maybe someone should actually try it first?

I think a power build that focuses on life force gain would be able to do it. Using Death Shroud to soak the damage.

Well I wouldn’t go that far. It would take us way longer than the warrior, but I wouldn’t think it would take that much longer. I of course talk power builds against him, because in stage three he eats conditions regularly, and it literally would take hours to bring him down solo then.

Also checking balance against a mob like that isn’t really a good barometer. Warriors excell there while necros do not. Intra-class balance is really just setup for SPVP.

Ruufio.1496:

Before saying stuff…. maybe someone should actually try it first?

Someone tried it: http://youtu.be/RGphscSuaW8?t=16m22s
Power build, failed miserable.

@Rennoko and where do necro excell? most encounters are made for power / burst well actually each and every encounter is except maybe the water boss in fractal that actually makes epidemic feel good not that its needed there but still.

Have you tried the Half Baked Komali in guild bounty? finally a mob that takes low dmg from power making condition awesome for once………………or that is what it would have been if he didnt remove condition instantly making power yet again the only choice and condition completely useless.

He did pretty decent for a while, but he chose stupid utilities. Well of Suffering, why? It didn’t really do anything. Spectral Armor was junk too. Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm would probably help a lot.

Well of Suffering – for insects. We’re the singe class without aoe on our auto-attack, or how that thing called…
As for Spectral Armor – yeah, with 90 seconds cd it’s kinda useless.

wiazabi.2549:

@Rennoko and where do necro excell? most encounters are made for power / burst well actually each and every encounter is except maybe the water boss in fractal that actually makes epidemic feel good not that its needed there but still.

Necro’s excel in surviving, 1v1, and conditions. Necromancers have access to some of the best 1v1 builds in the game, we have by far the best condition control overall, and have the best survival. Unfortunately, our survival is unique in that it works incredibly well against a lot of trash mobs or in PvP, but is much, much worse against big bosses; whereas other types of survival tend to translate much better to boss fights.

It’s humorous that warriors are considered so great for pve and dungeon encounters, and considered virtually worthless in tournaments. While elementalist disappear in high end dungeons, but are everywhere in tournaments and wvwvw.

On a side note, the ability to solo a boss is not considered to be anything I would worry about when considering our viability. In terms of can a Necro do it, I am sure with enough practice and the right gear he could. How long is another story?

In the end, he said exactly what I would have said. Conceivably with the right build and gear any class has the potential to do it. What does this prove? Does it prove warriors are more viable? No, it proves that getting everything perfect a warrior can do something you can’t do in that amount of time, but you can still do it.

THE WORD IS SOLOING. PLEASE CHANGE THE TOPIC!

Bhawb.7408:

wiazabi.2549:

@Rennoko and where do necro excell? most encounters are made for power / burst well actually each and every encounter is except maybe the water boss in fractal that actually makes epidemic feel good not that its needed there but still.

Necro’s excel in surviving, 1v1, and conditions. Necromancers have access to some of the best 1v1 builds in the game, we have by far the best condition control overall, and have the best survival. Unfortunately, our survival is unique in that it works incredibly well against a lot of trash mobs or in PvP, but is much, much worse against big bosses; whereas other types of survival tend to translate much better to boss fights.

I will echo that the survival of a necro is literally geared towards “I have to survive 50,000 damage that can happen anytime in the next 30 seconds”. That is pretty good for WvW (in some cases), and in PVE in big mob pulls (like urban fractal). Where it blows horribly is when a mob is about to hit you for 20,000+, and you see it coming, and you have no dodge. Since we have no invuln for that situation, just being a necro sucks right then and there. Again the problem at the higher skill caps, as players learn when to pop immunities at just the right time, is that we don’t have that option.

However, I don’t agree too much on the 1v1 superiority. We are comparable in 1v1, somewhere in the middle of the pack, but by no means the champ. Condition control would be more meaningful if conditions had sharper teeth, but we do control them quite well. Also if we are talking 1v1 it depends on Spvp/wvw and how much DS you start with. WvW, we are pretty well off, and counter most builds. Spvp, since we start with zero DS have a much much harder time.

Rennoko.5731:

Bhawb.7408:

wiazabi.2549:

@Rennoko and where do necro excell? most encounters are made for power / burst well actually each and every encounter is except maybe the water boss in fractal that actually makes epidemic feel good not that its needed there but still.

Necro’s excel in surviving, 1v1, and conditions. Necromancers have access to some of the best 1v1 builds in the game, we have by far the best condition control overall, and have the best survival. Unfortunately, our survival is unique in that it works incredibly well against a lot of trash mobs or in PvP, but is much, much worse against big bosses; whereas other types of survival tend to translate much better to boss fights.

I will echo that the survival of a necro is literally geared towards “I have to survive 50,000 damage that can happen anytime in the next 30 seconds”. That is pretty good for WvW (in some cases), and in PVE in big mob pulls (like urban fractal). Where it blows horribly is when a mob is about to hit you for 20,000+, and you see it coming, and you have no dodge. Since we have no invuln for that situation, just being a necro sucks right then and there. Again the problem at the higher skill caps, as players learn when to pop immunities at just the right time, is that we don’t have that option.

However, I don’t agree too much on the 1v1 superiority. We are comparable in 1v1, somewhere in the middle of the pack, but by no means the champ. Condition control would be more meaningful if conditions had sharper teeth, but we do control them quite well. Also if we are talking 1v1 it depends on Spvp/wvw and how much DS you start with. WvW, we are pretty well off, and counter most builds. Spvp, since we start with zero DS have a much much harder time.

How to kill pretty much anyone 1v1:
- Use Soldier’s amulet
- 2xRune of Svanir, 2xRune of Ice, 2x Rune of Sanctuary
- Staff with Sigil of Hydromancy, Axe/Focus (one with Sigil of Hydromancy)
- Use this build (copy and paste into browser location) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAndWjMal6ta2a07JApHPT90TK4GcIF5KNA;TsAA1CtoEyImQMLUOhkQtgYUw0CA

With this build you have 27312hp, 2805 armor, 2133 power, 30% minion damage, constant life siphons from minion attacks and your own attacks, 60% chill duration, AoE chill whenever you swap weapons. You can keep people chilled non-stop and let your minions run rampant on them. Should they destroy your minions with AoE then they will be eating a patch of poison. Also make sure you explode your bone minions whenever they are within range of your target. It’s pretty fun and lulzy.

Sorry to get offtopic.

Its actually 80% chill because of your points in spite. And in Spvp I can see that working. However it only works, because in Spvp people have to stay in close to take the point, and thus are constantly chilled. Not viable in WvW, mostly because of the minions, but it looks fun in spvp.

Rennoko.5731:

Its actually 80% chill because of your points in spite. And in Spvp I can see that working. However it only works, because in Spvp people have to stay in close to take the point, and thus are constantly chilled. Not viable in WvW, mostly because of the minions, but it looks fun in spvp.

Very true. This build is really only for spvp or possibly as a roaming necro who may only fight a small number of people. It suffers against zerg fights (which is unfortunately 90% of WvW encounters).

Rennoko.5731:

However, I don’t agree too much on the 1v1 superiority. We are comparable in 1v1, somewhere in the middle of the pack, but by no means the champ. Condition control would be more meaningful if conditions had sharper teeth, but we do control them quite well. Also if we are talking 1v1 it depends on Spvp/wvw and how much DS you start with. WvW, we are pretty well off, and counter most builds. Spvp, since we start with zero DS have a much much harder time.

1v1 depends a lot on builds, because when you get down to 1v1 you start getting into hard/soft counters. For example, MMs with Minions stripping boon completely shuts down guardians and elementalists. However, MMs can be wrecked by P/D thieves. It gets into a cycle of just having the right build.

Overall though, we have great 1v1 tools. DS can absorb a full glass cannon thief burst, MM builds are one of the best overall 1v1 builds in the game, and power/well builds will completely wreck anyone that doesn’t stun break and roll out fast enough. Our condition builds aren’t great in 1v1, but all the builds listed above still have tons of access to non-damaging conditions.

The only class that I would say outclasses necros in 1v1 are mesmers, with thieves being more related to build vs build and skill.

@Kidbs, thanks for the idea to use hydromancy sigil, I’m definitely going to try that out.

Bhawb.7408:

Overall though, we have great 1v1 tools. DS can absorb a full glass cannon thief burst,

It can, but it can’t stop that thief from going back into stealth with smoke bomb and using his regen on stealth and passive condition removal in stealth to come back at you with full life after your DS bar is empty.

Spvp it is fine, WvW it isn’t even close. Keeping track of thieves when they get 4 seconds per stealth and the ability to be invisible nearly constantly isn’t a solution to actually killing them. I think Bas said it best when he said he considers it a victory if the thief leaves, not dies. 1v1 kings in WvW are always mesmer/thief/elementalist, because they never have to die, but will frequently win.

I don’t consider 1v1s in WvW to “count” really. You can make thieves/eles run away all the time, if you are okay with that as a win then we are still great. The difference in WvW is there is just so much area to run around in that mobility wins outright, it has nothing to do with who would have actually won had the fight continued, they will just run away and try to get a reset.

For stealth, that is why I said it comes down to build vs build and skill. They do much better against condition builds because they can heal/cure conditions in stealth, however against power/minion builds it is completely possible to chain CC them long enough to put them down, and stealthing for them only brings up some HP.

I’m actually very interested in this idea soloing Lupicus challenge that everyone seems to be doing.

I’m also quite surprised no-ones said the obvious, Death Shroud. It acts as a block on command for any amount of damage so long as you can get 10% life force every 10 seconds.

Would just need to find out what would be more effective when fighting, Power or Condition. My thinking is a fully geared out Rabid Condition build with 100% bleed duration (Pizza, 2 Afflicted, 4 Mad King and Curses II) would be the best bet.

Remember one of his skills is to eat conditions. Not sure if he just clears them or gets life back. I would think zerker would be a beter choice, with a 30/15/X/X/X setup.

The big issue is that his putrid bolt thing he casts hits for like 9k on someone with 1800 toughness. You have to dodge roll it, and it happens all the time. No vigor, means you are going to have a really rough go of it.

Using DS at 10% to absorb that is a great idea, and one that I had no considered. It still leaves little room for error though.

EDIT: Opps, you need 30 in DS for stability, otherwise you can’t get through stage 3. Not sure what build you would need to use… lol

You could change out whatever you wanted, since besides 30 SR I can’t think of any required defensive traiting you need, meaning all the rest of your traits aren’t going to make the fight any more doable, just faster.

It’s not about traits, we need DS always available for stability, so using it for blocking stuff during 3rd phase is out of question.

I’m still thinking about the build/gear, but as for skills/weapons:
Staff – 4% (?) life force from auto-attack, 3% from marks with a trait.
Sigil of Energy (50% of endurance on swap)

Axe – 2nd skill gives 9% life force.
Sigil of Intelligence (100% crit chance on swap)
/
Warhorn – (for Locust Swarm)
Sigil of Energy

Skills:
Signet of the Locust.
Spectral Walk – we need a stun break in case of knockback.
Well of Suffering – mostly for first phase, but we also can use it before Lupi’s shadowstep.

Food:
Mango Pie for first phase.
Pizza for rest of the battle.

Powerful Potion of Undead Slaying (+10% damage vs undead; -10% damage from undead)

Most damage will be from bleeds (2nd staff skills), + some from 2nd axe. I don’t want to use scepter because of evade issue (dunno if it still has it) + it’s just slow.

I can get him to phase 3, but then it’s Not Enough Energy and Death Shroud even with high vitality and 30 pts in Soul Reaping gets eaten by the first big attack. I’m starting to think it’s not possible with a necromancer because it’s the only class with no way of gaining Endurance/Vigor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endurance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

I use sigils of energy on both weapons and endurance food.

It might be easier with a Charr, since the Hidden Pistol is a dodge skill on a 15 second cooldown. I know I use it when I fight Lupi. It’s up every time he uses his green bolts attack if I used it during the last round, so it should be a load of help. Would have to replace Well of Suffering, though, as Specrtral Walk’s stunbreak and the Signet’s mobility are too important.

Food might be best to grab the food that gives bonus endurance regen, since Dodging really is key for Lupi.

I’ve actually found Well of Power to be a pretty reliable source of vigor. It seems like it always grants me vigor when I’m removing bleeding.

So… Blood is Power + Well of Power = vigor for 10s. Not sure how useful that is, but I thought I’d at least draw some attention to it.

I ve been planing to solo lupy for a while , have my build , but im in a 1 man guild ( im kinda a loner type of a guy ) but if someone is willing to help he get to him would love to finally go 1 v 1 with him. If any1 is willing to help me thx in advance, i play on gandara EU.

Well so far i know that a Warrior, Guardian, Thief, Elementalist and Mesmer got to solo GL, my guess is that we can too, just with enough tries and the right build setup.
I know its not really a feat, but if a necro can get to Lyssa boss (before he dies over and over again because of 25 confusion stacks to just have 2 tokens at the end before giving up) in half masterworked half rare gear on release Arah, anything can be done with enough planning.

That’s a cool trick Nar, though I’m not sure 2 utilites are worth it.

Akame if you’re in N.A. add me and we could go together and try path 2 and take turns at lupicus.

Andele – Ranger and Engineer both have source to endurance regeneration, engineer would be easier because of invulnerable skills and skills that reflect projectiles though ranger would be next. I think necro has it tough because the way our profession works. It would make sense if we had a trait that grant vigor for 5s when going in Death Shroud.

Zogyark.4597:

That’s a cool trick Nar, though I’m not sure 2 utilites are worth it.

Akame if you’re in N.A. add me and we could go together and try path 2 and take turns at lupicus.

Andele – Ranger and Engineer both have source to endurance regeneration, engineer would be easier because of invulnerable skills and skills that reflect projectiles though ranger would be next. I think necro has it tough because the way our profession works. It would make sense if we had a trait that grant vigor for 5s when going in Death Shroud.

New Trait: Feast on Fear
When you successfully fear a target you gain endurance.

New Trait: Cling to Life
When you reach zero Life Force you gain Vigor for 5s

Put them wherever makes sense, but I’d hope the 2 silly Minion minor traits in the toughness line.

You know, i dont think necros would need vigor if DS actually counted as a full second life bar (as in can tank just as much, but still degenerates), especially on a LF generation setup via Staff/Dagger & Warhorn

@Zogyark.4597 didnt get any1 to help me T.T. So F it if you still wiling to go will transfer to NA, its kinda sucky due to lag but i want Lupys head

Akame.1073:

@Zogyark.4597 didnt get any1 to help me T.T. So F it if you still wiling to go will transfer to NA, its kinda sucky due to lag but i want Lupys head

We can go next saturday? 10 a.m. US eastern time is best for me if you want to find out what that is in your time ;p

Andele.1306:

You know, i dont think necros would need vigor if DS actually counted as a full second life bar (as in can tank just as much, but still degenerates), especially on a LF generation setup via Staff/Dagger & Warhorn

Given that by default your max Life Force is equal to or greater than your normal HP…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Andele.1306:

You know, i dont think necros would need vigor if DS actually counted as a full second life bar (as in can tank just as much, but still degenerates), especially on a LF generation setup via Staff/Dagger & Warhorn

Given that by default your max Life Force is equal to or greater than your normal HP…

Evidence to support this would be appreciated. My testing indicates that it only represents around 60% of your total HP, with some unusual interactions with fall damage/DOT damage. Other tests when looking at how direct damage effects DS, have indicated that it does not equal your normal HP bar in size.

Not saying it should, just saying the previous poster was pointing out that if you had that extra several thousand HP, it would make a difference. Personally I disagree with that… as soaking 5-8 thousand more damage hardly makes up for being able to dodge 9k damage 1.5 times as often (vigor).

There’s a whole thread about this. The life force pool is roughly 60% of your hp, with soul reaping it gets to about 76%, so it’s not a full 2nd bar, against lupicus you can kiss your lf good bye if you try to soak a huge attack (like the siphon, or jump siphon).

Zogyark.4597:

I can get him to phase 3, but then it’s Not Enough Energy and Death Shroud even with high vitality and 30 pts in Soul Reaping gets eaten by the first big attack. I’m starting to think it’s not possible with a necromancer because it’s the only class with no way of gaining Endurance/Vigor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endurance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

I use sigils of energy on both weapons and endurance food.

Demonstrating how powerful, if not downright OP, ANet has made the dodge mechanic.

I understand that they wanted a more active game, but this seems to border on tragically heavy handed.

I’ll leave this here

Halo.8976:

Anyway, any ideas, or Robert Hrouda as usual just talking bs and it’s impossible for our class?

well don’t you feel dumb now ;]

Aphix.9846:

Halo.8976:

Anyway, any ideas, or Robert Hrouda as usual just talking bs and it’s impossible for our class?

well don’t you feel dumb now ;]

Why should I?
I started this thread for sharing ideas and thoughts of interesting challenge. My build and initial strategy failed, but I can live with it. Props to Orochi and his skills. Doubt I can follow his timing myself.

Instead, I’d feel dumb for acting important because of somebody’s achievement.