Tales of a Melee Necro
It is bad build completely without synergy what so ever and with realy low armor.
Do not try to build some “new” awesome build. All is well known and that is the reason why there are only like 1-3 builds per class.
First off I never said that I was making an awesome build. Secondly, there is little cause for such obvious disgust. I’m not going to apologize for wanting to play the game my way. Now if you can offer something constructive other than “Go play this cookie cutter build” I’m all ears.
But thank you for commenting your thoughts.
That is not about me to decide, but about anet to make more build variety with balance. That wont happen as they need 6 months for 4 changes you know.
Yep, you can play such build but dont be upset when you will be stomped to the ground.
When you try to do some build, please, at least make certain specific role you want that build to fulfill well. Having “melee” necro with 2161 armor with 2x off hand dagger is… interesting. Vampiric precision knocked me down. Spectrall attunement wont help you much(no last gasp). Having healing power on necro is also waste. You can actually refill those point where they will matter.
I know the old times when ppl went hybrid with necro. Please Dont.
(edited by DriV.6203)
Almost any decent pvp power necro runs dagger, so, well….
[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
As a fellow necromancer who tries to shoot out on his own with builds, I admire and respect your attempt at melee. Respectfully, I offer the following changes to help you.
Elite
I’ve found out that, as a melee necro, it’s best to adopt hit-and-run tactics until your opponent gets off-balance then go hyper-aggressive and pursue until the battle’s won. As such, I’d swap out Lich form for Warband Support (as a Charr) or Plague to help increase survivability. Additionally, Flesh Golem with its on-demand knockdown and nigh perma-cripple could be a wise choice as well.
Traits
Spectral Attunement for one skill is a wasted trait slot. I’d swap it out with Hemophilia, Enfeebling Shroud, or Banshee’s Wail and pick up Warhorn as an offhand for your dagger. Yes, running two daggers looks cool and you’ve said you like the Chill procs off Deathly Swarm, but Locust Swarm’s 10 aoe hits cannot be overlooked— with this build, that equate to 10 additional Vampiric procs and a possible 10 additional Vampiric Precision procs as well. Not to mention you’ll be thankful for the cripple & swiftness if you find yourself on the defensive and have to run. Additionally, I’d swap Dagger Mastery for Mark of Evasion: the added regen on dodge could probably help more than a reduced CD on Life Siphon.
Skills
Consume Conditions in place of Signet of Vampirism. CC can spell a full hp restore if used in a SHTF scenario. Still, if you “believe” in SoV, at least swap out some sigils for generosity. You cannot rely on Deathly Swarm to handle all of your condition clears.
Gear
Replace the Chrysocola gems with Coral gems. Just doing this increases your crit chance to 65%. To put it another way, about 2 of every 3 of your strikes will proc Vampiric & Vampiric precision in addition to simply hitting harder.
There probably are other better changes to be had, but I believe these would be best to optimize your build and keep it “feeling” the same.
Homeworld: Dragonbrand—Necro main Sors Immani, leader of Ripple Effect [RE]
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
I feel the need to reiterate: The dagger in the second set is just there because I like the bleed synergy with scepter and blind/chill, NOT because I think that it is optimal. If you have a better suggestion for the scepter pairing by all means tell me, and please tell me why.
“Having “melee” necro with 2161 armor with 2x off hand dagger is… interesting.”
What is a healthy HP/Armor goal for a melee? I’ve seen a lot of hate for the offhand dagger but not a lot of explanation (aside for Sors Immani’s Warhorn suggestion) what is your counter to Dagger?
“As a fellow necromancer who tries to shoot out on his own with builds, I admire and respect your attempt at melee. Respectfully, I offer the following changes to help you.”
Thank you Sir! I know I’m swimming against the stream here but it is nice not to be kitten on for it lol.
“Elite
I’ve found out that, as a melee necro, it’s best to adopt hit-and-run tactics until your opponent gets off-balance then go hyper-aggressive and pursue until the battle’s won. As such, I’d swap out Lich form for Warband Support (as a Charr) or Plague to help increase survivability. Additionally, Flesh Golem with its on-demand knockdown and nigh perma-cripple could be a wise choice as well.”
I’ve tested Plague and to be honest I like it as a defensive CD but I feel the damage is undewhelming by comparison to Lich’s constant crits (I don’t know if I’m just lucky or what but I ALWAYS crit in Lich form). This being said I plan to go Plague once I get 850 Condi on my gear. Warband is an interesting offensive choice, I haven’t tested the damage from it much because the 4 minute CD and 30 second up-time put me off from using it. I will have to test it before I comment further. Finally we come to the Golem… I like everything it brings except for the big glowing sign that a clothy is trying to melee. I’ve also found that my golems are terribly squishy If there is a way to fix the squishy part I would consider this right behind Plague Form.
“Traits
Spectral Attunement for one skill is a wasted trait slot. I’d swap it out with Hemophilia, Enfeebling Shroud, or Banshee’s Wail and pick up Warhorn as an offhand for your dagger. Yes, running two daggers looks cool and you’ve said you like the Chill procs off Deathly Swarm, but Locust Swarm’s 10 aoe hits cannot be overlooked— with this build, that equate to 10 additional Vampiric procs and a possible 10 additional Vampiric Precision procs as well. Not to mention you’ll be thankful for the cripple & swiftness if you find yourself on the defensive and have to run. Additionally, I’d swap Dagger Mastery for Mark of Evasion: the added regen on dodge could probably help more than a reduced CD on Life Siphon.” Lastly the Dagger mastery trait, I “feel” like Dagger Mastery just provides a pure DPS increase over the other options but I’ve not found anything to prove this so I will at the very least try it out.
Yes, I’m only using that trait point for Spectral Armor and I do not regret it in the least. the additional 3 seconds of -33% damage is amazing. On to Warhorn, the only real argument I can offer to Warhorn (aside from “I like D/D”) is in the form of a question:
Do you not also strike with the offhand dagger when you are attacking? I am current;y under the impression that you do not with the WH and Foci.
“Skills
Consume Conditions in place of Signet of Vampirism. CC can spell a full hp restore if used in a SHTF scenario. Still, if you “believe” in SoV, at least swap out some sigils for generosity. You cannot rely on Deathly Swarm to handle all of your condition clears.”
kitten ! I completely over looked that when I was tweaking it. Yeah, I typically run Clear Condi but just forgot that I had it on.
In response to this:
“When you try to do some build, please, at least make certain specific role you want that build to fulfill well. Having “melee” necro with 2161 armor with 2x off hand dagger is… interesting. Vampiric precision knocked me down. Spectrall attunement wont help you much(no last gasp). Having healing power on necro is also waste. You can actually refill those point where they will matter.”
Please note that I went all in on the Death Magic tree not because I wanted the traits rather because I wanted the passive toughness. and the final trait skill. Having never looked into this tree I have no idea of the value of the respective traits.
With the tweaked gear and consumables I find that 64% Crit chance is quite sufficient. and at 3k armor I should be pretty tough for a clothy, Thoughts?
In response to this:
I made this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQRBIRtG2IHNN2WbjlN83mAXokeFih9dqmA6FIAaBA-TVCBABfcCA4R9no3fYWlgKp8jF9DLY+DgnAgHHEASBUxCA-wPlease note that I went all in on the Death Magic tree not because I wanted the traits rather because I wanted the passive toughness. and the final trait skill. Having never looked into this tree I have no idea of the value of the respective traits.
With the tweaked gear and consumables I find that 64% Crit chance is quite sufficient. and at 3k armor I should be pretty tough for a clothy, Thoughts?
This looks better. Still there are some adjustment here and there that needs to be done.
1. If you still want to have scepter even if you do not have much condi, swap dd with warhorn to have dw/sd, but i still think that scepter is bad wpn in this build.
2. get rid of sigil of rage (3s quickness with 30cd…) you do not have any vigor, so if you dont know what to take, sigil of energy is always a good choice.
3. rune of exuberance is interesting, but in your build you are focusing more on toughness and your vitality is still only 1200 which limits its potential greatly.
4. trinkets can be in full ascended, it will gives you more points. Exotic is a low end (as you can obtain ascendet trinkets from multiple sources now)
5. Food. Omnombery ghost, Lemongrass soup or even a spici beans (with rune of ice it can do a lot). Those first two are the best options though.
6. swap SoL with Well of power or something that is not so worthless. You have 30% boon duration from death magic, BiP might help (then change signet mastery).
Else seems fine.
I’m sure after a good thinking session i could think of some tinkering notes, but first thing that comes to mind is, swap out scepter for axe – i know you like your scepter, but hear me out; the axe 2 is high dps and is great for gaining life-force ,axe 3 cripples, but also grants retaliation – which for the necro, is awesome. (I’ll duel ppl and the most heard complaint that i get is, “kitten that retal”). You get less range for more up close fighting, but w d/d as your primary/secondary, i’d imagine thats no problem.
- Through personal opinion, i’d also recommend plague signet instead of locust – a lot of ppl will disagree w me here, but buck em. Plague signet in so many situations has been able to save me or be the clutch move in beginning my counter attack. the break-stun is perfect, and the condi swap is awesome.
-I’d also dump the accuracy sigils and go bloodlust and battle. – simply because your crit’s aren’t enhanced much through ferocity, but stacking up might will be a good asset.
- so in relation to might stacking and concerning your runes, if you like exuberance, keep em. but if you wanna try something else, try saving up for strength runes. i run mad king currently, but in PvP i love the strength runes.
Lastly, i just gotta support the golem. I don’t use it, bcuz i like lich form. But if i didn’t like/use lich form so much, i’d be using the golem – what most ppl do though, is use it right away and just let it run w them everywhere, and your right, it definitely shows the enemy there’s a necro out there. Thats why i like to save it, and bring it out only when its safe and smart (so like when the enemy/target is at 35-50% health). it’s a little risky by not having it out and constantly doing/attempting damage, but it avoids the problem of it being dead or on CD when u need it. Plague form definitely does have its use though when in big group fights.
I’m not as fond of how this build plays as the previous builds but it’s a blatant rip off of another build ( http://www.sosgw2.com/home/m/22639769/viewthread/12502168-power-necro-builds-for-wvw-pve 3rd post down is the build in question), It is without question a more resilient build but I’m not over fond of the reliance on wells. I also had to settle for the Traveler Sigils for the move speed (I hate being slow, and the horn just isn’t up enough).
The new build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQRBIhdu1IHNN22TjrNc4moWokOGuhAeypoLgsODAA-TVSAABfcCAKc/BlU+xj6PAY+LkDCQL6HsQJIBPBACBIYMA-w
Like I said I’m not much of a fan of the style, the ONLY reason the horn and foci aren’t swapped is because of the 4 skill on the Foci synergy with the ax. With the version of this I’m running It is possible to burst down people fairly quick but I find myself constantly being out run. Not to mention I can’t kill them before they kill me (Granted this is a tankier build than mine).
I will note that I updated this after being awake for entirely too long so I’m sure I kittened up somewhere.
I feel the need to reiterate: The dagger in the second set is just there because I like the bleed synergy with scepter and blind/chill, NOT because I think that it is optimal. If you have a better suggestion for the scepter pairing by all means tell me, and please tell me why.
Yes, I’m only using that trait point for Spectral Armor and I do not regret it in the least. the additional 3 seconds of -33% damage is amazing. On to Warhorn, the only real argument I can offer to Warhorn (aside from “I like D/D”) is in the form of a question:
Do you not also strike with the offhand dagger when you are attacking? I am current;y under the impression that you do not with the WH and Foci.
No, you do do not strike with OH dagger when you are attacking, hence the suggestion to run warhorn; its AoE/cone interrupt & pulsing AoE/cripple/swiftness is not to be overlooked, especially when you’re running any mechanic that focuses not on the amount of damage you deal per hit, but the number of hits you deal (even more so when critical hits do NOT appear to be normalized – someone correct me if I am wrong on this). The dagger would do well with Scepter and allow for a nice condition bomb (scepter AA bleed/poison + enfeeble/bleed + blind/chill/condi xfer).
Now, if you’re really intent on running a lot of condition damage, you may want to look into +condi duration as well. In addition, there’s always Parasitic Contagion to throw in for added (albeit weak) demi-siphon.
Regarding Spectral Armor: it’s your call on whether or not to burn the mid-tier trait solely for it. I suppose Banshee’s Wail is the other side of that coin, only supporting 2 skills. Then again, there’s always Enfeebling Shroud. You can always take it, then in combat flash DS long enough to start Tainted Shackles & hit Doom. Ideally, your target would be fleeing while Torment piled up on him, then start running back to you when the Immob would hit. At that point, you’re out of DS and with the D/W set, you’ve got Fury on you and they’ve been hit with a total of Bleed, Torment, Weakness and are still Immobilized long enough to get Wail of Doom off on them, chain to Locust Swarm, then Dark Pact for additional Immob. Then you flank them and unload with LS & Dagger AA. When they come to, you can swap to Scepter/Dagger and Enfeeble/Deathly away from them to start the cycle over again. In theory, anyway.
To clarify my elite suggestions: Plague and Warband support were suggested not as a way to increase DPS, but to help turn the tide of battle if you find yourself on the defensive. I meant these to be taken as defensive suggestions, not offensive. The fleshy is my go-to offensive elite (occasionally running Hounds of Balthazar and SUPER occasionally Reaper of Grenth since I play hooman), I find the on-demand KD is a great opener and usually tosses my target into a panic mode. Panic mode = mistakes = easier/more secure win. That’s my playstyle, though: defensive and reactionary, goading my target to make a mistake to exploit; be the mountain and allow your enemies to drive themselves mad bringing you down, at that point become the avalanche.
And yes, it’s always great to find others who also go against the grain.
Homeworld: Dragonbrand—Necro main Sors Immani, leader of Ripple Effect [RE]
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
I’m not as fond of how this build plays as the previous builds but it’s a blatant rip off of another build ( http://www.sosgw2.com/home/m/22639769/viewthread/12502168-power-necro-builds-for-wvw-pve 3rd post down is the build in question), It is without question a more resilient build but I’m not over fond of the reliance on wells. I also had to settle for the Traveler Sigils for the move speed (I hate being slow, and the horn just isn’t up enough).
The new build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQRBIhdu1IHNN22TjrNc4moWokOGuhAeypoLgsODAA-TVSAABfcCAKc/BlU+xj6PAY+LkDCQL6HsQJIBPBACBIYMA-wLike I said I’m not much of a fan of the style, the ONLY reason the horn and foci aren’t swapped is because of the 4 skill on the Foci synergy with the ax. With the version of this I’m running It is possible to burst down people fairly quick but I find myself constantly being out run. Not to mention I can’t kill them before they kill me (Granted this is a tankier build than mine).
I’d suggest using Air or Fire sigils in lieu of Force. Remember, you’re not going to have a few heavy hits, but rather a bunch of lesser hits (think "1,000 needles from Final Fantasy: each hit was small, but accumulated). Ideally, with Air/Fire, you should be having enough critical hits for the rune to proc on CD.
Between Spectral Grasp and Dark Pact, you should have your target on lockdown (Dark Path, too.)
Homeworld: Dragonbrand—Necro main Sors Immani, leader of Ripple Effect [RE]
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
“I’d suggest using Air or Fire sigils in lieu of Force. Remember, you’re not going to have a few heavy hits, but rather a bunch of lesser hits (think “1,000 needles from Final Fantasy: each hit was small, but accumulated). Ideally, with Air/Fire, you should be having enough critical hits for the rune to proc on CD.”
I’d thought about that but with the build swerving wildly away from the original crit-based procc’s in favor of full on power and tank I just don’t think that I will see the “on-crit” sigils enough for them to have a meaningful impact.
I’d thought about that but with the build swerving wildly away from the original crit-based procc’s in favor of full on power and tank I just don’t think that I will see the “on-crit” sigils enough for them to have a meaningful impact.
5% increase on the dagger AA equates to an additional 150 damage. The sigils do not increase the damage on Vampiric/Vamp Precision procs (and if they do, the math only indicates it’s an additional 4 damage – rounded up – across both procs). You may be better off with on-kill, on non-critical hit, or condition duration sigils.
With the current build’s critical % so low (6% if I clicked the correct one), you would be better off scrapping Vamp Precision for Mark of Evasion. The value of Regen + Bleed on demand with a dodge/roll is not to be underestimated.
Dark Armor could also be scrapped. The added toughness on channel is nice, though channeling leaves you open to interrupts which renders the trait useless. I would suggest taking Ritual of Protection (since you’re intent on running wells with Ritual Mastery, and added Prot on WoP in addition to its stability/stun-break, and condi conversion is almost too good to pass up), Shrouded Removal because a free condi cleanse is always nice, or my personal favorite, Spiteful Vigor: because if you’re hitting your healing skill, you’re about to be burst down and the Retal returns a good portion of that burst (specifically if it’s multi-strike burst such as 100b, Rapid Fire, Unload, iDuelist, and so forth) to its source. Also, because Retal has no ICD, it’s a great as-set (darn filter) when you’re outnumbered. In essence, its free damage that gets more effective the more you’re hit.
Back on the topic of wells in this build, you might want to swap out SoS for WoC, if only to deal with boon-heavy opponents and add a bit of psychological warfare to the mix. I cannot stress enough how much online gaming (particularly any form of PvP) revolves around the player’s psyche. The “hardcore” players especially, as they have a tendency to enter panic-mode if their plans are interrupted/altered without their input.
I’ll leave you with this nugget of wisdom I’ve discovered while playing this game: you can swap weapons (aside from the 2 sets you have equipped), traits, and skills anytime you’re not in combat— even if you’re charging headlong into a zerg. I’ve found it best to have one major build archetype with different skill/weapon/trait variations you can quickly plug in to deal with different situations as they arise.
Homeworld: Dragonbrand—Necro main Sors Immani, leader of Ripple Effect [RE]
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
I think that during the course of development of this build it’s effectively changing (or changed) into a cookie-cutter powermancer build. While I don’t mind this in theory I’ve found that I just don’t care for the style of play that comes from this change. One would think that it would be a simple transition from D/D to D/W + A/F but for some reason I just can’t seem to get this style to work for me.
I’ll keep trying but I expect that I will end up changing things drastically either within the class or by leveling a new one altogether.
In the end, all you can do is play how you want to play and disregard what I, or anyone else have to say.
Learn from your mistakes, learn what does and does not work for you, and remember to not be afraid to swap out skills/traits/gear on the fly and between encounters.
Homeworld: Dragonbrand—Necro main Sors Immani, leader of Ripple Effect [RE]
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
aka Thalakos Dralnu, Voxt Umultus, and Jalis Haafingar.
Vulgarity is no substitution for wit.
I can relate, Kritisch. Take a look at this build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Post-Your-Build-Thread/page/4#post3947087
It might work as an inspiration as it is a hardy melee build that can work on PvE and WvW, with a high crit rate and plenty armor. You’ll probably not be the hardest hitting guy around, but you’ll last quite a lot.
Although not built as a “melee necro” per se, but rather a durable well bomber, my build performs well in that capacity. Been using it for quite a while now.
I drop wells/marks and DS 4,5 on pushes and then melee, preferably backliners, while waiting for CDs. Swap out Spite signet for WoD when the guild needs it. Main hand dagger is obviously very high DPS.
Aside from the 4,5 skills, I reserve DS for defense since damage actually drops when in it. Plus, I know I can go deep (talking T1 blobs here) when I have a full bar of life force. Plague I also try reserve for getting out of immob bombs or for general survival, although I’ll use it if it’s called for.
Runes of Exuberance are fantastic on high vit necros. Also a fan of the off hand dagger, and not just for the speed buff trait… the condi transfer and AOE weakness are very useful.
I WvW almost exclusively and have tried so many specs. Using a Dagger-Focus / Staff, and the following spec’, I’ve had far more success than with any other.
I get targetable Wells, lots of Retaliation, high armor and great dagger burst. Until I came up with this spec, I felt like a walking WvW bag.
IS what I generally use. Im sure if you wanted you could swap zerker for knights if you wanted.
Personally I love the build because it can transfer allot of conditions from yourself to enemies making the current condi meta a pain in the kitten for those who follow it.
The goal: To create a bursty, melee Necromancer that is capable of staying in melee combat for prolonged fights.
The Reason: I as a player am not much for waving a stick at people to kill them. There is a certain amount of panic and confusion that comes with close combat that I’m more accustomed to and comfortable with that I can exploit to some degree.
Wells – they’re great and it’s often a good idea to have at least one:
One does cra cra damage, upto 2k per tick plus vulnerability
Another blinds
And one does both damage and boon stripping
I run a bursty build using a/w and d/f. Dagger 1 has one of the highest auto attack damage in game. It’s a good offhand if you’re running a condi build but according to your set-up, Im not sure if that’s what you’re after.