Guild Wars 2

Bhawb.7408:

Odeezee.7362:

it’s people like you who think that Reaper can even exist in a world with professions like Mesmer and Thief who can interrupt us at will and reset a fight if they are partially afk and we somehow able to get some damage skills off. just go and see what Helseth did to Leeto on Youtube the other day and tell me just how the kitten Reaper and our shouts will ever deter that and that’s excluding the Mesmer Chronomancer Spec. face it, we are kittened and pretending like we are good is NOT going to help us one bit.

When you manage to unlodge your head from your kitten let me know. Reaper isn’t any slower than other builds on other professions which have been viable, and Reaper actually has pretty good options to deal with mobile builds, as well as deal with CC. So long as they address some of the Shout cast times, which I have been pretty vocal I’m not optimistic about, we’ll be fine.

yeah, i am the one with their head up their kitten when you have been playing a Necro since release and STILL think our kitten will get addressed when the kittening CORE profession is still far behind other professions, get a kittening clue man.

don’t even know why i bother even reading anything from a guy who plays Necro as MM, news flash Moa > MM and it’s been that way since beta without ANY change on the horizon so why don’t you get your head out of your kitten and wise up to the fact that we are NOT in a good place, maybe if enough of us complain like Eles and Engies our profession can finally receive some long overdue positive attention!

Bhawb.7408:

Odeezee.7362:

it’s people like you who think that Reaper can even exist in a world with professions like Mesmer and Thief who can interrupt us at will and reset a fight if they are partially afk and we somehow able to get some damage skills off. just go and see what Helseth did to Leeto on Youtube the other day and tell me just how the kitten Reaper and our shouts will ever deter that and that’s excluding the Mesmer Chronomancer Spec. face it, we are kittened and pretending like we are good is NOT going to help us one bit.

When you manage to unlodge your head from your kitten let me know. Reaper isn’t any slower than other builds on other professions which have been viable, and Reaper actually has pretty good options to deal with mobile builds, as well as deal with CC. So long as they address some of the Shout cast times, which I have been pretty vocal I’m not optimistic about, we’ll be fine.

See i kept saying this but i got called things for seeing this in the reaper :/

Ragion.2831:

According to the video below the skill now also gives stability as well as might. The skill gives boons per target hit, stability and might are boons. We get 4 stacks of might per target for 20 stacks, if stab is also on the skill and is a boon, does that not mean 1 stack of stab per target for 5 stacks? 1 stack of stab per target makes sense for a stun break that is meant to be area effective.

Shouts starts at 1:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DhqjIPcgog

As i said before it is one stack of stability (for 1 second) because it is also a non instant stunbreak. Only the might stacks scale with the number of opponents.

Muchacho.2390:

Ragion.2831:

According to the video below the skill now also gives stability as well as might. The skill gives boons per target hit, stability and might are boons. We get 4 stacks of might per target for 20 stacks, if stab is also on the skill and is a boon, does that not mean 1 stack of stab per target for 5 stacks? 1 stack of stab per target makes sense for a stun break that is meant to be area effective.

Shouts starts at 1:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DhqjIPcgog

As i said before it is one stack of stability (for 1 second) because it is also a non instant stunbreak. Only the might stacks scale with the number of opponents.

tooltip is misleading then, should say gain might not gain boons.

Ragion.2831:

Muchacho.2390:

Ragion.2831:

According to the video below the skill now also gives stability as well as might. The skill gives boons per target hit, stability and might are boons. We get 4 stacks of might per target for 20 stacks, if stab is also on the skill and is a boon, does that not mean 1 stack of stab per target for 5 stacks? 1 stack of stab per target makes sense for a stun break that is meant to be area effective.

Shouts starts at 1:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DhqjIPcgog

As i said before it is one stack of stability (for 1 second) because it is also a non instant stunbreak. Only the might stacks scale with the number of opponents.

tooltip is misleading then, should say gain might not gain boons.

Well it is still not released, so dont take the tooltips too seriously^^

Skoigoth.9238:

Tim.6450:

Don’t be so negative. Tempest does not seem appeling at the moment.

Compared to what? The current DD builds? I agree, but if you already have access to a borderline broken-as-kitten build you aren´t exactly in need for improvement

Compared to elementalist core functionality , every tempest is for at least 50% core. Overloading goes against that core. Even if you don’t overload you have wasted all minors of a full trait line.

Bhawb.7408:

As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.

Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.

If you can’t see how shouts are bad for PvE, you have a problem.

I play PvP primarily (now) because Necro in PvE is absolute garbage. I do understand that shouts bring very little to PvE, but frankly Necro will never fit PvE until they change PvE. And acting like I don’t understand our position or problems in other game modes is ridiculous, especially accusing me of being a “PvP guy” when the majority of my in-game time is WvW followed by PvE.

Zenith.7301:

Bhawb.7408:

As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.

Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.

What are you talking about dude, thats what matters. In PvE as long as you have damage and possibly support (where there is plenty of) you are fine. In WvW you are in a group could be large, small or anywhere in between. Are you going to tell me you want to balance classes based on a 30 man zerg where there is an infinite number of class combinations? dude sit down and think.

Ragion.2831:

Zenith.7301:

Bhawb.7408:

As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.

Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.

What are you talking about dude, thats what matters. In PvE as long as you have damage and possibly support (where there is plenty of) you are fine. In WvW you are in a group could be large, small or anywhere in between. Are you going to tell me you want to balance classes based on a 30 man zerg where there is an infinite number of class combinations? dude sit down and think.

Except necromancers don’t support or damage either, and shouts were a missed opportunity for that needed support.

If you think it’d bad now, if nothing happens to change this and give us at least one major positive to bring to group content how bad do you think we’ll fare come the new rumored “challenging content” in HoT. Don’t kid yourselves, if nothing changes we will be ostracized one hell of a lot more than we are right now.

Zenith.7301:

Ragion.2831:

Zenith.7301:

Bhawb.7408:

As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.

Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.

What are you talking about dude, thats what matters. In PvE as long as you have damage and possibly support (where there is plenty of) you are fine. In WvW you are in a group could be large, small or anywhere in between. Are you going to tell me you want to balance classes based on a 30 man zerg where there is an infinite number of class combinations? dude sit down and think.

Except necromancers don’t support or damage either, and shouts were a missed opportunity for that needed support.

Huh? 8 stacks of might to allies isnt support? dropping AoE blindess and healing wells isnt support? teleporting downed allies to you to heal them (which is really useful in dungeons) isnt support?

I dont understand how you can say necro doesnt have damage after all the videos that have been released. Anyway that debate will end when someone gets crit with a max damage Executioner’s Scyth with air and fire procs.

Ragion.2831:

Huh? 8 stacks of might to allies isnt support? dropping AoE blindess and healing wells isnt support? teleporting downed allies to you to heal them (which is really useful in dungeons) isnt support?

I dont understand how you can say necro doesnt have damage after all the videos that have been released. Anyway that debate will end when someone gets crit with a max damage Executioner’s Scyth with air and fire procs.

Oh please do link all these videos of how bloody amazing Necros are compared to every other freaking class. Please LOL! You’re right and everybody else who plays a Necro is wrong, 1000 posts on Reddit are wrong, please, just don’t.

Ragion.2831:

Zenith.7301:

Ragion.2831:

Zenith.7301:

Bhawb.7408:

As far as I can tell we have no hard info on any of the Elementalist shouts, only that they seem decently designed. Except ours are also well designed except for Rise!, so I really don’t get the complaining.

Of course you don’t get it, you’re a pvp guy. When have you people ever seen anything beyond your pet formats.

What are you talking about dude, thats what matters. In PvE as long as you have damage and possibly support (where there is plenty of) you are fine. In WvW you are in a group could be large, small or anywhere in between. Are you going to tell me you want to balance classes based on a 30 man zerg where there is an infinite number of class combinations? dude sit down and think.

Except necromancers don’t support or damage either, and shouts were a missed opportunity for that needed support.

Huh? 8 stacks of might to allies isnt support? dropping AoE blindess and healing wells isnt support? teleporting downed allies to you to heal them (which is really useful in dungeons) isnt support?

I dont understand how you can say necro doesnt have damage after all the videos that have been released. Anyway that debate will end when someone gets crit with a max damage Executioner’s Scyth with air and fire procs.

This is like when I see guardians with staff. Yes your right that is support, but it is ineffective compared to other classes. 8 aoe might seems nice, but why take that when eles or warriors get close to 25 perma might. Why take our aoe blind on a 50 second cd, when a thief can swap to s/p and spam blinds, or an ele can sandstorm and blind on a slightly longer cd. Heals aren’t really necessary in pve, in pvp our healing is decent, and in wvw there is no point when you can blast waterfields 20 times to get to full health. Teleporting allies to you is ok if your party is bad, but if they are good they won’t be going down much if at all (In pvp its good, but pve eh).

Necros do have bad damage Thief, guard, ele, engi, and warrior definitely out dps necro (not sure about the other two classes). DPS is not the same as big hits, necros have huge cast times on everything and most skills aren’t even worth using in pve. If base necro wants to get taken in dungeon runs they either need way more support, or way more damage. In other words all of necros best utilities, weapons, and traits still need buffs to get on par with other classes (I’d start with making dagger 2 epic dps, and giving more damage modifiers, then move on to pulsing 20 second might on wells, projectile destruction, and general buffs to our utilities).

Bhawb.7408:

I play PvP primarily (now) because Necro in PvE is absolute garbage. I do understand that shouts bring very little to PvE, but frankly Necro will never fit PvE until they change PvE. And acting like I don’t understand our position or problems in other game modes is ridiculous, especially accusing me of being a “PvP guy” when the majority of my in-game time is WvW followed by PvE.

Don´t get me wrong, I kinda admire your enduring optimism (no sarcasm) in the face of Anets stubbornness/cluelessness/incompetence to properly address the problems our class suffers from since launch.

But let´s be real.

There have been SO MANY great suggestions over the years in this forum on how to improve Necro overall without breaking the class completely in a particular game-mode and the majority of those suggestions got either ignored, weren´t perceived at all, were implemented elsewhere (looking at you “Assassin´s Presence”), let alone commented on by a dev (communication pls!! can we have it?!).
So, shall I name a couple? Here are some random ones I´d personally still like to see:

• Make Unholy Fervor´s damage modifier a flat 10% vs. vulnerable foes (not just axe skills)
• Make Quickening Thirst´s second effect a 5% damage modifier while above threshold (instead of recharge reduction for dagger skills)
• Make CPC block projectiles
• Make Signets work in Shroud
• Buff siphon damage (incl. Vamp Aura) across the board
• 3 stacks of stability for 4sec on Spectral Walk
• New GM trait that breaks stun and gives 4sec of Invulnerability upon DS entry on a 60sec CD
• Give us Plague Blast on land
• Make Dhuumfire the good old Incendiary Powder copy-paste it used to be
• Buff Lich Form´s #2-#5, same for Plague Form´s #1 and #3 (reduced cast times, more condi application, whatever makes them more attractive to use once in a while)
• Make Dark Path a ground-targeted Shadowstep when PoC is traited
• Reduce cast times on Focus Skills
• Fix Minion AI (duh)
• B U F F A X E S O I T I S N O T T H E W O R S T W E A P O N E V E R
  etc.etc. the list goes on and on.

Bottom-line, don´t try to sweet talk Reaper and don´t try to make it appear to be something it clearly will not be. Until the issues of the core profession have been addressed people will keep kittening and rightly so imo. Neither Reaper nor potentially crappy elite specs of other classes will change that.

Until then, keep your expectations low and keep screaming your heads off, maybe we will be heard at last.

if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.

The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.

If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.

Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.

Ragion.2831:

if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.

The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.

If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.

Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.

just kittening stop with your unfounded garbage. STOP! you obviously have no kittening clue what you are talking about. we are only “good” in PvP if we are being attacked by condis and can TRANSFER them back, we suck for damage in PvE more so since the recent patch, yes we are worse than before damage wise, and we are only really decent in WvW zerging and lack the sustain, mobility and damage for solo roaming. and just to show you just how clueless you are watch the video below.

I feel like Reaper should have been the one to get the breakbar. I mean slow moving horror monsters just shrug off attacks but apparently being spooky is supposed to be enough for us.

Browsing through the Reaper skills and traits I don’t think I’ll like it. That’s just me and maybe I’ll change my mind but the whole reason I love conditionmancer as it stands is because all the attacks can be chained together so smoothly. I love the flow and Reaper doesn’t look like it’ll have that kind of feel, at least not in small scale which is all I care about.

Ragion.2831:

if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.

The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.

If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.

Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.

This is bearbow ranger and staff guardian talk.

Skoigoth.9238:

Don´t get me wrong, I kinda admire your enduring optimism (no sarcasm) in the face of Anets stubbornness/cluelessness/incompetence to properly address the problems our class suffers from since launch.

Its less optimism that they will fix us, and more acceptance that what we have might be the best we’ll ever get, so I’ll try to make the best of it.

Also, ANet has listened to us a lot, especially nowadays. Just because they don’t implement everything doesn’t mean they don’t listen, they don’t have the resources to do everything we ask, or even a small amount, and then the balance team just is on Mars when it comes to understanding Necro. However pretty much every good change they’ve made recently was due to direct feedback, so they do listen, and Reaper was made in response to a lot of our issues with the base profession.

Bhawb.7408:

Skoigoth.9238:

Don´t get me wrong, I kinda admire your enduring optimism (no sarcasm) in the face of Anets stubbornness/cluelessness/incompetence to properly address the problems our class suffers from since launch.

Its less optimism that they will fix us, and more acceptance that what we have might be the best we’ll ever get, so I’ll try to make the best of it.

Also, ANet has listened to us a lot, especially nowadays. Just because they don’t implement everything doesn’t mean they don’t listen, they don’t have the resources to do everything we ask, or even a small amount, and then the balance team just is on Mars when it comes to understanding Necro. However pretty much every good change they’ve made recently was due to direct feedback, so they do listen, and Reaper was made in response to a lot of our issues with the base profession.

reaper does not fix the profession if you don’t chose that trait your are still in a bad place so is just a minor buff

I never said it does. I said that Reaper itself was designed with a lot of those issues in mind, not that the rest of the profession is fixed by it. Reaper has finishers+fields like we asked for, it has mobility/anti mobility like we asked for, it scales into teamfights, it has ways to deal with CC, all issues we had with previous Necromancer design that won’t be an issue with Reaper.

I can’t go anywhere without hearing about how terrible the necromancer is. WP is talking about it, the necromancer forums have been talking about it for years now, the Revenant forums are talking about it and now Elementalist forums. I can’t just enjoy anything. I constantly have to be reminded of the forgotten step child left in the attic.

Edit: Nevermind. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place. XD ops!

Not really sure why they decided to give two professions shouts, they should try to make the elite specs more unique (however if Anet decides to give thieves a staff like rangers, then I wouldn’t mind that). Furthermore shouts make more sense for Tempest and if they were going for an unstoppable monster theme for Reaper then warrior physical skills would have made more sense.

Zenith.7301:

I feel so bad for reapers this xpac. They got screwed over big time.

Tempest gets aoe stunbreaks and superspeed, more fire and water fields for blasting and aoe heals+condition removal and immobilize, not to mention that famous aoe damage elementalists are known for.

Their shouts don’t decrease in effectiveness against single targets. They serve as combos, for damaging and utility of the group.

Not much is gonna change with necromancer this xpac at this rate.

Over-exaggeration.

Lyger.5429:

Not really sure why they decided to give two professions shouts, they should try to make the elite specs more unique (however if Anet decides to give thieves a staff like rangers, then I wouldn’t mind that). Furthermore shouts make more sense for Tempest and if they were going for an unstoppable monster theme for Reaper then warrior physical skills would have made more sense.

Haha, that’s true. Unstoppable monsters like Jason X don’t shout, they just punch through things! And appear next to you suddenly and abruptly!

nekretaal.6485:

The reaper shouts are awful. Was anybody ever excited by any of them?

Oh yeah, one of them is a stun break and might see use because the Necromancer’s competing stun breaks are garbage.

I am excited for “Rise!” as a minion master.

However, tempest shouts and reaper shouts fill very different roles despite both being shouts. Reaper shouts debuff the enemies while buffing you, and tempest shouts either buff allies, or hinder enemies, but never both.

striker.3704:

nekretaal.6485:

The reaper shouts are awful. Was anybody ever excited by any of them?

Oh yeah, one of them is a stun break and might see use because the Necromancer’s competing stun breaks are garbage.

I am excited for “Rise!” as a minion master.

However, tempest shouts and reaper shouts fill very different roles despite both being shouts. Reaper shouts debuff the enemies while buffing you, and tempest shouts either buff allies, or hinder enemies, but never both.

Rise is going to a bleed stackers dream! I seriously can’t wait for it.

I’m stunned…

Well now the only thing I have to do, is to start making world completion to my elementalist before HoT. Seems like reaper is going to be trash anyway and there’s no reason to keep playing since Anet seems to hate necro players.

That chill and slow moving reaper would have made sense, if they’ve give us some kind of blink. No Dark Path and Spectral Grasp doesn’t count because they don’t work as they should. Dark Path should atleast teleport you to max range if it doesn’t hit the target or leave some poison field to the fly route, and Spectral Grasp is just aweful slow moving piece of ****.

I had enough.

Hmmm.

Has any necro successfully downed a Warrior in rampage under stances ?

Thought so.

Muchacho.2390:

Falcon.8713:

I was waiting for you guys to start complaining, here is the first post, congrats.
1. L2P or gtfo
2. You haven’t seen or practiced kitten and already complaining -> Makes me remember 15yo teenage girls.
3. We already have a warhorn

Little late then? We complain about the reaper shouts since we saw them on stream…

I know, but I was waiting for you to whine even more over ele shouts

Reading the tempest shouts felt like a.net was sh;tting on my face for ever playing a necromancer. This time it wasn’t a vague feeling, the disgusting smell and wet spread felt real. Really, if didn’t had alts that I enjoy playing I’d be uninstalling GW2 instead of posting here.

To the guys like Falcon and Bhawb, why are you not posting videos, guides, whatever, to teach others to be awesome necroes like you? Really, if necromancers were on par to other classes given equal player skill we wouldn’t be pitied by pretty much every other class and majority of the PvP forum.

I feel thematically long wind up spells with lasting effects is what the reaper is about. I’m happy with having the cast times as long as the payoff is sufficient. At the moment, Reaper shouts aren’t justified for their cast time and cooldowns. It’s just that simple.

Bhawb.7408:

Skoigoth.9238:

Don´t get me wrong, I kinda admire your enduring optimism (no sarcasm) in the face of Anets stubbornness/cluelessness/incompetence to properly address the problems our class suffers from since launch.

Its less optimism that they will fix us, and more acceptance that what we have might be the best we’ll ever get, so I’ll try to make the best of it.

Also, ANet has listened to us a lot, especially nowadays. Just because they don’t implement everything doesn’t mean they don’t listen, they don’t have the resources to do everything we ask, or even a small amount, and then the balance team just is on Mars when it comes to understanding Necro. However pretty much every good change they’ve made recently was due to direct feedback, so they do listen, and Reaper was made in response to a lot of our issues with the base profession.

Give me a single example of when Anet listened to us please. Teamsupport? They went with pure healing/siphoning and proceed to make the Revenant the one with the best heals in the game aswell as giving eles even more, and more valuable, support. Axe? Still Trash, they didn’t even fix the animation. Condition application? Still not even 1/10th of what other classes can do. Active defenses? Nope, not a single one. Letting us start with LF at the beginning of a PVP-Match? Nada. Blast finishers ? “they don’t fit”, so nope. Minion AI/Pathing? Still in a state not even found on private servers. Ways to keep enemies from escaping us in fights? No. Response to our feedback on how terrible MoC and Plague and CC as corruptions are? Not a single word.

Sorry, but all I see is Anet ignoring blatant problems because they have 0 understanding of just how much they kittened this profession up, because not a single one of them plays it. Even the dev resposible for Necros doesn’T play Necromancer – how the hell would he even know what the kitten he is doing? They said it themselves, no matter how much they “playtest” *COUGH*plague suicide got noticed by numbers alone COUGH their stuff it is already overtaken a few minutes after launch. Yet they refuse to have a Moderator/CM for each profession forum whose job it is to skim through feedback and relay it to the devs…And don’t come with the Forumspecialist, they neither listen nor provide correct info to him/her, and change some stuff 24 hours before release without a single word.

Personally, as a casual PVE player, I look forward more towards reaper shouts than I do ele shout. Lets get some references:

Wash the Pain Away: Unless the ally heal is phenomenal, I won’t be running this. To heal my allies and cleanse conditions, I just swap over to water attunement and blast arcane brilliance. In situations where healing is desperately needed, I’ll probably have switched to water/arcane trait lines, in which case I can use multiple heal + cleanses just by swapping to water and dodging. It isn’t like this provides some novel utility that necros don’t have, either. Necros can already pull/convert/transfer conditions, and if you’re in Blood Magic you’re already doing a surprising amount of healing with well of blood + vampiric aura + mark of evasion. Heck, even SoV technically heals the party for about 2k each time it gets used.

Feel the Burn: Another fire field? Basically this is an AoE damage patch, so for now I’ll treat it like a third lava font. Now, the hard part about using this skill is justifying it over arcane wave. I’m pretty sure it’ll do more damage than arcane wave, but wave blasts, making it much more versatile. Granted, necromancers would tear off their own arm to get a fire field, even more so if it causes burning.. But for an ele, this is milktoast.

Eye of the Storm: A stun break with a minor speed boost. Now personally as a stun breaker I usually take arcane shield and mist form, and for very good reason: defense. My ele’s nickname is candlelight, because one blow and she’s out. If we assume that warriors, guardians, and mesmers happen to not have their AoE stunbreak, then even then I would be hesitant to run this, because a stun break is no good if I’m not alive to enjoy it.

Aftershock: This is just a movement debuff. Now granted, while eles don’t have too many cripples and immoblizes, they do have plenty of chill. So does the reaper. Necromancers are swimming in cripples and chills. Either way, this shout is immediately inferior to the next one.

Freeze: Basically it is a weaker version of chilled to the bone. Now as an ele, I’m doing either one of two things. I’m wielding a staff, so if I really wanted to stop an enemy I’d just use frozen ground. If I’m welding a dagger, I’m probably using Frozen Burst to blast fields, and thus am already regularly chilling enemies. Keep in mind: I only use frozen ground in the most extraneous situations, and that one comes free with the staff. Freeze probably isn’t worth the slot.

Rebound: I don’t think this is a shout, but I can’t find any practical way to really use this skill. Just spam it and hope it works well.

Now the Necro shouts:

Your Soul is Mine: I can see a use for this. With Consume Conditions fallen from grace, I’ve been using the other heal skills. Well of blood with blood magic, and signet of vampirism with the condi build. But, since I’ll probably be going into Spite/Soul Reaping/Reaper, This skill is an option. It has less damage on a single target than SoV, but a faster recharge and a decent LF gain. I’ll only swap out of it if conditions prove to be an issue.

Nothing Can Save you: This is one of the ones I’ll pass. In PVE being unblockable isn’t a big help, and I’ll already be stacking massive amounts of vulnerability without needing a boon to convert.

Rise!: This is the other “pass” option. Jagged horrors just aren’t that useful.

Suffer: With chilling darkness having an ICD, Suffer provides an adequate means to stack AoE vulnerability, while also doing some damage to boot. It isn’t as good of a condi cleanse as well of power, but it also has a shorter recharge and does damage. This skill might see use.

You are all Weaklings: Given how short the recharge is, that might starts to look rather appealing. This will be great for trash, especially in groups where you don’t have someone to stack might for you. Just pop this as they all gather, bash them all to death with the sword in the 6 (boosted) or so seconds that you have high might. Combined with the spite tree, this can sustain large amounts of might for a long time.

Chilled to the Bone: This is the one I look forward to the most. If the tooltip listed on the wiki is right, this is basically a 600 radius basilisk venom boosted fire grab. The damage is massive, the chill will be useful, the stun will be helpful, and the stability won’t be utterly useless either. Granted, with its long cast time it is one of those “use this at the start of a fight” elites, and this will make it hard to strategically use stability, but it will guarantee no disables upon cleanup.

So really, ele’s aren’t in a better position with their shouts than necromancers are:: a lot of redundant and repeated utility.

@Blood Red Arachnid

“Rise!” is the one shout I’m looking forward to, for a Death Nova build. Each time one of your minions dies you get a pretty decent poison field that pulses for damage. Getting 5 jagged horrors with Death Nova as often as this skill will be up is going to be amazing for AoE.

Charblaze.6958:

To the guys like Falcon and Bhawb, why are you not posting videos, guides, whatever, to teach others to be awesome necroes like you? Really, if necromancers were on par to other classes given equal player skill we wouldn’t be pitied by pretty much every other class and majority of the PvP forum.

“I play PvP primarily (now) because Necro in PvE is absolute garbage.” -Bhawb, circa Earlier in This Thread ’15

That looks to me like he doesn’t believe Necro is on par.

The angst in this thread is real.

We’ve already seen cast times go down from screenshots of the last WvW beta. Clearly the devs are still iterating on these things. Reaper was admittedly one of the first elite specs they did (citation: Reaper PoI). They may have learned things as they created the others. Judging by the Revenant beta(s), they might learn things from the Elite Spec betas when those come out.

I completely realize that their communication to past balance issues hasn’t been sufficient. I completely realize that Necro has been bad in (hardcore? speedrun?) pve for a long time, with no explanation. I also completely understand that incessantly complaining about something doesn’t tend to make me feel better. And so many responses to anything being vitriolic doesn’t help our community’s outlook or recognition.

If Necro is no longer fun to play to me in this casual game, I can play a different profession or another game altogether. If anyone is this grumpy about the profession that they turn into another Gryph, I suggest you step back for a bit and reassess your reactions, emotions, their causes, and your options to be a happier player/person.

Odeezee.7362:

Ragion.2831:

if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.

The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.

If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.

Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.

just kittening stop with your unfounded garbage. STOP! you obviously have no kittening clue what you are talking about. we are only “good” in PvP if we are being attacked by condis and can TRANSFER them back, we suck for damage in PvE more so since the recent patch, yes we are worse than before damage wise, and we are only really decent in WvW zerging and lack the sustain, mobility and damage for solo roaming. and just to show you just how clueless you are watch the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8j19ELCuos

Thanks for the vid.
made for some good lulz

I always felt that Reaper would’ve been better with stances.

Vampiric Horror: Stance. While this stance is active, you siphon life with attacks equal to 20% of the single greatest packet of damage taken during the stance (Max: 600). Lasts 8 seconds.

That said, there’s still a potential to make shouts epic if they just get rid of the need for them to scale.

“Suffer!”: Deal (Medium) damage to nearby foes for each 10% of life they are missing (each 10% is a separate damage packet) and chill them for 6 seconds. 30 second cooldown, instant cast.

“Nothing Can Save You!”: Damage (Medium) nearby foes and convert up to 3 boons on them into 5 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds each. 30 second cooldown, instant cast.

“You are all Weaklings!”: Damage (Medium) nearby foes and apply weakness to them for 8 seconds. Transfer 1 condition from yourself to each struck foe. 40 second cooldown, instant cast, stunbreak.

“Chilled to the Bone!”: Blast Finisher. Damage (High) nearby foes and encase them in ice (stun) for 2 seconds. 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown.

I actually think “Rise!” and “Your Soul is Mine!” are awesome as they are, they just seriously needs to be instant cast. This whole cast time thing on shouts is really crippling their viability, and only really the elite deserves that treatment based on its effect.

Odeezee.7362:

Ragion.2831:

if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.

The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.

If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.

Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.

just kittening stop with your unfounded garbage. STOP! you obviously have no kittening clue what you are talking about. we are only “good” in PvP if we are being attacked by condis and can TRANSFER them back, we suck for damage in PvE more so since the recent patch, yes we are worse than before damage wise, and we are only really decent in WvW zerging and lack the sustain, mobility and damage for solo roaming. and just to show you just how clueless you are watch the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8j19ELCuos

You’re saying to much ‘we’ → it’s all about YOU that sucks if you’re not able to perform without condi pressure onto you

Falcon.8713:

I was waiting for you guys to start complaining, here is the first post, congrats.
1. L2P or gtfo
2. You haven’t seen or practiced kitten and already complaining -> Makes me remember 15yo teenage girls.
3. We already have a warhorn

^ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Falcon.8713:

Odeezee.7362:

Ragion.2831:

if you put a skillful [insert class] against a skillful necro, the other class would lose. Necro only falls short when there are more than 2 people or is taking ranged damage and cant gap close.

The whole kill them them before they kill you in dungeons, ive seen fail quite a few times so I wouldn’t say heal is irreleivant.

If thief is blind spamming i dont see how he can be bursting at the same time with the amount of initiative BP and Shadowshot costs.

Anet has mentioned Necros support is mostly through conditions and heals instead of boon application, considering necros can also rip boons and apply a lot of conditions, which ever is better when competing with guardians is up for debate.

just kittening stop with your unfounded garbage. STOP! you obviously have no kittening clue what you are talking about. we are only “good” in PvP if we are being attacked by condis and can TRANSFER them back, we suck for damage in PvE more so since the recent patch, yes we are worse than before damage wise, and we are only really decent in WvW zerging and lack the sustain, mobility and damage for solo roaming. and just to show you just how clueless you are watch the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8j19ELCuos

You’re saying to much ‘we’ -> it’s all about YOU that sucks if you’re not able to perform without condi pressure onto you

what? dude i get English may not be your primary language but it would not hurt to actually read and comprehend what i wrote before replying. who said that Necros cannot perform well under condi pressure? actually never-mind please keep thinking the way that you do, coz nothing i can say here will get rid of whatever it is you are suffering from.

Shiki.7148:

Bhawb.7408:

Skoigoth.9238:

Don´t get me wrong, I kinda admire your enduring optimism (no sarcasm) in the face of Anets stubbornness/cluelessness/incompetence to properly address the problems our class suffers from since launch.

Its less optimism that they will fix us, and more acceptance that what we have might be the best we’ll ever get, so I’ll try to make the best of it.

Also, ANet has listened to us a lot, especially nowadays. Just because they don’t implement everything doesn’t mean they don’t listen, they don’t have the resources to do everything we ask, or even a small amount, and then the balance team just is on Mars when it comes to understanding Necro. However pretty much every good change they’ve made recently was due to direct feedback, so they do listen, and Reaper was made in response to a lot of our issues with the base profession.

Give me a single example of when Anet listened to us please. Teamsupport? They went with pure healing/siphoning and proceed to make the Revenant the one with the best heals in the game aswell as giving eles even more, and more valuable, support. Axe? Still Trash, they didn’t even fix the animation. Condition application? Still not even 1/10th of what other classes can do. Active defenses? Nope, not a single one. Letting us start with LF at the beginning of a PVP-Match? Nada. Blast finishers ? “they don’t fit”, so nope. Minion AI/Pathing? Still in a state not even found on private servers. Ways to keep enemies from escaping us in fights? No. Response to our feedback on how terrible MoC and Plague and CC as corruptions are? Not a single word.

Sorry, but all I see is Anet ignoring blatant problems because they have 0 understanding of just how much they kittened this profession up, because not a single one of them plays it. Even the dev resposible for Necros doesn’T play Necromancer – how the hell would he even know what the kitten he is doing? They said it themselves, no matter how much they “playtest” *COUGH*plague suicide got noticed by numbers alone COUGH their stuff it is already overtaken a few minutes after launch. Yet they refuse to have a Moderator/CM for each profession forum whose job it is to skim through feedback and relay it to the devs…And don’t come with the Forumspecialist, they neither listen nor provide correct info to him/her, and change some stuff 24 hours before release without a single word.

I also find it ironic how you’re jealous that the ele’s are getting more support when the Ele forums are upset and feel like they already have enough support.

I don’t really have a point here, just pointing out how different communities have different attitudes that are perplexing.

nearlight.3064:

Shiki.7148:

Bhawb.7408:

Skoigoth.9238:

Don´t get me wrong, I kinda admire your enduring optimism (no sarcasm) in the face of Anets stubbornness/cluelessness/incompetence to properly address the problems our class suffers from since launch.

Its less optimism that they will fix us, and more acceptance that what we have might be the best we’ll ever get, so I’ll try to make the best of it.

Also, ANet has listened to us a lot, especially nowadays. Just because they don’t implement everything doesn’t mean they don’t listen, they don’t have the resources to do everything we ask, or even a small amount, and then the balance team just is on Mars when it comes to understanding Necro. However pretty much every good change they’ve made recently was due to direct feedback, so they do listen, and Reaper was made in response to a lot of our issues with the base profession.

Give me a single example of when Anet listened to us please. Teamsupport? They went with pure healing/siphoning and proceed to make the Revenant the one with the best heals in the game aswell as giving eles even more, and more valuable, support. Axe? Still Trash, they didn’t even fix the animation. Condition application? Still not even 1/10th of what other classes can do. Active defenses? Nope, not a single one. Letting us start with LF at the beginning of a PVP-Match? Nada. Blast finishers ? “they don’t fit”, so nope. Minion AI/Pathing? Still in a state not even found on private servers. Ways to keep enemies from escaping us in fights? No. Response to our feedback on how terrible MoC and Plague and CC as corruptions are? Not a single word.

Sorry, but all I see is Anet ignoring blatant problems because they have 0 understanding of just how much they kittened this profession up, because not a single one of them plays it. Even the dev resposible for Necros doesn’T play Necromancer – how the hell would he even know what the kitten he is doing? They said it themselves, no matter how much they “playtest” *COUGH*plague suicide got noticed by numbers alone COUGH their stuff it is already overtaken a few minutes after launch. Yet they refuse to have a Moderator/CM for each profession forum whose job it is to skim through feedback and relay it to the devs…And don’t come with the Forumspecialist, they neither listen nor provide correct info to him/her, and change some stuff 24 hours before release without a single word.

I also find it ironic how you’re jealous that the ele’s are getting more support when the Ele forums are upset and feel like they already have enough support.

I don’t really have a point here, just pointing out how different communities have different attitudes that are perplexing.

You know the saying the grass is always greener on the other side?

nearlight.3064:

I also find it ironic how you’re jealous that the ele’s are getting more support when the Ele forums are upset and feel like they already have enough support.

I don’t really have a point here, just pointing out how different communities have different attitudes that are perplexing.

isnt that pretty much the same attitude? the opinion that elementalists dont need more support/boonspam? that other classes could need it more?

You should post your thoughts where ANet might stumble upon, like PvP or Revenant sub forums. (Just trying to help these suggestions not go to waste).

I think rise shout should be sacked and instead be able to summon 1-2 flesh reaver

Rising Dusk.2408:

I always felt that Reaper would’ve been better with stances.

I actually think “Rise!” and “Your Soul is Mine!” are awesome as they are, they just seriously needs to be instant cast. This whole cast time thing on shouts is really crippling their viability, and only really the elite deserves that treatment based on its effect.

Stances would be cool, something I’d like to see in the future for sure.

Rise! is honestly pretty bad as is from a design standpoint. Forces MM builds to do things MM builds otherwise hate to do (fight multiple targets), and in everything except some cheese condi builds using DN it is just a worse version of Bone Minions.

I do think shouts should be useful outside of big fights though. Which is why Nothing Can Save You is probably the best designed shout, as it is strong 1v1 and then in teamfights scales well without being reliant on multiple enemies.

Charblaze.6958:

To the guys like Falcon and Bhawb, why are you not posting videos, guides, whatever, to teach others to be awesome necroes like you? Really, if necromancers were on par to other classes given equal player skill we wouldn’t be pitied by pretty much every other class and majority of the PvP forum.

Are my 50+ episodes of But of Corpse not good enough for you? How about my 7,000 forum posts? I’ve contributed my fair share to the Necromancer community thanks.

Also I talk pretty much constantly about how Necromancer is sub par in literally everything. I don’t even like how we are in zerging for WvW, and I’ve been vocal that the only reason we are good there is because we have ranged AoE direct damage, a niche that someone else could easily steal from us.

Shiki.7148:

Give me a single example of when Anet listened to us please. Teamsupport?

Foot in the Grave stun breaking, Vampiric Aura, those are two more recent ones and I’m honestly too lazy to list them all but a TON of changes have been made due to forum suggestions, in fact most of the good changes are direct copypasta’d ideas of ours.

With the Ele and Mesmer changes, they very likely are stealing it from us.

nearlight.3064:

I also find it ironic how you’re jealous that the ele’s are getting more support when the Ele forums are upset and feel like they already have enough support.

I don’t really have a point here, just pointing out how different communities have different attitudes that are perplexing.

…That is EXACTLY my point. They get more support, which they didn’t need, while we don’t get support which we would have needed. It’s completely backwards. Not to mention they get even more fields combofields on WH. Or that Ele currently is top tier in all modes and has been for a long time. Half of Elite Specs have had an awesome theme with questionable execution currently, giving “more of the same” instead of actually changing things up. Guardians get what they needed : a very good 1200 range weapon, straight upgrades to their class mechanic, and traps that might be pretty useful. Mesmer got a freaking strong new F5, and wells which gives them a chance to be wanted for more than portals in dungeons as they are damage, cc and support all in one. Necro…gets to be a close range, slow as kitten high damage thing, without getting any active defenses to actually survive that type of playstyle in a world where shatter mesmers dominate and chill ate 3 nerfs in a row before it is even out, and eles get more support and fields on top of their already good enough support and fields (meaning it is relatively useless), and a class mechanic change that has a major drawback and is easily interruptable (except Earth maybe).

It’s currently 50/50 on the Elite Specs (only if they exactly stac as they are of course…there have been some changes to the Reaper shouts apparently, but it still isn’t enough. The CDs and casttimes are (for the most part) still too long, and “get more the more enemies you hit” is still terrible – it should be “3 base + up to 2 more if you hit more than 3 enemies”.)