The Next Straw Will Break This Camel's Back
I think it was announced that this months update will focus on bug fixes and next month there will be balancing. Note that the other profession-specific updates weren’t balance related either. So no lying. I hate it when someone is wrongly accused of lying.
My advice: just stop playing for a little bit until the next update. If in a couple of weeks you miss the game, get back to it. If you don’t, move on.
No game should ever make you angry.
Half-Digested Mass Effect [eww]
Gunnar’s Hold
Gunnar’s Hold
I haven’t played in a good two months, been playing GW1 to see how why people say it’s so radically different. (I love it btw.) But sometimes a guy just wants to run around naked with nothing but a leaf over his leaf while he can jump without typing /jump.
It’s just upsetting to say the least >.<
- Lick Wounds: Revive rate has been increased.
Mmmmmhmmmmmmmm
Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.
5 months later and I still laugh at that Necromancer balance philosophy.
.
.
.
then I cry, because someone with actual power over balance believes that.
Attrition – A pretty name for taking longer than anyone else to kill something.
And you can still do all those things, and necromancer is still an awesome profession. I totally get where your coming from, and I think necromancer needs some love, but so do other professions and the general balance.
Did you know the Guardian has four traits that just give 5% extra damage to one of their weapons? What’s that about? They have other awesome traits, sure, but still…
The truth is that there is no simple fix to the “necromancer problem”. It’s not a matter of upping some damage and reducing some casting times. Necromancers need a way to fit into a party structure, and right now the puzzle-piece that is the Necromancer has a weird shape.
Imagine being the developer in charge of all this. It’s a brain-buster.
Half-Digested Mass Effect [eww]
Gunnar’s Hold
Gunnar’s Hold
They specifically state, multiple times, this isn’t going to be a balance patch but a bug fix patch; people complain about them not touching balance. There’s a nice statement of what the forums are.
They specifically state, multiple times, this isn’t going to be a balance patch but a 9 month old bug fix patch; people complain about them not touching balance. There’s a nice statement of where the game is.
fixed it up a lil
They specifically state, multiple times, this isn’t going to be a balance patch but a bug fix patch; people complain about them not touching balance. There’s a nice statement of what the forums are.
They didn’t actually fix any of the important bugs though. They also managed to break a rather important trait we have. We may not even see a fix for it for another month or two based on their current track record. I think people have a legitimate reason to be mad this time.
Stuff goes here.
They specifically state, multiple times, this isn’t going to be a balance patch but a bug fix patch…
yeah and they did not fix spiteful talisman(pve), minions dumb AI, hp on downed (pve) and a long etc.
I totally agree they barely touched our bugs, and ended up introducing a new one that is worse than any they fixed. So if you are going to complain, base your complaints off of that, a totally legitimate reason, and not the fact that this isn’t a balance patch, which it was never going to be.
Fix the hole in the tires before you give it shiny new rims.
Well said!
I totally agree they barely touched our bugs, and ended up introducing a new one that is worse than any they fixed. So if you are going to complain, base your complaints off of that, a totally legitimate reason, and not the fact that this isn’t a balance patch, which it was never going to be.
Bhawb you are making too much sense. However, rage leads to irrational thinking. Necro forum is raging because we have been neglected. The first bug they fixed was mark of evasion. Mark of evasion used to create a blast finisher. This made playing necro fun. Dodging into our well of blood giving our minions some retal and regen was rewarding. They fixed that bug so fast because it was beneficial to us. There were no people crying necro dodge blast finisher is OP. They just fixed that first and didn’t fix our staff mark sizes for ages (or anything useful for us). They finally fixed staff in time to nerf epidemic. Then they just broke staff again. And don’t get me started on minons, death shroud weapon swap being stolen from us, or many other things. It makes me want to smash my computer with a brick lol.
Make no mistake DS weapon swap was taken from us because of coding issues. After they couldn’t fix it they just labeled it as a balance fix.
Torqky-80 Necro-Blackgate [HB]
[spoiler]
Well said!
I totally agree they barely touched our bugs, and ended up introducing a new one that is worse than any they fixed. So if you are going to complain, base your complaints off of that, a totally legitimate reason, and not the fact that this isn’t a balance patch, which it was never going to be.
Bhawb you are making too much sense. However, rage leads to irrational thinking. Necro forum is raging because we have been neglected. The first bug they fixed was mark of evasion. Mark of evasion used to create a blast finisher. This made playing necro fun. Dodging into our well of blood giving our minions some retal and regen was rewarding. They fixed that bug so fast because it was beneficial to us. There were no people crying necro dodge blast finisher is OP. They just fixed that first and didn’t fix our staff mark sizes for ages (or anything useful for us). They finally fixed staff in time to nerf epidemic. Then they just broke staff again. And don’t get me started on minons, death shroud weapon swap being stolen from us, or many other things. It makes me want to smash my computer with a brick lol.
Make no mistake DS weapon swap was taken from us because of coding issues. After they couldn’t fix it they just labeled it as a balance fix.[/spoiler]
I don’t think they have a nefarious plan in place to persistently, purposely, and precisely prohibit one professions players enjoyment of the game. If you do, you might have a problem other than with the developers at ANet. All those things you listed are bug fixes or bugs.
Think about all the things you said: mark of blood is a blast finisher? you can weapon switch when wearing no weapons at all? something about epidemic… (i don’t know what that’s about) They make no sense.
Even if some bug accidentally works out well for a certain profession or setup, if it’s unintentional it should be removed on principle. Then, after the bugs are gone, you can add the intentional stuff to make a profession more viable if it’s weak.
And one more thing; I promise it’s the last. Nothing is ever “taken from us” or “stolen from us”. We might have bought the game, but we’re playing it by their rules. As it should be.
Half-Digested Mass Effect [eww]
Gunnar’s Hold
Gunnar’s Hold
I understand the feeling, but I don’t believe its a concerted effort from “the man” to keep us down. I much rather that they systematically nerf OP things, or things that aren’t working properly and get rid of all of them first because after that they can see where our class actually is, in its entirety, and then work on buffing us.
I know this isn’t shared by many, but I would much prefer to have a while where my class isn’t as competitive so that in the long run we get to the best balance state; and I would prefer this happens now when being competitive means absolutely nothing, frankly, and not in the future when there might actually be something meaningful on the line.
@Bhawb
I do find Anet to progress slowly in that direction tho. I played a lot of other MMO and MOBA, and never did I experience such a slows big fixes and balance patch.
I know they don’t want to Whack a mole balance, but I’M not sure they are doing any better.
Elem DD : They became OP because of the meta and the daphenix build being popular. How long did they tried to balance it? Each 1-2 month they would slightly nerf them, not affecting them much. It took what? 5 month to balance Elem DD? And some people might arg they are still unbalanced.
Same with warrior, they are trying to bring them back in the meta, they do little change (banner buff?) and wait 2 month to see if the meta change.
I’m personally not a fan of that kind of strategy. When you have a bug or a useless utility, you know you are in for a long time before it get resolved.
Rotthen (Necro) / Zhyx (Engineer) /Inglorious Beasterd (Ranger)
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]
Server : Anvil Rock (Since Release!) [SOLO]
I understand the feeling, but I don’t believe its a concerted effort from “the man” to keep us down. I much rather that they systematically nerf OP things, or things that aren’t working properly and get rid of all of them first because after that they can see where our class actually is, in its entirety, and then work on buffing us.
I know this isn’t shared by many, but I would much prefer to have a while where my class isn’t as competitive so that in the long run we get to the best balance state; and I would prefer this happens now when being competitive means absolutely nothing, frankly, and not in the future when there might actually be something meaningful on the line.
Somewhat proper balance in an MMO with a PVE component is most likely never going to be achieved. On top of having a PVE component, GW2 has this trait system with a bazillion possible combinations which makes it even more difficult. I’ve seen incompetent stuff happen in other games that pushed me away from them but this 9 months long tool tip fixing is probably the peak amongst everything I encountered.
@Bhawb
I do find Anet to progress slowly in that direction tho. I played a lot of other MMO and MOBA, and never did I experience such a slows big fixes and balance patch.
I know they don’t want to Whack a mole balance, but I’M not sure they are doing any better.
Elem DD : They became OP because of the meta and the daphenix build being popular. How long did they tried to balance it? Each 1-2 month they would slightly nerf them, not affecting them much. It took what? 5 month to balance Elem DD? And some people might arg they are still unbalanced.
Same with warrior, they are trying to bring them back in the meta, they do little change (banner buff?) and wait 2 month to see if the meta change.
I’m personally not a fan of that kind of strategy. When you have a bug or a useless utility, you know you are in for a long time before it get resolved.
LoL takes this exact same methodology, actually, and it works very well for them. The “whack a mole” approach that defines fast cycles of FotM builds→crappy meta→nerfwars→search for new FotM→repeat plagued GW1 and was one of the biggest flaws to PvP in that game. It is also responsible for the flak against WoW and a huge problem with the game (that wasn’t made larger only due to them having no real competition). Fast cycles of huge nerfs and wide swings in power are terrible for players, and developers. It doesn’t create a really enjoyable playing experience.
Yes, its going to take a while for ANet to get at least close to the “perfect” balance ideal they want, where there are many builds available to every class that are all competitive, but they are slowly getting there; balance is much better now than it has been (minus that little oopsie with Engi glue bomb).
@Bhawb
I know they don’t want to Whack a mole balance, but I’M not sure they are doing any better.
This, I think, is worth dwelling on for a moment. While it’s true that GW1 balance shifts were occasionally over the top, I agree that in GW2 they are (mostly) underwhelming. I think that in their attempt to avoid what they perceive as whack-a-mole balancing, A.Net is coming dangerously close to falling into the opposite ditch – that is, overly stagnant gameplay where change never occurs at the desired speed. It’s one thing to have an overall philosophy for balancing – it’s quite another when one chooses to stick to that philosophy in the face of a clear need for the opposite. Ideology should not be allowed to supersede pragmatic necessity. There are times for slow and steady measures, and there are times for leaps and bounds (which is not to say that I necessarily believe the necromancer is such a case, I’m simply making a general statement here). Each case deserves an individual assessment, after which you act accordingly.
On a related note, I also think it is entirely fair to criticize this patch for containing nothing but bug fixes. It’s all a matter of priorities. The resources put into fixing (not very important) bugs could easily have been invested in addressing more pressing concerns instead. The fact that A.Net announces in advance that the patch will contain only bug fixes does not necessarily make that decision a good one.
5 months later and I still laugh at that Necromancer balance philosophy.
.
.
.
then I cry, because someone with actual power over balance believes that.
“necromancer, the masters of life and death”
^more deaths caused by thieves and warriors in world vs world than almost every other profession.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
Think about all the things you said: mark of blood is a blast finisher? you can weapon switch when wearing no weapons at all? something about epidemic… (i don’t know what that’s about) They make no sense.
Even if some bug accidentally works out well for a certain profession or setup, if it’s unintentional it should be removed on principle. Then, after the bugs are gone, you can add the intentional stuff to make a profession more viable if it’s weak.
And one more thing; I promise it’s the last. Nothing is ever “taken from us” or “stolen from us”. We might have bought the game, but we’re playing it by their rules. As it should be.
I agree. Just pointing out how slow they fix bugs.
Take a look at these: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/No-Wep-Swap-In-DS-now-Are-you-serious
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Stealth-nerf-oh-yeah/first#post1522960
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DS-Death-Shroud-bug/first#post2060234
If it was intended, why was it a stealth nerf not mentioned in patch notes:
Hint: It was a bug
If you remember, Deathshroud went through alot of bugs were it was delaying skill use when entering, not allowing others to rally (people couldn’t rally of necros and warrior using vengeance), and many other issues. They decided to take the easy road and just turn it into a hard transformation to make it easier for coding and weapon swap was taken from us. There are dev posts telling us weapon swap in DS was in fact intended(Take a look at Jon Peters’ infamous L2DS post telling us about swapping in DS and managing cds etc) . Click through some of these posts and you shall see…. I would also bet the 1/3 life in downed state bug is also related to the coding of DS seeing as this came about when they changed the UI of deathshroud away from the downed state 1-4 mechanic.
Torqky-80 Necro-Blackgate [HB]
(edited by Torqky.3682)
What it simply comes down to is how long are people at the bottom of the meta going to wait before they quit or reroll? Wack-a-mole sucks sure, when you are doing it all the time and the meta is shifting every month. But for some classes sitting at the bottom of the meta for 9 months straight sucks a lot more. Especially now that there are good tourneys and streams trying to break out balance is going to make or break weather this game gains traction as something to watch or falls off the grid. I personally would be embarrassed as a dev attending these evens and seeing that barely half of the classes included in the game are represented due to severe balance issues.
What it simply comes down to is how long are people at the bottom of the meta going to wait before they quit or reroll? Wack-a-mole sucks sure, when you are doing it all the time and the meta is shifting every month. But for some classes sitting at the bottom of the meta for 9 months straight sucks a lot more. Especially now that there are good tourneys and streams trying to break out balance is going to make or break weather this game gains traction as something to watch or falls off the grid. I personally would be embarrassed as a dev attending these evens and seeing that barely half of the classes included in the game are represented due to severe balance issues.
As a Necro that might consider watching a tourney to try and learn something to make me better at my class, even though I don’t do highly competitive sPVP, definitely no incentive for me if my class is never featured by the best players.
Waiting on the meta to shift, which it may never do to an acceptable level, due to inherent weaknesses in a class, is way too lazy and time taking strategy by Anet. They better wake up.
The devs say they don’t want play whack-a-mole with knee-jerk balancing… but we’ve barely even seen a twitch. While I can certainly sympathize with people who dislike their class changing I’ve found that in MMOs past I look forward to patch day as it gives players new options. What once worked doesn’t any more. What was previously terrible now has a place. It shakes things up and makes the game much more interesting.
What’s really sad about it all is that even in beta they really didn’t change the core skills around much. The Necromancer skills are almost exactly as they were in the earliest leaked videos we ever saw of the class. Are we really to believe that in this whole time since launch that maybe a particular weapon skill just doesn’t belong and needs completely reworked? The original design cannot be that good.
Anet is either being cautious beyond reason, blind to the status of their own game, or saving the real fixes they are acutely aware of for expansions so they can rake in the cash…
Change the game. Shake it up. Make skills stronger and more interesting. Not just for Necromancer, but for the whole game. Honestly its already getting a little stale.
My main is necro. I love her.
When people started warrior group in cof, I bashed them, thought every class should be able to do the same thing in the right hands.
Until……until I went up in fotm and realised the importance of reflect…..
Until I went to arah and realised 2k+ hp is nothing in front of lupi, also the lack of vigor, invul.
Until I started a warrior alt and saw my highest dps from necro’s bleed stack can be doubled with just auto #1.
Until I see other classes help the group run pass messy stuffs with stealth/portal/party wide swiftness.
I realized I use her fewer and fewer. It’s sad……I like the DS dark aura effect, I like the chains of tiny numbers. But I know other classes can help my group more.