Guild Wars 2

Kotte.2460:

i like axe. axe is life axe is love

This. All 3 betas I used GS+A/F. A/F gave me a ranged burst and was usually enough to fill up enough LF as well as using spinal shivers/reaper’s touch as an opener to spread chill and get some vuln stacks going. Ax post buff makes that mix nicer, since I can start a bit farther away.

Skoigoth.9238:

Or, Grenth forbid,

LOL

axe is life axe is love

Has anyone considered running GS, Dagger+WH, and traited Reaper Shroud together?

Because that sounds like it solves most of the problems in this thread.

Honestly, in a raiding situation, anything under 5% difference is going to be a rounding error, especially if it’s a playstyle you don’t enjoy. That actually creates a larger gap than people realize. Say if Dagger is 5% better then GS at single target, but a player doesn’t like dagger, then that player will not have an incentive to use Dagger to its fullest potential and will be more likely to mess something up. Thus the gap between the two either becomes small, or GS pulls ahead for that player.

Something else people should consider is the difference between theorycrafting and what’s done in practice. In theory, one thing could be slightly higher in DPS, but in practice the situation may be reverse. Theorycrafting always assumes things from the optimal situation: fury, 25 might, 25 vuln, plenty of conditions, full health, and the Patchwerk style of a boss not moving or turning unless needed to by a tank. In practice, that’s not done as often as one thinks.

But if it’s really a 1% difference, then that’s actually excellent. Dagger gives you more flexibility with an offhand choice, but Greatsword is more coherent and gives you a stronger cleave.

theoretical vacume dps rotation,

starting with 0 life force.

Focus 4/ warhorn 5
dagger auto till shroud fills.
if off hands skill are available use before shrouding
pop shroud.
rs3
rs5
rs4 (inside of 5 for chill stacking)
rs1 till shroud is 50 percent (asuming the traited damage buff for life force is still in effect)
leave shroud
focus 4/warhorn 5
dagger auto,
(repeat as needed till target is 50 percent health.)
swap GS,
gs 3 if need lf gen for damage buff,
gs 2 till dead.

….
maybe?

jus go axe. problem solved duh. axe is life ace is love

I’ll probably go Greatsword/Staff. I’m not playing a Reaper to use measly little daggers.

But if it’s really a 1% difference, then that’s actually excellent. Dagger gives you more flexibility with an offhand choice, but Greatsword is more coherent and gives you a stronger cleave.

Thats ONLY with the auto attacks. It doesnt consider any or skills. The difference should be larger in reality in the favour of GS/RS rotation pre 50%. Daggers gives more flexibility because its not as “pure damage” as the GS. Though damage shouldnt be the only metric to success.

Theorycrafting always assumes things from the optimal situation: fury, 25 might, 25 vuln, plenty of conditions, full health, and the Patchwerk style of a boss not moving or turning unless needed to by a tank. In practice, that’s not done as often as one thinks.

The only one that really matters is the encounter and your dps uptime on the creature with the weapon. Everything else doesnt matter when deciding, like vuln, might etc etc , because they are all multipliers. If you do more damage with one without multipliers you will still do more damage with it after them.

Ropechef.6192:

theoretical vacume dps rotation,

starting with 0 life force.

Focus 4/ warhorn 5
dagger auto till shroud fills.
if off hands skill are available use before shrouding
pop shroud.
rs3
rs5
rs4 (inside of 5 for chill stacking)
rs1 till shroud is 50 percent (asuming the traited damage buff for life force is still in effect)
leave shroud
focus 4/warhorn 5
dagger auto,
(repeat as needed till target is 50 percent health.)
swap GS,
gs 3 if need lf gen for damage buff,
gs 2 till dead.

….
maybe?

Forgot wells mate. Gravedigger and nightfall should also be included in the rotation as well even above 50%. Rotation should basically be throwing out cds, then when you run of it and weapon swap is on cd, reaper shroud for 10 seconds, hop out, weapon swap use cd again, auto until reaper shroud is up then hop in and auto until cds are up again.

What people fail to take into account is that while dagger may very well be used in high level gameplay, and might foreshadow other weapons for raids, this will happen to every class. I very much doubt that build diversity is going to be a thing for raids, certain classes will be shoehorned into certain roles.

However, greatsword(if not used as the choice weapon of raids) may very well find itself in a role that many people overlook and scoff at; casual play. Believe it or not this is actually a role that needs to be filled for players that are not looking for raids and rather prefer to putz around the world and do the occasional dungeon. Axe has already founds it’s role there, even though the meta may shift shortly.
It may not be the answer that my fellow reapers are looking for, but greatsword may just find it’s niche as something for casual play, since daggers may always be the superior pve choice.

sadly what ppl fail to realize is this game is about fun. why argue about x vs x? go have fun with w.e weapon you like. this game isnt all about dps, the community made it about that with try hards and “speed runs”. smh
so /flameon, since i know its coming.

Mobius.7041:

Ilharn.6813:

Mobius.7041:

Ilharn.6813:

Dhogoth.1856:

Mobius.7041:

I’m not saying you should only use Greatsword ever in very situation, but the other weapons should not eclipse Greatsword. Do you want a speed increase? Switch to Warhorn. Do you need to remove a boon? Switch to Focus. Do you need an Immobalize and some hp back? Switch to Dagger. Those are few examples, but Greatsword should be the main weapon for Reaper, not Dagger.

I have to agree with this.

Unfortunately I had the same impression playing in the BWEs, the situation where the GS was good is only to spam gravedigger under 50% HP, a DPS buff would be great.

I played this way: pullt mobs by GS5, then GS3 for LF, might and invul, GS4, RS5, RS4, AA
After using LF the most mobs will be under 50%, otherwise repeat

It doesn’t really mean anything, especially with raids coming, where you have to dps a single target for 6/7 minutes straight if not more.

You can use RS in raids too… especially with overflooting boons from everywhere LF will be incredible fast full

Sure, but nobody didn’t say you shouldn’t use RS and this has anything to do with the discussion Dagger vs Greatsword debate.

nobody didn’t say you shouldn’t = everybody did say you shouldn’t

this has anything to do = it has something to do with

Was this the intended message ?

Kotte.2460:

sadly what ppl fail to realize is this game is about fun. why argue about x vs x? go have fun with w.e weapon you like. this game isnt all about dps, the community made it about that with try hards and “speed runs”. smh
so /flameon, since i know its coming.

Absolutely right you are. It is about having fun in whichever way works for you. Speedruns/metas be kitten ed

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t see the problem.

Dagger is better at 50%+ against two targets and allow you to us focus or warhorn for their respective dps skill.

GS is better against 3 targets at all time and it’s better against whatever numbers of enemies at less than 50%.

Seem that both have strength and weakness and the best way to play the reaper will be to use both weapons correctly. Sound better than just using GS or just Dagger.

Oh and Gravedigger is still powerful at 50%. I’m not sure but I think that GS will still be part of the optimal rotation at 50%. But I might be wrong there.

You only need 1 enemy sub 50% for GD to strike EVERY enemy hit for increased dmg. So 1 enemy at 100% hp and other sub 50% and GD already beats Dagger.

GS is more versatile. If anything just use both guys :P

Killyox.3950:

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t see the problem.

Dagger is better at 50%+ against two targets and allow you to us focus or warhorn for their respective dps skill.

GS is better against 3 targets at all time and it’s better against whatever numbers of enemies at less than 50%.

Seem that both have strength and weakness and the best way to play the reaper will be to use both weapons correctly. Sound better than just using GS or just Dagger.

Oh and Gravedigger is still powerful at 50%. I’m not sure but I think that GS will still be part of the optimal rotation at 50%. But I might be wrong there.

You only need 1 enemy sub 50% for GD to strike EVERY enemy hit for increased dmg. So 1 enemy at 100% hp and other sub 50% and GD already beats Dagger.

GS is more versatile. If anything just use both guys :P

There is one problem, just slight one. No range!

Dagger is best, GS is most fun & rewarding and no amount of range can save the Axe (and btw 12k crit on GC is not true.. its a channeled ability that a guy with no legs can Dodge)

mazut.4296:

Killyox.3950:

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t see the problem.

Dagger is better at 50%+ against two targets and allow you to us focus or warhorn for their respective dps skill.

GS is better against 3 targets at all time and it’s better against whatever numbers of enemies at less than 50%.

Seem that both have strength and weakness and the best way to play the reaper will be to use both weapons correctly. Sound better than just using GS or just Dagger.

Oh and Gravedigger is still powerful at 50%. I’m not sure but I think that GS will still be part of the optimal rotation at 50%. But I might be wrong there.

You only need 1 enemy sub 50% for GD to strike EVERY enemy hit for increased dmg. So 1 enemy at 100% hp and other sub 50% and GD already beats Dagger.

GS is more versatile. If anything just use both guys :P

There is one problem, just slight one. No range!

That’s not a problem. It’s using right tools for the job. Screw is worse than hammer at putting in the nails :P

If you want range use other weapons. If you want dagger + gs strengths use both, if you prefer to have ranged option then ditch either gs or dagger for it.

It’s making choices:P

Ravezaar.4951:

Dagger is best, GS is most fun & rewarding and no amount of range can save the Axe (and btw 12k crit on GC is not true.. its a channeled ability that a guy with no legs can Dodge)

Dodge is not this magical infinite thing you can spam 24/7. There are a lot of other things players will want to dodge. Replying to every single skill “they will dodge it” is a bit overreacting because players won’t have dodge for every skill someone has. Lets be realistic here. Often it’s also not 1v1 but x vs x where nr of dodges is static but nr of things you want to dodge out of increases.

Killyox.3950:

Ravezaar.4951:

Dagger is best, GS is most fun & rewarding and no amount of range can save the Axe (and btw 12k crit on GC is not true.. its a channeled ability that a guy with no legs can Dodge)

Dodge is not this magical infinite thing you can spam 24/7. There are a lot of other things players will want to dodge. Replying to every single skill “they will dodge it” is a bit overreacting because players won’t have dodge for every skill someone has. Lets be realistic here. Often it’s also not 1v1 but x vs x where nr of dodges is static but nr of things you want to dodge out of increases.

´
Well I was being nice, to counter GC u dont even have to dodge at all u can just move abit… thats how bad it is

Ravezaar.4951:

Killyox.3950:

Ravezaar.4951:

Dagger is best, GS is most fun & rewarding and no amount of range can save the Axe (and btw 12k crit on GC is not true.. its a channeled ability that a guy with no legs can Dodge)

Dodge is not this magical infinite thing you can spam 24/7. There are a lot of other things players will want to dodge. Replying to every single skill “they will dodge it” is a bit overreacting because players won’t have dodge for every skill someone has. Lets be realistic here. Often it’s also not 1v1 but x vs x where nr of dodges is static but nr of things you want to dodge out of increases.

´
Well I was being nice, to counter GC u dont even have to dodge at all u can just move abit… thats how bad it is

Well GC is a no travel time instant hit attack so you saying that being able to “move a bit” to dodge it is rediculous. You have to dodge to avoid it. It’s also got a very fast channel time which means that the burst is kind of an all or nothing. If your opponent is skilled they can dodge the whole thing, but if they are out of dodges or miss a tell, getting hit by all or most of it is pretty easy.
I do agree that axe needs work, but you’re kind of overexagerating

Well if you want some good chill application skills on all your weapon sets (which isnt unreasonable given how much reaper can benefit from chill), you will want to take GS over dagger. Yes you can take focus for the chill on spinal shivers but due its casttime it is not really worth taking.

nekretaal.6485:

The real problem, however, is that the choice here is a false choice. Dagger, Greatsword, nd Reaper shroud are all functionally the same thing and that everything else stinks.

#pleaseFixAxeFocusScepter

I agree with this part. Greatsword feels good to me until I use it on Guardian or Warrior (especially with the passive procs they get for quickness). Dagger feels meh. Axe feels like soggy poo. Scepter feels better, but still meh.

I really, really wish we had some form of quickness (Danse Macabre ?) from something other than a 3s proc on a 30s cooldown from weapon sigils. : /

#pleaseFixAxeFocusScepterStaffandPassiveTraits

Ok so i guess ill help this out abit since its been bothering me abit. From numbers we got from beta gs auto is 10% behind dagger auto, got it. But you also have to take into account you can use gravedigger on cd even while your target is above 50% so lessen this gap(idk why ppl ignore this). Also, if you cant stay on your target 100% of the time(dodging/running away from things etc) then id say its still a toss up due to while dagger can get a couple quick hits in, you can start a gravedigger cast as you walk up so it finishes the moment you get into melee so in a situation where u can only attack for ~1-2sec before hopping off, personally id say gs wins there.

Now ppl usually bring up warhorn at this point with locust swarm. Numbers from last beta show gs nightfall doing more dmg that locust swarm. It is also on a lower cd and does its dmg in a smaller timeframe(6sec vs 10sec) and u can always drop on a boss then leave melee or w/e for mechanics and itll still be on boss while u must stick in melee the whole time for locust).

Dagger+wh wins out in single target lf gen and obviously sustain due to dagger #2. However once you start getting the ability to cleave gs wins out due to its auto lf scaling per target hit as well as #3(12% lf per target hit up to 3) and even the pull(4% per target up to 5). Obviously the sets differ in what they can bring if u want something specific(need more sustain and/or cripple spam+immob use dagger etc)(placement pulls and/or aoe blind+chills on gs)

When it comes down to it(will have to see final numbers on launch), as of now id say using a proper gs rotation is close enough to dagger dps on single target to where you should use it for melee unless u need something specific dag brings. Of course we also have gs doing more dps when target hits below 50%(dont just gravedigger spam remember to use nightfall).

Lastly use what you want but most likely id say id be bad to run two melee wep sets with reaper shroud so gs+(whatever ranged is best) will more likely be needed for encounters. Reason being, while running both melee might end up being best for top optimal dps, you have to take into account any mechanics that take you out of melee, because doing some ranged dps is better than doing no dps while out of melee dealing with mechanics.

edited for millions of typos

After 3y + playing Necro for 6k Hours I come to the understanding that the Axe is kittene, if ppl like it thats fine but plz dont compare the DPS to say D AA or even to the new GS.

Of all our Weapons off and mainhand I hold Axe as the worst: and i even counted Underwater weapons then

Spear is kinda good as an underwater weapon. It’s so good that I crafted the legendary spear for the awesome shark attack on Wicked spiral… Love it… Only issue with underwater combat is the lack of LF generation. Being condi or power, I always starve for LF which is frustrating since Water shroud is awesome.

Papish.5806:

Now ppl usually bring up warhorn at this point with locust swarm. Numbers from last beta show gs nightfall doing more dmg that locust swarm. It is also on a lower cd and does its dmg in a smaller timeframe(6sec vs 10sec) and u can always drop on a boss then leave melee or w/e for mechanics and itll still be on boss while u must stick in melee the whole time for locust).

There are times where you don’t want to cast nightfall as it is a field which might get in the way of blasting other fields. That’s worth a mention at least.

Dadnir.5038:

Spear is kinda good as an underwater weapon. It’s so good that I crafted the legendary spear for the awesome shark attack on Wicked spiral… Love it… Only issue with underwater combat is the lack of LF generation. Being condi or power, I always starve for LF which is frustrating since Water shroud is awesome.

I like the design behind spear, it has some good skills. That said it hasn’t been balanced as most underwater skills because Anet don’t want to deal with underwater atm. Necro spear is the only good thing about underwater though.

Lopez.7369:

In PvE, reaper will use dagger/warhorn or dagger/focus (depending on the fight) for anything above 50 percent health and greatsword for anything below 50 percent.

I don’t really see what’s wrong with that. Greatsword shouldn’t completely nullify other melee weapons.

GS does more damage. It’s just less flexible.

There’s nothing preventing you from running dagger/warhorn and GS. Just use dagger/warhorn above 50% and GS below 50%.

striker.3704:

There’s nothing preventing you from running dagger/warhorn and GS. Just use dagger/warhorn above 50% and GS below 50%.

This may be a thing but then again there may be instances where you need a melee and a ranged weapon so you have to pick one really or drop reaper all together. Besides pre 50% there are better rotations that dagger auto when the patch lands if you take reaper.

Ravezaar.4951:

Of all our Weapons off and mainhand I hold Axe as the worst: and i even counted Underwater weapons then

Well to be fair our underwater weapons are actually not bad. Infact underwater necro is probably still the strongest underwater profession.

Muchacho.2390:

Ravezaar.4951:

Of all our Weapons off and mainhand I hold Axe as the worst: and i even counted Underwater weapons then

Well to be fair our underwater weapons are actually not bad. Infact underwater necro is probably still the strongest underwater profession.

The spear is amazing I love it, only if skill 5 was dealing damage to every enemy it runs trough, that would be perfect. Trident is ok.