Guild Wars 2

Because the ho hum attitude watching the skills, talking about terrormancer (wtf is that?) and the whole part seem to be rushed by, and not really answer questions that necromancers have.

Blood Magic: It just does not work well with DS and does not heal you while ds.

A lot better feedback would have been. Ok, we saw the problem with Blood Magic on live. (it does not give enough heals/problems with ds and we know regen heals more than it) so we wanted blood magic to mean something blah blah. Got nothing in that sense.

Minion problems. My minions STILL some times stand around and do nothing, it was asked if the ai was going to get looked over..nothing.

Terrormancer…I don’t even know what to say. What is that?

It felt like they wanted to rush through it hurry up and get to through to the other two class for more fist pumping action. I know I wanted to punch my friend in the mouth being overly happy about warrior changes while I am sitting here like..wtf just happen?

I would assume it means it is a Necromancer that causes all kinds of terror through combat?

Jaymee.1560:

I would assume it means it is a Necromancer that causes all kinds of terror through combat?

So a condition necromancer? Because that is what the skill was mainly used by and no matter how great the other two skills are. There is really no option?

Sounds like good balance to me.

What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.

Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.

I feel your pain dude My mesmer build got blown to kingdom-come and made absolutely impossible now, with absolutely no way to build anything even remotely similar.

I spent at least an hour last night going over the dulfy shots of mesmer lines and there is NOTHING that interests me anymore cause whats left I like has been shelved in places I cannot reach or its been removed all together or got it’s functionality completely morphed into something else.

Jaymee.1560:

What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.

Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.

Well for one I would like specs mean something. Blood for example is a classic case of a class design gone wrong with the class skill.

My wife wanted to play a vampire type build but when she saw how poorly it heals/works around DS. She question what is the point, and for good reason.

I almost feel like all the blood magic minor traits should affect allies in an AoE. Would love to see something like the old battery vampire/verata style support necro like in GW1.

For those asking, “Terrormancer” is a name currently given to a particular type of necromancer PvP build that makes use of the trait terror. The playstyle is based around chaining fears together to lock down and finish off injured opponents.

Zagzag.7901:

For those asking, “Terrormancer” is a name currently given to a particular type of necromancer PvP build that makes use of the trait terror. The playstyle is based around chaining fears together to lock down and finish off injured opponents.

Thank you, last I heard that was just a normal con build.

Terrormancers are necros only real “burst” outside of lich. You load up on conditions and then chain 3 fears together to burst down an enemy. It is certainly no mesmer or thief burst, but it is all we are given. But the build was made completely unviable by the changes so it no longer matters. As was pretty much every necro build except minion master.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Terrormancers are necros only real “burst” outside of lich. You load up on conditions and then chain 3 fears together to burst down an enemy. It is certainly no mesmer or thief burst, but it is all we are given. But the build was made completely unviable by the changes so it no longer matters. As was pretty much every necro build except minion master.

Ya, like i said i thought that was just the normal condition build for necromancer. So it being called terror threw me off.

Calm down dude. No one can say ANYTHING about the incoming balancing because literally every single number we saw may as well mean nothing. They joked that they probably should have just set every number to 5000. They’re going over traits and the general effect of them, not balancing numbers. That’s literally the easiest part.

As for why they felt “rushed,” they had to rush through every class. They went over their alloted time, so yeah, I’m sure they didn’t want to turn what was supposed to be a four hour stream into what could easily have been a six-hour.

As for any questions you had about AI changes, they were really only focusing on traits for this AMA, so of course they’re not going to completely change topics. You and anyone else worried about numbers/balance is foolish to do so. We still don’t know what it’ll be like when it ships. If you have any concerns other than “omg my class is a joke now,” such as the “spirit of your build being lost,” then make a post about it. Spreading anxiety on the forums does nothing.

Well… I wasn’t very happy either… It seems they aiming towards PvP balance (I dislike it even more because i am PvE player). It is enough just to hear them while they presented warrior and Merciless hammer trait, and were proud that hambow will be back.
This trait is now master tier in defensive tree. They switched it to GM trait in other tree so it won’t be competing with cleansing ire. They didn’t even boost it, so master tier trait became gm, because that how they see this build. So they basically nerfed this trait.

Galeskyring.9617:

I feel your pain dude My mesmer build got blown to kingdom-come and made absolutely impossible now, with absolutely no way to build anything even remotely similar.

I spent at least an hour last night going over the dulfy shots of mesmer lines and there is NOTHING that interests me anymore cause whats left I like has been shelved in places I cannot reach or its been removed all together or got it’s functionality completely morphed into something else.

Are you kittening kidding with me? Mesmer got more buffs than nerfs and opened up so many more new possible great builds than bad ones. Interruption/condi on Mesmer will be great now. Same for phantasms and illusions.
Mesmer overall got a very good buff.

Necromancer.. not so much. Minion Master is buffed, but it was a minor buff and nothing huge.

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

To those saying traits might change we can get the idea of where they want to go based off them and where they think we are. The title alone is 79.9% accurate.

Jaymee.1560:

I would assume it means it is a Necromancer that causes all kinds of terror through combat?

What is that build Dps in PvE?

rager.4963:

Jaymee.1560:

What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.

Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.

Well for one I would like specs mean something. Blood for example is a classic case of a class design gone wrong with the class skill.

My wife wanted to play a vampire type build but when she saw how poorly it heals/works around DS. She question what is the point, and for good reason.

That kind of build would have worked in GW1.

Ironically the necro and mesmer have more viable build variety in GW1 than in GW2. You think that GW2 would be an improvement over GW1, but no…

Terror mancer is a conditions or hybrid build which focusses on damage from fear. You can spec fear to do damage whcih is a condition called terror. It does about 1100 dmg for a non condition user and a bit more for a condition build

terror has an advantage : it tags ppl het by your fear. In EotM if you run your zerg into a fear wall the necro get’s nothing, BUT if you run your zerg into a terror wall the necro gets as many bags as ppl fall down.

Fearmancers are DPS builds with terror generally 2/4/4/0/4
Terror mancers are condi builds with terror generally 0/6/4/0/4

Terrormancers are/were feared in WVW as being quite OP… at least when considering roaming. though the build is old and counters are well known…

DeceiverX.8361:

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

I know right, necro is so strong, every team as 2-3 of them in competitive PvP….

oh wait…

there was what… 1 necro in the top 10 competitive teams…?

ArenaNet have said they read forums and yet all this time we have been DYING to have better group utility, to be more desirable in organized groups, our concerns have not even been acknowledged, let alone addressed.

Here we are going through the biggest class changes since the game started and our desire for better group utility remains ignored.

DeceiverX.8361:

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

ROFL are you kidden me they are NOT lackluster in PVE I do amazing dps and don’t have no issues doing it.

biggs.4702:

ArenaNet have said they read forums and yet all this time we have been DYING to have better group utility, to be more desirable in organized groups, our concerns have not even been acknowledged, let alone addressed.

Here we are going through the biggest class changes since the game started and our desire for better group utility remains ignored.

But but the revenant.

aryvandar.8562:

DeceiverX.8361:

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

ROFL are you kidden me they are NOT lackluster in PVE I do amazing dps and don’t have no issues doing it.

DPS is all that matters in PvE?? Where have I been?

If you think the necromancer just got like this and wasn’t the epitome of useless classes, I suggest searching back to about over a year ago where we said the same thing, yet they didn’t listen

Sagat.3285:

biggs.4702:

ArenaNet have said they read forums and yet all this time we have been DYING to have better group utility, to be more desirable in organized groups, our concerns have not even been acknowledged, let alone addressed.

Here we are going through the biggest class changes since the game started and our desire for better group utility remains ignored.

But but the revenant.

It’s like they listened but not really!! Instead of fixing the current problems they build a new class instead! It’s brilliant!!! ._.

DeceiverX.8361:

MM are absurdly strong builds

I want whatever substance you’re high on because that’s gotta be some real good stuff man.

rager.4963:

Jaymee.1560:

What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.

Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.

Well for one I would like specs mean something. Blood for example is a classic case of a class design gone wrong with the class skill.

My wife wanted to play a vampire type build but when she saw how poorly it heals/works around DS. She question what is the point, and for good reason.

My necro is built like that, works fine now and having looked at the new traits it will probably work better after.

Khisanth.2948:

rager.4963:

Jaymee.1560:

What other option are you looking for? Necromancers, just like Elementalists and Mesmers are just another caster class. Their limitations are based on their profession, and there is only so much any caster can do… any class period, can do.

Noe having thought about it. I didn’t know there was a Terrormancer. Okay, that’s cool. But what is it? I would assume it is a necromancer that runs a specific kind of build, like the Berserker.

Well for one I would like specs mean something. Blood for example is a classic case of a class design gone wrong with the class skill.

My wife wanted to play a vampire type build but when she saw how poorly it heals/works around DS. She question what is the point, and for good reason.

My necro is built like that, works fine now and having looked at the new traits it will probably work better after.

Cool, she uses a dagger and she feels like the self heals from blood is not even close to the regen from the staff. So do you use +healing gear and power? Because she feels squishy as blood.

aryvandar.8562:

DeceiverX.8361:

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

ROFL are you kidden me they are NOT lackluster in PVE I do amazing dps and don’t have no issues doing it.

You really don’t. Try a top tier class, it won’t take long to notice the difference. I used to think the same as you, then I learned to play an ele. The difference was night and day.

aryvandar.8562:

DeceiverX.8361:

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

ROFL are you kidden me they are NOT lackluster in PVE I do amazing dps and don’t have no issues doing it.

you do know necro’s are NOT made for DPS but instead to support/control in battle……
i know i know, you think you have awesome DPS, until you see what a basic warrior can do……

Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors). The problem is that necros provide no reflects, no aoe might, no aoe fury, no unique group buffs, and aren’t that good at aoe blind or aoe condition removal. This is why mesmers, that don’t deal that good of dps, are way more popular, they provide time warp, invis for skipping, portal for skipping, and a ton of reflects. Similarly, rangers provide spotter, frost spirit, and some aoe might.

Terromancer is not that strong in pvp, if you think so you have some very weird qualifications for what is strong because the build is easily countered, and is only run by a few competitive teams (strong builds are run by at least 50% of teams). Just because you do ok with it against pugs does not mean the build is strong.

Siphoning builds are bad, it isn’t about your feelings about the build, or how you feel it performs. It’s about the fact that it doesn’t provide even remotely close to the amount of sustain other classes have and the damage is similarly negligible. Again, you can run it if you want, but you will never get anywhere close to the sustain of guards, warriors, eles, engis, or rangers. This is a fact based on simple mathematics, not opinions.

zapv.8051:

Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors). The problem is that necros provide no reflects, no aoe might, no aoe fury, no unique group buffs, and aren’t that good at aoe blind or aoe condition removal. This is why mesmers, that don’t deal that good of dps, are way more popular, they provide time warp, invis for skipping, portal for skipping, and a ton of reflects. Similarly, rangers provide spotter, frost spirit, and some aoe might.

Terromancer is not that strong in pvp, if you think so you have some very weird qualifications for what is strong because the build is easily countered, and is only run by a few competitive teams (strong builds are run by at least 50% of teams). Just because you do ok with it against pugs does not mean the build is strong.

Siphoning builds are bad, it isn’t about your feelings about the build, or how you feel it performs. It’s about the fact that it doesn’t provide even remotely close to the amount of sustain other classes have and the damage is similarly negligible. Again, you can run it if you want, but you will never get anywhere close to the sustain of guards, warriors, eles, engis, or rangers. This is a fact based on simple mathematics, not opinions.

Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.

Dear lord some of these comments about MM being strong and Siphoning builds being good just shows how out of the loop or new to necromancer some of you are. Okay look.

Necro’s do good damage. Their damage is fine, it isn’t some pathetic bottom-barrel wet noodle you slap enemies with. Power builds do very well in sPvP for damage as well in PvE and condition builds are okay in sPvP and do some nice damage in PvE if you are the only one using conditions. Damage for necros is not the problem. The real issue with Necro is these five things:

-Mobility
-Disengage
-Surviving focus fire/Stuns
-Stomping and Preventing being stomped
-Party support
Guess the one class that lacks in all five of these categories? You guessed it. The necromancer! Guess what we get instead? The wonderful “second health bar”- Death Shroud!

The class is just poorly built. It has no skills with mobility or disengage potential, the only one being wurm which you must cast twice to use, ensure it doesn’t die in the process, and must be in range if it is alive in order to teleport. It lacks any disengage skills (skills that apply swiftness do NOT count) that other classes have such as Ele’s Ride the Lightning or Warrior’s bull charge. We have no group wide buffs such as AoE might, reflects, stealth, swiftness, protection, etc. apart from our wells which are very situational in PvE and hardly work in PvP because no one stands in them for a long time. Which, as a result, makes us undesired in group content. To add to this we have no combo fields besides dark, which aren’t even that useful and we have no active blast or projectile finishers that we can trigger on our own and frequently.

It can’t survive focus fire from more than one person at a time because we have absolutely no skills that allow us to do so. For example, Ele can pop mist form and it doesn’t matter if a whole WvW group is attacking him he won’t take a single point of damage. Guardian’s can pop their elite skill that grants them invulnerability, Engi’s can use their invulnerability elixir, thieves can stealth, etc.

To compound this already wonderful problem, the phrase that the Devs constantly use to justify us lacking in all of these categories is our wonderful Death Shroud mechanic. Which, in of itself, is contradictory because we are locked out of ALL of our skills when using it (the only class mechanic that does this) and it doesn’t prevent us from being pummeled to death by CC’s and multiple enemies yet the devs constantly justify our lack of everything else because we have a second health bar, when it doesn’t even function like that. It’s just a damage sponge and not even a very good one at that.

Finally, two of our trait lines have ALWAYS been bad (Blood/Death magic), one of our elites is buggy as hell (Flesh Golem), and they have now just recently screwed over the curses trait line. For almost three years the Necro community has been giving feedback on how to fix this class and instead the Devs give us something we never asked for (Duuhmfire). They sometimes give us something that helps us (e.g. the stun break in DS that you can trait for now) but it is never enough to adress the core issues.

Do you see why the necro community might be a little peeved at the moment? Especially when with an expansion which generally brings broad sweeping changes that can fix classes, this is what we got, when some classes that were already in good standing got even better? That and along with the sort-of lackluster enthusiasam they had when presenting the Necro changes only to rush through it because of their excitement about the next class to talk about just rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. I know they didn’t mean it intentionally but it didn’t help the situation.

rager.4963:

zapv.8051:

snip

Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.

People say a lot of things, doesn’t change the facts. You don’t have to believe me, go try it for your self. Go to pvp with your necro, equip siphoning traits and play a few games. Then go to pvp with a warrior, guardian, engi, ele, or ranger while speccing into their sustain traits. You’ll realize really quickly how weak siphons are.
To give you an idea, engineers backpack regenerator heals for about 125 per second, and works all the time because the check to see if they are in a kit is every 10 seconds. In order to match that with vampiric you have to be hitting the other person every second 2.5 times a second. That isn’t possible against anyone half decent because of damage mitigation. You might match it for 1-2 seconds, but never over a whole fight. Vampiric precision similarly would require about 2 critical hits per second which is impossible in pvp over the course of a fight. Purely in numbers these traits are behind other classes, what makes it even worse is that necros can’t get healing in DS, so these traits do no healing for ~30% of the fight.

Something to note, until we see exactly what the condition changes look like, it’s going to be hard to really figure out where Necro is going to end up; stacking damage on poison and burning, the removal or increase of the cap on bleeds and the ability to consistently apply burning from Dhuumfire are going to change the dps calculations a lot for condition builds.

Eolirin.1830:

Something to note, until we see exactly what the condition changes look like, it’s going to be hard to really figure out where Necro is going to end up; stacking damage on poison and burning, the removal or increase of the cap on bleeds and the ability to consistently apply burning from Dhuumfire are going to change the dps calculations a lot for condition builds.

Ya, but i really never consider necromancer problems to be really on damage you know?

For me the two main problems are.

Pet AI
DS is not good enough for some specs, to make up for the lack of defense/ult in others.

What would have been so hard for them to say.

Ok we know some of the feedback Necromancers have been having, and know the problems with Blood, or pet ai. So we made some changes and gave good reason on why they did it.

I love Necromancer spells, I love the weapon skills, I love the pets. I hate with a passion death shroud. It is not fun, I can’t heal while in it if I went a vampire spec. The skills DS has are not that much fun for me. Yet, it is forced on me and I have to live with it. If I want the other great stuff from the class.

zapv.8051:

rager.4963:

zapv.8051:

snip

Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.

People say a lot of things, doesn’t change the facts. You don’t have to believe me, go try it for your self. Go to pvp with your necro, equip siphoning traits and play a few games. Then go to pvp with a warrior, guardian, engi, ele, or ranger while speccing into their sustain traits. You’ll realize really quickly how weak siphons are.
To give you an idea, engineers backpack regenerator heals for about 125 per second, and works all the time because the check to see if they are in a kit is every 10 seconds. In order to match that with vampiric you have to be hitting the other person every second 2.5 times a second. That isn’t possible against anyone half decent because of damage mitigation. You might match it for 1-2 seconds, but never over a whole fight. Vampiric precision similarly would require about 2 critical hits per second which is impossible in pvp over the course of a fight. Purely in numbers these traits are behind other classes, what makes it even worse is that necros can’t get healing in DS, so these traits do no healing for ~30% of the fight.

I trust your word, as I don’t play any class but necromancer. That is why I am asking their feedback to back up the words. I was not trying to say you are wrong, or they are wrong. I just want more info from the people saying that leeching builds are strong.

They are all right, if you completely ignore any siphon trait but Bloodthirst. Our siphon skills are actually all right (save SoV’s passive, the active is good, though).

rager.4963:

Eolirin.1830:

Something to note, until we see exactly what the condition changes look like, it’s going to be hard to really figure out where Necro is going to end up; stacking damage on poison and burning, the removal or increase of the cap on bleeds and the ability to consistently apply burning from Dhuumfire are going to change the dps calculations a lot for condition builds.

Ya, but i really never consider necromancer problems to be really on damage you know?

For me the two main problems are.

Pet AI
DS is not good enough for some specs, to make up for the lack of defense/ult in others.

What would have been so hard for them to say.

Ok we know some of the feedback Necromancers have been having, and know the problems with Blood, or pet ai. So we made some changes and gave good reason on why they did it.

I love Necromancer spells, I love the weapon skills, I love the pets. I hate with a passion death shroud. It is not fun, I can’t heal while in it if I went a vampire spec. The skills DS has are not that much fun for me. Yet, it is forced on me and I have to live with it. If I want the other great stuff from the class.

That’s what the elite spec is for.

Should also be noted, Necro survivability is really strong even before siphon, thanks to Death Shroud and high base health. If siphon is made even just a little too good, necros become impossible to kill, so comparing them directly against other classes isn’t the right way to do it.

I do think Blood Magic needs a bit more help, and that should probably come in the form of some other effect rather that simply boosting healing on siphon (maybe this can be where we get pve group utility), but Necro siphons should not be as strong in healing as other classes’ sustain as we have lifeforce for that.

Eolirin.1830:

Should also be noted, Necro survivability is really strong even before siphon, thanks to Death Shroud and high base health. If siphon is made even just a little too good, necros become impossible to kill, so comparing them directly against other classes isn’t the right way to do it.

I do think Blood Magic needs a bit more help, and that should probably come in the form of some other effect rather that simply boosting healing on siphon (maybe this can be where we get pve group utility), but Necro siphons should not be as strong in healing as other classes’ sustain as we have lifeforce for that.

When I see quotes like this is figure this guy only plays pve and has never played wvw or spvp. Necro survivability vs mobs = strong, vs players it is not.

Well devs like to make jokes from necro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpF6GVJqgl8&feature=youtu.be

rager.4963:

Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.

The strongest vampiric build up to date can be found HERE

The dude did his math and updates it more than often

Sidenote, if you think that Necromancers are good at applying conditions, allow me to say you are wrong…
While I am not the person who did his math, back when I cared it was already clear the Necromancer’s condition application is not that strong – being severely outmatched by Engineer who can, at this moment, cap Vulnerability, Bleeding and all this while applying Poison and Burning… The only thing unique to the Necromancer is Torment, and that is it, noting that the torment uptime is laughable in a vaccuum enviroment due to the cooldown

What a Necromancer is good at is Boon Control and Condition Spreading – both in the form of Boon Corrupt, and Epidemic respectively… Mind you, we do not excel at removing boons on paper, as the Mesmer takes that cake – but the niche is that we form these boons into something an enemy would rather not have on their bar

In theory, and when HoT launches, you could do some fun stuff with a full Sinister set and Epidemic – but with the current implementation you would still find your condi damage without Epidemic being not that high up

zapv.8051:

Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors).

For casual PvE? Sure. But for dungeons, fractals and other instanced group content? They are terrible compared to the other classes.

Even if you compare a meta build optimized for DPS, warriors do ~25% more damage than necromancers. http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ If you add boons, buffs, and use a condition build, the gap is even wider.

I main a condi necro and made a warrior to try firsthand the difference. Now when I do dungeons I always take my norn warrior. The base DPS is way better than necro, even if my gear and build are not fully meta.

Necro damage may be ok for power builds but it is downright terrible for condition specs. Even if you somehow manage to build up your dps on a boss before it dies you will top out at about 4k dps. 5k with full might stacks, 6-7k burst with terror and burning.

Now compare that to an ele who can maintain a sustained 11-12k dps. or a warrior who can maintain 10k dps or basically any power build in the game.

aryvandar.8562:

DeceiverX.8361:

In it’s current state it’s one of the stronger classes in sPvP. Terrormancer and MM are absurdly strong builds, and DS burst is also incredibly strong in WvW.

They’re lackluster in PvE, but a class focused on control and conditions would be expected to be due to the way dungeons and world bosses are designed. We’ll also see what happens with the removal of the condi cap and poison being stackable. If anything, I’d expect to see condi sinister builds as providing the highest DPS by a far margin if the stack cap is removed.

ROFL are you kidden me they are NOT lackluster in PVE I do amazing dps and don’t have no issues doing it.

You’ve clearly never played any other class then. They do meh DPS while bringing absolutely nothing for the group.

It’s kind of the issue where every class can sort of do everything. Every class can deal damage, heal themselves, provide some level of party support, and protect themselves.

Necro just doesn’t do those things as well as the other classes.

Charblaze.6958:

zapv.8051:

Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors).

For casual PvE? Sure. But for dungeons, fractals and other instanced group content? They are terrible compared to the other classes.

Even if you compare a meta build optimized for DPS, warriors do ~25% more damage than necromancers. http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ If you add boons, buffs, and use a condition build, the gap is even wider.

I main a condi necro and made a warrior to try firsthand the difference. Now when I do dungeons I always take my norn warrior. The base DPS is way better than necro, even if my gear and build are not fully meta.

Did you actually look at that calculator. The meta dps warrior build is 2k dps higher than a necro, but your better of running the ps build which deals less damage than necro but provides support. Also, I have all classes to 80, and am well aware of the capabilities of each. If you think you base damage on that warrior build is high, go play a thief, or ele. You’ll be blown away. Again though, a meta necro is very close to the same dps as most warrior builds with only the meta greatsword build being significantly better dps.

I don’t care what any calculator says: reflects are the king of of DPS in all PvE that matters.

Reflects do orders of magnitude more DPS than everything else combined, and necromancers do not have access to them, everybody else (including revenant) does.