Whatever it is, I think it should have CLEAVE. The shout is intended to scale up based on how many are hit by it, right? Well, the difference between one cleaving minion and FIVE cleaving minions is pretty dang significant.
I’d also settle for ranged, since ranged things tend to… Work… Better…
Or… What about a single minion almost like a flesh golem who’s size and strength depends on the number of enemies hit. So it starts out, if only 1 enemy is hit, the size of a jagged horror and will increase in size and strength the more enemies struck.
Maybe if max people where hit and its the strongest stage; it can cause cleave on its basic attacks.
Okay, two options. First, have the shout create a new minion, like the conclusion others have come to.
Second option: the minions release scale with the number of enemies hit
Scenario 1, depending on the number of enemies hit you get…
1) Jagged Horror
2) Bone Minion
3) Blood or Shadow Fiend
4) Bone Fiend
5) Flesh Golem
So you only get a single Flesh Golem if you hit five enemies with the shout, along with a full set of the others.
Scenario 2:
1) Jagged Horror
2) Jagged Horror
3) Bone Minion
4) Bone Minion
5) Bone Fiend or Flesh Golem
Trying to not step on the toes of the other utilities as much, here’s a toned down version of the same idea.
Again, This makes the skill itself too strong especially in WvW lol or any pvp team fight. You are not only gaining a minion already provided through a utility but ALSO are able to now deal additional effects to enemies and gain even more minions. I mean this is just too strong.
So what im seeing is that you can gain all those minions if you hit 5 people with the shout (a total of 2 jagged horrors, 2 bone minions, and 1 bone fiend or flesh golem) just for hitting 5 people. This makes this skill incredibly strong in WvW since not only will a MM have those 5 minons out but also 2 other utility minions, plus a blood fiend and a flesh golem to a total of 9 minions (most of them NOT jagged horrors lol) all dealing damage an stealing health (siphoning now allowed in DS so you know where this is going) and possibly ALL causing death nova on death. Why even bother have allies? lol Would make the necro ridiculously strong.
Gaining one flesh golem at max hits I would say that is the more sensible outcome of this skill. Additionally you could add a minion secondary but the skill itself would just be taking over a mm’s utility slot in any build pretty much nullifying the idea that its supposed to be in the shout type skill. (it would look and act like a minion skill but be called a shout lol)
Personally i would prefer they scrap the minion shout and replace it with a defence shout. So projectile reflect shout or something.
No matter what you do to “Rise!” its going to step on the toes of regular minion abilities too much. Even with jagged horrors its a bit much. Mainly for Death Nova fodder. But thats still taking a lot away from other minion skills. Jagged horrors or custom minions are the only options in my mind. But i still feel like it shouldnt exist at all.
Right. So I don’t think some people understand the balance factor of this whole thing XD
I hear some people say Bone Fiends and some people say Shadow Fiends. There is no way Anet will allow you to get up to five bone fiends or shadow fiends when we have an actual minion skill that provides us with just one…… you might as well be asking to get five flesh golems.
I think if not jagged horrors they should be a new minion.
My suggestion(s) would be
Bone Shakers: bone hands that burst out of the ground (almost like scepter 3) and grab hold of the enemies they spawned next to, immobilizing and deal damage every second. Since they are minions they could be destroyed and end immobilized effects much like binding roots.
Shadow Wargs: These would be along the nightmare type (shadow fiend) vein of minions. I thought about a “pack” type of minion and figured the wargs would do nicely and could just use a nightmarish / dark incorporeal makeover.
I really like the Bone Shakers idea. Works really well with the forcing enemies to stay in fight concept they have for the Reaper. Would be fun with Death Nova.
Personally i would prefer they scrap the minion shout and replace it with a defence shout. So projectile reflect shout or something.
No matter what you do to “Rise!” its going to step on the toes of regular minion abilities too much. Even with jagged horrors its a bit much. Mainly for Death Nova fodder. But thats still taking a lot away from other minion skills. Jagged horrors or custom minions are the only options in my mind. But i still feel like it shouldnt exist at all.
With the changes to necromantic corruption and the death magic tree, the death nova build and “strong minion build” are completely seperate. Right now the death nova build is nothing more than current minion master build but without the 25% bonus on minion damage. It requires a new skill that summons a bunch of weak minions to function properly. If you remove the minion summoning aspect of “Rise!” that build is gonna be shot before the expansion even hits.
I too disagree with how everyone in this thread wants the skill to summon minions created through utilities normally (bone, blood, shadow, or even flesh golem) as that does step on other utilities toes. Summoning jagged horrors or other new minions definitely is the way to go.
I see your point. It just feels like “Rise!” should be something we get with a minion elite spec. And not just slapped onto a shout.
I think the only reason they put it on “Rise!” was because they wanted to make death nova builds a thing in HoT. Aura of the lich was also the iconic minion master elite from GW1 for this type of thing, and lich form doesn’t accurately replicate that feeling. Rise gives more of that effect (and also isn’t on a 180 second cooldown).
I’m also under the impression that shouts aren’t really meant to be used as a full bar. They rely too much on enemy numbers, and feel more supplementary than base, thus making them good for mixing and matching. IE:
-“your soul is mine!” is good for spectral builds as it generates life force and is stronger with more enemies, where a spectral necro probably won’t need to pop his heal in 1 v 1.
-“Rise!” is pretty obvious for MM builds
-“you’re all weaklings!” works with any build really, but moresoe for damage builds with a big burst skill
-“suffer!” works with well builds and vampiric builds in general
ect
I don’t think we’re gonna get any specializations that are focused on an existing skill tree. It’s pretty clear they’re all gonna be designed to bring something new to the table on their own while still working with existing specs. The only catch here is that you can’t really support a minion master build without summoning minions in some way due to how their traits are setup.
I’m also under the impression that shouts aren’t really meant to be used as a full bar.
I disagree, the use of old mechanics is meant to make more specific runes for them but how will you do that if the skills are not meant to be placed together? If they were so stand-alone why would we have traits that support the mechanic? The rune/trait’s effect for a single shout would have to outweigh the oppurtinity cost of another, more general set of runes/traits. But that would make the effect for multiple shouts op.
Here was my idea, Undead Crows. It would match the look and feel of the Reaper.
-snip-
I definitely agree that we should get undead crows. If each undead crow blinds on auto attack, that makes us tankier, makes enemies do less damage, looks SERIOUSLY AWESOME, and would present us with a new form of synergies.
Currently we only have shadow fiend, but his blind is abysmal.
With the undead crows, we get syngergy with blind → chill in curses and then all of our chill traits. It could be quite effective. This would be offset by how fragile the crows are.
I disagree, the use of old mechanics is meant to make more specific runes for them but how will you do that if the skills are not meant to be placed together? If they were so stand-alone why would we have traits that support the mechanic? The rune/trait’s effect for a single shout would have to outweigh the oppurtinity cost of another, more general set of runes/traits. But that would make the effect for multiple shouts op.
While true, we have 4 utility shouts with only 3 utility slots, meaning one shout being the “odd man out” isn’t an issue, because it doesn’t need to fit. I still do think the shout will have a lot of issues being made to actually be a meaningful utility though.
Needs to be a weaker version of flesh reaver called “Lesser Flesh Reaver” much along the lines of how eles have lesser versions of their elementals. Flesh reaver is the only undead creature necros have no access to currently without the sigil and would fit good with reaper theme. Either that or some smaller aatex’s from the underworld that can do a knockback or that new charge ability they gave to them a little while back that leaves the line of corrupted energy behind them.
I don’t think there’s a problem with having a Shout that primarily services Death Magic necromancers as the other three utility Shouts seem very strong for general use.
Maybe knock down the CD a bit.
If there is a problem with the Jagged Horrors, fix the Jagged Horrors. It’s probably their AI, or the rules for their abilities.
if not godzilla, then let miley cyris hope out of the ground, shake her rump at extremely high rates of speed, and immobilizes people so i can go around and kill them, eventually.
I disagree, the use of old mechanics is meant to make more specific runes for them but how will you do that if the skills are not meant to be placed together? If they were so stand-alone why would we have traits that support the mechanic? The rune/trait’s effect for a single shout would have to outweigh the oppurtinity cost of another, more general set of runes/traits. But that would make the effect for multiple shouts op.
While true, we have 4 utility shouts with only 3 utility slots, meaning one shout being the “odd man out” isn’t an issue, because it doesn’t need to fit. I still do think the shout will have a lot of issues being made to actually be a meaningful utility though.
Who says the new runes would have to be for Shouts anyway. They could easily make a run that has direct effects on minions themselves or when summoning a minion(s).
I like the idea of wraith-like ghostly pets rather than the shambling, slimey ooze-style monsters because the shambling pets don’t seem to shamble very much. Look at the flesh golem – it runs. It doesn’t even run in a horrible way, it runs like an athlete (of course, the mob has to keep up with the necromancer, which presents a problem). While this makes the necromancer look particularly skilled at reforming corpses, it’s my opinion that a gory mess (perhaps with a trail on the ground) would look cooler.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
This is what reaper needs. Same skills and everything but with a natural health degen like jagged horrors. It’s skills according to the wiki are a health steal and a leap (teleport-type) attack. It would ensure it actually reaches it’s target. The health steal I admit might be too much unless it was a small health steal that heals the necro instead. They are usually fairly fragile, so it wouldn’t be tanky like a flesh golem, but more resilient than a jagged horror.
