Guild Wars 2

I play necro condition every now and then and when i do people always say ooo condition necro so op and easy. Now in my mind im like sure its somewhat easy but the op part is what gets me. I mean sure we get another hp bar (F1) but the conditions is not that bad i mean if u use staff/scep/dagger ur going to get like 12-16 bleed stacks max and a poison. Now people complain about that but nobody complains when i play my condition ranger get 20secs of poison and 10secs of burning and 20-25 bleeds in 5seconds

We look cooler while fighting.

Cause Dhuumfire + terror hurts ridiculous amounts while also having you cc’d. They just need to turn dhuumfire into Torment and everything will be a-okay.

Berullos.6928:

Cause Dhuumfire + terror hurts ridiculous amounts while also having you cc’d. They just need to turn dhuumfire into Torment and everything will be a-okay.

Dhum fire????

Berullos.6928:

Cause Dhuumfire + terror hurts ridiculous amounts while also having you cc’d. They just need to turn dhuumfire into Torment and everything will be a-okay.

I keep hearing this idea, but it would actually be stronger in teamfights. Spirit rangers and engis already kitten burning, having a necro adding duration doesn’t make a lot of difference, one condi remove still clears the stack.

If you have a necro stacking torment every 10-12 seconds instead of every 34/40, and one of the others stacking burning, now you need even more condi removes to get clean.

Mammoth.1975:

Berullos.6928:

Cause Dhuumfire + terror hurts ridiculous amounts while also having you cc’d. They just need to turn dhuumfire into Torment and everything will be a-okay.

I keep hearing this idea, but it would actually be stronger in teamfights. Spirit rangers and engis already kitten burning, having a necro adding duration doesn’t make a lot of difference, one condi remove still clears the stack.

If you have a necro stacking torment every 10-12 seconds instead of every 34/40, and one of the others stacking burning, now you need even more condi removes to get clean.

Possibly. But really long burning is already scary as hell. And the thing is you can adjust torment damage easier with stacks much easier than burning without it being an ugly duration hack. And then torment fits necros thematically based on what the devs said.

And the biggest condi burst comes from after stacking up condis, going into shroud getting the fear for the longest terror possible and then also stacking up the chains. You so you get burning + torment + all the other jazz, so its tons of condis to clear. When you turn the burning into torment > its one less condi to remove.

But for my personal reason, I just think burning doesnt fit a necro. Torment seems better, cleaner fix than duration hack.

Btw, teamfights the burning gets procced randomly on any of the targets you managed to aoe, and then you get the ICD. So the biggest increase that dhuumfire gives is in a 1v1 or maybe 2v2 situation.

Well , I find necro is op.
I’m a MM btw and I think that MM is the best build for necro. I can kill any one in PvP ( killed 5 players while camping )

Power necro without aoe so no staff no wells but pure damage..
Glass cannon build without dumbfire btw.

Play that for a while and once you can survive spikes you can play anything and destroy anyone.

note: I have no clue why people find conditions op.
Yet when i play my non condi necro i still get flamed by thieves and rangers about conditions..

My warrior has a win ration of problably 80/20 where the 80 is wins for me, and the ones i lose is often because i get picked off when on low health, the weakness for necros in general is CC, knockdown, interrupts, daze, condtion removal and stabilty, see how many counters there are?.

People find it OP for several reasons

1) They think in all terms 1v1 example OMG Necro OP 1v1 yada yada yada. Anything can kill you if you are tied up fighting someone else but everyone knows that so why not choose the best argument they can that the game isn’t balanced around 1v1!

2) They happen to be playing a profession or spec with weak condi removal (see mesmer) a mesmer can have awesome condi clear if they spec it but those aren’t popular spec’s. Alot of popular builds for all professions are more 1v1 focused than team focused.

3) Somone else told them so they believe it.

4) they haven’t played a necro can you burst people down? yes are you also very susceptible to burst yes. So I don’t see the problem honestly. A burst spec is susceptible to burst damage thats how it is for all professions. The necro just happens to be the master of conditions so it is capable of condi burst other professions usually aren’t except for maybe a engi not every class is able to do everything the devs have said it multiple times but some people really think one day every class will be able to support just as good as a guardian(which will never happen)

5) Alot of things are viable when people hop in don’t communicate for a win and just kind of play randomly. Just because 1 person joined to really try to win doesn’t mean everyone joined to win somebody might be testing some runes or something.

Condi Necro is OP for a few reasons.
First of all they put out a huge variety of Conditions very fast.

A Necromancer can put out Bleed+Poison+Cripple+Blind+Weakness+Chill+Torment+Burning+Fear and do it pretty easily.
For most Professions it’s extremely hard to remove that many Conditions.
This is because many condition removal skills remove 1-3 conditions at a time.

In addition most other Professions rely on Vigor and Blocks to live and Condition damage ignores them once they are applied.
The Poison also cuts the survivability of Elementalists and Guardians.

Professions like Ranger can stack Bleeds much faster than a Necro, but a stack of 25 Bleeds only takes 1 condi removal skill use to reset to 0.

An another reason condi Necros are so strong is that they use the Terror trait and chain up Fears for CC and even more damage.
If you then have 2 or 3 Necros on your side and use Epidemic you’ll just absolutely demolish most players.

Outside of those builds Necro definitely has things that need buffs, though.
Necros are pretty lacking defensively, with CC and multi-person bursts messing them up really bad.
They lack a disengage and yet survive nowhere near as well as Guardians do.

98% of people choose not to use condition curing skills. So, instead of them viewing necromancers as a normal class they view them as OP.

^^^^
Any profession that stacks in groups are technically OP. Don’t try to claim it is just necromancers LastDay

Just remember if you’re a glass cannon i can 1 hit you.

oZii.2864:

but some people really think one day every class will be able to support just as good as a guardian(which will never happen)

Their statement about not every Profession being capable of everything is talking about specific things, not the big picture.

A Support Necro shouldn’t Block+Heal the way a Guardian does, but they should still support just as well as a Guardian does.
And perhaps one day they shall.

I just doubt that’s anytime soon.
It’s worth noting that pre-launch Necro was insanely overpowered as a bunker, and now they are terrible at that role.
It takes surprisingly little to change things completely.

dodgerrule.8739:

98% of people choose not to use condition curing skills. So, instead of them viewing necromancers as a normal class they view them as OP.

Well, there’s a reason for it.
Running that much condition removal is outright crippling to many builds.

As an example Necros are really bad vs knockdowns.
You could say “Run more stunbreaks and stability!” but running 30 soul reaping and 3 Stunbreakers makes your build really bad.

In a similar way a Mesmer running mass condi removal is outright horrible.
Eles get lucky because one of their best builds has a ton of condi removal already.

Necros get even more lucky because Consume Conditions is their best heal so you sacrifice nothing for it, and you usually run off-hand Dagger and Staff, both of which help you deal with them even more.

Why do people complain about necro?

1) It is because they are clueless and haven’t actually played a necro, so they don’t actually know how non-faceroll the class is / how many ways there are to get stomped into the ground.
2) It is because of bullkitten e-sport class nerf politics youtube videos.
3) It is because they can’t do math, so they don’t realize that the “fear CC burst chain” does less damage than a couple of heartseekers.
4) It is because they are wearing berserker gear and don’t want to have to actually spec any condition clears / regen / vitality / l2p.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

sas.6483:

Why do people complain about necro?

1) It is because they are clueless and haven’t actually played a necro, so they don’t actually know how non-faceroll the class is / how many ways there are to get stomped into the ground.
2) It is because of bullkitten e-sport class nerf politics youtube videos.
3) It is because they can’t do math, so they don’t realize that the “fear CC burst chain” does less damage than a couple of heartseekers.
4) It is because they are wearing berserker gear and don’t want to have to actually spec any condition clears / regen / vitality / l2p.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

1) False. If you get stomped in a 1v1, you’re doing it very wrong. Throwing up Spectral Armor and going into DS can really easily keep you alive. Add in the fact that Doom can be casted while CCed and how damaging you are, it’s easy to stay alive. Your defense is counterpressure.
2) ??? It’s because Necromancer is dipping heavily into two parts of the trinity. It has high CC and high Damage. Anything that dips too much into two or is EXTREME in 1 is pretty OP. For example, Spirit Ranger is high Support and Damage. Air Spike Ele is extreme in the damage area.
3) Heartseeker doesn’t CC you. It’s also an incredibly easy to pick out animation. If you look at a LOT of the necro skills, the animations are very similar and hard to pick out. Not to mention the chain can be done from 1,200 range away. Furthermore, if you HS spam, you run out of initiative, which basically puts everything on cooldown. This doesn’t happen with necromancers.
4) Even if you spec condiclears, you need a TON of them to face a necro. Signet of spite? Two marks? All of these put up crazy amounts of conditions. As for berserkers, yeah, they deserve to die quick, but also remember that conditions ignore armor.

I have play with 4 char mainly.

-Ranger
-Thief
-Guardian
-Necro

The complains are from SPVP mainly. The problem is that the mechanics of Terrormancer build are very easy, and playing SPVP pulls people to fight ina a very small area, where necromancer is god.

This is not a big problem in WvW because you have a lot of space.

Is exactly the opposite with thieves. They are actually in a very low rank now, but in WvW are very anoying because of the big space the have but in SPVP are not even close to be good as necro.

The combination of Conditions Damage+Vit+Def that most armors and jewels give is why conditional builds are a problem.

AOE conditional damage, with greate defensive stats and the most easy playing mechanics is why now necromancer looks so op.

And yes like someone said before . . . the main problem with all conditions issues is burn . . . just too much damage.

I love when I fight Condi Necros with my Necro.It’s fun to let them stack up all of their condi’s,then throw them all back on them.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

sas.6483:

Why do people complain about necro?

…

1) False. If you get stomped in a 1v1, you’re doing it very wrong. Throwing up Spectral Armor and going into DS can really easily keep you alive. Add in the fact that Doom can be casted while CCed and how damaging you are, it’s easy to stay alive. Your defense is counterpressure.
2) ??? It’s because Necromancer is dipping heavily into two parts of the trinity. It has high CC and high Damage. Anything that dips too much into two or is EXTREME in 1 is pretty OP. For example, Spirit Ranger is high Support and Damage. Air Spike Ele is extreme in the damage area.
3) Heartseeker doesn’t CC you. It’s also an incredibly easy to pick out animation. If you look at a LOT of the necro skills, the animations are very similar and hard to pick out. Not to mention the chain can be done from 1,200 range away. Furthermore, if you HS spam, you run out of initiative, which basically puts everything on cooldown. This doesn’t happen with necromancers.
4) Even if you spec condiclears, you need a TON of them to face a necro. Signet of spite? Two marks? All of these put up crazy amounts of conditions. As for berserkers, yeah, they deserve to die quick, but also remember that conditions ignore armor.

I recommend actually going and taking a look at the definition of a cooldown and what the actual cooldowns are for necro skills, and what the typical builds / utility skill combinations are. Then, look up what CC skills are available for other classes and do a comparison. If you still feel like complaining, you can go back a few patches and see what actually changed as far as necro condition application / damage to make condi necros supposedly so OP. I think what you find will be surprising and possibly informative for you.

Or just keep on moaning about how unfair things are. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

LastDay.3524:

oZii.2864:

but some people really think one day every class will be able to support just as good as a guardian(which will never happen)

Their statement about not every Profession being capable of everything is talking about specific things, not the big picture.

A Support Necro shouldn’t Block+Heal the way a Guardian does, but they should still support just as well as a Guardian does.
And perhaps one day they shall.

I just doubt that’s anytime soon.
It’s worth noting that pre-launch Necro was insanely overpowered as a bunker, and now they are terrible at that role.
It takes surprisingly little to change things completely.

No it isn’t specific not every class will do everything as other professions some classes will inherently be better at different roles than other classes intentionally. Right now elementalist is the second best healer in the game after guardian it will never be the best healer that is intended. Elementalist goes against your notion that it is specific because elementalist jack of all trades master of none. If you go look at a old SoTG Chaplan was asked if thief is intended to be the best burst damage class he said “Yes” which means no class will ever be as good at burst damage as a thief (single target and aoe with cleave is another story that title is probably warriors to claim).

Most would agree that thief is the most mobile class with warriors at a very close second. Why did they nerf RTL? It put eles on the same level of mobility as a thief and warrior. If you look at Isiah “Izzy” Cartwrights elemenalist dev stream he states that they toned down elementalist mobility on purpose and they feel that it is in the right place now but that would go against your suggestion that every class will be as good as every class if they spec for it. You can’t right now spec a elementalist to be as mobile as a warrior or a thief.

Do you ever see thief being able to support as well as a guardian? The only AOE heal they have is Shadow Refuge and Blinding powder if they take shadow protector trait and stack healing power the next healing option is leeching venoms with venom share that will never match the healing output of a guardian or elementalist because it doesn’t scale the same for every class and takes up utilities slots and requires you to hit a target as the other professions support heals do not.

If you are saying some different type of support then I don’t know what that would be outside of healing and boons. A mesmer can pump out boons almost as good as guardians and give them to team mates if they so choose with signet of inspiration I don’t know of many boons a thief hands out except to steal with bountiful theft and might from venoms, and fury, might and swiftness from thrill of the crime trait.

I guess it comes down to what you classify as roles but there are roles in this game to be sure. There are pro’s and cons for each class in each role a weakness of a thief in a dps role is different than that of a warrior. A necro as a burst roamer/ganker will have different weakness than a warrior or thief in that same role (mainly disengaging if it comes down to it) you can build a thief to be tanky(I dont know why) but it will never be as good at tanking as a guardian or warrior because of the class design.

sas.6483:

Why do people complain about necro?

1) It is because they are clueless and haven’t actually played a necro, so they don’t actually know how non-faceroll the class is / how many ways there are to get stomped into the ground.
2) It is because of bullkitten e-sport class nerf politics youtube videos.
3) It is because they can’t do math, so they don’t realize that the “fear CC burst chain” does less damage than a couple of heartseekers.
4) It is because they are wearing berserker gear and don’t want to have to actually spec any condition clears / regen / vitality / l2p.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

true and true

Paladin gecko.5697:

I play necro condition every now and then and when i do people always say ooo condition necro so op and easy. Now in my mind im like sure its somewhat easy but the op part is what gets me. I mean sure we get another hp bar (F1) but the conditions is not that bad i mean if u use staff/scep/dagger ur going to get like 12-16 bleed stacks max and a poison. Now people complain about that but nobody complains when i play my condition ranger get 20secs of poison and 10secs of burning and 20-25 bleeds in 5seconds

1300 dmg / tic , GTFO BALANCE !!!! TYVM ANET BB ! ESPORT MATERIAL FAIL !

Berullos.6928:

Cause Dhuumfire + terror hurts ridiculous amounts while also having you cc’d. They just need to turn dhuumfire into Torment and everything will be a-okay.

Stun locking warriors hurt more… with longer CC, condition immunity and the ability to disengage…

I’ve read this thread a bit… there we go with necromancer is OP again…
Some of you people really like the attention don’t you ?
Has any of you played TPvP in top 500 and better on the EU leaderboards ?…

Any of you ever met two stun-locking warriors ?… Any of you met a thief that you see him only briefly as he almost 1 shots you and you never see him again… any of you met engineers that are mostly immune to all damage ?…

All this necromancer is OP until you guys reach top 500, then you’ll get bounced around like a ping pong until killed, and everyone you ever try to kill will outrun you so fast that they’ll be outside of your LOS before you can blink twice… then you’ll cry for months threatening to quit because this is ridiculous…

But then again… why do i even bother, yes… necro OP… now use that OPness so we can have top 100 necromancer only… come on, chop chop…

Edit: perhaps you guys are referring to WvW and not TPvP… hold on, i have something for you guys, a friend made a screenshot.

Click here for fun

But of course this damage takes a while to reach max… and can be totally negated by condition removal, condition immunity and heal… oh wait, that’s condition damage not direct damage.

I’m sorry to say this, but some of you need to learn to play more, and learn to QQ less.

Wait wait wait nemesis ? You Main necro , post pics of other classes when someone scream necro op ? GTFO

Nemesis.8593:

Any of you ever met two stun-locking warriors ?

I just started doing a bit of spvp and I’ve already encountered stun lock warriors immediately calling me an OP noob for playing a necro. I’ve noticed some of them tend to purposely go after necros (until I put on Lichform, then they run away… -_-). If there ever was a build calling for diminishing returns….

Anyway, good post. I play this profession as it’s what I picked to play in beta and enjoy its playstyle, not because of its perceived OPness (which I don’t get.. honestly every profession has something that’s quite strong and annoying to deal with.) It’s quite disheartening to incur abuse for it.

Why do people find Necromancers OP? Because there is one spec right now that is.

Lothirieth.3408:

Nemesis.8593:

Any of you ever met two stun-locking warriors ?

I just started doing a bit of spvp and I’ve already encountered stun lock warriors immediately calling me an OP noob for playing a necro. I’ve noticed some of them tend to purposely go after necros (until I put on Lichform, then they run away… -_-). If there ever was a build calling for diminishing returns….

Anyway, good post. I play this profession as it’s what I picked to play in beta and enjoy its playstyle, not because of its perceived OPness (which I don’t get.. honestly every profession has something that’s quite strong and annoying to deal with.) It’s quite disheartening to incur abuse for it.

Lets compare stun warriors to a necro ! Stun warrior – stability = over ! Lets see necro = NO kittenIN WAY TO BEAT IT ! YOU UNDERSTAND ? HAMMER NERF ANET ALREADY ON THIS kittenIN NOOBASS CLASS

No way to beat it? Some Engineer specs can’t die to the one build that people are complaining about. Literally, they cannot die to it.

Stability+ condition cleanse = wasted Necro potential. Guardians take this an extra mile with Contemplation of Purity, making the necro’s supposed burst worse than useless. Warriors can become immune to the Necro for 10 seconds and ping pong them around otherwise.

The reason the Stunlock Warrior is being called OP is because it is impossible to have enough stunbreaks to combat that build. Yet, I don’t think that is broken either.

Bhawb.7408:

Why do people find Necromancers OP? Because there is one spec right now that is.

We should have a slumber party. You can tell me a story about the OP necro that signet of spite-dhuumfire-epidemic-terror bombed a point with five berserker thieves circle jerking on it. Then we can go watch Phantaram’s video and cry a little about necro survivability. Maybe then we can eat some pizza or something, and watch a 1vX roaming thief video and gush about the true meaning of skill.

sas.6483:

Bhawb.7408:

Why do people find Necromancers OP? Because there is one spec right now that is.

We should have a slumber party. You can tell me a story about the OP necro that signet of spite-dhuumfire-epidemic-terror bombed a point with five berserker thieves circle jerking on it. Then we can go watch Phantaram’s video and cry a little about necro survivability. Maybe then we can eat some pizza or something, and watch a 1vX roaming thief video and gush about the true meaning of skill.

Can i bring the KFC and Cola? It fits well with a well of tears and the torment of getting ping ponged and 1 second + cast times.

sas.6483:

Bhawb.7408:

Why do people find Necromancers OP? Because there is one spec right now that is.

We should have a slumber party. You can tell me a story about the OP necro that signet of spite-dhuumfire-epidemic-terror bombed a point with five berserker thieves circle jerking on it. Then we can go watch Phantaram’s video and cry a little about necro survivability. Maybe then we can eat some pizza or something, and watch a 1vX roaming thief video and gush about the true meaning of skill.

By far the best post I’ve seen on this forum.

AFAIK, there is no way to spec a Necromancer and not have piles of conditions, even in a minion build. It is difficult for players without a lot of experience to tell the difference between a true conditionmancer and many other spec’s. In power builds, Spite extends condition duration and has fire. Terror is more like a condition than a crit build and all builds have DS with Torment. Hybrid builds are heavy on conditions but may be difficult to tell that they are glass cannons given DS and higher health. Even MM can lay on conditions thickly.

When players complain about conditionmancers, I suspect all Necromancer builds apply. Not bringing condi-cleanse, extra tough/vit, and combat mobility skills to a fight is poor planning.

The funny part is when people take sPvP experience and apply it to WvW like omg condi-heavy meta as if condi’s havent always been better in WvW because of food and dealing with conditions havent been better in WvW because of food.

Mesmers old glamour confusion bell should bring back peoples memories but that build was not even close to that good in sPvP but I never heard omg condi metas nerf pl0x.

sas.6483:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

sas.6483:

Why do people complain about necro?

…

1) False. If you get stomped in a 1v1, you’re doing it very wrong. Throwing up Spectral Armor and going into DS can really easily keep you alive. Add in the fact that Doom can be casted while CCed and how damaging you are, it’s easy to stay alive. Your defense is counterpressure.
2) ??? It’s because Necromancer is dipping heavily into two parts of the trinity. It has high CC and high Damage. Anything that dips too much into two or is EXTREME in 1 is pretty OP. For example, Spirit Ranger is high Support and Damage. Air Spike Ele is extreme in the damage area.
3) Heartseeker doesn’t CC you. It’s also an incredibly easy to pick out animation. If you look at a LOT of the necro skills, the animations are very similar and hard to pick out. Not to mention the chain can be done from 1,200 range away. Furthermore, if you HS spam, you run out of initiative, which basically puts everything on cooldown. This doesn’t happen with necromancers.
4) Even if you spec condiclears, you need a TON of them to face a necro. Signet of spite? Two marks? All of these put up crazy amounts of conditions. As for berserkers, yeah, they deserve to die quick, but also remember that conditions ignore armor.

I recommend actually going and taking a look at the definition of a cooldown and what the actual cooldowns are for necro skills, and what the typical builds / utility skill combinations are. Then, look up what CC skills are available for other classes and do a comparison. If you still feel like complaining, you can go back a few patches and see what actually changed as far as necro condition application / damage to make condi necros supposedly so OP. I think what you find will be surprising and possibly informative for you.

Or just keep on moaning about how unfair things are. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

That is the best non-response I’ve ever seen. Congrats.

What changed was that necros gained the ability to kill people effectively with the same poorly telegraphed skills. If a build doesn’t kill, it’s not as big of a deal that it’s poorly telegraphed. Now that it can wreck people, the fact that staff, doom and signet of spite are so powerful matter.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

What changed was that necros gained the ability to kill people effectively

Quoting to reveal the true, bottom line cause for necro QQ.

sas.6483:

Bhawb.7408:

Why do people find Necromancers OP? Because there is one spec right now that is.

We should have a slumber party. You can tell me a story about the OP necro that signet of spite-dhuumfire-epidemic-terror bombed a point with five berserker thieves circle jerking on it. Then we can go watch Phantaram’s video and cry a little about necro survivability. Maybe then we can eat some pizza or something, and watch a 1vX roaming thief video and gush about the true meaning of skill.

omg first good laugh in long time.

it’s no surprise it came at bawbs expense, hes been paroting the same terror dhum OP for weeks now

The Gates Assassin.9827:

That is the best non-response I’ve ever seen. Congrats.

What changed was that necros gained the ability to kill people effectively with the same poorly telegraphed skills. If a build doesn’t kill, it’s not as big of a deal that it’s poorly telegraphed. Now that it can wreck people, the fact that staff, doom and signet of spite are so powerful matter.

Ok giant hand waves aint enough for you on all strong offensive skills, we added a massive promo art on the main/only reliable defensive cooldown of a giant skull in his bathrobe with a scythe.
Oh still not enough how about nice glowy hands and sparkles on the ground.
Still not enough? Ok then we will make black leather stripes roll around then necro when he uses a fight changer (heal, epi, etc).
Or even better on anything that isnt a charr, 3 core guardian casts have the exact same animation

Im sorry but if these character changing animations are “poorly telegraphed”, then the mesmers have no indications of skill cases (ok true most are instant, but the differences between damage shatters is what shape the small white sparkles are in the pink explosion), eles got barely any and the fact that 80% of theif skills that actually kill are stealthed or have the identical animation as their normal attacks doesnt help your case either.

All people that think necromancer are OP are people that have not played top 500 EU/NA as a necromancer, or they have played top 500 and suck… got killed by a necromancer… and now they want that to stop.

Just got killed by a warrior after i fought him for 20 seconds… out of the 20 seconds 10 he was completely invulnerable to my attacks… and out of those 10 when he was vulnerable 6 seconds i was stunned while being 1 shoted at the same time… Even so i manage to stand my ground and wanted to chase him… he went outside of LOS faster then i could catch him… when i turned around he was back into me with a 6 seconds stun 1 shot.

Learn to play people… in top 500 most fights are 70% invulnerable 30% i kill you instantly… necromancer doesn’t have either of these.

I’ve seen so many people that play much worse then me do so much better…
3 HSing thieves ?… 2 stun locking warriors… 4 rangers…

So many classes even if you kill them every single time you still lose, because they are simply too fast, they don’t fight you… they just take all your points… good luck stopping that if they move twice as fast as you, and in some cases the thieves teleport makes them move 3 times as fast.
You can’t really kill them unless you one shot them… since they insta stealth and run pass you… take your point… and by time you get to that point they have taken 2 more points.

Necromancer has strong damage, not stronger then many other classes… but still lacks all the other aspects. After all the PvP i’ve done recently… i believe necromancer still won’t have a place at competition level play.

If some of you still don’t understand any of these… you either will in time after you got to end game PvP… or you don’t want to understand this on purpose.

Nemesis.8593:

All people that think necromancer are OP are people that have not played top 500 EU/NA as a necromancer, or they have played top 500 and suck… got killed by a necromancer… and now they want that to stop.

Just got killed by a warrior after i fought him for 20 seconds… out of the 20 seconds 10 he was completely invulnerable to my attacks… and out of those 10 when he was vulnerable 6 seconds i was stunned while being 1 shoted at the same time… Even so i manage to stand my ground and wanted to chase him… he went outside of LOS faster then i could catch him… when i turned around he was back into me with a 6 seconds stun 1 shot.

Learn to play people… in top 500 most fights are 70% invulnerable 30% i kill you instantly… necromancer doesn’t have either of these.

I’ve seen so many people that play much worse then me do so much better…
3 HSing thieves ?… 2 stun locking warriors… 4 rangers…

So many classes even if you kill them every single time you still lose, because they are simply too fast, they don’t fight you… they just take all your points… good luck stopping that if they move twice as fast as you, and in some cases the thieves teleport makes them move 3 times as fast.
You can’t really kill them unless you one shot them… since they insta stealth and run pass you… take your point… and by time you get to that point they have taken 2 more points.

Necromancer has strong damage, not stronger then many other classes… but still lacks all the other aspects. After all the PvP i’ve done recently… i believe necromancer still won’t have a place at competition level play.

If some of you still don’t understand any of these… you either will in time after you got to end game PvP… or you don’t want to understand this on purpose.

^This.. And nothing else..

But i guess we’ll catch another nerfbat in the face next week.

Are they OP right now? No, although still strong. But pre-nerfs, the patch right after we got that buff, saying “it was only below top 500” is hilariously false. EVERYONE in the top 500 knew they were OP, why do you think there was a Necromancer on 90% of teams the day after the patch, when there was only a few Necromancers (only really, really good ones) before? They even forced players to swap their class over to Necro from others because the offensive pressure you could put out was complete and utter BS, just like they do every time something OP comes out. We were hardcore #1 FotM along with Spirit rangers, and are still up there, although our sustained damage is slightly reduced (and yet our burst, the biggest problem, they basically didn’t touch).

Necros not viable in competitive? Wut? Did you not watch the most recent tournament where the majority of teams ran a Necro? The top team in NA has Zombify, who you might remember as a Necromancer (even though he’s a hipster necro who played it before it was cool to).

Why condi Necros are OP:

1.) Indistinct animations on powerful skills
2.) Condi application rate is too high (read: insanely high)
3.) Terror damage is insanely high, and being a control and damage source it benefits two fold from condition duration. It is the only CC of it’s kind.
4.) High Sustainability. While I don’t feel that our new found sustainability is unwarranted, I do feel that it is too high when combined with the high damage output.

The one fix that would be a huge step in the right direction IMO would be to address Terror. As much as I love destroying someone with a Doom-snipe, Terror just does not belong in the game IMO. It is counterintuitive to the intended design and use of Necro Fear abilities – specially in the case of Doom at close range. Its damage needs to be nerfed by 50% or better or simply removed (I vote for the latter). As fun as it may be to destroy people with, it simply does not promote fun and healthy game play. Removing it wouldn’t be a one-stop fix per se but it would take care of the bulk of the problem. The other being more involved as the condi application rate is simply too high with the minimal investment required. Bleed durations in particular should be toned down substantially. They could start by taking a good look at the Scepter Auto Attack.

Terror damage is the only CC that deals damage, and that damage is too high?

What about every attack in the game that knocks you down/stuns/daze/blow out?

I’ve been hit, in TPvP stats, for 4k by a hammer warrior with his knockdown strike. At least with Terror (which deals what, 1,3k max (full condition stack) each second for a max of 5 second if you blow out all skills) I can use a stunbreak in between to cancel part of that damage, or even Stability to totally negate it before it happens. In the case of the hammer strike, you still take it in the face with stability, you just dont get knock down.

If you compare every skills that applies a CC effect from every class, you’ll see that Terror, while it is a good one, has plenty of counters and ways to negate it’s damage, and need to be traited. Some other classes’ weapon skills offer better controls and direct damage, which you can’t prevent even with a stunbreaker.

You guys make me laugh… especially you hackks…

From what you just wrote it is clear to me that you never played necromancer, not in depth at least, you probably play some other class and you get crushed by necromancers (among others) and since people say necro OP because it can actually fight back… why not try to remove one of the classes that owns you entirely.

I say it’s not OP, some people say it is OP… but you guys forget that what we say is very little relevant… statistics and world wide feedback will be what dictates buffs and nerfs, our personal opinion is irrelevant.

Yes… many people made necromancers, many people still think necromancers are OP and they play them in mass…
… and then. I have tons of these if you guys want to see, i might just make an album.

One day you guys that say necromancer OP will meet some skilled warriors, thieves or mesmers… then your jaws will drop, and you’ll be on their forums not this one…
In time… yes… all in due time…

Oh… and hackks one more thing, you said “terror damage is insanely high”.
Can you please teach me how terror can do this ?
Because… you know… terror damage is OP, so anything that is stronger then terror damage is “OPerrrr”. So i’m guessing that terror can do a lot more damage then that… that’s why terror needs to be nerfed and not any other skill in the game.

Logic = always a good idea.

hackks.3687:

Why condi Necros are OP:

1.) Indistinct animations on powerful skills
2.) Condi application rate is too high (read: insanely high)
3.) Terror damage is insanely high, and being a control and damage source it benefits two fold from condition duration. It is the only CC of it’s kind.
4.) High Sustainability. While I don’t feel that our new found sustainability is unwarranted, I do feel that it is too high when combined with the high damage output.

The one fix that would be a huge step in the right direction IMO would be to address Terror. As much as I love destroying someone with a Doom-snipe, Terror just does not belong in the game IMO. It is counterintuitive to the intended design and use of Necro Fear abilities – specially in the case of Doom at close range. Its damage needs to be nerfed by 50% or better or simply removed (I vote for the latter). As fun as it may be to destroy people with, it simply does not promote fun and healthy game play. Removing it wouldn’t be a one-stop fix per se but it would take care of the bulk of the problem. The other being more involved as the condi application rate is simply too high with the minimal investment required. Bleed durations in particular should be toned down substantially. They could start by taking a good look at the Scepter Auto Attack.

Am I missing something cause when I looked at Nemesis video he basically explains that you couldnt kill anyone because people could heal through your damage. He even has a pretty long video going over it with examples it was probably him who helped to get the terror change. Then people complained about condition necro in PvE bleed caps etc so they gave necro burning.

All people that think necromancer are OP are people that have not played top 500 EU/NA as a necromancer, or they have played top 500 and suck… got killed by a necromancer… and now they want that to stop.

I don’t know a single player i consider worth listening to that doesnt think necro is op(me included)

Learn to play people… in top 500 most fights are 70% invulnerable 30% i kill you instantly… necromancer doesn’t have either of these.

necro has enough aoe pressure to force all this invuls though without even realy focusing someone aswell as good cc options and being tanky enough to sustain for some time.

After all the PvP i’ve done recently… i believe necromancer still won’t have a place at competition level play.

actually necro is already a part of competitive paly and there is no competitive team playing without one.

though tbh alot of QQ is prolly because death recap is bugged and will show double dmg from all conditions.
Ye necro is op, but so is probably every single other class and nerfing necro without nerfing other classes also is prolly no good idea.

Bhawb.7408:

How do you heal through damage when they just spiked you with 15 stacks of bleeds, burning, all the extra conditions, and then feared you for 2 seconds, and can chain fear you for longer if you don’t start pumping out those stun breaks?

Wasn’t that before necromancers got buffs before terror, and burning and extra cover conditions.

I didnt play necromancer back then but I watched this video from nemesis when I was learning about necro’s

What I get is before buffs you could just kite the necro and then come back to engage again if you chose to and could stall enough to heal through the damage that the necro was putting out basically the necro didn’t have enough condition pressure to kill smart players now after buffs necro has that condi pressure before it was better to take a engineer if you wanted to condi pressure because it was better in everyway when filling that role. Now there is a choice as the necro has greater condi pressure than a engi but doesn’t have the escapes that a engi has.

My point was that people believe they can just roll a necromancer and win… and you get teams filled with necromancers which get crushed by people with experience.
That is my point all along, if you have experience you’ll crush the necromancers…

Seriously now… if necromancers were as OP as you guys make them to be, 40% of the community would be player necromancers by now. If 1 necromancer is so OP, people would quickly learn that teams of 4-5 necromancers = always win… this trend would have spread like fire… like a new gold exploit…

All this talk back and forth doesn’t do anyone any good…
If we are truly OP we’ll get nerfed… if we get nerfed again i’ll play something else.

Also i climbed into top 500 without using any exploits, not going to give out any details… but yesterday i found out something really “beautiful” about the “pro” sitting in top 10 that have 100% win ratio… you guys are so good aren’t you ?
Your guys were so PRO that you got into good teams 100% of the time, no leavers or afkers, or even better… you guys are so good that you carried the team… probably using necromancers.

What i am saying is that there are classes… i’ll give an example here…

A warrior can stun lock up to 6 seconds and one shot you while he is doing that, he can also be invulnerable to all my damage for about 10 seconds… sometimes you can kite well enough to survive all of that and now it’s your turn, and you proceed to kill that warrior… but he is gone, you can’t follow him even with swiftness… he is too fast.

One of my favorite classes to beat are thieves… i lose to thieves like 5-10% of the time, but at the same time i don’t win vs thieves. Apparently thieves like necromancers as well, because each time a thief sees me he immediately, without hesitation goes for me… casually even, he doesn’t use everything he has… thinks me an easy target (why is that i wonder… because we are OP ?).
Anyway… i kill him or almost kill him because he stealths and then he avoids me the entire game. Abusing mobility he can afford to take a capture point while i fight some god kitten bunker engineer for 30 seconds, and he still makes it in time to 2v1 me.

Fast classes such as warriors, thieves, mesmers… can disengage and avoid conflict if it doesn’t suit them, they can win via points… you end up running around for points, and when you are already behind they can perform focus fire timed attacks which you can’t escape. 1 war 1 thief 1 mesmer = dead. Meanwhile necromancers can’t play the same card…
We can’t avoid combat and go for points, we can’t escape focus fire while avoiding combat and going for points…
Mesmers are more or less like thieves… a bit lower damage, a bit less chance to escape but MOA.

Necromancers would win more games if it was a deathmatch, but it’s not… and other classes can reinforce faster and survive focus fire 10 times better.

I would literally pay all my gold to witch ever necromancer can survive focus fire from 3 of my friends. You’ll be dead in max 4 seconds with no chance of escaping. Where a thief, elementalists, warrior or mesmer could actually survive that… easy even…

Necromancers are only strong if people with same skill or lower skill are stupid enough to remain in the fight, but you always have the option of leaving and there is nothing we can do about it. Also by leaving you provide faster support elsewhere… something we can’t do…
So even when we win… we actually lose because the necromancer’s team is outnumbered somewhere else.

I’ve said too much already, next month when i return into the country… maybe i can get into top 100, and i will start live-streaming… so in time i can save a lot more moments that i find relevant to balance. Namely thieves almost 1 shoting me from stealth, failing to do so because i can counter… then teleporting on the ramp on top of me and assisting in one shoting someone else… meanwhile i take 20 seconds to get there to help as i move aaaaaaaaaaall the way around, by the time i get there it’s 1v2… if i stay where i am… they come to me for a 1v2… GG

edit: one last thing, and i don’t mean this as something offensive… i am trying to find you on the leaderboards from my friend list, i added you and i am checking NA leaderboards and i don’t see you on them. What placement are you at Bhawb ?