Guild Wars 2

Engineer has the same trait in the Adept line and no one is crying OP over it.

Yet I see necros crying that Dhuumfire is OP in the Terror build.

Engineer doesn’t have access to the OP dhuumfire+terror combo.

Dhuumfire is not OP
terror damage is.

It isn’t hard to apply conditions on them while they are feared.

vicious.5683:

Dhuumfire is not OP
terror damage is.

You are clearly in deny my friend. The combinaison of dhuumfire+terror is the cause of the current inbalance in the current metagame. Based on your post history, you are basically one of the rare one who doesn’t recognize it.

Yeah I don’t think that Dhuumfire itself is OP at all.
It was probably intended mostly for Hybrid builds, which atm aren’t used much.
Dagger/Dagger with Well of Corruption for example.

The new Doom Fear duration + Spectral Wall buff + Signet of Spite buff + Dhuumfire = all that stuff just adds-up into a mix that allows for very OP builds.
And let’s not forget Greater Marks making Marks unblockable.
Many Professions depend on blocks (more or less) and Marks just completely ignore them.

Honestly I don’t think that Dhuumfire needs a nerf.
I think that Terror does.

Terror doesn’t need that much damage anymore now that you can combine it with Torment and Burning.

If Dhuumfire got nerfed only the Terror builds would continue to use it, other builds wouldn’t bother touching it anymore.

Heavy CC+biggest damage on a single condition. Yeah right it’s not OP at all

vicious.5683:

Heavy CC+biggest damage on a single condition. Yeah right it’s not OP at all

Yes totally, I remember all those cry about terror nerf pre patch.

/sarcasm off.

Why don’t you also remember the great amount of necros out there before patch?

LastDay.3524:

Yeah I don’t think that Dhuumfire itself is OP at all.
It was probably intended mostly for Hybrid builds, which atm aren’t used much.
Dagger/Dagger with Well of Corruption for example.

The new Doom Fear duration + Spectral Wall buff + Signet of Spite buff + Dhuumfire = all that stuff just adds-up into a mix that allows for very OP builds.
And let’s not forget Greater Marks making Marks unblockable.
Many Professions depend on blocks (more or less) and Marks just completely ignore them.

Honestly I don’t think that Dhuumfire needs a nerf.
I think that Terror does.

Terror doesn’t need that much damage anymore now that you can combine it with Torment and Burning.

If Dhuumfire got nerfed only the Terror builds would continue to use it, other builds wouldn’t bother touching it anymore.

Your post leads me to think that you have no idea what a condition necromancer should be all about- Hint: not an engineer clone nor a dhuumfire +terror bursty condition spammer. Nerfing terror will force every condition necromancers to play the cookie cutter build. Please name any VIABLE CONDITION builds other than 30/20… that use dhuumfire without terror. Now name me any VIABLE CONDITION builds that use terror without dhuumfire. Exactly.

vicious.5683:

Why don’t you also remember the great amount of necros out there before patch?

I will take you seriously when you aknowledge that dhuumfire+terror combo is the current problem. Not terror alone, not dhuumfire alone.There is enough streams out there that further showcase the tragic OP dhuumfire+terror combo. Until then, keep doing it, I love it.

Is a good burst condition build, and its fine, i think is the first time in the game that necros shine and all are talking about it. In the last 10 months only exists in the game 6 classes, and 2 sparrings (Engineer, Necros), but now both of the sparrings shine and i am so happy for that. Anyway, all the nice builds have a form that u can counter it, the problem is the people dont want to find and instead of that they are asking to Arenanet for nerf.

I see so much QQ in this post, why dont you go to the other forums to:

- QQ, i almost kill the guardian and his heal is to OP!
- QQ! that thief put 18k on me with a backstab.
- QQ, that ele never die!!
- QQ, That one hundred blades one shot me, it hurts!
- QQ, I cant find the real mesmer and their phantoms are hitingme so hard

Poplolita.2638:

Engineer doesn’t have access to the OP dhuumfire+terror combo.

This. Dhuumfire synergizes with Terror very well, possibly too well. Terror by itself was never an issue prior to Dhuumfire, and Dhuumfire without Terror is not an issue.

Dhuumfire+terror, on top of the normal condis and AoE pressure we can apply is what is too strong. Think of it this way, in the standard 30/30/10 build you deal 678 dps with burning and 1173 with terror. Dhuumfire has a base duration of 5.2 seconds (and generally people have 10% on their runes, so 5.6) meaning it ticks 5-6 times, for 3390-4068 damage (assuming 1400 condition damage, which is just a tiny bit lower than common), and Terror is easy to get to 4 ticks, or 4692 damage. Which means just those two conditions alone deal 8082-8760 damage. Throw in your bleeds, AoE cleave from a team, w/e and you can pretty easily murder someone with that combo.

Bhawb.7408:

Dhuumfire+terror, on top of the normal condis and AoE pressure we can apply is what is too strong. Think of it this way, in the standard 30/30/10 build you deal 678 dps with burning and 1173 with terror. Dhuumfire has a base duration of 5.2 seconds (and generally people have 10% on their runes, so 5.6) meaning it ticks 5-6 times, for 3390-4068 damage (assuming 1400 condition damage, which is just a tiny bit lower than common), and Terror is easy to get to 4 ticks, or 4692 damage. Which means just those two conditions alone deal 8082-8760 damage. Throw in your bleeds, AoE cleave from a team, w/e and you can pretty easily murder someone with that combo.

U are supposing the top of the damage, dont incluid Stun Breakers, Runes of Melandru, Cleansing Conditions?? In the game exists a lot of Stun Breakers, practicaly every class can clean condition. In your example it seems u are playing against a person who dont have hands! -.-!

Poplolita.2638:

Please name any builds other than 30/20… that use dhuumfire without terror.

Axe/Dagger+Staff
30/10/10/20/0 Rampager gear.

Works in PvE, but zerker is just superior.
Dhuumfire helps it catch up somewhat, however.
Further work needed.
Would be better if Greater Marks wasn’t a must-have.

Dagger/Dagger+Staff
30/30/10/0/0

Dhuumfire helps raise the damage while taking advantage of both Crit Chance and Condition duration.
Withering Precision allows the Necro to stay in close range for longer, especially when combined with Enfeebling Blood.

Unfortunatly not very good.
Necro’s survivability needs work.
It will likely be a very good build once Necro’s defenses get buffs.

Poplolita.2638:

Now name me any builds that use terror without dhuumfire.

10/30/10/0/20
This is assuming that Anet splits Fear’s damage between Master of Terror and Terror.

0/30/20/0/20
This is assuming Greater Marks becomes a Master trait.
…although that’d mess up many builds.

Really my answer here is just theorycraft.
There are so many ways to nerf Terror.

Poplolita.2638:

Your post leads me to think that you have no idea what a condition necromancer should be all about.

Slow attrition.
That’s just not viable atm because Necromancer doesn’t have enough survivability.
Perhaps that will be fixed in the future, but probably not anytime soon.

LastDay.3524:

Poplolita.2638:

Please name any builds other than 30/20… that use dhuumfire without terror.

Axe/Dagger+Staff
30/10/10/20/0 Rampager gear.

Works in PvE, but zerker is just superior.
Dhuumfire helps it catch up somewhat, however.
Further work needed.
Would be better if Greater Marks wasn’t a must-have.

Dagger/Dagger+Staff
30/30/10/0/0

Dhuumfire helps raise the damage while taking advantage of both Crit Chance and Condition duration.
Withering Precision allows the Necro to stay in close range for longer, especially when combined with Enfeebling Blood.

Unfortunatly not very good.
Necro’s survivability needs work.
It will likely be a very good build once Necro’s defenses get buffs.

Poplolita.2638:

Now name me any builds that use terror without dhuumfire.

10/30/10/0/20
This is assuming that Anet splits Fear’s damage between Master of Terror and Terror.

0/30/20/0/20
This is assuming Greater Marks becomes a Master trait.
…although that’d mess up many builds.

Really my answer here is just theorycraft.
There are so many ways to nerf Terror.

Poplolita.2638:

Your post leads me to think that you have no idea what a condition necromancer should be all about.

Slow attrition.
That’s just not viable atm because Necromancer doesn’t have enough survivability.
Perhaps that will be fixed in the future, but probably not anytime soon.

I was hoping you will make the proper conclusion. None of the builds you posted with dhuumfire… are condition builds. Or even viable in tpvp.

Poplolita.2638:

LastDay.3524:

Poplolita.2638:

Please name any builds other than 30/20… that use dhuumfire without terror.

Axe/Dagger+Staff
30/10/10/20/0 Rampager gear.

Works in PvE, but zerker is just superior.
Dhuumfire helps it catch up somewhat, however.
Further work needed.
Would be better if Greater Marks wasn’t a must-have.

Dagger/Dagger+Staff
30/30/10/0/0

Dhuumfire helps raise the damage while taking advantage of both Crit Chance and Condition duration.
Withering Precision allows the Necro to stay in close range for longer, especially when combined with Enfeebling Blood.

Unfortunatly not very good.
Necro’s survivability needs work.
It will likely be a very good build once Necro’s defenses get buffs.

Poplolita.2638:

Now name me any builds that use terror without dhuumfire.

10/30/10/0/20
This is assuming that Anet splits Fear’s damage between Master of Terror and Terror.

0/30/20/0/20
This is assuming Greater Marks becomes a Master trait.
…although that’d mess up many builds.

Really my answer here is just theorycraft.
There are so many ways to nerf Terror.

Poplolita.2638:

Your post leads me to think that you have no idea what a condition necromancer should be all about.

Slow attrition.
That’s just not viable atm because Necromancer doesn’t have enough survivability.
Perhaps that will be fixed in the future, but probably not anytime soon.

I was hoping you will make the proper conclusion. None of the builds you posted with dhuumfire… are condition builds. Or even viable in tpvp.

In TPvP noone complain about the necros cause noone use necros in TPvP cause of :

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Why-necromancers-don-t-quite-cut-it-by-Zzod

The QQ comes from sPvP and that is why all of people comes to SPvP to do damage and dont care about Survability, Stunbreakers, CC or Cleansing Condition, only offensive skills.

For that people is most confortable ask for a nerf that learn to play against that

Poplolita.2638:

None of the builds you posted with dhuumfire… are condition builds. Or even viable in tpvp.

Of course not. They are Hybrid builds.
Dhuumfire was intended as something to buff Hybrid builds, I’m pretty certain.
That’s why it’s Condition Damage in the Power trait tree.

And as you said they aren’t viable.
That’s exactly why they got buffed by the addition of Dhuumfire.
I ran hybrid in PvE for a loooong time.
It’s fun but not as good at Zerker/Knights mix with new Axe Mastery and Life Blast (in PvE) or running Terror. (in PvP)

Nerfing Dhuumfire would make Hybrids even worse than they already are.
That’s why I don’t think that it’ll get nerfed.

Dhuumfire was intended to make Hybrids stronger, not make Terror more Powerful.
I’d bet that Anet just didn’t expect people to skip Master of Terror for 30 Spite.
I expect Terror nerfs to involve lowered damage and trait position changes.

I have no idea what they are gonna switch around, but whatever it is it will likely hurt Terror builds and bolster Hybrids somehow.

Dejavu.4638:

U are supposing the top of the damage, dont incluid Stun Breakers, Runes of Melandru, Cleansing Conditions?? In the game exists a lot of Stun Breakers, practicaly every class can clean condition. In your example it seems u are playing against a person who dont have hands! -.-!

Dhuumfire can do its damage every 10 seconds, and you have a 2 second fear every 20. I’m assuming you know how to play a condition build and bait out their stun breakers and cleanses, and then burst them with 15 bleeds, terror, and burning and laugh maniacally as they die.

I highly doubt that Terror will get another nerf (yes, another one. Moving it to Master Tier was a nerf, though a very justified one). When you have one thing that is quite safe in the game already, then add something else and now you have an overpowering combo, what does that tell you?

It tells you the new thing is the problem in the combination. I fully expect the change to be with Dhuumfire rather than nerfing Terror. No idea what said change will be, but that is my expectation.

Poplolita.2638:

vicious.5683:

Why don’t you also remember the great amount of necros out there before patch?

I will take you seriously when you aknowledge that dhuumfire+terror combo is the current problem. Not terror alone, not dhuumfire alone.There is enough streams out there that further showcase the tragic OP dhuumfire+terror combo. Until then, keep doing it, I love it.

Yep you right, its the combo. But Dhuumfire is about 1/3 of that combo, terror is 2/3 of total effect.

Bhawb.7408:

Dejavu.4638:

U are supposing the top of the damage, dont incluid Stun Breakers, Runes of Melandru, Cleansing Conditions?? In the game exists a lot of Stun Breakers, practicaly every class can clean condition. In your example it seems u are playing against a person who dont have hands! -.-!

Dhuumfire can do its damage every 10 seconds, and you have a 2 second fear every 20. I’m assuming you know how to play a condition build and bait out their stun breakers and cleanses, and then burst them with 15 bleeds, terror, and burning and laugh maniacally as they die.

Ok i agree with u but i ask, Why necro cant have a burst condition build in this game if all the classes have powerful Burst builds? And if u ask which class, go to the forum of thief for an example, 18k backstab

Thieves can do that to a single person and the entire backstab build was based around Mug, which can no longer crit (which means 18k mug/backstab combos don’t exist to my knowledge). When a thief can 18k backstab an entire team then they are on the level of the damage you are looking at with Necro.

vicious.5683:

Dhuumfire is not OP
terror damage is.

yet everyone is only complaining about it now.
terror damage has always been like this.

Lightsbane.9012:

vicious.5683:

Dhuumfire is not OP
terror damage is.

yet everyone is only complaining about it now.
terror damage has always been like this.

No one is complaining about Dhuumfire. Ppl are crying for condi spam and fear not allowing them do anything.
Necros, using terror, are the ones that complain about our burning.
If you think the combo its too strong, guess what, stop using it. Let the noobs use that combo and call it the noob build, like the hearth seeker spam of thieves.

vicious.5683:

Yep you right, its the combo. But Dhuumfire is about 1/3 of that combo, terror is 2/3 of total effect.

Just because it ticks for less damage doesn’t mean that the total amount isn’t more. Unlike burning you can’t have a 50%+ fear uptime on your opponent.

vicious.5683:

No one is complaining about Dhuumfire.

Really? -.-

vicious.5683:

If you think the combo its too strong, guess what, stop using it. Let the noobs use that combo and call it the noob build, like the hearth seeker spam of thieves.

Right… because that’s what people do, pick weaker builds on purpose.

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned so far, but Dhuumfire also adds yet another condition for people to remove. If it never existed people would remove more of our torment and bleed stacks.

I also think it needs to be said that if they nerf anything it should be Dhuumfire. Like it was previously mentioned Mug on Thieves took a huge hit and no one takes it anymore. I don’t want Terror to be hit the same way. I don’t want to run around hoping I get some RNG proc instead of actively controlling my damage. Conditionmancer will be far less fun if they decide to nerf Terror and nerf it hard.

Personally I find all this a bit funny.
I currently love running around as a power necro in sPvP, as there’s all these people who hear condi necro is OP. Nothing more satisfying than handing all there conditions back.
Or a Well of Power under team mates…

Anyway, the dev’s did say… They added ‘pressure’. That it’s getting balanced, prob in the ‘less fear ticks’/less total lock down.
They also say, they are going to do more for necro attrition.

So, let’s take a look on the patch changes:
- Terror moved to Master tier
- Dhuumfire added
- Torment added
- Spectral Wall now fears your opponent
- Doom now fears for 1.5s

Those are pretty much the changes which affect the current Necro FotM build.
One, two or three of them are too much.

As you can see, Terror damage was untouched. The only thing which can increase the Terror damage is that half a second on Doom, which doesn’t really matter that much since it was counterbalanced by the Sigil of Paralyzation change.

Spectral Wall is avoidable by any non-braindead player, as any other line skills.

Dhuumfire isn’t the problem, as people are pointing out here.

Torment are only 3 stacks, whose damage is equivalent to 5 bleeds at best.

So, the “real” buff to fear/terror is the .3 duration coming from Doom at close range.
That’s the incredibly powerful and gamebreaking buff that made Terror so OP.

Really?

sorrow.2364:

So, let’s take a look on the patch changes:
- Terror moved to Master tier
- Dhuumfire added
- Torment added
- Spectral Wall now fears your opponent
- Doom now fears for 1.5s

Those are pretty much the changes which affect the current Necro FotM build.
One, two or three of them are too much.

As you can see, Terror damage was untouched. The only thing which can increase the Terror damage is that half a second on Doom, which doesn’t really matter that much since it was counterbalanced by the Sigil of Paralyzation change.

Spectral Wall is avoidable by any non-braindead player, as any other line skills.

Dhuumfire isn’t the problem, as people are pointing out here.

Torment are only 3 stacks, whose damage is equivalent to 5 bleeds at best.

So, the “real” buff to fear/terror is the .3 duration coming from Doom at close range.
That’s the incredibly powerful and gamebreaking buff that made Terror so OP.

Really?

Thank you, that’s exactly what I was about to say! Then you see those people who say Fear + Fire is the issue, which means the player needs to go full spite/curses barely having any survivability and barely any LF regeneration.

sorrow.2364:

Spectral Wall is avoidable by any non-braindead player, as any other line skills.

You don’t need to have people voluntarily walk into it.
You can Fear people with Doom and/or Reaper’s Mark and then place it on their way.

.5 second extra from Doom, 1 second extra from Spectral Wall.
When both are compounded by 50% extra condition duration it’s actually a quite noticeable buff just by itself.

Necro can apply Bleed, Blind, Burning, Chilled, Cripple, Fear, Poison, Torment and Weakness extremely fast.

Most condition removal skills remove 1 or 2 conditions at a time, so this insane load of condis slapped on someone is very deadly.
It forces people to bring heavy condition removal just to deal with Necros specifically, despite it weakening their builds overall.

Then once they use their condi cleanses and have them on cooldown you just throw in more conditions, Doom, Reaper’s Mark, Spectral Wall to stack Fear duration and they just die.

sorrow.2364:

So, let’s take a look on the patch changes:
- Terror moved to Master tier
- Dhuumfire added
- Torment added
- Spectral Wall now fears your opponent
- Doom now fears for 1.5s

Those are pretty much the changes which affect the current Necro FotM build.
One, two or three of them are too much.

As you can see, Terror damage was untouched. The only thing which can increase the Terror damage is that half a second on Doom, which doesn’t really matter that much since it was counterbalanced by the Sigil of Paralyzation change.

Spectral Wall is avoidable by any non-braindead player, as any other line skills.

Dhuumfire isn’t the problem, as people are pointing out here.

Torment are only 3 stacks, whose damage is equivalent to 5 bleeds at best.

So, the “real” buff to fear/terror is the .3 duration coming from Doom at close range.
That’s the incredibly powerful and gamebreaking buff that made Terror so OP.

Really?

None of those are an issue alone. Anything OP that has existed in the past, has been OP because of multiple abilities working together. Dhuumfire is about 4k damage over 6 seconds every 10 seconds. If you get feared twice during the burn duration. You’re looking to add another 3k damage at the least. You’ll probably have bleeding and poison on you as well. Dhuumfire and Terror together would be very strong even without Torment.

You also add in the fact that Necros need to spec 30 into Spite to get Dhuumfire, so now they have some oomph on top of their normal attacks. Life Blast and Life Transfer doing decent damage. Flesh Golem auto hitting for over 1k and has a knockdown. Tainted Shackles also does ok damage without including Torment, with the potential to immobilize. These give Necro a ton of pressure while being able to avoid damage through CC and other mechanics.( knockdown, fear, immobilize, blind, DS, weakness).

I recently picked up my Necro again after refusing to play it since the buffs. It’s almost sickening how strong it is going for a mostly offensive build. Spectral Wall is not so easily avoided. In certain lighting it’s kitten near invisible. Especially with so many particle effects floating around. It also gives Necros a viable means to escape. Drop it on point in a 4v4 aoe fight, and it has the potential to do tons of damage, all the while causing your opponents to lose control of movement.

Dhuumfire and Terror both need to be tuned just a little. It’s just too much damage.

LastDay.3524:

sorrow.2364:

Spectral Wall is avoidable by any non-braindead player, as any other line skills.

You don’t need to have people voluntarily walk into it.
You can Fear people with Doom and/or Reaper’s Mark and then place it on their way.

.5 second extra from Doom, 1 second extra from Spectral Wall.
When both are compounded by 50% extra condition duration it’s actually a quite noticeable buff just by itself.

Necro can apply Bleed, Blind, Burning, Chilled, Cripple, Fear, Poison, Torment and Weakness extremely fast.

Most condition removal skills remove 1 or 2 conditions at a time, so this insane load of condis slapped on someone is very deadly.
It forces people to bring heavy condition removal just to deal with Necros specifically, despite it weakening their builds overall.

Then once they use their condi cleanses and have them on cooldown you just throw in more conditions, Doom, Reaper’s Mark, Spectral Wall to stack Fear duration and they just die.

True, but few points to keep in mind, one is that most of those conditions you mentioned haven’t changed from before, only fire and torment were added. Second, the person who is fighting the necromancer, won’t be standing still cleansing, he would be fighting back, and 30/30/10 is kind of squishy. Third point is that you need heavy condition cleansing against a conditionmaster, not all kinds of necromancers.

Yeah I haven’t heard many complaints about Power Necromancers.
It’s just the Condi build that’s OP.
I thought that was clear but perhaps it wasn’t.

Also it’s worth noting that Signet of Spite is insanely powerful now.

Copenhagen.7015:

Dhuumfire and Terror both need to be tuned just a little. It’s just too much damage.

No, it is just Dhuumfire that needs to go.
Necromancer already had access to high-damaging condition (Terror) and Dhuumfire surely doesn’t help Power/Hybrid build because they won’t never, never take Dhuumfire over Close to Death.
That trait should have never exsisted.

Toning down the damage of Terror, will completely destroy any non-Dhuumfire conditionmancer. Toning the damage of both, will still make Dhuumfire and Terror a must-pick in any condition damage build.

Terrormancers were reasonably strong before the patch, they just needed more way to defend themselves (weakness + spectral wall) and another condition which works as a cover (Torment).
They for sure didn’t need more damage.

sorrow.2364:

No, it is just Dhuumfire that needs to go.
Necromancer already had access to high-damaging condition (Terror) and Dhuumfire surely doesn’t help Power/Hybrid build because they won’t never, never take Dhuumfire over Close to Death.

I’d probably use it.
I’d use it for sure if it got buffed sufficiently.

Condition Damage is the primary stat of Carrion, so if you mix Carrion and Rampager (as I have) you have more Condition Damage than Power.
Sacrificing some Precision for more Condition Damage (and Vitality) is a pretty okay trade unless you are going for massive Bleed stacking or high Soul Reaping.

The hybrids have a somewhat disappointing amount of Condition stacking.
Dhuumfire helps with that a lot.
Hybrids still need more help, though.
Right now Power is better in PvE and Condi is better in PvP.

sorrow.2364:

Toning down the damage of Terror, will completely destroy any non-Dhuumfire conditionmancer.

That depends on how much it’s lowered and what other changes accompany it, but I’m a bit worried about it as well.

sorrow.2364:

Toning the damage of both, will still make Dhuumfire and Terror a must-pick in any condition damage build.

I think that this is the big problem.
Honestly (as I keep repeating) I believe that Dhuumfire was meant for Hybrids.

Arenanet likely expected Terror builds to require Master of Terror, but the Condition Duration from the Spite line just threw it off completely.

I believe that this is why they made Terror a Master trait.
If you had to use 20 in Curses, 20 in Soul Reaping and 10 in Death Magic you simply couldn’t pick both traits at once.
You’d miss exactly 10 points from Dhuumfire!

I expect Arenanet to further make this combo harder to achieve.
Maybe they’ll move Terror to GM, or even mess around with Greater Marks.
Or perhaps Dhuumfire gets moved deep into Blood Magic.
Whatever the case I don’t think that they want Terror Necros to have access to Dhuumfire.
They want them to be two separate things different builds use, or maybe a build using them both requires a very heavy sacrifice in something else.

sorrow.2364:

Terrormancers were reasonably strong before the patch, they just needed more way to defend themselves (weakness + spectral wall) and another condition which works as a cover (Torment).
They for sure didn’t need more damage.

This I definitely agree with.
Terrormancers didn’t really need more damage, they (and all Necro builds) need better defenses.

For a Profession that’s supposedly about “attrition” Necro sure has high damage and awful defenses…

OK, so here’s a neat option:
Terror nerf: instead of “fear deals damage”, let’s change that to “fear also inflicts 3 stacks of confusion for 4 seconds” or whatever the appropriate amount would be.
Dhuumfire nerf: instead of burning, change it to torment. One stack, three seconds, 100% on crit, 1s internal cooldown.
Both of these changes tone down the burst of the combo, and move damage around so it’s spread out more. You know, attrition, as it was meant to be.

Dhuumfire is fine… it’s really kind of a run-of-the-mill skill.

…but combined with fear it gets stupidly OP. Thief level of OP.

Fear needs to be nerfed into the ground.

I am of the opinion that the necromancer shouldn’t have access to a burst condition like burning at all.

what about WvW/Zerg vs Zerg ?

Ezeriel.9574:

Dhuumfire is fine… it’s really kind of a run-of-the-mill skill.

…but combined with fear it gets stupidly OP. Thief level of OP.

Fear needs to be nerfed into the ground.

If you want to ask for a nerf, at least, have the decency to back it up with a contructive post. Seriously, dat logic… I’m not even sure you tpvp.

flow.6043:

vicious.5683:

Yep you right, its the combo. But Dhuumfire is about 1/3 of that combo, terror is 2/3 of total effect.

Just because it ticks for less damage doesn’t mean that the total amount isn’t more. Unlike burning you can’t have a 50%+ fear uptime on your opponent.

vicious.5683:

No one is complaining about Dhuumfire.

Really? -.-

vicious.5683:

If you think the combo its too strong, guess what, stop using it. Let the noobs use that combo and call it the noob build, like the hearth seeker spam of thieves.

Right… because that’s what people do, pick weaker builds on purpose.

Why not? It’s all about getting fun with your play style.
I got bored with OP builds, like the terror one with burning, spectral wall etc etc.
Maybe you only get fun with this kind of builds, let me tell you something: you are one of the biggest noobs in this place for this kind of idea: “oh there is an OP build, let’s abuse it till necros get nerfed!! what? you want to nerf my terror build? Nerf Dhuumfire instead of terror, my heavy cc+high damage combo”

Just lame.

vicious.5683:

flow.6043:

vicious.5683:

Yep you right, its the combo. But Dhuumfire is about 1/3 of that combo, terror is 2/3 of total effect.

Just because it ticks for less damage doesn’t mean that the total amount isn’t more. Unlike burning you can’t have a 50%+ fear uptime on your opponent.

vicious.5683:

No one is complaining about Dhuumfire.

Really? -.-

vicious.5683:

If you think the combo its too strong, guess what, stop using it. Let the noobs use that combo and call it the noob build, like the hearth seeker spam of thieves.

Right… because that’s what people do, pick weaker builds on purpose.

Why not? It’s all about getting fun with your play style.
I got bored with OP builds, like the terror one with burning, spectral wall etc etc.
Maybe you only get fun with this kind of builds, let me tell you something: you are one of the biggest noobs in this place for this kind of idea: “oh there is an OP build, let’s abuse it till necros get nerfed!! what? you want to nerf my terror build? Nerf Dhuumfire instead of terror, my heavy cc+high damage combo”

Just lame.

Why would you cry not nerfing dhuumfire when you’re not even using 30/30/10/0/0 build? That’s like me crying for our minions build when I’m using a power build…

oh, that’s a brilliant question. I don’t want Dhuumfire nerfed because I use it.

it’s that enough reason or should I write a wall of text explaining it?

vicious.5683:

what? you want to nerf my terror build? Nerf Dhuumfire instead of terror

vicious.5683:

I don’t want Dhuumfire nerfed because I use it.

nice…

Don’t touch fear, just delete that stupid fire talent

tpvp has spoken

Poplolita.2638:

LastDay.3524:

Yeah I don’t think that Dhuumfire itself is OP at all.
It was probably intended mostly for Hybrid builds, which atm aren’t used much.
Dagger/Dagger with Well of Corruption for example.

The new Doom Fear duration + Spectral Wall buff + Signet of Spite buff + Dhuumfire = all that stuff just adds-up into a mix that allows for very OP builds.
And let’s not forget Greater Marks making Marks unblockable.
Many Professions depend on blocks (more or less) and Marks just completely ignore them.

Honestly I don’t think that Dhuumfire needs a nerf.
I think that Terror does.

Terror doesn’t need that much damage anymore now that you can combine it with Torment and Burning.

If Dhuumfire got nerfed only the Terror builds would continue to use it, other builds wouldn’t bother touching it anymore.

Your post leads me to think that you have no idea what a condition necromancer should be all about- Hint: not an engineer clone nor a dhuumfire +terror bursty condition spammer. Nerfing terror will force every condition necromancers to play the cookie cutter build. Please name any VIABLE CONDITION builds other than 30/20… that use dhuumfire without terror. Now name me any VIABLE CONDITION builds that use terror without dhuumfire. Exactly.

I don’t use Dhuumfire and my build is not built around terror. I use fear to allow myself more time for CD on skills and allow endurance to build up to dodge a little more. Drives me nuts when someone speced for terror burns his CD and can’t do anything anymore but die in place. Too many people jumped on the bandwagon.

It seems we never happy, before the patch we complained that we were too nerfed and now we argue about being overpowered one way or another. I have never seen another class do that. If need be ANet will make their own decision. Just play the game and enjoy while it last.

Tears.5627:

Poplolita.2638:

LastDay.3524:

Yeah I don’t think that Dhuumfire itself is OP at all.
It was probably intended mostly for Hybrid builds, which atm aren’t used much.
Dagger/Dagger with Well of Corruption for example.

The new Doom Fear duration + Spectral Wall buff + Signet of Spite buff + Dhuumfire = all that stuff just adds-up into a mix that allows for very OP builds.
And let’s not forget Greater Marks making Marks unblockable.
Many Professions depend on blocks (more or less) and Marks just completely ignore them.

Honestly I don’t think that Dhuumfire needs a nerf.
I think that Terror does.

Terror doesn’t need that much damage anymore now that you can combine it with Torment and Burning.

If Dhuumfire got nerfed only the Terror builds would continue to use it, other builds wouldn’t bother touching it anymore.

Your post leads me to think that you have no idea what a condition necromancer should be all about- Hint: not an engineer clone nor a dhuumfire +terror bursty condition spammer. Nerfing terror will force every condition necromancers to play the cookie cutter build. Please name any VIABLE CONDITION builds other than 30/20… that use dhuumfire without terror. Now name me any VIABLE CONDITION builds that use terror without dhuumfire. Exactly.

I don’t use Dhuumfire and my build is not built around terror. I use fear to allow myself more time for CD on skills and allow endurance to build up to dodge a little more. Drives me nuts when someone speced for terror burns his CD and can’t do anything anymore but die in place. Too many people jumped on the bandwagon.

You misunderstood my post.