Guild Wars 2

I have a really low level necro sitting on my account, collecting dust and holding onto things. All I see on the forums is how terrible this class is…how no one will take one into dungeons and the only place they seem to have a ‘place’ is in a large WvW setting. So, needless to say, it’s kept me from digging into the class and figuring things out. I don’t want to end up wasting time getting a character to 80 only to find out no one wants to play content with me.

I enjoyed the first few levels I tried it out…the DS saved me from deaths I would have otherwise taken and I got through content (IE skill point challenges and what not) that I constantly died on with other characters. It helped me learn the dodge mechanics and how to time things properly like no other class did because there was that safety oh-kitten button. But it seems that the higher a necro goes, the less ‘useful’ they seem to be.

I know the condition stacking and overwriting is a big issue. From what I understand this was supposed to be one of the condition professions, but over time conditions ended up being given to all the other professions like it was candy on Halloween. But what else puts this class so low on the rung of the profession ladder? Is the damage too low? Not enough party support?

Or am I just listening to the few who complain too much? Is it really that bad?

On a PvE front, it’s the lack of group buffing and the general crappiness of conditions in PvE. Plus, what necros are really good at (boon and condition control) are generally meaningless in PvE where few enemies use meaningful conditions and even fewer use boons that don’t just get instantly reapplied, making your removal worthless.

In PvP and WvW, they’re great.

I love the class. Keep in mind that the primary motivator for people when giving feedback is to complain or otherwise provide negative feedback. Someone who is content isn’t coming here to say “Hey, class feels really good, thanks!”. They are just busy in-game.

You won’t get invited to speedruns in PvE dungeons. Condis are going to feel silly when fighting one mob with a zerg. But in PvP, you just have so… many… toys. It’s phenomenal. You can build to do so many things, include take advantage of cliff-diving with Spectral Walk, tank a large amount of incoming damage with Spectral Armor → Death Shroud (DS says it removes spectral effects. It doesn’t. Don’t listen to the in-game tooltip.), get some really high AoE burst damage, do whatever you want to condis (send them to a foe, cleanse them, turn them into boons), turn into the most annoying cloud ever by ticking Blind on a large group, spread a huge stack of conditions to a large group of people. It makes me happy just thinking about it.

Don’t ever let someone else dictate what you play or enjoy. The only thing that matters is how much you enjoy the class. The rest will come. You can find people who don’t judge your class in PvE and do basically any fractal level. You can complete all the dungeon content. You can be a huge baller while roaming in WvW. You can be pivotal to a zerg in WvW. I don’t sPvP much, but I don’t see how the class couldn’t perform fine there.

If you enjoyed Necro, play it. Have fun with it. If you find its pitfalls are too much for you, enjoy a different class. But I wouldn’t recommend not trying it simply because someone else gets all complainy.

The class is good, a full berserker geared good necro can do 6-7k dps

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

I’m full zerker necro accepted in full dps parties, for example CoE/Arah I hit 6-10k life blasts + piercing + vuln stacking , also have acces to wells that blind/ stacks vulnerability + deal high damage , Necro’s aren’t that bad, we’re awesome PvE is all about knowing the mechanics :p

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

Elementalist is not bad, they’re asked for Fire fields + ice bow & fgs to deal insane damage..

Falcon.8713:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

Elementalist is not bad, they’re asked for Fire fields + ice bow & fgs to deal insane damage..

Thats the problem, ele is just utility, they’re not that good on their own. If other classes could get the FGS then nobody would want an ele. Damage is not all that makes a class. Something everyone could use to learn really.

Phenn @ GW2Guru:

I’d start this section with GW2’s official description, but the class in reality isn’t in the place that the development team would have it.

So my description will focus on where the class is at the moment.
The Necromancer is two things: First it’s an underdog class. Everything it does another class can do in an easier fashion, and often times better.

You play a Necro because you want to play a Necro.

Second, it’s a scrappy class. It can take hits and make mobs pay. It can mix it up in the middle of a swarm of enemies and come out on top—bruised and beaten, but victorious.

Third, the Necro is selfish. To play in the best, Necros offer very little to a party in the way of buffs, boons, or heals (healing could be debated, but other classes still do it better). If you play a Necro, your job is to tangle with death and leave your party to clean up the rest.

This is a very good description from a very seasoned Necromancer.
The Necro is always a tad worse than someone else; The extra health from DS is an exception though.

I.e. a Necro can actually deliver dps to seriously compete with the Top dps-professions, but they still fall flat since those still have better support.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Falcon.8713:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

Elementalist is not bad, they’re asked for Fire fields + ice bow & fgs to deal insane damage..

Thats the problem, ele is just utility, they’re not that good on their own. If other classes could get the FGS then nobody would want an ele. Damage is not all that makes a class. Something everyone could use to learn really.

Erm ele has everything. Top damage (not just with conjures), buffing, utility, support, versatility, active defense. Best solo class aswell.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Falcon.8713:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

Elementalist is not bad, they’re asked for Fire fields + ice bow & fgs to deal insane damage..

Thats the problem, ele is just utility, they’re not that good on their own. If other classes could get the FGS then nobody would want an ele. Damage is not all that makes a class. Something everyone could use to learn really.

Erm ele has everything. Top damage (not just with conjures), buffing, utility, support, versatility, active defense. Best solo class aswell.

We must be playing different classes. Or you played them near launch when they wernt total kitten.

Nope but im talking about pve.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Falcon.8713:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

Elementalist is not bad, they’re asked for Fire fields + ice bow & fgs to deal insane damage..

Thats the problem, ele is just utility, they’re not that good on their own. If other classes could get the FGS then nobody would want an ele. Damage is not all that makes a class. Something everyone could use to learn really.

Erm ele has everything. Top damage (not just with conjures), buffing, utility, support, versatility, active defense. Best solo class aswell.

Spoj is correct. However, if you haven’t bothered to actually learn everything about the Elementalist, you’ll find it difficult to perform. Once you have, though, you’ll have amazing Dps, amazing support and amazing survivability.
Again, it takes a lot of work to get to that point.

You could argue that I’m biased, but with each and every one of my 4 characters @ 80 (Ele, Warrior, Guardian, Engineer), I’ve really sought to become as good as possible on them (Though, I usually choose a ~meta build that I see fit and stick with that) and learned their tricks.

Can’t imagine how silly Elementalists will be with the Burning Speed evade, Frozen Burst CB, and the ability to freaking switch between builds!?!

Phadde.7362:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Falcon.8713:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Everyone thinks their class sucks, that’s why. While the necro isnt particularly good for PvE it’s not terrible and other classes have it worse (Elementalist). Necros can do fine in WvW, which you said; and while I dont play PvP I hear they’re not bad there.

Elementalist is not bad, they’re asked for Fire fields + ice bow & fgs to deal insane damage..

Thats the problem, ele is just utility, they’re not that good on their own. If other classes could get the FGS then nobody would want an ele. Damage is not all that makes a class. Something everyone could use to learn really.

Erm ele has everything. Top damage (not just with conjures), buffing, utility, support, versatility, active defense. Best solo class aswell.

Spoj is correct. However, if you haven’t bothered to actually learn everything about the Elementalist, you’ll find it difficult to perform. Once you have, though, you’ll have amazing Dps, amazing support and amazing survivability.
Again, it takes a lot of work to get to that point.

ANd you’ll always be inferior to a warrior who does less work than you do on top of the fact that he’ll out damage you and be more durable. This isnt the ele forum though so we should drop this conversation, i’ve already said my thoughts on this in the ele forum numerous times. If we really want to debate this make a thread on the ele forum and i’ll continue this discussion with you there.

Warrior doesnt out damage ele. Thats a misconception from about a year ago. Warrior is easier to play and survive with though.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

ANd you’ll always be inferior to a warrior who does less work than you do on top of the fact that he’ll out damage you and be more durable. This isnt the ele forum though so we should drop this conversation, i’ve already said my thoughts on this in the ele forum numerous times. If we really want to debate this make a thread on the ele forum and i’ll continue this discussion with you there.

Good idea. We’ll agree to (seriously) disagree on this one.

On topic: I’ve brought up the idea a few times in other threads that if the Necromancers traits which gives him/her boons, heals, etc. shared these effects entirely to the partymembers, (which is a freaking huge buff) they would be on pair with other professions, wouldn’t they?

Examples which currently doesn’t affect allies:

1. Furious Demise: Fury when entering DS (5s)
2. Reapers Might: Life Blast grants Might
3. Shrouded Removal: Lost 1 condition when entering DS
4. Vampiric: Siphon Health whenever you hit a foe
5. (Grand Master) Foot in the Grave: Gain Stability when entering DS (3s)

The last one would be, in theory very powerful; The Guardian can grant nearby allies Stability for 3s when using Virtue of Courage, which then has 75s CD, while DS has a maximum of 10s.
On the other hand, the Guardian Trait is a Master tier, and the Necros is a Grandmaster Tier! That’s a big difference, and you’re giving up 100% Critical Chance while in DS instead. In addition, it can always be configured with duration and internal CD.

Disclaimer: “The necro is not really bad.”

But when you take into account how the game plays out at the most basic mechanics (damage, control, support), how would you rate the necro? People need to honestly ask themselves without over complicating the final answer. Keep it simple, good or bad?

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?

Answer these questions with a simple “good” or “bad.” Then ask yourself these same questions for the other classes and see where the necro ranks overall.

Jayce.5632:

Disclaimer: “The necro is not really bad.”

But when you take into account how the game plays out at the most basic mechanics (damage, control, support), how would you rate the necro? People need to honestly ask themselves without over complicating the final answer. Keep it simple, good or bad?

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?

Answer these questions with a simple “good” or “bad.” Then ask yourself these same questions for the other classes and see where the necro ranks overall.

Thats over simplifying it tbh. Necro is not really terrible at any of those things but the other classes can provide a lot more of each in most cases. Its also the type of support, damage and control that matters and how useful that is compared to other types.

No matter how you look at it necro is bottom in pve. Ranger (debatable) and engi are also bottom tier classes but they are leagues above necro at the moment.

Jayce.5632:

Disclaimer: “The necro is not really bad.”

But when you take into account how the game plays out at the most basic mechanics (damage, control, support), how would you rate the necro? People need to honestly ask themselves without over complicating the final answer. Keep it simple, good or bad?

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?

Answer these questions with a simple “good” or “bad.” Then ask yourself these same questions for the other classes and see where the necro ranks overall.

This is an interesting exercise. In reference to WvW roaming of course.

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
Good to Great
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
Good to Great
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
Great
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
Bad to Ok
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
Bad to Ok
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?
Ok

EDIT: And I think relative to the rest of the classes it would be somewhere in the middle. Certainly not at the bottom, and we would move up quite a bit if healing worked in DS and we could actually be supported like everyone else.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Thats over simplifying it tbh. Necro is not really terrible at any of those things but the other classes can provide a lot more of each in most cases. Its also the type of support, damage and control that matters and how useful that is compared to other types.

No matter how you look at it necro is bottom in pve. Ranger (debatable) and engi are also bottom tier classes but they are leagues above necro at the moment.

I agree. Especially that the other professions can provide more of these things at the same time, while still keeping the efficiency. And mostly, they’ll be doing so with much more ease.

I think that’s the fundamental problem with the Necro.

I might be wrong though.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Jayce.5632:

Disclaimer: “The necro is not really bad.”

But when you take into account how the game plays out at the most basic mechanics (damage, control, support), how would you rate the necro? People need to honestly ask themselves without over complicating the final answer. Keep it simple, good or bad?

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?

Answer these questions with a simple “good” or “bad.” Then ask yourself these same questions for the other classes and see where the necro ranks overall.

Thats over simplifying it tbh. Necro is not really terrible at any of those things but the other classes can provide a lot more of each in most cases. Its also the type of support, damage and control that matters and how useful that is compared to other types.

No matter how you look at it necro is bottom in pve. Ranger (debatable) and engi are also bottom tier classes but they are leagues above necro at the moment.

If we’re going from a PvE standpoint alone, the ranger is very strong. Some people just refuse to look passed the meta sometimes for viable builds. Or abandoning the class feature for the build. Anet gives you pets so you obviously have to center your build around pets.

The necro isnt bad in terms of damage but the main thing that kills it in PvE is the lack of AOE with said damage.

To answer my own questions (in case any was curious),

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
Good – Conditions
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
Bad – Death Shroud
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
Good – Fear
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
Bad – Death Shroud
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
Bad – Boons
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?
Bad – Death Shroud

Spoj The Second.7680:

Jayce.5632:

Disclaimer: “The necro is not really bad.”

But when you take into account how the game plays out at the most basic mechanics (damage, control, support), how would you rate the necro? People need to honestly ask themselves without over complicating the final answer. Keep it simple, good or bad?

How is the necro when it comes to dealing damage?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against damage?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing control?
How is the necro when it comes to defending against control?
How is the necro when it comes to dealing support?
How is the necro when it comes to receiving support?

Answer these questions with a simple “good” or “bad.” Then ask yourself these same questions for the other classes and see where the necro ranks overall.

Thats over simplifying it tbh. Necro is not really terrible at any of those things but the other classes can provide a lot more of each in most cases. Its also the type of support, damage and control that matters and how useful that is compared to other types.

No matter how you look at it necro is bottom in pve. Ranger (debatable) and engi are also bottom tier classes but they are leagues above necro at the moment.

I can only speak for ranger, but my necro does a better job in all of the above categories except for defending against control, and perhaps dealing support. Third time I’ve posted on the necro forums today, but I do find it much more adaptable and playable than my ranger. :/

Well i would much rather have a ranger in my group. Spotter, frost spirit, fury, might, fire field, blasts, vuln, reflects and huge long duration imobalize. And theres more obviously.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Well i would much rather have a ranger in my group. Spotter, frost spirit, fury, might, fire field, blasts, vuln, reflects and huge long duration imobalize. And theres more obviously.

For general PvE yeah I’d agree. Spotter is in a tree that is packed with goodies, so it’s hard to take sometimes. Rangers do have really good fury and vuln uptime, but might is only 1 aoe stack unless you take a cat. Spirit rangers kinda suck for dungeons and fractals, trap rangers are best for spvp. The reflect is very situational, you can’t move, and it’s on an offhand weap that almost no ranger uses. Entangle is good for general pve and little else, the roots are paper. Basically the best option for ranger is condi…which of course sucks for the 25 stack limit.

Condi necros are at a disadvantage just as much with the stack limit. So I would agree with you on that part for sure. But like someone else said up top, a high power/crit build necro does very high damage with DS traited right, especially lich form. By comparison, my ranger with the same power/crit stats does much less. And while they don’t have many hard CC options, they have oodles of soft options like chill, cripple, and fears. Not to mention the poisons, weaknesses, vulns, and blinds. Their single largest detractor is the lack of a decent non-elite stabo. Guardians are my friends.

The real biter about the bleed stack limit is a condi build’s bleeds are worth a lot more in damage than a non-condi build but the stack manager does not care, it just bumps off the oldest one for the new. The reduction in bleed damage per tick is a combination of strong bleeds getting knocked off by possibly much weaker bleeds.

It seems like it should be possible to prioritize bleeds by damage on the server and only add weaker bleeds when the stack dips under 25.

Its not that necromancer ar bad form a blance stand point (atleast in pvp, i dont know about pve). Its more than many mechanics of the necromancer feel broken. With broken i dont mean to strong or to weak but more in the line that for example profession mechanics like life siphon dont work in ds.

this class would be good if it had some decent form of stability… without it you are just get cc spammed locked down and thrown about like a ping pong ball.

it doesn’t matter how much utility you have if you cant dodge that 1000 blades or even use them.

I am aware we do have some stability but for 3 seconds it means I need to trait 30 into ds and well of power has 5 ticks but only applies stability once as a stun break….. once!

Agree that we need a bit more CC protection, and I am a firm advocate of moving foot in the grave to a master level trait. Won’t happen but it would really change some things up.

Muchacho.2390:

Its not that necromancer ar bad form a blance stand point (atleast in pvp, i dont know about pve)

But this is the actual problem in PvE: Necros are overall weaker than the rest. Even if a Necro specializes in doing something, there’s usually someone that can do it better, with more ease, and still have more cards down their sleeve.

Obsidian.1328:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Well i would much rather have a ranger in my group. Spotter, frost spirit, fury, might, fire field, blasts, vuln, reflects and huge long duration imobalize. And theres more obviously.

For general PvE yeah I’d agree. Spotter is in a tree that is packed with goodies, so it’s hard to take sometimes. Rangers do have really good fury and vuln uptime, but might is only 1 aoe stack unless you take a cat. Spirit rangers kinda suck for dungeons and fractals, trap rangers are best for spvp. The reflect is very situational, you can’t move, and it’s on an offhand weap that almost no ranger uses. Entangle is good for general pve and little else, the roots are paper. Basically the best option for ranger is condi…which of course sucks for the 25 stack limit.

Condi necros are at a disadvantage just as much with the stack limit. So I would agree with you on that part for sure. But like someone else said up top, a high power/crit build necro does very high damage with DS traited right, especially lich form. By comparison, my ranger with the same power/crit stats does much less. And while they don’t have many hard CC options, they have oodles of soft options like chill, cripple, and fears. Not to mention the poisons, weaknesses, vulns, and blinds. Their single largest detractor is the lack of a decent non-elite stabo. Guardians are my friends.

I think you may want to look into the meta build for ranger. While it has its flaws. The issues you mention are barely worth taking notice of. I mentioned entangle because it is really powerful in certain fights (tar in arah p1 & legendary flame imbued shaman). The might for ranger isnt great, but they have a blast finisher on 1 of their best offhands. They also have a fire field if your group doesnt have one themselves. Necro doesnt have this kind of access to group buffing. The meta build only uses frost spirit and its very easy to position it where it wont die for each fight. I have the pleasure of playing with someone who enjoys playing sword warhorn ranger in dungeons, so im well aware of the huge benefits it brings. There is nothing worthwhile that the necro brings in comparison.

Sword warhorn ranger does only slightly less dps than dagger necro. In terms of organised groups the dps between classes is very similar. Ele and thief are top by a large margin, the rest are around the same with engi on bottom and guard slightly above the rest.

The only reason people consider ranger bottom tier is because of bearbow rangers giving them a bad rep and the fact that sword is quite difficult to get used to and downright suicidal in some fights. Simply put sword auto has its flaws and is the rangers best dps option so this causes problems for many people.

Oh and for the reflect. People shouldnt be moving while reflecting anyway. If you move out from under the guardians wall you are going to get hit. Most reflects require tight stacking and no movement to work reliably. So being rooted while reflecting isnt an issue. We actually have better luck with ranger reflects than guardian reflects when killing lupi in our daily arah runs (less projectiles bug through the reflect and down people and ranger more consistantly skips phase 2).

You got me on dungeons, I never run ’em. Ranger is my main though, @ 3,500 hours on it. You kinda have to like to micromanage with ’em, the pet mechanic is just that bad for dungeons and fractals. That alone is enough to warrant taking any other class.

Other things are not as good as they seem. For instance, that horn5 skill you mentioned: one of the longest blast finisher CD’s in the game(35s/28s traited), and the horn4 is only good if you’re a power build. All you need are a few peeps with a low CD blast finisher for the whole group.

The fire trap only works on mob trigger, so it’s not something you can prep with before a fight. Torch is way better for that, but is exclusive to a condi build; which is fine for dungeons, but bad for open world content.

Axe5 I can see being good for certain dungeon encounters. I guess I never use it because being rooted=death in W3. Mobility is king. Necro’s may not have party-wide buff appeal, but they certainly bring way more party-wide debuff appeal to the table. It balances out in favor of necros imo.

/shrug. I can see the things you mention being good for dungeons/fractals in particular, but not much else. Still, that pet…

Theres no such thing as exclusive weapons to certain builds. You can take the torch for a fire field and swap it out before getting in combat or just keep it on the second weapon set. You can take warhorn for blast and then swap out in the same way. Many encounters in dungeons allow time for pre-stacking might/swiftness/stealth without getting in combat.

I forgot to mention. Yeah pets are another reason people dislike rangers. But they arent as unmanageable as people make out most of the time.

And yes necros have plenty of debuffs. But i assume because you dont do dungeons you dont realise how bad condition damage is and how poorly debuff conditions work in pve. The things they do are outclasses by the things rangers do in dungeons. Necros arent so bad in fractals because weakness and chill are a little more important there, but still can be covered by consumables or other classes so there is no need for a necro which has no cleave.

Hmm, well I would never use a scepter on a power build necro…the direct damage is just too low. Why purposely nerf yourself? I understand there are plenty of times you can buff out-of-combat, just saying it’s odd you would want to use a condi weapon only for 1 mechanic(fire field) when you could be using one that actually had skill use.

Dungeons/Fractals are only one small aspect of PvE, most of it is free-roaming content. Condi’s work fine on most everything there except champs and wb’s. Condi’s are actually op in pvp and w3 atm. The cleave thing…yeah, kinda sucks in that regard I agree. Fingers crossed for those pole arms that rumored for necros! Still, well builds specced for prot can do wonders for the group though, prot is one of the most underrated boons.

Well you wouldnt use a scepter on a power build because theres no reason to. But torch is an offhand and in pve its auto attacks which provide the dps so you can equip offhands according to what utility you need. You will be using sword for dps. And greatsword for more challenging fights. Which means you usually have the freedom to choose between axe for reflect, dagger for evade, torch for fire field and warhorn for blast/dmg.

Same thing goes for necro to a certain extent. You use dagger mainhand and then offhands can change. Usually you run focus and warhorn but offhand dagger (usually condi) can work as a condi cleanse/blind/weakness debuff for power builds. Its all about adapting to encounters.

I could only see that beneficial if you were running solo. A single guardian using purging flames is hand over best better because this one util also cleanses and increases boon duration. Torch, without a condi build, only does 1 thing: provide a fire field. That’s a waste of 2 skill slots.

Now if you’re talking about out-of-combat use only…well any weapon fits that bill. Odd way to play the game though if you’re relying on that for all your fire fields. I chalk this problem up entirely to ANet’s bs skillbar system that doesn’t let you choose.

This is why you run sword warhorn, sword torch/axe/dagger. Fire field is not a waste of 2 skills. For dps you are just going to be using the sword auto so there is literally no use having an offhand which doesnt have utility just because 1 skill isnt useful to you. There is nothing lost by taking a torch, you still have your dps auto attack.

Examples: Necro focus 5 is not worth casting ever except on 1 champ in the entire game (champ ettin in fractals). But focus 4 is so you take it just for that. Extra weapon skills are supposed to be used situationally. You dont spam warhorn 4 on necro because thats not helpful and it doesnt do damage. You dont spam your skills. Use them when they are useful. Which applies to offhand torch on ranger.

Anyway having the ranger with sword torch is very helpful when you have an lh ele. They cant keep a firefield up for themselves while staying in LH so the ranger can help. So can other classes but thats not the point. Its the fact that ranger has these things aswell. Necro doesnt even have the option to help in this way. I think you are underating the value of fire fields and blast finishers in pve.

No, I’ve just never had a lack of them. So many other classes provide them, you don’t need every class to be able to whip out a fire field on command. Blast finishers are everywhere(except with rangers ofc).

But just to be clear, all you do is spam 1 for dps? That’s really the only way you do damage in dungeons/fractals?

*note: I use focus5 on every dredge I see anywhere…works like a charm. Also works great in Orr. You’re just talking about champs, which are unique and designed so poorly by ANet that spamming 1 is the most effective thing to do. Now that I think about it, perhaps that’s why I don’t do champs that often…

There’s nothing wrong with champs outside of zergs which are dumb in the first place.

With 1-5 players, they work well/as intended.

Well you said you dont run dungeons. Dungeons you only have 5 players. So depending on your group composition you are probably going to miss something. Anyway even ignoring utility, bringing ranger is important to achieve the highest damaging party compostion in the game.

http://youtu.be/oVRXR4TqWzk
Ranger was essential for this record. And dont look at this as trivalising content. My guildmembers in this video took days of attempts to get this kill.

Long story short. Organised groups and knowledgable players will always welcome a decent sword/x ranger (most rangers are bearbows so you wont see this in pugs) in their groups. Because they bring a lot to the table and increase group dps by a huge amount. The same cant be said for necro.

Spoj The Second.7680:

…bringing ranger is important to achieve the highest damaging party compostion in the game.

Interesting, it’s never been the case with me is all I can say on that. But I don’t try to speed run things either. Part of the reason I don’t do dungeons is I like to take my time and explore the content at a modest pace. I just don’t see the point in trying to set records for that. :/

^ That usually earns me a lot of exacerbation from my guildies though. :P

After the feature patch necros will get the ranger slot in a cleric´s (non class stacking^^) facetank group.
Aside from that, necros will still be the worst choice.
U can do all the content, but other classes are simply better for ur party.

Where is the weakness stacking? Perma weakness is atleast something uniq the necro can bring to the table and nobody has mentioned it.
There also is a guide on it over on guru.

Thief/Ingi/Warriors can bring alot of weakness. Usually it´s not needed, that´s why nobody has mentioned it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_%28consumable%29

Perma weakness. No need for a class to sacrifice anything for it when you can just use scale venom instead of pots. You only need weakness in fractals anyway, and pots arent always useful in fracs.

No one ever said necros were bad, lol.

Keira Ferland.5619:

No one ever said necros were bad, lol.

Not “bad” at all, but not as good as other classes. (PvE)

Im still hoping for feature patches (new weapons, new utilityskill, new boss mechanics).

I’m still interested in the idea why Necro don’t have reflect as an agressive, punisher class (same as mesmer), meanwhile Guardians have it, who just protectors of innocent and have numerous other ways to mitigate projectiles. Heck, even warriors can trait for it …
Well, actually every class has reflect or absorb in some form. Except necro.

Also every class has cleave in some form except necro. Or every class has active defense other than just base dodges except necro. Its very interesting,

But we have a infinite amount of second health bar which synergyze well with life force generating Spectral skills and life siphon!