Guild Wars 2

they offer less damage, less utility, no group buffs, and their minions cause more harm than good… whats the point of playing a necro over these other light armor classes? no one would choose a necro for their dungeon over a mes or an ele.

Why would anyone choose a thief? They offer less group support, no group buffs, you spend more time reviving them than they spend dealing damage, so they cut your groups DPS to the point where they might as well not be there. What’s the point of playing a thief over these other medium armor classes? No one would choose a thief for their dungeon over a ranger or engineer.

See how easy this is? Reason why is because you are flat-out wrong on almost all of your points.

Necromancers offer lots of sustained damage and lots of damage mitigation that applies to the whole group. That plus their unparalled condition control makes them valuable in dungeons. Necros can take and hold aggro for a long time, relieving the rest of the party to deal their damage rather freely.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why would anyone choose a thief? They offer less group support, no group buffs, you spend more time reviving them than they spend dealing damage, so they cut your groups DPS to the point where they might as well not be there. What’s the point of playing a thief over these other medium armor classes? No one would choose a thief for their dungeon over a ranger or engineer.

See how easy this is? Reason why is because you are flat-out wrong on almost all of your points.

You’re kidding right?
Thief has access to stealthrez, anti-aggro with stealth, a wall that blocks projectiles on low CD, blind fields, blind spams, area weakness/poison… on top of high DPS.
You have either been playing with REALLY bad Thieves or you don’t know anything about Thieves if that’s what you know about them.
That’s one of the most, tide-turning classes in PvE.

Necro on the other hand really needs a good PvE builds.
In most dungeons they’re being carried as they deal low damage and don’t have many tide-turning tools.
You’re better off asking Anet to buff PvE necros because really… Minions are pretty useless (unlike GW1), conditions deal low DPS, the only thing left is power necro which is somewhat useful but still far from the usefulness of other classes.

Red Falcon.8257:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why would anyone choose a thief? They offer less group support, no group buffs, you spend more time reviving them than they spend dealing damage, so they cut your groups DPS to the point where they might as well not be there. What’s the point of playing a thief over these other medium armor classes? No one would choose a thief for their dungeon over a ranger or engineer.

See how easy this is? Reason why is because you are flat-out wrong on almost all of your points.

You’re kidding right?
Thief has access to stealthrez, anti-aggro with stealth, a wall that blocks projectiles on low CD, blind fields, blind spams, area weakness/poison… on top of high DPS.
You have either been playing with REALLY bad Thieves or you don’t know anything about Thieves if that’s what you know about them.

It’s called hyperbole. I know that thieves offer a lot to a party, but on paper, they don’t look that great for group support. Likewise, on paper, a necro doesn’t look that great for bringing stuff to a party, but in reality, they do.

Yeh… Think of spreading 15 stacks of bleeds across all mobs around.. Thats over 2k dmg sustained across 6 mobs every second… Pretty nice IMO. And thats just spreading bleeds, you can spread every condition.

Why would anyone choose any class other than zerker warrior? Perhaps because they don’t want the game to be boring as hell. Not everything is about min/maxing, and lots of classes have things to add if you look for it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s called hyperbole. I know that thieves offer a lot to a party, but on paper, they don’t look that great for group support. Likewise, on paper, a necro doesn’t look that great for bringing stuff to a party, but in reality, they do.

They do, but what they bring is severely UP compared to what other classes do.
Thief = Stealthrez (most of OP all), regen, blind spam, perma AoEweakness, high DPS
War = Mega DPS, major DPS buffs
Guard = Walls/bubbles, major support buffs/heals
Ele = High AoE DPS, major support (water megaheals/prot)
Ranger = Water field for megaheals, mid-high DPS, spirits
Engi = Elixir gun, bandages, elixirs
Mes = Reflections, portals, AoE DPS, Time warp
Necro = Low DPS, shallow support

Imo they just need to fix MM.
MM was the way to go in PvE in GW1 but with the cooldown on minions and lack of minion healing system it isn’t viable.

I’ve said this once and I’ll say this again. The best MM’s in GW1 were Heroes. The Computer’s ability to handle all the enchantments from AotL or Jagged Bones (mutually exclusive) to appropriately using Death Nova (until the last few years with no Minion AI it was down right impossible to cast this on the Minions close to death) along with the change to Masochism (another enchantment). No player could juggle this as effectively as a computer. Then of course you know, there’s the whole endgame PvE that was impossible to bring an MM to because the end bosses would destroy all the minions, and with no corpses available make them useless in a boss fight, left swating at bosses with a staff or scepter. Oh yeah. Real useful.

Nope, best Necro build as far as DPS and general Utility throughout the game was the SS Curses Necro hands down. Spiteful Spirit was virtually unchanged throughout the entire game. The only change being, I believe, that the enemies were given better AI to deal with the damage. Which didn’t even matter because going to Hard Mode (enemies attack faster) actually improved the Elites ability to doll out damage. The SS Necro was pretty much required in all high end farming that (save for a few Dungeons that were relegated to the A/P Shadow Forms).

So can we all stop putting on our rose tinted glasses about how uber the MM was? The change to the skills was to prevent the very thing I mentioned and nobody wants to address it. By removing the Corpse spell cost from the Minion Spells, Anet is trying to make the class actually viable in high-tier PvP (ie not JQ and FA and AB which were largely considered PvE missions with other people since the points were all acquired by killing NPCs) as well as Endgame content boss fights. But by removing the corpse requirement the had to make the number of minions more manageable because if you could just continually spam a minion skill for Minions you’d have an infinitely large army at your advantage (one that doesn’t have health degen might I have).

No, I’m not saying the current system is perfect but it’s definitely a step in the right direction to make Minions more accessible to players in more formats of the game.

Red Falcon.8257:

Necro = Low DPS, shallow support

Multiple darkness fields (lifesteal/blindness), poison, weakness, condition control…

Ratphink.4751:

I’ve said this once and I’ll say this again. The best MM’s in GW1 were Heroes. The Computer’s ability to handle all the enchantments from AotL or Jagged Bones (mutually exclusive) to appropriately using Death Nova (until the last few years with no Minion AI it was down right impossible to cast this on the Minions close to death) along with the change to Masochism (another enchantment). No player could juggle this as effectively as a computer. Then of course you know, there’s the whole endgame PvE that was impossible to bring an MM to because the end bosses would destroy all the minions, and with no corpses available make them useless in a boss fight, left swating at bosses with a staff or scepter. Oh yeah. Real useful.

Nope, best Necro build as far as DPS and general Utility throughout the game was the SS Curses Necro hands down. Spiteful Spirit was virtually unchanged throughout the entire game. The only change being, I believe, that the enemies were given better AI to deal with the damage. Which didn’t even matter because going to Hard Mode (enemies attack faster) actually improved the Elites ability to doll out damage. The SS Necro was pretty much required in all high end farming that (save for a few Dungeons that were relegated to the A/P Shadow Forms).

So can we all stop putting on our rose tinted glasses about how uber the MM was? The change to the skills was to prevent the very thing I mentioned and nobody wants to address it. By removing the Corpse spell cost from the Minion Spells, Anet is trying to make the class actually viable in high-tier PvP (ie not JQ and FA and AB which were largely considered PvE missions with other people since the points were all acquired by killing NPCs) as well as Endgame content boss fights. But by removing the corpse requirement the had to make the number of minions more manageable because if you could just continually spam a minion skill for Minions you’d have an infinitely large army at your advantage (one that doesn’t have health degen might I have).

No, I’m not saying the current system is perfect but it’s definitely a step in the right direction to make Minions more accessible to players in more formats of the game.

Well, that is, like, your opinion, man.

From my experience, in a lot of content MMs were a lot more useful than SSs in GW1, simply because it would prevent a lot of wipes/DP by absorbing damage.
I’m not talking about 2man 55/SS UW teams, but the 5-10 man content.
I’ve been MMing a lot in GW1 and I could get a team to survive anything with my minions, but can’t say the same for SS as it doesn’t really prevent your team from failing, it’s more of a damage setup.

Saintly.8062:

Red Falcon.8257:

Necro = Low DPS, shallow support

Multiple darkness fields (lifesteal/blindness), poison, weakness, condition control…

Poison/weakness can be done by everyone, condition control same and better, darkness fields are worse than water ones for healing and worse than smoke ones for team protection.

But hey, if you want to be the devil’s advocate and say Necro is on par with other I’m not really stopping you.
I have other, much better classes to fall back on… all I want is have necros on par with others.

RedFalcon: Reading your posts in this thread make me wonder if you have ever even looked at the necro’s skills and traits and what they actually do or if you just play your warrior all day and go “I don’t notice what that necro is doing, he must be useless”.

Numerous AoE blinds, weakness, bleeds, poison, interrupts, and chill drastically decrease the threat that enemies pose. For condition control, nobody does it better than a necro. Darkness fields may not be as good as Smoke, but they are a lot more accessible and still have definite impacts. Vulnerability stacking is best from a necro (thieves can also hit the cap quickly, but it eats all of their initiative to do so). Epidemic lets them spread the love like nobody else can (I’ve easily hit 12-13k sustained dps with epidemic, which is more than just about anyone else can do).

On top of that, group protection and perma-regeneration as well as the best group healing skill in the game (Well of Blood)

No, not all of these can be used in a single build, but the majority can.

Oh, and the DPS of a necro may not be as high as some other classes, but it is sustained. Interrupts, dodging, reviving, and healing hurt our DPS significantly less than other classes.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Red Falcon.8257:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why would anyone choose a thief? They offer less group support, no group buffs, you spend more time reviving them than they spend dealing damage, so they cut your groups DPS to the point where they might as well not be there. What’s the point of playing a thief over these other medium armor classes? No one would choose a thief for their dungeon over a ranger or engineer.

See how easy this is? Reason why is because you are flat-out wrong on almost all of your points.

You’re kidding right?
Thief has access to stealthrez, anti-aggro with stealth, a wall that blocks projectiles on low CD, blind fields, blind spams, area weakness/poison… on top of high DPS.
You have either been playing with REALLY bad Thieves or you don’t know anything about Thieves if that’s what you know about them.

It’s called hyperbole. I know that thieves offer a lot to a party, but on paper, they don’t look that great for group support. Likewise, on paper, a necro doesn’t look that great for bringing stuff to a party, but in reality, they do.

Thieves’ AoE stealth is the best team support skill in wvw.

Thief are worst of than necros… I’ve come across more groups asking these days saying “LFM but No Thief please”. Though they are so strong in PvP.

Though lately I’ve been getting kicked or having to leave (as another necro in the group) more often now which is getting a bit annoying.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

On top of that, group protection and perma-regeneration as well as the best group healing skill in the game (Well of Blood)

No way the best… Guardians/Mes/Ele/Warrior(shouts) are better.

CHIPS.6018:

Thieves’ AoE stealth is the best team support skill in wvw.

Veil is better (no target limit), but the biggest strength of that skill right now is abusing culling.

Even without culling, it’s a strong skill, but that issue makes it completely broken.

@Nijjion: Well of Blood is an AoE heal that has a 4.4 healing power ratio to allies an an additional 1.0 to yourself. No other healing skill in the game does that much. Light combo fields also mean projectiles and whirls are lots of condition cleanses.

Red Falcon.8257:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s called hyperbole. I know that thieves offer a lot to a party, but on paper, they don’t look that great for group support. Likewise, on paper, a necro doesn’t look that great for bringing stuff to a party, but in reality, they do.

They do, but what they bring is severely UP compared to what other classes do.
Thief = Stealthrez (most of OP all), regen, blind spam, perma AoEweakness, high DPS
War = Mega DPS, major DPS buffs
Guard = Walls/bubbles, major support buffs/heals
Ele = High AoE DPS, major support (water megaheals/prot)
Ranger = Water field for megaheals, mid-high DPS, spirits
Engi = Elixir gun, bandages, elixirs
Mes = Reflections, portals, AoE DPS, Time warp
Necro = Low DPS, shallow support

Imo they just need to fix MM.
MM was the way to go in PvE in GW1 but with the cooldown on minions and lack of minion healing system it isn’t viable.

To be fair, bandages and elixirs suck for group support (except the rez elixir toss and bandages from elite).

Necros can help the group in different ways
saying that necro is usless for the party means that either u have no idea what the fk u’re talking about or that u’re playing a different game

I played the crap out of MMs in GW1. The reality is that people seem to forget how terrible we were the second our minions died. Our entire skill bar was devoted to minion creation, upkeep, and buffing. Any time you went into a group in PvE or the huge PvP (JQ, FA, AB), you would pray that your group could carry you through 2-3 fights so you could get up at least 5 or so minions and be not useless. You then had to pray that those 5 minions would kill more than they died, so you could stay somewhere close to 10 minions; all the while you are spamming Death Nova, BotM, and other healing/buffing spells to keep your army alive.

It was a 100% snowball build. You either got it going, and kept it going forever, and it absolutely demolished people, or you got shut down once, and then you were less powerful than your own minions running around masterless. Not to mention it was completely useless in most high end PvE and any smaller PvP. Most people used MMs as their 3 hero slots along with Discord because it was stupidly strong.

Playing as a necromancer in GW1 was one of two things: SS or BiP. Those were your options, and that was it. BiP was great for giving your caster’s lawnmower hacks, and SS was just incredible for its AoE damage.

Necromancers in GW2 are best for our conditions. We can out-condition every other class in the game, both offensively and defensively. Do you have an amazing condition build on your team? Awesome, bring a support necro to throw down wells/marks, and then bring Epidemic. That awesome condition-build is now 5x stronger.

Who else can say that they can make a teammate do 5x more damage just by pressing 1 skill every time its up?

@Drarnor Kunoram… Could be then the best ‘healing skill’ but no way the best healer… other classes just do it better and at bigger range.

Should do a test see if it beats the guardian elite book/heal see if it heals a guy through maw agony with no resist.

Though that fully heals them in 1 cast if use skill 5 and then have the skill 1 use to heal as well.

What’s the max heal Well of blood does?

Seriously.. bhawb u r so wrong. In Pve areas where there were corpses i could regularly keep up 11 minions with masochism and candy corn buff. The minions could survive through almost anything, if they were taking spike damage i could spam botm while the monk healed me. With half of my army being bone fiends the MM had good dps as well. Boss battles (like shiro, lich, abadon) were not good for minions. But then you just switch to spoil victor or SS
and pvp i agree they sucked balls

Well of Blood heals for 6740 (base 5240 + 152 per second, over 10 seconds) with no healing power. With 944 healing power, it heals for 11484 (base 6184 + 530 per second, over 10 seconds). That is to yourself, to others it only heals the ticks (so 1520-5300). I think you could get a bit more healing power than just 944 too.

Edit: Just realized you could easily get more healing power. The best I could get in the Mists was 1388 healing power, with WoB healing for 6628 initially, plus 707 each tick, over 10 seconds. So, theoretically, you could heal an ally for 7070 HP with WoB, and yourself for 13698.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Seriously.. bhawb u r so wrong. In Pve areas where there were corpses i could regularly keep up 11 minions with masochism and candy corn buff. The minions could survive through almost anything, if they were taking spike damage i could spam botm while the monk healed me. With half of my army being bone fiends the MM had good dps as well. Boss battles (like shiro, lich, abadon) were not good for minions. But then you just switch to spoil victor or SS
and pvp i agree they sucked balls

I said high end PvE; hard mode, bosses, anything without pretty trash mobs either made MMs bad (can’t keep them up), or made you a constant drain on your team because you need a dedicated healer just for yourself.

Bhawb.7408:

I played the crap out of MMs in GW1. The reality is that people seem to forget how terrible we were the second our minions died. Our entire skill bar was devoted to minion creation, upkeep, and buffing. Any time you went into a group in PvE or the huge PvP (JQ, FA, AB), you would pray that your group could carry you through 2-3 fights so you could get up at least 5 or so minions and be not useless. You then had to pray that those 5 minions would kill more than they died, so you could stay somewhere close to 10 minions; all the while you are spamming Death Nova, BotM, and other healing/buffing spells to keep your army alive.

You seem to forget something. Guild Wars 2 is NOT Guild Wars 1. You have to deal with it.

It applies HM mode as well. If your referring to FOW, UW, DOA speed runs those were set runs where u basically had to use pvx setup with any profession u play. Factions last missions and NF last missions(aside form bosses shiro, abbadon) you could use minions just fine. Fire islands last missions is where they did bad.

Its not a drain on ur team if ur keeping 11 minions up and they take all the damage for the party. Then the monk only has to heal nec for botm sacrifice, id say that makes things a lot easier on ur monk.

If a necro wanted to relieve pressure on the Monk in GW1, he would be a necro ranger running Melandru’s Resiliance and Foul Feast. The more conditions that were put out, the less work the Monk had to do. Was really funny how it worked, actually, and almost nobody did it. I did it in AB all the time with PUGs and the monks loved it. How many 4-man PUGs go entire AB’s without having a single person die?

Stealth is so OP in dungeons, one time I stealthed to revived my party and it reset the boss who was at 4% health left.

Hyo Jin.5630:

You seem to forget something. Guild Wars 2 is NOT Guild Wars 1. You have to deal with it.

I’m not sure what you are referencing? I like GW 2 MMs better, we can actually be useful in almost every facet of the game, unlike in GW 1 where we were amazing in our niche areas when we worked, and terrible when we didn’t.

Red Falcon.8257:

Poison/weakness can be done by everyone, condition control same and better, darkness fields are worse than water ones for healing and worse than smoke ones for team protection.

Not all classes can poison or apply weakeness; from what I can see 5/8 can do poison and 7/8 can do weakness. That being said its not just that necromancer can do it, they can do it rather well. Darkness fields might just be worse than water for healing and smoke for protection since it offers both.

Red Falcon.8257:

But hey, if you want to be the devil’s advocate and say Necro is on par with other I’m not really stopping you.
I have other, much better classes to fall back on… all I want is have necros on par with others.

I’m not really making that argument so much as I am stating that necro can offer a number of things if you happen to use it. It isn’t like necro’s can’t dungeon, or don’t offer anything to the team when in dungeons.

As for being ‘on par’, how you define that is going to define what classes look best to you. Not everyone has the same standards, so the list will vary.

Of course the necro can offer a number of things.
Other classes simply have more powerful/useful versions or just “more” of the same to offer, if not better tools.
A necro can reduce enemy damage but not remotely as good as a Thief can.
A necro can improve team’s offense / deal damage, but not remotely as good as Warrior can.
A necro can protect team but not remotely as good as a Guardian can.
A necro can AoE but not remotely as good as an Ele.
All he can do others can do better, so we’re back to OP’s initial question: Why would anyone want a necro over others?

Simply, the Necro has yet to find a niche role he’s best at and everyone -want- him for.
That’s why I suggested MM buffs, it’s something original and unique of the Necro so if he was really good at that role everyone would actually want one in their teams.
As it stands now, I have no reason to grab a Necro when other classes can do the same and much better, sadly.

I will always find well of power to be the most amazing Necro support skill, bar none. The dark combo field doesn’t matter really: it’s the fact that if you lay it down over a field applying burning to your team, you get to spam aegis on them. It’s that if enemies cause AoE vulnerability, you reverse that to AoE protection.

Next to that are shenanigans involving plague signet, which shines against bosses that apply lots of poison or infrequent but long burns.

i think hes stuck on the necros have low dps thing… which couldnt be further from the truth….

Sustained dps on a boss > burst

most of what he thinks is good dps is actualy just burst damage

i love haveing a necro in party it usualy makes things go rather smooth

Aven.7295:

i think hes stuck on the necros have low dps thing… which couldnt be further from the truth….

Sustained dps on a boss > burst

most of what he thinks is good dps is actualy just burst damage

i love haveing a necro in party it usualy makes things go rather smooth

My Necro can do 3000 DPS, not burst.

Necromancer is one of the best professions for farming. If you like gathering materials and killing trash mobs to do some crafting or just to sell, consider Necromancer.

Necro is very good in regular PvE against mindless mobs. I don’t think many other classes can kill 15 mindless mobs with such ease as the necromancer.

It is when the going gets tough, like hardcore dungeons and wvw, where necro gets destroyed.

Saintly.8062:

Why would anyone choose any class other than zerker warrior? Perhaps because they don’t want the game to be boring as hell. Not everything is about min/maxing, and lots of classes have things to add if you look for it.

Like Saintly said. I mean if you are getting technical about classes, honestly there is no reason for any class other than warriors, guards and mesmers(for TW or to skip content). The rest of the classes don’t bring enough to offset their liability of not being a heavy with lots of dps. Me personally, i run with whoever as long as they are a good player. I don’t care if they are engies, rangers, thieves, necros as long as they can play their class good and don’t get downed every 5 secs. Not like any dungeon is hard in this game or requires a college degree.

Sauzo.6821:

The rest of the classes don’t bring enough to offset their liability of not being a heavy with lots of dps.

That is not exactly true. Necromancers do a lot with conditions that straight dps professions do not see. Marks and wells, especially Greater Marks, a couple of elite skills, Epidemic, and the normal weapons skills do a lot for the group. Direct damage may be low but the condition control of a Necromancer on not only the target but the short range fighters around the target helps the group tear into the mob. A Necromancer does not just put conditions on the mob, it also strips them or converts them into boons. It may not seem significant but it is. A stack of conditions on a boss can stop a bunch of the boss’ adds from being a huge problem with a tap of the Epidemic button. Even something as simple as a cripple is important in keeping control of the battle.

Even Necromancers often forget how important their role as a support job is. Blinding a boss, while adding protect to the heavies, then converting their bleeds to regen and laying down another darkness field for the mediums is nothing to be ashamed of.

Yeah well if you dont mind guys dont boast with fake numbers.
Pve wise the class isnt bad,pvp wise you are the primary target of the entire enemy team because you are the easiest target and you cant do a thing about it.

Edit: And about that systained dps…………you probably forgot to mention it involves holding a main dagger and beeing in the frontline as a clothie.

grave of hearts.7830:

Yeah well if you dont mind guys dont boast with fake numbers.
Pve wise the class isnt bad,pvp wise you are the primary target of the entire enemy team because you are the easiest target and you cant do a thing about it.

Edit: And about that systained dps…………you probably forgot to mention it involves holding a main dagger and beeing in the frontline as a clothie.

On the contrary, it means standing wherever I want with a scepter and being able to take anything that gets thrown my way.

Necros can take as much punishment as any other class, the only time I have found myself in significant trouble is when I am against 2-3 people who can permanently keep me stunned/knocked around so I can’t cast any skills.

With necro I regularly have problems with CC and escaping/absorbing enemy set-ups (immobilize + hundred blades+stability stance is an example) before taking a lot of damage. Engineer has the same problem. Doesn’t need to be 2-3 people. 1 person is plenty if they have a good combo or good amount of CC.

As someone who plays thief, ele, war, necro pretty regularly and is currently rank 25 / tpvping, and maining war/ele, I can say i’d take a necro because of the condition control / mere survivability and sustainability of necromancer dmg (along with that downed signet / epidemic) over a thief (they really die too easily and consume the rest of the group’s resources, as well as being stealth not being very useful in many dungeons) in dungeons except in certain dungeons like TA where you really do want to skip a lot of trash mob. Then again, I hate TA except for u/u. Of course, at it is right now I generally would prefer a war/ele/guard/mesmer but I consider necro over engies/thieves/rangers.

However i still would not consider MM viable for most dungeons. bone minions are generally the only ones i ever keep if i play as a necro, because of the fun exploding poison field that packs a pretty heavy punch, and the fact that you can get rid of them pretty easily and call them back when you want to

The difference between light armour and heavy armour is about 300 toughness. I can never understand why armour comes into these (admittedly pointless) class comparisons.

Regardless of one might personally opine (or try to prove with real numbers) about Necromancers in dungeon runs, the lack of any sort of response from the OP makes me think this is more about seeking excitable reactions than an actual quest for useful discourse or substance.

TLDR; OP is trolling Necro players for some reason or another. Please do not feed any longer.

I can outbunker everything except grenade spam engi’s and trap rangers. CC isn’t a big deal when I can DS tank your hundred blades. Especially since while you sit there trying to smash my face in, my minions are definitely smashing yours in. Yes CC can be an issue, but I have never been CC’ed enough by a single person to make it a big issue.

However, recently in hotjoin (and one reason I hate hotjoin), I have been the ball in an intricate game of pinball using god-knows-what CC chains. All I know is I walk into some crapstorm of CC and by the time its over I’m staring at the sky.

I don’t know what most people do but I can keep 15/25 stacks of Vuln up the whole fight and combo of wells is awesome. Plus I can maintain Afro and tank it up for a long time plus self healing is goo with locust life tap, consume condition, dagger two, and focus regen.

Necro’s are amazing in dungeons not only for their support but for their massive debuffing and condition damage. If you run with an organized group where you are the primary condition dealer, your group will be far faster then a all warrior group with a mesmer lol.

People think the big numbers on warriors are the end all be all dps in this game…. yet they forget to account for how many times you have to back away from a boss to keep from getting killed, when your dodging or kiting your not dpsing for most melee class’s.

While a necro will continue to do strong dps throughout the fight. If you were to have a damage meter that measured overall damage on a boss for a 5-10 minute fight garantee the necro would be at the top every time.

A full cond speced necro is putting out at 25 stacks of bleed around 3600 damage per second…. now add in their poison damage, the vuln stacks they put up, weakness they add, and their direct damage….. only fools think necros are unwanted or unneeded in groups.

And only fools think their dps is low.

Namu.5712:

Necro’s are amazing in dungeons not only for their support but for their massive debuffing and condition damage. If you run with an organized group where you are the primary condition dealer, your group will be far faster then a all warrior group with a mesmer lol.

People think the big numbers on warriors are the end all be all dps in this game…. yet they forget to account for how many times you have to back away from a boss to keep from getting killed, when your dodging or kiting your not dpsing for most melee class’s.

While a necro will continue to do strong dps throughout the fight. If you were to have a damage meter that measured overall damage on a boss for a 5-10 minute fight garantee the necro would be at the top every time.

A full cond speced necro is putting out at 25 stacks of bleed around 3600 damage per second…. now add in their poison damage, the vuln stacks they put up, weakness they add, and their direct damage….. only fools think necros are unwanted or unneeded in groups.

And only fools think their dps is low.

A) Main condition needs to maintain 15-20 bleeds or 10+ and burning or confusion, necro cant do that on a reliable basis like thief – Lotus caltrops, warriors – S/S or Rangers – if not even looking at pet potential just shortbow spam; it is the secondary condition user that holds the utility (chill, cripple, weakness, poison, blind) and condition control, all where necros are epic, thus no, if possible a necro shouldnt be the main condition damage dealer unless the other person is vastly undergeared.
P.S. – the only way 25 stacks can be held on a boss with necro is with depleted power crystals~
B) If you wanna bet i can show you that by supporting a zerk warrior with WoB, Transfusion, Invigoration, Mark of Blood, Blind/Weakness/Chill he will do more than you could with your “strong dps” if not twice as much, also why would a warrior need to stop being useful to heal up if he can just swap to either one of his ranged weapons or if full melee mace/shield and tank like a boss for a while?
C) Despite all said above, if combined with a high single target bleeder (ranger, warrior, ele) epidemic+high cond damage does make a a exception to the rule but just because its Epi-demi-c.

Midgardener.6701:

Regardless of one might personally opine (or try to prove with real numbers) about Necromancers in dungeon runs, the lack of any sort of response from the OP makes me think this is more about seeking excitable reactions than an actual quest for useful discourse or substance.

TLDR; OP is trolling Necro players for some reason or another. Please do not feed any longer.

why do i have to be trolling just because i dont respond? im reading. everyone just lists off all of necros spells and on paper they are ok spells but you would never use them because compared to your main epidemic build they are complete crap. “with healing power you heal for a ton” uh no you dont it heals for dog crap and you just wasted a stat on healing power. i would rather have a mes in my group over a necro any day, any way you slice it.

Kristine Heath.1483:

Midgardener.6701:

Regardless of one might personally opine (or try to prove with real numbers) about Necromancers in dungeon runs, the lack of any sort of response from the OP makes me think this is more about seeking excitable reactions than an actual quest for useful discourse or substance.

TLDR; OP is trolling Necro players for some reason or another. Please do not feed any longer.

why do i have to be trolling just because i dont respond? im reading. everyone just lists off all of necros spells and on paper they are ok spells but you would never use them because compared to your main epidemic build they are complete crap. “with healing power you heal for a ton” uh no you dont it heals for dog crap and you just wasted a stat on healing power. i would rather have a mes in my group over a necro any day, any way you slice it.

So I see you’ve found the One Build To Rule Them All. Care to share with the rest of the class?

Kristine Heath.1483:

why do i have to be trolling just because i dont respond? im reading. everyone just lists off all of necros spells and on paper they are ok spells but you would never use them because compared to your main epidemic build they are complete crap. “with healing power you heal for a ton” uh no you dont it heals for dog crap and you just wasted a stat on healing power. i would rather have a mes in my group over a necro any day, any way you slice it.

Actually, with healing power you can have WoB heal other classes for nearly twice what their own heal will do, while providing a light field for them to use finishers on to cleanse conditions; this can be done every 32 seconds while traited. During that time, you can be spamming MoB, healing for 1k every 4.8 seconds. Transfusion trait can also be used to heal for 2k every 40 seconds. Its really not that hard to heal and support your team with healing power, especially if you can heal yourself for 13k HP, and your team for 7k HP every 30 seconds.

Saintly.8062:

Red Falcon.8257:

Necro = Low DPS, shallow support

Multiple darkness fields (lifesteal/blindness), poison, weakness, condition control…

Anyone got any hard numbers on that lifesteal? Given that the most effective lifesteal in the game at present seems to be a consumable, and it still only produce numbers in the 3 digit range while incoming damage at the upper end can be measured in 5 digits, i can’t say i expect it to mean much (especially as most projectile finishers are the 20% kind, and whirl is random to say the least).

And the only really effective blindness in this game is the pulsating field kind. And necromancers have exactly one of those (on a minute long cooldown). the rest will counter exactly one attack and only stack in duration.

Poison is only meaningful in PVP, as mobs rarely if ever heal.

weakness is cool, but not something necros can spread like candy.

as for condition control, our major thing there from a group support perspective is at present broken (or working as intended with a badly worded tooltip, given how long it takes to get fixed). Leaving us as the one trick typhoid mary. And with the hardcap on conditions in the first place, may as well bring another AOE direct damage toon instead.