Guild Wars 2

It appears many players here do not quite understand that the main strength of a necro on GW lied in defensive/offensive hexing (with cover hexes rivalled by no other), and later on in team support (most notably from the foul feast and plague sending or ff+plague signet combination in 4v4 arenas and occasionally in gvg). I won’t go into blood spike because that was only broken on certain maps, and even that because in the past prots wouldn’t trigger on life-steal skills.
A minion master was viable in actual pvp ONLY when it was completely broken (the old jagged horror build), and it wasn’t minions per se that were broken, but especially the constant bleeding they inflicted with their normal attacks , and the ease of resummoning new ones (1s cast opposed to >1s casts on most minion skills). Combined with the hex and poison pressure, you had some massive degen going on with minions bashing on everyone and adding to that pressure significantly. Next to that there was the damage from death nova on their deaths, and you could observe teams literally imploding to such builds, if that nec was left unharrassed.

Because hexes are not part of GW2, everything the necro class is left with is condition control along with minions. As many have noted, minions are rather subpar (but I do believe you can make some solid solo builds as a death necro), so it is (party!) condition control where the necro shines most, and thus they’re by nature best off in groups, be it small or big. A group as such should offer you proper support so you don’t simply implode whenever your ds isn’t ready.
Having said that, compared with other classes, who have access to gap closers, stealth, teleports (spectral walk is too one-dimensional and has a recharge too long to be really useful) and invulnerability, necro defenses really are rather subpar and should be improved in one way or the other.
Do avoid glorifying the MM necro of GW as some amazing build though. It couldn’t be less true.

HellHeart.4391:

Running a dagger/focus lifesteal/Deathshroud necro and Ive yet to be killed 1v1 on WvW. Ive done a lot of 1v1 against Bunker ele’s too.

I guess people have to specify which necro build needs to be worked on because it’d be tad unfair for people who’re running a necro and is having fun.

I don’t suppose you’d mind posting your build? I’m curious as to how effective a lifesteal build can be in WvW.

Kravick.4906:

I don’t suppose you’d mind posting your build? I’m curious as to how effective a lifesteal build can be in WvW.

Here’s what I run around with. My Build

I honestly cant say if the lifesteals are helping me a lot due to having a lot of green numbers showing up and I cant tell which is which. My reason to using lifesteal traits is just me who got used to Warrior’s passive regen. I survive decently enough in the middle of an enemy zerg just managing conditions and Death shroud. I deal solid 1k-3k damage on deathshroud depending on opponent and lifeforce left.

In anycase, if you have more questions. I guess we could discuss this via PM as we might de-rail the thread.

Does anyone else see the word fact typed in all caps like that and immediately assume the opposite?

HellHeart.4391:

Kravick.4906:

I don’t suppose you’d mind posting your build? I’m curious as to how effective a lifesteal build can be in WvW.

Here’s what I run around with. My Build

I honestly cant say if the lifesteals are helping me a lot due to having a lot of green numbers showing up and I cant tell which is which. My reason to using lifesteal traits is just me who got used to Warrior’s passive regen. I survive decently enough in the middle of an enemy zerg just managing conditions and Death shroud. I deal solid 1k-3k damage on deathshroud depending on opponent and lifeforce left.

In anycase, if you have more questions. I guess we could discuss this via PM as we might de-rail the thread.

Bad link, could you post again, would also rly like to see it

idk how ppl QQ about necro’s i made a lvl 1 and only played it in spvp and i loved it, i literally lol’ed as people popped all my marks and spread them to everyone else one of the most fun classes in GW2 imo

What are you talking about? The necro makes life hell for another player. He might not get the burst dmg or burst heal that some classes have but that necro will make you blow cooldowns trying to get off all these conditions they KEEP placing on you no matter what! Plus you are talking about dedicated healers or dps’ers in guild wars 2?

I love it when people get on forums and yell….Look at me I have played every mmo since Everquest and I have all level capped toons across the board. There are always people like you who when they dont see major crits on their screen with a certain class they get upset with the class. Go back to playing WoW OP if you want to feel so distinguished in a party or guild.

brogarn.8723:

Does anyone else see the word fact typed in all caps like that and immediately assume the opposite?

Oh and this….

UO was 15 years ago and some of your ‘facts’ are opinions. That being said.. I would agree that necromancer class has some issues.

You probably need to fix yourself. You just can’t play necro and you ask for a fix on something that works fine (ok, minion AI is bad, but they’re still better then any other summoned ally, and they’re not your main mechanic)

Just by using a staff and the trait for larger symbols, a necro is probably the bast aoe ranged class in WvW, expecially when defending a castle. You can get something like 20-30 loot bags in just 1 event.
Your problem is probably that you try to play necro as you did with your ranger, but they’re not the same class. You need to focus on large areas, death shroud and conditions.

Minions are completely useless in wvw. Just don’t use them.

Manticore Five.9867:

kuora.5402:

When I’m defending a keep, it is not rangers or eles that enemies try to focus, it’s me, who spreads conditions like crazy with epidemic, corrupt boon… etc.

Psst. You aren’t being focused because everyone is a-tremble at your l33t bleed spreading, you’re being focused because you’re an easy victim, with no blocks, invulnerability or stealth options.

What was that word for people who are so terribad that they think they must be awesome?

Easy victim? The class with the highest HP in the game, maybe with an impressive toughness thenks to it’s traits and also an almost infinite death shroud pool (with my build)? A ranged aoe class that can hit from INSIDE the walls? You clearly never played (correctly) necro in wvw.

also lol @ invulnerability and stealth options. as if they’re required to rule in wvw.

@ kuora.5402
I totally agree with your post.

The Mentalism Mentalist in Daoc would like to have a word with you.

The necro is as bad as you play it. I play a gimped dagger warhorn axe focus build and I die quite a bit but it’s not as bad as the OP makes it sound.

l2p and quit making the world sound worse than it is. If you die alot try something different.

That is all.

Just got hit by a thief for 6,000+ damage twice with heartseeker (not even backstab)… good thing i have death shroud as a panic button or i would have eaten dirt shortly thereafter.

I then started to whiff away at him with my feather duster (life transfer) and he vanished.

Level 80 Necro, full exotics.

Guess this is what A-net means by class balance.

This is just depressing, even though I survived.

Think i will stick to the Mesmer and continue levelling up my Thief.

Avigrus.2871:

QQ […]
Guess this is what A-net means by class balance. QQ […]

Rock. Paper. Scissors.

I dont play Necro, though its prob my next class when im done leveling mesmer. I currently have 4 lvl 80s, ive put a good 1200 hours in so far (addictions a kitten) and I think people forget that this game isnt 1 on 1. I know we like to say it is, act like it is and even type like it is, but its not. I use S/P thief and D/D ele mostly for wvw, sometimes my ranger but never my guard. In all my experience, I can say I love fighting Necros for the most part because I just simply crush them. However, with all the Necro killing ive done I had 2 experience which changed my perception of them. First was an actual 1v1 scenario (again these are rare in wvw) and my thief laid a beating on a running Necro. After giving him the business, he was still alive and I guess figured he couldnt run away or he had just noticed me I dunno honestly but he decided to turn it into a fight that ill never forget (obviously). Not only could I not burst him down, but he actually dropped wells onto his location nonstop and made me fight from range, in which he dominated me. Usually I dodge those stupid AoE but how he did it, there was no way to attack him and his silly offensensive defense stopped me. Whatever. Second experience, I fought a combo of 2 Necros and a mesmer that I swear came from hell. I dont like ganking, but 6 then 8 of us went at them and they were a wall of death. no surviving, no condition curing was enough and we just dropped like flies. only our little engi put up a fight. Sorry for the nonsense post im super tired forgive me… point is, Necro isnt trash its just the knight piece of guild wars 2

Yes, nonstop wells. That is what makes necro great.

This guy and the one who just can’t get it into his head how the ability to drop out of being focus fired is relevant to being focus fired are necro’s defenders.

Welcome to the short bus of the GW2 classes.

I second what someone said about the necro being UP.

OP:

The necro is a bit lame for pve, but it can be a beast in spvp and WvW.

First I strongly dislike when people start a thread with “I played all the classes to lvl 80”. You know what it tells me?

You don’t have a clue about most of them though cause you’ve been playing on all of them and didn’t learn the specifics of most.

I’m not going to be an hypocrite and say the necro doesn’t have some problems mainly with pets but then again imo pets are best left out of pvp environments.

Simply put (and I’m not going to give you a lectoring here) if you know what you’re doing the necro can be the best bunker build for pvp.

Second it can as someone mentioned be one if not the best condition spec (with very useful aoe’s) in pvp.

You can ask any experienced player and I also play a necro so I know what I’m saying.

3rd – Necros aren’t meant to be built as a glass cannon class, but that is only my opinion since they benefit alot from toughness and vitality and are usually better at wars of attrition.

you can ofc spec glass but then youre a caster and will have a hard time staying alive specially if you dont invest heavily in the DS tree.

Necros are a major power in pvp. Not in pve. So they are far from sucking like you imply.

I think OP can confirm, it’s way too easy to troll these forums…

Agenteusa.6380:

I second what someone said about the necro being UP.

OP:

The necro is a bit lame for pve, but it can be a beast in spvp and WvW.

First I strongly dislike when people start a thread with “I played all the classes to lvl 80”. You know what it tells me?

You don’t have a clue about most of them though cause you’ve been playing on all of them and didn’t learn the specifics of most.

I’m not going to be an hypocrite and say the necro doesn’t have some problems mainly with pets but then again imo pets are best left out of pvp environments.

Simply put (and I’m not going to give you a lectoring here) if you know what you’re doing the necro can be the best bunker build for pvp.

Second it can as someone mentioned be one if not the best condition spec (with very useful aoe’s) in pvp.

You can ask any experienced player and I also play a necro so I know what I’m saying.

3rd – Necros aren’t meant to be built as a glass cannon class, but that is only my opinion since they benefit alot from toughness and vitality and are usually better at wars of attrition.

you can ofc spec glass but then youre a caster and will have a hard time staying alive specially if you dont invest heavily in the DS tree.

Necros are a major power in pvp. Not in pve. So they are far from sucking like you imply.

Disagree with the PvE part – i find Necro’s to be really strong in PvE – the only class stronger is my 80 Ranger and he can solo several Champion encounters.

This is what frustrates me – you say Necro’s aren’t meant to be glass cannon – we should only be bunker/condition.

How is it that every other class in the game has viable alternatives, yet we’re pidgeon holed into conditions/wells. Wells are entirely situational and are easily dodged. Conditions are easily cured. I agree that Necro’s are far from broken, but i beleive we are in need of attention from the development team.

I have been quite successful in WvW on my Necro, but it would be nice to have some versatility (options – like other classes have) and some bugs and issues fixed – you would think that the minion AI issues would be an important thing to fix, given that one of our elite abilities only works about 50% of the time.

Look at how many options the Elementalist has in terms of playstyle – currently levelling one up and there are so many options it’s almost unbelievable.

Then you say “imo pets are best left out of pvp environments” – why? Why should we disregard such a major component of our class – would you ask the same of rangers? So many of our spells, and even an elite and several traits focus on our pets, so i’m not sure why we should disregard that.

Avigrus.2871:

Just got hit by a thief for 6,000+ damage twice

You got some kittenty traits then. also lol @ “full ex”. you can have a full ex and still 0 toughness, meaning you take full damage from hits.
However with 6000×2 dmg you still have death shroud and half hp. An elementalist would have been already dead (same armor class but only 10-12k hp).

I’ve seen necro tanks, and it’s not so rare. Learn to dodge and find yourself a decent build.

@Agenteusa.6380:
rofling so much after reading that necro is a “glass cannon” when it’s probably one of the strongest tanks in the game after guardian and maybe warrior. great healing, great hp (meaning you just need to stack toughness), death shroud (almost neverending if you have a good build).

Kidel.2057:

@Agenteusa.6380:
rofling so much after reading that necro is a “glass cannon” when it’s probably one of the strongest tanks in the game after guardian and maybe warrior.

Ummm…

Necro ranks just after Guardian, Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, and Mesmer (which it’s possible to get a 97% damage reduction with) in terms of tanking ability. Nowhere near ‘strongest’ in the game.

Elementalist and Guardian are the strongest tanks in the game. Necros are not bad here either – it’s probably one of the benefits of the class.

Have you ever tried to kill a bunker Elementalist? Freaking ridiculous.

My traits are 10/30/30/0/0 – recently re-specced to try something different.

Yeah, my toughness is lacking a bit – i only have +330, but i still find the damage output on heartseeker to be offensive. Just my opinion anyway.

TBH, haven’t played the class in a couple of months because i have a level 80 Mesmer now, which is like easy mode compared to my Necro. Took the Necro out for a run to try some re-specced traits.

Necro is still golden in keep defence/offence.

Go complain to an engineer.

Craptrain.7203:

Kidel.2057:

@Agenteusa.6380:
rofling so much after reading that necro is a “glass cannon” when it’s probably one of the strongest tanks in the game after guardian and maybe warrior.

Ummm…

Necro ranks just after Guardian, Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, and Mesmer (which it’s possible to get a 97% damage reduction with) in terms of tanking ability. Nowhere near ‘strongest’ in the game.

Pretty sure necros are still better then mesmers and eles at tanking. Not saying they’re not good, lol. But a necro has aoe statuses (opponent offense reduction), impressive health, minions (to cripple, damage, slow down and be a decoy for foes AND increase your toughness with traits) and DEATH SHROUD.
Attack, gain life force, receive an attack, gain life force, heal, gain life force, death shroud (invincible), it ends, skills are recharged and you’re still at 100%.
You need traits and good utils for that, but it’s possible.

we’re one of few classes who can handle the walls + epidemic is INSANE in wvw.

Liewec.2896:

we’re one of few classes who can handle the walls + epidemic is INSANE in wvw.

If just staff + greater marks wasn’t enough.

I couldnt agree more with you OP.
I bought this game months ago for the new quest system they implented and especially for the necromancer class.
After reaching lvl 80 i got so sick of it.The flaws were just numerous but i said to myself “meh its ok im sure Anet will eventually make fixes”.

I was wrong again.Major issues like the pet A.I.,fear and overall the synergy of most necromancer skills are still a pressing issue.

I REALLY love the concept of the necromancer and while i searched other MMOs just to experience the gamestyle of the necro i have to say,just like the OP said, GW’s 2 necro is by far the worst.Honestly i have reached the point to say that Anet net has to be “sued” by the playerbase for destroying such an awesome class >_>

Kidel.2057:

Craptrain.7203:

Kidel.2057:

@Agenteusa.6380:
rofling so much after reading that necro is a “glass cannon” when it’s probably one of the strongest tanks in the game after guardian and maybe warrior.

Ummm…

Necro ranks just after Guardian, Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, and Mesmer (which it’s possible to get a 97% damage reduction with) in terms of tanking ability. Nowhere near ‘strongest’ in the game.

Pretty sure necros are still better then mesmers and eles at tanking. Not saying they’re not good, lol. But a necro has aoe statuses (opponent offense reduction), impressive health, minions (to cripple, damage, slow down and be a decoy for foes AND increase your toughness with traits) and DEATH SHROUD.
Attack, gain life force, receive an attack, gain life force, heal, gain life force, death shroud (invincible), it ends, skills are recharged and you’re still at 100%.
You need traits and good utils for that, but it’s possible.

No, I can say that unequivocally elementalists and bunker mesmers survive a lot longer than ‘bunker’ necros. Like I said, a mesmer with traits, staff and Illusionary Defender can achieve a 97% damage reduction and can keep that up for quite awhile. They will and do last a lot longer than any necro would under similar pressure. Elementalist should be obvious. No sane team would take a bunker necro over a bunker ele, ever.

Craptrain.7203:

Kidel.2057:

Craptrain.7203:

Kidel.2057:

@Agenteusa.6380:
rofling so much after reading that necro is a “glass cannon” when it’s probably one of the strongest tanks in the game after guardian and maybe warrior.

Ummm…

Necro ranks just after Guardian, Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, and Mesmer (which it’s possible to get a 97% damage reduction with) in terms of tanking ability. Nowhere near ‘strongest’ in the game.

Pretty sure necros are still better then mesmers and eles at tanking. Not saying they’re not good, lol. But a necro has aoe statuses (opponent offense reduction), impressive health, minions (to cripple, damage, slow down and be a decoy for foes AND increase your toughness with traits) and DEATH SHROUD.
Attack, gain life force, receive an attack, gain life force, heal, gain life force, death shroud (invincible), it ends, skills are recharged and you’re still at 100%.
You need traits and good utils for that, but it’s possible.

No, I can say that unequivocally elementalists and bunker mesmers survive a lot longer than ‘bunker’ necros. Like I said, a mesmer with traits, staff and Illusionary Defender can achieve a 97% damage reduction and can keep that up for quite awhile. They will and do last a lot longer than any necro would under similar pressure. Elementalist should be obvious. No sane team would take a bunker necro over a bunker ele, ever.

This.

Well played Bunker Eles are impossible to kill….

Morvian.3270:

Where does the Necro need work?

1.) Minions. While I don’t agree that we are “pet class,” minions are clearly not doing everything they should be right now. A lot of the problem is the AI. Minions are 100% useless when they aren’t attacking anything. There’s also the issue that most of them aren’t valuable even if they work. Blood Fiend, Bone Fiend, and Shadow Fiend never enter my skill bar. Then there’s player expectations. I don’t think we will ever see a “minion master” build be very good. I think minions were designed to be used 1 or 2 at a time to help out other builds, not to be the focus of a build themselves. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I doubt that I am. Even with all these issues, Flesh Worm and Flesh Golem are in my sPvP build and I’ve found them to be worth keeping.

Well if you look at how many traits there are for minions I kinda doubt they’re all there to just use on 1 pet and lose on other traits coz of that 1-2 pets. So on that count I’d say you’re wrong, pet master was intended to be a viable build, otherwise you’d just have pets with hardly any traits to buff them if they were meant as a minor support for other builds.

Anyway, besides the crap pets, necros aren’t half bad. Maybe they need a tad of changes here and there, but they’re not as bad as OP makes them to be.

I couldn’t help but laugh and make this image.

FASTCAR.7831:

Forgot 1 thing : In ALL other MMOs ,necro gets the best ( usually only)longest fear spell.Ours is useless and warriors is much better.

Just sad.

you get two spammable fears on any default build (Doom, and the staff mark) which are instant cast and have a huge range. if you cant see the benefit in that then you will forever be a noob.

necro is sick in this game. Death Shroud is such a cool mechanic, especially if youre power spec. most utilities are useful, all weapons except axe are interesting. dunno, i love the necro.

Xsorus.2507:

…I think most Necro’s aren’t taking Advantage of their F2 ability…

(Emphasis mine)

What F2 ability?

Do you even play necromancer at all?

Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?

What F2 ability?

What are you, an idiot? What are you even doing on the necromancer forums when you obviously have no idea what necromancers are or do?

What F2 ability?

Aoi Ikazuchi.8420:

Xsorus.2507:

…I think most Necro’s aren’t taking Advantage of their F2 ability…

(Emphasis mine)

What F2 ability?

Do you even play necromancer at all?

Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?

What F2 ability?

What are you, an idiot? What are you even doing on the necromancer forums when you obviously have no idea what necromancers are or do?

What F2 ability?

Thats the joke.