Guild Wars 2

Lopez.7369:

Dagger 2 is supposed to be for survivability, and it’s great for that. I use it all the time in bad dungeon groups, solo PvE, and PvP.

I would say it is okish. A castime/channeltime reduction to 2,5 seconds would have helped the skill alot and that this didnt happen is a big disappontment in my opinion.

Your opponent is running away from you kiting, you are at half health ds is on cool down staff is on cool down dagger 3 is on cooldown oh look dagger 2!

dagger 2 isnt useless but it does need a buff
1.it could apply aegis every tic or at start of cast (9 stacks of aegis every 12 seconds probably too strong)
2.increase the healing per tic id say at least by 3x maybe up to 5x
3.reduce channel time to like 1 second
1 and 2 would affect the 3 game mode the most as it could make a skilled necro very tanking however leave options for counter play
3. most affect spvp and wvw roaming because now the skill hits hards and is able to active in clutch situations

Dagger 2 is useful when you can’t melee for a little bit, and it heals me for 2.7k per cast, plus 9 procs of Vampiric for 38 each, so just about at the 3k mark. That is completely reasonable, the only buff I’d do to it is reduce its cast time by 0.5-1s.

Isn’t there some trait that buffs our toughness while channeling? And isn’t there another one which turns a % of our toughness into power? I seem to remember something like that a while back concerning the viability of an axw/ x dagger/x build.

Funky.4861:

Isn’t there some trait that buffs our toughness while channeling? And isn’t there another one which turns a % of our toughness into power? I seem to remember something like that a while back concerning the viability of an axw/ x dagger/x build.

Dark Armor = 400 toughness while channeling (axe/dagger 2 and DS 4), and 10% of toughness into power is the 5 point death magic trait.

NeXeD.3042:

Your opponent is running away from you kiting, you are at half health ds is on cool down staff is on cool down dagger 3 is on cooldown oh look dagger 2!

Yes, when literally everything else is unusuable, and they are not in melee range, the ONLY THING LEFT will be used. Doesn’t make it not awful, and have hilariously bad synergy with how the dagger otherwise operates.

How does it have bad synergy? Dagger is not a pure DPS weapon, despite what the lack of one on Necromancer might tell you. It happens to be our best DPS weapon, but at its core it is a melee sustain weapon, and Dagger 2 gives very nice sustain.

the fact that it only has that use is why i feel like it need a little buff

reducing the cast time by 1 second would probably be good enough

in terms of sustain the simple evade can avoid tons of damage in pve
i know that they operate differently but the point is there

side note alternatively it could provide regeneration boon per tick
let say 1 second of regeneration per successful hit totaling for 9 second
kinda like that one

Just wondering…. will axe actually be viable in PvP or PvE after the changes or will it still be crap?

Pride.1734:

Just wondering…. will axe actually be viable in PvP or PvE after the changes or will it still be crap?

It will still be crap for power necros in pvp unless as an alternate to staff (which is bad because you’d need axe training over chill of death).

For PvE, dagger will be better because of the cleave and higher damage with buffs in a 6/6/0/0/2 setup, but pug-friendly DS builds may use it as a pug tactic for the lifeblast damage modifier, but only use it for the slightly better 2 skill and lifeblasts.

So same old inferior to staff & inverior to dagger? Man thats a pitty :/

Poplolita.2638:

Roe.3679:

We, as a profession community, had left so, so much feedback, much of it overall balanced for ourselves and the good of the game.

We got about a third of what we should have, and the nerf to lich duration brings the overall quality of the patch from a Necro perspective down.

It’s not just that. Go to the guardian subforum. And then compare it to this one.
Anet basically did everything guardians asked for. They buffed a profession which is already good in every game mode. The change they made for guardian is basically what they should have done for necromancer. I don’t get that, and I pretty much feel offended at this point. I might as well talk with a wall. They even completly disregarded your amazing “list of traits/skill they should change” which is really sad.

If you actually played a guardian you would realize that most of the changes won’t actually change anything.

The only guardian change they made that will matter at all is making merciful intervention ground targetable & even then it’s a small AOE which requires an ally inside it.

As far as quality of life things go, both the necro & the guardian could use some love for several of their weapons.

Bhawb.7408:

How does it have bad synergy? Dagger is not a pure DPS weapon, despite what the lack of one on Necromancer might tell you. It happens to be our best DPS weapon, but at its core it is a melee sustain weapon, and Dagger 2 gives very nice sustain.

True but it is too slow, i think it needs a channeltime reduction to 2 1/2 seconds…

It having low dps is less then ideal, but even if it was great damage, the synergy still isn’t there, simply because the dagger is fundamentally a melee weapon. Dagger 3 is fantastic for helping you get into, and remain in melee range, the warhorn (based buff to locust swarm)and even the focus also work well with this in mind (dagger off hand eh, not so much). It’s all about getting into melee, staying there, and stabbing things.

But then you see dagger 2, a ranged, slow channel, that contributes in zero way to melee combat, and is best used OUTSIDE of melee range, to minimize damage. But then the channel is over, and suddenly you need to be in melee range again. Everyone other melee weapon except I think guardian GS and warrior axe(which are both pAOEs and therefore maximise their potential at melee range) have melee skills as their 2. Hell, basically all skills on all melee weapons either are melee attacks or benefit from, or help to stay in, melee range.

If our 2 was a movement skill (even just heart seeker tier range), caused some level of cripple chill or was just you know, a melee skill, then yes, it would have synergy. Sadly, it does not.

Edit: So yes, they could buff it to the point where I would actively WANT to use it, but I still wouldn’t like it, because it’s poorly thought out, and exists there pretty much because ‘dagger is in the bloodmagic line’.

hey with the axe change we can now apply vulnerability quicker at 600 range while pvp predicts that we should be at a minimum of 900 range to be considered “good at positioning”. In comparison: #2 skills on other professions that apply vulnerability at 700-900 + range going up top 1200 (rapid fire/quick application)

So necro applies 2 stacks of vulnerability spam (quickest way) trough an AA with an animation time reduction and otherwise sluggish skills and conversion.
Other professions apply vulnerability spam trough #2 rapid fire/ 1200-900 range skills minimum stacks of 5 with short cooldowns. even utilities for necromancer are niche and or only apply 2 stacks on hit.
Now consider all the gapclosers necromancer has..

2 cents. and these numbers are the current numbers ^^

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Poplolita.2638:

Roe.3679:

We, as a profession community, had left so, so much feedback, much of it overall balanced for ourselves and the good of the game.

We got about a third of what we should have, and the nerf to lich duration brings the overall quality of the patch from a Necro perspective down.

It’s not just that. Go to the guardian subforum. And then compare it to this one.
Anet basically did everything guardians asked for. They buffed a profession which is already good in every game mode. The change they made for guardian is basically what they should have done for necromancer. I don’t get that, and I pretty much feel offended at this point. I might as well talk with a wall. They even completly disregarded your amazing “list of traits/skill they should change” which is really sad.

If you actually played a guardian you would realize that most of the changes won’t actually change anything.

The only guardian change they made that will matter at all is making merciful intervention ground targetable & even then it’s a small AOE which requires an ally inside it.

As far as quality of life things go, both the necro & the guardian could use some love for several of their weapons.

How the hell did you come to the conclusion that I don’t play guardian? Also, serious question, are you bad? I mean really, you came up with a post full of misinformations about a class good in every game mode.

No weapons need a quality of life change. You seem to not be aware that quality of life =/= buff.

just my 2 cents. the fact we can now res/stomp in ds is a gamechanger(the forum complaints are what enabled the devs to take this step in my opinion.) I do believe we could get more/will get more, but i think the devs wait to see how much this buff will affect us. Don’t give up on hope!

Most of this are changes that should be done after 2 month, or 3….but the game is 2 years old.

Pelopidas.2140:

just my 2 cents. the fact we can now res/stomp in ds is a gamechanger(the forum complaints are what enabled the devs to take this step in my opinion.) I do believe we could get more/will get more, but i think the devs wait to see how much this buff will affect us. Don’t give up on hope!

ya its gonna be an improvement and i suppose its fair enough that they take it slow

however it would be nice to see another change in 3 months because it wont take 6 month to see how much this affects us

Bhawb.7408:

War Mourner.5168:

One day, I hope, dagger two will not be literally useless. Ideally by completely removing what is there currently, and putting something useful in there. Like a small gap closer, or like, anything that isn’t an awful channeled ability that wastes valuable AA time.

I use dagger 2 all the time. Just because it isn’t part of a DPS rotation doesn’t mean its useless.

It’s great for power builds running fire/air sigils. Easy procs from range, I use it more to proc that than the healing/base damage

Poplolita.2638:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Poplolita.2638:

Roe.3679:

We, as a profession community, had left so, so much feedback, much of it overall balanced for ourselves and the good of the game.

We got about a third of what we should have, and the nerf to lich duration brings the overall quality of the patch from a Necro perspective down.

It’s not just that. Go to the guardian subforum. And then compare it to this one.
Anet basically did everything guardians asked for. They buffed a profession which is already good in every game mode. The change they made for guardian is basically what they should have done for necromancer. I don’t get that, and I pretty much feel offended at this point. I might as well talk with a wall. They even completly disregarded your amazing “list of traits/skill they should change” which is really sad.

If you actually played a guardian you would realize that most of the changes won’t actually change anything.

The only guardian change they made that will matter at all is making merciful intervention ground targetable & even then it’s a small AOE which requires an ally inside it.

As far as quality of life things go, both the necro & the guardian could use some love for several of their weapons.

How the hell did you come to the conclusion that I don’t play guardian? Also, serious question, are you bad? I mean really, you came up with a post full of misinformations about a class good in every game mode.

No weapons need a quality of life change. You seem to not be aware that quality of life =/= buff.

The fact that you don’t think that both guardian & Necro could use some love with weapons & traits tells me all I need to know about your experience.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Poplolita.2638:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Poplolita.2638:

Roe.3679:

We, as a profession community, had left so, so much feedback, much of it overall balanced for ourselves and the good of the game.

We got about a third of what we should have, and the nerf to lich duration brings the overall quality of the patch from a Necro perspective down.

It’s not just that. Go to the guardian subforum. And then compare it to this one.
Anet basically did everything guardians asked for. They buffed a profession which is already good in every game mode. The change they made for guardian is basically what they should have done for necromancer. I don’t get that, and I pretty much feel offended at this point. I might as well talk with a wall. They even completly disregarded your amazing “list of traits/skill they should change” which is really sad.

If you actually played a guardian you would realize that most of the changes won’t actually change anything.

The only guardian change they made that will matter at all is making merciful intervention ground targetable & even then it’s a small AOE which requires an ally inside it.

As far as quality of life things go, both the necro & the guardian could use some love for several of their weapons.

How the hell did you come to the conclusion that I don’t play guardian? Also, serious question, are you bad? I mean really, you came up with a post full of misinformations about a class good in every game mode.

No weapons need a quality of life change. You seem to not be aware that quality of life =/= buff.

The fact that you don’t think that both guardian & Necro could use some love with weapons & traits tells me all I need to know about your experience.

I’m telling you our weapons (Axe and focus) need buffs, not quality of life changes. But ya, go for it, it seems you’re only able to make false assumptions.

Note: The fact you even put guardian at the same level as necromancer in term of balance is disgusting.

Please stop posting before embarrassing yourself further.

Poplolita.2638:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Poplolita.2638:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Poplolita.2638:

Roe.3679:

We, as a profession community, had left so, so much feedback, much of it overall balanced for ourselves and the good of the game.

We got about a third of what we should have, and the nerf to lich duration brings the overall quality of the patch from a Necro perspective down.

It’s not just that. Go to the guardian subforum. And then compare it to this one.
Anet basically did everything guardians asked for. They buffed a profession which is already good in every game mode. The change they made for guardian is basically what they should have done for necromancer. I don’t get that, and I pretty much feel offended at this point. I might as well talk with a wall. They even completly disregarded your amazing “list of traits/skill they should change” which is really sad.

If you actually played a guardian you would realize that most of the changes won’t actually change anything.

The only guardian change they made that will matter at all is making merciful intervention ground targetable & even then it’s a small AOE which requires an ally inside it.

As far as quality of life things go, both the necro & the guardian could use some love for several of their weapons.

How the hell did you come to the conclusion that I don’t play guardian? Also, serious question, are you bad? I mean really, you came up with a post full of misinformations about a class good in every game mode.

No weapons need a quality of life change. You seem to not be aware that quality of life =/= buff.

The fact that you don’t think that both guardian & Necro could use some love with weapons & traits tells me all I need to know about your experience.

I’m telling you our weapons (Axe and focus) need buffs, not quality of life changes. But ya, go for it, it seems you’re only able to make false assumptions.

Note: The fact you even put guardian at the same level as necromancer in term of balance is disgusting.

Please stop posting before embarrassing yourself further.

I don’t put them at the same level of balance.

What I’m saying is they both have a decent number of weapon skills that need fixes/buffs etc… & they both have a decent number of traits that are either broken, terrabad or extremely gimmicky (useless outside of very select situations)

Don’t forget Engis also got turret reflects last Feature patch-
Necros are officialy PvE bottom of the barrel now.

And also they have might stacking and can apply AoE stealth. Along with decent AoE healing and a 2 condition AoE cleanse on their healing turret.

I don’t think the changes are the issue, I think the lack of changes is.
Just look at the massive buffs to most of the other classes,
Power-creep will leave necro pretty low on the food chain.

Liewec.2896:

I don’t think the changes are the issue, I think the lack of changes is.
Just look at the massive buffs to most of the other classes,
Power-creep will leave necro pretty low on the food chain.

Its not like Hambow or S/D thief got buffed, in fact they were nerfed. The overbearing builds were nerfed, with weaker builds getting all the buffs. Power creep happens when buffs aren’t accompanied by nerfs.

They said they were going to increase sustain and all they did was make spectral armour have a 50s instead of a 60s cool down.

Wow that is incredible. It took them 6 months to come up with that. It is truely a very productive 6 months.

So sick and tired of pvp only class balancing. It is wearing thin.

the only thing im kittened about is the lich nerf.every class has 3 or 4 super great elites they can choose from. we have like 2 for pve use and possible 3 for pvp.IMO ( read that carefully) lich was by far the best elite we had,and one of the best things we had period.now their nerfing it.10 seconds is actually a huge nerf.sp you keep the damage basically the same,reduce its duration,but no reduction in the skill cooldown? to me again IMO,this is a big f you to the nec players.

Not complaining about the lich form at all. In pvp you rarely stay in lich form for all 30 secs anway. Seems more like a PvE nerf to me. but then again it should scale better with might stacks now so it might actually be a buff.

What we realy needed was group support or unique debuffs/ damage mupltipliers. Or you know just anything that makes Necros usefull in groups.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Roe.3679:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Again, let yourself be heard, let Anet know you are discontent, but don’t shove this off as if this “was nothing”… it is not, if anything, this can be a start of something good!

If this was a balance patch that we got after 2 months, I’d be crazy excited. But it’s taken 5 months.

Again, I feel the same, do not ever assume I do not… However, I look at the past, and I look at the changes given, and trust me, that past does not look as pretty as this… We had nothing that could lead to a path of improvement, unlike now… Yes, Blood Magic did not get touched upon, but do you have a general idea how it should work? I usually think back about the Necromancer’s blood magic in GW1, and realize that there was way more to it (Losing health to damaging enemies is a good example), and there is no way to implement this well within the current traitlist…

I’ve actually got a few ideas;

-Barbed Aura; (Adept Minor Trait) When you are hit, you have a chance to cause bleeding.

-Strenght from the Shroud; (Replaces Deathly Invigoration) For the first 3 seconds you’re in deathshroud, the Life force you lose is given to you as health. 30s cooldown

-Lifebane Strike; (Replaces Vampiric Precision) Life Blast steals health equal to it’s damage. 10s cooldown

- New Grandmaster; Awaken the Blood; Your bleeds deal 20% more damage.

-Order of Pain;(Replaces Dagger Mastery) Enemies affected by Tainted Shackles take 10% extra damage from allies.

-Demonic Claws; (Replaces Quickening Thirst) Your Axe skills now also deal damage to enemies within a 180 radius of your target. Max 3 targets.

-Spoil Victor;(Grand Master Minor Trait) Do additional damage the lower your health is.
Below 90% do 5% more damage
Below 75% do 10% more damage
Below 50% do 15% more damage
Below 25% do 20% more damage

-Blood of the Aggressor; (Replaces Ritual of Life) When you lose more than 10% of your health from one skill Steal health from that foe and apply weakness (5s). 10s cooldown

-Vampiric Swarm; (Replaces Bloodthirst) Locust Swarm also steals health and has a larger radius. Radius increase to 180. Gain Locust Swarm at 25% health.

Bring Sexy back; Replace all your traits with good traits Make up for all the things you lack.

Dirame.8521:

I’ve actually got a few ideas;

-Barbed Aura; When you are hit, you have a chance to cause bleeding.

-Strenght from the Shroud; For the first 5 seconds you’re in deathshroud, the Life force you lose is given to you as health. 30s cooldown

-Lifebane Strike; Life Blast steals health equal to it’s damage.

- Grandmaster; Awaken the Blood; Your bleeds deal 33% more damage. Every time you cause bleed, lose 1% of your life force or lose health instead (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!)

-Order of Pain; Enemies affected with Tainted Shackles take 10% extra damage from allies.

-Demonic Claws; Your Axe skills now deal damage to enemies within a 180 radius of your target.

-Spoil Victor; Do additional damage the lower your health is.
Below 90% do 5% more damage
Below 75% do 10% more damage
Below 50% do 20% more damage
Below 25% do 50% more damage (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAA!)
Below 10% you’re practically dead so why even try? Do 100% more damage.

-Blood of the Aggressor; When you lose more than 10% of your health from one skill Steal health from that foe and apply weakness (5s). 10s cooldown

-Vampiric Swarm; Locust Swarm also steals health and has a larger radius. Radius increase to 180.

Bring Sexy back; Make up for all the things you lack.

Now here are some awesome ideas! Granted, I lack the talent and creativity to come up with some things myself, even if a game like GW1 gives a beautiful outline of how skills can be balanced…

I am a big fan of the suggested Barbed Aura, Awaken Blood and Order of pain… The first two give a really nice example of how Blood Magic can work, it activates on something “unpleasant” or gives an effect you’d rather not want…
The latter is something I really want to have in terms of PvE – I personally opted a reworked Mark of Pain since this was one of my favourite skills to run on my Necromancer… It had everything, it synergized with specific comps, was not completely OP since it hit “adjecent” foes, rather than Barbs which was single targetted (Which would be awesome against bosses, but hey)…
Order of Pain would give a party wide party boost on a skill that exists in the game! It could be AoE (5 targets) or single targetted, which makes it a pretty nice version of MoP and Barbs bundled together… Maybe Tainted Shackles would require some finetuning then, as a buff for kitten (?) on a 40 second cooldown is pretty meh, though it is still not a bad skill in PvP since the damage and the immob are quite good… Then again, a trait like this forces you to go into a defensive line – I don’t know how much this tells in practice since most, if not all, Warrior PvP builds do the same – but you could lower the CD as well by traiting for this…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I don’t know how much this tells in practice since most, if not all, Warrior PvP builds do the same

That’s the thing about Necros, everyone keeps screaming “We need more sustain in PvP” but those same people want to keep the amount of damage they can do. And what they may or may not realize is that they will end up becoming the Warriors and Eles of tomorrow.
The good thing is, there’s no real way for the Necro to stack a lot of might without sacrificing utility slots or getting help from Warriors and Eles, which would serve to balance things out but the sustainability and damage of the necro would be relatively good if they made changes using what I listed above. And that could lead to problems of it’s own which I can’t fully grasp yet.

Dirame.8521:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I don’t know how much this tells in practice since most, if not all, Warrior PvP builds do the same

That’s the thing about Necros, everyone keeps screaming “We need more sustain in PvP” but those same people want to keep the amount of damage they can do. And what they may or may not realize is that they will end up becoming the Warriors and Eles of tomorrow.
The good thing is, there’s no real way for the Necro to stack a lot of might without sacrificing utility slots or getting help from Warriors and Eles, which would serve to balance things out but the sustainability and damage of the necro would be relatively good if they made changes using what I listed above. And that could lead to problems of it’s own which I can’t fully grasp yet.

Exactly the gripe I have with most of the complaints… What I see is a bunch of people saying “We need more sustain” but what in reality the posts are saying is, “We want to sacrifice none of our current damage and still get a better time surviving in the middle of a teamfight”…
I am fairly aware that Necromancers have poor scaling defenses (DS being the worst contender), and I also know that for the one teleport that Fleshworm gives, other classes get things like invulns and if that is not enough, reflects and/or simply insane mobility… People hate fighting classes with idiotic sustain or escapability when doing nice damage – it is already becomming clear with the amounts of threads crying about Celestial+Strength/Hoelbrak/Pirate needing a nerf because some builds can become simply broken and thus not fun to play against… Or to play as, the only thing that is remotely fun to me is a 3-Kit engi running with no stunbreaks… Worst part? Most of these builds are specced in defense, with the sole exception of indeed the 3-Kit builld (ironically)…

The reason why I hate, and I main a Warrior, but why I absolutely screamingly hate fighting a Warrior is because it does not make any freaking sense at all as to what they do! Specced for sustain, and dealing a lot, if not some of the best sustained damage in the game? It destroys the thoughts of drawbacks of traiting in a specific line – And the last thing I want is Necromancers to follow the same path… Imagine if Siphons scaled with Power (as someone suggested) going through Deathshroud as well… You’d get idiotic builds specced in defense, dealing a ton of damage without ever having to “feel” as if you have a drawback to your build, or even worse, without ever needing to look at your healing skill (Warriors ringing a bell?)

On the flipside of this coin, the only classes I can comfortably fight any class with in 1v1’s, 2v1’s and 2v2’s on a point are Warrior, Elementalist, Engineer (to some extend) and Necromancer… While it is true that a Necromancer cannot get away from a fight easily, it is also one of the easier classes to send to a node of yours, or a free node from the enemy, to cap it and wait for an enemy to come up… Usually, a Necromancer will either win or buy enough time for support to come – depending on your situation an actual support class or damage class… Even when specced for damage, it is not the worst class to pick to take up on this job…
There need to be things reworked, that is for sure, such as our poor scaling of our defense (DS), not letting DS work against our own work (Regenerations and Siphons), and maybe look at a way to, like many classes, get away from a fight when needed (And not becomming the first target on any team) – but people also need to realize that, if we want our class to not get nerfed again, we need to be careful of what we wish for… Granting more “sustain” on already powerful builds, or letting the Necromancer end up becomming a second Warrior/Ele who dominate most fights they are in because of their insane sustain might let us end up seeing another year filled with nerfs and nothing but nerfs…

… I personally need to stop typing essays when replying to someone or expressing my point…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

… I personally need to stop typing essays when replying to someone or expressing my point…

Heh, what you’re saying is interesting enough and cohesive enough that reading everything isn’t a chore. So that’s good!

I also find it easy to hold a 2v1 with a Necro because of all the soft CC and hard CC the class has. It’s incredible how much survivability the Necro has when you factor in all those CCs + Deathshroud and, if you run it, plagueform. Allow the Necro to have All heals go through deathshroud on top of all that and what you get is another Warrior scenario.

Where I think this can be solved is, they should allow the necro Some heals in Death Shroud, just as they are doing with Unholy Sanc. The specific ones would be Number 6 heals and maybe one other trait. The No.6 heals would have to be activated outside of Deathshroud first of course but, going into Deathshroud will not cancel it out or negate any regen or lifesteal. Seeing as the Necro can’t easily do a lot of damage when speccing for defence or generate life force when speccing for defence, that should be the trade-off.
Number 6 heals like the Well and the Minion, now are a lot more useful and since they are one of the only ways to heal in deathshroud, there’s a good chance it can easily be controlled if it gets out of hand.

I’m going to go ahead and put the ideas I posted above in it’s own thread to get people’s opinion on it.

I’ve just been staring at these ideas all day and deciding how I’d specc my character it they were real. Wishful thinking, I know but man, it would be awesome.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBHhZakjmyb7rx4G2bTcMUzScBA1PxSErA-TJxHwAJLDM4JAA4UAge/BA

The empty spaces would have Lifebane Strike and Strenght from the Shroud respectively.

Thus, you have the near perfect hybrid.

I’m new to the game, so I don’t have much insight to the necromancer. I’m only lvl 52 with mine. I plan on doing more WvW than anything. I was a guardian at first (lvl 27), but necromancing was interesting to me. So I’ve been doing WvW, and only with little success. If I get caught out in the open when I’m by myself then more than likely I am dead. Probably because of my lack of level/traits/gear.

My main issues with necromancer is speed and lack of good siphoning. We really don’t have good hard escapes. So being uber slow and no escapes annoys me. Feels like I’m walking through mud all the while getting rofl-stomped. Then with all the siphoning abilities, I thought the CDs could never keep up with the pace of a fight with most classes. So we have more base health and an extra health bar in death shroud, but I still feel underwhelmed. Maybe because I’m only lvl 52.

Sometimes I just feel most other classes have better utility. Self utility and of course team utility. I complain offline about the necro, but when I see you guys complain as well, then it somewhat echoes and justifies my complaints. I’m thinking about going back to my guardian, but I hate giving up. Especially when I got my necro past 50. I’d just like to get more dungeon love. HAHA.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Dirame.8521:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

I don’t know how much this tells in practice since most, if not all, Warrior PvP builds do the same

That’s the thing about Necros, everyone keeps screaming “We need more sustain in PvP” but those same people want to keep the amount of damage they can do. And what they may or may not realize is that they will end up becoming the Warriors and Eles of tomorrow.
The good thing is, there’s no real way for the Necro to stack a lot of might without sacrificing utility slots or getting help from Warriors and Eles, which would serve to balance things out but the sustainability and damage of the necro would be relatively good if they made changes using what I listed above. And that could lead to problems of it’s own which I can’t fully grasp yet.

Exactly the gripe I have with most of the complaints… What I see is a bunch of people saying “We need more sustain” but what in reality the posts are saying is, “We want to sacrifice none of our current damage and still get a better time surviving in the middle of a teamfight”…
I am fairly aware that Necromancers have poor scaling defenses (DS being the worst contender), and I also know that for the one teleport that Fleshworm gives, other classes get things like invulns and if that is not enough, reflects and/or simply insane mobility… People hate fighting classes with idiotic sustain or escapability when doing nice damage – it is already becomming clear with the amounts of threads crying about Celestial+Strength/Hoelbrak/Pirate needing a nerf because some builds can become simply broken and thus not fun to play against… Or to play as, the only thing that is remotely fun to me is a 3-Kit engi running with no stunbreaks… Worst part? Most of these builds are specced in defense, with the sole exception of indeed the 3-Kit builld (ironically)…

The reason why I hate, and I main a Warrior, but why I absolutely screamingly hate fighting a Warrior is because it does not make any freaking sense at all as to what they do! Specced for sustain, and dealing a lot, if not some of the best sustained damage in the game? It destroys the thoughts of drawbacks of traiting in a specific line – And the last thing I want is Necromancers to follow the same path… Imagine if Siphons scaled with Power (as someone suggested) going through Deathshroud as well… You’d get idiotic builds specced in defense, dealing a ton of damage without ever having to “feel” as if you have a drawback to your build, or even worse, without ever needing to look at your healing skill (Warriors ringing a bell?)

On the flipside of this coin, the only classes I can comfortably fight any class with in 1v1’s, 2v1’s and 2v2’s on a point are Warrior, Elementalist, Engineer (to some extend) and Necromancer… While it is true that a Necromancer cannot get away from a fight easily, it is also one of the easier classes to send to a node of yours, or a free node from the enemy, to cap it and wait for an enemy to come up… Usually, a Necromancer will either win or buy enough time for support to come – depending on your situation an actual support class or damage class… Even when specced for damage, it is not the worst class to pick to take up on this job…
There need to be things reworked, that is for sure, such as our poor scaling of our defense (DS), not letting DS work against our own work (Regenerations and Siphons), and maybe look at a way to, like many classes, get away from a fight when needed (And not becomming the first target on any team) – but people also need to realize that, if we want our class to not get nerfed again, we need to be careful of what we wish for… Granting more “sustain” on already powerful builds, or letting the Necromancer end up becomming a second Warrior/Ele who dominate most fights they are in because of their insane sustain might let us end up seeing another year filled with nerfs and nothing but nerfs…

… I personally need to stop typing essays when replying to someone or expressing my point…

why are they not nerfing ele then?… and warrior barely got anything if you look at how fast they regen adrenaline, stances and 7 second cd on burst skills..

You guys are overexpecting. I think after 2 years you should realize they never do day and night changes to necro. It is ALWAYS a little siphoning here and there, cooldown tweaks.

Dagger cleave is already a huge change in necro’s standard, same as death shroud interacting. Yes, these are basic things that’s requested since release, but if you look at our patch history, they are probably the biggest changes. So with these 2 changes in the patch, I really wouldn’t expect anything else big.

TL;DR: Don’t overexpect, be grateful necro didn’t get nerfed.

nearlight.3064:

Pride.1734:

Just wondering…. will axe actually be viable in PvP or PvE after the changes or will it still be crap?

It will still be crap for power necros in pvp unless as an alternate to staff (which is bad because you’d need axe training over chill of death).

Why is Axe Training required? Elaborate a bit more please, because I have no idea.