Guild Wars 2

Hi there,
I just watched the skillbar for thieves an warriors. When anet talked about thieves They said that dagger will Hit a Maximum of 2 targets in the Future. And sincs Nec dagger AA is very similar, i think it will cleave aswell.

It was hinted at by Karl in the chat, but don’t bet on it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It was hinted at by Karl in the chat, but don’t bet on it.

bet on it for thieves though.

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It was hinted at by Karl in the chat, but don’t bet on it.

bet on it for thieves though.

Considering it was explicitly announced for thieves, that’s a sucker bet.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It was hinted at by Karl in the chat, but don’t bet on it.

bet on it for thieves though.

Considering it was explicitly announced for thieves, that’s a sucker bet.

i saw that, it’s just pretty insulting that something with the exact same AA animation will get cleave and we won’t. maybe it’s because of all our l33t power aoes.

Thief really needed another cleave.

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It was hinted at by Karl in the chat, but don’t bet on it.

bet on it for thieves though.

Considering it was explicitly announced for thieves, that’s a sucker bet.

i saw that, it’s just pretty insulting that something with the exact same AA animation will get cleave and we won’t. maybe it’s because of all our l33t power aoes.

We don’t know if we will or not. I was just saying that it’s explicit for thieves.

If we do get dagger cleave, expect the life force gain to not proc per-hit and rather once per skill use. It really should proc per-hit, because if we have two enemies, we need more life force.

Still wont cleave enough to be wanted in Dungeons. It helps, but not enough.

spoj.9672:

Thief really needed another cleave.

Now they have exactly 0 weapons that don’t hit multiple targets, as long as they trait when using pistols. Meanwhile on necro…

But yes, I think its very likely that necro dagger will get cleave, although I don’t think you should get LF per person hit, its already a really nice amount. Multi-target scaling should come from other sources.

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Thief really needed another cleave.

Now they have exactly 0 weapons that don’t hit multiple targets, as long as they trait when using pistols. Meanwhile on necro…

But yes, I think its very likely that necro dagger will get cleave, although I don’t think you should get LF per person hit, its already a really nice amount. Multi-target scaling should come from other sources.

i don’t want cleave on a dagger…we need another weapon. this is the best we can hope for i guess.

We don’t need a multiple target cleave on dagger. Dagger already “cleaves” for stealthed opponents.

A cleave on axe would make more sense. As it currently does not hit stealth nor hits multiple targets.

Thieves needed more sustain for when they cannot run away after a 20k kancho . ;-)

Necro really needs cleave, bleed, torment, and blind on a 2h land spear! Add a “backstab” kind of mobility skill like a twirl or vault and we have something to bring to a gun fight that is not a knife.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It was hinted at by Karl in the chat, but don’t bet on it.

bet on it for thieves though.

Considering it was explicitly announced for thieves, that’s a sucker bet.

i saw that, it’s just pretty insulting that something with the exact same AA animation will get cleave and we won’t. maybe it’s because of all our l33t power aoes.

We don’t know if we will or not. I was just saying that it’s explicit for thieves.

If we do get dagger cleave, expect the life force gain to not proc per-hit and rather once per skill use. It really should proc per-hit, because if we have two enemies, we need more life force.

I’ll take “per skill use” anyday, anytime and praise ANet for it

seanshine.8791:

We don’t need a multiple target cleave on dagger. Dagger already “cleaves” for stealthed opponents.

What?

ill take it sounds awesome, no more bird roons

LOL I think the only reasons the devs did this is to make thieves better against rangers with their buffed revealed mwahahaha..

spoj.9672:

seanshine.8791:

We don’t need a multiple target cleave on dagger. Dagger already “cleaves” for stealthed opponents.

What?

are you noob?

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Thief really needed another cleave.

But yes, I think its very likely that necro dagger will get cleave, although I don’t think you should get LF per person hit, its already a really nice amount. Multi-target scaling should come from other sources.

I think on a melee weapon including only 1 additional target it makes sense to include LF on those hits.

seanshine.8791:

spoj.9672:

seanshine.8791:

We don’t need a multiple target cleave on dagger. Dagger already “cleaves” for stealthed opponents.

What?

are you noob?

No. Im wondering what your definition of cleave is. Because i think it differs from everyone else.

It would make more sense for axe to cleave.

However if they make axe cleave then they will likely nerf the range on it which would suck.

Really they should just hurry up and add greataxe to the game already (imagine if we had a great axe with skills similar to the executioner axe toy, but for real combat)

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

However if they make axe cleave then they will likely nerf the range on it which would suck.

Yes, I think axe range is the problem, too. Axe could use a damage boost without Dhuumfire on it anymore but adding cleave with that range would be difficult. Also, axe seems made primarily for ranged minion support with its vulnerability application, increasing ally and minion dps but groups usually do not need much additional vulnerability.

Staff ele gets 13k DPS at 600 range, range isn’t that much of an issue when it comes to damage. If Axe wants to stack vulnerability, then it needs to step the hell up and stack vulnerability like engis do.

As much as I love my Engineer, and speaking as an Engineer main myself, I really believe stacking 25 Vulnerability to foes should’ve been a Necromancer thing.

They really need to give axe Cleave, and it really needs to step its game up for applying Vulnerability.

Make cleave on the third AA for both axe and dagger.

TY.

Why does everyone keep saying give axe cleave. I cant even imagine how that would work on a 600 range weapon target requiring weapon. Unless you are imagining splash aoe around the target. But then thats not really cleave. Cleave works without a target. :P

Axe doesnt need cleave. It just needs a huge buff.

spoj.9672:

Why does everyone keep saying give axe cleave. I cant even imagine how that would work on a 600 range weapon target requiring weapon. Unless you are imagining splash aoe around the target. But then thats not really cleave. Cleave works without a target. :P

Axe doesnt need cleave. It just needs a huge buff.

splash damage is how it should perform, yes.

spoj.9672:

Why does everyone keep saying give axe cleave. I cant even imagine how that would work on a 600 range weapon target requiring weapon. Unless you are imagining splash aoe around the target. But then thats not really cleave. Cleave works without a target. :P

Axe doesnt need cleave. It just needs a huge buff.

Idk, I think Axe getting the equivalent of a 600 range Guardian staff auto attack would be just fine

But yeah, I think most people mean a splash around the target, and yeah axe needs some massive buffs.

Oooh I get to feel like a staff guardian while using axe. New lawnmower class. Cant wait!

dagger on the necro already does some incredibly high burst dps. I’ve always felt the way anet justified that kind of damage (it’s quite common when it crits to destroy someone in the 4sec shackle especially coupled with focus and a well), is that it’s purely single target, making you switch to staff if you need to aoe (but reducing your damage output). If they gave us a cleave on the dagger, I’d have a grin as wide as the grand canyon, but I just seriously doubt it would ever happen. Or if it did, they’d nerf the dps, which would ruin it imo.

After seeing the changes coming for the other classes though, I don’t expect to see any major changes like that. It seems to be nothing but tweaks.

Thief dagger and other classes cleave weapons do around the same dps as necro dagger. Theres no justified reason why they wouldnt add 2 target cleave if they are adding it to thief.

spoj.9672:

Thief dagger and other classes cleave weapons do around the same dps as necro dagger. Theres no justified reason why they wouldnt add 2 target cleave if they are adding it to thief.

Exactly this, if they don’t add at least the 2 target cleave, I’m going to RAGE against the devs.

I do think some sort of axe buff is likely since axe is probably the least used weapon across the board except for zergballin, but besides making the auto not suck, the only other things I could see them doing would be reducing the channel on #2 and giving a blast finish to #3, which would both make it better for WvW/GvGs

Axe 2 could also use a whirl finisher.

They didn’t announce it, so I’m not holding my breath, but yeah, I’d love it if Necro dagger got a 2 target cleave too.

Zaxares.5419:

They didn’t announce it, so I’m not holding my breath, but yeah, I’d love it if Necro dagger got a 2 target cleave too.

It was heavily hinted in chat by a dev (I think Karl, maybe Grouch).

spoj.9672:

Oooh I get to feel like a staff guardian while using axe. New lawnmower class. Cant wait!

if it got a third hit on the chain that was a 600 range cone i wouldn’t complain.

Bhawb.7408:

Zaxares.5419:

They didn’t announce it, so I’m not holding my breath, but yeah, I’d love it if Necro dagger got a 2 target cleave too.

It was heavily hinted in chat by a dev (I think Karl, maybe Grouch).

Yeah, but that’s still not the same as actual confirmation though. But, like I said, crossing my fingers and hoping!

spoj.9672:

Thief dagger and other classes cleave weapons do around the same dps as necro dagger. Theres no justified reason why they wouldnt add 2 target cleave if they are adding it to thief.

I can think of a couple of reasons for the dev’s to hesitate on cleave for Necro: DS and wells. I am not advocating our weak PvE but some of Necro’s mechanics are good.

I farmed geodes this weekend and was amazed how much spike damage other classes could kick out.

I did run axe for a while when I noticed the groups were small enough to be short on vulnerability but it takes a while to get going in solo.

If 2 target cleave for daggers is what is expected for Necro, is 3 target “cleave/splash” for axe asking too much? What could be done for sceptor?

Should all edged weapons cleave?
Should all projectile weapons either bounce or pierce?
Should sceptors be lumped in with hammer and mace as it’s own weapon type?

While I too hope for cleave in dagger, I remember a thread in here not too long ago about a dev stating strengths and weaknesses of each class, and that sustained power damage is supposed to be necromancers’ intended weakness. It should still be in the forum but as you know, the search option is useless. Anyway, unless they changed their mind about the intended weakness they talked about, we may not see cleave in any form any time soon.

Pregnantman.8259:

While I too hope for cleave in dagger, I remember a thread in here not too long ago about a dev stating strengths and weaknesses of each class, and that sustained power damage is supposed to be necromancers’ intended weakness. It should still be in the forum but as you know, the search option is useless. Anyway, unless they changed their mind about the intended weakness they talked about, we may not see cleave in any form any time soon.

Sustained power damage vs sustained condition damage is a reasonable trade for a class design but bosses and world events in PvE do not respond to conditions well because of caps and immunity.

Maybe if bosses actively removed conditions from some professions or ignored them completely, Necro could be useful.

Vulnerability – war, Necro
Burning – ele, Engi
Chill – necro, ele
Blind – thf, Necro
Bleed – war, Necro
Poison – thf, Necro
Confused – rang, mes
Torment – thf, Necro

Also, bosses could discard conditions that do not meet minimum strength levels so anything coming from a power/critical or bunker spec is not applied.

Please just make the profession more useful.

You have said it yourself. Sustained power damage can be traded with sustained condition damage, but it is bad practice in PvE. I also agree that there needs to be some drastic changes to PvE in order to make the tradeoff viable.

Do you remember any drastic changes made to PvE?

The only way for necromancer to have viable,respectable and somewhat relevant sustained AoE damage is through having sustained AoE power damage. I might be wrong and want to be wrong, but devs previously told we shouldn’t have sustained power damage not too long ago. That is why I am expecting nothing regards to our sustained AoE capabilities from ready up, to save myself from disappointment. When you expect nothing any improvement comes with joy.

It is not just sustained damage, either.

Damage avoidance is also important in major PvE events. Why not have condi builds make a larger difference? Why not have a boss say, "Your bleeds are weak, " and not accept them? Why not only have a boss accept a poison or blind from a condi traited thief or necro?

Bosses fighting berserker war or ele builds should have damage mitigation of their own.

There will be a cleave attack for necros on daggers aswell I believe, think about it.
Ele: Cleave: 3 targets
Thief: 2 targets

The chance they will kitten us up this time is very low..

We may get cleave on two targets or splash on axe even though I expect otherwise. Even with those tweaks the core issues we have regards to PvE are not yet resolved.

Pregnantman.8259:

We may get cleave on two targets or splash on axe even though I expect otherwise. Even with those tweaks the core issues we have regards to PvE are not yet resolved.

Outside of giving us cleave, the only way to resolve the core issues necro has is changing PvE enemy design to use more boons, condition removals, healing, etc. and fewer CC/condition immunities.

No its not the only way. Theres plenty of minor buffs they could do which would bring necro up to par with other classes. Maybe not for records. But certainly for casual organised efficient runs.

Guys, don’t over expect. You can’t expect the same treatment as thief.

btw, I still don’t understand the axe cleave arguement. Axe AA in my understanding is a slow sustain damage with vuln in preparation for spike like DS1/Axe2 in wvw/pvp. It is almost never the preferred weapon in pve. Making it cone cleave would apply vuln to multiple targets which I think is OP because guardian staff has no addition utility other than straight damage. It still wouldn’t be preferred in pve other than open world tagging as the damage is still horrible compare to other classes’ cleave weapon like war axe, whose damage output is closer to necro’s dagger plus vuln.

Dagger cleave makes much more sense since that would require enemies to be in tight group. Also the necro to be in melee thus greater risk. Compare to axe cone cleave that you just spam 111111 and everyone get vuln. I think dagger cleave is much more balanced. In pve, it straight up buff necro’s melee sustain to multiple targets when wells are in CD.

+1

Honestly, I do not expect cleave on dagger, much less on a ranged support weapon like axe. I am really hoping for a purpose-built close combat weapon designed for cleave and complementing scepter to maintain bleed stacks in AA, add torment and a gap closer.

Falcon.8713:

There will be a cleave attack for necros on daggers aswell I believe, think about it.
Ele: Cleave: 3 targets
Thief: 2 targets

The chance they will kitten us up this time is very low..

Falcon.8713:

There will be a cleave attack for necros on daggers aswell I believe, think about it.

The chance they will kitten us up this time is very low..

Falcon.8713:

The chance they will kitten us up this time is very low..

Ahh, the hope is strong in this one.

I do hope you’re right and we get dagger cleave; not going to hold my breath, though.