Guild Wars 2

The title says it all. Necromancers currently lack a viable on demand use of stability. Having to enter death shroud to gain 3 seconds of it, where because in transform you can’t stomp or revive is leaving necromancer in a bad place of having to bleeds out/channel power attack enemies to death in PvP and with updated content to PvE such twilight arbor changes to forward path (Just as an example) it is truly making the necromancer the weak link to a team with others having to hold their hands in Ascalon catacombs etc to ensure they don’t get face planted relentlessly if they misfire a dodge or simply run out of energy. I know experienced necromancers will generally dodge through and fear away knockdown enemies, or keep a stunbreak if they get caught. However with the current PvP meta of more and more players picking professions with knockdown/knockback/stun it is becoming an increasingly difficult issue for necromancers to negotiate. With a lack blocks, escapes it does seem to have some parity that necromancer at least have an element of stability. The engineer by comparison who also lack stability does have reflects, immobilise, stealth, blocks, knockbacks,blinds to help control opponents who favor repeating hard CC tactics.

Just food for thought. When the question was asked which 3 professions needed the most help players did state 1)ele 2) Ranger 3) Necro. So far all we have seen is the changing of dhuumfire, reduction in bleeds, some tampering with lifeforce, reduction in minion damage..but no actual development into area’s where the necro really needs help with, which would be defense mechanisms in terms of blocks/evades/stability and generally a speeding up on a lot of the attack speeds of their weapons which are currently constantly missing in PvP due to the faster and faster speeds players are moving at and energy sigils on swap creating uber evade situations. This doesn’t even begin to include the amount of evade on attack medium professions can use. The slower channels or travel speeds on necro weapons are beginning to show the tread mill is moving faster than the gerbil on it and the gerbil just can’t keep up. Instead necromancer is relying on accurate skill targets to land a few bleeds and just having to repeat this for pure attrition battles or use dagger because axe just gets so easily blocked or evaded because of the slower speed it works at.

100% agree with everything especially the speed of attacks they are just so easy too dodge !

Stop dreaming, necros are supposed to suck. We are the punchbag role so that 87,5% of the players can feel good about themselves and makes them spend more on gemstore. Its not like Anet is hiding this fact very well.

I agree that necromancer need stability outside of a 30 point soul reaping trait, but i dont think that spectral armor needs stability. I would prefer it on something else.

The problem however is, that with the ds cooldown reduction trait, Foot in the Grave and some boon duration necromancer have the highest stability up time of all professions. Yeah, i know that this is unrealistic as ds dancing stupid in pvp and no necro will ever do it, but Anet seems to like to balance around optimal situations, so i am not sure if we will ever see more stability on necros.

Spectral Armor is our single best defensive utility, it can’t be buffed with stability without taking away the protection, and that’s just not worth it.

It may be our single best defensive utility. But it is by no means overpowered or even that good lol. Id take stability instead of prot anyday.

The only reason to slot a spectral would be for the stunbreak. And if I want a stunbreak ill take spectral walk as it has the same cooldown + swiftness and the ability to teleport. Which is far more useful than 6 secs of prot which you can get from other sources. If spectral armour was a stunbreak + stab then there would be a genuine reason to take it in pve, pvp and wvw.

Agreed, I would gladly trade prot for stability. Protection only helps that much when you know you will just eat more CC after you use a stunbreak.

spoj.9672:

It may be our single best defensive utility. But it is by no means overpowered or even that good lol. Id take stability instead of prot anyday.

The only reason to slot a spectral would be for the stunbreak. And if I want a stunbreak ill take spectral walk as it has the same cooldown + swiftness and the ability to teleport. Which is far more useful than 6 secs of prot which you can get from other sources. If spectral armour was a stunbreak + stab then there would be a genuine reason to take it in pve, pvp and wvw.

Well in pvp Sarmor works as a pseduo immunity for 1v1 fights, most of the time at least; tho even a 40 or bloody 60s stand your ground is better than it. Id love to see a return of the 3% pre hit no icd spectral walk tho.

Doesnt one.of the wells give stability??
Idblike to see the trait that gives well protection also give stability but.my be to strong then

It only grants stability to cover the fact that it is a stunbreak with a cast time.

I made this same suggestion in march. nothing came of it though.

I think lengthening the stability granted by Well Of Power from 1second to 3seconds would be a reasonable enough change. As is, 30 points in to Soul Reaping for a few seconds of stability is ridiculous imho. I understand that as a Necromancer we’re the attrition profession, but stability is plain and simple something every profession needs access to. Not all of us are power builds and unless you want 0 duration as a conditionmancer you’re not going to spec 30 in to Soul Reaping.
So although I can understand the reasoning behind not giving us easy access to stability, it still doesn’t change the fact that the access we do have is in kind of a silly place.
So my suggestion would just be to increase the duration given by Well Of Power. Or maybe even it grants 1second per-pulse.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I think lengthening the stability granted by Well Of Power from 1second to 3seconds would be a reasonable enough change. As is, 30 points in to Soul Reaping for a few seconds of stability is ridiculous imho. I understand that as a Necromancer we’re the attrition profession, but stability is plain and simple something every profession needs access to. Not all of us are power builds and unless you want 0 duration as a conditionmancer you’re not going to spec 30 in to Soul Reaping.
So although I can understand the reasoning behind not giving us easy access to stability, it still doesn’t change the fact that the access we do have is in kind of a silly place.
So my suggestion would just be to increase the duration given by Well Of Power. Or maybe even it grants 1second per-pulse.

Actually WoD and WoP just need to be instants thus WoP not needing stability (as most now stability covered stunbreaks), we just need a) DS to go on cd on entry not exit with current foot in the grave or b) Shade

And no except for mm we arent in a weird place.

What about people who dont.base there.builds.of using.ds??

Try this. Go into game, and get rid of DS. Oh, you can’t? That’s because DS is every bit as core to being a Necromancer as anything else (if not more so). You can’t have a build that doesn’t use DS, even the builds with the worst DS synergy still need DS.

That said, we need stability, and SA is not the place for it. If you give it stability, it won’t give protection, and protection is absolutely necessary for it to function as an anti burst mechanic – the only true one we have mind you. SA into DS nullifies even the most stupid bursts, and will keep you alive at least for most of the duration even through focus. It just isn’t worth getting rid of our single best defensive utility just because we have bad stability.

Give us stability via more traits and more accessible ones. Give stability via new traits. But don’t ruin something that is already perfect.

WoD is also a good anti burst.
And yes i agree SA does not need stability

As for DS it.completely negates my healing effect.
In every fite i am getting heal due to wells the second i pop ds that healing no longer affects me. Not every necro build needs ds and if you think they do you are.being ignorant

Bhawb.7408:

Spectral Armor is our single best defensive utility, it can’t be buffed with stability without taking away the protection, and that’s just not worth it.

I believe it can.
Warrior balanced stance provides 8 seconds stability and swiftness. Hold the line provides stability and retaliation. It is not unheard of for stability related skills to also have major other benefits that coincide.

As far as on demand stability I’d much rather see a trait attached to signets. Currently, the spectral utilites are actually pretty strong, and with path of corruption I don’t feel bad going deep into curses on a power build to get spectral attunement. Combine that with spectral mastery and spectral armor is really really strong. Especially if you go 5 more into soul reaping cause then you have 2 spectral armors generating an absurd amount of life force.

If they attached active stability to signets or a signet, fixed signet of vampirism, and gave us 1 to 2 more signet traits on top of that maybe someone could make an effective signet build. The real ringer of putting stability on signets is that it opens up build diversity because most builds will take at most 1 signet (spite, locust, or plague), and this would give them a big buff.

CratZ.6270:

Stop dreaming, necros are supposed to suck. We are the punchbag role so that 87,5% of the players can feel good about themselves and makes them spend more on gemstore. Its not like Anet is hiding this fact very well.

Are you serious? If you’re at least a decent necro you can hold your ground in a simple 1v1.
As for the stability, I also think necro desperately needs some of it. I’m getting pushed around all over the map due to rangers, engis and warriors. Although I do have 30 in SR, choosing foot in the grave over deathly perception would decrease my dps by a ton. I hope anet sees this…

CratZ.6270:

Stop dreaming, necros are supposed to suck. We are the punchbag role so that 87,5% of the players can feel good about themselves and makes them spend more on gemstore. Its not like Anet is hiding this fact very well.

Wow… i think my necro does quite well…

Armour of Earth on ele provides stability and prot for 6 seconds. Id like to see stability on Spectral armour, but if thats not possible then I hope to see it on a new utility slot eventually. Anets current design philosophy is really hurting the necro atm, no access to many things every class needs and has except for the necro.

I think it’s odd to attach stability to Spectral Armor, which already is a strong skill, when there are a lot of Necro abilities that isn’t all that good.

Perhaps the Warhorn’s Wail of Doom could apply stability to allies within the cone, instead of “only” dazing enemies?

Btw, while we’re on the topic of attaching additional utility to Necro abilities, can’t the Corrosive Poison Cloud become a Projectile destroyer?

spoj.9672:

Armour of Earth on ele provides stability and prot for 6 seconds. Id like to see stability on Spectral armour, but if thats not possible then I hope to see it on a new utility slot eventually. Anets current design philosophy is really hurting the necro atm, no access to many things every class needs and has except for the necro.

That would be fine if necro had good enough compensation (you know just how warriors have full 2+ power ratios on main skills pre 2s instead of 2 pre 3 or 1.5 pre 2, just how mesmers have free mass body aggro and teleports instead of swiftness, thieves got immunity to chill and infinite dodge in exchange for… ok that was a bad example).
You know like cc immunity, a cap on damage taken, condi transfers on basic attacks, etc via advanced traits.

Oh man dont get me started on how much utility other classes have compared to necro. Its a terrible joke. Thankfully i play all classes so I dont have to deal with having a useless and poorly designed main.

Can i ask why you write pre instead of per? It doesnt make sense. Pre means before so it doesnt fit. And i always assume you actually mean per when you write it. It kind of irritates me when I see it. xD

spoj.9672:

Oh man dont get me started on how much utility other classes have compared to necro. Its a terrible joke. Thankfully i play all classes so I dont have to deal with having a useless and poorly designed main.

Can i ask why you write pre instead of per? It doesnt make sense. Pre means before so it doesnt fit. And i always assume you actually mean per when you write it. It kind of irritates me when I see it. xD

Fixed

woops that fail typo xd

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I believe it can.
Warrior balanced stance provides 8 seconds stability and swiftness. Hold the line provides stability and retaliation. It is not unheard of for stability related skills to also have major other benefits that coincide.

Except Spectral Armor doesn’t ONLY provide protection. It provides protection and LF, while being able to be used in DS effectively negating any burst for the duration. Stability would never be added on top of that, it’d be strictly better than armor of earth in every way.

Bhawb.7408:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I believe it can.
Warrior balanced stance provides 8 seconds stability and swiftness. Hold the line provides stability and retaliation. It is not unheard of for stability related skills to also have major other benefits that coincide.

Except Spectral Armor doesn’t ONLY provide protection. It provides protection and LF, while being able to be used in DS effectively negating any burst for the duration. Stability would never be added on top of that, it’d be strictly better than armor of earth in every way.

True and thats the only issue i see. However armour of earth isnt even that strong. People never took it when the cooldown was 90 seconds and its still pretty unpopular with a 75 second cd. Personally I would be ok with spectral armour becoming prot+stab on a 90 second cooldown.

The key point is we need a more accessible form of stability other than an elite transform or a grandmaster trait. Being stunlocked into oblivion by warriors in tpvp or wvw is incredibly frustrating and having 2 stunbreaks wont save you against a decent warrior. Im sure you’ve experienced this aswell.

It is definitely annoying to get trained down, which is why I generally use Flesh Wurm as my stun break. But that’s just trying to play around an issue we shouldn’t have.

I agree we need stability, but this will bring very big nerfs to this skill, stability has a fairly large “power budget” in a skill. Just give us a new skill that fills this function, without muddling other skill uses.

Yep im in agreement with you. Its just i see new skills as a long term solution. We kind of need something a bit sooner imo.

If SA got stability the CD would go way up because it would be a crazy defensive ability. And kiss last gasp goodbye, too.

I know, I really wish we could get something soon, but I think a lot of solutions that would fix things in the short run could hurt us in the long run, and I’m not quite sure how I feel about that.

I wish they would start releasing like 1 weapon per profession per month or two, along with a new utility skill every so often, because while new game content happens very often, the comparable “evolution” speed of the combat system compared to GW1 is glacial. By this time GW1 had 2-3 campaigns, and by just over 2 years after release it had its full 3 campaigns and expansion.

I was not able to get through either of your two paragraphs. By design, spectral skills and stability do not go together. By design, WoP and traits are your only access unless you are a lucky hume that prays a lot.

I can do without stability..

In fact, I’m very satisfied with how the necro is now.

I miss my dhuumfire (before the patch), but I can deal with how things are now. (easily adaptable)

Plague Signet is now my most favorite breakstun, with spectral armor activating at 50% and well-played DS, almost every situation is handleable

Bhawb.7408:

It is definitely annoying to get trained down, which is why I generally use Flesh Wurm as my stun break. But that’s just trying to play around an issue we shouldn’t have.

I agree we need stability, but this will bring very big nerfs to this skill, stability has a fairly large “power budget” in a skill. Just give us a new skill that fills this function, without muddling other skill uses.

^This, currently the skill is awesome and works really well with almost any build. I think it is the go to stun breaker for a lot people. Giving it stability would result in it getting the nerfbat. Especially because with spectral attunement and 6 seconds of stability this would become a 9 second stability with no boon duration. Then you could also proc it with 15 in soul reaping, which would inevitably lead to a huge nerf to the cooldown, boons and lf generation.

What changes @ TA Forward ?
Only reason a necromancer should have stability is to finish downed enemies, PvE we don’t need it & PvP is easy to live without if you l2d regular attacks..

Falcon.8713:

What changes @ TA Forward ?
Only reason a necromancer should have stability is to finish downed enemies, PvE we don’t need it & PvP is easy to live without if you l2d regular attacks..

For PvE no profession needs stability and for pvp dont forget the necromancer is the light armor profession that is supposed to stay in a fight and for that you need stability. It is the same with guardians and warriors. And they also can live without stability in pvp…

Muchacho.2390:

Falcon.8713:

What changes @ TA Forward ?
Only reason a necromancer should have stability is to finish downed enemies, PvE we don’t need it & PvP is easy to live without if you l2d regular attacks..

For PvE no profession needs stability and for pvp dont forget the necromancer is the light armor profession that is supposed to stay in a fight and for that you need stability. It is the same with guardians and warriors. And they also can live without stability in pvp…

Depends on what role you fill, but I guess you’re right, but scince we don’t have any as utility, necro’s should stay on the sideline @ groupfights, not zerg in but slowly get involved , or we can trait for it in a DS build, but we can also convert the stability of enemies, that’s imo a genius thing to do when you need to stay in a fight and make sure your side wins.

Stability is a necessary part of PvP, especially for a low mobility class with no vigor or active way to avoid skills. You can say warriors and guardians don’t need it, but they also have a crapton better ways to make sure the CC skill itself never takes effect. But if ANet continues to refuse to give us decent access to blind, vigor, blocks, immunities, aegis, literally anything above the innate endurance regen, we need stability to block CC, otherwise we are literally just giant walking punching bags. We have the worst active defense in the game, with nothing more than a lot of HP to supplement it.

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

I use Well of Power for stun break/stability and it works well. It’s always on my toolbar. As far as Necros sucking, I tend to stomp GS warriors in WvW regularly (I use axe/warhorn or dagger/warhorn—doesn’t matter). I also have a warrior and my Necro tends to survive better in large group fights, because of Death shroud mainly.

Maybe I jsut play a Necro better but the only class I’ve ever had a problem with in WvW duels is Mesmer. I fought one for 15 minutes straight, we waved to each other and walked away. I eat “Zerker or GTFO” warriors for breakfast. They truly suck. Mix in some Vitality and quit complaining about conditions being OP—whaaaa!!!

a t s e.9614:

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

lol Well put.

Dear god the forums show nicely how 40% of the community needs to be permabanned from real games for lack of game design sense.

a t s e.9614:

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

Any kind of explanation, rational, or thought at all behind this. No, ok then stop coming into this forum and trolling.

Necros should have the best access to stability in the game imo. We aren’t mobile, don’t have easy to access teleports, don’t have easy to access swiftness, don’t have blocks, don’t have invulns, and don’t have extra dodges. There is only one way a necro can walk out of a fight, and that’s if they kill everyone else there. We need some stability on an active skill because unlike every class besides gaurdians we can’t really leave the pocket of a fight. Once your in your in, and if your getting chain cc’d your not going to make it very well.

Andele.1306:

Dear god the forums show nicely how 40% of the community needs to be permabanned from real games for lack of game design sense.

Good thing game design isn’t democratic.

Giving more access to stability to necro might be nice, but why did you decide to give it to one of the best defensive utility in the game? You don’t think protection + LF +stability might be too much? I think signet of locus might be more appropriate.

why don’t we just put 5 sec of stability on signet of the locust.. then we sacrifice speed for stability, I would say that is balanced

just noticed the guy above me had the same idea ha =p

zapv.8051:

a t s e.9614:

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

Any kind of explanation, rational, or thought at all behind this. No, ok then stop coming into this forum and trolling.

Necros should have the best access to stability in the game imo. We aren’t mobile, don’t have easy to access teleports, don’t have easy to access swiftness, don’t have blocks, don’t have invulns, and don’t have extra dodges. There is only one way a necro can walk out of a fight, and that’s if they kill everyone else there. We need some stability on an active skill because unlike every class besides gaurdians we can’t really leave the pocket of a fight. Once your in your in, and if your getting chain cc’d your not going to make it very well.

Umm… have you ever played necro? or just MM?
Death Shroud #2 (dark path) is a teleport, Spectral Walk (there’s your swiftness) has a teleport (if used properly), and lastly, flesh worm can be destroyed for a teleport to it’s location (which is perfect for CoF p1). Warhorn is also an ok go-to for swiftness.. And do you realize what you’re saying? Why should a light-armored class have heavy access to stability?.. that just doesn’t make sense to me.

And plague is pretty much the perfect defense for CC, you get stability, and you can blind spam to pretty much not get hit at all for the duration of the skill (unless they range/kite you + conditions can slowly be applied as well – but conditions are hardly a threat to a necro if you know how to handle yourself and have the appropriate skills/utilities).

If you want more dodges, there’s always sigils of energy and runes for vigor on hit (can’t remember the name off-hand, sry). Lastly, I don’t think that guy was trolling, to me it sounded like a funny, valid response to necros and consistent stability. Stability is not at all the strong point to a necro and neither should it be. (my opinion, you’re free to feel different – I won’t judge)

Krude.7495:

Umm… have you ever played necro? or just MM?
Death Shroud #2 (dark path) is a teleport, Spectral Walk (there’s your swiftness) has a teleport (if used properly), and lastly, flesh worm can be destroyed for a teleport to it’s location (which is perfect for CoF p1). Warhorn is also an ok go-to for swiftness.. And do you realize what you’re saying? Why should a light-armored class have heavy access to stability?.. that just doesn’t make sense to me.

You know that even with all that warriors are more mobile, more tanky and have better access to stability then necros. And dont forget necros are supposed to be in the fight like warriors and guardians. And in theory necros have even the highest stability time if traited properly. The problem however is that this scenario is so unlikely.

Krude.7495:

And plague is pretty much the perfect defense for CC, you get stability, and you can blind spam to pretty much not get hit at all for the duration of the skill (unless they range/kite you + conditions can slowly be applied as well – but conditions are hardly a threat to a necro if you know how to handle yourself and have the appropriate skills/utilities).

And has a cd of 180 seconds, which limits the elite too much (though the cd is probably justified).

Krude.7495:

If you want more dodges, there’s always sigils of energy and runes for vigor on hit (can’t remember the name off-hand, sry). Lastly, I don’t think that guy was trolling, to me it sounded like a funny, valid response to necros and consistent stability. Stability is not at all the strong point to a necro and neither should it be. (my opinion, you’re free to feel different – I won’t judge)

One could argue that necros need vigor. Though i am not sure if vigor is something necros really need. Stability in the other hand should be available in more necro builds then in only one…

Krude.7495:

zapv.8051:

a t s e.9614:

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

Any kind of explanation, rational, or thought at all behind this. No, ok then stop coming into this forum and trolling.

Necros should have the best access to stability in the game imo. We aren’t mobile, don’t have easy to access teleports, don’t have easy to access swiftness, don’t have blocks, don’t have invulns, and don’t have extra dodges. There is only one way a necro can walk out of a fight, and that’s if they kill everyone else there. We need some stability on an active skill because unlike every class besides gaurdians we can’t really leave the pocket of a fight. Once your in your in, and if your getting chain cc’d your not going to make it very well.

Umm… have you ever played necro? or just MM?
Death Shroud #2 (dark path) is a teleport, Spectral Walk (there’s your swiftness) has a teleport (if used properly), and lastly, flesh worm can be destroyed for a teleport to it’s location (which is perfect for CoF p1). Warhorn is also an ok go-to for swiftness.. And do you realize what you’re saying? Why should a light-armored class have heavy access to stability?.. that just doesn’t make sense to me.

And plague is pretty much the perfect defense for CC, you get stability, and you can blind spam to pretty much not get hit at all for the duration of the skill (unless they range/kite you + conditions can slowly be applied as well – but conditions are hardly a threat to a necro if you know how to handle yourself and have the appropriate skills/utilities).

If you want more dodges, there’s always sigils of energy and runes for vigor on hit (can’t remember the name off-hand, sry). Lastly, I don’t think that guy was trolling, to me it sounded like a funny, valid response to necros and consistent stability. Stability is not at all the strong point to a necro and neither should it be. (my opinion, you’re free to feel different – I won’t judge)

LOL I build craft constantly so telling me which skills the necro has, and what their utility is makes me laugh. Dark path is a teleport to a target, which is ok when fighting, but terrible for escape. Spectral walk is an amazing skill that I actually trait for, but its functionality is limited, and most of the time it still won’t allow you to get away from smart players. Flesh worm is 1200 range, you have to have it presummoned, and make sure no one kills it. In WvW where I play it isn’t worth it. A light armor class should have the heaviest access to stability because unlike warriors and gaurdians, we don’t have invulnerabilities, or blocks, and have to work way to hard to make the movement skills we have worth while. Furthermore, we don’t have evades skills, or stealth like ever other light and medium armor class. That is why we need stability, our in combat movement is terrible, or out of combat movement is subpar, and we don’t have good(i.e. instant) teleports and evades.

Especially comparing us to a warrior though is absurd. Warriors run one weapon, and have great damage and great mobility (greatsword is actually the highest dps warrior build again).

Again, I realize plague is a skill, but 20 seconds of blind spam is not equivalent to good defense, or sustain. It makes me question why you think you can bring up a 180 second cooldown elite as “perfect defense.” It is one of the best elites in the game don’t get me wrong, but you can’t call something with that high of a cooldown the perfect defense.

To your last point, classes should not have to spec into specific runes, and traits to get things every other class has. Every other class has access to vigor, but necros don’t. Another example is with mesmers, they are the only class that has almost no access to run speed bonuses. They shouldn’t have to spend gold on runes to reach a reasonable run speed. That kills build diversity while also leaving one class in the dust. Giving necros better access to stability would allow us to sit in the pocket without getting cc chained to death which is what happens now. It would allow the class to prevent being focused so much in pvp, and open up tanking builds that didn’t center on 30 in soul reaping.