Guild Wars 2

whats the origin of this “Shout” theory people keep talking about?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/

From that post, we know that there’s a class that can obtain Shouts. Then, we’re the only one that can fit that why we’re the only one that really need a support build.

Then, if we obtain other stuff I’m really happy, but everyone think that the necromancer will obtain that shouts, then…

Silv.9207:

From that post, we know that there’s a class that can obtain Shouts. Then, we’re the only one that can fit that why we’re the only one that really need a support build.

Then, if we obtain other stuff I’m really happy, but everyone think that the necromancer will obtain that shouts, then…

I hope, if it is shouts, that they realize those shouts need to deal damage AND buff allies. Especially if with cone-type abilities it would perfectly fir a close range spec, which Necro with GS should be.

We’re not really the only ones…

Thieves could get some shouts if their new spec isn’t centred around stealth anymore.
Rangers,very likely.
Revenant spec?

I don’t want any boring shouts for a Necromancer, nono.

Rym.1469:

We’re not really the only ones…

Thieves could get some shouts if their new spec isn’t centred around stealth anymore.
Rangers,very likely.
Revenant spec?

I don’t want any boring shouts for a Necromancer, nono.

Rangers already have shouts and Revenants aren’t getting an existing utility type due to their unique method of getting those skills.

We all hove that. But… there’s not a single shout that deal damage in the game. We can be the first of all, but that will mean change the shouts basic idea: support skill that give AoE boons and/or conditions.
If we obtain shouts and ANet don’t change, only for us, the basicline of shout skills all the things we can hope will be inflict fear, weakness, slow and chill and gain protection, swiftness and things like that. Nothing more.

That’s why i will prefer some kind of cantrip/Aura instead of shouts.
That fit perfectly a melee fighter. An aura that grant X stack of might when used and grant regeneration and inflict poison when the enemy hit you, something that.

But we don’t need another selfless boon skills. We need team boons skills, unless the Devs don’t want to let us into our selfish support state.

Given what we know, the following classes are the only ones with a chance of getting shouts:

necro 65%, ele 30%, thief 5%. (my assumption on how probable it would be)

I doubt we’re getting shouts. My honest to goodness opinion? Marjory probably the biggest hint to our new elite specialization. She has a greatsword imbued with her sister’s ghost. The entire specialization is probably going to be a throw back to Ritualists and old GW1 (edit with link) weapon spells

Expect conjured weaps for Necro speciliazation. One of our biggest weaknesses is the ability to actually do anything for the rest of our party, and this will be how they try and rectify that gap. But that’s just my two cents on the matter.

Conjured other professions.

Summon D/D Ele, Summon Shoutbow, Summon D/P Thief, Summon Celengineer, Summon Meditardian.

Rym.1469:

Conjured other professions.

Summon D/D Ele, Summon Shoutbow, Summon D/P Thief, Summon Celengineer, Summon Meditardian.

Dont forget

Summon PEWPEW ranger
Summon Sinister shatter mesmer

Of the 9 professions:
Revenant can’t get shouts (6 shouts while Rev gets 5 skills, plus their unique utility setup)
Warrior, Guardian, and Ranger already have them
Mesmer is getting wells

That leaves us with Elementalist, Necromancer, Thief, and Engineer. Of those professions, we are the only ones with skills that can easily be translated from GW1 (Orders), in addition we are pretty sure we are getting a melee greatsword, and so far every single melee greatsword wielding profession in the game has shouts, on top of the fact that Marjory seems to have been taught how to use the GS by Rox (a ranger, who has shouts), and the fact that shouts are an easy way to add support to a profession that desperately needs it. None of the other professions really fits Shouts any better than us, shouting Thieves is stupid, Engineers use technology, Elementalists are possible but unlikely.

So basically, we are easily the most fitting profession, we already have template skills. Everything we can possibly speculate about points to Necromancer getting the shouts. That is NOT to say that we definitely will, just that it is the most likely scenario.

Bhawb.7408:

Of the 9 professions:
Revenant can’t get shouts (6 shouts while Rev gets 5 skills, plus their unique utility setup)
Warrior, Guardian, and Ranger already have them
Mesmer is getting wells

That leaves us with Elementalist, Necromancer, Thief, and Engineer. Of those professions, we are the only ones with skills that can easily be translated from GW1 (Orders), in addition we are pretty sure we are getting a melee greatsword, and so far every single melee greatsword wielding profession in the game has shouts, on top of the fact that Marjory seems to have been taught how to use the GS by Rox (a ranger, who has shouts), and the fact that shouts are an easy way to add support to a profession that desperately needs it. None of the other professions really fits Shouts any better than us, shouting Thieves is stupid, Engineers use technology, Elementalists are possible but unlikely.

So basically, we are easily the most fitting profession, we already have template skills. Everything we can possibly speculate about points to Necromancer getting the shouts. That is NOT to say that we definitely will, just that it is the most likely scenario.

The question is, what skills does Marjory actually use in the game? I know of the GS AA, summoning stuff, and creating a bone bridge. Having bone-skills would be pretty cool…like a bone wall/cage that works like the thing Tequatl could once do… Then some bone spikes… Nah. As if Necros would get something unique.

Silv.9207:

We all hove that. But… there’s not a single shout that deal damage in the game. We can be the first of all, but that will mean change the shouts basic idea: support skill that give AoE boons and/or conditions.
If we obtain shouts and ANet don’t change, only for us, the basicline of shout skills all the things we can hope will be inflict fear, weakness, slow and chill and gain protection, swiftness and things like that. Nothing more.

That’s why i will prefer some kind of cantrip/Aura instead of shouts.
That fit perfectly a melee fighter. An aura that grant X stack of might when used and grant regeneration and inflict poison when the enemy hit you, something that.

But we don’t need another selfless boon skills. We need team boons skills, unless the Devs don’t want to let us into our selfish support state.

And as for “no shout has ever done damage” : And? Ranger shouts simply are commands to the pet. The warrior has 2 shouts that affect the enemy (fear them, make them vulnerable).

The mesmer wells have an “explosion” effect with their last tick, aswell as all doing damage aswell as buffing allies, and also a massive CC-well. Not a single Necro well has any of that. So really, just because it hasn’T happend before doesn’t mean they cannot do it.

And as for cone vs circular…they could simply make the dmg part also a circle. Also, thief traps : rectangles, not circles like DH and Ranger traps.

Besides the AA I don’t think she’s had anything new added, the bone wall stuff she’s used for a long time afaik.

Bhawb.7408:

Besides the AA I don’t think she’s had anything new added, the bone wall stuff she’s used for a long time afaik.

Even then, i wish we’d get that. Especially in a circular shape around you : pop it and cut of enemies from their allies, forcing them into a 1v1 (1v necro + minions) and preventing them from escaping. Bones disappear after a certain time but also can be destroyed. The dream…

Shiki.7148:

Bhawb.7408:

Besides the AA I don’t think she’s had anything new added, the bone wall stuff she’s used for a long time afaik.

Even then, i wish we’d get that. Especially in a circular shape around you : pop it and cut of enemies from their allies, forcing them into a 1v1 (1v necro + minions) and preventing them from escaping. Bones disappear after a certain time but also can be destroyed. The dream…

Charnel mastery? Interesting idea, but I"m not sure what skill category they could bring to represent it. Banners of bone and skin with aoe bone-generating skills when held? Conjuring bone weapons for similar effect?

On another note – and this would be better for a second or third elite spec, after HoT – necro venoms could have fun effects, especially if they can be spread to allies by default, (maybe as a chain skill). Imagine coating your weapons with potent stuff like Ichor, Ectoplasm, Tainted Blood, Tears of Mourning, Necrotic Bile, and Distilled Terror.

Are you guys really excited about shouts? I mean, shouts seem like the most boring mechanic in the game? Yay, minor group utility buffs….

I don’ tknow, it just seems shouts are so, vanilla. I keep looking at the rev’s mechanics and continue to hope they will apply some of these mechanics to our class, because we are in most need of help.

a bar of shouts doesnt make u a support/utility machine overnight while fixing the glaring issues of the class . it could not do better than what is already being used anyway. unless they make it OP as all hell i guess

people need to scream class overhaul more often! engineer is getting one of all the choices on the table!
we could use a ranger treatment kind of buff. something extreme

These are the Classes left that could get Shouts: Elementalist, Necromancer, Thief, and Engineer. It may very well be us that gets it but Shouts are on the classes that have it skills that gives Boon,Buffs,Support and that is NOT something that Anet has ever given Necromancer. I have a hard time seeing us getting that at this point in time, it also dosent fit our Class imo. So could the shouts all be like “Fear Me” (warrior variation) ? yea maybe..

We know Ele Elite is called Tempest, Necro isnt a Support/Boon class (shouts usually goes that way),Thief or Engi is my guess for shouts but I could be wrong ofc.

If Necro gets shouts however dont expect us the Shouts that support or gives boons to either us or allies…. I just dont see that.

My bet: Thief or Engi

“New Skills
Almost every elite specialization will gain access to a complete set of new skills”

Guys. Almost every elite spec will get new skills, presumably from the base game professions. To me, that means that a) We’ll get kittened over and just have the same old kitten, or b) It will be a traitline that actually makes the core necro class stronger.

The B option is what I’m hoping for, obviously. And, think about it. Necro has huge potential as a class. If they tweak the existing traits a bit more, that will make it so not everyone will take the elite spec. However, assuming it a trait line that involves melee skills, it would be excellent for those of us who like jumping right on our enemies and pester the living hell out of them.

My preference: Greatsword with cleave. Minions. Conditions roll off my shoulders. I chop people to little bits.

I know it is probably unrealistic, but gods kitten it. We need some hope. And I think expanding on our existing powers is the way it should go for us. kitten shouts and the rest of it. We’re not thieves to steal other skills. Necros are a selfish class, but we’re pretty self-sufficient. We should use our native strengths, not new mockeries of other professions’ abilities

Edit: A thought I just had is, what if some trait in the new elite spec (more than likely a GM) actually boosted whatever other trait lines we take. “All other traits/trait lines have their effects increased by X%/by X number value)”

Gryph.8237:

Are you guys really excited about shouts? I mean, shouts seem like the most boring mechanic in the game? Yay, minor group utility buffs….

I don’ tknow, it just seems shouts are so, vanilla. I keep looking at the rev’s mechanics and continue to hope they will apply some of these mechanics to our class, because we are in most need of help.

Like I mentioned a few times already, they could easily make shouts for necros more interesting. I mean, look at the guardian traps and mesmer wells compared to, let’s say, thief traps and necro wells. My idea would be damage dealing shouts that also buff allies with adding bleed, cripple, chill etc. to their next few attacks and the like.

Ravezaar.4951:

These are the Classes left that could get Shouts: Elementalist, Necromancer, Thief, and Engineer. It may very well be us that gets it but Shouts are on the classes that have it skills that gives Boon,Buffs,Support and that is NOT something that Anet has ever given Necromancer. I have a hard time seeing us getting that at this point in time, it also dosent fit our Class imo. So could the shouts all be like “Fear Me” (warrior variation) ? yea maybe..

We know Ele Elite is called Tempest, Necro isnt a Support/Boon class (shouts usually goes that way),Thief or Engi is my guess for shouts but I could be wrong ofc.

If Necro gets shouts however dont expect us the Shouts that support or gives boons to either us or allies…. I just dont see that.

My bet: Thief or Engi

With hammer or rifle I don’t see shouts for either thief or engi. It adds up with necro it’s necro+warrior,the defiance bar fits us best(DS),shouts are meta on war,lore. The’ll add a twist to it but I doubt it will be on the same lane as our needs simply because they don’t see the class the way we do.

Considering they’ve made ranger spirit’s immobile with the new trait system, is there a possibility that the Necromancer could gain spirits based on Belinda being in Majory’s great sword? The spirits could be similar to a Ritualists…

Great immobile spirits for a kittenty immobile class hahahah. Would end us

Gryph.8237:

Great immobile spirits for a kittenty immobile class hahahah. Would end us

It depends entirely on how ArenaNet design the specialization. I’d personally prefer Shouts, but spirits based on Living World are most likely.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Gryph.8237:

Great immobile spirits for a kittenty immobile class hahahah. Would end us

It depends entirely on how ArenaNet design the specialization. I’d personally prefer Shouts, but spirits based on Living World are most likely.

Might as well make them venoms with a necro twist, I’ll go towards thief instead of war if possible >.>

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Considering they’ve made ranger spirit’s immobile with the new trait system, is there a possibility that the Necromancer could gain spirits based on Belinda being in Majory’s great sword? The spirits could be similar to a Ritualists…

I would like this, actually. If they made those summon resistant to AoE.

Way better than shouts for me.

I really don’t want more AI. We already have minions that don’t work. AI builds are either completely useless or stupid OP. No thanks. A full set of shouts could give us an instant cast heal that probably comes with group support, along with an elite that isn’t very easily countered or moa’d, and other instant cast AOE skills that can bring a lot of support. I love playing powermancer but wells are easily countered, so is spectral armor. Shouts aren’t as much because you just need to be around.

My problem with the shout theory is that it would make the necro the only profession with 2 hints towards their elite spec in that particular blog post. Smells fishy.

My guess is thieves get the shouts. If they’re bards, it makes sense. They’re only a little less selfish of a class than necros.

Giving necros an entire elite spec based on fixing their problems is just bad design. They’re not supposed to be something we should feel like we have to take. Just an alternative spin on the profession itself.

Plus, shouts are just kittening boring.

Elementalist storm caller. Clearly the shout profession. Seeing as they’ll have the most work cut out for them with just one weapon. For the sake of time this could make the most sense from a practical stand point.

I legitimately hope it isn’t shouts. Shouts are the most boring utilities in the game, even compared to signets.

I’d hope with the elite specialization, we’d get a defiance bar or something instead.

Guys. Guys. Almost all elite specs will get new skills. Like I said in my comment above, I don’t think we’re getting new skills. I think we’re getting our base skills improved. Hopefully in some flexible way. Not to fix the base, but augment it. And that’s still better than shouts or the other possibilities

what do we know so far about the elite spec?
1) greatsword
2) new way to use life force

dood.7526:

Giving necros an entire elite spec based on fixing their problems is just bad design. They’re not supposed to be something we should feel like we have to take. Just an alternative spin on the profession itself. .

Both the Chronomancer and Dragonhunter have addressed weaknesses of their base classes (AoE fields and range). So it would make sense that there will be a similar approach towards the Necro spec.

I get the feeling that necros are going to get shouts as they fit rather well with greatswords and all.
Revinents aren’t going to get them cause of their own unique thing
Warriors have them
Guardians have them
Rangers have them
Thiefs are never (imo) not going to be stealth based
Engies could, maybe, though from what i hear about them it’s not likely.
We know mesmers aren’t getting them (they’re gonna get wells)
Eles could. They’re by far my least favorite so idk, but personally i hope necros get shouts.
This leaves necros (and engies but probably not)

The thing is even if they do give necromancers shouts that doesn’t mean they’re just going to copy/paste for gr8 justice onto our skill bar, they’re going to still do necromancer-ey things in a necromancer-ey way. Plus if you don’t like them, it doesn’t look like they’re taking pre existing utility away from your class so you can feel free to use all your previous utilities and a gs or hell, you dont even need to use the elite spec if you don’t want to, you can just do what you were beforehand and ignore the greatsword.
I’ll probably pick up that shiny new GS and keep using my current utilities unless one or more of those shouts winds up looking super compelling.

On another note, why all the hate for shouts?
Is it just that they don’t have some super flashy animation on them or something? Cause personally i’ll take function over form every single time without question or hesitation.
Also, because of the way unlocks seem to be working everything is getting up in a category, so they may be broadening the horizons of what exactly a shout is and, as somebody else in here suggested, it could be a directed cone of Ae boons to allies and condis to foes or something like that.

Vydahr.4285:

Guys. Guys. Almost all elite specs will get new skills. Like I said in my comment above, I don’t think we’re getting new skills. I think we’re getting our base skills improved. Hopefully in some flexible way. Not to fix the base, but augment it. And that’s still better than shouts or the other possibilities

Every elite spec is getting 6 new skills.

CynicalFred.9135:

snip

Other then a banshee’s wail, there is no room for shouts on the necromancer. This is the only area were it fits for us and on top of that greatsword is one of the WORST weapons in combination with shouts. And I’ll explain why.

Shouts in the Guild Wars franchise have always been a mid-line supportive skill. If you look at GW1, the Profession with the strongest shout ranged support was the paragon and it was a mid-line fighter. Having half the normal range of casters setting them in the perfect spot to assist allies with their shouts and chants. We don’t notice it too much in GW2 with stacking being a huge thing but if arena net keeps to their guns about more challenging content then giving shouts together with a front-line weapon can only spell disastrous and confusing game play for a profession who doesn’t use that sort of tactic normally.

Now looking at the Elementalist, we know their sword sits in at 600 range. This is within the mid-line defenses. This puts them in the perfect spot to support allies with shouts. Added onto that they have more wiggle room then the necromancer when it comes to the shout theme. You look at the name tempest, which is what the community is calling the specialization and one of the first few things that come to mind are Storms and noise. A sort of storm caller type profession is extremely fitting for an elementalist, screaming to the heavens to call down fire and brimstone is all too fitting for them.

Its also hard to imagine shouts requiring life force. So every other profession can use shouts normally and necromancer just gets WORSE shouts because it strips our defense away? This seems like a bad design.

Looking at the second most likely profession to get shouts we have Engineer. Its my belief that engineer will either get shouts or signets. Its the profession with the least abilities that can be adapted to other professions so giving them an ability that can more easily be adapted just seems like a good idea.

Engineers also have the issue Necromancer has with using a melee weapon which is why I don’t think they are as likely as the elementalist is, but they have a better fit. If we further assume that their tool belt skills are going to be changed to something else we can also assume that double shouts wont be a thing that the engineer will be capable of. But if you think about a technical commander or “Commando” calling out tactical strikes can really fit the engineer. Especially if those shouts can be used to effect their turrets or flying things rather then just allies it makes more sense then the necromancer who’s minions would be too stupid to be able to understand any command beyond point to target, kill target.

Looking at the revenant, we don’t know how they’re going to work the profession into the game. I imagine that they’ll have to have signets, shouts or some other sort of skill since arena net wants more focus on runes and sigils outside of whats typically used. And making them entirely their own special thing would be a mistake for this system. It would mean that they would always have fewer options then the other professions and that isn’t something I think they want.

What skill makes the most sense for necromancer then? Well that entirely depends on how far their core changes go. Who says they’re not due for a new skill type. But given the clues on the necromancer, my guess would be spirits. Now I know what you’re thinking. “But spirits are better at back-line!” And yes, they are. Which is why they’d stick to the back-line while the necromancer took the focus away from those spirits in front-line. I wouldn’t worry about the necromancer getting out of the spirits range either. Spirits generally have a much higher range then shouts do, at least they did. Spirit range used to be almost double that of shout range. At least it was in GW1, I’m not so sure about GW2 as I haven’t used them. Lets also consider the fact that arena net has stated they want spirits to be more impactful. So, if they’re spending time focusing on ranger spirits it could be a clue that another profession is getting spirits. And only 2 other professions currently fit as candidates for spirits. The revenant, or more likely the necromancer.

I don’t really like ANet’s idea that every profession should have utility types shared across other professions.

While I kinda get it that maybe they want to make more utility specific runes, it will really, really put a break on creativity and possibilities.

I’d much rather see more unique utility types.

Lily.1935:

snip

You’re overlooking one of the most important aspects of the Necromancers with shouts idea – we severely lack group play, and shouts can bring that. Elementalists are pretty solid on group support. Engineers could get them, true, but they also aren’t in a situation where group oriented instant casts seems necessary. Thieves could get them in a bard sort of role, but I don’t see it fitting thematically. Rangers and warriors already have them, revenants don’t seem to be able to have them, we already know Guardians and Mesmers don’t have them.

The specializations are filling in profession gaps, and shouts do that for necromancers better than for pretty much every other class that’s an option.

Roe.3679:

Lily.1935:

snip

You’re overlooking one of the most important aspects of the Necromancers with shouts idea – we severely lack group play, and shouts can bring that. Elementalists are pretty solid on group support. Engineers could get them, true, but they also aren’t in a situation where group oriented instant casts seems necessary. Thieves could get them in a bard sort of role, but I don’t see it fitting thematically. Rangers and warriors already have them, revenants don’t seem to be able to have them, we already know Guardians and Mesmers don’t have them.

The specializations are filling in profession gaps, and shouts do that for necromancers better than for pretty much every other class that’s an option.

Except I’m not overlooking it. Spirits fit the group support far better then shouts and have far fewer limitations on what they can do since they can be killed. To give necromancers real uniqueness in terms of party buffs that a group would choose over a warrior they’d need something unique. Shouts can’t provide that for us currently plus their range is too low in comparison to spirits.

Combine this with the idea that our f2-5 could be filled with new ways to use life force, such as orders, shouts become redundant for us, let alone don’t work well with out promised weapon.

Long-casting, stationary, and vulnerable AI. No thank you.

Knox.8462:

Long-casting, stationary, and vulnerable AI. No thank you.

play a warrior then.

Honestly, Spirits were amazing in GW1. Translating them to GW2 would only be more powerful. Plus, if we look at them like engi turrets, we’d be able to bring them out rather quickly. And with amazing actives like, oh I don’t know, party wide invariability, shouts got nothing on spirits.

Lily.1935:

Roe.3679:

Lily.1935:

snip

You’re overlooking one of the most important aspects of the Necromancers with shouts idea – we severely lack group play, and shouts can bring that. Elementalists are pretty solid on group support. Engineers could get them, true, but they also aren’t in a situation where group oriented instant casts seems necessary. Thieves could get them in a bard sort of role, but I don’t see it fitting thematically. Rangers and warriors already have them, revenants don’t seem to be able to have them, we already know Guardians and Mesmers don’t have them.

The specializations are filling in profession gaps, and shouts do that for necromancers better than for pretty much every other class that’s an option.

Except I’m not overlooking it. Spirits fit the group support far better then shouts and have far fewer limitations on what they can do since they can be killed. To give necromancers real uniqueness in terms of party buffs that a group would choose over a warrior they’d need something unique. Shouts can’t provide that for us currently plus their range is too low in comparison to spirits.

Combine this with the idea that our f2-5 could be filled with new ways to use life force, such as orders, shouts become redundant for us, let alone don’t work well with out promised weapon.

I’m pretty sure Rangers already have spirits, and thinking that any new F skills will be comparable to shouts makes no sense to me whatsoever. This is quite a strawman argument, by the way.

If we got spirits they would be useless a huge majority of the time. AI builds in pvp never work, same for wvw. It may help for PVE, but that’s the last place the Devs balance towards.

Shouts on the other hand could be welcome in every game mode.

Lily.1935:

Knox.8462:

Long-casting, stationary, and vulnerable AI. No thank you.

play a warrior then.

Honestly, Spirits were amazing in GW1. Translating them to GW2 would only be more powerful. Plus, if we look at them like engi turrets, we’d be able to bring them out rather quickly. And with amazing actives like, oh I don’t know, party wide invariability, shouts got nothing on spirits.

You’re pulling party wide invuln out of thin air. I mean, just so we’re all on the same page.

Lily.1935:

Knox.8462:

Long-casting, stationary, and vulnerable AI. No thank you.

play a warrior then.

Honestly, Spirits were amazing in GW1. Translating them to GW2 would only be more powerful. Plus, if we look at them like engi turrets, we’d be able to bring them out rather quickly. And with amazing actives like, oh I don’t know, party wide invariability, shouts got nothing on spirits.

Spirits were great in GW1 yes, but in a game dominated by AoE and reactive positioning they’re doomed to be subpar along with the rest of the summon skills. You’ve mentioned turrets which were only considered strong in spvp (and soon to be nerfed).

Considering that we already have a subset of summons, I find it highly unlikely that we’ll get another.

Now I can understand that shouts may sound boring on paper, but I believe there is great potential to give a unique spin with nice animations to boot. Many people were disappointed when it was announced that Guardians were getting traps, but seeing them in action in the demo quickly changed their minds.

Roe.3679:

Lily.1935:

Roe.3679:

Lily.1935:

snip

You’re overlooking one of the most important aspects of the Necromancers with shouts idea – we severely lack group play, and shouts can bring that. Elementalists are pretty solid on group support. Engineers could get them, true, but they also aren’t in a situation where group oriented instant casts seems necessary. Thieves could get them in a bard sort of role, but I don’t see it fitting thematically. Rangers and warriors already have them, revenants don’t seem to be able to have them, we already know Guardians and Mesmers don’t have them.

The specializations are filling in profession gaps, and shouts do that for necromancers better than for pretty much every other class that’s an option.

Except I’m not overlooking it. Spirits fit the group support far better then shouts and have far fewer limitations on what they can do since they can be killed. To give necromancers real uniqueness in terms of party buffs that a group would choose over a warrior they’d need something unique. Shouts can’t provide that for us currently plus their range is too low in comparison to spirits.

Combine this with the idea that our f2-5 could be filled with new ways to use life force, such as orders, shouts become redundant for us, let alone don’t work well with out promised weapon.

I’m pretty sure Rangers already have spirits, and thinking that any new F skills will be comparable to shouts makes no sense to me whatsoever. This is quite a strawman argument, by the way.

If we got spirits they would be useless a huge majority of the time. AI builds in pvp never work, same for wvw. It may help for PVE, but that’s the last place the Devs balance towards.

Shouts on the other hand could be welcome in every game mode.

A strawman argument is when someone misrepresents an argument to make it easier to knock down. I didn’t create a strawman of anyone’s argument at all. Please refrain from taking low blows especially when you don’t understand the context of what it is you are saying.

Rangers do have spirits. And I addressed that in an above post. Which I’m refereeing back to an older post I made in this very thread only minutes before. Presenting me with this information is redundant to say the very least.

I also hinted at orders in that very same post I mentioned the spirits in suggesting we don’t know how our base mechanic might change. Further elaborating in the next post with the addition of orders. With taking into consideration how our mechanic might change we can’t be certain that shouts wouldn’t be redundant.

I only mentioned PvE in passing, but the post was also about PvP possibilities which I didn’t go into any detail about I’ll admit. Considering the strength of turrets in the past and major roles they don’t currently fill in that meta that spirts in GW1 did, this only supports my case.

Shouts currently in GW2 do not have the complexity for deeper support. And since Arena net has gone on record in saying they don’t want to increase complexity too much so that its easier to watch and understand this prevents something like shouts from doing something too complicated. Shouts don’t generally have a animation they have a bit of voice acting, sure but this means that any sort of support they can provide will be limited to the basic UI we currently see them doing. Conditions and boons.

Spirits on the other hand can have a very unique look to each of them letting them have a visual idea of what those spirits will do. This gives players the ability to counter play the spirits and target specific ones and understand what buffs they give. A spectator could also identify the spirits and have an easier time understanding just what it is they are doing. You could have a spirit with a shield and suddenly the spectator without ever playing the game knows that the spirit is providing some kind or protective ability.

Roe.3679:

You’re pulling party wide invuln out of thin air. I mean, just so we’re all on the same page.

Shouts are being pulled out of the air as well. Honestly, this entire thread is just speculation.

Knox.8462:

Spirits were great in GW1 yes, but in a game dominated by AoE and reactive positioning they’re doomed to be subpar along with the rest of the summon skills. You’ve mentioned turrets which were only considered strong in spvp (and soon to be nerfed).

Considering that we already have a subset of summons, I find it highly unlikely that we’ll get another.

Now I can understand that shouts may sound boring on paper, but I believe there is great potential to give a unique spin with nice animations to boot. Many people were disappointed when it was announced that Guardians were getting traps, but seeing them in action in the demo quickly changed their minds.

Its not that they sound boring, its that they can’t provide complexity to our profession or anything that really makes us stand out without breaking a Guild Wars philosophy that arena net has gone on record in saying. See an above post I just made. Don’t want to repeat myself.

And allot of people were still upset about the Guardian after the life stream. People’s feelings doesn’t come into account here. I personally felt that the Dragonhunter idea was kinda cool. Like a Constantine or Van Helsing sort of idea with big game hunter mixed in. But my feelings aside, that’s irreverent.

I have to agree with Lily on one thing.

Spirits can be far more interesting and advanced mechanic. Look at all various spirit skills Ritualist had. While you simply can’t make shouts as interesting. They’re all fire and forget.

We all have Ranger’s spirits stuck in minds. Stupid AI, dying and dying.

Currently, there are two major problems with such summons:

1. Cleave&AoE
2. Mobility

Problem #1 has been a glaring issue in this game for a while now. Skills are often made in a way that technically they aren’t AoE, but they are. Called cleave.

About a year ago, I posted lenghty post about this issue on Ranger forums.
Thing is, we can’t make summons resist flat % of AoE and Cleave or totally exlude it, it isn’t ideal. Main factor is PvE where such summon, immune to AoE for example, could kill a boss who does only AoE.

My suggested fix is targeting for AI. The game already relies primarly on having set target.
If nothing was tab-targeting your AI, let’s say spirit, it would have some good resistance to both flat damage and conditions.

But once something sould tab-target your spirit, it would lose all that resistance with possibly a debuff for the duration of being targeted.

With that, we could tone down massive health or other stat defense from AI. If you would like to destroy one, let’s say, spirit, you could target it and since it would have no bonus resistance and less defensive stats now, destroy more easily. Oh, and all AI could be excluded from AoE limit.

The one problem I can think of is “Structure encounters” like Shatterer. But since they have a timer and AI do way less damage than players overall, chances that AI alone would kill strucuture bosses in time is really low.

2. Mobility:
a)make them mobile
b)allow us to reposition them
c)make them short cooldown
d)make them kinda like banners, but with more mechanics possibly

Lily.1935:

A strawman argument is when someone misrepresents an argument to make it easier to knock down. I didn’t create a strawman of anyone’s argument at all. Please refrain from taking low blows especially when you don’t understand the context of what it is you are saying.

Like you just did, by insinuating that shouts may be unnecessary because of new F skills that could mimic orders?

Lily.1935:

Rangers do have spirits. And I addressed that in an above post. Which I’m refereeing back to an older post I made in this very thread only minutes before. Presenting me with this information is redundant to say the very least.

So then we are on the same page that spirits are not unique.

Lily.1935:

I also hinted at orders in that very same post I mentioned the spirits in suggesting we don’t know how our base mechanic might change. Further elaborating in the next post with the addition of orders. With taking into consideration how our mechanic might change we can’t be certain that shouts wouldn’t be redundant.

Why would they make F skills similar to shouts? F skills are almost entirely selfish skills across all classes. This makes 0 sense.

Lily.1935:

I only mentioned PvE in passing, but the post was also about PvP possibilities which I didn’t go into any detail about I’ll admit. Considering the strength of turrets in the past and major roles they don’t currently fill in that meta that spirts in GW1 did, this only supports my case.

Since we both know that spirits already exist in GW2, and we know that they had a brief period of being OP before being nerfed into oblivion, I’d say your case is weak. Turrets were also nerfed. Again, spirits seem like a PVE only buff and that’s not how ANet balances.

Lily.1935:

Shouts currently in GW2 do not have the complexity for deeper support. And since Arena net has gone on record in saying they don’t want to increase complexity too much so that its easier to watch and understand this prevents something like shouts from doing something too complicated. Shouts don’t generally have a animation they have a bit of voice acting, sure but this means that any sort of support they can provide will be limited to the basic UI we currently see them doing. Conditions and boons.

Shouts don’t need to be complicated, in fact that’s what makes them desirable.

Not to mention that our elites are stuck in transformation boxes, and our heals are either useless or long casts. Shouts fix those problems.

Spirits on the other hand can have a very unique look to each of them letting them have a visual idea of what those spirits will do. This gives players the ability to counter play the spirits and target specific ones and understand what buffs they give. A spectator could also identify the spirits and have an easier time understanding just what it is they are doing. You could have a spirit with a shield and suddenly the spectator without ever playing the game knows that the spirit is providing some kind or protective ability.

This doesn’t even make sense to me. So a spectator has to watch the players and the AI? And doesn’t this just highlight how easy it is to destroy AI? We already have a very similar playstyle in minions, and this playstyle doesn’t succeed at all in PvP. Shouts on the other hand are instant and impossible to counter because of it.