Guild Wars 2

Watch me put up huge numbers with Faelwan and Chuck. Please, compare this with warrior burst test by strife:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/15gekn/my_attempt_at_a_warrior_weapon_dps_test/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_686558&feature=iv&src_vid=-L0NdxTZv6E&v=2WOonDJfRDk

My video:

Edit: This is a burst test! Not a skill challenge. There is a major difference. If you want to see me solo a mob, you’ll have to wait for me to save up money to buy the full version of fraps.

Glass Canon build works very well in PvE, where the mobs focus your pet. You would die to any decent player in seconds in WvW, while my Warrior build not only has the average Rangers survivability, but better damage than you showed there.

Your point? PvE mobs are nubs?

I find it absolutely hilarious though that Warriors are posting videos of solo killing boss mobs in dungeons many groups have trouble with, and you show us a video of you killing a mob many of us were killing by level 76.

It’s not even a comparison.

jkctmc.8754:

I find it absolutely hilarious though that Warriors are posting videos of solo killing boss mobs in dungeons many groups have trouble with, and you show us a video of you killing a mob many of us were killing by level 76.

It’s not even a comparison.

Did you watch strife’s video? It’s a burst test, not a skill challenge. You completely missed the point. You know why you did that? Because you couldn’t wait to insult me or cut me down. You’re a troll.

jkctmc.8754:

Glass Canon build works very well in PvE, where the mobs focus your pet. You would die to any decent player in seconds in WvW, while my Warrior build not only has the average Rangers survivability, but better damage than you showed there.

Your point? PvE mobs are nubs?

Watch strife’s video. It’s a burst test. The point was that I can speed run CoF in berserker gear just as well as any warrior because I’ve done it. Don’t act a fool and pretend I play like this in wvw.

I follow this advice and suggest you do the same:

“Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” Bruce lee

Your boy strife025, warrior/dungeon master, came up with this technique of burst damage measurement so if you don’t like it, take it up with him. This is a benchmark test. Any skilled player with any profession can solo the soloable dungeon bosses.

Chopps.5047:

Your boy strife025, warrior/dungeon master, came up with this technique of burst damage measurement so if you don’t like it, take it up with him. This is a benchmark test. Any skilled player with any profession can solo the soloable dungeon bosses.

Prove it, if anyone can, do it. Go solo some of the bosses that Warriors have. When you try it, you’ll see the huge difference in both damage, and survivability a class needs, and that which the Warrior has.

There has been no other class that has duplicated the kills a Warrior has, solo.

So prove it.

Until you can show a video of you soloing bosses Warriors do, then nothing you show matters. You’re taking a build that does not work in WvW, nor even sPvP, when nothing his hitting you, and calling it even steven, when it isn’t even remotely close to even.

We await your videos of killing these bosses.

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

Your boy strife025, warrior/dungeon master, came up with this technique of burst damage measurement so if you don’t like it, take it up with him. This is a benchmark test. Any skilled player with any profession can solo the soloable dungeon bosses.

Prove it, if anyone can, do it. Go solo some of the bosses that Warriors have. When you try it, you’ll see the huge difference in both damage, and survivability a class needs, and that which the Warrior has.

There has been no other class that has duplicated the kills a Warrior has, solo.

So prove it.

The point was that I can burst just as much as a warrior…I’m pretty sure I just made a comparable benchmark in burst. Why won’t you address that? Pay for my full version of fraps (see the www.fraps.com at the top of my screen?) and I’ll post a video of myself soloing GL. But that’s a different topic. I know this is hard for the amphetamine generation, but focus! FOCUS!

Put your money where your mouth is. Ignorance to the fact that the reason strife025 solo’d GL was because he learned how to properly evade. That’s a foreign concept to most warriors but an intricate part to ranger play. I can evade grubs. I can evade GL shadow step. I can hurt GL. Open your eyes. I was likely mastering evasion before you even picked up the game.

I have dungeon master and arah dungeon relic gears. I know how to fight GL.

Until you can show a video of you soloing bosses Warriors do, then nothing you show matters. You’re taking a build that does not work in WvW, nor even sPvP, when nothing his hitting you, and calling it even steven, when it isn’t even remotely close to even.

We await your videos of killing these bosses.

All I have is demo fraps, I don’t know what to tell you but I guarantee you I could solo GL.

Why don’t you go buy fraps and post a video, there tough guy? It’s a matter of skill, not profession—haven’t you figured that out? You’re a bandwagoning frontrunner who forms opinions based on hearsay rather than fact.

Even your warrior boy strife025 says, and I quote, “It took me 10 or 12 hours to get this down”. Go to 3:50 seconds!

You think warrior is so OP that GL is easy? HAHAHAH No wonder every new warrior I play with in Arah tends to struggle, if that’s the attitude you have. It’s a boss. Bosses have mechanics. The mechanics leave weaknesses. Learn the weaknesses of the boss.

Didn’t you ever read Destiny’s Edge? Caithe explains this very clearly. And, hey, jkctmc, you want to talk dungeon bosses? Let’s talk them. I’ve beaten every single one—with my ranger because that’s all I play. Have you beaten every single boss?

You truly can’t understand the difference in killing such an easy to kill mob, that doesn’t force you to defend at all, versus killing a much, much, much tougher mob, that requires you to also have defend as well?

You might as well be hitting one of the training dummies.

You say you could solo Lupicus, so prove it. Warriors have, and there is a video of it. You’re trying to claim the Ranger is just as good, but you are not willing to prove it.

Instead, you throw around insults.

jkctmc.8754:

You truly can’t understand the difference in killing such an easy to kill mob, that doesn’t force you to defend at all, versus killing a much, much, much tougher mob, that requires you to also have defend as well?

You might as well be hitting one of the training dummies.

You say you could solo Lupicus, so prove it. Warriors have, and there is a video of it. You’re trying to claim the Ranger is just as good, but you are not willing to prove it.

Instead, you throw around insults.

First of all I am willing to prove it but my version of fraps records a 30 second clip. I’ve said that a few times but, like most of what I write, you tend to ignore it.

Even your warrior boy strife025 says, and I quote, “It took me 10 or 12 hours to get this down”. Go to 3:50 seconds!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WJP0LR5VU

You think warrior is so OP that GL is easy? HAHAHAH No wonder every new warrior I play with in Arah tends to struggle, if that’s the attitude you have.

You think playing warrior gives you a free ride?

It’s a boss. Bosses have mechanics. The mechanics leave weaknesses. Learn the weaknesses of the boss and you can win with any profession that you actually understand, which you clearly don’t get ranger.

Didn’t you ever read Destiny’s Edge? Caithe explains this very clearly. And, hey, jkctmc, you want to talk dungeon bosses? Let’s talk them. I’ve beaten every single one—with my ranger because that’s all I play. Have you beaten every single boss?

Chopps.5047: Why don’t you go buy fraps and post a video, there tough guy? It’s a matter of skill, not profession—haven’t you figured that out? You’re a bandwagoning frontrunner who forms opinions based on hearsay rather than fact.

You said you could do it, you have been saying Rangers are equal to Warriors. Prove it. I can’t solo Lupicus on my Ranger, but have got pretty close on my Warrior. You now have the chance to prove how much better at playing the Ranger, than every other Ranger in the game, by doing what you said you could do. That is, solo Lupicus. A Warrior has done it, so you can to, right?

Chopps.5047: Even your warrior boy strife025 says, and I quote, “It took me 10 or 12 hours to get this down”. Go to 3:50 seconds!

You’re backpeddaling, and this doesn’t matter.

Chopps.5047: You think warrior is so OP that GL is easy?

No where have I said a Warrior was overpowered, ever. Putting words in my mouth to support your argument does not work brother. I have said (follow me now, I’ll use as few words as I can) that out of 5 fully geared level 80s, I have not played a class that felt as complete as the Warrior, also saying; “Rangers have a few bugs, and trait synergy that needs to be fixed”

Chopps.5047 No wonder every new warrior I play with in Arah tends to struggle, if that’s the attitude you have. It’s a boss. Bosses have mechanics. The mechanics leave weaknesses. Learn the weaknesses of the boss.

Right, Warriors have killed Lupicus solo, and you say you can on the Ranger. Do it already and prove beyond doubt that the Ranger is equal to the Warrior.

Don’t listen to jkctmc, he’s obviously a troll who just came here to shut me down. I don’t appreciate that and personally I think you’re a strange bird to say the least, jk. If you like warrior so much, why don’t you go back to the warrior forums and perfect your easy mode profession play since obviously ranger is too hard for you.

Chopps.5047:

Don’t listen to jkctmc, he’s obviously a troll who just came here to shut me down. I don’t appreciate that and personally I think you’re a strange bird to say the least, jk. If you like warrior so much, why don’t you go back to the warrior forums and perfect your easy mode profession play since obviously ranger is too hard for you.

You see, I do very well on the Ranger, I just see the potential of the other classes, and realize they’re better than the Ranger. I happen to like things as close to balanced as possible, I also like to see complete games, with fewer bugs.

Identifying issues, does not mean something is hard. In the real world brother, you know the working world, it just means that you’ve identified an area that could be better. It’s usually done by a quality assurance team. Unfortunately, we do not have a test server with this game, yet. I would bet it is in the plans for the near future.

The difference between players like me, and well, you. I will spend countless hours on the test server to make things better for you. And get this, not once will I ever ask for recognition for the work I’ll be doing for this game, that same kind of work I’ve been doing for games since Everquest 1.

Chopps: try “http://www.zdsoft.com/” it will watermark your video but has no restrictions on unregistered recording time length. (the ‘demo’ will expire in 30 days)

I’d love to see a Ranger kick-some-boss….

Chopps.5047:

Watch strife’s video. It’s a burst test. The point was that I can speed run CoF in berserker gear just as well as any warrior because I’ve done it.

I watched strife’s video and your video. Hate to say it, but what I took away from them was that (1) strife chose a very poor target for a burst test, and (2) warrior burst is about 50% higher than ranger+pet burst. You used RaO for stability and didn’t have to dodge the stomps. You were pouring on damage 100% of the time. Strife spent about a quarter to a third of his time dodging and running back to melee range, not dealing damage.

OTOH it was fun watching you take down the vet giant that quickly. Good show. Thanks for the video.

What was your build here? Standard full zerkers gear as well, I assume? And you mentioned dungeons… do you actually run a zerker type build there?

Thanks for the video:)

Every class can solo GL, all that is required is stability or ports to survive the bubble in phase 3.

Sure its not possible to match a warriors dps but a ranger gets kitten close, but people apparently cant play rangers and control their pet which easily does more dps than a ranger.

Interesting video. Any thoughts on doing one with bows as well? Also, ignore that one poster. Seriously, stop addressing him. We have videos worth talking about and the first dozen posts are about him raising some stupid arguments.

Sad thing is, warrior killed the mob faster without quickness, 6 seconds faster is huge.

I’m not hating on you or your ranger, because I’m a ranger main too, and i’ve recently converted from traps/SB to a more bursty build …but this isn’t really bursty, and like said was before pretty much is only applicable in this “burst test” because the giant focuses on your pet.

popping all your utilities at once and then mostly just pressing sword 1 at his turned back isn’t really impressive or likely to work anywhere. You can burst down this giant in 24s but if you do this same thing elsewhere you’ll be useless from after24s till all of your cooldowns are perfectly lined up including the elite, so in that unsupported time you’ll most likely end up doing less damage overall than a sustained burst build would do.

you missed splitblade. don’t you want 5 bleeds + burns :P?

Solandri.9640:

I watched strife’s video and your video. Hate to say it, but what I took away from them was that (1) strife chose a very poor target for a burst test, and (2) warrior burst is about 50% higher than ranger+pet burst. You used RaO for stability and didn’t have to dodge the stomps. You were pouring on damage 100% of the time. Strife spent about a quarter to a third of his time dodging and running back to melee range, not dealing damage.

How’s that different from using skills that gives vulnerability to your target? You use boons/conditions to your advantage?

Nice job on proving that ranger isn’t really that bad in offense department, it’s mostly bad players. About lupi solo challenge, I’m sure that Wethospu could do it on ranger or other classes, the issue often doesn’t lie with a class but with a player. Soloing lupi is doable definitely on warrior, guardian and elementalist.

Chopps.5047:

Don’t listen to jkctmc, he’s obviously a troll who just came here to shut me down. I don’t appreciate that and personally I think you’re a strange bird to say the least, jk. If you like warrior so much, why don’t you go back to the warrior forums and perfect your easy mode profession play since obviously ranger is too hard for you.

Actually he’s just calling you out on your own claims, in this case it ammounted to you saying dungeon bosses were easy to solo, put up or shut up there’s nothing else to it.

haviz.1340:

How’s that different from using skills that gives vulnerability to your target? You use boons/conditions to your advantage?

Because it’s supposed to be a burst test, and the warrior video quite obviously wasn’t a burst test (even though it’s billed as such). He was dodging a good portion of the time.

Edit: To clarify, a burst test is supposed to compare how long it takes you to do a fixed amount of damage (or how much damage you can do in a fixed amount of time). Nothing more. By picking a mob which has a knockback attack, he’s now thrown a second variable into the equation. What we have isn’t a burst test. We have a test against a mob which must at times be dodged or countered with stability, and times from two different classes one of whom chose to use stability and the other who chose to dodge. It’s a very poor comparison.

Regardless of negligible factors, Chopps’ video shows a ranger with comparable damage to a warrior. This is some evidence that we are not so weak and gimped as some love to claim. Even with extra time added from quickness or stability or whatever excuse, the ranger still does comparable damage. Props to Chopps, maybe this vid can at least teach some rangers not to listen to forum whines about how weak the ranger is.

Jazenn.7526:

Regardless of negligible factors, Chopps’ video shows a ranger with comparable damage to a warrior. This is some evidence that we are not so weak and gimped as some love to claim. Even with extra time added from quickness or stability or whatever excuse, the ranger still does comparable damage. Props to Chopps, maybe this vid can at least teach some rangers not to listen to forum whines about how weak the ranger is.

Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.

I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.

That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.

A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.

jkctmc.8754:

Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.

I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.

That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.

A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.

Let me ask you this way, if the test was done with a guardian who hadn’t had to use dodges because of aegis, would it be invalid?

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

Regardless of negligible factors, Chopps’ video shows a ranger with comparable damage to a warrior. This is some evidence that we are not so weak and gimped as some love to claim. Even with extra time added from quickness or stability or whatever excuse, the ranger still does comparable damage. Props to Chopps, maybe this vid can at least teach some rangers not to listen to forum whines about how weak the ranger is.

Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.

I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.

That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.

A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.

I know what burst is and I looked at the test. While I didn’t need convincing, I still found it a good show of ranger damage. You obviously disagree, as usual, because it seems like you think warrior is the best class in the game. That’s your opinion though. I didn’t watch the whole warrior video I skimmed through and saw some times. The fastest I saw was about 26 seconds, Chopps said his was 24. Maybe there was a 18 second kill by the warrior but I just didn’t notice it from skipping around.

Lol you love to be rude though don’t you?

haviz.1340:

jkctmc.8754:

Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.

I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.

That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.

A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.

Let me ask you this way, if the test was done with a guardian who hadn’t had to use dodges because of aegis, would it be invalid?

Yes it would be invalid, however Aegis only lasts for one hit, and the Guardian would trigger Save Yourselves to give himself the Stability needed to prevent stomp. But even the Guardian has another element here, the Ranger doesn’t in PvE. The Guardian is now racing the mob to see who kills who first, before the Guardian also has to trigger his healing.

Once you add other elements to the test, it no longer remains a benchmark for burst, or sustainable DPS.

In the Ranger video, the Ranger never gets attacked, while able to completely ignore the stomps thanks to Rampage. This video actually shows the power of Rampage, over anything else, and how it helps the Ranger. Though once you enter WvW, the Guardians ability to give the entire group Stability greatly surpasses the usefulness of Rampage.

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

Regardless of negligible factors, Chopps’ video shows a ranger with comparable damage to a warrior. This is some evidence that we are not so weak and gimped as some love to claim. Even with extra time added from quickness or stability or whatever excuse, the ranger still does comparable damage. Props to Chopps, maybe this vid can at least teach some rangers not to listen to forum whines about how weak the ranger is.

Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.

I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.

That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.

A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.

I know what burst is and I looked at the test. While I didn’t need convincing, I still found it a good show of ranger damage. You obviously disagree, as usual, because it seems like you think warrior is the best class in the game. That’s your opinion though. I didn’t watch the whole warrior video I skimmed through and saw some times. The fastest I saw was about 26 seconds, Chopps said his was 24. Maybe there was a 18 second kill by the warrior but I just didn’t notice it from skipping around.

Lol you love to be rude though don’t you?

Chopps didn’t do it in 24 seconds, and that is why someone else suggested he use another program so he can get the actual time.

I’m working on a parser for this game, and once I iron out the issues, you’ll get a better idea of what is really going on.

However, that is besides the point. PvE is ungodly easy in this game, and sPvP is nerfed pretty harsh to give the illusion of balance, and allow for an easier mode of play. The only results I’m concerned about are those gathered in WvW, where you fight smarter opponents, sometimes under the fire of siege.

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

Regardless of negligible factors, Chopps’ video shows a ranger with comparable damage to a warrior. This is some evidence that we are not so weak and gimped as some love to claim. Even with extra time added from quickness or stability or whatever excuse, the ranger still does comparable damage. Props to Chopps, maybe this vid can at least teach some rangers not to listen to forum whines about how weak the ranger is.

Quit being so delusional. The Ranger never got hit, never had to dodge, and the giant focused the pet 100% of the time. The Warrior had to dodge, avoid being hit by the stomp, and still killed the giant faster than the Ranger by at least SIX SECONDS.

I undersand math, or the idea of math is hard for some people, but take away the multiple dodges, and the Warrior would have killed the giant by at least six seconds sooner. Giving him at least a (12) twelve second lead on the Ranger.

That is only comparable while in grade school, but once you get a high school education, you fully understand the differences.

A true test will require a length of time that both classes are required to utilize defense, a test that spans the length of minutes. It’s like saying a car built to do a quarter mile drag race is faster than a car built to do 500 laps at top speeds around the track. If you can’t understand the analogy, I’ll spell it out in more simple terms. It is false logic, and the statement becomes false.

I know what burst is and I looked at the test. While I didn’t need convincing, I still found it a good show of ranger damage. You obviously disagree, as usual, because it seems like you think warrior is the best class in the game. That’s your opinion though. I didn’t watch the whole warrior video I skimmed through and saw some times. The fastest I saw was about 26 seconds, Chopps said his was 24. Maybe there was a 18 second kill by the warrior but I just didn’t notice it from skipping around.

Lol you love to be rude though don’t you?

Chopps didn’t do it in 24 seconds, and that is why someone else suggested he use another program so he can get the actual time.

I’m working on a parser for this game, and once I iron out the issues, you’ll get a better idea of what is really going on.

However, that is besides the point. PvE is ungodly easy in this game, and sPvP is nerfed pretty harsh to give the illusion of balance, and allow for an easier mode of play. The only results I’m concerned about are those gathered in WvW, where you fight smarter opponents, sometimes under the fire of siege.

Alright well if you could get the correct times that would be good. I agree that WvW is also important. It has even more variables though, and really comes down to skill in solo and team fights over builds. Plenty of vids convince me of that. Once again, just my opinion.

If a warrior is required to dodge for maximum burst, while a ranger is not, the ranger is relatively better at bursting a mob with CC than a warrior is. It’s dumb to say “yeah but add ANOTHER 6 seconds for the dodges!!1!11” when the test is clearly looking to see how fast you burst down the giant. Ranger has the luxury of not needing to dodge, warrior doesn’t.
I guess though this concept is too hard for jkc. Go ahead and do burst tests to mobs without cc so people like him understand what’s going on.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

If a warrior is required to dodge for maximum burst, while a ranger is not, the ranger is relatively better at bursting a mob with CC than a warrior is. It’s dumb to say “yeah but add ANOTHER 6 seconds for the dodges!!1!11” when the test is clearly looking to see how fast you burst down the giant.

That’s why this is a bad test mob. Its stomp does a knockdown, meaning it’s not just a matter of tanking damage. You have to dodge or use stability to avoid the knockdown.

Ranger has the luxury of not needing to dodge, warrior doesn’t.

Nope. The warrior could have used stability. He chose to dodge instead. The ranger could have dodged. He used stability instead. That makes it a poor comparison.

If you’re arguing against a burst test, and want a more realistic “in practical use test”… Well since rampage as one has a 120 sec cooldown for a 20 sec effect, 5/6th of time you don’t have it available. So a test that’s better representative of typical gameplay would be with the ranger dodging and the pet being disabled due to the knockdowns. Then you can compare times with the warrior dodging.

Or you can ask the warrior to redo his test using stability, and compare times to the ranger using RaO.

jkctmc.8754:

Yes it would be invalid, however Aegis only lasts for one hit, and the Guardian would trigger Save Yourselves to give himself the Stability needed to prevent stomp. But even the Guardian has another element here, the Ranger doesn’t in PvE. The Guardian is now racing the mob to see who kills who first, before the Guardian also has to trigger his healing.

Once you add other elements to the test, it no longer remains a benchmark for burst, or sustainable DPS.

Then warrior will always win every single dps test because that’s his way to avoid damage – dodge. Aegis lasts two hits if you actually use it and it’s a part of guardian’s mechanics meaning it is valid, otherwise we should remove evade element from whirwind attack or just say it’s not allowed to use because it deals damage when you should take it.

In the Ranger video, the Ranger never gets attacked, while able to completely ignore the stomps thanks to Rampage. This video actually shows the power of Rampage, over anything else, and how it helps the Ranger. Though once you enter WvW, the Guardians ability to give the entire group Stability greatly surpasses the usefulness of Rampage.

It’s clearly pve test, test subject is pve mob.

However, that is besides the point. PvE is ungodly easy in this game, and sPvP is nerfed pretty harsh to give the illusion of balance, and allow for an easier mode of play. The only results I’m concerned about are those gathered in WvW, where you fight smarter opponents, sometimes under the fire of siege.

You can certainly make someone’s day.

Solandri.9640:

Nope. The warrior could have used stability. He chose to dodge instead. The ranger could have dodged. He used stability instead. That makes it a poor comparison.

If you’re arguing against a burst test, and want a more realistic “in practical use test”… Well since rampage as one has a 120 sec cooldown for a 20 sec effect, 5/6th of time you don’t have it available. So a test that’s better representative of typical gameplay would be with the ranger dodging and the pet being disabled due to the knockdowns. Then you can compare times with the warrior dodging.

Or you can ask the warrior to redo his test using stability, and compare times to the ranger using RaO.

Stop being blind and see that warrior uses whirlwind attack which gives evade.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

If a warrior is required to dodge for maximum burst, while a ranger is not, the ranger is relatively better at bursting a mob with CC than a warrior is. It’s dumb to say “yeah but add ANOTHER 6 seconds for the dodges!!1!11” when the test is clearly looking to see how fast you burst down the giant. Ranger has the luxury of not needing to dodge, warrior doesn’t.
I guess though this concept is too hard for jkc. Go ahead and do burst tests to mobs without cc so people like him understand what’s going on.

Watch these two videos, they’ll help you understand why you miss the obvious, and the issue people like you, and Chopps have with the reality of things.

It is ok that you do not understand the state of the game, no one is faulting you for that. It is even harder to understand how things apply to world vs world. Again, no one is faulting you for not understanding. Most people refuse to level toons, or enjoy the nerfed state of sPvP, and its; “control a point” type of play. When they do leave PvE, they enter world vs world, and join a zerg, rather than form a single group, or run solo.

Solandri.9640:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

If a warrior is required to dodge for maximum burst, while a ranger is not, the ranger is relatively better at bursting a mob with CC than a warrior is. It’s dumb to say “yeah but add ANOTHER 6 seconds for the dodges!!1!11” when the test is clearly looking to see how fast you burst down the giant.

That’s why this is a bad test mob. Its stomp does a knockdown, meaning it’s not just a matter of tanking damage. You have to dodge or use stability to avoid the knockdown.

Ranger has the luxury of not needing to dodge, warrior doesn’t.

Nope. The warrior could have used stability. He chose to dodge instead. The ranger could have dodged. He used stability instead. That makes it a poor comparison.

If you’re arguing against a burst test, and want a more realistic “in practical use test”… Well since rampage as one has a 120 sec cooldown for a 20 sec effect, 5/6th of time you don’t have it available. So a test that’s better representative of typical gameplay would be with the ranger dodging and the pet being disabled due to the knockdowns. Then you can compare times with the warrior dodging.

Or you can ask the warrior to redo his test using stability, and compare times to the ranger using RaO.

I agree with this.

Also, your name is familiar to me. Are you perhaps the same Solandri that once posted on the PWI forums?

I feel like warrior damage is a bit overtuned anyway. not only do they dish out high burst, they are capable of extremely high sustained DPS as well. A full berserker warrior dealing 4k critical hits with his hammer’s auto attack is something my guardian could never match.

jkctmc: Can you get off the WvW/PvP bit? You seem to be the only one mentioning those modes of play while the OP’s video and dialog always show or imply PvE.

No one cares about WvW or PvP here – it was a ‘burst demonstration’ in PvE.

Personally, I would not discount the use of the Rangers Pet – its our Class Feature and if the giant is busy stomping on our Pet instead of us – that is a class mechanic and an advantage – we don’t have to dodge if we get the pet to attack 1st and then get behind the target so that its sandwenched between us and our pet.

While I’d still love to see videos of Rangers ‘solo any boss’, I really could not care less about how well (or not) we perform in PvP or WvW and if the surveys of what game modes the majority of players are actually using are correct, hardly anyone else does ether.

M.

haviz.1340:

Stop being blind and see that warrior uses whirlwind attack which gives evade.

I rewatched his video just for you.

1) He only uses it on 2 of the 5 stomps the giant makes in his GS tests. He dodges the other 3 times. He never uses it in the majority of his tests done with axe/axe and axe/mace – he dodges – since obviously those weapons don’t have the skill.

2) You do know how the skill works, right? You don’t whirl in place. You charge forward doing an attack and evade. The skill leaves you facing the wrong way and out of position to continue doing damage against your target, thus lowering your DPS in a single target burst test (unless you have sufficient ranged attacks to tide you over until you’re back in melee range).

He tries to compensate for it by using the opportunity to use the #4 skill (throw the GS, which doesn’t really need to be done from outside melee range), then use #5 (rush the target) to get back into position. But it looks like he has melee assist on and the #5 rush skill kept him running into the giant for the full 2 sec duration, preventing him from attacking again until the entire 2 sec is up.

Quarktastic.1027:

Also, your name is familiar to me. Are you perhaps the same Solandri that once posted on the PWI forums?

Yes.

MaRko.3165:

Personally, I would not discount the use of the Rangers Pet – its our Class Feature and if the giant is busy stomping on our Pet instead of us – that is a class mechanic and an advantage – we don’t have to dodge if we get the pet to attack 1st and then get behind the target so that its sandwenched between us and our pet.

Agreed. I’m not sure what the knockdown radius is on this particular mob’s stomp, so the ranger very well could have an advantage there. However the pet is doing a substantial amount of the damage (looks like it’s hitting for 2k-6k). So the knockdown (5 sec?) even on just the pet would have a significant impact on time to kill.

I watched those warrior videos..

at most I seen him have to dodge maybe one time usually..

It honestly didn’t cause a massive DPS loss.

Don’t know what the fuss is about in this thread

Xsorus.2507:

I watched those warrior videos..

at most I seen him have to dodge maybe one time usually..

It honestly didn’t cause a massive DPS loss.

Don’t know what the fuss is about in this thread

No one wants to be wrong lol. But that’s okay, discussion is what forums are for. (as long as they stay positive)

Solandri.9640:

haviz.1340:

Stop being blind and see that warrior uses whirlwind attack which gives evade.

I rewatched his video just for you.

1) He only uses it on 2 of the 5 stomps the giant makes in his GS tests. He dodges the other 3 times. He never uses it in the majority of his tests done with axe/axe and axe/mace – he dodges – since obviously those weapons don’t have the skill.

2) You do know how the skill works, right? You don’t whirl in place. You charge forward doing an attack and evade. The skill leaves you facing the wrong way and out of position to continue doing damage against your target, thus lowering your DPS in a single target burst test (unless you have sufficient ranged attacks to tide you over until you’re back in melee range).

He tries to compensate for it by using the opportunity to use the #4 skill (throw the GS, which doesn’t really need to be done from outside melee range), then use #5 (rush the target) to get back into position. But it looks like he has melee assist on and the #5 rush skill kept him running into the giant for the full 2 sec duration, preventing him from attacking again until the entire 2 sec is up.

Quarktastic.1027:

Also, your name is familiar to me. Are you perhaps the same Solandri that once posted on the PWI forums?

Yes.

MaRko.3165:

Personally, I would not discount the use of the Rangers Pet – its our Class Feature and if the giant is busy stomping on our Pet instead of us – that is a class mechanic and an advantage – we don’t have to dodge if we get the pet to attack 1st and then get behind the target so that its sandwenched between us and our pet.

Agreed. I’m not sure what the knockdown radius is on this particular mob’s stomp, so the ranger very well could have an advantage there. However the pet is doing a substantial amount of the damage (looks like it’s hitting for 2k-6k). So the knockdown (5 sec?) even on just the pet would have a significant impact on time to kill.

5s petknockdown would certainly matter as the jag does more damage than him, but he’s using RaO it gives stability to the pet too.

Solandri.9640:

-snip

It still makes the test invalid, either use it and stability is valid as well or don’t at all. Arguing that stability makes this test invalid is just a nonsense which jkctmc confirmed saying aegis would make same test invalid for guardian. It’s a class skill, how does that make any sense? You’re allowed to use your class mechanics.

haviz.1340:

Solandri.9640:

-snip

It still makes the test invalid, either use it and stability is valid as well or don’t at all. Arguing that stability makes this test invalid is just a nonsense which jkctmc confirmed saying aegis would make same test invalid for guardian. It’s a class skill, how does that make any sense? You’re allowed to use your class mechanics.

Because it is supposed to be a burst, or sustainable damage test, not a defense or utility test. The Ranger had the chance to do uninterrupted damage, the Warrior did not.

Could I equally submit this video;

..as a benchmark for world vs world because a Confusion build Mesmer downed a Warrior in 6 seconds, (watch between 0:54 and 1:00) gaining Confusion tick damage in bursts with back to back damage; 5479, 5900, 6743, 7165?

People rarely complain about PvE because it is god awful easy to manage. What most people complain about, or are concerned about is world vs world, where damage is extremely high.

Show me a non-Asuran Ranger who can do the burst in world vs world the video shows the Mesmer doing against ascended geared players, and I’ll eat my words.

jkctmc.8754:

Because it is supposed to be a burst, or sustainable damage test, not a defense or utility test. The Ranger had the chance to do uninterrupted damage, the Warrior did not.

So you can use utility skills that help you with increasing damage (banner) but not able to take skills/use class mechanics that help you with sustaining it. Great thinking.

Could I equally submit this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMI_MzO52lw

..as a benchmark for world vs world because a Confusion build Mesmer downed a Warrior in 6 seconds, (watch between 0:54 and 1:00) gaining Confusion tick damage in bursts with back to back damage; 5479, 5900, 6743, 7165?

People rarely complain about PvE because it is god awful easy to manage. What most people complain about, or are concerned about is world vs world, where damage is extremely high.

Show me a non-Asuran Ranger who can do the burst in world vs world the video shows the Mesmer doing against ascended geared players, and I’ll eat my words.

Get this through your thick head, this is PvE not ZvZ burst test. No one cares about unbalanced fights with double confusion damage and players that stupid. I can kill another player in less than a second with a thief against ascended geared players. Your mesmer burst is a joke compared to my thief.

haviz.1340:

jkctmc.8754:

Because it is supposed to be a burst, or sustainable damage test, not a defense or utility test. The Ranger had the chance to do uninterrupted damage, the Warrior did not.

So you can use utility skills that help you with increasing damage (banner) but not able to take skills/use class mechanics that help you with sustaining it. Great thinking.

Could I equally submit this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMI_MzO52lw

..as a benchmark for world vs world because a Confusion build Mesmer downed a Warrior in 6 seconds, (watch between 0:54 and 1:00) gaining Confusion tick damage in bursts with back to back damage; 5479, 5900, 6743, 7165?

People rarely complain about PvE because it is god awful easy to manage. What most people complain about, or are concerned about is world vs world, where damage is extremely high.

Show me a non-Asuran Ranger who can do the burst in world vs world the video shows the Mesmer doing against ascended geared players, and I’ll eat my words.

Get this through your thick head, this is PvE not ZvZ burst test. No one cares about unbalanced fights with double confusion damage and players that stupid. I can kill another player in less than a second with a thief against ascended geared players. Your mesmer burst is a joke compared to my thief.

I guess you don’t know the history of Chopps, and those who stand behind him, and you don’t understand that when he makes a thread like this, he’s actually talking about all aspects of the game, and trying to tell people the Ranger needs no help. He has said multiple times that if you believe the Ranger needs help, you just don’t know how to play the Ranger.

It’s not shocking to discover you’re a Thief, who is also supporting the idea that the Ranger class does not need any help, most importantly in WvW. I had a feeling balance wasn’t what you were looking for, I just needed you to say it.

jkctmc.8754:

I guess you don’t know the history of Chopps, and those who stand behind him, and you don’t understand that when he makes a thread like this, he’s actually talking about all aspects of the game, and trying to tell people the Ranger needs no help. He has said multiple times that if you believe the Ranger needs help, you just don’t know how to play the Ranger.

What I see here is a burst test in pve.

It’s not shocking to discover you’re a Thief, who is also supporting the idea that the Ranger class does not need any help, most importantly in WvW. I had a feeling balance wasn’t what you were looking for, I just needed you to say it.

It’s not shocking to discover you think that narrowly. I have six characters and none of them I consider “main” ideology but seems like a lot of people comes from various mmos where you’re stuck to something like “main” and not from gw1 pvp where you’re mostly stuck to role because you can reroll in 1 minute and get fully equipped and levelled character. It’s even more shocking when I see your signature.

Would you be so kind and point out where I said that ranger didn’t need any help? 5 minutes of gameplay points out a vast amount of improvements it needs, burst capability not being on the top of that list.

haviz.1340:

jkctmc.8754:

I guess you don’t know the history of Chopps, and those who stand behind him, and you don’t understand that when he makes a thread like this, he’s actually talking about all aspects of the game, and trying to tell people the Ranger needs no help. He has said multiple times that if you believe the Ranger needs help, you just don’t know how to play the Ranger.

What I see here is a burst test in pve.

It’s not shocking to discover you’re a Thief, who is also supporting the idea that the Ranger class does not need any help, most importantly in WvW. I had a feeling balance wasn’t what you were looking for, I just needed you to say it.

It’s not shocking to discover you think that narrowly. I have six characters and none of them I consider “main” ideology but seems like a lot of people comes from various mmos where you’re stuck to something like “main” and not from gw1 pvp where you’re mostly stuck to role because you can reroll in 1 minute and get fully equipped and levelled character.

Would you be so kind and point out where I said that ranger didn’t need any help? 5 minutes of gameplay points out a vast amount of improvements it needs, burst capability not being on the top of that list.

You wouldn’t understand if you havn’t had to deal with Chopps in other threads. It’s his attitude in other threads are behind his reasoning for this thread.

Do you feel the Ranger has an equal level of burst in WvW, that a Warrior, Thief, or Mesmer has?

jkctmc.8754:

Do you feel the Ranger has an equal level of burst in WvW, that a Warrior, Thief, or Mesmer has?

No.