Anet, address this! Off-hand radius/range

Anet, address this! Off-hand radius/range

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

So, with with the introduction of specializations and new traits, the old off-hand training trait which granted reduced cooldown and increased range/radius is gone. Or rather, split up into different traits.

Which is fine enough, except that the radius/range portion of the skill is gone, none of the new traits offer increased radius/range, and none of our off-hand weapons had the traited range rolled into baseline. This despite showing warhorn #5 with a 750 radius as opposed to its normal 600 radius during the AMA livestream.

I know several rangers, myself included, ran off-hand training not only for the reduced cooldowns, but also because weapons like the dagger and torch benefited immensely from it. I’d also argue that an underused weapon like the off-hand axe needs the increased range baseline to be slightly more viable. So it’s not a matter of removing something that no one cared about, quite the opposite.

I’d like an actual response to something many ranger players clearly wanted you to adress. Is it an oversight, or did you simply feel rolling some of these numbers into baseline would be OP? How come mesmer pistol and necro focus had the range from traits rolled into baseline, while rangers are stuck with four weapons that are worse off than what they were before the patch?

(edited by Lazze.9870)

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Posted by: Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

+1 Range needs to be added back to the traits at minimum.

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Posted by: Klonko.8341

Klonko.8341

+1 off-hand was only way to have decent off-hand weapon.

Raining Rainbows lvl 80 ranger ~~~~~ SBI server

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Posted by: Eval.2371

Eval.2371

I dont know about dagger but axe def has the old trait into baseline. PoS is that nice far range and WD is the same deal.

[Cya] TC Roamer/Scout
I Play WvW to have fun. I don’t find it fun anymore. Therefore I don’t play.

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

I dont know about dagger but axe def has the old trait into baseline. PoS is that nice far range and WD is the same deal.

No, it doesn’t. Current off-hand axe is the same as the old untraited one.

WD was massive when traited with off-hand training compared to now, PoS was 1200 when traited.

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

There is no argument that could explain this ‘oversight’.
Skills like Whirling Defense, Stalker’s Strike, Bonfire and others lose a lot of viability without that trait and I see no reason for not making the increased range/radius baseline.

+1

Leman

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Posted by: Chokolata.1870

Chokolata.1870

Yes, the skills are much worse without the range. This is… just wow

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

the bonfire range nerf was too much. please bring it back to 240, same as the traps.

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Posted by: borya.2964

borya.2964

the bonfire range nerf was too much. please bring it back to 240, same as the traps.

Or how to transform the excitement into massive frustration.

Same with dagger, Stalker’s Stricke become kitten ridiculous. It’s even worst in a power build, the bleed damage from Crippling Talon is now nerfed to oblivion and the weapon have no damage, the survivability purpose, at least, of the dagger need to stay. Give us back the range and radius.

Coffin Rehearsal X – Bunker Roaming Ranger
Tchuu Tchuu Im A Train [TCHU] – Gandara
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChUmRHtHLgPckvtrPImxK3A

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

I just want the larger whirling defense back :(

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Posted by: Sube Dai.8496

Sube Dai.8496

This must be an oversight (even though it was pointed out weeks ago).

I mean they only buffed bonfire radius last balance patch!

John Snowman [GLTY]
Space Marine Z [GLTY]

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Posted by: Crapgame.6519

Crapgame.6519

Give take…

Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)

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Posted by: samanosuke asakura.6240

samanosuke asakura.6240

its a shame that some rangers don’t care about this.
3 offhand weps got nerfed people don’t seem to realize this
the worst thing i don’t mind that the range on the throwing being nerfed.
dagger4 ,bonfire, whirling defense, those are the skills that needed that little extra range increase.
to me its big nerf i don’t use the stupid pew pew meta and not having anet respond to this and previous topics.
also leaves disgusting taste in my mouth. it only confirms what i was thinking anet doesn’t really care what we say unless it is said everywhere on the web media. anyway now i am gone QQ in a corner from my room while eating ice cream.

greetings from a disappointed ranger

Honour and Pride and Devotion

Samanosuke Asakura Far shiver peaks

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

the only nerf that’s really really bad is the bonfire radius nerf. makes torch really underwhelming. it was a totally unnecessary change.

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Posted by: Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

This must be an oversight (even though it was pointed out weeks ago).

I mean they only buffed bonfire radius last balance patch!

IKR, without that buff, it was pretty lacklustre. Needs to come back.

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Posted by: VictoriousMonk.7150

VictoriousMonk.7150

I would also like the offhand training back, especially for whirling defense. Hopefully it was addressed in the bug forum, if it is a bug.

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Posted by: Razor.9872

Razor.9872

Yeah, I was really expecting these ranges to be made baseline. But now I’m just a sad Ranger

NSPride <3

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Posted by: roamzero.9486

roamzero.9486

900 range on Warhorn 1 is terrible

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Posted by: alvarez.3159

alvarez.3159

This needs more attention.

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Posted by: quagganzilla.6450

quagganzilla.6450

Couldn’t agree more, Anet needs to look into this for sure.

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

this nerf or oversight made absolutely no sense. were our offhands that OP lol? 2 of them aren’t even usable.

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Bump, bump, bump.

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Posted by: Toxsa.2701

Toxsa.2701

I seriously think the torch, off-hand, dagger range should all just be baseline because other classes have their radius increased as baseline too!

Ele’s staff skills, which is already extremely powerful on itself, has all their radius enhancement as baseline already.

Warrior’s Longbow F1 radius is SO HUGE, and hit up to 5 targets without any trait support.

There’s absolutely NO REASON to leave our off-hand weaker than all the other weapons.

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Posted by: Kyriel.8165

Kyriel.8165

+1

As a ranger main I have found it very disconcerting to have to try and readjust my game play to off-hand weapons with a reduced radius.

Sadly I can’t see an easy fix in the current trait descriptions but given that the name of the trait that buffs off-hand torch and dagger is "Ambidexterity it can include the radius modifier as well. I find the axe in general has been treated unkindly.

Really will you ever trait into beastmastery to get honed axes? It used to be an adept trait in Skirmishing and now its a “Grandmaster” in the BM line…. (why????) and there is no trait that I can find which addresses the off-hand axe.

But in summary – I want my over-sized whirling defense back please.

Look, if Robin Hood could shoot hawks out of the air with a longbow,
you can jolly well hit that little yellow circle that’s not even moving.
Kyriellis ~ level 80 Ranger

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Posted by: Samis.1750

Samis.1750

I know we got Ambidexterity, but the increased bonfire radius and offhand weapon range doesn’t seem to be anything that the player base screamed about in the past.

+1

Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Jaysin X.6740

Jaysin X.6740

+1

Old trait ranges should just be baseline now.

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

+1

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: Tusk.3846

Tusk.3846

+1

I enjoyed sword/axe off-hand w/extended range and radius. It was still tiny in comparison to other classes reflects skills, but at least useable.

No more triple trouble reflects. No more yank and spank mobs. Axe 4 and 5 need to be returned to the old “Off-Hand” training trait ASAP.

WPS!

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Posted by: Mono.7320

Mono.7320

I agree with OP +1

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Posted by: shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

Dagger is useless in a power build. 4 can’t be used as a mobility skill any longer, and it pretty much never hits a moving target… or any target for that matter. 5 doesn’t do any damage anymore now that bleeds were nerfed…

Axe took a heavy hit as well. 4 needs to be used from a short range. You can no longer pull someone back from far away. 5 doesn’t reflect anything from allies now that the radius is absolutely abysmal.

Fix this please Anet.

+1

I was a power ranger before it was cool.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Might aswell add that Clarion Bond, that they so eagerly fixed to match the description and the cooldown of the actual skill, has a radius of 750.

Yeah, that’s the radius of the old traited warhorn. There is something about Anet and inconsistency towards the ranger profession..

(edited by Lazze.9870)

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Posted by: anduriell.6280

anduriell.6280

Yep, offhand training got stripped off: another nerf.
After loosing power based on vitality and a lot of dmg modification we got this.

I hate to point it out but Anet is working hard to make the ranger the pariah of gw2. Like if the nerfs in traps and spirits that make that no ranger is using them right now would be enough….

I TOLD YOU SO
Inverse to Apple: SBeast is the worst yet.. jurl jurl
I’m all in for Team Irenio!

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Posted by: Mono.7320

Mono.7320

I always enjoyed dagger and torch offhand but with limited range it blows at current state. Anet PLEASE address this

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

WD was really really really good when traited because it was a giant hurricane around you, right now it’s a tiny little sphere that’s just disapointing to use.

All of our offhands minus warhorn 5 and dagger 4 are so disappointing to use right now, I really wish they’d make the increased range either baseline or roll it into Axe Mastery, Ambidexterity, and Windborne Notes for the respective weapons, either one would be fine. Hell, rolling it into Axe Mastery would actually make the trait good enough to warrant it being a GM.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: blitzkrieg.2451

blitzkrieg.2451

Yea this definitely needs to be re-implemented. Please anet!

+1 Durzlla’s post … Really just make it baseline.

Tanbin – Ranger / Thief / Ele
Maguuma

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

Hell, rolling it into Axe Mastery would actually make the trait good enough to warrant it being a GM.

… and restrict the choice of Beastmastery grandmaster to Honed Axes. Baseline is the only option that guarantees the general viability of these weapons.

Leman

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

Hell, rolling it into Axe Mastery would actually make the trait good enough to warrant it being a GM.

no it wouldn’t. virtually no iteration of honed axes would make it more useful than BW.

if they made whirling defense a 2s channel and evade castable while moving, axes would be much more appealing. and then maybe honed axes would be interesting.

the range nerf that hurts us the most is probably bonfire’s radius reduction.

(edited by mistsim.2748)

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Posted by: Oslaf Beinir.5842

Oslaf Beinir.5842

bump

I wantz back or riot

Get In The Van Yo[PR] -Play on Far Shiverpeaks/Gunner’s Hold/Vabbi

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Bumping until a dev shows up.

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Posted by: Kenny.3476

Kenny.3476

BUMP:
The Radius of the Torch is a joke compared to the trap.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Elorna.5329

Elorna.5329

They should just add the range onto the 3 new traits. Horn is ok without it, but the other offhands really suffer without this.

The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

BUMP:
The Radius of the Torch is a joke compared to the trap.

I’d say how bonfire should be smaller than the trap because it needs to be triggered and is a utility…. But the trap has a 15s CD compared to bonfires 25s….

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

They should just add the range onto the 3 new traits. Horn is ok without it, but the other offhands really suffer without this.

Baseline are what they should be.

There isn’t any reason why they shouldn’t.Two of our four off-hands rarely sees any play in PvP at all. Requiring a trait to improve an already underused axe will just further establish the axe as a gimmicky weapon for melee builds.

What they could do is improving Honed Axes to give +150 ferocity for each axe like the warrior counterpart. No idea why they didn’t do this in the first place, the trait competes with two really strong grandmasters, and new version is barely an improvement to the old one which was only a master trait.

(edited by Lazze.9870)

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Posted by: Elorna.5329

Elorna.5329

I wouldn’t mind baseline, but I’m somehow doubting that will happen. If they ever address this the best we can hope for is traits imo.

The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

I wouldn’t mind baseline, but I’m somehow doubting that will happen. If they ever address this the best we can hope for is traits imo.

I doubt that they will do anything at all, or even address this in the first place, because I don’t see a single dev being excited about the ranger or having any clear idea about what they want the ranger be like (I have a feeling this issue wouldn’t even be a thing if we had someone like Robert Gee working on the ranger). The point is that we shouldn’t just hope for trait changes, this is the kind of stuff that should’ve passed as baseline changes along with all the other baseline stuff they did.

They said during the livestream that they didn’t like traits increasing the range of skills and weapons (I don’t think these kinds of traits exist anymore, not even as a part of new merged traits), and our off-hands easily qualify as fair weapons to give such a buff. Mesmers as an example was given a new pistol trait and had the old range increase portion of it rolled in as baseline. Necromancer’s focus was given the same treatment.

It’s like they don’t even ackowledge that range/radius increase was half the reason people picked the old off-hand trait in the first place. I’m fairly happy with most of the changes they did to the ranger, but it feels like they at some point just decided to call it a day without taking a second look at some of the underperforming aspects of the class, and the lack of devs getting involved on the ranger subforum compared to certain other classes doesn’t exactly change my view on this.

The fact that Clarion Bond’s version of Call of the Wild has a 750 radius compared to the 600 radius of the actual weapon skill just further pushes my impression of Anet being rather sloppy about certain ranger changes. It kinda makes it look like the off-hands were supposed to have the range/radius rolled into baseline at some point, and then they just forgot all about it.

(edited by Lazze.9870)

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Posted by: Elorna.5329

Elorna.5329

Well you just kind of made a long explanation of what I was trying to convey with the “if they ever address this” comment. There just aren’t any ranger players in the skill/trait team. The only ranger player I’m still sure about in Anet’s staff at all is Gaile Gray, but she has nothing to do with skill balancing.

EDIT:
I found it pretty hilarious during that long stream a few months back how Peters thought Most Dangerous Game was grandmaster worthy and basically knee-jerk “balanced” it there on the spot. I think that’s a pretty good indicator of ranger love there.

The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.

(edited by Elorna.5329)

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Well you just kind of made a long explanation of what I was trying to convey with the “if they ever address this” comment.

Well, yeah. My comment was bascially me saying why I don’t think we’ll see this kind of stuff added to the traits (because they apparently don’t want these kind of traits). The rest of it is just my general thoughts and impressions, not specificially directed towards you.

And yeah, the MDG thing is hilarious. Wonder how long it would take for them to realize that no one runs this trait.

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

The fact that Clarion Bond’s version of Call of the Wild has a 750 radius compared to the 600 radius of the actual weapon skill just further pushes my impression of Anet being rather sloppy about certain ranger changes

Where do you people see this? I had to check in-game after reading this and tooltips list 600 range. Images traited and untraited for Windborne Notes out of curiosity.

Attachments:

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

The fact that Clarion Bond’s version of Call of the Wild has a 750 radius compared to the 600 radius of the actual weapon skill just further pushes my impression of Anet being rather sloppy about certain ranger changes

Where do you people see this? I had to check in-game after reading this and tooltips list 600 range. Images traited and untraited for Windborne Notes out of curiosity.

They must have changed it during one of the later updates, it was 750 after the specialization patch. Guess that’s the nail in the coffin regarding giving any of our weapons an increased range.

Regardless, it doesn’t change the fact that they had this in mind when they were working on the changes.
Here is a screen from the AMA livestream:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-beastmasters-bond.jpg

(edited by Lazze.9870)

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

bug /15 characters