Any consideration for the ranger class?
I never said ranger was better at insert thing here than class insert class here, which people here seem to be under the impression of. I’ve never claimed that ranger was top tier, and have repeatedly been saying rangers need help here on the forum, so I don’t seem to understand where people are getting the impression that I think Ranger is fine.
I also openly admit I’m not the best PvP guy, or WvW guy… but I do tend to hold my own when I go in and play in those areas, and I don’t feel like I’m sankittenging my team by being a ranger. Maybe I just don’t operate at the levels/tiers you all do, but I certainly try in the levels/tiers I am in, and I tend to have moderate success.I’ll try to get better in those areas and advance before I go speaking about rangers in the future.
!) players don’t like dev to be on two boat at the same time, they feel betrayed and have not enough backing into their said class D=.
2) Their never happy with what they have, and balance it a hard thing as every1 skill set in on a different level and their perception of balance is never correct. When they get to go gc they will complain that they die so quick and can’t burst and outlast the fight, when they got sustain dps and survivability they complain they don’t have burst to faceroll some class. (So when you read carefully, you will see you have been judge by some players biased perception.)
3) Balance should be determined when played at competative level and when taken 2v2 or 3v3 into account of 1v1 , no class should have bigger upper hand. So if your said class have a spec that can win another spec on the so hate class, it not the hate class that is op but you that didn’t want to utilize that build and whining about have you said spec wanting to be powerful. If a 1v1 situation , if both side have a chance of taking down your opponent and no one have a greater gap(like being taken down within sec and you hitting your opponent and having his hp not spent at all) then that is balance.
BM and Trap ranger are better than thief in higher rank pvp right now, gc thief don’t offer much and come in handy in a niche situation. They may be annoying to kill but with your sustain with good survivability you will take down a thief fairly easily. A gc thief trade their survivability for burst and even if they want to spec for survivability there not many viable build that make a survival thief viable, so as every1 they tend to flock to the best spec atm, gc burst.
The OP quote referred to 26k attacks and 19k damage in 5 seconds and said the ranger couldn’t do anything like that. So I decided to throw out the results of my solo Blinding Slash tests which were originally done in response to this other thread to find out how much a pet could potentially hit for with might and vuln (in a dungeon).
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/How-much-can-a-glass-canon-pet-crit-for
Unfortunately it came across as saying something positive about the Ranger profession in direct comparison to another profession which always provokes hostility. That was not my intent.
A non gc pet already hit gc for 4-5k each hit(non crit), how much hp do most gc thief or mesmer have (as both of this class always get targeted as their viable spec are mostly gc) 13-15k for a thief and around 18k for a mesmer. Mesmer mostly are weak to condition , if you can outlast them by using your evades and constantly applying condition most mesmer will die. For a thief 3 time that your pet hit them, they would go down not considering crit. If they go into stealth using shadow refuge, that is your biggest chance to win, use the pet that have an aoe fear and force them out of shadow refuge, after that its a piece of cake as the thief now have no heals , wasted their longest invi, can’t reset the fight, 4 sec of reveal debuff.
Edit: make me wonder, if you want a burst class, i don’t remember ever reading ranger being promoted as 1, while thief are.
First of, a dev can’t keep a blind eye to all other professions just because he likes the rangers. Second, he is right. The thief is in a good place right now
Its a class where all the best specs are based on unavoidable dmg in a game based on active defense.
THAT’S BAD DESIGN.
They said out of the get-go that they were going to avoid that because of latancy and balance issues, they were pointedly calling it a thief instead of assassin to better illustrate the goal…
It was a good goal too, I don’t know why they didn’t stick with it, just making stealth a short mobility/CC/condi deal instead of just raw dps and resetting fights.
(edited by garethh.3518)
First of, a dev can’t keep a blind eye to all other professions just because he likes the rangers. Second, he is right. The thief is in a good place right now
Its a class where all the best specs are based on unavoidable dmg in a game based on active defense.
THAT’S BAD DESIGN.They said out of the get-go that they were going to avoid that because of latancy and balance issues, they were pointedly calling it a thief instead of assassin to better illustrate the goal…
It was a good goal too, I don’t know why they didn’t stick with it, just making stealth a short mobility/CC/condi deal instead of just raw dps and resetting fights.
Aside from venom, what is unavoidable about the thief?
All I got out of it was…
‘Rangers can use half a dozen skills and use twitchy reflexes (read: Get lucky getting an evade off against skills with no cast time) to counter a thief’s pressing of 1-2-3 & profit so they’re fine’
And that somehow makes ranger’s OK?
I think Marilyn Manson said it best when he sang “you can’t see the forest for the trees, you can’t smell your own **** on your knees”
You play it a certain way and so it is designed to be played that way. You’re so blinded that it works for you and how you play that you don’t see just how bad it really is to most others. Other classes are better simply because they are designed in such a way to allow them to be played with a greater degree of flexibility in play style.
The short bow comparison brings up a good point. We are the ranger class. Our performance with bow (both short and long) should out perform the other classes. Instead, they out perform us. It’s not just the thief with the short bow but also the warrior with the long bow.
What do you mostly see used? The kittening great sword! A ranger using a great sword? What are you smoking?
Not only that, but it is basically the strongest weapon we can use. It out performs the long bow.
Redo the sword’s auto attack. Right now what makes the gs so good is the skills that it provides. The auto attack cycles through every 1.75 seconds and the third attack provides a 1 second evade which means that you can not be hit for a second with just .75 seconds between while auto attacking. Yet what does the sword get? The second attack cripples and the third makes us leap to the target. Umm, if they are being crippled why would I need a gap closer? Not only that but the third attack for the sword takes the same amount of time to do as the third attack for the gs! However, instead of getting an evade, we get rooted? Absolute fail. Serpents Strike is buggy and you can end up rolling away instead of toward. You can even roll yourself off of a ledge if you don’t pay attention. As for Hornets Sting, yet another leap toward the enemy and cripple with Monarch’s Leap.
The Pounce skill should be an evade while we perform the action.
Serpent’s Strike should swap spots with Hornet’s Sting as the #2 skill and should be the skill with the 8 second CD. Hornet’s Sting should simply be replaced by Monarch’s Leap but instead of crippling, it should cause confusion.
As for the Long Bow. If Long Range Shot is suppose to do more damage at greater ranges, then it should cause cripple. So, you know, we can keep them at range. Also, every other weapon provides either a bleed, poison or burn except the bow. With the main attack causing cripple, make barrage flaming arrows that create a fire field and causes burning. Not too much to ask considering all the burning that the warrior gets with the bow.
Ranger toolbox isn’t just utilities, folks, it’s your 1-5. And between LR and QZ, there’s a TON of utility power in just those two alone, leaving a third open for whatever you feel you may need in the fight and to better define your play style. Shortbow is full of utility and also does really good sustained DPS, so I stand by my statement of rangers having an expansive tool box.
As for Ranger DPS not matching thief burst… yeah, that’s pretty obvious – I don’t think I’m rocking some boat by saying that. I accept that trade-off of lacking burst potential for having a better toolbox of things I can do to survive while outputting consistent DPS. I can see the longbow as maybe being a bit spiky, but nowhere near what a D/D can do. Maybe a trap ranger can get a bit bursty if they hit all 3 traps at once on a glass cannon, but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.You can’t really avoid a ranger’s sustained damage, but you can mitigate nearly all of a thief’s burst with really fast reaction and smart play.
@Misterdevious
I once got my jaguar to hit a warrior using a rifle for a super awesome crit around 12k on a single attack when all roided up from signet and shout, and getting a lucky crit. There’s potential, but it involves luck I can’t depend on, whereas a D/D thief can depend on his skill.Also, despite my best efforts, I could not write a post that didn’t come across as defensive lol. I’m still a ranger through and through
I’m more upset that nobody said anything whatsoever about my “swooping” into the thread… I thought that was golden.
That’s all fine and dandy with PvP. I personally don’t care what so ever about PvP, Ranger is my preferred class yet we are a waste of space in PvE. Sustain and survive does nothing for dungeon groups. I’ve lately been playing on my warrior and my constant 18-22k Hundred blades that I rarely have to interrupt to evade are way beyond anything my ranger can do. Pets still die far too easily in dungeons, even ranged pets. You can talk about pet management but it’s hard enough to react to evading things and pressing F3 doesn’t always make your pet actually evade it, they very often instead decide to take a path straight through the danger zone and die anyway. Pets are currently useless in any type of group play and since they do a massive portion of the ranger damage even without beast traits we are crippled.
I love my ranger, but I feel guilty in groups with my guild, I can run dungeons with the same group setup except me swapping from ranger to warrior and I can see a massive difference in both group help and straight up damage, dungeons go so much faster with a warrior in the 5th spot instead of a ranger.
Aside from venom, what is unavoidable about the thief?
?
Am i missing something?
Steal and stealth openers???
Those two things the most relevant thief specs spec around atm.
A good thief can (and will) reset the fight every time they start to lose … until they kill you or get bored/tired/frustrated with trying to kill you.
I hope you don’t mind terrible…but this is going to be my new forums sig. Thanks! edit* [I had to reword it due to size restrictions =(.]
(edited by ski.4927)
I never said ranger was better at insert thing here than class insert class here, which people here seem to be under the impression of. I’ve never claimed that ranger was top tier, and have repeatedly been saying rangers need help here on the forum, so I don’t seem to understand where people are getting the impression that I think Ranger is fine.
I also openly admit I’m not the best PvP guy, or WvW guy… but I do tend to hold my own when I go in and play in those areas, and I don’t feel like I’m sankittenging my team by being a ranger. Maybe I just don’t operate at the levels/tiers you all do, but I certainly try in the levels/tiers I am in, and I tend to have moderate success.I’ll try to get better in those areas and advance before I go speaking about rangers in the future.
!) players don’t like dev to be on two boat at the same time, they feel betrayed and have not enough backing into their said class D=.
.
the audacity that a dev would play more than one class for personal and balance play! like opening their view of the game is going to hurt the built of camps of thought by trying to experience what other players are having for themselves!
i know the point your making, but honestly being entrenched in a train of thought and camp-ism is a crappy way of dealing with most issues.
I do not really care about balance changes , what I am mostly hoping for are bug fixes and quality of life improvements . And Robert already hinted at those , so I am optimistic
I can only imagine the tears of joy that would stain the cheeks of the Ranger community if they were to make spirits viable. Even though I have (temporarily?) retired Turkish, I’ve got my fingers crossed for Rangers.
Honestly, I’m somewhat surprised from looking at cause-and-effect that Jon Peters is allowed to still even talk about Rangers while Robert Hrouda isn’t allowed to give us hints. The former seems to incite anger while the latter is begged for
Those of you giving Robert so much flak need to work on your people skills. You’re going to chase away the one dev that actually gives you the time of day. The man takes time out of his schedule to go that extra mile that few (if any) of his coworkers seem to be doing and you repay him with your malice, contempt, etc. It’s shameful.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
(edited by Moderator)
Saw this coming.
Hello Robert,
It is nothing personal, although a lot if not the majority of the ranger comunity is frustrated. Their have been issues that were reported before release that have not been fixed. The gaming community knows that the ranger is is in desperate need of help and yet we really have had nothing positive done for us. Some minor gs improvements, and nerfs to qz. Animation normalization that hurts the dps etc. And yet thief’s are getting a buff https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Looks-like-theifs-getting-a-buff-in-WvW/first#post1856191
It is time for the team to stop what their doing and put some real work into the ranger class. Pets are not going to cut it unfortunately just due to the poor ai and a lack of control. I hope to see you back here, it is appreciate although more so I hope to see some positive and major improvements to the ranger class, anet has left us in the fecal matter for long enough. Take care, have a great weekend Robert.
Wow … I’m aggravated to see that, Bailey.
The immediate thought that pops in my head is:
“Why does the thief nerf get rolled back the patch immediately after the path it was implemented but the Ranger’s over-nerf hasn’t been patched since BWE#3 ?!”
Quite peeved … though maybe it will be offset by something else in the patch notes.
I’m really starting to see Jon Peters as the harbinger of bad news for Rangers. Now those thieves can C&D off my pet and backstab me every 3s instead of 4s.
Honestly, I’m really hoping Ranger finally gets something to make people love having it in a group rather than it simply being “another body” … especially in WvW.
My Mesmer can completely turn the tide of a fight using Feedback + traited Temporal Curtain. That provides 11 seconds (more w/ traits) of the enemy not being able to shoot my allies with projectiles … in fact, reflecting their projectiles at themselves. This is huge.
Add in portals, mass invis/veil, AOE boon/condition removal (null field), Time Warp, etc. and a single player can have an immense impact on an enormous number of players. If it’s a glamour build, good lord.
My Ranger? Muddy terrain and traps with their short ranges (traps are 600 traited, else at your feet). Aside from that, it’s just piercing shots and/or plinking a single target at a time. Can’t really even provide much support for the team aside from a few token pet shouts and healing spring.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
(edited by Sebrent.3625)
For an idea of what I’m talking about … check out this video … see what is asked for and quite useful?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YYtKITq9zIs#!
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Hello Robert,
It is nothing personal, although a lot if not the majority of the ranger comunity is frustrated.
Every forum acts frustrated, its nothing special or unexpected, if anything it seems a bit nicer around here.
(edited by garethh.3518)
Hello Robert,
It is nothing personal, although a lot if not the majority of the ranger comunity is frustrated.Every forum acts frustrated, its nothing special or unexpected, if anything it seems a bit nicer around here.
That’s because everybody left.
At this point there are three types of people who cling to the Ranger, people who play sPvP where the ranger is mostly OK, people who are into the ranger for the flavour…. they would keep playing the ranger no matter what and believe everything is fine, and people who have crazy skills and would be successful no matter the class they play.
The for WvW and end game PvE the ranger has been terrible for so long that I would wager most people have either moved on or levelled another character.
By terrible I mean the following, if you have an L80 ranger and any other L80 character, there is no reason why you take the ranger if you want to bring something to the team and give them any kind of advantage. You CAN complete any and all of that content with the ranger, but you’re not contributing as much as you would with essentially any other class (assuming constant playskill). The only reason to bring a ranger is if you just really like your ranger.
Well… I was one of the players that switched to thief when this “animation fix” for QZ kicked in, but I still played my ranger for PVE stuff & dungeons, never felt too satisfied though. After roaming about 5 months with my thief, I somehow got quite bored of it last week, so I wanted to give the ranger one more shot.
Long story short: I took a look at the forum and tried the BM regen build, and I gotta say I have a blast in WvW, never thought I’d have that much fun roaming with my ranger, its hilarious how durable this build is. You can rather easily fight against 2 players at one time, maybe even 3 when they’re bad and sword gives good mobility and evasion to even escape from fights. I just love these “wow – moments” in the eyes of the enemy, when they realize they’re about to loose 2on1 against a RANGER, after chasing you and then desperately try to run away.
Too many people think ranger are free lootbags, I as a main thief player, now know they definitely aren’t – you just need the correct build. Though I also gotta say that as a ranger, you will have more problems fighting thieves than any other class.
(edited by laquito.5269)
I don’t understand people commenting that the Ranger deals “sustained damage”? I was always under the impression, that the general rule to all profession is; direct damage is meant for burst damage, and condition damage is meant for sustained damage. The fact that I don’t feel like I can deal any real burst damage, with my longbow/greatsword Ranger, is exactly why I don’t enjoy playing Ranger in PvP. It doesn’t feel like it’s intended, it feels like my weapons are broken.
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
Aye laquito. I see plenty of people nowadays that used to play thieves (Killingfrenzy, Teldec, etc.) and ask them “Hey, why aren’t you on your thief”. Every time, the reply has been, “It’s too easy. I got bored”.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
I don’t understand people commenting that the Ranger deals “sustained damage”? I was always under the impression, that the general rule to all profession is; direct damage is meant for burst damage, and condition damage is meant for sustained damage. The fact that I don’t feel like I can deal any real burst damage, with my longbow/greatsword Ranger, is exactly why I don’t enjoy playing Ranger in PvP. It doesn’t feel like it’s intended, it feels like my weapons are broken.
The “sustained” damage thing is a copout. Every class deals sustained damage, this is what happens when other classes dont pop all their cooldowns in the first five seconds of a fight, or when pretty much any class that isnt specced 100% for support simply auto attacks the target with their #1 skill.
Rangers do sustained damage because EVERYONE DOES SUSTAINED DAMAGE.
I don’t understand people commenting that the Ranger deals “sustained damage”? I was always under the impression, that the general rule to all profession is; direct damage is meant for burst damage, and condition damage is meant for sustained damage. The fact that I don’t feel like I can deal any real burst damage, with my longbow/greatsword Ranger, is exactly why I don’t enjoy playing Ranger in PvP. It doesn’t feel like it’s intended, it feels like my weapons are broken.
The “sustained” damage thing is a copout. Every class deals sustained damage, this is what happens when other classes dont pop all their cooldowns in the first five seconds of a fight, or when pretty much any class that isnt specced 100% for support simply auto attacks the target with their #1 skill.
Rangers do sustained damage because EVERYONE DOES SUSTAINED DAMAGE.
I don’t really agree with that. Direct damage is further affected by critical chance, and condition damage is further affected by condition duration. One deals a large percentage of damage over a short duration, the other a large percentage of damage over a longer duration. The benefit of direct damage is that it gets your opponent from 100% to 0% in a shorter time, but at the cost of you having to consistently hit. The benefit of condition damage is that, while it takes a bit longer to get your opponent from 100% to 0%, you don’t need to hit as consistently, because the damage is constantly on your opponent. That’s how I see it.
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
Sustained damage != condition damage. You’re conflating two things that sometimes overlap. Sustained damage can be consistent direct damage (it often is).
Aye laquito. I see plenty of people nowadays that used to play thieves (Killingfrenzy, Teldec, etc.) and ask them “Hey, why aren’t you on your thief”. Every time, the reply has been, “It’s too easy. I got bored”.
Hehe I get what you’re trying to say, but let me elaborate on that: While I definitely agree that thieves are easier to play in WvW to be “successful” (killing players) than any other class, it’s just as difficult or maybe even harder to become a good thief. Many thieves seem to get stuck on the average player level, being one trick pony’s.
I personally think I am a very good thief, because thats my intention, no matter what class I play, but there really are like 80% trash thieves, who shouldn’t be a problem for a good player. I just feel a bit bad for rangers, because they have the least useful abilities and tools for counterplaying thieves thus making it a lot more difficult to play against them. It takes a good ranger to counter an average thief, but thats a problem of class design, some classes just seem to have the perfect counterclass. For Ranger its Thief and for Thief its Guardian…
Nevertheless I realized that rangers can also be a quite good roaming class and I’ll probably stick with my ranger a bit longer, because it is just too much fun humilating people, who think rangers are free badges. I’d say this is probably one of the best duelling / 1onX builds there is, maybe not as powerful as D/D ele’s, but definitely as efficient.
A melee warrior being kited is not maintaining sustained damage. Same for anyone whose damage is being mitigated. This does include bow/axe-only rangers when they face someone with good ant-projectile skills.
The ranger is a step ahead of others when it comes to sustained damage because they can LOS and even move out of range of any weapons while maintaining damage via their pet. This is why I think Rangers will be in a much better place once our pets hit more reliably because this strength is still plagued by insufficient AI.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
A melee warrior being kited is not maintaining sustained damage. Same for anyone whose damage is being mitigated. This does include bow/axe-only rangers when they face someone with good ant-projectile skills.
If the issue is endgame PvE and WvW, players who don’t bring both a ranged and a mele-ish option are probably better off not contributing to a discussion of how useful a class can be. Can’t really speak to sPvP.
@Tyops: take a look at other classes’ subforums. I think you’d be surprised by how many Warriors, Thieves, etc. run builds with no ranged weapons. Including in WvW and dungeons. Some of these builds are extremely effective and known as good builds for their respective areas.
Also, Mesmers and elementalists can get away with taking only ranged weapons due to the fact that they have non-projectile ranged attacks (Mesmer Greatsword and Elementalist Scepter).
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
@Tyops: take a look at other classes’ subforums. I think you’d be surprised by how many Warriors, Thieves, etc. run builds with no ranged weapons. Including in WvW and dungeons. Some of these builds are extremely effective and known as good builds for their respective areas.
Also, Mesmers and elementalists can get away with taking only ranged weapons due to the fact that they have non-projectile ranged attacks (Mesmer Greatsword and Elementalist Scepter).
I agree with you there, but if these builds are good its because they have ways of not being mitigated as described in the post above. If they were, they wouldnt be good builds. It’s a little circular but it doesnt change the core point I’m trying to make, there’s no point in talking about rangers as a good “sustained damage” class because this is something that is pretty trivial to achieve for pretty much every class.
I don’t understand people commenting that the Ranger deals “sustained damage”? I was always under the impression, that the general rule to all profession is; direct damage is meant for burst damage, and condition damage is meant for sustained damage.
Sustained includes Condition damage, but is not limited to it. For example; Sustained and Burst damage exists in FPSs, even though those games may not even have status effects at all.
But, if the whole Sustained vs. Burst dynamic exists in this game, I have a hard time seeing it. Classically characters who specialize in sustained damage are very good at maintaining forward momentum because their output creates consistency through energy efficiency and/or creates consistency through damaging in a way that circumvents avoidance and/or they’re sturdy enough to survive punishment to dish damage out reliably.
But there isn’t any system of energy for Rangers to be efficient at, while a pet can circumvent some ways people can avoid damage being the only un-removeable DoT in the game doesn’t count for much if it rarely ever hits, in terms of survivability I’ve never seen much of a tempo of pushing forward and falling back so what good is there in maintaining solid forward momentum if burst characters aren’t doing much in the way of falling back?
(edited by Vox Hollow.2736)
Well, a common way to get around this is to use the warrior trait, Mobile Strikes.
However, just because someone breaks the first chill, cripple, immobilize with a movement skill doesn’t mean they can continue to do so AND catch you in melee range continously. Against some Ranger builds, the warrior could. Against others, such as the chill build, the warrior would be highly frustrated. More so since their movement skills would be recharging slower too.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Sustained damage != condition damage. You’re conflating two things that sometimes overlap. Sustained damage can be consistent direct damage (it often is).
Sustained includes Condition damage, but is not limited to it. For example; Sustained and Burst damage exists in FPSs, even though those games may not even have status effects at all.
But, if the whole Sustained vs. Burst dynamic exists in this game, I have a hard time seeing it. Classically characters who specialize in sustained damage are very good at maintaining forward momentum because their output creates consistency through energy efficiency and/or creates consistency through damaging in a way that circumvents avoidance and/or they’re sturdy enough to survive punishment to dish damage out reliably.
But there isn’t any system of energy for Rangers to be efficient at, while a pet can circumvent some ways people can avoid damage being the only un-removeable DoT in the game doesn’t count for much if it rarely ever hits, in terms of survivability I’ve never seen much of a tempo of pushing forward and falling back so what good is there in maintaining solid forward momentum if burst characters aren’t doing much in the way of falling back?
I understand the literal term of sustained damage. But the term also has to have some point of value within a game system aspect. And the way I see it, sustained direct damage has none. I mean, what value does sustained direct damage have, if condition damage does a better job of sustaining damage? I believe the very reason that bleeding was once reduced to having a maximum of 25 stacks, was to prevent it from becoming burst damage. And in the same aspect, sustained direct damage would probably be reduced, if it became better at sustaining damage then condition damage. So saying that the Ranger deals sustained direct damage, isn’t really saying anything good. Because in order to maintain balance between the two damage types, sustained direct damage will never be good.
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
My ranger might just get forgotten soon. I made a Hammer/GS warrior and boy is this fun. Not only can I hit like a truck and have great AoE crowd control with the hammer I have good mobility with the GS and a much better pool of HP’s and toughness then the ranger. Oh did I mention I don’t have to worry about a Pet liability walking around getting my kitten run down b/c some thief stays in stealth by hitting the pet and backstabbing me all day while all my defensive skills are on CD.
With the ranger in its current state a choice of a warrior, mesmer, or ele are stupid simple to play and stay alive. Ranger requires too much effort right now. I’ll keep trying him every now and then but I think he is getting retired until he gets close to on par with any other class. By doing this I don’t have to hope we get a fix in order to have fun. I took the having fun into my own hands and gave up on clinging to some hopeful fix that never seems to happen. I wasted 8 months waiting on a fix and disappointed with each patch. I dare you to try another class and just see how easy it is for other classes to be fun compared to the frustration of the current ranger state.
In my heart ranger will always be my favorite class. Good luck rangers!!!!!
Perfect Dark [PD] – Yaks Bend
I cant wait to see the next patch . I am looking forward to it .
Ahhh. Apologies.
I cant wait to see the next patch . I am looking forward to it .
Same. Mixed feelings of excitement and worry.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Ranger toolbox isn’t just utilities, folks, it’s your 1-5. And between LR and QZ, there’s a TON of utility power in just those two alone, leaving a third open for whatever you feel you may need in the fight and to better define your play style. Shortbow is full of utility and also does really good sustained DPS, so I stand by my statement of rangers having an expansive tool box.
the “LR and QZ + 1 extra skill” statement sadly illustrates just how rubbish many ranger skills are compared to a select few at the moment. Sadly, I just realised most of the time I use both LR and QZ as well… Granted I often go traps too though. I mean if 2 out of 3 utility skills are pretty much no brainers how much diversity do rangers really have at the moment?
I cant wait to see the next patch . I am looking forward to it .
Same. Mixed feelings of excitement and worry.
It will be aquaman patch all over again.
I’m missing the logic of the whole sustained damage argument. Even if we somehow avail ourselves of the Robert Hrouda method of optimizing pets for every WvW scenario, there are many other mitigating factors to us “sustaining” damage. How much “sustained” damage do you put out as a Ranger in Keep wall defense? With your pet dead? With folks dodging arrows? The list of mitigations is actually quite large.
Well I don’t care about this whole ranger – thief comparison. Thief dmg isn’t the problem but the stealth time of certain skills and that it wont autoreselect him.
However concerning utility skills: This game has only 3 utility slots. There ofcourse is also 1-5, the heal, the elite but basically the real free to chose slots are those 3. And even though there are only those 3 and you might think you will have a hard time deciding what to take it is totally no problem for me when playing ranger. I take the 3 least crappy skills and if I don’t play a condi trap build there aren’t even more than those 3. Utilities for ranger are horrible we even fill one of those 3 slots with a passive 25% speedbuff because there really isn’t anything better. This is a result of bad/no balancing and makes the gameplay and build options boring. They could be so much more fun but this is why many friends of mine stopped playing the game.
You know I was thinking the other day, warriors and leg specialist should be removed from the whole arrow cart thing. But then started thinking. Well why not give that utility to rangers and their longbow? At least then 5 is on a cooldown long enough so you can just spam it. We also have to cast the initial channel. It just makes more sense to me. I mean several classes have a utility that can manage many people in a zerg like static fields and line of wardings.
I strongly believe barrage could use the immobilize factor like a warrior on a cart with leg specialist. It just makes sense to me. Can’t be any more OP than an elementalists static field or a guardians line of warding.
If rangers get real utility skills I’m going to cry tears of joy… That being said I’m not holding my breathe especially based on the last 2 times we were getting “utility skill buffs”.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Maybe a trap ranger can get a bit bursty if they hit all 3 traps at once on a glass cannon, but Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.
Since you are the dungeon go to guy how is there so little content that rewards the “sustain and survive” play style over the burst? While burst remains the method of choice amount the guild wars 2 community the Ranger and other non bursty profession will have the stigmata of being lesser options.
I find my ranger to be really useful in large wvwvw fights, especially when it comes to assaulting towers/keeps/stonemist.
So many loot bags…
Mains — Mathias of the Wood [Ranger]; Collaborator Bluatt [Engineer]
Alts — Necromancer, Warrior, Elementalist
I find my ranger to be really useful in large wvwvw fights, especially when it comes to assaulting towers/keeps/stonemist.
So many loot bags…
the only thing useful rangers can do in large fights is barrage which can be an area denial ability, which has a 25 sec cd, pets are horrible in large fights, and in terms of contributing to the over all goal in forcing the foes out/away rangers are still very poor since we got very poor aoe capability at 1,200+ hell all we got for good aoe is traps and barrage, only other thing we can do is run spirit buffs and stay near the back/ mid so they don’t get wiped out. I have yet to find anything more rangers can do in large scale fights that can actually benefit our own server’s goals…. small scale is a lot better for us but we don’t get bags from small scale activities in wvw…
and yes all you need to do is drop barrage on a large group and you can get 10+ bags from that one ability but in aspect of how much you do it isn’t a lot compared to all the other people firing off more spammable aoes on the opposing forces
I once got my jaguar to hit a warrior using a rifle for a super awesome crit around 12k on a single attack when all roided up from signet and shout
People can call me what ever they like, but these comments bug me. Not really from you. But from everyone. I pretty much refuse to let my pet do MORE damage than myself -_-. Mind you I will admit this puts me at a disadvantage in WvWvW since SB/LB rangers bring so little to the field but yea.
~Tarnished Coast since the beginning
I find my ranger to be really useful in large wvwvw fights, especially when it comes to assaulting towers/keeps/stonemist.
So many loot bags…
the only thing useful rangers can do in large fights is barrage which can be an area denial ability, which has a 25 sec cd, pets are horrible in large fights, and in terms of contributing to the over all goal in forcing the foes out/away rangers are still very poor since we got very poor aoe capability at 1,200+ hell all we got for good aoe is traps and barrage, only other thing we can do is run spirit buffs and stay near the back/ mid so they don’t get wiped out. I have yet to find anything more rangers can do in large scale fights that can actually benefit our own server’s goals…. small scale is a lot better for us but we don’t get bags from small scale activities in wvw…
and yes all you need to do is drop barrage on a large group and you can get 10+ bags from that one ability but in aspect of how much you do it isn’t a lot compared to all the other people firing off more spammable aoes on the opposing forces
Never ever use barrage on organized zergs, never, you will be killed by retaliation.
Numbers of one Barrage:
12 Waves x 5 targets x 300 retaliation = 18000 damage to yourselves (if you have bad luck)
The only ranged ae ranger have is not usable against zergs in WvWvW, exept you do it in midfight when the “rush” is over and the retaliation buffs run out.
PS:
24 sec cd traited, 30 sec without.
(edited by Longtomsilver.8031)
Rangers in PvE are great. Until I reached lvl 80, I died just once or twice while fighting for a Skill Point and I still dare to battle with a Champion alone (if he is also alone, without helpers). Takes a lot of time, of course, but still a win situation.
In WvW the ranger is a class for surviving. Not attacking, move the battle forward. Just for survive. I get bags, but just because of my zerg is in front of me and I use barrage (barrage deals little damage on many people, so perfect for bag claiming.)
It’s boring. Of course I have the option to get in the middle of the battle, enjoying the fight, but that means instant death. When we have to defend some walls, that’s a little bit better, but only if the battle is at the foot of the walls.
On the last occasion I encountered with a thief (1v1). Literally, all of my skills were on cool down. He went invisible, my pet went useless (as always in WvW). In 4 (!) seconds time I was dead. He was on full health.
Yeah, I hope you’ll buff thieves more as you claimed, thus give me reason to go for an other MMO and advance there slowly. I love this game, but just in PvE. It took me half a year to reach 75% world completion, so I barely have time to play. And that’s why I won’t start an other class, because it would take an other two month to get lvl 80. And those two months could be spent elsewhere also.
Don’t get me wrong, I love those fights which are really fights. I mean when we both get damage from each other, we are struggling for our life, get healed in the last second and after a half minute one of us will die. If the fight was good, I say s/he deserves my wvw coin. That’s fun.
But after a half year of training, getting gears, calculating stats on my own, collecting and choosing the best pet, I’m not even able to damage an opponent… You must be kidding.
If you guys want to do constant damage then you better learn to utilize your pets because no matter what combination of weapons you use your pet will do more dps regardless especially if spec in to BM.
I know it sucks sometimes especially when your pet is mauled in 3 seconds and you lose your main DPS output but that is just the way the devs intended the class to be focused around.
In all honesty if the devs would give pets a permanent speed boost so players can’t outrun them I’ll be happy. I would also like the ability to be able to pull thieves out of stealth whether it be a special skill or pet skill.
I’m not saying be able to pull them out of stealth every single time but at least give us an opportunity every now and then. Maybe a new utility or trap skill that throws white powder on the ground and if the thief hits it then it shows where he is for 3 seconds.
Even better maybe add white powder to one of our bow attacks or sword attacks that puts it on a thief and if he has the debuff on him when he stealth’s we can see him for 3 seconds.
I’m just throwing out a few idea’s which I’m probably sure has already been thought of but hey it can’t hurt.