Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

Jin and Jay (J. Roh) go at it 1 on 1, discussing their thoughts on the current state of the Ranger Affairs.

Hope to see you next week!

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Normal people, extraordinary conversations
Guild Wars 2 Ranger podcast: Arrow To The Knee – E06

ATTK-POD1-2013-04-25

Hello fellow Rangers!
The latest episode from ATTK is out, we had a lot of fun recording it live for the 1st time ever, thought we recorded 2h worth of it… I guess that’s what you get when you put 3 Rangers together
Topic for the podcast was FOTM and the Ranger, and we managed(with the help of our guest: Lunchbox) to cover 3 of the 9 fractal instances (Underwater, Charr and Volcano, with a little reference to the Dredge). As a first try in the livestream world, we still have a few issues to iron out, but we will be working on those aspects as we get stronger and more experienced in this new format.
Thanks to all that managed to join us on our first live edition. I promise you that more will follow.

Don’t forget to check the episode later on our regular venues.

http://sittingonacouch.com/guild-wars-2-ranger-podcast-arrow-to-the-knee-e06/

Audio only is still down, and we are working on it.

Ranger Fellowship,

Arrow To The Knee will not be recording/live-streaming this week.
Join us next week for another talk with Jubskie, where we will talk specifically about the current state of Ranger Pets and also the coming patch.

We look forward to “seeing” you all there next week.

Best Regards

The VoD of the podcast will be up tonight. I apologize for all the delays. I was out of town last week, covering MLG Anaheim. I will work all this week on making sure the audio and VoD’s are good to go.

Jindrake.2851:

With this in mind, we mean to argue that the class is by no means broken, and if anything it’s more balanced and actually improved from it’s former status.
Arenanet shows concern over us, and takes away a small part of what we can do, as a sacrifice for the build diversity we all keep wanting.

Anything for continued access, huh?

Pedra.4381:

Jindrake.2851:

With this in mind, we mean to argue that the class is by no means broken, and if anything it’s more balanced and actually improved from it’s former status.
Arenanet shows concern over us, and takes away a small part of what we can do, as a sacrifice for the build diversity we all keep wanting.

Anything for continued access, huh?

Actually we don’t get inside access with Arena net. We are able to talk to them occassionally, but we don’t get anything that any other media isn’t able to get easily. I really think Rangers are overreacting this patch. So you can’t sit there not die and farm noobs with hard hitting pet attacks while using constant evades and regen to stay alive. I guess you actually have to fight and attack for real.

Granted, some of the changes seemed a bit bad, but the overreaction is ridiculous.

Ridiculous is the amount of hatred toward rangers………Anet said months ago that rangers should learn to use their pets, we learnt and now they hit us with a BIG NERFhammer, they make stealth nerfs too ( barrage have a 40-50% damage nerf)

urdriel.8496:

Ridiculous is the amount of hatred toward rangers………Anet said months ago that rangers should learn to use their pets, we learnt and now they hit us with a BIG NERFhammer, they make stealth nerfs too ( barrage have a 40-50% damage nerf)

They nerfed pet damage because it was bordering on ridiculous levels. In every single episode of Attk, Battosai kept repeating how insane pet damage was, and that half the time he could sick his pet and wipe out multiple people while he was standing back watching his back point.

Shortbow itself was the only weapon taken that was ranged because the auto on it hit harder than LB, and it’s range and damage needed to be brought down because it was ridiculous that it could fire so fast, and hit harder than just about any other weapon. Spirit pets needed love, and I thought they got it, but it looks like they didn’t.

If you didn’t think that SB needed a nerf and pets needed their damage brought down a bit than you weren’t watching the same games everyone else was. The only people freaking out are the people who were carried by the massive pet damage an only knew how to hit 1 on the shortbow.

Look you have to learn to fight a new way. So what? I still see rangers all over the place, no team is kicking rangers off. They are still viable at all levels of play, and in the hands of a skilled player they are tough to handle. The biggest change is there is now a skill level on the Ranger.

You can’t just send your pet in, hit auto attack on your shortbow, let your pet kill the opponent, and if he gets close swap to s/d and evade and dodge infiinitely until you get back to health.

The Barrage nerf is baffling since LB hits so weak and takes forever to do it.

Bas.7406:

Actually we don’t get inside access with Arena net. We are able to talk to them occassionally, but we don’t get anything that any other media isn’t able to get easily. I really think Rangers are overreacting this patch. So you can’t sit there not die and farm noobs with hard hitting pet attacks while using constant evades and regen to stay alive. I guess you actually have to fight and attack for real.

Granted, some of the changes seemed a bit bad, but the overreaction is ridiculous.

Oh how kitten easy this would be.

Contrary to popular opinion though, I don’t like to take down easy targets; so I’ll just be quiet on this subject.

Best of luck with your commercial podcast.

Bas.7406:

urdriel.8496:

Ridiculous is the amount of hatred toward rangers………Anet said months ago that rangers should learn to use their pets, we learnt and now they hit us with a BIG NERFhammer, they make stealth nerfs too ( barrage have a 40-50% damage nerf)

They nerfed pet damage because it was bordering on ridiculous levels. In every single episode of Attk, Battosai kept repeating how insane pet damage was, and that half the time he could sick his pet and wipe out multiple people while he was standing back watching his back point.

Shortbow itself was the only weapon taken that was ranged because the auto on it hit harder than LB, and it’s range and damage needed to be brought down because it was ridiculous that it could fire so fast, and hit harder than just about any other weapon. Spirit pets needed love, and I thought they got it, but it looks like they didn’t.

If you didn’t think that SB needed a nerf and pets needed their damage brought down a bit than you weren’t watching the same games everyone else was. The only people freaking out are the people who were carried by the massive pet damage an only knew how to hit 1 on the shortbow.

Look you have to learn to fight a new way. So what? I still see rangers all over the place, no team is kicking rangers off. They are still viable at all levels of play, and in the hands of a skilled player they are tough to handle. The biggest change is there is now a skill level on the Ranger.

You can’t just send your pet in, hit auto attack on your shortbow, let your pet kill the opponent, and if he gets close swap to s/d and evade and dodge infiinitely until you get back to health.

The Barrage nerf is baffling since LB hits so weak and takes forever to do it.

omg, our pet have the most stupid IA among all the MMOS, any player with 2 hands can kite a pet til the end of times.

you should need skill to play any class,but actually we have hard(ranger,engi) and easy classes(thief,mesmer),and we need BALANCE.

Good tidings Ladies and Gents,
Welcome to the most recent ATTK podcast episode, first of all.
In this episode, the controversial subject of the last patch notes is addressed by the ATTK duo and the wisdom of the one they call Jubskie.
In light of the recent outcry over the changes to the Ranger class, we decided it would be helpful to take all the patch notes and break them down into to what it really translates to our game play. Right off the start it’s important to understand the Ranger class is based on adaptability, as it gets more commonly referred to as the Jack of all trades.
With this in mind, we mean to argue that the class is by no means broken, and if anything it’s more balanced and actually improved from it’s former status.
Arenanet shows concern over us, and takes away a small part of what we can do, as a sacrifice for the build diversity we all keep wanting. Finally we see trait rework, bows being looked at and improved/re-balanced, new cc being added to axe off-hand and more. There are some 2 points where we think the hammer hit the hardest, but neither brakes us or even eliminates us from the current meta.
The Ranger is here to stay, friends.
To all our viewers, thank you very much for your continued support.
Join us next week as we welcome back Lunchbox for some more FOTM goodness!

http://sittingonacouch.com/guild-wars-2-ranger-podcast-arrow-to-the-knee-e07/

Wow, just tarted listening to the June patch podcast, sounds like Jindrakes mike has more range than the new Shortbow

That’s pretty funny, nag. They’re right about pet damage in spvp and the shorbow, no doubt. I’ve always agreed with those changes. Ranger is still very mean with precision/conditions the only change is now if you go bunker, you really go bunker. Most good players were already playing that way and their builds were largely unaffected in this patch.

Well I never played bunker really. Shortbow was really great for chasing down players, but with 900 range that is one thing shortbow gets a big hit in. Also most walls in wvw are roughly 900 tall, so now with shortbow you cannot hit people so easily who get near the edge. Even with axes you usually have to stand below the walls. I don’t like it, and the reasoning ANet gave that it needed to be aligned with thief shortbow and it overshadowing longbow is just not reasons for that range reduction for me. If you put FC Barcelona into spanish leage 4 and than argue that they are too strong compared to others and rule that Barcelona will play with 6 players instead of 11, what does that make you look like? Shortbow in wvw and ove was not overpowered. The reason of people using shortbow was not that it was the best weapon of GW2, it was just better than others. As for pet damag, yeah I guess that was reasonible. But look at it this way, we get pets pushed into our play pretty aggressively i.e. no was to hide them permanently, and they are the centre of a lot of our skills/traits. People actually found a really powerful build and it got nerfed pretty quickly. Much quicker than the buffs that come in baby steps came to rangers. I can see how companions might with the old pet damage would have been even more OP, but weren’t most BM/regen build using apothecary/shaman gear? Even Paundro used cleric, which does not have much crit chance to begin with, especially not in sPvP.

Bas.7406:

They nerfed pet damage because it was bordering on ridiculous levels. In every single episode of Attk, Battosai kept repeating how insane pet damage was, and that half the time he could sick his pet and wipe out multiple people while he was standing back watching his back point.

The Barrage nerf is baffling since LB hits so weak and takes forever to do it.

If this video is any guide he is full of it. Even as a glass cannon ranger other ranger pets don’t do squat for damage against me, and it is easy to avoid any damage just by moving around. The only way your pet is going to kill multiple people is if they are all afk. I’d like to see how long it takes a solo pet to down a tanky guardian who is not fighting back, let alone multiple active players who are.

Cuchullain.3104:

Bas.7406:

They nerfed pet damage because it was bordering on ridiculous levels. In every single episode of Attk, Battosai kept repeating how insane pet damage was, and that half the time he could sick his pet and wipe out multiple people while he was standing back watching his back point.

The Barrage nerf is baffling since LB hits so weak and takes forever to do it.

If this video is any guide he is full of it. Even as a glass cannon ranger other ranger pets don’t do squat for damage against me, and it is easy to avoid any damage just by moving around. The only way your pet is going to kill multiple people is if they are all afk. I’d like to see how long it takes a solo pet to down a tanky guardian who is not fighting back, let alone multiple active players who are.

You’re taking the wrong approach to this whole thing. Batto never said anything about a solo pet downing a tanky guardian, or killing people all by itself. Which is obviously not gonna happen on a player that pays attention.

He uses pets in tandem with his ranger, which is how it’s supposed to be. One of his examples is using dogs and when it knocks down a target, he unloads all the conditions he can via traps, axes and torches before the target recovers.

jubskie.3152:

Cuchullain.3104:

Bas.7406:

They nerfed pet damage because it was bordering on ridiculous levels. In every single episode of Attk, Battosai kept repeating how insane pet damage was, and that half the time he could sick his pet and wipe out multiple people while he was standing back watching his back point.

The Barrage nerf is baffling since LB hits so weak and takes forever to do it.

If this video is any guide he is full of it. Even as a glass cannon ranger other ranger pets don’t do squat for damage against me, and it is easy to avoid any damage just by moving around. The only way your pet is going to kill multiple people is if they are all afk. I’d like to see how long it takes a solo pet to down a tanky guardian who is not fighting back, let alone multiple active players who are.

You’re taking the wrong approach to this whole thing. Batto never said anything about a solo pet downing a tanky guardian, or killing people all by itself. Which is obviously not gonna happen on a player that pays attention.

He uses pets in tandem with his ranger, which is how it’s supposed to be. One of his examples is using dogs and when it knocks down a target, he unloads all the conditions he can via traps, axes and torches before the target recovers.

What part of this didn’t you understand:

“In every single episode of Attk, Battosai kept repeating how insane pet damage was, and that half the time he could sick his pet and wipe out multiple people while he was standing back watching his back point. "

If this statement is true, he appears to be claiming that his pet could solo multiple people while he stood back and watched. My response was that pets are so weak they could not solo a tanky guardian who was standing there and not fighting back. I know because I have fought a guardian like this in WvW with not just my pet, but my full on damage with a long bow and he just stood there and laughed at me… literally.

Wolf knock down is a joke. The windup for this attack is like 2 seconds and telegraphed a mile way. Only players who are unaware or not paying attention could possibly be caught by it (like in the mass confusion of a zerg). All you have to do to avoid is run away or dodge. Wolf F2 fails to go off most of the time just like other F2 abilities.

As often reported here and obvious to anyone who plays the class, our pets can’t hit moving targets and get insta-gibbed when we use them in zerg fights. So in any kind of one-one-one with someone with a clue, your pet is just a mild nuisance forcing your opponent to move around as he usually will be doing anyway if he’s in any way experienced.

I’m sorry, but anybody who is advocating that a system where it is okay for an AI controlled creature to be doing an extreme portion of rangers damage is a person who I am glad isn’t in charge of developing the game, because it is the least competitive aspect of guild wars 2 period; being able to hit F1 and have the pet do insanely good damage for not having any control over it other than yes attack, no come back, please swap, and maybe use the F2 ability after I’ve hit it 10 times.

Pets need to do less damage, and the player needs to be more active in order to be effective, end of story. If people can’t comprehend why what I’ve said is true, then they truly don’t understand what makes a game competitive or skill based, and aren’t ever going to hear their opinions heard as such because they’d rather have a mechanic carry them through the game than actually play the game themselves.

What I understand from that is he sent his pet to assist allies while he did his duty to the team. It was never explicitly stated that the pet alone was downing enemies.

Also, you talk like the pet forcing someone to dodge is a bad thing. If your enemy uses a dodge to avoid the knockdown, he has one less dodge to use against your attacks.

jubskie.3152:

What I understand from that is he sent his pet to assist allies while he did his duty to the team. It was never explicitly stated that the pet alone was downing enemies.

Also, you talk like the pet forcing someone to dodge is a bad thing. If your enemy uses a dodge to avoid the knockdown, he has one less dodge to use against your attacks.

He doesn’t have to dodge, he just has to move, which he should be doing anyway. This is all he has to do to “dodge” my longbow as well, just strafe sideways or run behind me. I have to dodge to avoid his attacks which don’t usually miss constantly like mine do, and pets not only do not dodge but when you stop they run forwards 50 feet ahead of you into aoe circles, or they lag behind and sit in them when you dodge or run out of them. Forcing me to run back 100 feet to get my pet out of aoe isn’t good for the enemy? Pets are also slow and will often die before they even reach the enemy.

The idea that our pets are in any way OP is a joke.

jcbroe.4329:

I’m sorry, but anybody who is advocating that a system where it is okay for an AI controlled creature to be doing an extreme portion of rangers damage is a person who I am glad isn’t in charge of developing the game, because it is the least competitive aspect of guild wars 2 period; being able to hit F1 and have the pet do insanely good damage for not having any control over it other than yes attack, no come back, please swap, and maybe use the F2 ability after I’ve hit it 10 times.

Pets need to do less damage, and the player needs to be more active in order to be effective, end of story. If people can’t comprehend why what I’ve said is true, then they truly don’t understand what makes a game competitive or skill based, and aren’t ever going to hear their opinions heard as such because they’d rather have a mechanic carry them through the game than actually play the game themselves.

I don’t see where anyone argues that pets should do an extreme amount of damage. I disputed the notion that they do extreme amounts of damage because they are so easy to avoid. When I have a ranger pet on me I just run in a little circle while firing and the pet does nothing. Simple fact is that with or without a pet my berserker warrior with a rifle does more damage one-on-one than my berseker ranger with wolf pet, and has a helluva lot more survivability and utility to boot.

As far as the ranger doing the lion’s share of the damage I am all for that. I think the ranger should do 100 percent of the damage and the pet should just be for utilities. Putting a huge amount of the damage we are supposed to be able to do as well as many of our utilities on a poorly coded AI pet that can’t hit moving targets, likes to bathe in aoe, has broken F2 abilities and gets insta-gibbed in WvW is not exactly my idea of “competitive” gameplay either.

Cuchullain.3104:

jubskie.3152:

What I understand from that is he sent his pet to assist allies while he did his duty to the team. It was never explicitly stated that the pet alone was downing enemies.

Also, you talk like the pet forcing someone to dodge is a bad thing. If your enemy uses a dodge to avoid the knockdown, he has one less dodge to use against your attacks.

He doesn’t have to dodge, he just has to move, which he should be doing anyway. This is all he has to do to “dodge” my longbow as well, just strafe sideways or run behind me. I have to dodge to avoid his attacks which don’t usually miss constantly like mine do, and pets not only do not dodge but when you stop they run forwards 50 feet ahead of you into aoe circles, or they lag behind and sit in them when you dodge or run out of them. Forcing me to run back 100 feet to get my pet out of aoe isn’t good for the enemy? Pets are also slow and will often die before they even reach the enemy.

The idea that our pets are in any way OP is a joke.

Sigh.

Another one of those people that greatly exaggerate their claims. No point replying to you, you’re just using me as a sounding board for your rants.

Actually I am more with Cuchullain then with the “Ranger is fine” crowd …

I played my Ranger for quite some time in WvW and PvE (not sPvP though)
I tried to play him after the last “patch” tweaked my build (cant afford completely new equipment) tried to like Longbow…

It just feels off now.
So speak for yourself jubskie as Cuchullain will speak for him and I for me.
The good thing is that it takes almost no time to level another character to 80.

I did that and have fun again.

But no one will give me my laurels back that I have invested in my ranger – a class I had fun with before this abysmal patch.

I have never once said that the Ranger is perfect as it is right now. In fact I’m one of the people that badly want it to get fixed. What I am against, however, are people like Cucuhullain that greatly exaggerate the shortcomings of the Ranger class.

If I were to believe him, my longbow would never ever hit a moving target, which is false, and all of the people I’ve hit with my dog’s knockdown is afk or a noob. which is also false. Also, the pet range is 2000, so how can my pet be 50 feet ahead of me?

jubskie.3152:

Sigh.

Another one of those people that greatly exaggerate their claims. No point replying to you, you’re just using me as a sounding board for your rants.

You are just using me and everyone else who complains about this class to minimize the problems everyone is reporting by making the problem about us, rather than the broken class design. You do this by tone trolling, launching ad hominem attacks, and deliberately exaggerating and obfuscating the points people present here. That was pretty much the tone of the Attk video as well.

Were you the one on the video claiming that the shotbow nerf was actually positive, because it is easier to flank in a 900 long arc than a 1200 arc? If so that was truly an exercise in cynical sophistry. You and the other people on that video remind me of those downsizing specialists whose jobs it is to explain why getting fired from your job of 20 years is really a positive, life-improving experience.

jubskie.3152:

I have never once said that the Ranger is perfect as it is right now. In fact I’m one of the people that badly want it to get fixed. What I am against, however, are people like Cucuhullain that greatly exaggerate the shortcomings of the Ranger class.

If I were to believe him, my longbow would never ever hit a moving target, which is false, and all of the people I’ve hit with my dog’s knockdown is afk or a noob. which is also false. Also, the pet range is 2000, so how can my pet be 50 feet ahead of me?

Nothing I wrote is an exaggeration but in fact has been reported by hundreds of people other than me. If you were truly interested in getting things fixed rather than apologizing for Anet, you would realize this.

You, on the other hand, are exaggerating my complaints and putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say you can’t hit a moving target. I said that people can dodge your longbow shots by moving sideways at range or running behind you while you fire. Anyone who plays this class realizes this. I also said that pets can’t hit moving targets, and this is also true. Our pets hits when the enemy stops or slows down, or someone ccs him for us.

I never said our dog knockdowns don’t work, but that they are easily avoided by moving or dodging, which is true. The knockdown takes two seconds to proc and is obvious as hell, so any good player will be long gone by the time it does. That is not the same as saying ti never lands or that only scrubs get hit by it. A good player can be hit by it from behind or in the confusion of a zerg as I clearly stated.

As far as the pet being “50 feet” ahead I am obviously scaling real world distance to the game world as we don’t have a standard of measure in the game world. Stop being so obviously and willfully obtuse and trying to obfuscate the point. The fact is our pets often do not stay at our side when we stop and run ahead into the aoe by a distance at least the equivalent of a 900 to 1200 range weapon. Similarly they lag behind when me move or doge out of aoe. A huge percentage of pet in aoe problems would be solved by either letting us stow them when necessary or forcing them to stay by our side when they are not attacking.

Cuchullain.3104:

jubskie.3152:

Sigh.

Another one of those people that greatly exaggerate their claims. No point replying to you, you’re just using me as a sounding board for your rants.

You are just using me and everyone else who complains about this class to minimize the problems everyone is reporting by making the problem about us, rather than the broken class design. You do this by tone trolling, launching ad hominem attacks, and deliberately exaggerating and obfuscating the points people present here. That was pretty much the tone of the Attk video as well.

Were you the one on the video claiming that the shotbow nerf was actually positive, because it is easier to flank in a 900 long arc than a 1200 arc? If so that was truly an exercise in cynical sophistry. You and the other people on that video remind me of those downsizing specialists whose jobs it is to explain why getting fired from your job of 20 years is really a positive, life-improving experience.

Did even you read my post above yours?

I want the ranger to get fixed just as much as you do. I just have a different approach, and it doesn’t include hyperboles like “pets run forward 50 feet ahead of me,” or “pets are also slow and will often die before they even reach the enemy.”

I have no issues with complaining about the class. I voiced out some of my own multiple times already. I just don’t color it with exaggeration like you and many of you “rangers suck” people do.

Cuchullain.3104:

jcbroe.4329:

I’m sorry, but anybody who is advocating that a system where it is okay for an AI controlled creature to be doing an extreme portion of rangers damage is a person who I am glad isn’t in charge of developing the game, because it is the least competitive aspect of guild wars 2 period; being able to hit F1 and have the pet do insanely good damage for not having any control over it other than yes attack, no come back, please swap, and maybe use the F2 ability after I’ve hit it 10 times.

Pets need to do less damage, and the player needs to be more active in order to be effective, end of story. If people can’t comprehend why what I’ve said is true, then they truly don’t understand what makes a game competitive or skill based, and aren’t ever going to hear their opinions heard as such because they’d rather have a mechanic carry them through the game than actually play the game themselves.

I don’t see where anyone argues that pets should do an extreme amount of damage. I disputed the notion that they do extreme amounts of damage because they are so easy to avoid. When I have a ranger pet on me I just run in a little circle while firing and the pet does nothing. Simple fact is that with or without a pet my berserker warrior with a rifle does more damage one-on-one than my berseker ranger with wolf pet, and has a helluva lot more survivability and utility to boot.

As far as the ranger doing the lion’s share of the damage I am all for that. I think the ranger should do 100 percent of the damage and the pet should just be for utilities. Putting a huge amount of the damage we are supposed to be able to do as well as many of our utilities on a poorly coded AI pet that can’t hit moving targets, likes to bathe in aoe, has broken F2 abilities and gets insta-gibbed in WvW is not exactly my idea of “competitive” gameplay either.

I’m going to be selfish and quote this on my thread about it in the spvp forum so I can keep bumping my constructive thread as to why a forcing an AI damage source to be a major component in damage output is a philosophical design flaw that needs to be addressed due to how not competitive it is.

It has lead the devs to balance (usually nerf) the player because of the pets position in a pvp perspective, and the threads point is to serve as an argument/reminder that now that ANet shows they are willing to change the dynamic of the pet by nerfing how well it functions as a mechanic, they need to take it all the way to a rework stage in order to push the idea that rangers are a threat without their pet damage wise, but can spike/burst a target (similar to adrenaline bursts from warriors) coming from the pet (and have extremely low sustained damage otherwise, with no rng skill rotation), or provide very strong group wide utility, making the ranger even stronger in combat when utilizing the pet appropriately.

That way, everybody wins. The pet can still do damage, its just concentrated in a different place (my example would be with with wolf. My rework says okay, it has a bite that does 100-200 damage max, and then the F2 can be chosen like a slot skill to either be a utility like their Fear, or a new and improved, highly damaging knockdown leap for burst) so that ranger players can essentially get the majority of the damage output coming from themselves so rangers aren’t at a disadvantage when they don’t want their playstyle to hinge around the pet, or in places where the pet isn’t available as damage, like up on a keep wall.

Oh man… what happened to my thread???
<.< this is not funny guys, QQ is so unbecoming.
Seriously, cut the crocodile tears!
Enough is enough, if you don’t like the Ranger, reroll.
If GW2 is no longer your game because you think:
a) Anet is against you,
b) Anet broke Ranger,
c) You hate everyone else that still likes the class you can no longer play.
Play something else. Period.
QQ is the worst possible way to complain against a patch, it shows immaturity, and as such simply gets ignored by the devs, and rightly so, since there is absolutely no valuable content to be drawn from whatsoever.
If anything, take a cue from Batto in SoTG and ATTK, and see how a true high skilled player deals with the changes to his main class.
Also don’t quote stuff that ran in a podcast show you clearly did not listen to (no Nag, not you). At least have the decency to actually know what you are talking about instead of quoting “he said”.

Oh and special note, because this was just to good to read:
“Special” access to Anet – I only wish that was true… sadly it is not. We at ATTK, have exactly the same level of access as any of you.
Commercial??? ROFL… Are you per chance, making a Jindrake’s probable wishlist or something? Because that’s 2 out of 2 you got right. The answer to that is still no, ATTK has absolutely no other return than the added work for me and Batto and whichever guest we have on that week.

Seriously thought, please refrain from being emotional on this thread…
This is suppose to be an announcement thread.

To everyone that actually took the time to think about what they posted and that no matter what, maintained their constructive attitude towards the game and the devs, always striving for a look into the bigger picture, ATTK salutes you and thanks you for your efforts.

Come listen to Ranger Podcast right now on http://www.twitch.tv/soacgaming

@Jindrake;

Very true, and I love what you guys do and are trying to do for the profession/game. Personally, if I ever sound like I hate the devs, I don’t. If I ever personally seem to be getting “emotional” on the threads/forums (I know it wasn’t necessarily directed at me, but still) its more so because other players/posters drive me to that point; with their inability to understand that a dev isn’t somebody who can wave a magic wand over peoples wishes and wants and make it all come true.
My biggest wish for the ranger forums is that for just once, we could try to start a brainstorming/constructive thread that doesn’t lead to everybody crying like infants because better players can’t feed them the builds they want to faceroll through content the way they think they should on their class, because it’s their class.

But really, I just want to thank you guys for doing the ATTK, and coming back with different players and topics, and sticking through all of that no matter how negative the community gets. Especially Battosai, who even though he really did the class justice in the last SoTG, is still getting thrown under the bus by other rangers for not being a miracle worker.

Please keep it up guys, I think that the ATTK is a beacon within the ranger community that shows that rangers have the capability to put forth constructive efforts with good intentions and to brainstorm and improve, and it helps keep me positive within the most negative profession forum in this game.

Another great show! Now I’m hoping for Skady, Xsorsus, Faux, and Hyjaxxx in a wvw centered ranger discussion. Why all on the same show? Skady has mastered the zerg ranger, Faux has mastered the beastmaster, hyjaxx has mastered Nature’s Voice for roaming, and Xsorsus is a classic signet duelist. That sounds like four viable builds…none of which are trappers…

I can’t be as nice as other people since this rubbed me wrong and you simply won’t let it go.

Let me get this straight, you make a public podcast, advertise it on the ranger forums in hopes that more rangers to listen in and then you are surprised when you receive feedback from people who listened in, disagreed, and decided to post about on the same thread you advertise your podcast. One would think that you would look on any interest in your podcast positively even if they don’t agree with what was stated in the podcast given the fact that the podcast is still quite young. Instead, you start off the ep 7 podcast by possibly insulting the very people who are supposedly your audience and then finish it off by acting condescending on the forums. I don’t even want to get into the end of the episode 8 one. Correcting facts is one thing; the rest of it is unbecoming.

My suggestion initially would have been to invite commentary from detractors or people who don’t have entirely the same stance especially for patch notes discussions but you seem to view it all as QQ judging by your last response to the above conversation (which was a bit heated.) If you do view it all as QQ, then you probably shouldn’t have even started on the forums despite jubskie’s jab on that particular podcast. I liked how he had to stop it after he started it too despite being the guest. Either way, this is all feedback on your ranger podcast content and choice of guests – whether you agree with it or not. You can stand by what you say (and who you pick) but take the criticism graciously if the ranger forums are indeed a part of your intended audience. Or don’t and risk facing irrelevancy despite your guest list. I know I tuned out the drivel. If this is what I can expect more of, I just won’t tune in.

I suppose this depends on the type of podcast SOAC wants to be though – especially with a tag line of opinionated. I simply might not be your target audience since I prefer NPR over Howard Stern.

Hey, Jin, I think you have your first critic! It’s okay, it’s just a Nobody :p ahahaha just kidding, Nobody

Edit: Balance debates are healthy thing, it would be nice to see opposing viewpoints, the only problem is that it’s easier for us (like me, I’m just an enthusiastic player) to talk about how to play the profession than to criticize balance choices we have next to zero power to change anyways. Wherever you criticize like that, you need many examples and data for a convincing argument lest it devolve into QQ or worse, insults. If someone can bring that and keep it civil, I know they’d love to have you.

Lastly, Jin is just a normal guy like us too so I thought it was funny some—naming no names, Pedra—think you have special access. Anyone can make a podcast on the web…that’s the beauty of the web!

Nobody is right thought, that if you become popular or advertise yourself, expect opposing oppinions to follow as well. And I don’t think you can afford to be dismissive or condescending, but I understand that this thread should be about the podcast, and not about the balance patch. There are plent of threads about that.

Having said that I can see that you guys put in an effort, like making sure the outgoing sound is good, and are getting better with each podcast. Feedback is feedback, no matter how polite it is phrased.

What I would like to see:
- maybe opposing oppinions would make for a good discussion after the next patch,
- some class on class discussion once a month, like a cross podcast discussion with other profession podcast regulars. E.g. Ranger vs thief with Battosai and a guest ranger, and Jumper and a guest thief discussing builds and how they work against each other. I think it would be highly educational, but maybe that might be something for a different podcast, and not ATTK
- see a dev on the podcast who plays ranger

nagymbear.5280:

What I would like to see:
- see a dev on the podcast who plays ranger

DO WANT!! O_O

jubskie.3152:

nagymbear.5280:

What I would like to see:
- see a dev on the podcast who plays ranger

DO WANT!! O_O

+1

Chopps.5047:

jubskie.3152:

nagymbear.5280:

What I would like to see:
- see a dev on the podcast who plays ranger

DO WANT!! O_O

+1

Robert we summon you!!!

If you are unable to address criticisms of your podcasts or Anet developer decisions without…

1. Accusing critics of thinking Anet is out to get them.
2. Launching into ad hominem attacks against critics.
3. Demanding that people limit themselves to “constructive” comments when discussing Dear Leader.
4. Demanding that people who are upset about changes leave the game.
5. Creating strawman arguments against critics
6. Denying the obvious bugs that plague this class.
7. Insisting that critics must hate the game or people that like it.
8. Tone trolling and demanding that people be civil towards you when you are engaging in the above behavior.

….then please refrain from posting in forums frequented by adults who do not share your opinions. You respond to the changes the way you like and I will do the same. I’ll leave the validity or accuracy of our respective comments to the judgment of the reader. But no one needs or is convinced by your ad hom attacks or tone trolling. So follow your own advice and keep “emotion” out of it.

You have a lot of nerve attacking people here for their tone when most of your comments are ad hominems, and when the podcast you showed featured snide, condescending and hostile attacks against critics of the poorly-considered changes Anet made. So demanding people be “positive” when your own tone is so relentlessly negative is hypocrisy.

What more can be said of a video that actually claims the shortbow range reduction was positive? By apologizing for Anet’s incompetent handling of the ranger class you are in fact throwing us all under the bus. Are we supposed to be grateful for this?

As to the claim that I am “exaggerating” when I claim that pets sometimes don’t stand by our side when we stop but run forward as much kitten feet ahead of us into aoe or aggroing NPC mobs, here is proof. I have other screencaps like this. Considering we often have to stand on the edge of aoe circles to get range on our opponents a pet that runs even 5 feet ahead can be a severe nuisance, let alone the distance shown here.

Given the amount of extreme immaturity and QQ in the days following the patch, maybe the people you speak of were on the defensive in responding to you, Cuchullain? You raise a few good points and it is hard to listen to one of our own asking for nerfs. I like opposing views.

Yet I’m struggling to see your view, Cuchullain. What do you believe and (more importantly) why?

Well, let’s try to stir up a healthy conversation here.

As to the claim that I am “exaggerating” when I claim that pets sometimes don’t stand by our side when we stop but run forward as much kitten feet ahead of us into aoe or aggroing NPC mobs, here is proof. I have other screencaps like this. Considering we often have to stand on the edge of aoe circles to get range on our opponents a pet that runs even 5 feet ahead can be a severe nuisance, let alone the distance shown here.

I found that attachment to be rather silly that the pet got so far ahead of you. It’s never gotten that far away from me on its own, although apparently it can. But of course, the ai can only do so much for us before we have to use the skills and commands on our tool belt with pets.

If your pet decides to distance itself that far away from you, it is at enough range that your call back command will work. If you’re out of combat, you can stow it. If you’re in combat, you could swap it. If the swap is on cool down, you can heal it. The only problem I see with a wayward pet is you have to blow one of two cool-downs in combat or exercise common sense while out of combat and keep it stowed. The ai has also been updated as to not target pets or minions if the player is not in combat, making npc trash a moot point. Also an individual that targets your pet will not place you into combat immediately, allowing you to stow your pet if you notice in time. It is also necessary to keep in mind where the pet will spawn when swapped, trying to keep a clear line of attack to get into melee range, or swap adjacent to your target, and using the swap as a dodge for the pet when it is caught in a bad area. And let’s face it, if you’re in combat it won’t be beside you if you’re at 900’ range (unless spider / devour) and their movement is a lot easier to control, and if the melee pet is passive beside you, it’s already dead-weight.

While it can be annoying to control and a valid point that it should be fixed, nobody ever said house breaking pets was easy. And until the pet is updated, that’s just how it is, and getting used to doing that makes it a lot easier to manage the pet.

What more can be said of a video that actually claims the shortbow range reduction was positive? By apologizing for Anet’s incompetent handling of the ranger class you are in fact throwing us all under the bus. Are we supposed to be grateful for this?

It may not be perceived as positive for the short bow itself, however it can be seen in a positive light for creating diversity by getting players to drop it in lieu of other weapons. It also hasn’t reduced the effectiveness of the weapon in mid-range.

You have a lot of nerve attacking people here for their tone when most of your comments are ad hominems, and when the podcast you showed featured snide, condescending and hostile attacks against critics of the poorly-considered changes Anet made. So demanding people be “positive” when your own tone is so relentlessly negative is hypocrisy.

I thought our tone was cynical at best, not very negative but not entirely supportive. Maybe you have an opposing view point against the changes that was made by the population that over-reacted with strong negative views that became the vocal majority. Maybe you felt that even though some of them were QQ’ing, they were making valid criticisms that warranted consideration and shouldn’t have been uncouthly tossed aside so rashly? I’m just not sure what your point is there besides saying we’ve called the kettle black. Let’s not throw stones at each other, let’s try and have a healthy conversation debating the pro’s and con’s of changes, their effects, and how it affected the class both positively and negatively, and the current state of the game from the perspective of a Ranger.

This, of course, is just my opinion on those topics, and are probably unique to myself. At the end of the day it’s all about perception.

Just remember:

“With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

Edit: Added a screen of the pet having similar issues to you, except stay even farther away.

nagymbear.5280:

Nobody is right thought, that if you become popular or advertise yourself, expect opposing oppinions to follow as well. And I don’t think you can afford to be dismissive or condescending, but I understand that this thread should be about the podcast, and not about the balance patch. There are plent of threads about that.

I agree that Nobody is right heh. Jin and I spoke about this exact point earlier this week after I saw this thread. He overreacted to what he perceived to be a player who was trying to turn the community into a negative community what he really didn’t want to see become the New Necromancer community :P.

From someone who came from a poisonous caustic community (the necromancer community was awful) and as the head of SOACGaming, I apologize on behalf of SOACGaming for some of the comments made on air and as well as on this thread. However, Jin is right in that negative attack focused threads that do nothing but mock devs are unproductive, and have no place on the forums. The forums should be a place to go for help and guidance, not a flame war or an attack on the developers justified or not.

SOAC and ATTK pride themselves on bringing players on that provide opinions on every facet of play. However, we will not bring someone on who has nothing constructive or productive to contribute. Bringing in players who do nothing but post how stupid devs are or how bad something is does not benefit or help the community.

We have had players on who our hosts don’t agree with Xsorus is one of them, and I believe jubskie hammered Jin about his opinion on certain pets. This is a part of the show, and if there is someone who has provided a contructive and helpful post than we do what we can to showcase them. We have no desire to turn the show into a let me get on a pedestal and rant about how awful it is to be a ranger.

We would much rather take the opportunity to point out that while we think some of the changes were not as good as advertised it’s not as bad as you think. We at SOAC and ATTK feel that there is a valid and helpful way to play and work within the game to better the community and by doing so provide educated and constructive ways to fix the class. It’s one of the things that Battosai does so well, and Jin Drake really strives to provide that input.

As for cross professions, we will get into doing that once all the shows hit their 10th show. We don’t want to start doing cross profession until all the shows get into a good rhythm. It’s definitely something we have been working on since our very first But of Corpse show.

As for getting devs on the show, it’s something we are always working on, but that requires us to get a dev for each show, and that takes a lot of their time.

Chopps.5047:

lol bully pulpit ahaha…wait are you serious, Pedra?

So everything I said and that’s all you got? Bully pulpit? Really?

Making Rangers sound better than they are…funny you should mention that Chopps.

Edit: If you can’t refute, report; seems to work well here. Well played SOACGaming.

No one reported you from us. I don’t find a reason to report players.

Arrow to the Knee is live at 8:30am PST! Don’t miss it!

Who’s going to guest?

Hello everyone.

Due to real life issues, today’s ATTK show has been postponed.
Hopefully, we will continue on our regular schedule by next week.

Stay tuned!

Enjoy the show.

However the latest episodes’ .mp3, I believe Jindrake’s audio was WAY quieter than Batosai and the guests.

Similar problem with the patch notes episode for the engineers, I believe Asteria Rose’s audio was way quieter on the .mp3 than her co-host.

Just a little feedback.

Thundercleese.4210:

Enjoy the show.

However the latest episodes’ .mp3, I believe Jindrake’s audio was WAY quieter than Batosai and the guests.

Similar problem with the patch notes episode for the engineers, I believe Asteria Rose’s audio was way quieter on the .mp3 than her co-host.

Just a little feedback.

Yeah but they corrected that the next time around, and checked if outgoing sound is fine.