Guild Wars 2

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Yeah we keep going back and forth between threads missing responses.

Not to be offensive, but afe you a pvper? I would be sad to see this trait reduced to 2 clears. i personally really like the current version of the trait versus the more and more prevalent condi bomb reapers and scrappers, and to the lesser extent condi mesmers.

Changing this trait would be another giant nerf

Rhapsedy.1569:

Druids – the healing class of GW2!

But we are making it now that it will be impossible to heal because you can’t get to that skill.

Oh look. Another Ranger nerf.

Yay. . .

What about Ventari revenant being a healing class, that should be to the same degree as druids?

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Yeah we keep going back and forth between threads missing responses.

Not to be offensive, but afe you a pvper? I would be sad to see this trait reduced to 2 clears. i personally really like the current version of the trait versus the more and more prevalent condi bomb reapers and scrappers, and to the lesser extent condi mesmers.

Changing this trait would be another giant nerf

I do not play Druid in PvP. Nor do I want to until the balancing has settled. But if it came down to it, I would rather this trait be on the chopping block than access to CAF—especially since this trait is linked to CAF access, anyway.

On base Ranger, I use traited Wilderness Survival skills for condition removal in WvW and PvP.

During the BWE, I remember specifically mentioning that allowing the druid to charge AF by overhealing was a terrible idea — and I stand by that statement. Overhealing is bad play, and if it’s blatant enough that even the game could spot it, it should not be rewarded.

IIRC, however, my proposal was for the rate of AF generation to be increased, and for healing to have no effect on it at all, so as to specifically reward playing a healer correctly — i.e., minimising the amount of time and effort spent on healing.

For this reason, I also supported having druid heals not be particularly healing power dependent.

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Yeah we keep going back and forth between threads missing responses.

Not to be offensive, but afe you a pvper? I would be sad to see this trait reduced to 2 clears. i personally really like the current version of the trait versus the more and more prevalent condi bomb reapers and scrappers, and to the lesser extent condi mesmers.

Changing this trait would be another giant nerf

I do not play Druid in PvP. Nor do I want to until the balancing has settled. But if it came down to it, I would rather this trait be on the chopping block than access to CAF—especially since this trait is linked to CAF access, anyway.

On base Ranger, I use traited Wilderness Survival skills for condition removal in WvW and PvP.

well, then you are saying you are okay with a nerf to a build that you don’t use, and therfore don’t fully understand. Support/celestial Druid is extremely good in PvP, and up until update today, was in an extremely good, albeit slightly overtuned spot. even post nerf, a overall better choice for a pvp team than power survival for sure, which I am also very familiar with. No one is arguing against some love for the base ranger though.

Gutting a trait to fix a borked mechanic is not the answer

Haha so predictabe. When regenerations (not just the boon) started to give Astral force, I KNEW it was gonna be ultra nerfed. I just knew it. And anet cannot nerf properly. They always nerf to hard. And often let it rot for a year in the ‘overnerfed’ status. I was playing 80% druid since HoT launch, but when they launch the ‘regenerations grant AF’ update, I instantly swapped my gear to another profession. And I was right to do so. It’s getting sad that I can even predict before a patch when to leave a profession, Anet. That’s how bad your nerfing is actually.

Insert another angry reply here. I know it’s not the point but considering I tend to let troll unguent pulse up the astral force and oftentimes I’m at the back deliberately avoiding damage, making it so it doesn’t work on healing ourselves is ridiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiculous.

Dom.2310:

Insert another angry reply here. I know it’s not the point but considering I tend to let troll unguent pulse up the astral force and oftentimes I’m at the back deliberately avoiding damage, making it so it doesn’t work on healing ourselves is ridiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiculous.

• It’s perfectly reasonable not to encourage or reward blatant overhealing.
• It’s perfectly reasonable to punish less-blatant overhealing — e.g., topping people off who are damaged, but not actually at risk, when you could be DPSing.
• It’s perfectly reasonable to not want people to engage in boring pointless busywork for a gameplay advantage.

evilunderling.9265:

Dom.2310:

Insert another angry reply here. I know it’s not the point but considering I tend to let troll unguent pulse up the astral force and oftentimes I’m at the back deliberately avoiding damage, making it so it doesn’t work on healing ourselves is ridiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiculous.

• It’s perfectly reasonable not to encourage or reward blatant overhealing.
• It’s perfectly reasonable to punish less-blatant overhealing — e.g., topping people off who are damaged, but not actually at risk, when you could be DPSing.
• It’s perfectly reasonable to not want people to engage in boring pointless busywork for a gameplay advantage.

Being encouraged to jump into damage pools and not dodge damage in order to ensure CA is up when it’s needed is reasonable, though?

So hang on… i can’t generate astral force effectively until people need healing, at which point i say “hang on whilst i finish generating force with which to heal you!” and they all topple over at my feet dead before i can get it ready. Makes sense.

I feel like whoever did this fundamentally does not understand how heals in this game work… given the nature of combat that relies on dodges and high dmg attacks from bosses, when someone needs heals they need them NOW not in 15-20s because it’s already too late.

I enjoyed the 1 day natural healing and regeneration were good.

I have no words for this one.

randomly.6395:

Being encouraged to jump into damage pools and not dodge damage in order to ensure CA is up when it’s needed is reasonable, though?

I didn’t say it was, but that can be fixed separately without rewarding bad play.

A much better system would be to eliminate all AF generation on healing (since you’re going to heal when needed anyway), and add a constant baseline regeneration to compensate.

Irenio cracks me up. . .

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Yeah we keep going back and forth between threads missing responses.

Not to be offensive, but afe you a pvper? I would be sad to see this trait reduced to 2 clears. i personally really like the current version of the trait versus the more and more prevalent condi bomb reapers and scrappers, and to the lesser extent condi mesmers.

Changing this trait would be another giant nerf

I do not play Druid in PvP. Nor do I want to until the balancing has settled. But if it came down to it, I would rather this trait be on the chopping block than access to CAF—especially since this trait is linked to CAF access, anyway.

On base Ranger, I use traited Wilderness Survival skills for condition removal in WvW and PvP.

well, then you are saying you are okay with a nerf to a build that you don’t use, and therfore don’t fully understand. Support/celestial Druid is extremely good in PvP, and up until update today, was in an extremely good, albeit slightly overtuned spot. even post nerf, a overall better choice for a pvp team than power survival for sure, which I am also very familiar with. No one is arguing against some love for the base ranger though.

Gutting a trait to fix a borked mechanic is not the answer

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

If it comes down to it, I would rather a single, Adept-tier trait with viable alternatives be gutted, rather than gutting the CAF mechanic for every other build and playstyle. This will hurt me, too (I use Druid in WvW with base Ranger Survival skills, using CAF for stunbreak/healing/CC), but I can acknowledge that the trait is out of line compared with similar Adept-tier traits in other classes and will probably be hit with a nerf regardless.

well still the stupid thing is.. IF druid is too strong in pvp you could easiliy just reduce the healing amount or stuff like that. even for pvp only. thats why it is a different game mode so you can balance stuff for both. there are even skills that work slight different in pve and pvp.

Heal too strong?
REDUCE THE HEAL but NOT ruin the mechanic! let them use their CAF like it was and just reduce the kitten heal if thats what anet wants.
this way now..

our heal is also reduced but on a way the mechanic is just not fun to play at ALL anymore.
The results are the same! but people are not limited in how they want to play their class. like we have like so many weapons to choose from and stuff. it doesnt matter if the only weapon we are allowed to use is the staff that even suck itself beside the fact we need it for the CAF.

remember this?
“new mmo is about to released. guys we have 3 classes with 1 possible build each and just 1 type of weapon and stats because you know what? kitten off build diversity. we think people dont want it so why bother”

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

Edit: Just to make it clear my suggestions were made with the assumption that the AF bar was completely removed and we simply got 15s in and 10s cooldown.

I’m okay with this change ONLY if we become able to enter CAF at any point in the AF. It took just over 1 minute to charge enough AF on a single dummy target, spamming staff >_<.

The poorly chosen requirements that need to be met are astounding…

- You can only generate AF in combat.
- You must heal yourself/targets lower than 100% with inconsequential heals (aside from Staff water combo) to generate the AF necessary to actual heal them effectively.
- You must have 100% AF charged in order to use CAF.
- Your regen must be the one currently healing a target in order to gain AF (if someone else puts regen on a target after you then you have to wait for their duration to run out and for yours to kick back in).

This means in order to be effective people need to first take damage (healing is supposed to be reactive, so this is ridiculous) or you need to make sure you’re taking some damage to give you a better chance at being able to support your allies in their time of need. You need to ask your group to not run anything that gives regen (a problem for tempests especially) so that you can generate enough AF to use CAF when it is needed.

This is a train wreck. Yes, it will still work, but in the most irritating, awkward way I currently care to imagine.

Substance E.4852:

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

What the… Are you crazy?! Are you seriously suggesting something this stupid?

I’m glad the devs dont come pick up ideas from this forum. Christ.

Substance E.4852:

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

Just in case this isn’t a troll post, I’m sorry, but it really wouldn’t work. Either of those changes would completely destroy Druid against even vaguely coordinated teams.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Substance E.4852:

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

What the… Are you crazy?! Are you seriously suggesting something this stupid?

I’m glad the devs dont come pick up ideas from this forum. Christ.

Maybe not such serious penalties but obviously gating CA behind astral force is a unfeasible concept and creating a penalty to being in CA is the only way to prevent bunker builds that Anet clearly doesn’t want in pvp.

It’s difficult AF generation or penalty to being in CA mode. You can’t have neither.

Edit: Just to make it clear my suggestions were made with the assumption that the AF bar was completely removed and we simply got 15s in and 10s cooldown.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Substance E.4852:

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

What the… Are you crazy?! Are you seriously suggesting something this stupid?

I’m glad the devs dont come pick up ideas from this forum. Christ.

I haven’t seen any actual suggestions or helpful comments to other suggestions from you. Just critcism.

aB EXT.1287:

Substance E.4852:

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

Just in case this isn’t a troll post, I’m sorry, but it really wouldn’t work. Either of those changes would completely destroy Druid against even vaguely coordinated teams.

They’re just general concepts. If people want easy AF generation or complete removal of the bar all together then it will need to be replaced with something that makes going into CA a risk and thus breaks the viability of solo bunker builds.

Anet isn’t going to allow bunker builds for esports sake and giving unfettered heals on a class with already excellent suitability allows for just that.

Edit: Just to make it clear my suggestions were made with the assumption that the AF bar was completely removed and we simply got 15s in and 10s cooldown.

We now also regenerate AF from regen and other sources of passive healing (which they didn’t mention in the patch notes.. I don’t know why).

Quid pro quo I suppose. But I don’t understand the arguments from people who are saying you can’t regenerate AF on their ranger if they’re at full health.

That much makes sense. You also regenerate AF from healing others, your pet, and DPS to a lesser degree.

With a staff, you’re always going to have CAF at the ready when you need it. If you need CAF, staff will be the way to go and I suppose this change is to encourage that?

Given that this change was coming, I don’t understand the change to staff 1 in the initial patch.

The people this hurts are those who aren’t using a staff. Which I’ll agree is a legitimate complaint.

I think regen and passive healing should generate a wee bit more AF than it does now so AF generation doesn’t feel completely gated behind staff.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Yeah the biggest problem now is that if you use a burst heal it’ll only charge it a LITTLE as it’s per TICK and not by heal %

And pets need barely any heals since the 95% damage reduction thing.

So yeah Astral Force.

Went from Impossible to gather (degen out of combat) to
Possible to gather to
Ridiculously easy to gather to
Much harder to gather.

We’ll get to “just right” (or “acceptable”). It feels like they’re fine tuning the mechanic still so don’t lose heart just yet. It’s still in a much better place than where we began.

Mahou.3924:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Substance E.4852:

Scrimschaw.5784:

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

2 Simple silver bullet solution to the problem:

A: Change Celestial Avatar heals so they either no longer affect the caster or severely reduce their heals.

B: Create a massive penalty to being in CA mode such as taking double damage or double duration of hard CC’s.

Either would effectively remove the concept of a solo bunker while preserving the team heals aspect of the class. These would probably need to be pvp only effects to preserve the viability of Druids in raids but it would work.

What the… Are you crazy?! Are you seriously suggesting something this stupid?

I’m glad the devs dont come pick up ideas from this forum. Christ.

I haven’t seen any actual suggestions or helpful comments to other suggestions from you. Just critcism.

Sure, whatever you say.

This change needs a rollback asap. Who is coming up with this stuff, seriously.

CETheLucid.3964:

With a staff, you’re always going to have CAF at the ready when you need it. If you need CAF, staff will be the way to go and I suppose this change is to encourage that?

Have you used staff exclusively since this nerf? In a non-zerg setting, forget about it. I was shocked at just how difficult it was to charge AF yesterday in a duo. At one point it took me about 18 seconds… And I’m a healing secondary, its got to be more painful with Cleric’s/Minstrels.

If this is how it’s meant to be now? Why even have a cool down.

At this point Anet is throwing darts at a wall with a bunch of sticky notes of ideas for how to make Astral Force balanced….we should’ve just got an underwhelming specialization that perma-stowed our pet or something. There’d be fewer problems with that.

Peakitten.6412:

CETheLucid.3964:

With a staff, you’re always going to have CAF at the ready when you need it. If you need CAF, staff will be the way to go and I suppose this change is to encourage that?

Have you used staff exclusively since this nerf? In a non-zerg setting, forget about it. I was shocked at just how difficult it was to charge AF yesterday in a duo. At one point it took me about 18 seconds… And I’m a healing secondary, its got to be more painful with Cleric’s/Minstrels.

If this is how it’s meant to be now? Why even have a cool down.

Not exclusively, no. It still feels fastest to generate AF when I do use staff over our other weapons but I’m not going to pretend I’ve done metrics on it.

Well this change made druid even less fun. Now even more auto attack and less class mechanic uptime.

IMO it’s a reasonable change, the biggest issue i have with druid is that AF drains too quickly in celestial form. i feel like AF should drain very slowly in celestial form and mainly be consumed by using celestial abilities.

that said, it a bit stupid now that i have to jump off walls to charge up AF before heading out for a roam…

scerevisiae.1972:

IMO it’s a reasonable change, the biggest issue i have with druid is that AF drains too quickly in celestial form. i feel like AF should drain very slowly in celestial form and mainly be consumed by using celestial abilities.

that said, it a bit stupid now that i have to jump off walls to charge up AF before heading out for a roam…

If only it was a real drain, but it’s just a 15 sec timer…

I’m with other few guys here suggest almost the same thing as you do:

Astral Force:
- AF refills itself like a Mana\Magicka
- healing allies\self will speed up AF generation

Celectial Avatar:
- CA is unlimited by time
- CA abilities costs Astral Force
- You can enter CA at any moment
- AF will stop regenerate itself when in CA or AF generation speed will be reduced by 70-85% while in CA

but I really doubt, that Irenio will listen to this…

Hax.8701:

Druid: Astral Force is no longer gained when healing a target that is already at full health

Please this is so ridiculous and unneeded.

Nerf? Dude, this is more like a bug fix. Lol. Stop complaining.

BadMed.3846:

Hax.8701:

Druid: Astral Force is no longer gained when healing a target that is already at full health

Please this is so ridiculous and unneeded.

Nerf? Dude, this is more like a bug fix. Lol. Stop complaining.

Okay…duuuude…that’s how bug fix should look like: “Regeneration boon doesn’t generate AF anymore.” because Regeneration was the only Bug which resulted in faster AF generation.

So no, it’s not a Bug fix, it’s a real Nerf and now AF is even harder to generate than before 17/11 patch, especially in PvP, not to mention, that even before 17/11 patch AF generation wasn’t that great…

I did not feel many Problems while being in Raids over the Weekend. Noone dropped before i charged my AF to 100% and after the first fill, it was always ready way before i was able to use it again (10s CD)

So at least in Raids, i can live with the Change.

After a few days, this change is even dumber than expected… Seriously who the kitten came up with this idea?

When you respawn in WvW, you begin with an empty AF bar. Good luck charging it… Currently my raid has to wait for me before leaving our spawn. Just picture it: 20-25 players waiting for a druid, who is next to them fighting a random Pig to charge his AF.

Get downed with 90% AF, rally with 0% AF. kthx.

A few players are at 80% HP… Heal them to full? NO! Just use you staff 1 spam or else you won’t generate AF. Ye, right ANet… Less hp healed = more AF generated, so smart.

This change is kittened up in so many ways…

Let us:
- Slowly generate AF while out of combat (5% per sec)
- Generate AF per value healed/damaged instead of per hit/tick count
- Keep our(/some) AF on rally
Then, this “fix” might be acceptable.

Hax.8701:

Druid: Astral Force is no longer gained when healing a target that is already at full health

Please this is so ridiculous and unneeded.

sounds logic no? how can u heal a target who cannot be healed because there is nothing to heal so nothing to gain?

….

Baest.4061:

Hax.8701:

Druid: Astral Force is no longer gained when healing a target that is already at full health

Please this is so ridiculous and unneeded.

sounds logic no? how can u heal a target who cannot be healed because there is nothing to heal so nothing to gain?
….

Of course, it does. But this bug was the only thing which made this broken mechanic almost playable… Now, it’s just broken and it needs some SERIOUS work.

Baest.4061:

Hax.8701:

Druid: Astral Force is no longer gained when healing a target that is already at full health

Please this is so ridiculous and unneeded.

sounds logic no? how can u heal a target who cannot be healed because there is nothing to heal so nothing to gain?

….

Yeah, sounds logic, but now look what we have:

- Druid is a healler class, if he’s using full healler gear he should be able to use his Class at max. efficiency. He should be able to enter CA more often than dps oriented builds in order to play his role.

but…

- Druid in full cleric gear now generates AF much more slower than Zerker Druid.

So…where is logic now?

Druid’s mechanic is poorly designed, it’s broken now and should be reworked.

Nerthus.3592:

Baest.4061:

Hax.8701:

Druid: Astral Force is no longer gained when healing a target that is already at full health

Please this is so ridiculous and unneeded.

sounds logic no? how can u heal a target who cannot be healed because there is nothing to heal so nothing to gain?

….

Yeah, sounds logic, but now look what we have:

- Druid is a healler class, if he’s using full healler gear he should be able to use his Class at max. efficiency. He should be able to enter CA more often than dps oriented builds in order to play his role.

but…

- Druid in full cleric gear now generates AF much more slower than Zerker Druid.

So…where is logic now?

Druid’s mechanic is poorly designed, it’s broken now and should be reworked.

hm oke, but i think its still playeble
in spvp i play condi regen ranger (no druid) with lovely regen for allies but i think when u play condi regen druid u do the same dps but now with an extra healing in situations when party members need it. Should work imo

Might be a nerf. But it at least makes sense. You can’t heal people that are already at full health.

Baest.4061:

hm oke, but i think its still playeble
in spvp i play condi regen ranger (no druid)

Ok, it explains a lot

aB EXT.1287:

The poorly chosen requirements that need to be met are astounding…

- You can only generate AF in combat.
- You must heal yourself/targets lower than 100% with inconsequential heals (aside from Staff water combo) to generate the AF necessary to actual heal them effectively.
- You must have 100% AF charged in order to use CAF.
- Your regen must be the one currently healing a target in order to gain AF (if someone else puts regen on a target after you then you have to wait for their duration to run out and for yours to kick back in).

With that being said, I rarely see my bar full, and when I do I’m always surprised.
Why is it so hard to charge it?! aside from that the amount of dedication needed to healing power to see any effect is discouraging.

On a completely different matter :

The fact that there is no healing power→condition damage conversion/cooperation completely negates half the weapons and skills while using druid.
If anyone ever addresses the issue stated by power rangers and Zerker’s of willing to make power a more viable stat alongside healing, I would hate to see condition damage left aside. (especially when its only logical to run a shortbow/1h sword versions with staff to be able to abuse the #1,#4,#5 skills of staff.. if you are not far enough while using those they are essentially wasted).

As it stands I see the GS+staff combo to be really awkward in terms of strategic positioning in PvE and I am fine by excluding a single weapon when committing to druid spec but as it stands most of the condi based weapons are left behind as well.

Good luck peeps, the next year of patch notes will focus on AF tweaking and tool tips while all the other ranger and real problems with Druid are ignored.

Hello lads , sorry i don’t get on forums that much , just when i am away @ work for a few days so i start reading it

As for the subject u guys r on about the AF regen , i know we are being nerfed day in and day out but did u guys consider playing another class for raids ? play your ranger at your OWN time and make another for raids , i know its unfair but its the way to go , i have been playing ranger since november 2012 , only created a warrior to farm my Legendary short and longbow’s , use your heals for yourself in your own free time enjoying the HoT Meta like i did we rock on that side of the game

I am a berserker ranger and my bar was filling up nicely while i was playing all HoT maps , maybe its because i am a berserker ? – i really don’t know and ia m not trolling – i finished all HoT maps got my gift of maguuma , soloed all the story line missions even the last one

To my surprise now i am seeing that we need different gears for different contents , i just saw a guy on another thread asking what gears he needs to buy beside his zerker gear to be a viable druid and the guys asked him what content he wants to play Fractals / WvW / Raids / or just pure PvE mapping , that is not fair imo , a PS warrior will stick to his gear on most contents just not WvW and even in WvW he can join in a zerg using that gear , but we gotta have gears for fractals which is condi i guess – i don’t do any fractals – , gears for healing for raids , gears for our own fun in HoT maps which is zerker if you ask me because its just amazing to deal damage while keep your heals up anytime u need or even be gracious and heal people close to champs

also another thing ,i have crafted Kudzu and the Dreamer , cause u know " ranger love " , now the only build i crafted the dreamer for was traps and that became toilets in sPvP then spirits and omg don’t get me started on that

People it’s time to make another toons for Raids and fractals and Ranger is for YOUR OWN TIME , i know u may have all your bag slots on your ranger like me or have a legendary that is only viable to thief now – shortbow – like me , but c’est la vie

sorry for my bad english and punctuations , cheers

Still don’t see what’s the problem here deleting the AF generation piece of crap.

When the druid is in CAF does not do any damage, only heal and CC. There is no AF, just a cooldown like now.
CAF scales massively from healing power. It does very little healing with no healing there, as soon as the druid put something there the CAF has to became useful.
The skills affects scales with healing attribute not just the heals: more range, more targets, longer effects.
The druid should be the only class that in CAF can affect up to 10 allies/foes if the player invest enough in healing attribute.
The effects scaling has to be rewarding.

Our system change to see the allies health bars also when we are in CAF.

Ancient seeds change to trigger in a chance when we daze/stun/whatever a foe.
Friking crap Grace of the Land changed to apply a permanent condition damage/duration reduction aura.

The staff is changed to high mobility and apply heavy/long CC weapon.
The first traits changed to define what kind of damage does the staff: physical, condition or healing.

The natural strides is a minor: baseline for Druid.
The master traits have to be pet oriented same philosophy: Increase some aspect of the pet: physical capabilities, new conditions application, pet get healing capabilities.

Lingering light goes back to cast an astral wisp. Trigger on chance on hit.

This will make the druid to come more in line with the rest of the classes, leave the exclusive crap of the only healing but having that option open for those that like just to heal.

anduriell.6280:

Still don’t see what’s the problem here deleting the AF generation piece of crap.

When the druid is in CAF does not do any damage, only heal and CC. There is no AF, just a cooldown like now.

True, but evidently being able to go into CA for 15s every 10s is producing too many bunker builds that are crapping all over Anet’s Esportz pipe dream or overheal regen would still be a thing since it basically bypassed the AF ar anyway.

AF is Anet’s hamfisted way of slowing down our use of CA heals and literally everything they do to make it “balanced” in pvp cascades through the rest of the game in terrible ways.

About the only way I can see AF getting removed is if they replace it with some kind of penalty to being in CA mode.

Something that actively incentivizes jumping in, throwing out a lunar impact and then hopping out to avoid lingering for too long.

The problem with this idea is there isn’t much you can do that will prevent bunker abuse in pvp but maintain raid viability.

Anet created a sub-class that can only really ever exist in 1 game mode at a time and probably only ever will since they have absolutely dug their heels in on splitting pvp/pve functionality in most cases.

Substance E.4852:

anduriell.6280:

Still don’t see what’s the problem here deleting the AF generation piece of crap.

When the druid is in CAF does not do any damage, only heal and CC. There is no AF, just a cooldown like now.

True, but evidently being able to go into CA for 15s every 10s is producing too many bunker builds that are crapping all over Anet’s Esportz pipe dream or overheal regen would still be a thing since it basically bypassed the AF ar anyway.

AF is Anet’s hamfisted way of slowing down our use of CA heals and literally everything they do to make it “balanced” in pvp cascades through the rest of the game in terrible ways.

About the only way I can see AF getting removed is if they replace it with some kind of penalty to being in CA mode.

Something that actively incentivizes jumping in, throwing out a lunar impact and then hopping out to avoid lingering for too long.

The problem with this idea is there isn’t much you can do that will prevent bunker abuse in pvp but maintain raid viability.

Anet created a sub-class that can only really ever exist in 1 game mode at a time and probably only ever will since they have absolutely dug their heels in on splitting pvp/pve functionality in most cases.

the penalty is already there and if you play druid you already should know this: Our heal skills do not directly heal us. The only one that heal us is the CAF#4.

So we get full damage, we don’t do any damage and we don’t get the burst healing. I don’t think we need any more limitations there actually the concept need some balancing to delete the ICD in the minor Live Vicarously so we get healed everytime we heal, but i could go to make the CAF even more focused in hard condition control.

To resume the concept you mean: in CAF we won’t even damage anything, CAF is to give heal to our team. If we need to hit something then we will need to jump between states.

anduriell.6280:

the penalty is already there and if you play druid you already should know this: Our heal skills do not directly heal us. The only one that heal us is the CAF#4.

…wut?

¯\(?)/¯

Shadelang.3012:

On this change. I remembe reading before that druid was meant to be a burst healer NOT a sustain healer. Ventari revenants and things like aura tempests are the sustained healers.

If that is there plan. Then we should be making suggestions on how to make that a reality.

How do we make druid a burst healing class while still having ventari revenants and aura tempests be MORE effective as sustain healer. And no buffing those two through the roof isn’t the awnser.

CAF from what I understand is meant to be a rare thing. Something you use ONLY when things are going badly. When without it your team is guaranteed to die. Its supposed to be on the level of an elite skill.

The problem with making CAF a rare, burst heal is that they want to force us to use healing power. Outside of CAF, healing power is worthless. We sabotage our own build 90% of the time to get more out of the other 10%. This is not good design.

Substance E.4852:

anduriell.6280:

the penalty is already there and if you play druid you already should know this: Our heal skills do not directly heal us. The only one that heal us is the CAF#4.

…wut?

¯\(?)/¯

You can’t heal yourself very well if you’re being focused and trying to heal a teammate. But, in all honesty, lack of stability is already pretty crippling to CAF. There is no need for all of this, especially when we have reapers using shroud constantly, which gives them obscenely high effective health and stability. I never have half the problems with druids that I have with reapers and heralds.