Guild Wars 2

I duel a lot. I duel with many of the same people who consistently use the same builds. I use a greatsword with my BM build.

Pre-patch people/builds i would consistently beat – specifically 2 mesmer players, i can no longer even get close to beating them, despite the fact GS is buffed.

2 man reasons for this:

1. Pets are far less effective. In my case they do far less damage as i run jaguar and lynx – the cooldowns of their active skills effectively increased by 50%

2. Quickness hurts our dps soooo much. Not only do we have more quickness than any other class, but the way our skills work mean i could previously only reliably land them with quickness, but that didn’t matter too much as i got quickness every 20 seconds they would land reliably 30-50% of the time, for the rest of the time it was hit and miss.

Examples:

Axe 2 – big damage if you can land it close range, but a long, obvious animation as well as the fact you have to get right on top of the enemy means good players will almost always dodge.

Entangle – you couldn’t have a more obvious animation, without quickness, the only way to land it is to first burn another form of CC.

Maul – again, so obvious and the only sword skill which actually does damage in a condition spec, now too easy to avoid.

In closing, it’s not -50% dps for the duration quickness is up, it means skills don’t even land reliably so the true effect is far more significant. These skills were designed to be hard to land, as they were balanced around us getting more reliable lands every 20 seconds.

What this means in short is that trap ranger is now the only viable build to 1v1 with, and it was already the best, now trying anything else is just a joke. 1v1 is also very important in tpvp and i’m already noticing it, don’t think i can perform my old role of holding close point anymore. Before 95% of the time i would hold it in 1v1 against roamers, today it’s 60/40.

Maybe i shouldn’t have been able to win 95% of duels pre-patch and the nerf was necessary, i’m not commenting on that, all i’m saying is this hit BM rangers ridiculously hard, they’re no longer viable….

They are viable. I still play mine the same. It is going to be difficult to get used to pet skills not recharging on swap as well as quickness just feels so slow now. However, I think these were fair changes. Gotta adapt.

Joey.3928:

They are viable. I still play mine the same. It is going to be difficult to get used to pet skills not recharging on swap as well as quickness just feels so slow now. However, I think these were fair changes. Gotta adapt.

they don’t compare to trap rangers anymore, therefore they aren’t viable. Why would anyone want you to run BM in a team when traps are so much better 1v1 and in groups…

I’m not saying you can’t run one, i’m saying you can’t make them as effective as trappers hence they are pointless.

Skill comes into play more. I have beaten trap rangers 1v1 when I wanted to steal their capture point they were bunkered at. Maybe they weren’t that good with their build. Same thing goes for bm builds. There are rangers out there who are good with them

Joey.3928:

Skill comes into play more. I have beaten trap rangers 1v1 when I wanted to steal their capture point they were bunkered at. Maybe they weren’t that good with their build. Same thing goes for bm builds. There are rangers out there who are good with them

i’m sure a warrior could kill a bad trap ranger – i’m talking about where skill is equal, the only scenario worth talking about…

Well I was talking about me on my ranger. I play a defensive bm ranger with longbow/greatsword. Give up on the profession if you want. I still love my ranger and I am always tweaking my build. I had to do it because of yesterdays patch (grabbed the trait where f2 skills recharge faster).

I just see so many QQ ranger threads and it is upsetting to me. We are a good profession. Played one since headstart. It took awhile to get really good, but it was worth it.

Joey.3928:

Well I was talking about me on my ranger. I play a defensive bm ranger with longbow/greatsword. Give up on the profession if you want. I still love my ranger and I am always tweaking my build. I had to do it because of yesterdays patch (grabbed the trait where f2 skills recharge faster).

I just see so many QQ ranger threads and it is upsetting to me. We are a good profession. Played one since headstart. It took awhile to get really good, but it was worth it.

I wouldn’t get too upset. It just purges the class of those that relied on the QZ crutch. Same thing is happening to some warrior/thief specs. I’ve never relied on QZ in any of my builds because it was obviously OP in so many aspects that I knew it would not remain as it was.

i never used QZ either, i used zephyr’s speed

Dont forget jaguar’s maul was nerfed, add it to your list

The more you have personally invested in something, the more likely you are to defend it, and the more likely you are not to be objective in that defense. Just sayin’…

I still play any build on ranger.
This time I got BM and it pay me good why u guys say it dead?

QZ feel nerf but am not think same way we all class got same50% but QZ breakstun is veryuseful more on skill slot.

danikaix.4670:

Dont forget jaguar’s maul was nerfed, add it to your list

I did read the jaguar nerf thread, but thought i’d hold off on commenting because i’m still doing my own testing – though it sounds bad.

Silverkung.9127:

I still play any build on ranger.
This time I got BM and it pay me good why u guys say it dead?

QZ feel nerf but am not think same way we all class got same50% but QZ breakstun is veryuseful more on skill slot.

The thing that makes BM in it’s past form dead was the pet cooldowns, i included quickness stuff in my post because i ran a hybrid, quickness nerf affects player more than pet.

Furthermore I’m not saying it’s now useless, I’m saying it now doesn’t come close to trap ranger’s abilities in PvP so it is effectively dead.

I run traps and BM build and it’s awesome !!!
My pets never die ( normal PvE > not dungeons ) and they do 50% of my damage. My pets F2 skills kill any ( normal mob ) and drop veterans HP to 50%.
Check my build http://tinyurl.com/ctzrrqc

Joey.3928:

I just see so many QQ ranger threads and it is upsetting to me. We are a good profession. Played one since headstart. It took awhile to get really good, but it was worth it.

Honestly, this. And well said.

Joey.3928:

Well I was talking about me on my ranger. I play a defensive bm ranger with longbow/greatsword. Give up on the profession if you want. I still love my ranger and I am always tweaking my build. I had to do it because of yesterdays patch (grabbed the trait where f2 skills recharge faster).

I just see so many QQ ranger threads and it is upsetting to me. We are a good profession. Played one since headstart. It took awhile to get really good, but it was worth it.

Some players are upset and have every right to be because they liked playing the class the way it was most fun for them even if they were a little underpowered that way.
With the new patch some builds that may have been a little underpowered now suck and are useless in which kills the fun for the players that ran and had alot of fun running those builds.
Just because your defensive minded beastmaster build still works for you doesnt make the class such a good profession. Players shouldnt have to suck it up and play 1 build that works because everything else sucks.

Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. In the state of the game video they called the ranger “long range masters” and potent skirmishers.
Currently the longbow is kitten and the shortbow is bland and just a little less kitten than the longbow. Sure defensive minded trap builds and skirmishing builds work for some but arent that much fun for others. Pets arent fierce and anyone with even the slightest skill can avoid just about every attack a pet tries to land.
You guys use spirits in you beastmaster builds? Trap builds?
Anyway, to the OP theres alot of dead builds that players used to run and found fun for their play style.

I am sorry, what? Only one build is not that viable, the berserker GC build . But that is it . Any form of condition damage or BM is viable

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Joey.3928:

I just see so many QQ ranger threads and it is upsetting to me. We are a good profession. Played one since headstart. It took awhile to get really good, but it was worth it.

Honestly, this. And well said.

You don’t happen to be the former GM of TAG?

Lol, as a Ranger that plays Tank/BM I’ll tell you that BM is still extremely viable. It may not be super OP, but no build should be.

Manekk.6981:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Joey.3928:

I just see so many QQ ranger threads and it is upsetting to me. We are a good profession. Played one since headstart. It took awhile to get really good, but it was worth it.

Honestly, this. And well said.

You don’t happen to be the former GM of TAG?

Sorry, never heard of them.

How’s BM not viable? Swap pets less… I use canines (never used cats for my BM builds if I wanted damage I went for birds) and I just keep one stowed away here I -know- if I need his KD (or burst if its a bird) when I need it.

Oh yeah, Speed Training and Commanding Voice are just absolutely amazing now that those CDs matter…

Durzlla.6295:

How’s BM not viable? Swap pets less… I use canines (never used cats for my BM builds if I wanted damage I went for birds) and I just keep one stowed away here I -know- if I need his KD (or burst if its a bird) when I need it.

Oh yeah, Speed Training and Commanding Voice are just absolutely amazing now that those CDs matter…

No, they’re not amazing; they’ve just become necessary as we’ve gotten weaker.

Joey.3928:

They are viable. I still play mine the same. It is going to be difficult to get used to pet skills not recharging on swap as well as quickness just feels so slow now. However, I think these were fair changes. Gotta adapt.

Do you think pet skills recharging on swap was OP? Do you think the class was too difficult to beat because of this? That pets were OP? I’m really curious if people thought this nerf was necessary.

Not all BM builds depend on pet swapping . There are at least 2 posted in this section that do the exact opposite , that is keeping 1 single pet in combat for as long as possible .

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

How’s BM not viable? Swap pets less… I use canines (never used cats for my BM builds if I wanted damage I went for birds) and I just keep one stowed away here I -know- if I need his KD (or burst if its a bird) when I need it.

Oh yeah, Speed Training and Commanding Voice are just absolutely amazing now that those CDs matter…

No, they’re not amazing; they’ve just become necessary as we’ve gotten weaker.

No, they’re hardly necessary, don’t swap your pets so often if you think they’re necessary, and tbh idk why it didn’t work as it does now, to begin with. I mean what other “weapon” or prof mechanic recharges when you swap it? The answer is none…

Chokolata.1870:

Not all BM builds depend on pet swapping . There are at least 2 posted in this section that do the exact opposite , that is keeping 1 single pet in combat for as long as possible .

MB builds by any chance? I was thinking of making a MB build again tbh, now that the whole constant swapping thing isn’t significantly superior to one pet.

Shiren.9532:

Joey.3928:

They are viable. I still play mine the same. It is going to be difficult to get used to pet skills not recharging on swap as well as quickness just feels so slow now. However, I think these were fair changes. Gotta adapt.

Do you think pet skills recharging on swap was OP? Do you think the class was too difficult to beat because of this? That pets were OP? I’m really curious if people thought this nerf was necessary.

Yes. It was necessary. I can pet swap every 15 seconds. Which means a knockdown from my wolves and the wolf fear is 15 sec recharge instead of 45.

I disagree with quickness hurts DPS so much because I do a lot of damage and haven’t been running quickening zephyr in weeks now. But, I’m running condi specs and usually run Shared Anguish if I feel like I need a stun break.

I’m trying to think…where is quickening zephyr good? The best use I can think of is to get off faster stomps (you’re about to stomp, someone CCs you, you stun break and finish the stomp with quickness). Maybe ranger, being so good at the downed state, is very good at

1) resurrecting teammate

2) staying alive from down state

3) stomping

Therefore, I imagine a ranger in a competitive, high level spvp environment, might get the job of finishing. I mean, just with 5 in BM I get every single stomp in wvw, no questions asked, so that’s the thought that sort of motivated this idea.

Is anyone familiar with high level / professional tpvp play? Are rangers stomp masters of stomp?

Eh I see all you people talking about cat nerfs. Wtf it wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes? Can someone give me info like cd increased by how much etc? How can they cover up stuff like these

Durzlla.6295:

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

How’s BM not viable? Swap pets less… I use canines (never used cats for my BM builds if I wanted damage I went for birds) and I just keep one stowed away here I -know- if I need his KD (or burst if its a bird) when I need it.

Oh yeah, Speed Training and Commanding Voice are just absolutely amazing now that those CDs matter…

No, they’re not amazing; they’ve just become necessary as we’ve gotten weaker.

No, they’re hardly necessary, don’t swap your pets so often if you think they’re necessary, and tbh idk why it didn’t work as it does now, to begin with. I mean what other “weapon” or prof mechanic recharges when you swap it? The answer is none…

They’re totally necessary if you want a pet-focused build to be even close to viable right now. Bad pet AI+highly telegraphed attacks+slow recharge+quickness nerf=lol@nonconditionrangers. I haven’t faced a non-condition ranger since the patch that I’ve had trouble with; they just don’t put out enough DPS to be a real threat. Pet auto attacks need a buff if this is to be taken seriously. They’re never going to buff our weapons to a point that’s really all that comparable to other professions, so at least make our pets something to be scared of. The only DPS pets that didn’t really suffer from this patch were Ravens/Eagle/Hawk, and the fact that they drop so quickly means that power-based rangers are being forced to take pieces of razor-sharp paper into battle.

I play a dual bow beastmaster and i am not having any trouble what so ever in WvW

The Demonic Spirit.3157:

I run traps and BM build and it’s awesome !!!
My pets never die ( normal PvE > not dungeons ) and they do 50% of my damage. My pets F2 skills kill any ( normal mob ) and drop veterans HP to 50%.
Check my build http://tinyurl.com/ctzrrqc

I agree, I noticed that BM combined with traps or at least a healthy combination of DPS + high condition damage is a pretty sweet setup. I like to keep fire trap and torch on me at all times, I have a really sweet rotation to keep my enemy (or enemies) on fire at all times, but I still haven’t perfected it. So far I am doing 0/20/20/0/30, however still working on improvement (more suitable gear and such). My ranger does fairly well, but that nerf… man it stings; its hard to adapt to the pet and quickness changes when it takes so long to get good at it (I am a firm believer ranger is the hardest profession to master) it just feels weird.

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

How’s BM not viable? Swap pets less… I use canines (never used cats for my BM builds if I wanted damage I went for birds) and I just keep one stowed away here I -know- if I need his KD (or burst if its a bird) when I need it.

Oh yeah, Speed Training and Commanding Voice are just absolutely amazing now that those CDs matter…

No, they’re not amazing; they’ve just become necessary as we’ve gotten weaker.

No, they’re hardly necessary, don’t swap your pets so often if you think they’re necessary, and tbh idk why it didn’t work as it does now, to begin with. I mean what other “weapon” or prof mechanic recharges when you swap it? The answer is none…

They’re totally necessary if you want a pet-focused build to be even close to viable right now. Bad pet AI+highly telegraphed attacks+slow recharge+quickness nerf=lol@nonconditionrangers. I haven’t faced a non-condition ranger since the patch that I’ve had trouble with; they just don’t put out enough DPS to be a real threat. Pet auto attacks need a buff if this is to be taken seriously. They’re never going to buff our weapons to a point that’s really all that comparable to other professions, so at least make our pets something to be scared of. The only DPS pets that didn’t really suffer from this patch were Ravens/Eagle/Hawk, and the fact that they drop so quickly means that power-based rangers are being forced to take pieces of razor-sharp paper into battle.

I’ve been using canines a lot (specifically the hyena) and I haven’t had any issues, intact the Hyenas have this sinister AI where they’ll stagger their KD so if you dodge one the other hits or you get a very nice talk with the dirt on the floor…

As for the power ranger thing, yeah idk, I use carrion so I can’t say I’m a power build seeing as how I rely quite a bit on condis for my full damage.

However I can say its absolutely NOT necessary to use those two traits unless you plan on swapping your pets every 15s, personally I never liked swapping my pets until they needed a heal and mine was on CD/I’d need it after they’d die without it. I suggest you get out of the habit of constant swapping and watch how much better your BM build works.

PS: how did cats get nerfed? I know my drakes, canines, spiders, and devourers still kill like they used to, never was a fan of cats and birds though.

Durzlla.6295:

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I’ve been using canines a lot (specifically the hyena) and I haven’t had any issues, intact the Hyenas have this sinister AI where they’ll stagger their KD so if you dodge one the other hits or you get a very nice talk with the dirt on the floor…

As for the power ranger thing, yeah idk, I use carrion so I can’t say I’m a power build seeing as how I rely quite a bit on condis for my full damage.

However I can say its absolutely NOT necessary to use those two traits unless you plan on swapping your pets every 15s, personally I never liked swapping my pets until they needed a heal and mine was on CD/I’d need it after they’d die without it. I suggest you get out of the habit of constant swapping and watch how much better your BM build works.

PS: how did cats get nerfed? I know my drakes, canines, spiders, and devourers still kill like they used to, never was a fan of cats and birds though.

It’s not a matter of habit; it’s simply how power-based rangers push DPS. I never swapped on recharge just to do it, but there was a method to timing swaps when you saw an opening in order to land your damage more efficiently. This goes for any build, but especially power-based builds. We need some sort of reliable damage increase and it was just flushed down the toilet. I fluctuated between Berserker and Valkyrie amulets and my build is all of a sudden rubbish in one fell swoop because no non-condi setup can do reliable damage for any sustained period of time without being so squishy that a glass ele lasts longer.

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

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I’ve been using canines a lot (specifically the hyena) and I haven’t had any issues, intact the Hyenas have this sinister AI where they’ll stagger their KD so if you dodge one the other hits or you get a very nice talk with the dirt on the floor…

As for the power ranger thing, yeah idk, I use carrion so I can’t say I’m a power build seeing as how I rely quite a bit on condis for my full damage.

However I can say its absolutely NOT necessary to use those two traits unless you plan on swapping your pets every 15s, personally I never liked swapping my pets until they needed a heal and mine was on CD/I’d need it after they’d die without it. I suggest you get out of the habit of constant swapping and watch how much better your BM build works.

PS: how did cats get nerfed? I know my drakes, canines, spiders, and devourers still kill like they used to, never was a fan of cats and birds though.

It’s not a matter of habit; it’s simply how power-based rangers push DPS. I never swapped on recharge just to do it, but there was a method to timing swaps when you saw an opening in order to land your damage more efficiently. This goes for any build, but especially power-based builds. We need some sort of reliable damage increase and it was just flushed down the toilet. I fluctuated between Berserker and Valkyrie amulets and my build is all of a sudden rubbish in one fell swoop because no non-condi setup can do reliable damage for any sustained period of time without being so squishy that a glass ele lasts longer.

You should reevaluate your build, I’ve seen some pretty horrifying damage coming from GS rangers (if/when they land maul, pro tip, take a spider/canine) not to mention longbow and short bow can STILL pump out a constant high DPS output, our burst, for the most part, was butchered, but we still have that brutally high sustain which if you ask me is more deadly due to how you can’t easily avoid sustained damage.

PS: if you’re a GC using a bow your defense is your range, learn to get away, LR and/or Monarch Leap+ hornet sting combo = you won’t be caught.

Durzlla.6295:

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

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I’ve been using canines a lot (specifically the hyena) and I haven’t had any issues, intact the Hyenas have this sinister AI where they’ll stagger their KD so if you dodge one the other hits or you get a very nice talk with the dirt on the floor…

As for the power ranger thing, yeah idk, I use carrion so I can’t say I’m a power build seeing as how I rely quite a bit on condis for my full damage.

However I can say its absolutely NOT necessary to use those two traits unless you plan on swapping your pets every 15s, personally I never liked swapping my pets until they needed a heal and mine was on CD/I’d need it after they’d die without it. I suggest you get out of the habit of constant swapping and watch how much better your BM build works.

PS: how did cats get nerfed? I know my drakes, canines, spiders, and devourers still kill like they used to, never was a fan of cats and birds though.

It’s not a matter of habit; it’s simply how power-based rangers push DPS. I never swapped on recharge just to do it, but there was a method to timing swaps when you saw an opening in order to land your damage more efficiently. This goes for any build, but especially power-based builds. We need some sort of reliable damage increase and it was just flushed down the toilet. I fluctuated between Berserker and Valkyrie amulets and my build is all of a sudden rubbish in one fell swoop because no non-condi setup can do reliable damage for any sustained period of time without being so squishy that a glass ele lasts longer.

You should reevaluate your build, I’ve seen some pretty horrifying damage coming from GS rangers (if/when they land maul, pro tip, take a spider/canine) not to mention longbow and short bow can STILL pump out a constant high DPS output, our burst, for the most part, was butchered, but we still have that brutally high sustain which if you ask me is more deadly due to how you can’t easily avoid sustained damage.

PS: if you’re a GC using a bow your defense is your range, learn to get away, LR and/or Monarch Leap+ hornet sting combo = you won’t be caught.

Great tip and nice read, I was re-evaluating my BM build so I went to in sPvP last night, filled a server with guildies and tested ourselves out. I plan on posting my results later on however, I did notice that both toughness and condition damage are a vital part of the most effective ranger builds. Whether you decide to be purely ranger, or middle ranged/melee or fully melee; it’s truly the ranger’s job to constantly dish out those conditions and survive the fray (not to mention that pet micromanagement). Now to balance it with power/toughness/healing, it simply takes you to spec your equipment properly enough. I managed to achieve 1000 condition damage, 800 healing, about 2000 power and somewhere between 2100~2500 toughness with 30~40% critical chance. The problem however is in normal world play, because its not that simple to gear up perfectly, takes money and time. Just to quickly mention this, QZ was a big obstacle, I did not find any way to use it that would help me land a kill the way it did in the past. The 50% reduction in speed directly relates to damage and if your enemy is not standing perfectly still, all your damage is wasted.

@awge, yeah QZ isn’t on my bar very often now, I bring it more for the whole “kill securing” thing in team fights, IE: almost killed their GC, CC warrior goes “Lawlz skull crack!” So I pop it and end their GC. As a burst tool… It’s, “ok” but I’d much rather take Sick’Em.

Also I agree that a lot of people are just SUPER DEMORALIZED that their build they spent all this time/money on just got boned with one nerf, they (ANET) really need to get something else to boost our QZ/direct damage to kinda compensate for those builds because they got hit HARD.

That being said, you can still -do- direct damage and be viable, but looking at before and after the patch is like night and day.

Wanderer.5471:

Maul – again, so obvious and the only sword skill which actually does damage in a condition spec, now too easy to avoid.

I found the issue you’re having. You’re running a GS condition spec. Don’t do that.

My BM build has no issues. Knights armor, cav trinkets, zerk weps. GS/SB. I can kill anything if I don’t make mistakes

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Wanderer.5471:

Maul – again, so obvious and the only sword skill which actually does damage in a condition spec, now too easy to avoid.

I found the issue you’re having. You’re running a GS condition spec. Don’t do that.

My BM build has no issues. Knights armor, cav trinkets, zerk weps. GS/SB. I can kill anything if I don’t make mistakes

That’s cute, GS was nothing to do with it, i run a different build now, still condition based, still use GS. Not a day goes by without someone i kill asking for my build, so trust me it does fine with condition ranger – maul does 3.4k damage inc bleed without crit, plus it’s mostly a utility weapon anyway so doesn’t matter too much whether you’re power or condition based.

Wanderer.5471:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Wanderer.5471:

Maul – again, so obvious and the only sword skill which actually does damage in a condition spec, now too easy to avoid.

I found the issue you’re having. You’re running a GS condition spec. Don’t do that.

My BM build has no issues. Knights armor, cav trinkets, zerk weps. GS/SB. I can kill anything if I don’t make mistakes

That’s cute, GS was nothing to do with it, i run a different build now, still condition based, still use GS. Not a day goes by without someone i kill asking for my build, so trust me it does fine with condition ranger – maul does 3.4k damage inc bleed without crit, plus it’s mostly a utility weapon anyway so doesn’t matter too much whether you’re power or condition based.

You have 1 source of bleeds with GS, and that’s maul. Then your enemy cleanses the bleeds. MY maul hits for the same damage, but my damage doesn’t rely on the fact that the enemy be too stupid to cleanse the bleeds. And what happens when you miss your maul? when they evade? when you’re blinded? when it’s blocked with aegis? When they blink/lunge away? My auto attack will still do good damage, yours will not.

By relying on conditions, from a weapon that does 1 type of condition on 1 skill, you are limiting the usefulness of your build. You can literally be straight countered by cleansing.

Your build is successful at killing bad players, that does not mean it is good.

“That’s cute”

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Wanderer.5471:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Wanderer.5471:

Maul – again, so obvious and the only sword skill which actually does damage in a condition spec, now too easy to avoid.

I found the issue you’re having. You’re running a GS condition spec. Don’t do that.

My BM build has no issues. Knights armor, cav trinkets, zerk weps. GS/SB. I can kill anything if I don’t make mistakes

That’s cute, GS was nothing to do with it, i run a different build now, still condition based, still use GS. Not a day goes by without someone i kill asking for my build, so trust me it does fine with condition ranger – maul does 3.4k damage inc bleed without crit, plus it’s mostly a utility weapon anyway so doesn’t matter too much whether you’re power or condition based.

You have 1 source of bleeds with GS, and that’s maul. Then your enemy cleanses the bleeds. MY maul hits for the same damage, but my damage doesn’t rely on the fact that the enemy be too stupid to cleanse the bleeds. And what happens when you miss your maul? when they evade? when you’re blinded? when it’s blocked with aegis? When they blink/lunge away? My auto attack will still do good damage, yours will not.

By relying on conditions, from a weapon that does 1 type of condition on 1 skill, you are limiting the usefulness of your build. You can literally be straight countered by cleansing.

Your build is successful at killing bad players, that does not mean it is good.

“That’s cute”

What happens if Maul is blocked? Umm idk i might have to wait 4 seconds before i can cast it again, wow my build is crippled. Besides, if you’re picking GS to be a damaging weapon then frankly you’ve no idea what you’re doing.

Let’s examine it:

attack 1: used for some damage and evade
2: used for damage (of which you admitted, i do the same as you even in condi spec)
3. used for mobility/gap closer
4. used for block/cc
5. used for cc/pet buff

So of all the skills, all i’m losing out on is a small amount of dmg on auto-atk which is pretty insignificant, as for cleansing bleeds on maul that’s an issue with every source of condition dmg. Besides if you knew how to play a condition build, you’d know it would be a good thing if they burned their condition cleanse on a 3stack of bleed on a 4s recharge! Seriously L2P a condition build before telling someone a weapon won’t work with it.

you said you duel a lot and i take it you are playing a lot of spvp. so i presume you’re either close point holder or assaulting far point.
why don’t you just run axe/torch instead of greatsword?
the way arenanet is currently handling the greatsword and the way they apply buffs isn’t going to bring it anywhere. axe torch offers more condition pressure and the utility you get out of axe isn’t that bad either – axe #3 is amazing, the first part of the skill helps your pet catch up to the target and the applied weakness for 10 seconds is really great against other rangers, engineers etc. because it reduces offense and defense at the same time.
traiting for offhand training in wilderness survival will not only increase your offensive abilities, but also your defensive one – 8 second cd on a dodge that applies 10 seconds of poison, a ranged cripple with 3 stacks of bleeding being a 100% projectile finisher on 12 sec + bonfire which covers a huge part of a point and can get utilized by both you and your pets to grant fiery shield for pure damage.
run frosttrap to gain both offense and defense again – you take 10% reduced damage, chill foes and your pet can actually catch up to the target.
furthermore almost any power build is not viable in high level spvp.

Durzlla.6295:

You should reevaluate your build, I’ve seen some pretty horrifying damage coming from GS rangers (if/when they land maul, pro tip, take a spider/canine) not to mention longbow and short bow can STILL pump out a constant high DPS output, our burst, for the most part, was butchered, but we still have that brutally high sustain which if you ask me is more deadly due to how you can’t easily avoid sustained damage.

PS: if you’re a GC using a bow your defense is your range, learn to get away, LR and/or Monarch Leap+ hornet sting combo = you won’t be caught.

If I hadn’t reevaluated I wouldn’t be complaining about how much my build was hurt by the update. Maul is too obviously telegraphed to be effective against people who are good at avoiding damage, and considering it’s the only major source of DPS on the GS now that all ranger quickness is garbage, it’s pretty much the skill I wait for when I’m fighting one, which is not hard; if you’re fast enough you can even run through them without wasting a dodge since most people are constantly toggling movement during a fight anyway. Perhaps I’m just used to playing enough that the majority of players just don’t use enough mind-games to get to me, but if you aren’t speccing into a moderate amount of condition damage now you’re basically useless as a ranger, and I find that conceptually wrong.

It’s fine and dandy to say that pets are a great source of CC and that they will help you land your damage, but if you are waiting for your dog to knockdown (obvious telegraph) or your spider to immobilise (even their non f2 immobilize has a distinct animation) then you’re in a sorry state when facing a player with a well-balanced build. GS is still inferior because of all the nerfs that happened, even though the damage/recharge changes were indeed useful.

I had fun running an all-melee ranger build and it’s now a completely useless spec from a pure DPS perspective. I don’t need to learn to get away, avoid damage, etc.; I just find it extremely detrimental to this game’s future success that they invalidate a complete category of builds in a single update. Will there be additional updates to help us? Possibly, but that’s not the point right now.

Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten, the thing has what may be THE MOST telegraphed attack on a player… then again in a team fight it becomes a lot better because you force the enemy team to either eat the maul, eat another teammates big hitter, or waste the dodges they don’t have because they keep dodging short CD big hitters…

That being said, if you go with a sword, GS, or axe/axe build you don’t need condi damage (still don’t think you should ever need condi damage) so you could always try playing around with something more like that if you haven’t already? I know Axe/Axe is actually becoming a lot more popular in tPvP from what i’ve seen (other than trap rangers ofc).

PS: More popular = I’ve actually -seen- several rangers running axe/axe instead of shortbow + traps.

Wanderer.5471:

What happens if Maul is blocked? Umm idk i might have to wait 4 seconds before i can cast it again, wow my build is crippled. Besides, if you’re picking GS to be a damaging weapon then frankly you’ve no idea what you’re doing.

Let’s examine it:

attack 1: used for some damage and evade
2: used for damage (of which you admitted, i do the same as you even in condi spec)
3. used for mobility/gap closer
4. used for block/cc
5. used for cc/pet buff

So of all the skills, all i’m losing out on is a small amount of dmg on auto-atk which is pretty insignificant, as for cleansing bleeds on maul that’s an issue with every source of condition dmg. Besides if you knew how to play a condition build, you’d know it would be a good thing if they burned their condition cleanse on a 3stack of bleed on a 4s recharge! Seriously L2P a condition build before telling someone a weapon won’t work with it.

You obviously haven’t experimented with GS as I have. It has the potential to deal out quite a bit of nasty straight damage, especially with boon duration and weapon swap fury trait. So while you are dancing around with your defensive greatsword trying as you might to peck at the enemy with your pathetic damage… I am being just as defensive, I have 190% vigor, 3k armor, but doing fantastic damage. And all those cc’s you do… they end up being almost worthless, since after you cc them you retaliate with no damage. I CC them with my GS then cleave their face in half.

Burned their condition cleanse? I don’t know what the hell you’re fighting that has only 1 cleanse on a long cooldown, but they are a horrible player. Warrior can cleanse constantly, and outheal your bleeds. ranger can cleanse 5 conditions in a 30 second span. ele can cleanse constantly. Necro can eat your conditions and heal more from them. engi can cleanse frequently, and can eat your conditions and turn them into boons. thief can cleanse 2 conditions every 7-8 seconds, of which you have about a 3 second window to apply them, if the thief is good (thats not counting their stealth cleanse) mesmer can have as good of cleansing as an ele. Guardian says “what conditions? oh is that what that tickle was?” Oh and this is all assuming that your conditions LAND ON THE TARGET.

This isn’t even factoring for condition reduction food, or runes. Both of which are very strong, and have gained much popularity recently. Conditions builds (with the exception of confusion) are often about the application of 3 or more types of conditions, otherwise they are more or less ineffective vs good players. This allows your enemy to cleanse, and allows you to still damage.

I play condition ranger, warrior, 2 necros, engineer, thief, and mesmer. Tier 1 both roaming and zerging…. so you might want to take my advice on condition builds.

“L2P”. Stop running your mouth and take some good advice.

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten,

Try turning your character into them as you are casting maul (lead them a little bit) and it should land. Also jump right after casting Maul to make the bear attack look more devastating =)

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten,

Try turning your character into them as you are casting maul (lead them a little bit) and it should land. Also jump right after casting Maul to make the bear attack look more devastating =)

I have done the jumping thing not gonna lie lol, and i normally will try to lead them with maul yes, we -do- hit everything within the 180 radius, so i tend to aim it towards my targets allies in team fights since they normally don’t expect it xD.

Durzlla.6295:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten,

Try turning your character into them as you are casting maul (lead them a little bit) and it should land. Also jump right after casting Maul to make the bear attack look more devastating =)

I have done the jumping thing not gonna lie lol, and i normally will try to lead them with maul yes, we -do- hit everything within the 180 radius, so i tend to aim it towards my targets allies in team fights since they normally don’t expect it xD.

I think maul has one of the most rewarding animations in the game. And then it cleaves, which really comes in handy.

Battosai.5620:

you said you duel a lot and i take it you are playing a lot of spvp. so i presume you’re either close point holder or assaulting far point.

furthermore almost any power build is not viable in high level spvp.

i do run axe/dagger on my alt set, i actually used to run sword/torch on the other set with offhand training and I agree torch is really effective especially for on-point damage. Don’t know which setup is better, but i am really enjoying GS atm, less dmg but not too much less, as my build has plenty of + bleed duration, so i get more dmg out of bleeds than burns relative to most builds (of course burn still does more). But i like the extra cc, especially for decapping points from bunkers.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Burned their condition cleanse? I don’t know what the hell you’re fighting that has only 1 cleanse on a long cooldown, but they are a horrible player. Warrior can cleanse constantly, and outheal your bleeds. ranger can cleanse 5 conditions in a 30 second span. ele can cleanse constantly. Necro can eat your conditions and heal more from them. engi can cleanse frequently, and can eat your conditions and turn them into boons. thief can cleanse 2 conditions every 7-8 seconds, of which you have about a 3 second window to apply them, if the thief is good (thats not counting their stealth cleanse) mesmer can have as good of cleansing as an ele. Guardian says “what conditions? oh is that what that tickle was?”

So you’re saying condition damage doesn’t work against:
Warriors
Rangers
Eles
Necros
Thieves
Mesmers

Wow so when you use your condition builds you die to everyone but engis huh?? That’s fricken hilarious! Maybe you should ask a fellow ranger for a good condition build, because most rangers agree they are far superior to power builds for competitive play (see above).

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Oh and this is all assuming that your conditions LAND ON THE TARGET.

Lmao this is LESS of a problem for condition builds than power, with power builds attacks still only deal damage if it lands!!! Except with condition builds, you can exploit small windows of opportunity to apply your conditions and then no matter how much they evade or block etc afterwards damage is still being done. Again, L2P.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

This isn’t even factoring for condition reduction food, or runes. Both of which are very strong, and have gained much popularity recently.

This doesn’t have to factor in food, i play spvp and tpvp. I don’t know what you do in WvW but you can’t directly apply that experience to other forms of pvp.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Conditions builds (with the exception of confusion) are often about the application of 3 or more types of conditions, otherwise they are more or less ineffective vs good players. This allows your enemy to cleanse, and allows you to still damage.

Lmao 3 or more? Geez that might be tough, oh wait my build applies:

1. Chill
2. Weakness
3. Vulnerability
4. Poison
5. Bleed.
6. Cripple

Wanderer.5471:

So you’re saying condition damage doesn’t work against:
Warriors
Rangers
Eles
Necros
Thieves
Mesmers

Wow so when you use your condition builds you die to everyone but engis huh?? That’s fricken hilarious! Maybe you should ask a fellow ranger for a good condition build, because most rangers agree they are far superior to power builds for competitive play (see above).

Nope you said that, not me. I was saying that relying purely on condition damage is bad, as you can be straight countered. Reading is hard, I know.

Know what else is hilarious? Your failed attempts to insult me.

Wanderer.5471:

Lmao this is LESS of a problem for condition builds than power, with power builds attacks still only deal damage if it lands!!! Except with condition builds, you can exploit small windows of opportunity to apply your conditions and then no matter how much they evade or block etc afterwards damage is still being done. Again, L2P.

With a condition/damage attack you have to rely on 2 things.
1. The hit landing
2. The enemy not cleansing the condition

A straight damage removes one variable from my damage potential. This might take you awhile to understand, so read it a few times and act it out in your head.

Wanderer.5471:

This doesn’t have to factor in food, i play spvp and tpvp. I don’t know what you do in WvW but you can’t directly apply that experience to other forms of pvp.

I do play quite a bit of spvp, but it’s just for my own entertainment. Anet cares little-to-none about spvp. They have done no substantial work on it. It’s current status is a joke and it’s meta is incredibly boring. The level of competition is almost non-existent because all serious pvp players have moved to other games. If all you want to talk about is a broken and neglected pvp mode that is unentertaining and uncompetitive, then feel free to argue about it in your own head.

Wanderer.5471:

Lmao 3 or more? Geez that might be tough, oh wait my build applies:

1. Chill
2. Weakness
3. Vulnerability
4. Poison
5. Bleed.
6. Cripple

Chill – long cooldown, easily avoided. Better hope your enemy is a moron and walks into your traps. Oh you want to throw them? Well I hope he doesn’t walk out of them, or that you miss.
Weakness – Are you referencing axe? A nice condition to be sure, but it won’t effect my pet.
Vuln – opening strike? doesn’t last long and vuln doesn’t help out condition builds. A good enemy will wait out this short duration.
Poison – A fantastic condition, nothing to say, I like it very much. A lot of professions have skills however that directly remove poison.
Bleed – already discussed, low damage, easily avoided. Your trap is easily avoided too.
cripple – your trap is already avoided, nothing to say here.

let me rephrase – “3 or more sustainable conditions”

Looking forward breaking apart your next nonsensical post.