Guild Wars 2

Why couldn’t this be a PvP/E split? Super lazy.

I think it’s even more lazy they nerfed the damage rather then correcting the amount of shots. AFAIK the tool tip still says 15 shots but it’s actually 20. Although I think the damage nerf is = to less shots anyways.

same amount of shots total damage nurf 25% so each shot does a little less.

instead of 1/3rd of a Golems hp on f2 it’ll be around 1/4-1/3 without might and if a person dodges poorly it’ll deal around 1/4th of the current damage Barely any damage at all.

if they fix it to do its orginal 15hits , it’ll do even less damage.

not happy they did this instead of fixing the bug ether , I just hope they fix hits to be 20 rather than doing onther damage balance around 15 hits.

if it does get fixed to 15hits its other 37.5% damage reduction down from the 20hits.

they better not Screw this up (hoping) and i don’t even use the Bristleback much at all it doesn’t fit my build but i’d hate to see onther pet un-intentional nurfed.

So can Anet unnerf Bristleback’s HP then?

It’s unfair that Anet has to double-nerf a pet…

Guess it’s difficult for players to dodge lol

forgetting the actual nerf for a minute, I find it oddly fascinating that Anet continues to nerf Ranger immediately, out of their normal balancing cycle, while letting other classes float for weeks/months/years with atrocious balancing issues. I think the record was the Heal as One nerf that took place 1 day after they buffed it.

As anyone ever seen another class consistently nerfed out of the balance cycle like this? Interesting to say the least..

mulzi.8273:

forgetting the actual nerf for a minute, I find it oddly fascinating that Anet continues to nerf Ranger immediately, out of their normal balancing cycle, while letting other classes float for weeks/months/years with atrocious balancing issues. I think the record was the Heal as One nerf that took place 1 day after they buffed it.

As anyone ever seen another class consistently nerfed out of the balance cycle like this? Interesting to say the least..

Nope.

Took them 4 months to nerf Chrono and Revenant.

Scrapper is barely even touched and Reaper is buffed.

Aomine.5012:

So can Anet unnerf Bristleback’s HP then?

It’s unfair that Anet has to double-nerf a pet…

Unlikely, as the HP was an actual bug where the end HP with its vitality ratio was getting multiplied by 2 for some reason. This “fix” however, was lazy. Should have been the correct number of shots fired instead of an actual damage reduction per shot.

I could chalk it up to Anet not knowing how to tweak the AI counterpart moves to reduce the number of hits a move can do, but as we all saw with the Smoke Assault reduction with the Smokescale – they know how to do it. It’s just laziness (again) at this point.

bdw, is it just me or pets feel lot more clunky since season 1? it take lot more time for them to react after pressing combat keys (and its not my ping) or they wander around lot more than before.

Brazzi.2045:

bdw, is it just me or pets feel lot more clunky since season 1? it take lot more time for them to react after pressing combat keys (and its not my ping) or they wander around lot more than before.

i’ve found no issues.

I really do dread patches. Seems the class eats a nerf every time.

What I find ironic is that they continue to do this sort of crap but yet ignore the fact people are not playing. HoT more or less was a game breaker.

This isn’t helping any either (not so much the change here with bristleback, but Ranger changes quicker than others).

I’m not actually as irritated by the change as I normally would have been since all of the ultra high survival amulets were removed from PvP (note that Necro chill damage was also nerfed too).

If this many years later, ANet is FINALLY getting around to trying to establish a survival and damage baseline, then that’s actually a good thing, though it will be highly dependent on whether or not they get to the more prominent cases of imbalanced damage output (Revenant, also Necro output vs survival is quite a bit over the top right now, but it has been since their chill get injected with steroids).

Considering what the nerf could have been, I’m happy with what it is for now.

I’ve been expecting it to get nerfed considering its power and cooldown, honestly. Granted, I didn’t actually think it was OP before, but compared to other pets its much better than most. Sadly, I expect them to nerf good stuff than to bother buffing all the bad stuff.

The fact that it came from a hotfix and not even in a balance patch is rather annoying.

Shattered Strength got nerfed in 15 days followed by an ANet apology, Power block in PvE got nerfed to useless in 3 days upon launch, Maim the Disillusioned got nerfed by 50% in 12 hours following June 23rd Patch.

Probably not the best to use mesmer as contrast lol

PvP is killing this game.

Levetty.1279:

PvP is killing this game.

But Esports! Just think of the esports!

TheLastNobody.8319:

Levetty.1279:

PvP is killing this game.

But Esports! Just think of the esports!

Aren’t esports supposed to be balanced?

The nerf is really bad. Bt if Anet actually fix the other pets and bring them to the level of smokescale or bristle i would be happy.

I do like more shots for less damage than otherwise. The reason is because if the target moves is easier to hit it with more impacts than if would be just 15.
I hope anet actually stablish 20 spikes like the actual tooltip.

Also i hope my pets to be able to survive random AoE when they are in passive. It is super annoying to see my pet miles away when i want it close.

Gnat.9405:

Why couldn’t this be a PvP/E split? Super lazy.

I don’t like it = lazy.

Aomine.5012:

So can Anet unnerf Bristleback’s HP then?

It’s unfair that Anet has to double-nerf a pet…

Or perhaps its unfair a pet is double-op. I’m not actually going to make a claim, but the important perspective is Anet’s.

mulzi.8273:

As anyone ever seen another class consistently nerfed out of the balance cycle like this? Interesting to say the least.

Ranger doesn’t need that victim complex. everyone complains about nerfs. Reaper was nerfed right alongside, but you probably didn’t read those notes did you?

SqualZell.7813:

Aren’t esports supposed to be balanced?

I’m going to go out on a limb and suspect you don’t understand how MMO balance is done, especially one that’s living.

As others have said I am amazed that were a special exception, that we get nerfed start season(when balance changes aren’t even suposed to be happening anymore), but nothing else thats problematic(DH invisible walls, thiefs damage, scrapper) really gets touched.

It’s sad this class has no damage, it has brief burst, but overall output is horrible on all our weapons. The pet is supposed to make up for that. Anet finally makes a pet that upholds that philosophy that doesn’t even make us competitive damage wise, is nerfed into the ground like this.

Expected this change for a while, although, pretty funny that Anet would rather just reduce the total damage rather than fixing the F2 bug. At least it’s still good for stacking might this way.

We’ll tempest right now basically invincible but hey hurry up and nerf ranger. Reaper chill is op but hey hurry up and nerf pets. And on and on…….. But I have to say that we use to be the punching bag of anet

Crapgame.6519:

What I find ironic is that they continue to do this sort of crap but yet ignore the fact people are not playing. HoT more or less was a game breaker.

This isn’t helping any either (not so much the change here with bristleback, but Ranger changes quicker than others).

Agreed. I play another game now, log into Guild Wars to get dailies done, and then log right back out and return to the other game.

For me, the expansion certainly has done more harm than good at this point.

BadSanta.6527:

We’ll tempest right now basically invincible but hey hurry up and nerf ranger. Reaper chill is op but hey hurry up and nerf pets. And on and on…….. But I have to say that we use to be the punching bag of anet

Before this gets repeated over and over again:

Necromancer—Reaper

• Deathly Chill: Reduced the condition damage multiplier for this trait by 15%.

This was also in the patch.

Just some questions for you Anet.

How many revenants in the final of the Pro League? 4.
How many elementalists? 2.
How many engineers? 2.
How many necromancers? 2.
How many rangers? Oh right 0.

If this game is balanced around pvp, why deciding, in a hotfix patch at the beginning of season 2, to nerf a class that is not even op, like the rev at the start of hot, or the bunker mesmer right after. The bristleback was hiting a bit too hard? Ok, i can live with that. But give us something else in counterpart, don’t simply put down a bit more a class for no reason.

Ranger pets are completly unbalanced. The bristleback and smokescale are way better than the other ones. If you nerf them to the current level of pre-hot pets, you will never see a ranger playing in the Pro League. Don’t nerf our best pets, buff all the useless ones so we can improve our build diversity and playstyle.

Why were you using a bristleback in PvE anyway? Tiger and jaguar are higher DPS and if you don’t need ranged to keep them alive since the AoE damage change.

At first I was annoyed the bristleback got nerfed in PvE, but then I remembered it wasn’t one of the two top pets in PvE so it didn’t matter.

Oh man, loving this thread

Lazy doesn’t even cover the incompetence and disdain that Anet shows for the Ranger class. Maybe they will finally see the light when the playercount is tanking so hard that they have to fear for their paycheck. What a shambles.

Brazzi.2045:

bdw, is it just me or pets feel lot more clunky since season 1? it take lot more time for them to react after pressing combat keys (and its not my ping) or they wander around lot more than before.

I noticed f2 is really unresponsive, I have to hit it several times for the skill to actually work :x

Shiren.9532:

Why were you using a bristleback in PvE anyway? Tiger and jaguar are higher DPS and if you don’t need ranged to keep them alive since the AoE damage change.

At first I was annoyed the bristleback got nerfed in PvE, but then I remembered it wasn’t one of the two top pets in PvE so it didn’t matter.

Personally for quickness bursting of trash mobs and structures, and fastest possible might stacking.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

Oh man, loving this thread

crusader amulet getting removed was the bigger deal this patch, but let the bristleback salt continue…

jcbroe.4329:

BadSanta.6527:

We’ll tempest right now basically invincible but hey hurry up and nerf ranger. Reaper chill is op but hey hurry up and nerf pets. And on and on…….. But I have to say that we use to be the punching bag of anet

Before this gets repeated over and over again:

Necromancer—Reaper

• Deathly Chill: Reduced the condition damage multiplier for this trait by 15%.

This was also in the patch.

Yes, but as shown in the necro forum the nerf is less than minor. Not that his point was right, but just saying that in ANet terms it was just a minor tweak.

Well… that’s very anet’s like.

One pet got a burst skill with a short cool down on F2? Let’s reduce damage.
Other pet got kittenty skill with very long cool down and huge cast time on F2? Let’s keep it like this.

I think, that’s beyond being blind… It’s obviously paired with being deaf.

Sad story, I really enjoyed the BB burst in PVE. Guess this means back to double cats now.

It’s time for Anet to show rangers some love and tackle some of the fundamental issues of our class (pets not being able to hit moving targets, AF generation etc.) instead of providing us with virtual ducktape (aka hotfixes).

This needed to happen. It was too much damage on an AI

Only problem is, the skill is still “bugged”, since it does 20 hits instead of 15 as listed in tooltip.

Azukas.1426:

This needed to happen. It was too much damage on an AI

Comments like this irk me more than anything.

Yes, the source of the attack comes from an AI controlled entity, but the attack itself when it’s an F2 attack has nothing to do with AI. It could just as easily be a toolbelt skill for an engineer, the only difference is where the attack comes from.

If you’re going to complain about AI, make sure you get around to figuring out what AI is first.

Didn’t need to happen. Too heavy. 10% would have been ideal. 15% is pushing it. But a 25% reduction?

That’s just mean.
:’(

Azukas.1426:

This needed to happen. It was too much damage on an AI

Even if said ai is a skill that had to be activated by the player, and said AI also accounts for a good chunk of that professions damage, which they have hardly anymore control over than a necromancer’s minions?

The 25% margin is identical to changing the number of hits from 20 to 15 in regards to damage output per use of F2.

It tracks stealth and teleports as well, so an extended cast can benefit the ranger against thieves and mesmers. I might be showing my age, here, but does anyone not recall the days before RF got its channel time cut? You could pretty much keep perfect track of a thief or mesmer while they were stealthed, and the ability was impossible to fully dodge. The extended animation of 20 hits provides this utility at the same damage output as of getting fewer attacks.

I suspect that the fix is just a “lazy” one where the devs decided to change the coefficients rather than re-make the animations and effects, though. Doing 33% more damage than it should is a pretty big deal; arguing that it isn’t is arguing that the damage adjustments made to the thief AA chains are just as insubstantial. The irony being of course both changes were made as band-aid fixes to fundamental class and design issues (be it with their own or other classes) rather than the problems stemming from bad coefficients on their respective classes.

Bristleback was the highest DPS before. But no more.
Average kill time against immobile heavy golem, with beastmastery:
Lynx: 19s
Tiger: 20s
Bristleback: 21s
Jaguar: 22s
Hawk: 25s

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Bristleback was the highest DPS before. But no more.
Average kill time against immobile heavy golem, with beastmastery:
Lynx: 19s
Tiger: 20s
Bristleback: 21s
Jaguar: 22s
Hawk: 25s

This is still a really biased result. See how a moa’s reach fairs against a moving target, it has kind of a leap attack to keep up with its target, making it much more effective. A ranged pet doesn’t need to move, but get’s LOSed like no other (see bristleback). It’s like comparing apples and oranges.

But to flow with the thread. Bristleback is in a poor place. Bristleback’s f2 is a perfect horizontal attack meaning any variation in verticality causes this f2 to miss 50% of the time. Bristleback’s f2 fails to take into account LOS meaning if it’s behind a wall or obstacle it goes ahead and does its f2 without moving into range. Yes, the bristlebacks f2 is extremely powerful, and Id’e be OK with the change if they addressed some of the overwhelming issues currently with the pet. But, as we all know, when a glass class get’s struck by all 20 shots without any counter (los/dodge/reflect/invun) they take to the forums to get this pet nerfed.

I feel that most of the nerfs/updates/buffs and decisions ANET makes would be much better if the AI in the game took a serious re-evaluation. Pet skills and attacks would be much better balanced if pets would not initiate f2 skills unless they were within range/not obstructed etc.

This was the only pet worth having. I hardly notice the damage from the other pets, it’s more like they’re just around for the sake of it.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Bristleback was the highest DPS before. But no more.
Average kill time against immobile heavy golem, with beastmastery:
Lynx: 19s
Tiger: 20s
Bristleback: 21s
Jaguar: 22s
Hawk: 25s

This is still a really biased result. See how a moa’s reach fairs against a moving target, it has kind of a leap attack to keep up with its target, making it much more effective. A ranged pet doesn’t need to move, but get’s LOSed like no other (see bristleback). It’s like comparing apples and oranges.

I think you’re got outdated info. Bristleback F2 Z-axis was bug-fixed, I thought that got it to 100%. And birds haven’t really ever been able to keep up, maybe they did because of swiftness before people traited for pet speed after HoT came.

More numbers, this time against moving golem:
Bristleback: 32s (including LOS misses)
Lynx: 34s
Hawk: 38s
Red Moa: >80s

UnitedChaos.8364:

See how a moa’s reach fairs against a moving target, it has kind of a leap attack to keep up with its target, making it much more effective.

Not even sure where this came from as pet Moas never had such a move. The only Moas that have a leap of any kind are the NPC variants which is a kick and players transformed into Moas.

Check in-game yourself if you must. Pet Moas have only had Peck and Frenzied something which are 130 range, and fair just as poorly vs moving targets with a majority of pets.

That aside, here’s hoping they don’t touch BB’s Rain of Spikes. It’s the saving grace move of stacking this little guy inside a hitbox of a target in PvE. x)

Another reason to hope Bristleback doesn’t lose number of shots (and a definite reason for it to be used in PVE): Strength of the Pack.

bearshaman.3421:

Another reason to hope Bristleback doesn’t lose number of shots (and a definite reason for it to be used in PVE): Strength of the Pack.

The ability works almost like Engie Pistol Poison Darts. They do not track target and they scatter. Which means that on a stationary target form range they don’t hit as often as the maximum number of darts is.

On a moving target from range it’s far and far less. I started using my Spider. The 3 sec immobilize makes a difference.

In my opinion, Bristle indeed deserved the nerf. I mean, it was an incredibly powerful attack for the CD it had. However, it was the only thing a Ranger had.
And we got stuck in our useless position once again. We don’t deal damage, now pets don’t do stuff, we still have no real way to survive focus fire, they nerfed CAF, everything is bugged or clunky and I’m reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally getting tired of their sh@#.

They haven’t skipped a single freaking patch to avoid nerfing the ranger. Not a single one. They haven’t addressed any of the most required changes like being reliable. But hey, they made us less competitive for no reason. That’s cool.

This must mean that this quarter they will fix the sword or something, or maybe summer we will get to bleed from the front with shortbow…

what an amazing nerf again from anet Woww bristleback really dead! Hitting only around 20k.. we need kill shot pet in pvp. Please tell your genius planner developer or who is responsible