Guild Wars 2

@Lugh:
What build are you comparing against? Please look at the the build I posted. It has Beastmastery. That means it has all those same things you just mentioned. That makes all but your last paragraph moot :-/

If you’re comfortable with starting fights with abilities on cooldowns, that is your perogative. Perhaps you too already have experience with it and were fine with it. My personal experience with it was that it was sub-optimal.

Toxsa.2701:

Now this is a build I look forward to running!

PVE-wise this will totally work.
Maybe it’ll become the Meta in Dungeon XD.

Double GS Ranger incoming!
[/quote]

Made me LOL pretty good given how slim that chance is.

Aye, that is quite a slim chance since being used in the PvE Speedrun meta was never a thought when creating the build so it does not squeeze out every last bit of damage it can … instead taking some survivability.

It would be a good build for farming, if the traits were moved to 6/6/0/0/6 for max damage and as it is at 6/0/6/0/6 it is really nice for both pvp and wvw aspects. Speedrunning is garbage anyway, it only breeds contempt for content, removing the fun from it, creating frustration and elitism.

@Heimskarl:
I agree with the possible uses for the build and its alternate version.

I disagree on your stance on speed-running. I don’t think people should dictate to others how they should consume the content.

I also see nothing wrong with people trying to get the rewards as quickly as possible instead of spending considerably more time hoping the trash mobs will drop something that makes that extra time worth it.

I’ve done both “kill everything” and “speedruns” in various dungeons. It depends on my mood and available time. There is something to be said for finishing several paths of a dungeon in less than an hour.

The frustration and elitism are an issue with the people, not speedrunning itself. The people that is an issue with would still make that an issue somehow. It’s sadly part of their current “wiring”.

There are plenty of people willing to teach speedruns when they’re in the mood … but the people they teach have to not take build critiques as personal attacks either … another faulty personality trait.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

WVW and PVP is garbage anyway, it only breeds contempt for content, removing the fun from it, creating frustration and elitism.

FTFY.

:D

Sebrent.3625:

I disagree on your stance on speed-running. I don’t think people should dictate to others how they should consume the content.

I also see nothing wrong with people trying to get the rewards as quickly as possible instead of spending considerably more time hoping the trash mobs will drop something that makes that extra time worth it.

I’ve done both “kill everything” and “speedruns” in various dungeons. It depends on my mood and available time. There is something to be said for finishing several paths of a dungeon in less than an hour.

The frustration and elitism are an issue with the people, not speedrunning itself. The people that is an issue with would still make that an issue somehow. It’s sadly part of their current “wiring”.

There are plenty of people willing to teach speedruns when they’re in the mood … but the people they teach have to not take build critiques as personal attacks either … another faulty personality trait.

I wasn’t dictating anything, I also think that people can do as they please, it concerns me not how they play the game. I too have done speedrunning but found it boring. Every dungeon except Arah can be completed in less than an hour without speedrunning groups. My regular group consists of myself as sword-Axe/GS Frost Spotter, a Prot spam hammer guard, PS warrior, GS-Axe/S warrior and a Thief. We get it done pretty fast but its still relaxed and we are not worried if it takes an extra few mins for some reason.

The frustration and elitism is indeed the people, what is creates is meta builds that everyone must run and gear checks etc. And people with NO tolerance or understanding of newbies. That part really annoys me. Also, when you do content like this, it is inherently easy because you repeat it over and over, to me, that makes it boring. But each to their own.

Okay, I see.
I’d say your previous post wasn’t well-worded to what you were trying to convey.

The speed-runs I do as well are chill. We’re not trying to break records, but we want to just “get it done” so we can take our chests, gold, and tokens and move on to the next thing we feel like doing.

I can understand some people’s frustration with noobies … to an extent. Sometimes you’re in a rush.

That being said, yes, people need to treat other players like people … darn new generation born with the Internet seem to think of other people as just things for them to use. If they treated anyone like that in person they’d have learned their lesson quickly :-/

Some new people are also to blame. There are those that when you explain something to them, no matter how nice, take it as a personal insult. Personally, I have no time for those people. Anyone who can’t take critique is honestly not worth my time. No one is perfect … especially those that think they are.

…
now … more important … how’d we get from the Remorseless Greatsword build to this? :-p

Did you read my post about having a leeching and an Intelligence sigil on the GS? If the build was used in PvE and was 6/6/0/0/6 Quick Draw, you would have a guaranteed 4 crits-in-a-row, two of which would be Mauls. Looking forward to trying that with SoTW and an AoO!

Leeching is definitely a good candidate for your 2nd sigil on the Greatsword. I’m a huge fan of it when I run my current “Terminator” spec (see other thread). Extra damage AND some healing … always welcome.

I don’t understand how you’re getting the 4 crits. Could you elaborate?

When you swap, you get the leeching effect and the intelligence effect, the leeching one must be used first before any other on-swap effects will take effect. So, the 1st after the swap will be an opening strike due to the proc from furious grip (in the 6/6/0/0/6 build) and then the next 3 attacks will be crits from the intelligence sigil.

Are you sure the first attack won’t consume both the opening strike and one of the 3 attacks of the intelligence sigil thereby wasting it since you already have auto-crit from the opening strike?

Good lord … look at what they are giving my Mesmer (and other Mesmers as well, lol) with the Chronomancer …

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-chronomancer-mesmers-elite-specialization/

http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2/arenanet-reveal-mesmer-elite-specialization-chronomancer

Between:

• Specialization System rework
• Conditions rework
• All the extra core systems they had to at least modify to support the chronomancer
• Them talking about improving PvE AI (which our pets use)

I’m extremely excited to see what all the Druid is going to bring to the table.

I mean, heck, my Mesmer can now completely reset himself. If Rangers got half of that it’d be nice.

I have a feeling we may end up dumping this thread when the Druid info is released and start having Druid/X/Y builds :-p

Sebrent.3625:

I have a feeling we may end up dumping this thread when the Druid info is released and start having Druid/X/Y builds :-p

well the whole point of these discussions is to help them acknowledge that the base prof should be perfectly viable, strong and relevant. meaning, they need to address the useless traits and weapon skills on top of working on the elite spec.

chronomancer looks like an insane skill-based build that could totally change the outcome of any fight

Sebrent.3625:

I have a feeling we may end up dumping this thread when the Druid info is released and start having Druid/X/Y builds :-p

Mate, I’m thinking that no matter what the Druid traits/mechanic are, that my build will be Druid traits with BB, MoC, Remorseless/RTimbre, 2HT, ZS and a GS/Staff Assuming we don’t lose either when choosing Druid, but I’m guessing we lose Nature Magic for Druid Super Nature Magic. Hoping…

It looks like from the wording and feeling imparted by the info on specializations, we won’t necessarily lose access to things like trait lines, but rather the elite spec will take up one of our three choices, so you won’t have as much choice from the base specs

From what I gathered Ghotistyx is right.

From their own example you can be a ranger who specializes in beastmastery, wilderness survival, and marksmanship or you can be a druid who specializes in beastmastery and wilderness survival. As a druid you are forced into the druid trait line and can pick two others.

So we won’t be able to use any of the full ranger builds, but we WILL be able to make new druid builds based on the trait synergy between the druid line and the rest. I’m betting Druidism, Beastmastery, and Nature Magic might result in something interesting.

Sebrent.3625:

..snip..

Using Dulfy’s and That_Shamans new build calculator:

Remorsless Greatsword

Easier on the eyes for some.

That seems great for pvp but for PVE moment of clarity should be replaced by steady focus, beastly warden by zephyr’s speed, and im not quite sure on the math but the whole wilderness survival could be replaced by skirmishing for spotter.

So, for PvE, you would use this one instead.

That is a nice little calculator, hopefully they give out the gear stats soon and they can add those as well. Nice find!

Coming in off-topic (something I seem to do a lot :s), but looking at link ItIsFinished just posted made me wonder…

With the new trait system can we still take 2 Adept Traits rather and 1 Adept and 1 Master? Or are we locked into taking one in each tier?

I ask because as a SB fan I definately want both Sharpened Edges and Light on your Feet, which are both going to be in the Adept slot.

Cufufalating.8479:

Coming in off-topic (something I seem to do a lot :s), but looking at link ItIsFinished just posted made me wonder…

With the new trait system can we still take 2 Adept Traits rather and 1 Adept and 1 Master? Or are we locked into taking one in each tier?

I ask because as a SB fan I definately want both Sharpened Edges and Light on your Feet, which are both going to be in the Adept slot.

Sharpened edges is adept and light on your feet is GM.

They are looking at making MDG a GM and moving LoYF to Adept. That would be a gigantic mistake of epic proportions if you ask me.

Yeh that would be pretty stupid then. And mdg is def not a gm trait…fine where it is.

I’m keen to see what sort of play style this build will require.

Given the +25% (plus vuln) damage modifier you are going to want to save up the opening strikes for big hits rather than auto attacks.

So GS obviously, but I’m thinking axe offhand as well. This might actually make full melee, GS + S/A a viable build.

You’re going to want to be able to evade/block/reflect any ranged damage, whilst being able to use your nukes from melee/PoS range.

I so hope this thing does not have an ICD…

PoS into Maul, both buffed…drool!!!

Yeah, full melee is something I’m looking forward.
Many fury source options, on pet swap, on weapon swap, on hit with GS, every 3s with RaO, it will make maul and PoS so nice, I may even get the honed axe trait in BM line for the CD reduction for the PoS, but the quickness on pet swap is so good … ahhh so many options!

Beastmaster’s Bond + Zephyr’s Speed = 15s of Fury, Swiftness, 4x Might and 3s Quickness, unreal!

Belzebu.3912:

Yeah, full melee is something I’m looking forward.
Many fury source options, on pet swap, on weapon swap, on hit with GS, every 3s with RaO, it will make maul and PoS so nice, I may even get the honed axe trait in BM line for the CD reduction for the PoS, but the quickness on pet swap is so good … ahhh so many options!

Yeh I will try honed axes as well for the aoe winters bite. That is a great buff to that skill.

Sube Dai.8496:

Yeh I will try honed axes as well for the aoe winters bite. That is a great buff to that skill.

Along with the CD reduction.. it’s a huge buff to a skill which frankly didn’t need one. Should be fun

@Cufufalating:
That is a good point about the cd reduction … would definitely help with maintaining a high up-time on chill on your opponent(s). I’m anxiously awaiting info on spirits, traps, and druid to see what in the world the new state of the Ranger will be.

I’m already uber excited about my Mesmer … but there’s several more things potentially changing for the Ranger.

Cufufalating.8479:

Sube Dai.8496:

Yeh I will try honed axes as well for the aoe winters bite. That is a great buff to that skill.

Along with the CD reduction.. it’s a huge buff to a skill which frankly didn’t need one. Should be fun

I’m curious if the -cd applies to off-hand axe or not.
However I do find changing the traitline to Beastmaster is somewhat inconvenient tbh. Old -CD and +range is bound on wilderness survival, which is the trait I usually prefer.

Toxsa.2701:

I’m curious if the -cd applies to off-hand axe or not.
However I do find changing the traitline to Beastmaster is somewhat inconvenient tbh. Old -CD and +range is bound on wilderness survival, which is the trait I usually prefer.

I’m pretty sure it will, since the trait off hand training is gone, now there is a trait that reduce the CD of torches and daggers, so the honed axe needs to reduce ALL the axes CD to compensate, btw to really compensate, honed should also increase the range of PoS and whirlwind defense like the off hand training currently do.
EDIT: I just noticed that the range of the off hand training will be baseline, so yay!

Seeing how the Sword cd reduction on my Mesmer applies to both MH and OH Sword and I doubt they’d use a different set of code for those traits’ cooldown reductions and this one … I imagine it will affect both MH and OH Axes for Rangers.

maul>pick and drop banner>maul

runeblade.7514:

I have high hopes for this build.

One thing that do worry me is thieves. This build has almost no defense against them, their blindspam, and their huge dps pressure. Thieves are the reason why zerk meta is being pushed out.

don’t stand in blind fields, you have 2 of the best longest lasting damage ignoring skills, gs being able to be very defensive as well, what do you mean need defense if all sig of stone and prot me need nerfs no one should be able to stack 12 seconds of damage immunity especially not on so much free fury and + 150% dmge buffs. your pet takes away 3 condis every 10 sec survival skills tkae away 2 each…what do you mean no defense? stop acting like ranger needs more it’s already brokenly godmode overpowered and overly easy to play, what youre asking for is an invincible build and all other classes to be free kills…want massive spammable (be honest) damage…lose survivabilty. l2p

Darksteel.8412:

…l2p…

LOL, this coming from a person who thinks LB Ranger is OP and cannot counterplay it!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/power-ranger-3

It seems a bunch of us have come up with the same idea after the livestream independently. So, this build is probably an awesome idea. I’m a bit late to the party but the main innovation I’d like to add is the use of Cavalier/Valkyrie gear in the build. It’s been touched on by LughLongArm and Sebrent, but I say it’s the right way to go. We don’t care about crit chance, since our mauls will always crit anyway and we have perma-fury. Why not invest that precision into defensive stats, helping us wear down the opponent’s stun breaks to hit them with the Burst combo for the Skirmishing variant or win the battle of attrition for the Wilderness Survival variant.

So, which is better offensively Valkyrie or Cavalier? I’ll keep things simple, damage in GW2 is decided by just multiplying all the attack power stats together then dividing by the opposing armour. So to compare the two it’s as simple as:

Valkyrie (power = 1932, ferocity = 451, crit = 1.80)
Critical = 1932*1.80 = 3477.6
Normal = 1932

Cavalier (power = 1650, ferocity = 650, crit = 1.93)
Critical = 1650*193 = 3184.5
Normal = 1650

So, not only does Valkyrie Trump Cavalier on non-crits, it also trumps Cavalier and Assassin on critical hits. For maximum stopping power, you’ll want berserker, but that exchange is far more obvious.

Defensively, things get a bit more interesting. MATHS WARNING! There’s a tl;dr at the end of the post.
Total Armour = Base toughness + Base defence (1029 for adventurers) + bonus toughness
Valkyrie = 1000+1029+650 = 2679
Cavalier = 1000+1029+932 = 2961
Which means Cavalier has ~10.5% more effective health than Valkyrie.
Effective health is a similar concept to effective power. Power, precision and ferocity are multiplicative with each other and for maximum DPS you’d need a mixture. Toughness and Vitality, as well as Toughness and healing power are likewise multiplicative with one another. In other words, each point of armour you have increases the value of each point of health. Below is a comparison of the two stat sets for each our healing sources.
(Spirit of Nature, Natural Healing, Aqua Surge’s AoE and Regenerate ignore our healing power, so Cavalier is better by default)
Heal as One = 10.5 – (6520+331*1)/6520 = 5.45% in favour of Cavalier
Troll Unguent = 10.5 – (850+331*0.12)/850 = 5.85% in favour of Cavalier
Water Spirit summon = 10.5 – (805+331*0.09)/805 = 6.83% in favour of Cavalier
Water Spirit passive = Unknown. Affected by our healing power, unless the buffed ally’s is greater.
Aqua Surge self = 10.5 – (3865+0.35*331)/3865
Water Spirit summary = Your splash doesn’t scale with healing power, are you for real?
If you’re using a healing skill other than healing spring, Cavalier is superior defensively.

But here’s the really interesting one is Healing Spring.
Initial Heal = 10.5 – (4920+331*1)/4920 = 3.80% in favour of Cavalier
Regeneration = 10.5 – (130+331*0.125)/130 = 21.30% in favour of Valkyrie
Water Leap = 10.5 – (1300+331*0.5)/1300 = 2.20% in favour of Valkyrie
Water Blast = 10.5 – (1320+331*0.2)/1320 = 5.51% in favour of Cavalier

So then… Is it possible for Valkyrie regen to ever catch up to Cavalier’s effective health?
Effective health difference = 15922*1.105 – 15922 = 1671.81
Effective healing difference:
Regeneration = (130+331*0.125) – 130*1.105 = 27.725 per second
Heal as One = (6520*1.105) – (6520+331) = 353.6
Troll Unguent = ((850*1.105) – (850+331*0.12))x10 = 495.3
Healing Spring = (4920*1.105) – (4920+331) = 185.6

For Healing Spring:
185.6 – (27.725*6) = 185.6 – 166.35 = 19.25
With leap and projectile finishers… It might be possible for Valkyrie to heal more, but by such a negligible amount in such a perfect scenario it’s not worth it.

With Heal as One/Resounding Timbre/Guard, assuming that Nature’s Voice+Guard infinite regen/swiftness stays a thing:
(27.725*16) – 353.6 = 90
So after (1671.81/90)*16 = 297.21 seconds without going down, casting Heal as One and Guard on cooldown, you’ll have matched the base effective health of Cavalier.

Of course, Cavalier’s “effective health” is only relevant against power based damage. Valkyrie will always be better against conditions.

tl;dr Valkyrie is always superior offensively, Cavalier is not proportionally similar defensively. In a condition meta toughness is less valuable and in the Wilderness Survival build you’ll have Bark Skin where that 331 extra health from heal as one might matter and someone bursting you down 100 to 0 can’t happen. So to conclude, I say the Valkyrie amulet is the way to go.

I’m failing to see how you calculated that Healing Spring favors Valkyrie. Given that Valkyrie gives you 0 toughness and 0 healing power … it does nothing to improve Healing Spring and the Leap … so it should be +0% … so I fail to see how it has a +21.30% and +2.20% in favor of Valkyrie.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m failing to see how you calculated that Healing Spring favors Valkyrie. Given that Valkyrie gives you 0 toughness and 0 healing power … it does nothing to improve Healing Spring and the Leap … so it should be +0% … so I fail to see how it has a +21.30% and +2.20% in favor of Valkyrie.

He’s talking about the PVP Valkyrie amulet, which has +331 healing power.

That being said, amulets will more than likely change alongside the roll out of the new trait system, so HotHit’s conclusions only hold in a more general sense.

Yeah, Valk is probably better in sPvP, because of the healing power, but Cavalier gear rules WvW because of the food/signet and regen meaning more with such a high armor rating (3500+). With 2HT/survival skills proccing remorseless and with Intelligence sigils, you will have tons of crits anyway. No need for any precision.

Btw, I suggested Cavalier in the 2nd post of this thread

Oh! My bad Heimskarl. I just did a CTRL+F on Valkyrie, found out Cavalier is a PvP amulet, got interested since it’s similar to the PvP Valkyrie amulet and started investigating. I have nothing to say about WvW.

As for PvE, well… Until we know more about the upcoming content, I say run what you’re comfortable with and I’ll do some calcs if it turns out extra defence might be more worthwhile than the marginal bonus damage we’d gain from precision.

Sebrent.3625:

Sebrent.3625:

I’m failing to see how you calculated that Healing Spring favors Valkyrie. Given that Valkyrie gives you 0 toughness and 0 healing power … it does nothing to improve Healing Spring and the Leap … so it should be +0% … so I fail to see how it has a +21.30% and +2.20% in favor of Valkyrie.

He’s talking about the PVP Valkyrie amulet, which has +331 healing power.

That being said, amulets will more than likely change alongside the roll out of the new trait system, so HotHit’s conclusions only hold in a more general sense.

Yes, I did mean it in terms of the PvP Amulet. I’m sorry I should have specified that to begin with. I will definitely recalculate this when we know more specifics. But for now, what I can say for definite is if the percent difference between the two toughness values is reduced, the Valkyrie amulet would be better relatively. If you added runes of the Brawler to the build for instance, Valkyrie would better comparatively.

For runes, I’ll be using Defender in WvW, because its awesome with GS, but I would also like to try out Evasion for a bit more aggressive play. I have used Rage in the past with Cavalier and it is quite good too, Pack would also be a good one and either of those are available in sPvP. Altruism would also be pretty nice if you were using the shout variant 6/0/6/0/6 with “HaO” for the heal/regen/swiftness/might/fury/OS on use. I think the Valkyrie would be nice with that due to the healing power scaling nicely with regen.

Maybe something like this with these traits.

I really like that variant, the heal becomes very powerful, 100 health per second better than TU.

N00b here and I’m not sure I understand. The build reads as if we can have all those traits at once but we don’t have that many points to spend.

The build is designed for after the specialisation patch hits, so you cannot currently use it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The build is designed for after the specialisation patch hits, so you cannot currently use it.

Oh ok thanks, I was kind of worried it was like a hypothetical build.

ChubbyWarlord.6037:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The build is designed for after the specialisation patch hits, so you cannot currently use it.

Oh ok thanks, I was kind of worried it was like a hypothetical build.

Does that mean we get 18 trait points to spend after update (sorry haven’t been closely following)?

Archon.6480:

ChubbyWarlord.6037:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The build is designed for after the specialisation patch hits, so you cannot currently use it.

Oh ok thanks, I was kind of worried it was like a hypothetical build.

Does that mean we get 18 trait points to spend after update (sorry haven’t been closely following)?

Its more of 3 full trait lines, you wont be able to split like 2-2-2-6-6 but you’ll be able to 6-6-6 in 3 out of 6 trait lines (including elite the trait line)

LughLongArm.5460:

Archon.6480:

ChubbyWarlord.6037:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The build is designed for after the specialisation patch hits, so you cannot currently use it.

Oh ok thanks, I was kind of worried it was like a hypothetical build.

Does that mean we get 18 trait points to spend after update (sorry haven’t been closely following)?

Its more of 3 full trait lines, you wont be able to split like 2-2-2-6-6 but you’ll be able to 6-6-6 in 3 out of 6 trait lines (including elite the trait line)

That’s fantastic, I think. Just wait till you see my 6-6-6 build! … Erm, wait. That sounds wrong…

It does lose some diversity, but the builds will be better, imo.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It does lose some diversity, but the builds will be better, imo.

probably better yes, but definately much more focused. It doesn’t look like it so far but I’m really hoping there are no hidden nerfs. I don’t want to lose any of the ground we’ve made up in terms of DPS