Guild Wars 2

Vizardlorde.8243:

1-If you trait for marksmanship you can have a ranged cripple with any weapon
2- Maul is AoE while Trueshot just pierces
3- The cooldown makes it undesireable despite how great a skill it is.

Yep, a cripple on any weapon … with a 30s ICD and only when the target is below a health threshold … as opposed to a 2s cripple on an 0.75s auto-attack as long as long as there is something behind the first target you hit. Not even close.

Yep, Maul is an AOE that melee range. Trushot pierces and has 1,200 range … and a lower cooldown.

Yes, the cooldown on their barrage is quite long. I have the least issue with their barrage.

I really just think True Shots cooldown needs to be increased/doubled. Other than that, again, I don’t really have an issue with it, although I acknowledge that we all feel a bit like our toes have been stepped on.

As far as balance goes, we can’t make any calls, there are 6 (7 with revenant) more elite specializations to announce, and skills/traits aren’t even in their final stages to the point where ANet has to repeatedly mention that they are not final over and over and over.

I think that once the “well screw you, you handed out what we wanted on our LB forever and maybe not forceably being attached to this idiot-kitten pet would be nice too” has passed, people will feel the same.

Unless Druid is an absolute kitten show, which it very well could be. Then it will be torch and pitchfork time, now now.

I think everybody should stop and ask themselves… how do you think Mesmers are feeling right now? I mean, talk about lackluster by comparison….

they also got a ranged skillshot =( how ive longed for that on my LB. /criesinacorner

Something tells me the druid is going to end up like a staff guardian :|

From what I saw you will have to stay in place to execute True Shot while Rapid Fire does let you move AND tracks through stealth. It is also a very easily dodged attack , which I don’t see people having issues killing. Their Barrage-like-skill will be on a 60s cd while we’ll be able to reduce it by 66% if we want with Quick Draw, resulting an 8 seconds Barrage.

I can see Dragonhunters suffering quite a bit on mobility side with the lack of swiftness. You absolutely need mobility in a game like Conquest and there is not so much for guardians sadly. They will be great for PvE however.

I know it sucks they have skills that would work so well with our class, but hey if they didn’t give anything good to Dragonhunter then why would they bother giving a Longbow to Guardian?

I think we should just stop crying and wait when it actually comes out.

I can imagine melee warriors having a fun time trying to close the gap on a Dragonhunter.

Sube Dai.8496:

Something tells me the druid is going to end up like a staff guardian :|

That’s OK with me to an extent.

Puncture Shot. How often are there 2 targets in line? Not very often. I much rather have extra damage at max range.

True Shot. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it with Maul. Compare it with Rapid Fire. I much rather have Rapid Fire.

Deflecting Shot. A projectile that destroys projectiles? Really? Are you even serious? Give me Hunter’s Shot any day.

Symbol of Energy. Ok this is pretty excellent, but it’s another ground-targetted skill. Maybe I rather have Point Blank Shot though.

Hunter’s Ward. Ok this thing is just way better than Barrage, but at least it has a crazy long cooldown.

Ranger gets 1500 range, which is far superior to 1200 range. Maybe their arrows will again be side-stepable. Ranger arrows won’t.

Their traps are just way superior to ours in every way except the cooldown. I rather have all the power in a single trap than in several traps over time.

Do take into account that they’re marketing their expansion. They need to impress or people won’t buy it. But just play Dragon Hunter if you prefer it. They just made a petless Ranger with heavy armor. It can’t be seen as anything but good if you think this is the embodiment of everything Rangers have been asking for over the years.

Holland.9351:

Puncture Shot. How often are there 2 targets in line? Not very often. I much rather have extra damage at max range.

True Shot. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it with Maul. Compare it with Rapid Fire. I much rather have Rapid Fire.

Deflecting Shot. A projectile that destroys projectiles? Really? Are you even serious? Give me Hunter’s Shot any day.

Symbol of Energy. Ok this is pretty excellent, but it’s another ground-targetted skill. Maybe I rather have Point Blank Shot though.

Hunter’s Ward. Ok this thing is just way better than Barrage, but at least it has a crazy long cooldown.

Ranger gets 1500 range, which is far superior to 1200 range. Maybe their arrows will again be side-stepable. Ranger arrows won’t.

Their traps are just way superior to ours in every way except the cooldown. I rather have all the power in a single trap than in several traps over time.

Do take into account that they’re marketing their expansion. They need to impress or people won’t buy it. But just play Dragon Hunter if you prefer it. They just made a petless Ranger with heavy armor. It can’t be seen as anything but good if you think this is the embodiment of everything Rangers have been asking for over the years.

Puncture Shot: They don’t need to be in a line; one needs to stand behind another. If one diagnoly behind the other, it will bounce. The main criteria is that one is behind the other for the projectile to bounce. Just think of it like SB auto attack on thief.

True Shot: I wouldn’t compare it with anything, tbh. It should stand on its own, which it does. People compare 100blades and RF a lot too, but the reasoning is just as flawed, because the skills differ too much from each other.

Deflecting Shot: The theme of the expansion seems to be anti-projectile thusfar, if the skills we’ve seen thusfar on the elite specs and the Revenant are any indication.

Sebrent.3625:

Watched the video …
Especially since I play Mesmer and Ranger most of the time … that 0.75s auto-attack with a 2s cripple if there is anything around me for it to bounce on …. is ridiculous.

Now, not only is the Guardian able to easily mix it up in melee … but they can start a zerg fight by pinging people from 1,200 range and stacking ridiculous amounts of cripple on 2 per shot.

TrueShot is not cool either … it is a ranged maul … with a base 4s cooldown … that can be traited to give 3s of stability … what … the …

This bugs me the most on my Ranger.
On my Mesmer I’m just happy I’ve got a nice kitten nal of reflects coming down the pipeline.

Will have to wait and see what Ranger gets … has me somewhat hopeful for our traps and their rework.

3s for each target hit, it pierces too lol xD

Sebrent.3625:

I can’t watch twitch from work, but looking at dulfy:

• http://dulfy.net/2015/05/08/gw2-dragonhunter-ready-up-livestream-notes/

Longbow skills

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-longbow-skills1.jpg

Why is their longbow hitting for solid damage regardless of range, piercing without traits, applying cripple if it hits more than 1 target, and fire every 0.75s as opposed to our 1.00s (0.90s traited). That doesn’t look right. Is there some aftercast that at least makes it more than the 0.75s listed?

Trueshot #2 and Deflecting Shot #3 both look like they’d hurt … what is up with 4s cooldown. I’m hoping that is just a “still in development” issue. It has the same cast time as the auto-attack so that currently looks like skill that you simply cast every time it’s not on cooldown. Not very skillful but looks very effective … more effective low skill-floor crap for Guardians. Deflecting Shot is in a similar position with its fact cast time, still decent damage and affecting any attacks since it’s a blind and projectile destroyer.

Symbol of Energy … this seems okay. I’m just amazed that this weapon has so many hard-hitting skills with such low cooldowns.

Hunter’s Ward … I’ll need to see the video to see the damage on this, but that final damage looks painful. At least this isn’t on some less than 20s cooldown. Bit annoyed that it not only traps but cripples too. Stepping on our toes there a bit.

Traps

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-trap-skills2.jpg

These all hit hard. We’ll have to see how our own traps stack up to these once they are done with the rework there. Hopefully we’ll be on par. Nothing too horrible here except a Zerk Guardian with 3 traps stacked could ruin someone’s day pretty darn quickly. If you’re full melee, you might cry given they can stack on their traps and pew pew you with their new longbow.

Traits:

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-traits1.jpg

Minor Traits
Look fine. Nothing to write home about.

Adept Traits
Bleed on traps, looks lackluster, zealot’s aggression and soaring devastation could be sick if paired with other things. We’ll come back to Zealot’s Aggression.

Master Traits
Hunter’s Determination gives 3s stability per target hit by a skill that hits hard, casts quickly, and is on a 4s cooldown … so 3s of stability every 4.75s …. really?! I’m hoping that’s one of those “still in development” things that will be getting tweaked.

Bulwark looks fine.

Dulled senses isn’t too bad … until you look at the synergy with the grandmaster.

Grandmaster Traits
Hunter’s Fortification doesn’t look too bad given how long the virtues cooldowns currently are.

Heavy Light just looks ridiculous when you pair it with the other factors. First, now they want to be in melee with that Longbow because (1) it doesn’t do any less damage in melee (2) knockback is an interrupt … interrupt every 7s just from attacking (3) that knockback synergizes with dulled senses to cripple you (4) that cripple from dulled senses synergizes with zealot’s aggression for extra damage … now back to their minor that does +10% dmg at >= 600 range … or you can be crippled, constantly interrupted, and taking +10% dmg from them any time they get you within 300 range.

Big Game Hunter could hurt, but there are other traits in game that resemble it … I’m just curious about this stacking with other +% dmg traits … as that would get to pretty darn ridiculous levels.

• Big Game Hunter + Fiery Wrath + Zealous Blade + Symbolic Avenger = 15% + 10% + 5% + 20% = +50% damage … from two specializations

I think at the very least some numbers need to be tweaked here … math isn’t that hard.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQFADC4PAWTA-TpgWAAw+DbZAA

assuming carrions in pvp, longbow numbers generally way higher.
true shot requires you to stand in place during casting, and without it, the general damage would be pretty low.

not only that but ranger has pet while doing that dmg.

essentially, dont look at the numbers, you dont know what stats they have.

The devs even mentioned the damage, so apparently it is all about the numbers.

Rangers also have this issue where they don’t want a pet, as it is useless in a lot of situations…so DH lacking a pet is actually a very good thing.

Now we just wait for whatever class gets the shortbow and does it so much better than ranger (yes, I know thieves SB already owns rangers).

phys.7689:

Sebrent.3625:

I can’t watch twitch from work, but looking at dulfy:

• http://dulfy.net/2015/05/08/gw2-dragonhunter-ready-up-livestream-notes/

Longbow skills

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-longbow-skills1.jpg

Why is their longbow hitting for solid damage regardless of range, piercing without traits, applying cripple if it hits more than 1 target, and fire every 0.75s as opposed to our 1.00s (0.90s traited). That doesn’t look right. Is there some aftercast that at least makes it more than the 0.75s listed?

Trueshot #2 and Deflecting Shot #3 both look like they’d hurt … what is up with 4s cooldown. I’m hoping that is just a “still in development” issue. It has the same cast time as the auto-attack so that currently looks like skill that you simply cast every time it’s not on cooldown. Not very skillful but looks very effective … more effective low skill-floor crap for Guardians. Deflecting Shot is in a similar position with its fact cast time, still decent damage and affecting any attacks since it’s a blind and projectile destroyer.

Symbol of Energy … this seems okay. I’m just amazed that this weapon has so many hard-hitting skills with such low cooldowns.

Hunter’s Ward … I’ll need to see the video to see the damage on this, but that final damage looks painful. At least this isn’t on some less than 20s cooldown. Bit annoyed that it not only traps but cripples too. Stepping on our toes there a bit.

Traps

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-trap-skills2.jpg

These all hit hard. We’ll have to see how our own traps stack up to these once they are done with the rework there. Hopefully we’ll be on par. Nothing too horrible here except a Zerk Guardian with 3 traps stacked could ruin someone’s day pretty darn quickly. If you’re full melee, you might cry given they can stack on their traps and pew pew you with their new longbow.

Traits:

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-traits1.jpg

Minor Traits
Look fine. Nothing to write home about.

Adept Traits
Bleed on traps, looks lackluster, zealot’s aggression and soaring devastation could be sick if paired with other things. We’ll come back to Zealot’s Aggression.

Master Traits
Hunter’s Determination gives 3s stability per target hit by a skill that hits hard, casts quickly, and is on a 4s cooldown … so 3s of stability every 4.75s …. really?! I’m hoping that’s one of those “still in development” things that will be getting tweaked.

Bulwark looks fine.

Dulled senses isn’t too bad … until you look at the synergy with the grandmaster.

Grandmaster Traits
Hunter’s Fortification doesn’t look too bad given how long the virtues cooldowns currently are.

Heavy Light just looks ridiculous when you pair it with the other factors. First, now they want to be in melee with that Longbow because (1) it doesn’t do any less damage in melee (2) knockback is an interrupt … interrupt every 7s just from attacking (3) that knockback synergizes with dulled senses to cripple you (4) that cripple from dulled senses synergizes with zealot’s aggression for extra damage … now back to their minor that does +10% dmg at >= 600 range … or you can be crippled, constantly interrupted, and taking +10% dmg from them any time they get you within 300 range.

Big Game Hunter could hurt, but there are other traits in game that resemble it … I’m just curious about this stacking with other +% dmg traits … as that would get to pretty darn ridiculous levels.

• Big Game Hunter + Fiery Wrath + Zealous Blade + Symbolic Avenger = 15% + 10% + 5% + 20% = +50% damage … from two specializations

I think at the very least some numbers need to be tweaked here … math isn’t that hard.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQFADC4PAWTA-TpgWAAw+DbZAA

assuming carrions in pvp, longbow numbers generally way higher.
true shot requires you to stand in place during casting, and without it, the general damage would be pretty low.

not only that but ranger has pet while doing that dmg.

.

You mean that pet that is down in a few seconds in WvW? That pet?

Welcome to “Class Homogenization”.

I did not play GW1 so maybe this was a thing there or worked differently. However, one thing I’ve come to learn over the years is that each class ends up with the others abilities sooner or later.

Seems odd to me but whatever I guess.

Yes the Dragon Huggers will wipe the floor with us.
The true shot is massive damage in one shot. Our RF is 10 shots that usually don’t land even half of them.
Bouncing arrows + cripple + 10% dmg in crippled + 10% damage when more than 600 units + Fire CC… Mmm… Something does not really fit here with we compare it to the poor ranger and its minion, i mean pet.
1200 to 1500 is not that big of step. 300 units is almost a range for a melee weapon.

I play guardian as well and i can say: the traps looks amazing but the guard has better mobility with meditations. So hope for medi-guards with longbow, that can pop up anywhere in the map and pewpew you with one shot.
So i’ll became a Dragon Hugger and be the nightmare of any fellow mates.

Pretty sur the dev said he was using an assassin amulet for crit chance and not a carion amulet. What’s scarry is the burn numbers which will probably be toned down a lot.

Otherwise, I’m pretty sure the PvE (read dungeon) meta guard will use Dragon Hunter elite spec. And I’m also pretty sure that this meta won’t use LB nor traps. The damage potential is awesome.

anduriell.6280:

Yes the Dragon Huggers will wipe the floor with us.
The true shot is massive damage in one shot. Our RF is 10 shots that usually don’t land even half of them.
Bouncing arrows + cripple + 10% dmg in crippled + 10% damage when more than 600 units + Fire CC… Mmm… Something does not really fit here with we compare it to the poor ranger and its minion, i mean pet.
1200 to 1500 is not that big of step. 300 units is almost a range for a melee weapon.

I play guardian as well and i can say: the traps looks amazing but the guard has better mobility with meditations. So hope for medi-guards with longbow, that can pop up anywhere in the map and pewpew you with one shot.
So i’ll became a Dragon Hugger and be the nightmare of any fellow mates.

That meditation mobility plus wings are going to make them a pain to pin down. I’m going to give DH a shot as well, but I always seem to come back to my ranger.

Sube Dai.8496:

Something tells me the druid is going to end up like a staff guardian :|

With our luck, yes. The Specializations are about “support and control” so I expect to be planting flowers that heal people for 10hp for 2-5 and 1 being loot stick.

Also, That Light trap is insane. For the longest time Rangers asked for a way to reveal Thieves. We got it, on a skill that needs a target..

Guard gets it on an AoE with 25 vuln. best part is they can drop it on a Shadow Refuge. But why do that when you can Whirling Wrath, or Pull them out?

Well … on the bright side of things … we just got Chronomancer trait information from Jon Peters in the Mesmer subforum and I feel like those traits are >= the DH traits …

… so happy about that (I do play Mesmer too)

… and more hopeful that the Ranger Druid specialization will be >= DH

Sebrent.3625:

Well … on the bright side of things … we just got Chronomancer trait information from Jon Peters in the Mesmer subforum and I feel like those traits are >= the DH traits …

… so happy about that (I do play Mesmer too)

… and more hopeful that the Ranger Druid specialization will be >= DH

Meh – they will all be approximate and none will be better than what the other class has. At first I was irked that the Guardian got a bow, then traps. After watching it over the weekend again and taking another look it doesn’t seem that bad. In fact I’m like yeah, ok – its not the same.

@Crapgame:
I’m taking the current classes into account, not just the specs.

Guardian’s DH definitely gave them even more power … especially with their damage coefficients … but Guardian has always been solidly part of every meta in the game.

Mesmer’s Chrono just helped fill some areas we’ve been begging for something in for a while … might be enough to help actually be part of more metas.

Aerathnor.8305:

That meditation mobility plus wings are going to make them a pain to pin down. I’m going to give DH a shot as well, but I always seem to come back to my ranger.

ahahaha pin down you say. It doesn’t seem you are having in account:

• Guard is a heavy armor melee oriented class.
• Guard has the GS that give much hate around.
• Guard also apply burning for 300-400/tic and with the new change you will suffer that hate as well.
• Guard can heal 2K life with every meditation. You have a medi that can spawn every 16 secs that clean one condition and do 2K burning AoE of pure hate.
• Now Dragon Hater will have also Longbow with our skills revisioned and improved so pewpew the hate will be easier than ever.
• The virtues are much better now. The Justice is AoE hate condensed, while the Courage is perfect for passive Hate. All that not talking about the wings that brings the hate from above.

You should think the Dragon Hater as the class will free the ranger from the community hate. When someone hit you with a tank from 1200 units away i don’t think you will mind much the RF.

All this said, i love my new ranger specialisation: Dragon Hater. Shame we need to be a guard as well.

maybe the QQ topic meta will move on to DH and finally leave us power rangers alone!

anduriell.6280:

Yes the Dragon Huggers will wipe the floor with us.
The true shot is massive damage in one shot. Our RF is 10 shots that usually don’t land even half of them.
Bouncing arrows + cripple + 10% dmg in crippled + 10% damage when more than 600 units + Fire CC… Mmm… Something does not really fit here with we compare it to the poor ranger and its minion, i mean pet.
1200 to 1500 is not that big of step. 300 units is almost a range for a melee weapon.

I play guardian as well and i can say: the traps looks amazing but the guard has better mobility with meditations. So hope for medi-guards with longbow, that can pop up anywhere in the map and pewpew you with one shot.
So i’ll became a Dragon Hugger and be the nightmare of any fellow mates.

I was thinking bout deflecting shot in your face everytime rapid fire is up, will it destroy all arrows or just 1? nobody knows maybe but if it’s all then we are totally screwed trying to use longbow against them.

I’m pretty sure It’ll deflect all projectiles, but remember it’s a mouse-targetted skill. So they have to aim it manually in the direction they want it to go.

Manekk.6981:

anduriell.6280:

Yes the Dragon Huggers will wipe the floor with us.
The true shot is massive damage in one shot. Our RF is 10 shots that usually don’t land even half of them.
Bouncing arrows + cripple + 10% dmg in crippled + 10% damage when more than 600 units + Fire CC… Mmm… Something does not really fit here with we compare it to the poor ranger and its minion, i mean pet.
1200 to 1500 is not that big of step. 300 units is almost a range for a melee weapon.

I play guardian as well and i can say: the traps looks amazing but the guard has better mobility with meditations. So hope for medi-guards with longbow, that can pop up anywhere in the map and pewpew you with one shot.
So i’ll became a Dragon Hugger and be the nightmare of any fellow mates.

I was thinking bout deflecting shot in your face everytime rapid fire is up, will it destroy all arrows or just 1? nobody knows maybe but if it’s all then we are totally screwed trying to use longbow against them.

Since it’s a skill shot, it’s likely all projectiles that it crosses while traveling will be destroyed. I think projectile heavy builds like the longbow ranger are going to see some increased counterplay with the expansion and revamped trait system. For example, Mesmer is getting some improvement to their projectile reflect trait (on dodge instead of Distortion), making reflection more accesible for them, and the Tides of Time shield skill will block projectiles during its travel from and back to the caster. Speaking of traveling walls that block projectiles, let’s also not forget that the Revenant too gets a projectile blocking wall on their hammer that they can send forward by pressing the skill button a second time.

Manekk.6981:

anduriell.6280:

Yes the Dragon Huggers will wipe the floor with us.
The true shot is massive damage in one shot. Our RF is 10 shots that usually don’t land even half of them.
Bouncing arrows + cripple + 10% dmg in crippled + 10% damage when more than 600 units + Fire CC… Mmm… Something does not really fit here with we compare it to the poor ranger and its minion, i mean pet.
1200 to 1500 is not that big of step. 300 units is almost a range for a melee weapon.

I play guardian as well and i can say: the traps looks amazing but the guard has better mobility with meditations. So hope for medi-guards with longbow, that can pop up anywhere in the map and pewpew you with one shot.
So i’ll became a Dragon Hugger and be the nightmare of any fellow mates.

I was thinking bout deflecting shot in your face everytime rapid fire is up, will it destroy all arrows or just 1? nobody knows maybe but if it’s all then we are totally screwed trying to use longbow against them.

With the amount of Guardians that bring Wall of Reflection to WvW zerg fights, they’ve already been the anti-LB Ranger for a while.

Have you ever witnessed a large zerg whereas several Guardians, from all sides, throw down Wall of Reflections and bounce the crap out of Rangers arrows?

For the few short seconds the ping pong effect is rather amusing to witness.

Rangers should start carrying offhand axes to reflect dragon hunter arrows :S

not too happy seeing traps on a different class. It was something that set my trapper apart :/

Well, look at it this way, you can now partner with a DH trapper and your traps will be even more effective due to the CC nature, spike damage and vulnerability.

Holland.9351:

True Shot. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it with Maul. Compare it with Rapid Fire. I much rather have Rapid Fire.

People compare it with Maul since Maul and True Shot have almost the same damage, the same recharge and the same activation time. But True Shot is 1,200 range and pierces.

In the video, TS tool tip was like 1600 damage with Carrion Amulet. With Zerker amulet, power runes and traits, Maul does 1500 odd.

True Shot does more damage, near 10x the range and 2s less CD as Maul. I’m really hoping everything else gets a balance pass if these specialisation skills stay as is. 4s CD on TS is pretty absurd when compared to a lot of other skills.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

In the video, TS tool tip was like 1600 damage with Carrion Amulet. With Zerker amulet, power runes and traits, Maul does 1500 odd.

True Shot does more damage, near 10x the range and 2s less CD as Maul. I’m really hoping everything else gets a balance pass if these specialisation skills stay as is. 4s CD on TS is pretty absurd when compared to a lot of other skills.

maul does 5 stacks of vuln,
AOE (aoe which is better than pierce)
traits down with 20% recast
5 targets
and doesnt require you to stand in place

if true shot is on a long cool down, the weaponset will basically be a trash weapon.
slow AA – weak base damage
ranger GS=828 per second
guardian LB= 765 per second
rng LB >500=810 per second
rng LB >1000 = 912 per second

you cant look at one skill, you have to look at the whole weapon set.

true shot basically makes achieving max DPS on DH more skill based, and counterable.

this doesnt even include read the wind attack speed increase of 10%, and, you got a pet.

essentially, stop looking at one big number and going crazy

The bold is me;

phys.7689:

AOE (aoe which is better than pierce)
AOE at melee range, pierce at 1200 range is potentially far more powerful

traits down with 20% recast
And it’s still 0.75s longer CD

5 targets
Same

and doesnt require you to stand in place
Nor does it hit if you do, which TS can because its ranged

if true shot is on a long cool down, the weaponset will basically be a trash weapon.

Serious? Because if a DH AA’s your pet, he will have perma cripple on you and your pet. Then 75% up time of stability, assuming he doesn’t hit both you and your pet, or anyone else with the pierce on TS, which is also a finisher. He’ll have near perma unremovable burning on you too at this point. He’ll be deflecting your RF too, its on the same CD. Plus a couple of AoEs to round it out. Don’t forget the KB every 2nd TS activation too from traits.

It’s pretty good.

you cant look at one skill, you have to look at the whole weapon set….
…essentially, stop looking at one big number and going crazy

Wasn’t going crazy at all. Just comparing the two skills, and that comparison clearly favors the DH. I’m only annoyed because DH has a lot of things that Rangers have been asking for, forever. And it seems it is even better. I’m not going crazy over it, but I think it does need some balance work and an increase to TS’s CD would suffice.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The bold is me;

phys.7689:

AOE (aoe which is better than pierce)
AOE at melee range, pierce at 1200 range is potentially far more powerful

traits down with 20% recast
And it’s still 0.75s longer CD

5 targets
Same

and doesnt require you to stand in place
Nor does it hit if you do, which TS can because its ranged

if true shot is on a long cool down, the weaponset will basically be a trash weapon.

Serious? Because if a DH AA’s your pet, he will have perma cripple on you and your pet. Then 75% up time of stability, assuming he doesn’t hit both you and your pet, or anyone else with the pierce on TS, which is also a finisher. He’ll have near perma unremovable burning on you too at this point. He’ll be deflecting your RF too, its on the same CD. Plus a couple of AoEs to round it out. Don’t forget the KB every 2nd TS activation too from traits.

It’s pretty good.

you cant look at one skill, you have to look at the whole weapon set….
…essentially, stop looking at one big number and going crazy

Wasn’t going crazy at all. Just comparing the two skills, and that comparison clearly favors the DH. I’m only annoyed because DH has a lot of things that Rangers have been asking for, forever. And it seems it is even better. I’m not going crazy over it, but I think it does need some balance work and an increase to TS’s CD would suffice.

Ranger basically has a lot of hits of less individual importance. This makes it actually harder to defend against.
if you dodge true shot, his dps takes a large hit, if you interuppt it, it actually goes on longer cool down than if he missed, and he takes a large dps loss.
very interuptible with a 3/4th cast time.
if he cant land true shot, his dps is trash, if he only hits it half the time, his dps is trash.

if you make the cast time long, you basically make the weapon that has a higher skill cap/risk to reward ratio lower damage than a ranger with no pet even when he plays perfectly, and his enemy takes all dmg.
that would be bad design imo.

im not saying it isnt good, im saying its where it needs to be, double that cooldown, and now its weak, and you have to play harder to achieve that weakness.

Ranger always will be a 2nd class citizen

It’s not so much that Ranger “is a 2nd class citizen” so much that Ele/Guard/War have had solid positions in the meta of every game mode. With the large changes coming from the Specialization System, we’ll have to see where the dust settles.

Sandzibar.5134:

it did look like Dragon Hunter takes everything a ranger can do.. but do it better and with more team utility (still a guardian after all at its core), and without the pet.

autoattack snare on 2 enemies? dmg comparable to power ranger. no pet limitation. just missing 1500 range and projectile velocity ranger gets.

I look forward to seeing how it gets balanced with ranger in mind.

Could someone confirm that rangers are keeping the 1500 range? Since nowhere on new traits u can see the extra 300 range added in traits, nor was it said it would be baseline?

nacario.9417:

Could someone confirm that rangers are keeping the 1500 range? Since nowhere on new traits u can see the extra 300 range added in traits, nor was it said it would be baseline?

They did confirm Longbow 1500 range will be baseline when they were showing off the warrior traits and people kept asking in twitch chat.

Sebrent.3625:

It’s not so much that Ranger “is a 2nd class citizen” so much that Ele/Guard/War have had solid positions in the meta of every game mode. With the large changes coming from the Specialization System, we’ll have to see where the dust settles.

I’m not sure I’d agree with regards to Guardians and solid positions. Retail and first year after launch yes. Since then everyone else does what we do better. Look at the golden child Ele. They bunker 10x better than any Guardian could ever hope to. I think most of us that played at launch learned a lot time ago and drifted towards other classes – hence me playing the Ranger.

I do agree that we all have to wait it out regardless of what class we play. I think Arena Net will get it right with some and miss on others. With the miss being that they didn’t consider something or the way we players find ways to abuse or misuse their original design and Nerfs will commence

I’m still waiting to see what WvW changes are coming to keep ‘that’ player base engaged and playing. To include server matching, player portals, statistics, and everything else tied to PvP. Outside looking in I see some class change and new abilities but that will keep ones attention only so long…

phys.7689:

…Ranger basically has a lot of hits of less individual importance. This makes it actually harder to defend against….

…im not saying it isnt good, im saying its where it needs to be, double that cooldown, and now its weak, and you have to play harder to achieve that weakness…

Unless you are a warrior traited into Defense and you get Spiked Armour as a minor, or a Guard/DH with retaliation uptime.

I don’t mean they should double the CD, but 4s is too short. I would add 2s to it to make it 6s and perhaps make the cast 1s instead of 0.75. That would be enough to make it easier to rupt and cut the stability uptime to 42%.

Sebrent.3625:

I can’t watch twitch from work, but looking at dulfy:

• http://dulfy.net/2015/05/08/gw2-dragonhunter-ready-up-livestream-notes/

Longbow skills

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-longbow-skills1.jpg

Why is their longbow hitting for solid damage regardless of range, piercing without traits, applying cripple if it hits more than 1 target, and fire every 0.75s as opposed to our 1.00s (0.90s traited). That doesn’t look right. Is there some aftercast that at least makes it more than the 0.75s listed?

Trueshot #2 and Deflecting Shot #3 both look like they’d hurt … what is up with 4s cooldown. I’m hoping that is just a “still in development” issue. It has the same cast time as the auto-attack so that currently looks like skill that you simply cast every time it’s not on cooldown. Not very skillful but looks very effective … more effective low skill-floor crap for Guardians. Deflecting Shot is in a similar position with its fact cast time, still decent damage and affecting any attacks since it’s a blind and projectile destroyer.

Symbol of Energy … this seems okay. I’m just amazed that this weapon has so many hard-hitting skills with such low cooldowns.

Hunter’s Ward … I’ll need to see the video to see the damage on this, but that final damage looks painful. At least this isn’t on some less than 20s cooldown. Bit annoyed that it not only traps but cripples too. Stepping on our toes there a bit.

Traps

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-trap-skills2.jpg

These all hit hard. We’ll have to see how our own traps stack up to these once they are done with the rework there. Hopefully we’ll be on par. Nothing too horrible here except a Zerk Guardian with 3 traps stacked could ruin someone’s day pretty darn quickly. If you’re full melee, you might cry given they can stack on their traps and pew pew you with their new longbow.

Traits:

• http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-dragonhunter-traits1.jpg

Minor Traits
Look fine. Nothing to write home about.

Adept Traits
Bleed on traps, looks lackluster, zealot’s aggression and soaring devastation could be sick if paired with other things. We’ll come back to Zealot’s Aggression.

Master Traits
Hunter’s Determination gives 3s stability per target hit by a skill that hits hard, casts quickly, and is on a 4s cooldown … so 3s of stability every 4.75s …. really?! I’m hoping that’s one of those “still in development” things that will be getting tweaked.

Bulwark looks fine.

Dulled senses isn’t too bad … until you look at the synergy with the grandmaster.

Grandmaster Traits
Hunter’s Fortification doesn’t look too bad given how long the virtues cooldowns currently are.

Heavy Light just looks ridiculous when you pair it with the other factors. First, now they want to be in melee with that Longbow because (1) it doesn’t do any less damage in melee (2) knockback is an interrupt … interrupt every 7s just from attacking (3) that knockback synergizes with dulled senses to cripple you (4) that cripple from dulled senses synergizes with zealot’s aggression for extra damage … now back to their minor that does +10% dmg at >= 600 range … or you can be crippled, constantly interrupted, and taking +10% dmg from them any time they get you within 300 range.

Big Game Hunter could hurt, but there are other traits in game that resemble it … I’m just curious about this stacking with other +% dmg traits … as that would get to pretty darn ridiculous levels.

• Big Game Hunter + Fiery Wrath + Zealous Blade + Symbolic Avenger = 15% + 10% + 5% + 20% = +50% damage … from two specializations

I think at the very least some numbers need to be tweaked here … math isn’t that hard.

Funny thing is those Guardian whiners are crying about DH being useless LOL…
They can potentially be a better ranger class and yet they’re complaining about it being too weak.

Also, your math is wrong. It’s cumulative not additive.
The correct number of damage bonus is 59.4% damage bonus, which is HUGE.

Toxsa.2701:

Funny thing is those Guardian whiners are crying about DH being useless LOL…
They can potentially be a better ranger class and yet they’re complaining about it being too weak.

I don’t believe that is what they are whining about if truth be told. I think they are trying to grasp why the development team gave them traps and some extra mobility via a leap. Of course they are still boggled by the overall name. Then again, maybe we are just a whiney player base.

anduriell.6280:

Aerathnor.8305:

That meditation mobility plus wings are going to make them a pain to pin down. I’m going to give DH a shot as well, but I always seem to come back to my ranger.

ahahaha pin down you say. It doesn’t seem you are having in account:

• Guard is a heavy armor melee oriented class.
• Guard has the GS that give much hate around.
• Guard also apply burning for 300-400/tic and with the new change you will suffer that hate as well.
• Guard can heal 2K life with every meditation. You have a medi that can spawn every 16 secs that clean one condition and do 2K burning AoE of pure hate.
• Now Dragon Hater will have also Longbow with our skills revisioned and improved so pewpew the hate will be easier than ever.
• The virtues are much better now. The Justice is AoE hate condensed, while the Courage is perfect for passive Hate. All that not talking about the wings that brings the hate from above.

You should think the Dragon Hater as the class will free the ranger from the community hate. When someone hit you with a tank from 1200 units away i don’t think you will mind much the RF.

All this said, i love my new ranger specialisation: Dragon Hater. Shame we need to be a guard as well.

I played a Medi guardian back in the hambow meta before I drifted off to do WvW. I always hated that scepter was the ranged option for them so I’m quite excited about DH as I really loved the build (I hear it’s better now, but haven’t tried it in a while).

Like I said, I’m going to give DH a go in WvW, but I’m thinking it will need a cele load out over zerk as medi guard will be losing the block from focus offhand making their defense be completely blind/healing/aegis based While my ranger had block, stealth, and evade. We’ll see once it goes live though, it may be perfectly viable in full zerk.

Crapgame.6519 about Guardians in the meta:

No doubt about the ELementalist … friggin golden child.

• sPvP … we only have 5 in a group … 2 should be Elementalist … on most tourney-level teams … there’s a red flag
• PvE meta … we have only 5 in a group … 2 should be Elementalist … most, if not all, the current record holders have 2+ Elementalists … there’s a red flag.
• WvW meta … Can provide boons, CC, counter CC, condi cleanse, direct and condition damage at the same time, large amounts of AOE, and still be mobile … useful both for zerging and roaming … one of the 4 classes of GWEN

As far as Guardian

• Not as used as Elementalist, but still quite useful in sPvP and taken more often than Ranger and others.
• Always loved in PvE. Solid dps, reflects, boons, etc.
• WvW … an essential part of GWEN … in fact, most are happy with just GWE … <sarcasm> bench those necros … why should they be relevant </sarcasm>

@Crapgame.6519 again about the Guardian forum:

They seem to not have grasped that:

• Name doesn’t mean a thing … grow up and get over the name … our Druid could have been designed to run around with a Rifle … I would laugh and just go with it.
• You don’t have to use the Longbow with the new Elite Specialization … and why would you when you can easily get over +50% damage with a Greatsword that is going to return that damage as health … and this was with us ignoring a 3rd specialization that would have provided even more +% damage or a huge amount of +% crit chance.
• Mobility is useful … most of them know about swiftness, meditations, and stacking as much block/aegis/etc. as possible … because some actual good Guardian showed it to them as the way for even a monkey to do well while they facetank stuff in a game where facetanking wrecks just about everyone else … because it’s action-combat … unless you can facetank … so the usefulness of a leap that provides more mobility and a heal and can be traited to do damage and immobilize … so all 4 things … is beyond most of them … we suffer from some of the same here though … seen some pretty dumb posts.
• They don’t understand why you would bother with cripple, blind, etc. … because stack blocks, heals, etc. and press every damaging ability when its off cooldown nets many of them kills as several players still haven’t figured out how to kill that.

Toxsa.2701:

Funny thing is those Guardian whiners are crying about DH being useless LOL…
They can potentially be a better ranger class and yet they’re complaining about it being too weak.

Also, your math is wrong. It’s cumulative not additive.
The correct number of damage bonus is 59.4% damage bonus, which is HUGE.

Well, if you were a guardian and the specialization makes you look like a ranger, you would be sad, haha

Jokes a side, the mechanics of the DH seems totally fine, the numbers are a bit off but overall I can’t see much to complain.

Just a small reminder – remember it lies in Anets interest to make the new skills, traits and so on for the new elite specializations look extremely good. That’s a big selling point – you can’t afford not buying HoT and be left out from all the new good stuff.
Lots of things will be severely OP on release for sure, just to later be toned down.

I remember this fine little BM skill in GW1 ( to name but one):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feral_Aggression

Look at the current power of it, then look at the history and compare that with the original (preview and/or maybe at release, can’t remember). That little skill right there was indeed a selling point for me, to go and buy the expansion! And yeah, I mostly had a pet with me in GW1…

Heck, all my followers had pets if I didn’t have a better secondary for them … more pets … more hp pools … more damage … more lolz.

Livestream carrion gear with 6 stacks of burning = ~3500 tick.

Rapid Fire vs. Shield of Absorption + Defender’s Flame = gg ranger lol

I guess its a nice way to balance Rapid Fire without directly nerfing the actual numbers on LB. We’re also seeing a lot more deflect skills: mes shield, revenant hammer, guardian longbow.