Guild Wars 2

Rhyse.8179:

With all the GS talk going on, I wanted to stop by an add my $.02

Ranger GS has the most diverse skill bar of any weapon in the game. It is, without a doubt, my favorite single weapon on any class. It may be a touch weak in some areas (dps), but it has some very attractive features:
-An AOE autoattack with a very wide angle (180 deg).
-An extremely long range leap on short cooldown.
-A block combined with a strong counter.
-A near-instant on demand interrupt.
itself.

Main reason gs sucks for anything other than running away or spiking single targets with a zerker setup is that it actually doesn’t do real aoe damage. Gs cleaves which hits only 3 targets in a short range. All other two handers in the game do aoe.

And pretty much what tyops said. Many aspects of the ranger just need a revamp and it’s time Devs started taking this issue seriously.

Tyops.5894:

This, I think, more than anything else is a huge part of the problem.

You have had 1.5 years and more to pick at these low hanging fruit. You can keep doing that if you like be that will be pretty much like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issues with this class more than any other class wont be fixed without some major work on all of pets, trait lines, and weapon skills.

A fairly large number of rangers have known this and asked for this for a very long time. I’m fairly certain other developers and yourself have been aware of it too. The tweaks are nice but in the end will always fall short and this is why whenever we have some nice ranger changes the prevalent attitude on the forums is “yes, but…”

On a side note I find that the repeated shortbow nerfs utterly inexplicable. The most recent range change was especially baffling. I understand some people think that flavourwise the SB shouldn’t fire as far as the long bow, but how much sense does it make for rangers to throw axes as far as they can shoot a bow?

I think a lot of the changes for this class, including the changes proposed for this patch, testify to a real lack of vision and direction for the ranger. It would be helpful if you were to restate what your vision for the class is (i.e., those lovely paragraphs that tell players what they can expect from a class when we create a new character) and refocus your balancing efforts to make sure this is true for the ranger.

The low hanging furit approach is what you’ve been doing for 1.5 years and for this class, this will not work. Please please please stop doing that, roll up your selves and and get to work on the core issues.

YUP

Re-examining this class in how it should be expected to be played is critical at this point. As I iterated earlier, the ranger is a hodge-podge of traits with no real synergy with an animal companion. Low-hanging fruit fixes are great… if the problems are simple. Simply put, the problems ranger faces are not simple, and the obvious lack of understanding as to what this class is supposed to represent and do on the battlefield is definitely inhibiting these low-hanging fruit fixes from having more of an impact or any real justification.

What is the ranger? From my experience, all I get out of it is a tree-hugger with a big sword and a pet. Sounds harsh, but that’s really all I get out of it. There’s no flavor, no synergy, blatant D&D rip-offs, and no diversity.

The other classes seem so well-refined and definitively answer the question as to what they do.

Thief is a squishy and slippery skirmisher that strikes his foe in ways the foe cannot retaliate.

Warrior is a brutish weapons-master that can do almost anything with confidence and enough strength.

Mesmers bewilder their enemies with their clones and make the battlefield for their enemies more confusing and difficult to maintain a lead.

Elementalists can adapt and change their fighting style – and element – to any situation or circumstance to get an upper hand.

Guardians utilize tactics and locking down their enemies to inhibit retaliation or support allies.

Engineers find that area control and stability make for easy victories.

Necromancers utilize unconventional – if not self-inflicting – combat styles and life force while embracing death to overbear their enemies by either out-lasting them in a damage race or crippling their foes to enter a fight weakened and dying.

Ranger… has a pet and likes nature!

See the problem?

Low hanging fruit strategy for over a year… When do we go after the higher fruits?

mistsim.2748:

Low hanging fruit strategy for over a year… When do we go after the higher fruits?

I think they’re waiting for the fruit to fall off the tree before they make any effort.

Tyops.5894:

JonPeters.5630:

As I stated, this change is a lot about low hanging fruit. The problem with ranger is things that are good we don’t want to overpower and the things that are not as good are difficult to change.

This, I think, more than anything else is a huge part of the problem.

Belter of a post.

And the more I read that sentence;

the things that are not as good are difficult to change.

the worse it gets..

Given the stance of ‘low-hanging-fruit-fixes’, which, by all means, can be good – aren’t you just delaying the inevitable? Isn’t that sentence almost a verification that Rangers are not in great shape?

As the discussion has progressed, and as others have mentioned – kudos to Mr. Peters for interacting, I get the sense that it’s a reluctance to acknowledge the absolute humongous elephant(s) in the room; our pets. (and our bows, I really wanted to hear something about our bows – I miss them).

As said, aren’t you just delaying the inevitable? You will have to deal with our core mechanic issue at some point. Maybe it’s time to actually get cracking on it? (And in the meantime, buff our damage to absurd levels, you know – just to compensate :P)

Tyops: +1

Another issue with the low hanging fruit approach is that when the big problems are eventually tackled, there will be new problems to deal with – an entirely new set of low hanging fruits. The fastest way to solve those is the hard way.

Not to say the current issues don’t need to be fixed, but from an efficient use of resources standpoint, it seems to me that you’d want to solve the core issues ASAP. Or else you’re just polishing kittens.

Krugan.7901:

Just wanted to add some of my recent thoughts about the greatsword.
We often talk about how the greatsword is a defensive weapon but when you look at the sword you realize it has the same defensive capabilities of the greatsword, infact most of use use this weapon for defensive purpose as offhand weapon. It has 2 built in evades, one of which is a gap creator/closer when used right, it has more flexibility because you can pair the main hand with the proper offhand: warhorn for group buffing and the blast finisher, dagger for an extra evade, torch for the fire field, axe for the cc and reflection and all of that while still maintaining more overall damage than the greatsword. Maybe we need to start to look at the gs not as a defensive weapon but as a sword with different playstyle.

This is what i want to tell those guys who still think GS is so awesome defensive. And Warr/Guards have soo much amor and health. If a Warr wants do deal dmg he has not much defensive anymore. And Guards too, “DPS” Guards have 12k health…

And the sword is defensive too, and his AA is on 1 side “stupid” cause of blocking dogderolls. But on the other hand u can rly stay at your target. Kiting nearly impossibel. This is strong! Dmg is not everything u get from the sword, i can do much more.

And it is rly flexible. That´s hy i think that GS is the defensive weapon is nothing then a myth.
If u are rly reflecting a lot of combat situation u will see that this “random” dogde is most times not rly usefull. And the thrid AA dmg is rly low so you don´t get so much benefit from it.

As i said. Possibel a little bit endurance per Hit on the third AA skill. And/or a whirl finisher (whirls are not rly strong, but rangers don´t have much finishers and it could be nice utility sometimes).

For swoop, a little bit vigor (i think 2 seconds and/or swiftness) would be good. Possibel granted to allies too.
If this is done, it´s still a good defensive weapon and some support for allies. Swiftness for the pet if u engage a fight with swoop. U´re in combat but u have to wait for your pet.

If this is done. Increasing the dmg of the third Autoattack would be nice. The GS should be a good choice and other Playstyle. Possibel GS+Sword. But it need´s more dmg. It should be equal to the 1hand sword (which can do this dps with 3 skills, other 2 are nice utility see above).
But don´t add too much boons. Fury is enough, Might is often easy to get. Don´t forget this.

The last thing is Hilt Bash. Possibel a little bit more range or useable while walking would be good.
Petdmgbuffs need a little rework too. They should stack, or rangers get a “petdmg” bar. Like Warrs rage+Berserker´s Might as a passiv. To make our “class mechanic” funnier.

Friendly greetings

Let’s not forget that this topic is about the December 10th patch.

You are not going to see big changes to the Ranger other than “low-hanging fruit”.
The best you could do is comment on the proposed changes or suggest other simple changes to traits or weapons.

They’re not going to improve the pet responsiveness for the 10th of December, nor are pets going to show their boons and conditions, nor are pet tooltips going to use the stats of the pet. It’s needed yes, but not going to happen this patch.

However, it’s been about 1.5 years and this is the first time a balance dev has actually come to discuss the Ranger class, so I understand the need for people to voice their bigger concerns in the hope it gets picked up for the next patch over.

But this topic is for the December 10th patch, let’s get back to that.

Holland.9351:

Let’s not forget that this topic is about the December 10th patch.

You are not going to see big changes to the Ranger other than “low-hanging fruit”.
The best you could do is comment on the proposed changes or suggest other simple changes to traits or weapons.

They’re not going to improve the pet responsiveness for the 10th of December, nor are pets going to show their boons and conditions, nor are pet tooltips going to use the stats of the pet. It’s needed yes, but not going to happen this patch.

However, it’s been about 1.5 years and this is the first time a balance dev has actually come to discuss the Ranger class, so I understand the need for people to voice their bigger concerns in the hope it gets picked up for the next patch over.

But this topic is for the December 10th patch, let’s get back to that.

Plenty of posts have been on the low hanging fruit and suggestions for changes there. We have heard no replies on any of the varied suggestions on easy trait changes and weapon changes.

Most likely we are just going to have to suck up the nerfs and be even weaker then we are now on dec 10th.

Killsmith.8169:

Rhyse.8179:

The biggest problem with GS is that it’s a defensive weapon, and not the offensive smasher that most people think of with 2 handers. I actually like it for exactly that reason, but the perception of it is coloring peoples view of it’s balance. Also, as a defense/control weapon, it relies heavily on pets for it’s DPS. Conveniently, since you are the tank when using GS, it allows you to use a high DPS pet. Fixing the pet movement AI so they can apply their damage properly and making them stay alive in AOE will do more for the GS then anything you do to the GS itself.

The only problem with using a DPS pet and GS is that even with a power build and full berserker gear, you can’t get agro off of the pet because it’s out damaging you. Now, supposing the 60/40 split on damage is true, what does that say about the damage on GS?

Actually it says more about your knowledge of aggro mechanics. Target health is a higher aggro factor then DPS is. If your Cat has more HP then you, you shouldn’t be in melee range.

Also, Jaguar stealth is an instant de-aggro. Very handy when soloing. By positioning yourself properly, you can use GS 4 to block an attack aimed at your pet. Skirmishing 20 lets your pet heal on crit, so if you choose a high crit DPS pet (cat or bird) they will live a very long time. And there’s pet swap and protection on dodge. In short, don’t be lazy and you won’t have problems keeping your pet alive.

Now, in Dungeons, PVP, and WVW, it’s a whole different issue, since you’ve got massive AOE to deal with, and that’s one of the things that needs fixed. Even micro-managing your pet to the fullest, they still die quickly here. Yes, that’s like 70% of the game. I know. That’s why I said that fixing pets is so important to fixing GS. And other weapons too, because of the assumed DPS split. Seriously, read the thread and you’ll see a complaint about the DPS of EVERY Ranger weapon. The problem is the pets- they either need fixed, or downgraded from DPS to Utility so that weapons can be balanced properly.

Jon,

Thank you so much for posting and answering questions and asking for feedback. We all enjoy your game very much and love to see improvements.

I remembering a Developer commenting they did not want to give a flat percent bonus to stowed pets because it was only a band-aid solution and once they got the pets where they wanted them to be, people would be up in arms over taking something away they became used it.

I agree with this logic. However, we are now past one year and still at this stage were it is very difficult to fix Pet AI and other issues. Pets are not always useless. Pets are sometimes very powerful and I understand it can be very difficult to balance this issue in light of all aspects of your game.

You have read the many arguments on how it is frustrating to know some of your potential is being held back by a mechanic you cannot become better skilled at, so I will not expound on that more. But I will say the image of pet as companion has missed the mark.

My pets do not even remember what name I named them. Kitten, I do not even remember the name I named them half the time and have to come up with dumb names on the spot if I want to switch them out for utility. There is no permanent feel to them other than I cannot get rid of them.

In light of Ascended weapons/armor why not consider again an in-combat pet stow with the option for more personal damage? Leave the pets as they are, this is as good as they are going to get.

At this stage in the game I would hope we could be willing to reconsider adding more than one specific signet Ranger build who gets 25% damage increase for 8 seconds when his pet drops to 25% health every 48-60 seconds. That is a very specific build. This locks me out being an archer, which I feel foolish trying to be in current settings anyway.

Personally I think it would be fun to choose if I wanted to use a pet, which pet, and able to change based on the situation.

Or maybe add more reasons to have the pet out, like reverse boon sharing. Maybe Marksman Longbow Rangers would choose to have their pet out and fighting in the group instead of stowing for more damage if they picked up 15 in Nature Magic for Fortifying Bond which would share boons to your pet, and it would share boons with you.

If you did something like that you would probably have to limit the boons to ones received from outside sources so you would not be able to double up from the personal boons you give pets. Probably also have to limit the boons to sharing only if Ranger was 600 or so away, so it would not double up if you stood next to your pet.

Whatever you do, I am glad you are willing to talk about it.

Rhyse.8179:

Killsmith.8169:

Rhyse.8179:

The biggest problem with GS is that it’s a defensive weapon, and not the offensive smasher that most people think of with 2 handers. I actually like it for exactly that reason, but the perception of it is coloring peoples view of it’s balance. Also, as a defense/control weapon, it relies heavily on pets for it’s DPS. Conveniently, since you are the tank when using GS, it allows you to use a high DPS pet. Fixing the pet movement AI so they can apply their damage properly and making them stay alive in AOE will do more for the GS then anything you do to the GS itself.

The only problem with using a DPS pet and GS is that even with a power build and full berserker gear, you can’t get agro off of the pet because it’s out damaging you. Now, supposing the 60/40 split on damage is true, what does that say about the damage on GS?

Actually it says more about your knowledge of aggro mechanics. Target health is a higher aggro factor then DPS is. If your Cat has more HP then you, you shouldn’t be in melee range.

Also, Jaguar stealth is an instant de-aggro. Very handy when soloing. By positioning yourself properly, you can use GS 4 to block an attack aimed at your pet. Skirmishing 20 lets your pet heal on crit, so if you choose a high crit DPS pet (cat or bird) they will live a very long time. And there’s pet swap and protection on dodge. In short, don’t be lazy and you won’t have problems keeping your pet alive.

Now, in Dungeons, PVP, and WVW, it’s a whole different issue, since you’ve got massive AOE to deal with, and that’s one of the things that needs fixed. Even micro-managing your pet to the fullest, they still die quickly here. Yes, that’s like 70% of the game. I know. That’s why I said that fixing pets is so important to fixing GS (and other weapons too, because of the assumed DPS split)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

Your explanation doesn’t fit with my experience or the information on the wiki. The difference between keeping aggro with a sword and losing it with a greatsword is damage. No other stats are changing.

Also, I use a stalker and a jaguar. Stealth does not reset aggro, and the jaguar does damage during the stealth, so at best it’s a 6 second reprieve. The stalker doesn’t have that option.

You missed the point of my post, which is my fault. I don’t have a problem keeping the pet alive in PvE 95% of the time. My point was that you can’t really tank with a greatsword and use a dps pet because the pet will keep aggro.

I do agree on the balancing of the split though. The ranger’s dependance on its class mechanic should be roughly the same as it is on other classes.

Tyops.5894: wrote…. "As I stated, this change is a lot about low hanging fruit. The problem with ranger is things that are good we don’t want to overpower and the things that are not as good are difficult to change.

This, I think, more than anything else is a huge part of the problem.

You have had 1.5 years and more to pick at these low hanging fruit. You can keep doing that if you like be that will be pretty much like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issues with this class more than any other class wont be fixed without some major work on all of pets, trait lines, and weapon skills.

…snip

On a side note I find that the repeated shortbow nerfs utterly inexplicable. The most recent range change was especially baffling. I understand some people think that flavourwise the SB shouldn’t fire as far as the long bow, but how much sense does it make for rangers to throw axes as far as they can shoot a bow?

I think a lot of the changes for this class, including the changes proposed for this patch, testify to a real lack of vision and direction for the ranger. It would be helpful if you were to restate what your vision for the class is (i.e., those lovely paragraphs that tell players what they can expect from a class when we create a new character) and refocus your balancing efforts to make sure this is true for the ranger.

… snip"

Yes… +1 for this post. The great problem is the fact that the developers have no real vision of this class other than tending to pets and identifying mushrooms. . I wish to god for at least one update, they would leave the guardians and warriors alone, get with the program and play ranger class until it is good enough to stand alongside other classes. What I cannot understand is all the talk of “low hanging fruit” when it was recently shown that developers could not even find a way around ranger skill line.

Unless there is actual R & D based on maximum play on rangers, nothing will be sorted for the good of this class. Rangers need range, the fact that every other class is better than us at range ( plus everything else , conditions, damage, evades etc). Developers really do have to start telling us honestly what IS the vision for this class. Just now its lost, underperforming and really a " filler" class or will continue to be until developers understand what the ranger player base are saying. Go in as a regular player, go in and be kicked off dungeon groups, go in and die in WVW because the ranger underperforms at most things.

Lastly what is more ironic is remember a year ago when Anet gave us the “spot a bot info”, most botters were rangers and had a brown bear. Now a year later they tell us they want us to use brown bear and give it a bit more usless " buffs. Seriously, developers I feel don’t know what the vision is for this class, the fact they play guardians and warriors themselves is proof enough sadly.

GS #1: Increase the damage substantially. If this requires the removal of the evade, so be it. The evade feels very tacked on and while helping in giant cluster[censored], it’s all just random to begin with. Rather the weapon offer me more than Maul offensively then a random evade that may (but probably won’t) help. Why not make the 3rd hit grant our pet Aegis/Evade. This way even if we’re taking a beating, the pet stands a chance of staying up.

GS #2: Whatever. It’s a great skill. It’s our only real option for burst class wide. It’s not a realistic option for burst because the rest of the weapon is so awful for damage. This means if our burst doesn’t kill the target, they have a huge amount of time to recover while we’re stuck in this pitiful weapon.

GS #3: An evade on swoop sounds fine. If you’re just throwing us a bone with this, it’s welcome. Not sure it’s needed but I’m not one to turn away gifts.

GS #4: This weapon is great when countering range. It’s great when countering a single melee target. It’s awful in other scenarios because of the rooting effect while we go through the animation to kick someone. It would be a huge improvement if we could move while roundhouse kicking someone in the face or we continued to evade while playing through the kicking animation. Obviously simply allowing us to move would be the best option for us as the weapon is almost a purely support/run away weapon as it is.

GS #5: It’s hard to hit moving targets that are running in the same direction as you. While it appears to have the same range as other melee skills, I did notice just now that shield bash actually has a leap and I don’t have any problem landing that skill on fleeing targets. Is there additional code on leap attacks to help them hit moving targets? If so, it would be nice if GS #5 were made a leap.

Hi there, my thoughts :

1)

Long Range Shot. Increased the damage at 500 range by 20%.
Long Range Shot. Increased the damage at 500-1000 range by 15%.

Well, why not, Bearbows gonna be happy :P I was not under the impression it needed a buff but why not yeah.

2)

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor. Reduced the increased endurance regeneration from 50% to 25%.

Sooo much needed. This trait was so insanely OP for only 5 points. I had imagined it going to 15/25 or to some major but this one is OK.
It’s even more OP since rangers have a lot of access to evades/blocks outisde this :
GS4, S2, S3, GS1, SB3, D4, Lightning Reflexes
Wow, just wow. So very well deserved.

3)

Wilderness XII – Bark Skin Increased the damage reduction from 30% to 50%.

Interesting one

4)

Nature Magic IX – Two Handed Training. Added the following functionality to this trait. Greatsword and Spear attacks have a chance to grant Fury on hit. 50% chance. 3s Fury. 10s cooldown.

Hummm this one is quite interesting but not that great. The main problem of GS is that #1 chain is weak. #2 was buffed, it’s the best (in power) skill, pretty nice. So this fury, with that ICD and short duration seems to be made to “get fury, press 2”. Yeah, sure it’s great but it could be better.
I’d rather see something like a 33% on crit but with 5-6 second duration to achieve >50% dury.
Or remove evade from the 3rd auto attack to increase the damage dealt, that could be great yeah.

5) About sword :
Very disappointing. It seems like it was designed to mindlessly spam 1 and press #2 and #3 at random, praying to get it when needed.
It definitely does not promote thoughtful gameplay. I guess we can shelve this weapon.

Talking about evade on Monarch Leap. Why not adding evade on sword 2? Sword 2 is a skill to get away from a foe, but you still get hit when doing it.

Lévis.5489:

Talking about evade on Monarch Leap. Why not adding evade on sword 2? Sword 2 is a skill to get away from a foe, but you still get hit when doing it.

Sword 2 does have an evade. It just doesn’t kick in until the “leaping back” animation happens, and that takes a little while after you trigger the attack because your character has to slash first, then leap.

It’d be nice if the two happened simultaneously so the evade would kick in sooner and it’d be more reliable to actually use it as an evade.

Tyops.5894:

This, I think, more than anything else is a huge part of the problem.

You have had 1.5 years and more to pick at these low hanging fruit. You can keep doing that if you like be that will be pretty much like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issues with this class more than any other class wont be fixed without some major work on all of pets, trait lines, and weapon skills.

A fairly large number of rangers have known this and asked for this for a very long time. I’m fairly certain other developers and yourself have been aware of it too. The tweaks are nice but in the end will always fall short and this is why whenever we have some nice ranger changes the prevalent attitude on the forums is “yes, but…”

On a side note I find that the repeated shortbow nerfs utterly inexplicable. The most recent range change was especially baffling. I understand some people think that flavourwise the SB shouldn’t fire as far as the long bow, but how much sense does it make for rangers to throw axes as far as they can shoot a bow?

I think a lot of the changes for this class, including the changes proposed for this patch, testify to a real lack of vision and direction for the ranger. It would be helpful if you were to restate what your vision for the class is (i.e., those lovely paragraphs that tell players what they can expect from a class when we create a new character) and refocus your balancing efforts to make sure this is true for the ranger.

I appreciate that you feel mainland sword leads to unique and high level play as it is, this is true. However, I am not convinced that this is still good for the game. MH sword for the ranger is the only weapon where a new player needs to go change settings in order not to fall to their death and/or leap into a new pack of enemies while on low health. Overall I think that speaks to an error in design.

It’s also the only weapon that keeps you from dodging in its auto attack chain. There are ways to get around that but those are kuldges to get around an issue with the attack chain to allow you to use an extremely important functionality in combat, the dodge.

Sorry about the ramble.

The low hanging furit approach is what you’ve been doing for 1.5 years and for this class, this will not work. Please please please stop doing that, roll up your selves and and get to work on the core issues.

Great post. Sums up pretty nicely how most likely many former ranger players like myself feel.

Seriously Jon. With all changes that you could make and you want to butcher the GS chain, which is the sole reason that a ranger can run around in a zerg in WvW (with his pet dead, obviously).

If you want to focus your attention on GS, you can either add some range to Hilt Bash, because it’s impossible to hit a moving target with it or you could buff the #1 chain damage a little bit, or simply give the Two-handed Training trait 10% damage instead of 5 because rangers are in dire need a melee option to do decent damage outside of the clunky sword (even if it’s working as intended and some people like it, it does not change the fact that is not easy to use).

And as many people have already said in this post, the main problem with power rangers is being pigeon holed into using lackluster traits in Skirmishing while Marksmanship is bloated with useful traits for an archer/power build.

It still boggles my mind that a ranger is still handicapped in WvW because we can’t use our pets effectively. In a keep siege/defense you can’t hit enemies with it so it’s a mere condition removal tool (because we are kind of forced into Empathic Bond) and in a large scale battle it dies instantly, so you don’t even have your condition removal available.

I really hope that you get someone with some insight of the core problems of the class and try to address them instead of tweaking numbers like health of spirits or pets like the last couple of patches.

I’m sorry if the post came as rude, but I’m kind of tired of waiting for a decent patch for power rangers.

Can we get a buff to our healing skills particularly in the form of reduced cool downs?
One way to help the ranger is thru DPS. The other is thru defense.

Cutting 5 seconds off each healing skill would not be OP given how little defense we have.

Inverted.7439:

JonPeters.5630:

I just had a wacky idea that might make some aspects of MH sword less frustrating. I’ll test it out when I get in to work and report back.

Jon

C’mon man, the sword MH auto is interesting but it’s not that bad, what is in need of help is the bows. They’re so simple & someone with one finger could play as good as a top tier player… NEED INTRICACY

It is VERY bad when you compare it lets say to to the guardian sword auto..
In the current melee heavy pve meta even if they improve bows they will still feel secondary…

Panacea.4021:

Seriously Jon. With all changes that you could make and you want to butcher the GS chain, which is the sole reason that a ranger can run around in a zerg in WvW (with his pet dead, obviously).

Funfact: If u´re hitting 3 “highpower” and highamored targets with GS AA3 when they have Retalation up. U´ll get more Retalationdmg then u could deal to them (noncrit, Soldierstats).
Think about it, yes soo strong is this weapon and it´s aviod in zerg´s.

And what is a ranger?
An "range"er, doensn´t mean “range” (only), yes bows are needing love. But they aren´t everything rangers have. We are no pure hunter´s.
The class is (or should be) a part of nature. A guardian of the nature.
With pet, not without!
We have so much “naturemagic”. That´s why we have no rifle (and hopefully never will get).
Example for “magical” skills. GS Maul and Swoop, nature´s spirits are assisting us. Our spirits.
Entangle oh and our healing spring!
Our trees if we die. (would it possibel to give us any possibility to “summon” such an tree per trait or a future weapon without dying before? would be a nice and funny healsupport).
WH Skill 4 (<needs love too, only dmg but rly low dmg/castime, it need´s addional dmg or conditions)
and 5! Yes, or did u think the spiritwolve we can see is out of a smoking pipe?
Linghtnix reflexes are magic too (cause there is a lighning flash, and we don´t use smokebomb´s)
Viper´s Nest too for example.

This is what rangers are! Not just a Petless “Bowsniper”. We´re much more.
Ok we have problem´s, Pet AI, some failtraits, or in false tree´s. But we have so much potential. In possibel another year we could be so cool that GW2 will get a lot of new player´s who just want to play a real nature´s guy/girl.

1 1/2 year is over, what is this, 1/5 of an good MMOs lifetime? Which classbalance was perfect in the first year?
Just look at World of Warcraft Classic (balance?, what is it? something to eat?^^).
And how boring it is now.

GW2 has one of the only “buildsystems” that allow us to create our unique playstyle. What is needed are more tools and better balance and some fixes!
I think (ok hope) that it will come, hopyfully the most important things next spring!

Norjena.5172:

Funfact: If u´re hitting 3 “highpower” and highamored targets with GS AA3 when they have Retalation up. U´ll get more Retalationdmg then u could deal to them (noncrit, Soldierstats).
Think about it, yes soo strong is this weapon and it´s aviod in zerg´s.

That points more to the issues with retaliation than anything else, the most illogical implemented boon in the game. Go back to GW1, take a good look at Retribution or Holy Wrath.

I thought the fury on hit was good at first, but seriously if you are going to use great sword in a power build you are going to trait x/30/30/x/x for moment of clarity, leaving no points left to get it. You probably don’t need the fury either, because you’ve got enough precision from 30 in skirmishing.

The GS/power traits in nm should be moved to another line…

Sube Dai.8496:

The GS/power traits in nm should be moved to another line…

I would like to merge Two Handed Training with Martial Mastery.

Sarision.6347:

Sube Dai.8496:

The GS/power traits in nm should be moved to another line…

I would like to merge Two Handed Training with Martial Mastery.

Works for me

JonPeters.5630:

Some ranger discussion.

Natural Vigor
Starting here because I think it requires the most discussion. This, simply put, was a wildly overpowered trait. I tell people not to compare one profession to another, but Engineer has this trait as a major grandmaster. It was simply too easy to put 5 points in this line and then be able to dodge every 6.67 seconds. As it stands after the change this still allows you to splash 5 points and dodge every 8 seconds. I don’t think this will ruin survivability, and I think by buff other traits further down this line it will encourge rangers who are looking to survive to go further into this trait line.

Really? Well in my 1700 hours plus play time of ranger, dodging has been the definitive characteristic in this class. When solo farming five young karkas in southsun or ten grawls in frostgorge, dodging really, really helps and there have been lots of close calls in those melee fights, where even a split second makes a lot of difference. Yes I had to circle and dodge alot but they had high hp, and they packed a punch. Melding ranged and melee fighting should be what the ranger is all about. Dodges really help to enjoy this class and if you can’t fathom that you shouldn’t be in this business, and I have a long list of complaints in my posting history. Though atm, I am very angry about this and regardless the outcome your opinion and/or your teams opinion held on this subject is very blasé.

I just wanted to add. Opening strike is taking too long to refresh.

The build I use doesn’t have Natural Vigor in it. It took me a while to get used to it, but we have sooo many dodge skills on weapons it’s crazy.

The GS Traits in Nature Magic should be moved to Skirmishing, since it focuses on dealing damage anyways.

Not sure how I feel about the response regarding pets. We’ve been told that pets are a staple of our class and what makes us unique yet it’s broken and it’s not going to be looked at any time soon. Disappointing to say the least given the state of Rangers since release.

Not sure how I feel about the response regarding pets. We’ve been told that pets are a staple of our class and what makes us unique yet it’s broken and it’s not going to be looked at any time soon. Disappointing to say the least given the state of Rangers since release.

Sina.9208:

The build I use doesn’t have Natural Vigor in it. It took me a while to get used to it, but we have sooo many dodge skills on weapons it’s crazy.

Longbow has no dodge/evade.
Main Axe has no dodge/evade.
Offhand Axe doesn’t have one either
Offhand Torch also doesn’t have one.
Offhand Warhorn also doesn’t have a dodge/evade.

Only 4 of our weapons have a dodge/evade. Greatsword, Sword, Dagger and Shortbow.

Kain Francois.4328:

The GS Traits in Nature Magic should be moved to Skirmishing, since it focuses on dealing damage anyways.

Or in to Wilderness Survival where the other greatsword trait is.

Our traits are a mess and all over the place. They need compression and a few to be moved into more logical spots.

Sicarius.4639:

Not sure how I feel about the response regarding pets. We’ve been told that pets are a staple of our class and what makes us unique yet it’s broken and it’s not going to be looked at any time soon. Disappointing to say the least given the state of Rangers since release.

Same here. The fact that a key component of our class, the pet, cannot hit a moving target, and really is not being looked at yet is a huge problem. Still happy for the upcoming changes.

All I would like to see are changes from this topic:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/iR-RANGER-Redesign/page/2#post2798528

Sorry I could not resist this XD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRZpligDOs

Atherakhia.4086:

JonPeters.5630:

Some ranger discussion.

Power Rangers
No pun intended. As many have said these guys are in an interesting position. In some ways they can be very strong, but everytime I play my ranger this way it feel like it comes up a little bit short. I think this is because they are lacking a few things as either additional tools for greatsword or as utilities. Signets are the somewhat obvious utility choice but their effect is too varied to run a strong full signet build here. Conversely all traits associated with signets tend to increase in power the more you bring. What signets need is a good trait that synergizes with bringing a single signet, like Nature’s Voice does for shouts. This would let you bring maybe one or two signets and suppliment them with something else. One idea we talked about for Greatsword would be to take the evade off of the 3rd attack of the auto-chain and put it on swoop. This would give you a second on-demand defensive skill and instead we put something less timing based (for example a whirl finisher) on that third attack to empower it.

Thanks,

Jon

How can you hope power Rangers to succeed when you still haven’t given them the tools all other power based classes seem to take for granted? The class still has no realistic options for burst or AE. Perhaps if the class offered a ton of utility I could understand offensive options being so poor, but it doesn’t have utility either. There’s a reason the Ranger class consistently ranks 8th of 8 classes in WvW. It simply doesn’t do anything.

The only 2 skills this class has for real burst is Maul and Path of Scars. Nearly every other attack for this class does roughly the same damage as our #1 skill. You then introduce traits like Remorseless and Moment of Clarity that have no real impact on anything but burst skills. Who cares if a low damage auto-attack crits or does 150% more damage? AE is just as bad. A LOT of our skills affect only 3 targets instead of 5 like real AEs. Barrage is our only real AE classwide. Given the lower damage, very limited value in cripple, and the fact that it hits 5 targets multiple times killing us due to retaliation, it’s of no real value either. What does that leave? Piercing arrows?

Worse still is the fact that nearly every single utility option this class has REQUIRES an enormous trait investment before it’s even worth slotting on our bar. Most of our signets are awful until you get 30pts in marks. Most traps are awful until you invest 30pts. Spirits are awful without 20pts next patch (but really likely 30 still). We need a 30pt trait to still have some of the worst solutions to conditions of any class in the game (mesmers have it worse, but who else?). We have no reason to get Remorseless at all. Moment of Clarity is only really useful in a hilt+bash roll. We still need 4 marksmanship traits but only have room for 2 if we plan to use a longbow despite other classes (warriors) having the same traits combined.

If you legitimately want a power based Ranger to succeed in this game you need to throw us a bone already. Something needs to change.

So So So True. The fact that we are the jocke Class of WvW is so Frustrationg. I allready hope that there will be an other mmo soon whit a real RANGer clas
No real AOE no real support for Zerg, petts diying instantly, and ghosts are like a facepalm joke equipped in WvW. The fact that i was forced by my guild to lvl up a guard or a Warrior or an ele or a nec or what ever instead of a Ranger is statemant enough. The Designers of the Ranger should never again deseign a class in any MMO. Thats my oppinion. How poor is it, that you descripe the ranger as the master of the Bow, but in fact you have to play the Ranger as a Mele in GvG WvW. The reason why the ranger was or until Dec. 10 will be OP in pvp was just a proof of ungiven attention to the class and nothing eles.

The class your´re looking for is the warrior. Just play it no Pet, good AoE, rangedmg 2 weapons.
Now i know why our Bows are a little bit to weak. To make sure who want´s to play a real nature´s girl/guy with pet and who wan´t to play a “pew pew pew Headshot! pew pew Sniper” class.

And something i have to correct. Martial mastery and twohanded training together would be nice.
But it should be in nature magic not skirmishing. For a dps reason, yes.
Cause in skimishing their are some strong traits affecting your pet.
And in nature´s magic u can trait something what should be baseline. Fortifying Bond.

This and the 25minor makes natures magic rly strong for dps builds. On the other hand, off-handed mastery is in Wilderness survival tree.

Posted on the general discussion post, but I need to post this also here:

JonPeters.5630:

Natural Vigor
Starting here because I think it requires the most discussion. This, simply put, was a wildly overpowered trait. I tell people not to compare one profession to another, but Engineer has this trait as a major grandmaster. It was simply too easy to put 5 points in this line and then be able to dodge every 6.67 seconds. As it stands after the change this still allows you to splash 5 points and dodge every 8 seconds. I don’t think this will ruin survivability, and I think by buff other traits further down this line it will encourge rangers who are looking to survive to go further into this trait line.

I’m sorry, but I have so say this: You fail in these maths. Natural vigor it’s 50% regen, it let’s a dodge each 7.5 seconds not 6.67. I check it in game: If you do a double dodge it’s 15s until the complete bar refills. With the nerf each dodge will go to 8.75s, not 8s.

If you think that 8s between dodges is ok, and without nerf the current dodge is 7.5s (not 6.67)…. ¿This is still being nerfed? You base this nerf in a math error, I think we need some explanation here.

Norjena.5172:

Now i know why our Bows are a little bit to weak. To make sure who want´s to play a real nature´s girl/guy with pet and who wan´t to play a “pew pew pew Headshot! pew pew Sniper” class.

Wait, what? And why headshot-thingie can’t go together with nature/pet-thingie? It did in GW1 wihtout any problems. Now, I know it’s totally different system here, but it’s still same class “idea”. Ranger is even described as archer by ANet – ranger, not warrior.

Norjena.5172:

The class your´re looking for is the warrior. Just play it no Pet, good AoE, rangedmg 2 weapons.
Now i know why our Bows are a little bit to weak. To make sure who want´s to play a real nature´s girl/guy with pet and who wan´t to play a “pew pew pew Headshot! pew pew Sniper” class.

And something i have to correct. Martial mastery and twohanded training together would be nice.
But it should be in nature magic not skirmishing. For a dps reason, yes.
Cause in skimishing their are some strong traits affecting your pet.
And in nature´s magic u can trait something what should be baseline. Fortifying Bond.

This and the 25minor makes natures magic rly strong for dps builds. On the other hand, off-handed mastery is in Wilderness survival tree.

The problem with the all ranger builds is that we have to put 30 in WS for EB.

This means their aren’t enough left over to go into the power lines, which are stupidly split into 3 trees: power, skirmishing, and nature.

Remember the giant thread from last year? Hope it won’t end up like it.
http://youtu.be/htHRErZM7QM

Remove “in combat” from Tail Wind. In combat, it would operate exactly the same. It would also allow a ranger to move faster out of combat.

The whole idea of ranger typically is a fast in and fast out type character.

Lévis.5489:

Remember the giant thread from last year? Hope it won’t end up like it.
http://youtu.be/htHRErZM7QM

Hahaha, This said it all. I hope Jon actually watches this. !!

Norjena.5172:

The class your´re looking for is the warrior. Just play it no Pet, good AoE, rangedmg 2 weapons.
Now i know why our Bows are a little bit to weak. To make sure who want´s to play a real nature´s girl/guy with pet and who wan´t to play a “pew pew pew Headshot! pew pew Sniper” class.

And something i have to correct. Martial mastery and twohanded training together would be nice.
But it should be in nature magic not skirmishing. For a dps reason, yes.
Cause in skimishing their are some strong traits affecting your pet.
And in nature´s magic u can trait something what should be baseline. Fortifying Bond.

This and the 25minor makes natures magic rly strong for dps builds. On the other hand, off-handed mastery is in Wilderness survival tree.

I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY A WARRIOR, I WANT TO PLAY A RANGER AS IT IS DESCRIPED WHEN I CREATE A RANGER. I WANT MY GUILD MATES TO TELL ME, PLEASE COME WITH A LONGBOW RANGER, AND NOT BE THE CLASS EVVVVVVVERRRRRY ONE IS JOKING ABOUT IN CHAT AND TEAMSPEAK. I AM NOT A WARRRRRRRRRRRIOR. FIX THE RANGER DEAR CLASS DESIGNERS, OR GO CREATING A HELLO KITTY GAME.

To make things clear, i am not talking about, pve or pvp, i’m throug with that. I’m talking about the Ranger in Endgame, caled WvWvW. I’m actualy not asking you if you copuld do that for me, i am giving you the order to do that, for all of the Ranger playing Gamers of GW2, as a paying custommer. I want to support my Zerg with AOE AOE AOE. The Nec has 4 AOE field, the ranger just ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE. WHY? ANd WHY is it a fact that the cd of LB skill 5 is soooo long while it has no effectivnes left anymore. Where are the supporting skills Please Tell me! Write me a mail or do a YT vid where you can explayne how the master of bows can be played whit bows in WvWvW. Let me gues, you can’t don’t you. Explayne me how my pad should survive long enough in a zerg fight while i have no control about that thing, and why the skills have a cast time of 1000000000 secconds. You talk about healing spring, you musst be jocking, because i do not survive long enough to cast that spring for my zerg, when i’m going for the power ranger. Der Jon, face it, there is a real issue with the Ranger and WvW, and your job is to fix it. The ranger is one of 8 classes, so that means 1/8 of your game is broken and neeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to be fixed realy realy fast. You should stop nerfing anny thing and start rethinking about the LB skills their Cast time their use for the Zerg and Guild.

Tako, take a chill pill, calm down, have some tea, cool off in the pool, etc. Just try to calm down, since demands will get you nowhere here, and Anet tends to ignore posts that are as flaming as yours.

Sube Dai.8496:

The problem with the all ranger builds is that we have to put 30 in WS for EB.

This means their aren’t enough left over to go into the power lines, which are stupidly split into 3 trees: power, skirmishing, and nature.

True, active condition remove is a problem. SoR for example is rly bad. Heal as one is still useless. Troll unguent could be longer duration, a little bit less healing per tick. But a chance of 10% or 20% to remove a condition per tick.

@Tako why should WvsW be the “endgame”? It´s a part of the game not more, not less.
For me it is nothing, masses of players lagging and spamming a few skills they can use. Waiting, walking, waiting, walking, waiting. Then 1 guy/girl cries in our teamspeaksservers..push! push! push! well done people…yes pushing 1 is rly well done!
Some others have a lot of fun here. That´s ok.

And in smallscale WvsW ranger´s are strong.
If they could reduce the lag´s ranger can find their place. They have strong soft cc and traps. But this condition heavy gameplay needs more tactics then the current meta. So less lags, and interessted people who want to go others ways then just the easiest one they can find.
And i never said our bows are fine, at one of the first pages i wrote donwe my ideas do change the longbow. They shortbow is not mine, should some1 other write down some ideas.

I assume with some of the issues brought up….the REAL issues….has scared the dev away.

Sit back, and wait for some dev replies next year I guess.

Norjena.5172:

Sube Dai.8496:

The problem with the all ranger builds is that we have to put 30 in WS for EB.

This means their aren’t enough left over to go into the power lines, which are stupidly split into 3 trees: power, skirmishing, and nature.

True, active condition remove is a problem. SoR for example is rly bad. Heal as one is still useless. Troll unguent could be longer duration, a little bit less healing per tick. But a chance of 10% or 20% to remove a condition per tick.

@Tako why should WvsW be the “endgame”? It´s a part of the game not more, not less.
For me it is nothing, masses of players lagging and spamming a few skills they can use. Waiting, walking, waiting, walking, waiting. Then 1 guy/girl cries in our teamspeaksservers..push! push! push! well done people…yes pushing 1 is rly well done!
Some others have a lot of fun here. That´s ok.

And in smallscale WvsW ranger´s are strong.
If they could reduce the lag´s ranger can find their place. They have strong soft cc and traps. But this condition heavy gameplay needs more tactics then the current meta. So less lags, and interessted people who want to go others ways then just the easiest one they can find.
And i never said our bows are fine, at one of the first pages i wrote donwe my ideas do change the longbow. They shortbow is not mine, should some1 other write down some ideas.

Proper WvW zerg clashes are won with tactics and cross server politics. Sorry if all you take away is lag and “Push push push”. Maybe transfer to a less populated server if large scale fights that strain the system bug you that much?