Guild Wars 2

The lack of trait compression leads me to believe there was simply a lack of ideas as to what to fill the traits with. Warriors have plenty of our traits compressed because they had tons of stuff to fill the trees with, not so much for us Rangers.

Also I think they should at least put a warning on the character creation page as a public service announcement that pets are not working as intended and thus should be wary of choosing such a class until they can be sorted. I’d be very annoyed to go out of my way to create one now and then find out that I’m only 75% of any other class in the game, not to mention pet’s are not scaling to Ascended either.

Raven.9603:

Xukavi.4320:

So by that logic we should give up on having a good working class mechanic and just try to buff other parts of the ranger?

By that logic we should recognize that the amount of times we are asked to give ideas for low hanging fruit are few and far between, and not squander them on pipe dreams.

every other game can make pets hit moving targets and make them survive parties, large scale fights and raids. if anet was good enough to do that they wouldve already, and that should re-emphasize the importance of sticking to ideas they can actually handle.

(i know, low blow anet, but your games been out for a year and pets are about as reliable as the sex drive of a 80 year old couple).

Which is why I’m saying change the class mechanic. It’s more work, yes, but at least it’s something they can do. Even if it’s a temporary thing. Replace pets with preparations till they can internally fix pet AI and then either merge both in something like the idea I posted or completely revert back to pet AI. I just think that replacing the pets totally till they fix it will add even more work cuz they’d have to replace all the traits and trait line regarding pets but if they add a mechanic is just adding some traits and not reworking the whole thing. This would also keep the BM builds around so we’re not taking builds to give diff builds.

Are you planning on changing/fixing the sword auto-attacks for rangers?
I’m referring to the locked animation when using the second and third auto-attack.

It’s currently really hard to use in PvE, as the inability to move/dodge while attacking can result in your death.

bri.2359:

Regarding the disappearance of Jon Peter from this thread.

Most likely he has been told by the higher-ups to stop posting. I suspect that publicly admitting the borked pet issues cannot/will not be fixed opened an internal can-of-worms at Anet. It makes whatever future tweaks Anet had planned for the class, and whatever suggestions we come up with, pretty insignificant and meaningless in light of this.

Anet steadfastly refuses to do what is necessary, they will not fix the broken pet mechanic, nor make it optional, nor delete it entirely for some other mechanic.

I suggested awhile back that the proper thing for Anet to now is to allow any account playing a ranger to be able to transfer all soubound kit, unlocked dyes, unused skill points, crafting professions, etc., to any other character. If Anet did this, I would delete my ranger in an instant, and I assume many others would a well.

Until then I am stuck with a class I stopped enjoying playing over 6 months ago.

I doubt that. While there’s no doubt that he mucked things up, I’m sure he stopped responding to this thread because they’re no longer taking feedback for the patch this thread is talking about. When they locked the main thread a week or so ago I’m sure they all stopped reading.

The only thing we can do is continue to present information and hope things will change with the next patch next year some time.

bri.2359:

I suggested awhile back that the proper thing for Anet to now is to allow any account playing a ranger to be able to transfer all soubound kit, unlocked dyes, unused skill points, crafting professions, etc., to any other character. If Anet did this, I would delete my ranger in an instant, and I assume many others would a well.

That would unfortunately not be good enough. I would also like part of my money and life back (as I read the description on the main Ranger page before deciding to buy this kittenen game). I must admit that I enjoyed playing her most days, and enjoyed playing this game most days, but an admittance like that made me lose all hope of ever being on equal footing with anyone playing any other class. And I’m kittenen stubborn, despite the /laugh and corpse dancing and TS jibes and watching poor Snær limping back to me I’ve had to endure, I still main her.

If my pet is never going to work correctly, and I don’t really want to re-roll, delete or get compensated, at least give me something in return that is working.

I love my Ranger and I hate my Ranger. Fix/substitute the stuff that makes me hate her, ArenaNet!

Chokolata.1870:

-lightning reflexes removes immobilize , cripple , chilled

YES! At least immobolize, it really defeats what that skill is about.

Chokolata.1870:

after thinking about it i have come to the conclusion that the endurance trait nerf is tier1 BS . Why ? Ranger has no other defensive mechanisms other then dodge .

Do not post BS if your going to use the term “BS” in your post. This exact hyperbole is on every professions sub forum, because they are making endurance regeneration/vigor changes all over.

Chokolata.1870:

Warrior has vigor , blocks , mobility , natural health and toughness , condition removals . Thief has stealth and a lot of dodgs . Mesmer has clones and stealth.. the list goes on .

If the list goes on and on, then tell us. I would love to hear it. Rangers have stealth. Counter attack is tied with the longest block duration in the game, but at the second lowest cool down. We have utility skills to send damage to your pet instead of you taking it. You have passive traits to remove conditions that several professions do not have. You have a endurance regeneration trait, which nerfed or not, is something many professions do not have at all. The list goes on and on. The difference is that I can actually produce a list of factual ones, you on the other hand claim all other professions yet can only list three.

You think rangers have it bad. Look at this video about what they are doing to engineers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

coglin.1867:

Chokolata.1870:

after thinking about it i have come to the conclusion that the endurance trait nerf is tier1 BS . Why ? Ranger has no other defensive mechanisms other then dodge .

Do not post BS if your going to use the term “BS” in your post. This exact hyperbole is on every professions sub forum, because they are making endurance regeneration/vigor changes all over.

Chokolata.1870:

Warrior has vigor , blocks , mobility , natural health and toughness , condition removals . Thief has stealth and a lot of dodgs . Mesmer has clones and stealth.. the list goes on .

If the list goes on and on, then tell us. I would love to hear it. Rangers have stealth. Counter attack is tied with the longest block duration in the game, but at the second lowest cool down. We have utility skills to send damage to your pet instead of you taking it. You have passive traits to remove conditions that several professions do not have. You have a endurance regeneration trait, which nerfed or not, is something many professions do not have at all. The list goes on and on. The difference is that I can actually produce a list of factual ones, you on the other hand claim all other professions yet can only list three.

You think rangers have it bad. Look at this video about what they are doing to engineers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Stealth only applies when actually hitting the target, it is gimmicky as you often get “obstructed” while using longbow.

Counterattack is not a real block; it blocks projectiles only and will end immediately if a physical attack is blocked.

Pets used to block damage? Do you mean “protect me”? It only works if the pet is alive, and the skill itself kills the pet, leading to dps reduction. Other classes have reliable invulnerability instead with 0 penalty. You could argue that rangers have signet of stone as well, but we have to trait 30 pts just to be able to use it.

Active condition clearing will always be better than passive condition clearing. The only profession I know that has worse condition clearing than rangers are mesmers.

coglin.1867:

Chokolata.1870:

after thinking about it i have come to the conclusion that the endurance trait nerf is tier1 BS . Why ? Ranger has no other defensive mechanisms other then dodge .

Do not post BS if your going to use the term “BS” in your post. This exact hyperbole is on every professions sub forum, because they are making endurance regeneration/vigor changes all over.

Chokolata.1870:

Warrior has vigor , blocks , mobility , natural health and toughness , condition removals . Thief has stealth and a lot of dodgs . Mesmer has clones and stealth.. the list goes on .

If the list goes on and on, then tell us. I would love to hear it. Rangers have stealth. Counter attack is tied with the longest block duration in the game, but at the second lowest cool down. We have utility skills to send damage to your pet instead of you taking it. You have passive traits to remove conditions that several professions do not have. You have a endurance regeneration trait, which nerfed or not, is something many professions do not have at all. The list goes on and on. The difference is that I can actually produce a list of factual ones, you on the other hand claim all other professions yet can only list three.

You think rangers have it bad. Look at this video about what they are doing to engineers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Hunter’s shot stealth is borderline useless in most situations because of the longbow’s current weakness in anything under 1000 range along with a lack of attacks that benefit from actually being in stealth. It’s a far cry from CnD or D/P leaps.

Lol our condition removal is some of the worst in the entire game. A serious condition build can have a player downed in the 10 seconds it takes for EB to actually activate. People use EB because we have nothing better, not because its ‘leet’ or anything like that.

Counter attack only blocks ranged skills, it only works against one melee attack and then send us into a long cast attack that is an opening for any fight against more than one target.

‘Protect Me’? Better not absorb more than the paltry amount of damage it takes to kill a pet or even give them any other commands at all.

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

Chokolata.1870:

Suggestions i would like to give as far as some weapon changes and trait chances are concerned :

Marksmanship :

-Eagle eye affects longbow cooldowns by 20% as well as its current benefits

-Predators instinct , instead of a 10 second cripple , it could be a 3 second immobilize with a 15 second cooldown

Skirmishing :

-Sharpened edges bleed duration from 2 to 3 seconds

-Carnivorous apetite also affects rangers allowing them to lifesteal on crit , perhaps for a value between 150-200 hp

-Honed axes , critical hits with axes give 1 stack of might to allies for 5 seconds as well as the current effect .

-Quickdraw , reduces shortbow cooldowns , conditions inflicted by the shortbow last 50% longer

-Trapper master and grandmaster trait merged , trap condition duration and buffed AOE given by default . New composite trait gives cooldown reduction and throw range .

-New grandmaster trait * , Skirmishers gambit , critical hits transfer conditions , 2 per hit , ICD 10 seconds

Beastmastery :

-Instinctual bond * minor trait changed from pet quickness on downed to removes 1 condition on pet swap *

Weapon abilities :

-throw torch does a daze/knockdown for 1.5 seconds

-bonfire physical component buffed

-lightning reflexes removes immobilize , cripple , chilled

-Sharpening stones cooldown reduced from 45 seconds to 30

-Signet of the hunt cooldown reduced from 30 to 15 seconds

-Protect me does not kill the pet anymore , clears 2 conditions as well .

-Guard gives a 20% reduced incoming damage taken to allies within the circle , circle expanded slightly

I’d give up all those goodies just to get that buff to Carnivorous.

Substance E.4852:

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

No, not really. After leveling the last of my 8 professions to 80 at the first of the year, one thing I really learned, is that players like you, like to claim “actual combat understanding” when you don’t know jack about the other professions to make a comparison.

Particularly Your laughable comments about condition removal. Every player always tries to convince the sane people, that their current main is the worst profession at everything and subsequently needs to be buffed at everything. You prove that in particular, by with the comical effort you put into trying to down play every skill. Your kidding yourself if you believe the other professions cannot list issues with each of their skills as well.

coglin.1867:

Substance E.4852:

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

No, not really. After leveling the last of my 8 professions to 80 at the first of the year, one thing I really learned, is that players like you, like to claim “actual combat understanding” when you don’t know jack about the other professions to make a comparison.

Particularly Your laughable comments about condition removal. Every player always tries to convince the sane people, that their current main is the worst profession at everything and subsequently needs to be buffed at everything.

Leveling to 80 =/= knowledge in said class when you can just craft/karma train your way to glory.

But hey, feel free to sing the merits of Ranger condition removal then. Just give me 5 minutes to go make some popcorn because I’m sure it will be a show to remember.

Substance E.4852:

Leveling to 80 =/= knowledge in said class when you can just craft/karma train your way to glory.

We don’t all level the way you did by pure crafting, but we won’t judge you. I probably did 60-70 levels of ech profession in WvW myself. As far as the merits of condition removal, you comments made 2 things clear. One is that your bias to the point that you will not be receptive to anything because you have closed your mind to it. Secondly, you do not have enough knowledge of other professions to make a relative comparison or to relate to the skills if they are compared.

coglin.1867:

Substance E.4852:

Leveling to 80 =/= knowledge in said class when you can just craft/karma train your way to glory.

We don’t all level the way you did by pure crafting, but we won’t judge you. I probably did 60-70 levels of ech profession in WvW myself. As far as the merits of condition removal, you comments made 2 things clear. One is that your bias to the point that you will not be receptive to anything because you have closed your mind to it. Secondly, you do not have enough knowledge of other professions to make a relative comparison or to relate to the skills if they are compared.

You’ve said next to nothing in your numerous posts and you fail to take in the one most obvious thing: this is the Ranger forum.

Of course other classes have issues. This is an ever evolving game and as one class is improved 7 other classes take offense to it. But this is the Ranger forum, where people post issues related to the Ranger class. If you want to discuss the Engineer, why would you come to the Ranger forum to discuss it? Are you implying the Engineer is worse off than the Ranger class? Considering this is the Ranger forum I’d wager you’ll find few who agree with you here.

Do you have something you’d like to discuss in particular? Or are you going to continue dancing?

Actually , that passive endurance regeneration trait accounts for most of rangers survivability across all builds . Why ?

1)ranger has access to poor vigor , you can get a 5 second proc every 15 – 30 seconds from traits . Usually in places where you have to place something else very important to the build

2)ranger has access to few blocks and zero free invulnerabilities , everything comes at a penalty be it a long animation like counterstrike , having to trait 30 MM for stone signet or killing your pet with protect me .

3)the endurance trait nerf is a product of a SPvP nerf to a build that is pretty useless everywhere else in the game ( spirits ) , but will affect multiple other builds considering rangers defense is dodging . For example :

-trapper will be nerfed as the only vigor you could possibly get is vigorous renewal , but you probably have to opt for the anti-stun trait . Skirmishing vigor cannot be taken as usually sharpened edges is a must

-beastmaster builds that opt for rending strikes in the BM line usually have to take expertese training in wilderness for the extra pet condition damage , otherwise the rending strikes trait has no point if bleeds do 44 damage per tick . Hence you cannot take either the wilderness or BM vigor

-different weapon combinations will take a hit . What if someone developed a build for axe/torch + shortbow for example ? or if someone barely made it and played longbow +axe/axe , or dual bows ? Anything that does not use sword/dagger or greatsword will see a massive hit to survivability .

You underestimate how huge this nerf is gonna be for rangers . And there is no reliable and genorous vigor traits , LR is a poor utility , especially since it does not clear one of our biggest problems , immob .

coglin.1867:

Substance E.4852:

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

No, not really. After leveling the last of my 8 professions to 80 at the first of the year, one thing I really learned, is that players like you, like to claim “actual combat understanding” when you don’t know jack about the other professions to make a comparison.

Particularly Your laughable comments about condition removal. Every player always tries to convince the sane people, that their current main is the worst profession at everything and subsequently needs to be buffed at everything. You prove that in particular, by with the comical effort you put into trying to down play every skill. Your kidding yourself if you believe the other professions cannot list issues with each of their skills as well.

Allow me to list all of the ranger’s condition removal skills/traits, and their drawbacks.

• Empathic bond: Transfers 3 conditions to your pet every 10 seconds. Only functions if your pet is alive, and within range (maximum range unconfirmed)
• Evasive purity: Dodging removes poison and blind. Only removes the two aforementioned conditions, costs a dodge roll.
• Signet of renewal: Passive- remove a condition every 10 seconds. Active- pet draws all conditions from nearby allies to itself. Active only works if your pet is alive, and within 600 range.
• Healing spring: Removes one condition every 2 seconds while standing in the field, and one condition upon activation. Must remain in the field to receive the full effect.
• Nature’s renewal: removes 5 conditions and revives up to 3 downed allies. Elite skill, 600 range, can only be used twice every 240 seconds, spirit can be killed rather easily.

Objectively, healing spring is our most useful condition removal skill, but it also happens to be tied to one of our better healing skills. The rest of our condition removal is either passive, requires our pet to be both alive and nearby, or has a tremendously long cooldown.

In comparison, guardians have:

• Inscribed removal: Activating a signet removes a condition. Turns every signet into an active condition cleanse.
• Purity: remove a condition every 10 seconds. Passive.
• Pure of Voice: allies affected by shouts convert one condition into a boon. Turns every shout into an AoE cleanse.
• Signet of resolve: passive. remove a condition every 10 seconds, can be traited to remove two conditions with perfect inscriptions.
• Ray of judgement: Cures a condition on each ally it strikes. Only bounces 4 times, allies must be in range to be affected.
• Purifying blast: Cure a condition on allies. Underwater only.
• Purging flames: Cures 3 conditions upon activation.
• Contemplation of purity: Converts all conditions into boons.
• Smite condition: Cures one condition and inflicts damage to nearby foes.

The list seems a bit biased, but guardians are the clear winners when it comes to condition removal. Guardians have far more active cleanses, and they come with far fewer stipulations.

Msters Bond – It resets every time u go swimming!! Not even the chargable Sigils for weapons do that (at least not till u die or change zone wich is fair enough)! Plz make this Trait work like the chargable Sigils.

And Plz make the pets remember their names.
I have (and I guess many others with me) have been waiting for this since pre release.

JonPeters.5630:

Hello JonPeters,
first of all thank you for all your interest in helping ranger class (I have to admit I doubted you would you have done).
I and, the entire ranger comunity (I suppose it is obvious) really appreciate.

I have some suggestion about “how to solve f2 skill lag” and “what to add to Greatsword auto attack chain”.

1) (f2 skill lag)
what about to change the f2 function in order to make it a “ranger skill” and not a “pet skill”? In this way rangers can actively use f2 skills and get a great tactical advantage. This will solve the f2 lag simly because f2 is no longer a pet skill but a ranger one.
Just an example:
(spider) f2 = spider’s next 3 attacks poison your enemy
with this correction:
(spider) f2 = ranger’s next 3 attacks poison your enemy
(here you can add some variation in order to balance it, like to reduce the number of poisoning attacks from 3 to 2 etc.)

2) (gs auto attack chain)
what about to add a stealth factor like a “2 sec stealth”? Stealth may help us to avoid enemies like a “ranger” would do “hiding himself in the wild” and it is required for traits and we still have only a way to get it (longbow)…

Thank you for all.

Quarktastic.1027:

coglin.1867:

Substance E.4852:

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

No, not really. After leveling the last of my 8 professions to 80 at the first of the year, one thing I really learned, is that players like you, like to claim “actual combat understanding” when you don’t know jack about the other professions to make a comparison.

Particularly Your laughable comments about condition removal. Every player always tries to convince the sane people, that their current main is the worst profession at everything and subsequently needs to be buffed at everything. You prove that in particular, by with the comical effort you put into trying to down play every skill. Your kidding yourself if you believe the other professions cannot list issues with each of their skills as well.

Allow me to list all of the ranger’s condition removal skills/traits, and their drawbacks.

• Empathic bond: Transfers 3 conditions to your pet every 10 seconds. Only functions if your pet is alive, and within range (maximum range unconfirmed)
• Evasive purity: Dodging removes poison and blind. Only removes the two aforementioned conditions, costs a dodge roll.
• Signet of renewal: Passive- remove a condition every 10 seconds. Active- pet draws all conditions from nearby allies to itself. Active only works if your pet is alive, and within 600 range.
• Healing spring: Removes one condition every 2 seconds while standing in the field, and one condition upon activation. Must remain in the field to receive the full effect.
• Nature’s renewal: removes 5 conditions and revives up to 3 downed allies. Elite skill, 600 range, can only be used twice every 240 seconds, spirit can be killed rather easily.

Objectively, healing spring is our most useful condition removal skill, but it also happens to be tied to one of our better healing skills. The rest of our condition removal is either passive, requires our pet to be both alive and nearby, or has a tremendously long cooldown.

In comparison, guardians have:

• Inscribed removal: Activating a signet removes a condition. Turns every signet into an active condition cleanse.
• Purity: remove a condition every 10 seconds. Passive.
• Pure of Voice: allies affected by shouts convert one condition into a boon. Turns every shout into an AoE cleanse.
• Signet of resolve: passive. remove a condition every 10 seconds, can be traited to remove two conditions with perfect inscriptions.
• Ray of judgement: Cures a condition on each ally it strikes. Only bounces 4 times, allies must be in range to be affected.
• Purifying blast: Cure a condition on allies. Underwater only.
• Purging flames: Cures 3 conditions upon activation.
• Contemplation of purity: Converts all conditions into boons.
• Smite condition: Cures one condition and inflicts damage to nearby foes.

The list seems a bit biased, but guardians are the clear winners when it comes to condition removal. Guardians have far more active cleanses, and they come with far fewer stipulations.

Add the brown bear: same problem with the F2 delay and… it’s a bear

Atherakhia.4086:

Do you have something you’d like to discuss in particular? Or are you going to continue dancing?

Wow. Now I remember why I avoided the ranger forums. So many ridiculously rude posters. It is a shame really. Dancing? Really? I was fairly specific to mention a very specific topic. I was attempting to discuss how endurance regeneration and vigor was changing across the board. Apparently that was a bad idea though, because it is obvious how bad you guys bash posters who do not see it as you do.

And you guys make threads complaining about devs not posting here. I wouldn’t either if I was them, seeing as how you guys attack posters here.

Chokolata.1870:

Actually , that passive endurance regeneration trait accounts for most of rangers survivability across all builds . Why ?

And the adept tier vigor trait accounts for most of Engineers defense, Guardians have one of the lower health pools, the need vigor to do anything other then all defensive AH builds. Mesmers need critical infusion, they have way less direct survivability.

My point is, to see so many post going nuts about Natural vigor, when we still have Primal reflexes, is completely unnecessary. And I get that you guys feel our endurance regeneration is important for survivability, well it is the same for every profession, like it or not, and they are all changing.

Einlanzer.1627:

mzt.3270:

@ Einlanzer.1627

Quote " People who can’t escape from HAVING to label classes as melee or ranged classes have issues. GW2 has handled this right by giving every class a variety of options that are meant to tactically supplement one another.

Oh, and in case it hasn’t been said yet in this thead. The label ‘Ranger’ is equivalent to a warden, not a ranged weapons master"

Ahh I see, Anets vision of ranger must have been modelled on this guy then

Nice attempt at sarcasm, but you fail. It was molded on the D&D ranger, like almost every class named ranger, which ultimately leads back to Aragorn in LotR. So yes, it was molded after the wilderness warden archetype.

If rangers were truly modeled after D&D and Aragorn we would be truly feared. As it is rangers are shunned because they are said to be not effective and that other classes can basically do what rangers do and do them better.

To be truly modeled after D&D and Aragorn here are few ideas:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.(Say 10% less than the warrior for melee) And bow damage output should be unrivaled by any other class. Rangers should be truly feared by all at range.
- A natural 25% speed buff that doesn’t require signets. And add a signet that speed buffs allies in or out of party (5 max).
- The true ability to “take down” enemies at a distance.
- The ability to actually detect and target invisible foes.
- High resistance to any condition like disease or poison.
- Endurance regen should be boosted, not nerfed.

But these will never happen. And rangers will continue to be the laughingstock of PvP and WvW. As for playing PvE I never have a problem and one of my guildies always says rangers are overpowered.

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

As far as all of the D&D talk and references to lotr, well I find it really comical myself. Some people love to ignore boundaries and lore differences. Its very poor thinking to compare anything refereed to as a “ranger” in another book, movie or game, to that of another. By this logic, all “rangers” should throw 100 mph fast balls, because the “ranger” you saw in a movie about Nolan Ryan could do it.

I see too many videos like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o23VuRNc7nE
to believe all of this gloom and doom that rangers are so OP. When I combine that with my own experience, I just laugh. There are 3 other professions that need waaaaaay more help then the ranger profession right now.

coglin.1867:

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

Notice, I said PvE is no problem. Lupi is PvE mob, and rangers are very good, if not perfect for PvE. Lupi is an AI that is easy to predict and rangers don’t have to take the close up damage that he and his minions can do, while the warrior must contend with being pointblank on target. I’ve soloed Lupi at least 3 or 4 times…I should’ve recorded it – if I had that set up. Kiting is the key to AI mobs.

Ranger vs Warrior: No matter the DPS difference in the beginning of the fight, once a warrior has closed the distance, and they do this very fast(as do many other classes), the ranger’s DPS means nothing. All the DPS you’ve done has hardly affected the warrior and he Hammers you down and keeps you down. Kiting doesn’t work very well on players, since they have ways to reach you and will use them at every opportunity.

On a side note:
Classes like elementalist, mesmer and necromancer should have a massive damage nerf with any and all melee weapons.
Elementalists are spell casters not fighters.
Necromancers deal in undead minions, disease and life force draining and are not fighters.
Mesmers are illusion masters and shouldn’t even be able to lift a great sword.

coglin.1867:

Atherakhia.4086:

Do you have something you’d like to discuss in particular? Or are you going to continue dancing?

Wow. Now I remember why I avoided the ranger forums. So many ridiculously rude posters. It is a shame really. Dancing? Really? I was fairly specific to mention a very specific topic. I was attempting to discuss how endurance regeneration and vigor was changing across the board. Apparently that was a bad idea though, because it is obvious how bad you guys bash posters who do not see it as you do.

And you guys make threads complaining about devs not posting here. I wouldn’t either if I was them, seeing as how you guys attack posters here.

Chokolata.1870:

Actually , that passive endurance regeneration trait accounts for most of rangers survivability across all builds . Why ?

And the adept tier vigor trait accounts for most of Engineers defense, Guardians have one of the lower health pools, the need vigor to do anything other then all defensive AH builds. Mesmers need critical infusion, they have way less direct survivability.

My point is, to see so many post going nuts about Natural vigor, when we still have Primal reflexes, is completely unnecessary. And I get that you guys feel our endurance regeneration is important for survivability, well it is the same for every profession, like it or not, and they are all changing.

You make 5 posts back to back that say absolutely nothing and just continue an argument with someone else and then you claim it’s the Ranger community that is responsible? Come on… you’re just as responsible as anyone else.

If you want to discuss the regen, that’s fine. Most people recognize that ANet is attempting to cut vigor regen across the board. As Rangers, it’s met with some resistance because the improvements to offset this loss of defense are minimal while most feel the class as a whole is in no position to take these kinds of nerfs on the chin and keep on going.

Not everyone plays spirits in sPvP. Some play power builds in WvW where success or failure is often caused by missing a single dodge. Some of us play WvW where the Ranger is consistently seen as the worst class there.

This class is horribly designed. Especially if you try to play outside the current sPvP meta. ANet has done very little to resolve these issues and in this very post we deal with ANet’s reasoning why so little has been changed: because it isn’t easy. How do you expect players to feel who play a class with very obvious issues they’ve had going on a year now and to be told they aren’t even a consideration for improvement?

Heibi.4251:

coglin.1867:

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

Notice, I said PvE is no problem. Lupi is PvE mob, and rangers are very good, if not perfect for PvE. Lupi is an AI that is easy to predict and rangers don’t have to take the close up damage that he and his minions can do, while the warrior must contend with being pointblank on target. I’ve soloed Lupi at least 3 or 4 times…I should’ve recorded it – if I had that set up. Kiting is the key to AI mobs.

Ranger vs Warrior: No matter the DPS difference in the beginning of the fight, once a warrior has closed the distance, and they do this very fast(as do many other classes), the ranger’s DPS means nothing. All the DPS you’ve done has hardly affected the warrior and he Hammers you down and keeps you down. Kiting doesn’t work very well on players, since they have ways to reach you and will use them at every opportunity.

On a side note:
Classes like elementalist, mesmer and necromancer should have a massive damage nerf with any and all melee weapons.
Elementalists are spell casters not fighters.
Necromancers deal in undead minions, disease and life force draining and are not fighters.
Mesmers are illusion masters and shouldn’t even be able to lift a great sword.

Some of it I agree with, but that last line was hilarious. In real life, even the most enormous two-handed swords didn’t hit more than 7 pounds or so.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Heibi.4251:

coglin.1867:

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

Notice, I said PvE is no problem. Lupi is PvE mob, and rangers are very good, if not perfect for PvE. Lupi is an AI that is easy to predict and rangers don’t have to take the close up damage that he and his minions can do, while the warrior must contend with being pointblank on target. I’ve soloed Lupi at least 3 or 4 times…I should’ve recorded it – if I had that set up. Kiting is the key to AI mobs.

Ranger vs Warrior: No matter the DPS difference in the beginning of the fight, once a warrior has closed the distance, and they do this very fast(as do many other classes), the ranger’s DPS means nothing. All the DPS you’ve done has hardly affected the warrior and he Hammers you down and keeps you down. Kiting doesn’t work very well on players, since they have ways to reach you and will use them at every opportunity.

On a side note:
Classes like elementalist, mesmer and necromancer should have a massive damage nerf with any and all melee weapons.
Elementalists are spell casters not fighters.
Necromancers deal in undead minions, disease and life force draining and are not fighters.
Mesmers are illusion masters and shouldn’t even be able to lift a great sword.

Some of it I agree with, but that last line was hilarious. In real life, even the most enormous two-handed swords didn’t hit more than 7 pounds or so.

It’s true. A well made sword is surprisingly light for its size. Though, I doubt most people on this forum could swing around a 7 pound sword without hurting themselves.

The key part is – what the heck is an illusion master doing wielding a great sword? Makes absolutely no sense.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Heibi.4251:

coglin.1867:

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

Notice, I said PvE is no problem. Lupi is PvE mob, and rangers are very good, if not perfect for PvE. Lupi is an AI that is easy to predict and rangers don’t have to take the close up damage that he and his minions can do, while the warrior must contend with being pointblank on target. I’ve soloed Lupi at least 3 or 4 times…I should’ve recorded it – if I had that set up. Kiting is the key to AI mobs.

Ranger vs Warrior: No matter the DPS difference in the beginning of the fight, once a warrior has closed the distance, and they do this very fast(as do many other classes), the ranger’s DPS means nothing. All the DPS you’ve done has hardly affected the warrior and he Hammers you down and keeps you down. Kiting doesn’t work very well on players, since they have ways to reach you and will use them at every opportunity.

On a side note:
Classes like elementalist, mesmer and necromancer should have a massive damage nerf with any and all melee weapons.
Elementalists are spell casters not fighters.
Necromancers deal in undead minions, disease and life force draining and are not fighters.
Mesmers are illusion masters and shouldn’t even be able to lift a great sword.

Some of it I agree with, but that last line was hilarious. In real life, even the most enormous two-handed swords didn’t hit more than 7 pounds or so.

I can grantee you most of the great swords in game would give the buster sword a run for it’s money.

Re: Rangers Overall and the Class Mechanic

Pretty much everyone agrees that the pet is holding the Ranger back. I’ll summarize since it’s been discussed to death: too much DPS is assumed to come from the pet, an entity which doesn’t respond to commands on time, generally misbehaves, can be killed or CC’d, and generally just isn’t under the players control.

Pet AI doesn’t appear like it will be fixed, and removing the pet is another enormous rework, I propose the following compromise. Shift Ranger pets from a DPS-first role to a Utility-first role, and leave most of the DPS in the player’s hands. Perhaps an 80/20 split instead 60/40. This would require an extensive overview of pet abilities, but won’t require delving into AI coding or reworking the class core.

Examples of what kind of things could be done:
-Replace the many and unremarkable DPS F2 abilities with ones that grant boons, cause conditions, remove boons or conditions, create combo fields or finishers.
-Pets with low-power but useful passive abilities, similar to the Ranger’s Spotter trait. 10% Boon duration, condition duration, increased toughness, etc. Essentially turning a pet of this type into a mini-trait.
-More reliability on automatic pet skills, such as Birds granting swiftness, Canine’s knockdown, etc, or moving these effects to the active skill.
-Automatic Reaction pet skills, such as charging a foe that knocks down the ranger.
-More pet autoattacks with a utility function, such as Vulnerability (already on Cat), leeching health to the Ranger, whatever you guys can think of cause that’s it for me.

Now, that’s a lot of work, but the innate unreliability of pets means that relying on them for DPS is an insurmountable limitation on what the Ranger itself can do. With this general direction for pets, they still add a lot of utility, flavor and customization to the class, but shift more of the core gameplay directly to the players hands where it belongs. It also means pets will be more then just buff bots in pvp- ok, well, there would more then two such buffbots to choose from at least :P

o7

Heibi.4251:

The key part is – what the heck is an illusion master doing wielding a great sword? Makes absolutely no sense.

They aren’t wielding a greatsword – its a really big wand in their hands .

I’d like to edit a change I suggested about the great sword skills.

1. Replace evade on GS1 3rd strike with applying weakness
2. Maul removes x conditions from you on hit. If attack lands from target’s side or back, rends x boons off target
3. Swoop now has evade frames for the duration of the leap.
4. Stay as is
5. Stay as is

This would shift the Great Sword to the preferred defensive weapon as it was meant to be.

Heibi.4251:

coglin.1867:

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

Notice, I said PvE is no problem. Lupi is PvE mob, and rangers are very good, if not perfect for PvE. Lupi is an AI that is easy to predict and rangers don’t have to take the close up damage that he and his minions can do, while the warrior must contend with being pointblank on target. I’ve soloed Lupi at least 3 or 4 times…I should’ve recorded it – if I had that set up. Kiting is the key to AI mobs.

Ranger vs Warrior: No matter the DPS difference in the beginning of the fight, once a warrior has closed the distance, and they do this very fast(as do many other classes), the ranger’s DPS means nothing. All the DPS you’ve done has hardly affected the warrior and he Hammers you down and keeps you down. Kiting doesn’t work very well on players, since they have ways to reach you and will use them at every opportunity.

On a side note:
Classes like elementalist, mesmer and necromancer should have a massive damage nerf with any and all melee weapons.
Elementalists are spell casters not fighters.
Necromancers deal in undead minions, disease and life force draining and are not fighters.
Mesmers are illusion masters and shouldn’t even be able to lift a great sword.

Don’t forget the ability for engineers to somehow throw grenades the same distance we can shoot a bow! Seems legit.

Adminir.8140:

Don’t forget the ability for engineers to somehow throw grenades the same distance we can shoot a bow! Seems legit.

Take that up with the devs. I didn’t make the ability. It does take a 30 trait investment and 1 utility slot on a profession with no weapons swap to accomplish that though. How many trait points and utility slots do you have to use to hit at 1500 range?

Atherakhia.4086:

You make 5 posts back to back that say absolutely nothing and just continue an argument with someone else and then you claim it’s the Ranger community that is responsible? Come on… you’re just as responsible as anyone else.

So your suggesting he is the only poster claiming that dodging is rangers main form of damage mitigation as if it is not true to all professions? I can make a multi quote post just of this thread that would support that it is very many. You are welcome to turn a blind to what everyone else is saying, but I refuse to take the “ignorance is bliss” route. Whats worse, is you make your odd claim that I am as responsible as anyone, when I am very literally arguing against the foolish mentality that dodge, as a mitigation mechanic is so much more valuable to one profession over the others, when its not> you guys are really good at subtle, yet illogical attacks here when players disagree and present an opposing argument.

Atherakhia.4086:

If you want to discuss the regen, that’s fine. Most people recognize that ANet is attempting to cut vigor regen across the board. As Rangers, it’s met with some resistance because the improvements to offset this loss of defense are minimal while most feel the class as a whole is in no position to take these kinds of nerfs on the chin and keep on going.

Again, do you play other professions or visit other forums. This is the case for every professions discussion. You guys here pretend your unique to this when your not.

Adminir.8140:

Not everyone plays spirits in sPvP. Some play power builds in WvW where success or failure is often caused by missing a single dodge. Some of us play WvW where the Ranger is consistently seen as the worst class there.

Odd, I play an extreme amount of WvW, and I hear no such thing about rangers being the worst there. Oddly enough I can find tons of videos of rangers winning fights against multiple opponents all over the place, some of them mine.

Adminir.8140:

This class is horribly designed. Especially if you try to play outside the current sPvP meta. ANet has done very little to resolve these issues and in this very post we deal with ANet’s reasoning why so little has been changed: because it isn’t easy. How do you expect players to feel who play a class with very obvious issues they’ve had going on a year now and to be told they aren’t even a consideration for improvement?

You sure like to force your personal opinion as solid fact. Its like listening to my teenagers. I do not feel the class is designed badly in the least. Then again, every profession sub forum has your brethren, claiming their main class is the worst and is horribly designed.

Aside from myself, I have entirely too many guildies that main rangers, whose successes and achievements contradict everything your saying.

coglin.1867:

Atherakhia.4086:

If you want to discuss the regen, that’s fine. Most people recognize that ANet is attempting to cut vigor regen across the board. As Rangers, it’s met with some resistance because the improvements to offset this loss of defense are minimal while most feel the class as a whole is in no position to take these kinds of nerfs on the chin and keep on going.

Again, do you play other professions or visit other forums. This is the case for every professions discussion. You guys here pretend your unique to this when your not.

I play Necro, Thief, Warrior, Ranger, Elementalist. The point the other posters are making is while each of these classes relies on dodge (everyone does), other classes have a long list of other tools to supplement their dodges. Rangers on the other hand have very few. So while other classes are seeing vigor regen nerfed, few are in the same situation Rangers are in, and this is still the Ranger forum where we tend to discuss Rangers to the exclusion of everything else.

No one here is going to care if Engineers have it worse than Rangers… only that Rangers are getting nerfed and don’t have enough other tools to simply take these types of adjustments without compensation elsewhere.

Like I said earlier… not everyone is running a 0/0/30/30/10 build or something close to that. Those other builds have very little to fall back on outside of their dodge rolls and since ANet wanted to pretend this patch was going to help power builds, they’re the least capable of coping with this change.

I’m fine with the change. I’m fine with the justification that they’re nerfing regen across the board. It’s getting aggrivating though when ANet keeps making changes and introducing new content when they seem to forget this class even exists.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Solid Gold.9310:

“The Nightmare Within”.

More like “The Living Nightmare” for Rangers.

And more proof that content being added renders the pet utterly and totally useless.

…you guys run through the tower with your pets on aggressive? Set them on passive, stow them, and run with Signet of the Hunt. Don’t try to kill anything other than the group event bosses in you way, and get to the center so you can reach the next section. The entirety of surviving the tower is dependent on you playing smart and avoiding fights whenever possible. Basically, the equivalent of learning to survive in WvW and in Arah (where you have to dodge a LOT of mobs).

The real nightmare is trying to get through the hallways filled with mines when your pet triggers them and you are being put in almost perpetual combat mode.

Rhyse.8179:

Re: Rangers Overall and the Class Mechanic
…Shift Ranger pets from a DPS-first role to a Utility-first role, and leave most of the DPS in the player’s hands….turning a pet of this type into a mini-trait…

That. I like that.
It cannot dodge, it cannot react to red circles, ergo: It cannot survive. If 40% of my DPS actually does come from that, it just means I do 40% less DPS.
Turning the pet into an advantage rather than a foundation of my build seems very attractive to me, especially since I didn’t want a pet in the first place.
I had two builds in GW: One without pet at all, one in which my pet did 100,00% of my DPS.
I understand the point of class-mechanic/uniqueness, but – and I’m solely using the phrase because that is the name of the trope – at the moment, due to the high pet mortality, we are “blessed with suck” #3, quote:

Sometimes your power sounds really, really cool at first, but it turns out to have a lousy limitation or weakness, control problem, lacks the Required Secondary Powers, or (in the worst cases) has very dangerous side-effects.

Not implying pets were all of the above, but fact is what everyone else already said.

Substance E.4852:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Solid Gold.9310:

“The Nightmare Within”.

More like “The Living Nightmare” for Rangers.

And more proof that content being added renders the pet utterly and totally useless.

…you guys run through the tower with your pets on aggressive? Set them on passive, stow them, and run with Signet of the Hunt. Don’t try to kill anything other than the group event bosses in you way, and get to the center so you can reach the next section. The entirety of surviving the tower is dependent on you playing smart and avoiding fights whenever possible. Basically, the equivalent of learning to survive in WvW and in Arah (where you have to dodge a LOT of mobs).

The real nightmare is trying to get through the hallways filled with mines when your pet triggers them and you are being put in almost perpetual combat mode.

I actually was trying out a 30/30/0/10/0 build at the time, and had the grandmaster for the signets on me. Was using Signet of the Hunt, Signet of Stone, and Signet of the Wild along with Rampage as One, along with a greatsword on mainhand and an axe/warhorn on the other set. Use Warhorn #5 for swiftness combined with the active for Signet of the Wild for the stability gets you somewhat far along with the GS#3 being used to speed past the mines. Signet of Stone helps when you can’t get far enough, since it’ll prevent any damage from the explosions, and combined with Rampage as One you won’t even be launched.

The one thing I learned in that update was to run from everything you can run from. Every mob is trash, none are important to kill when you can just run away or past them.

Soilder.3607:

Xukavi.4320:

Raven.9603:

Rangers got run over by a bus of bad mechanics and broke every bone in their bodies.

Devs make a post asking for ideas to bandaid the problem because sadly, rangers dont have insurance… but players waste the last 10 pages talking about fixing our bones with experimental surgery so that one day we can walk again like its actually gonna get done.

(stop asking for spinal surgery and hip replacements, lets just stick to getting some sweet stickers for our wheelchair)

So by that logic we should give up on having a good working class mechanic and just try to buff other parts of the ranger?

“Summoned creature AI is a different can of worms that we aren’t opening for the same reason. Pets that delay F2 use isn’t some wait script we put into their skills it has to do with core AI behavior shared by all pets and creatures and how they decide tasks. Rewriting that has the risks of breaking millions of unknown things so we have up until now band aided the solution. It is something that needs addressing but won’t be addressed until we can kitten how and when we will test it.”

That is an actual post from JonPeters in this very thread confirming that pets are somewhat broken and highly unlikely to be fixed.

The most logical thing to do at this point is to buff things that are actually in control of the ranger.

They could take the F2 off the pet and make it a ranger skill, so that it activates instantly. IE, ranger applies stealth to the jaguar. Or ranger clears two conditions when bear is equipped. The pets should not have to cast them at all.

Chokolata.1870:

-New grandmaster trait * , Skirmishers gambit , critical hits transfer conditions , 2 per hit , ICD 10 seconds

I like this idea. It could open up some new options by allowing us to leave off EB.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Substance E.4852:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Solid Gold.9310:

“The Nightmare Within”.

More like “The Living Nightmare” for Rangers.

And more proof that content being added renders the pet utterly and totally useless.

…you guys run through the tower with your pets on aggressive? Set them on passive, stow them, and run with Signet of the Hunt. Don’t try to kill anything other than the group event bosses in you way, and get to the center so you can reach the next section. The entirety of surviving the tower is dependent on you playing smart and avoiding fights whenever possible. Basically, the equivalent of learning to survive in WvW and in Arah (where you have to dodge a LOT of mobs).

The real nightmare is trying to get through the hallways filled with mines when your pet triggers them and you are being put in almost perpetual combat mode.

I actually was trying out a 30/30/0/10/0 build at the time, and had the grandmaster for the signets on me. Was using Signet of the Hunt, Signet of Stone, and Signet of the Wild along with Rampage as One, along with a greatsword on mainhand and an axe/warhorn on the other set. Use Warhorn #5 for swiftness combined with the active for Signet of the Wild for the stability gets you somewhat far along with the GS#3 being used to speed past the mines. Signet of Stone helps when you can’t get far enough, since it’ll prevent any damage from the explosions, and combined with Rampage as One you won’t even be launched.

The one thing I learned in that update was to run from everything you can run from. Every mob is trash, none are important to kill when you can just run away or past them.

True, it wasn’t that much of a problem but it’s just another instance of where I felt the pet not being perma stow on demand is just a hindrance more than anything else.

Sube Dai.8496:

Chokolata.1870:

-New grandmaster trait * , Skirmishers gambit , critical hits transfer conditions , 2 per hit , ICD 10 seconds

I like this idea. It could open up some new options by allowing us to leave off EB.

Would definitely make up for having 0 weapon skills and only 1 utility that remove conditions.

We really need more options for pure power builds. Just having a chance to bleed on crit doesn’t mean much on a build who’s only condition damage will likely come from Wilderness.

Durzlla.6295:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

I don’t know where this myth that SPVP players are talented has come from considering the SPvP meta seems to be ‘go on forums and complain about all classes that aren’t yours, doubly so if class has pets’. Though they are very skilled at that I guess.

PvP players tend to be better than PvE players because if you kitten up in PvP, even just a tiny little bit like missing your cripple, it can be the difference between victory and defeat so PvPers tend to be a little better at the game as a whole.

Granted, this is only for competitive PvP players that are doing tournies regularly and are in it to win it, a hot join hero is gonna be about as good as your average zergling, and then there’s also some REALLY good PvE players too and etc.

Just by and large most PvPers tend to be better than most PvErs, but again there’s A LOT of different factors that play into it so don’t worry about it too much (like there being significantly less PvPers than PvE players).

You come to high level fractals or Arah/Aetherblade achiev/seed runs and manage not to get kicked within the first 10 minutes. Then you get to say PvP’ers are better.

It’s completely different skillsets.

I got every single Aether blade retreat achievement on a lv 40-50 staff ele in the equivalent of that levels zerker gear, I’ve almost finished everything in Arah (one path left more of a time commitment than everything, so far only boss we’ve wiped on was Melandru and even then it was stupid easy once I kited the gorillas around in another room), and speed clears are hardly a testament to skill, usually just builds that take advantage of the mechanics.

PS: I also killed Liadri

Are you serious? Because all I needed to do to kill Liadri was burst her down on my gimmick warrior build, and for the 7 lights achievement you could just abuse an acrobatics thief with shortbow to dodge spam and clear weakness/cripple on dodge for easymode achievements.

Those achievements you have mean nothing. It’s easy to get carried. I invite you to come to a fractal 48 run. I’d like to see you perform a full melee on the hierophant or mossman without going down. And no, I won’t provide you with two guardians.

sPvP is a den of gimmicks. You can’t seriously look at warriors or necromancers or at their previous incarnation bunker eles and tell me it wasn’t all a set of gimmick builds being abused.

Sube Dai.8496:

Soilder.3607:

Xukavi.4320:

Raven.9603:

Rangers got run over by a bus of bad mechanics and broke every bone in their bodies.

Devs make a post asking for ideas to bandaid the problem because sadly, rangers dont have insurance… but players waste the last 10 pages talking about fixing our bones with experimental surgery so that one day we can walk again like its actually gonna get done.

(stop asking for spinal surgery and hip replacements, lets just stick to getting some sweet stickers for our wheelchair)

So by that logic we should give up on having a good working class mechanic and just try to buff other parts of the ranger?

“Summoned creature AI is a different can of worms that we aren’t opening for the same reason. Pets that delay F2 use isn’t some wait script we put into their skills it has to do with core AI behavior shared by all pets and creatures and how they decide tasks. Rewriting that has the risks of breaking millions of unknown things so we have up until now band aided the solution. It is something that needs addressing but won’t be addressed until we can kitten how and when we will test it.”

That is an actual post from JonPeters in this very thread confirming that pets are somewhat broken and highly unlikely to be fixed.

The most logical thing to do at this point is to buff things that are actually in control of the ranger.

They could take the F2 off the pet and make it a ranger skill, so that it activates instantly. IE, ranger applies stealth to the jaguar. Or ranger clears two conditions when bear is equipped. The pets should not have to cast them at all.

If I understood the problem with f2 skills correctly, having the ranger use the skill either won’t work or it won’t fix the solution. Let me explain:

1- If the ranger is the one casting the skill then the ranger will have the animation which also means I need to cancel any skills I’m currently using to cast my pet’s skill.
2- Pet animations are there so that other players can visually see when to be able to dodge or evade their attacks. This is an action oriented game after all.
3- The core problem lies with pets needing an animation for the above reason which in combination with using AA’s and skills gets queued and ends up taking time which leads to the delay. As long as the pet does an animation it will get queued which will cause delay in activation bec of being queued with other actions
4- If we are to say that the player will apply the debuff itself it can lead to unsync between the skill being shown by the pet and you applying it.
5- The only solution I can think of in this case is to have pets not do the skill or animation (which is useless imo) and have the ranger do it all but that would lead to you having to stop using any skills to use your pet skill (sounds awkward don’t it?)

I haven’t read this whole forum and therefore don’t know if anyone else has brought this up. I personally love rangers but find most of there utilities useless. Trap’s are a utilitie skill that isn’t useless but is only accounted for one build. If arena net wants to open up more build oppurtunities then make more utilitie skills do stuff other than buff your pet.
As i type this i have realised survival skills, traps and spirits do consist of pet buffs. However as i said earlier this are only suited for one build.( Spirit build etc)
I want shouts to be buffed mostly. This require 40 traits to be useful and even then they aren’t useful.
I apologize for my poorely written argument (was going to blame it on my phone, then realised i wasn’t on my phone).
Mr Locus(Norn Ranger)
P.s More armour that isnt trench coats.

you are right. we need to invest 30-40-50 points to make a single utility/weapon to work. other professions skills are just good as they are and improving with traits.

Chopchop.5629:

P.s More armour that isnt trench coats.

I like the trenchcoats, they’re awesome. Just need moar consideration for Charr tails plz. Ty.

JonPeters.5630:

Summoned creature AI is a different can of worms that we aren’t opening for the same reason. Pets that delay F2 use isn’t some wait script we put into their skills it has to do with core AI behavior shared by all pets and creatures and how they decide tasks. Rewriting that has the risks of breaking millions of unknown things so we have up until now band aided the solution. It is something that needs addressing but won’t be addressed until we can kitten how and when we will test it.

Until the pets are properly addressed, and considering you guys want to keep them as core class mechanic, this whole thread is pointless band-aids. Right now you are balancing the class around a broken mechanic likely doing a lot of balance changes that will have to be redone once, if, pets are fixed.

I know I can only speak for myself here but this Ranger couldn’t care less about any of the balances you have proposed, if you fail to deal with the main source of issues for the class. I know it will be hard work and it might break a bunch of stuff, also it’ll be expensive to test. But you know what? I don’t care for excuses. If I read what you say correctly AI changes for pets would involve a lot of AI changes for other mobs. This is great! You should be using the task of improving pet AI to create much improved AI combat experiences across the whole game. Not only could you fix rangers, you could make dungeons more engaging, WvW guards more dangerous, bosses more active etc.

Stop with the band-aid balance solutions and skirting the real issue because it’s harder than your normal balance task. Everyone stands to benefit if you just take this challenge on and frankly some of us are getting pretty tired of waiting.

Rhaps.8540:

JonPeters.5630:

Summoned creature AI is a different can of worms that we aren’t opening for the same reason. Pets that delay F2 use isn’t some wait script we put into their skills it has to do with core AI behavior shared by all pets and creatures and how they decide tasks. Rewriting that has the risks of breaking millions of unknown things so we have up until now band aided the solution. It is something that needs addressing but won’t be addressed until we can kitten how and when we will test it.

Until the pets are properly addressed, and considering you guys want to keep them as core class mechanic, this whole thread is pointless band-aids. Right now you are balancing the class around a broken mechanic likely doing a lot of balance changes that will have to be redone once, if, pets are fixed.

I know I can only speak for myself here but this Ranger couldn’t care less about any of the balances you have proposed, if you fail to deal with the main source of issues for the class. I know it will be hard work and it might break a bunch of stuff, also it’ll be expensive to test. But you know what? I don’t care for excuses. If I read what you say correctly AI changes for pets would involve a lot of AI changes for other mobs. This is great! You should be using the task of improving pet AI to create much improved AI combat experiences across the whole game. Not only could you fix rangers, you could make dungeons more engaging, WvW guards more dangerous, bosses more active etc.

Stop with the band-aid balance solutions and skirting the real issue because it’s harder than your normal balance task. Everyone stands to benefit if you just take this challenge on and frankly some of us are getting pretty tired of waiting.

QFT!

The only way to make pets so they aren’t a liability to the ranger is to make them an extension to us. Meaning they cannot be attacked or targeted; they cant put us into combat, and they are given an 100% hit rate.

If we are to rely on them for a good chunk our dps, then that dps needs to be constant. I don’t see other classes losing 40% of their dps for a good chunk of any battle.

Then there is the issue of hit rate. Even if the ranger is given a 100% hit rate, our pets are still missing a certain % of their attacks which still puts us at a dps disadvantage.

I’m all fine for having the pet as a core mechanic, but it needs to be done in such a way that we don’t lose a significant portion of our dps; and not be kept in combat.

So unless Anet figures out a way around us not losing a portion of our dps half the time, we’ll always be at a disadvantage.

CETheLucid.3964:

Chopchop.5629:

P.s More armour that isnt trench coats.

I like the trenchcoats, they’re awesome. Just need moar consideration for Charr tails plz. Ty.

Lack of choices is never awesome.