Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I come here to talk about the most recent empathic bond fix.

While i know that the ability’s description said that the conditions were supposed to be transferred, and not cured, i still think that the old way was better and worthy of grandmaster title.

I mean, we are complaining that our pets die too quickly, and this change takes this issue to extremes to whoever uses empathic bond.

This trait provides us with no real benefits. Seeing as our pets deal 50% of our damage, using this trait quickly rids us of 50% of our damage. So sure, the ranger will live longer, but at 50% effectiveness. So even if we live two times as long, it won’t matter, because we will be useless.

The above example isn’t very accurate, but it helps explain some of the issues with this change. Other classes have decent passive condition removal, and failsafe condition removal. What i mean by failsafe condition removal is:
ZOMG I HAVE 7 CONDITIONS ON ME, SAVE ME UTILITY NUMBER 1!
Engineers have something that not only cures conditions, but transforms them into boons. The equivalent we have to this kills our pet. Again, the 50% effectiveness dilemma .

Empathic bond used to fill this gap, any condition removal we now have kills our pet.

After this patch, we have no spiked condition heal, only steady passive ones.

This update killed two of the builds i had, for PVE and PVP. One depended on the Food Buff, and the other one on condition removal.

I ask you guys to reconsider this change, providing us with a grandmaster trait worthy of the title. Keep the 3 conditions limit, but make it cure instead of transfer.

Thanks,
Alex

No it’s fine. Cond removal is way too strong in this game (except for warrs lulz). With hs and old eb I was basically immune to conditions. Even now ranger cond removal is very strong

We have three abilities with condition removal (not taking the pet’s F2 into account).

• Signet of Renewal – The passive is good but the active destroys your pet
• Empathic Bond – kills your pet.
• Healing Spring – is the only worthwhile one in PVE. In SPVP, it’s an AOE mark for the enemy.

How is that strong?

The old EB healed ALL conditions. I’m not asking for that back, i know its overpowered. I’m only asking for the transferred conditions to be healed.

I think they could balance it out by buffing Signet of the Renewal. It wouldn’t be as OP since you’d be using up a utility slot instead.

First of all – does anyone know how many conditions Healing Spring cures per pulse?

But yes, other than that our condition removal is very weak now.

Empathic Bond – requires pet to be alive, is 3 conditions per 10s (which is good), but cannot be triggered at will.

Signet of Renewal – passive is 1 cond per 10s (pretty standard), but the active is both on a huge cooldown, requires the pet to be alive and will likely kill the pet in a group situation.

I honsetly do understand the changes to Empathic Bond, at least in theory. What I don’t understand is that it was a strait change, without anything to make up for the now lack of condition removal. I mean, warriors now have access to better condition removal if they choose to use it.

Moreover, it’s not even like the old Empathic Bond was that amazing. Yes it was powerful, but only until the enemy focused the pets down.

In the end, none of the other classes are reliant on something being alive/active etc. for their removal to work.

Healing Spring removes one condition per pulse. Kinda annoying when you drop it and a mob drops a poison field right on top of it. It’s a good idea to move a bit after dropping HS so this doesn’t happen. The mob’s AOE field will be centered on you, and if you’re standing where you were when you dropped HS, the two circles will exactly overlay each other. If you move a bit, the circles are slightly offset, and there will usually be a small slice of HS you can move to without being in the AOE field.

Yeah Signet of Renewal has a rather long cooldown. But it’s also one of the most powerful condition removals in the game since it’ll remove all conditions from all allies nearby.

In a way that’s really the problem with the ranger’s condition removals – it’s feast or famine. Either your build sucks at condition removal, or it has some of the best condition removal in the game. There’s nothing in between.

The conditions being transferred to the pet shouldn’t really be a problem unless you’re running a master’s bond build. Simply swap the pet after it takes all the conditions. That mechanic works well with Signet of Renewal, but not so well with Empathic Bond since you have to watch for when your conditions get transferred to your pet.

Put points in BM or use a tanker pet or swap your pet… I love what they did last patch now it takes 3 conditions as opposed to 1 … If anything the signet needs a buff 1 every 10 seconds is garbage waste of a utility spot

ranger does not have much condition removal compared to all other profession and whatever left that we have is also the most unreliable because our pets need to be alive and near us for it to be effective.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

scroll down to the list of condition removal and compare rangers with other profession in terms of condition removal

fakeblood.2576:

Put points in BM or use a tanker pet or swap your pet… I love what they did last patch now it takes 3 conditions as opposed to 1 … If anything the signet needs a buff 1 every 10 seconds is garbage waste of a utility spot

Before the change, EB took all conditions.

@Fakeblood – Empathic Bond used to take all conditions from you and cure it, not transfer it. Doesn’t matter if you have the tankiest pet ever, he WILL die considerably faster with empathic bond, enough to make the trait worthless.
Try playing spvp and having a necro cast wells on you. Or walking on a ranger’s trap. Your pet will spontaneously combust.

How do rangers have some of the best condition removal in the game? Most other classes have more options for condition removal, some even on weapon skills. Necros, Guardians, Mesmers, and Engineers can actually transfer conditions to opponents and/or convert them into boons. Rangers have only three options for condition removal, two of which kill your pet. It’s the only class in the game that suffers a penalty for wiping a condition, and a pretty severe one at that.

IMO Empathic Bond and Signet of Renewal should transfer conditions to your pet and convert them to boons, or at least heals.

Daemon.4295:

How do rangers have some of the best condition removal in the game? Most other classes have more options for condition removal, some even on weapon skills. Necros, Guardians, Mesmers, and Engineers can actually transfer conditions to opponents and/or convert them into boons. Rangers have only three options for condition removal, two of which kill your pet. It’s the only class in the game that suffers a penalty for wiping a condition, and a pretty severe one at that.

IMO Empathic Bond and Signet of Renewal should transfer conditions to your pet and convert them to boons, or at least heals.

Yes I agree with this, although the boons/heals aren’t needed.

It’s wrong that the ranger is the only profession that has to choose between 2 negative effects. It’s either the ranger or the pet has to suffer the conditions.

The conditions shouldn’t transfer to the pet and also shouldn’t require a pet. Rather it should say: “removes a condition from both the ranger and the pet”.

It also means we basically have no condition removal available for pets other than healing spring.

Holland.9351:

Daemon.4295:

How do rangers have some of the best condition removal in the game? Most other classes have more options for condition removal, some even on weapon skills. Necros, Guardians, Mesmers, and Engineers can actually transfer conditions to opponents and/or convert them into boons. Rangers have only three options for condition removal, two of which kill your pet. It’s the only class in the game that suffers a penalty for wiping a condition, and a pretty severe one at that.

IMO Empathic Bond and Signet of Renewal should transfer conditions to your pet and convert them to boons, or at least heals.

Yes I agree with this, although the boons/heals aren’t needed.

It’s wrong that the ranger is the only profession that has to choose between 2 negative effects. It’s either the ranger or the pet has to suffer the conditions.

The conditions shouldn’t transfer to the pet and also shouldn’t require a pet. Rather it should say: “removes a condition from both the ranger and the pet”.

It also means we basically have no condition removal available for pets other than healing spring.

I agree that it isn’t necessary, but I can see why the devs wanted the pet mechanic to play into our condition removal. Damaging pets through condition removal is IMO intolerable though, so if anything they should receive a buff or heal.

as i said, there’s too much boon removal in the game and it needs to be nerfed, which is what theyre starting to do slowly across all profs except the ones that matter (guard and ele).

I think Signet of Renewal should remove a condition from you AND your pet every 10 seconds. All other ranger signets affect both the ranger and the pet. The active is great, but it ultimately harms your pet, unlike the other signets. Perhaps the active should also heal the pet for each condition it pulls.

Daemon.4295:

How do rangers have some of the best condition removal in the game?

Signet of Renewal’s active transfers all conditions from all nearby allies to your pet. Guardians and necros can also draw conditions from all nearby allies to themselves, but they need a second skill to get rid of them or convert them to boons. All a ranger has to do is swap pets and those conditions are gone. The mesmer null field is the only other single-skill AOE all-condition removal I know of.

Healing spring is an AOE condition removal every 3 seconds for 15 sec (up to 6 conditions removed per person).

The “remove conditions every 10 seconds” skllls/traits for other classes removes just one. Empathic Bond even in nerfed form transfers 3 to the pet every 10 sec. The closest equivalent is the necro trait that transfers one condition per minion every 10 sec. But minions are broken even worse than pets.

But like I said, it’s feast or famine. Most rangers don’t have the right build to get empathic bond. And most do not run with signet of renewal. Eliminate those and aside from healing spring the ranger condition removal options are paltry.

Pro tip: Signet of Renewal then Pet Swap = Profit!

Please revert back the empathic bond. K thanks bye

Diehard.1432:

Please revert back the empathic bond. K thanks bye

Uh nope.

The issue I see with empathic bond and really most of the condition removal (well most utilities actually) is that they are counter productive or go against the idea in which ranger is based. Healing spring forces loss of mobility to get the most out of the heals condition removal.

Looking to face a lot of condition options hope they land while you pet has enough health left to take it and/or the cd on switch is up. Or we kill the pet, reducing the overall effectiveness of the Ranger.

Empathic Bond change was bit of a slap as a grand master trait. If that its the kind of balancing we are going to see I for one want to see the other professions hit with similar changes, such as but not limited to Signet of Power (thief) reduced to 1 stack of might, and a general increase in cool down on the other profession signets.

Perhaps a middle ground approach for it would be to have the pet remove (not transfer) 3 condition every ten seconds.

Bran.7425:

Perhaps a middle ground approach for it would be to have the pet remove (not transfer) 3 condition every ten seconds.

I agree with this. It would be best if it the trait reverts back to how it was, but this is also a decent suggestion.

I’m not fully aware of how condition removal works on all the other classes, but do they also get punished for removing conditions like the ranger?

No, not a single other class is punished for condition wipes. There are skills that draw all conditions from party members to the character, but they’re designed to work in synergy with condition transfer (eg. Necro signet of spite draws conditions on passive, transfers to target on active).

If empathic bond and signet of renewal passive wiped conditions from you and your pet, then I guess I could tolerate transferring to pet on SoR active. You’d just have to plan on pet swapping immediately after.

I think signet of renewal is good the way it is, the only things i would change is:
Reduce cooldown because it’s too high for what it does, i’d say 35 would be decent and cure conditions on both pet and master.

I also think we need a skill that removes multiple conditions (failsafe condition removal), like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina

At one point or another we did have it and surprise it was taken away.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antidote_Signet

Wow that antidote skill is exactly what i wanted. Why would they take it away?

Not a clue I don’t think it made it to the beta weekends.

Sweet spot would be 5 condi removed not 3.

The more I duel, the more I realize this trait is kittening me over pretty bad now, I need a way to get rid of conditions, but its gimping my damage at the same time by screwing my already moronic pet up.

AlexRD.7914:

We have three abilities with condition removal (not taking the pet’s F2 into account).

• Signet of Renewal – The passive is good but the active destroys your pet

Activate and then immediately swap pet. You get a nice fresh beasty with full health and a heart full of love… until it learns that you are using it as a meat shield.

“Activate and then immediately swap pet. You get a nice fresh beasty with full health and a heart full of love… until it learns that you are using it as a meat shield.”

Try that with a fight against someone who knows the ranger class, the EB trait transferrence time and also the duration on your pet cycles. Let me know how that works out for ya. He’s just going to restack at 9seconds, knowing it will transfer and then blast on your pet. Pet gone in seconds but also, why should we have to do all of that JUST to have condition removal on par with other classes? Also, you lose passive condtiion removal while it’s on Cooldown. Unacceptable.

It’s all fine and dandy when you’re fighting normal people who aren’t really good at pvp, once you start fighting good people though, you start seeing how bad this trait hurts us.

Honestly, the trait kills us passively now, because 40-50% of our damage (which isn’t even the case because the AI is so horrid anyway) is supposed to be pet damage. It opens up easy combos onto our pet which already suck and die quick but it also hinders our damage producing because snares on an already horrid pet ai is devastating.

They die quickly already, and after doing testing with full BM they still die alot faster even with regen.

Unfortunately it’s the best trait we have , if you don’t use it, you have to use up a utility slot and a heal spot regardless, if you don’t you’ll die because you have no condi removal period.

It’s pretty bad , and needs to atleast be removal of 3 completely and not transferred to pet… Every other class gets not only condi removal (some get it passively via traits) but even conversion to boons, it’s just utterly ridiculous and needs to be fixed.

Bran.7425:

At one point or another we did have it and surprise it was taken away.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antidote_Signet

LOL Did they really think that was overpowered? /facepalm

Obsidian.1328:

Bran.7425:

At one point or another we did have it and surprise it was taken away.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antidote_Signet

LOL Did they really think that was overpowered? /facepalm

Removing all conditions on a 25 second (untraited) cooldown? I don’t know of any other class which has that much removal in a single skill.

Quarktastic.1027:

Obsidian.1328:

Bran.7425:

At one point or another we did have it and surprise it was taken away.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antidote_Signet

LOL Did they really think that was overpowered? /facepalm

Removing all conditions on a 25 second (untraited) cooldown? I don’t know of any other class which has that much removal in a single skill.

Why would that matter in the long run there are plenty of design differences (skills/traits/etc) between the professions that are not balanced against what the other profession have/can do?

Bran.7425:

Quarktastic.1027:

Obsidian.1328:

Bran.7425:

At one point or another we did have it and surprise it was taken away.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antidote_Signet

LOL Did they really think that was overpowered? /facepalm

Removing all conditions on a 25 second (untraited) cooldown? I don’t know of any other class which has that much removal in a single skill.

Why would that matter in the long run there are plenty of design differences (skills/traits/etc) between the professions that are not balanced against what the other profession have/can do?

It isn’t true anyway, other classes can transfer all conditions, heal off them, or convert them to boons.

Quarktastic.1027:

Obsidian.1328:

Bran.7425:

At one point or another we did have it and surprise it was taken away.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antidote_Signet

LOL Did they really think that was overpowered? /facepalm

Removing all conditions on a 25 second (untraited) cooldown? I don’t know of any other class which has that much removal in a single skill.

Well, there’s these…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phoenix
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purge_Conditions

Consume Conditions is probably the best self-heal/cleanse in the game. Having Signet of Renewal only cleanse conditions in the same 25 second tick hardly seems OP, since its passive is a standard “1 per 10sec”

And these…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Contemplation_of_Purity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purging_Flames
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet

I’m sure I’m missing a bunch, that’s just thinking of my necro and guardian. I like Plague Signet active better than Consume Conditions, why wipe when you can transfer?

^ Ah true, transferring them would be the better option. It’s a lot higher recharge though, and each condition of Consume that you cleanse = more health gained.

For larger groups, Plague Signet would be better hands down though.

AlexRD.7914:

We have three abilities with condition removal (not taking the pet’s F2 into account).

• Signet of Renewal – The passive is good but the active destroys your pet
• Empathic Bond – kills your pet.
• Healing Spring – is the only worthwhile one in PVE. In SPVP, it’s an AOE mark for the enemy.

How is that strong?

The old EB healed ALL conditions. I’m not asking for that back, i know its overpowered. I’m only asking for the transferred conditions to be healed.

Well, considering Signet of the Wild regeneration exceeds most of what empathic bond will end up sending your pet, I don’t see why you’re so mad?

Its not the damage that gets you, its the Chills/Cripples on your pet that do.

Xsorus.2507:

Its not the damage that gets you, its the Chills/Cripples on your pet that do.

Yeah, if you run 0/0/30/10/30

Doesn’t matter what you run, if you have Empathetic Bond, its going to gut some of your damage because your pet is always going to be apart of you. So you can either have no condition removal worth anything, Or you can take a damage nerf.

“Doesn’t matter what you run, if you have Empathetic Bond, its going to gut some of your damage because your pet is always going to be apart of you. So you can either have no condition removal worth anything, Or you can take a damage nerf.”

Exactly, it hurts you even more if you run anything OTHER than 0/0/30/10/30. I run a 0/0/30/30/5/5 and my pet is dead within 10 seconds now. How is that viable dude?

The best trait in our defensive line just got a hardcore nerf nuke and the only trait we can really use (or be forced to waste a utility slot on passive and a kittenty heal that does nothing except if you’re in team situations) now just passively kills us. Alot of the work for our opponents is already done now.

Only thing you could do is barkskin , but now you have to use up a utility slot and a heal slot to even get SOME condi removal, if you don’t use any of those. You will die to practically anyone. So yea, it’s a kittened up situation and it really underpowers an already broken and underpowered class.

The saddest part is that every other class got buffs overall this last month while we got probably the biggest nerf to a GRANDMASTER trait anyone could get since the game has been released.

I’m sorry, but this is unacceptable… If we had more passive condi removal i could see this being an optional trait, but it’s something we simply have to have if we want condi removal but the crux is that now it just owns us passively.

It’s quite kittened up.

Besides, signet of the wild would NEVER heal enough to balance out the conditions. Even more so poison that affects healing (is signet of the wild affected by poison?) . I think a single burning stack would outweigh the heals.

“I think a single burning stack would outweigh the heals.”

Exactly, and by the way engis can keep borderline perma burning in fights so yea , try getting signet of the wild to cover that dmg for ya and let me know how that goes.

AlexRD.7914:

Wow that antidote skill is exactly what i wanted. Why would they take it away?

Because they took all of our fun utilities away in alpha… First preps were taken away and given to thieves as “venoms”, then forage and camouflage/ambush, then comfort animal (cure pet of all conditions and put it at full health, will Rez it to full health if dead, 2s cast 60s CD), and most importantly, our signets became pretty lackluster and on a WAY too long of a CD, not to mention Alpha Strike… And the Chain Skill on Rampage As One (never rampage alone, Rez your pet and give it your might, fury, and stability)

AlexRD.7914:

Besides, signet of the wild would NEVER heal enough to balance out the conditions. Even more so poison that affects healing (is signet of the wild affected by poison?) . I think a single burning stack would outweigh the heals.

All healing is affected by poison, well healing on the victim.

@Everyonr else, well, you could always take a brown bear and get “Shake It Off!” Just saying….

“@Everyonr else, well, you could always take a brown bear and get “Shake It Off!” Just saying….”

You might as well jus use the sigil that removes a condition on 60% critical to be honest and skip using that worthless pet.

Sigil of Purity:
60% chance to remove condition on critical, 10 second cooldown.
Sigil of Generosity:
60% chance to transfer condition to foe on critical, 10 second cooldown.

Bear pet is great in pve though.

Ryan.8367:

“@Everyonr else, well, you could always take a brown bear and get “Shake It Off!” Just saying….”

You might as well jus use the sigil that removes a condition on 60% critical to be honest and skip using that worthless pet.

Sigil of Purity:
60% chance to remove condition on critical, 10 second cooldown.
Sigil of Generosity:
60% chance to transfer condition to foe on critical, 10 second cooldown.

Bear pet is great in pve though.

Well I use a bear in PvP on my GC build for condi removal + Protect Me! Bears can live through a freaking nuclear bomb going off let alone a few back stabs xD

The way I see it, if Anet do change anything, they’ll make the pet cure conditions but make 1 every 10s or 2 every 15s.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

The way I see it, if Anet do change anything, they’ll make the pet cure conditions but make 1 every 10s or 2 every 15s.

Why would they nerf the trait? It’s in a good place at the moment, we should get a buff to the signet though, either the CD or Passive, I feel like the grand master trait though is in a good spot, it fits in the same area as Shared Anguish where you use a pet more as your personal shield than as a friendly companion (just take a sturdy pet)