Guild Wars 2

Seems like the previous patch gave the frost spirit the 10 second recharge that other spirits have. I’ll quote myself from another topic.

Taku.6352:

Based on my 10 minute pony spam session against indestructible golems I’m 90% certain that they’ve put the 10s recharge on FS.

Without amulet, sigils, runes, and traits my auto attack on SB ranged from 123 to 136 and when frost spirit procced (usually off CD ) I got about 140-146 ticks at the same intervals as i got the effect from other spirits which we know to have 10 second recharge.

And on LB 2 and axe offhand 5 I only got one proc per cast.

PS. They really need to put back the steady weapons to pvp so people can test properly. >_>

If it is true then one of the few reasons to have a ranger for dungeons is now gone and even with the upcoming buffs we’ll still be left in the dust with necros.

Noooooooo

Why u do dis Anet? I guess I will have to try this myself when I get back home.

Lol, obviously there were too many ranger’s in dungeons and something had to be done about it.

This reminds me of when they nerfed Frost in WvW so it would no longer affect siege. Reasonable, but we were kitten useful for a time.

Now (might be a bug) that frost spirit is utter garbage what percentage increase does it give a parties damage traited and untraited?

RIP Ranger dev guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y8uGM1CGV8g#t=790

I miss the days when a mere tooltip fix was enough to deal with these sorts of things.

Thanks for cracking me up though, I now have Another One Bites the Dust stuck in my head. Official Ranger balance theme song, anyone?

On a serious note, can anyone else confirm that it is indeed “fixed”?

ye, nerfed.

i prefer another fractal reset to 1 if it would revert this change

conn.2097:

ye, nerfed.

i prefer another fractal reset to 1 if it would revert this change

Same here. In fact I would prefer if my fractal access got disabled instead of this :d

FS is now so far beyond useless it’s ridiculous. It boosts party damage by, what is it, like 1% or so? Compare that to one single application — not even a stack — just 1 vulnerability. Absolutely brutal.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter's_Boon_

Fluffball.8307:

FS is now so far beyond useless it’s ridiculous. It boosts party damage by, what is it, like 1% or so? Compare that to one single application — not even a stack — just 1 vulnerability. Absolutely brutal.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter's_Boon_

lol Anyone want to crunch the numbers and see if simply planting a storm spirit on top of the boss and letting off 1 call lightning per spirit is actually a bigger damage contribution per summon?

Sina.9208:

conn.2097:

ye, nerfed.

i prefer another fractal reset to 1 if it would revert this change

Same here. In fact I would prefer if my fractal access got disabled instead of this :d

Don’t give them any ideas! D:

Humm.. I’m actually sad about this. In the current state the skill will never be used.
If they would actually fix the skill by removing the 10 ICD and skill fact, that would be great.

Thats my 2 cents

I’m really hoping this was accidental somehow. Just as I was getting more faith in their balancing of the game, they pull something completely stupid like this. What, were rangers pushing other classes out of dungeon runs or something? This makes no sense at all, man.

Fractal and dungeon access might as well be disabled if they’re taking away our party support.

Part of me kind of hopes this is true because I still have a very “Welcome to the Twilight Zone…” feel about getting an update with 0 nerfs.

I’m that conditioned at this point -_-

Ya know, it might be a a sign by ANet

“Have you tried our PvE Holy Trinity yet?”

To be honest, it doesn’t bother me anymore. I rolled my speedclearing Ele almost year ago and don’t have any reason to bother running dungeons with any other profession.

I’m honestly out raged by this.

Did they even bother to add this to any patchnotes? I’m sure I never saw it. But then again, I usually skip half the balance-patchnotes.

It completely caught me by surprise yesterday when I noticed that 10s-Recharge.

I hate spirits personally, why not change Frost Spirits functionality and move the +10% damage bonus to a BM GM trait so as long as the pet is alive allies get the 10% boost.

I would much rather spec into BM than dump 4 for frost spirit.

Fluffball.8307:

FS is now so far beyond useless it’s ridiculous. It boosts party damage by, what is it, like 1% or so? Compare that to one single application — not even a stack — just 1 vulnerability. Absolutely brutal.

This is kinda long so I’ve bolded the important parts.

Without ICD, frost spirit was a 35% chance of 10% extra damage. So a 3.5% DPS increase.
Traited it was a 70% chance of 10% extra damage, so a 7% DPS increase.

With a 10s ICD, the damage increase varies with weapon attack speed. With a 35% chance to proc, there’s a:

35% chance to proc on the 1st attack
22.8% chance to proc on the 2nd attack
14.8% chance to proc on the 3rd attack
9.6% chance to proc on the 4th attack
6.2% chance to proc on the 5th attack
4.1% chance to proc on the 6th attack
2.6% chance to proc on the 7th attack
1.7% chance to proc on the 8th attack
1.1% chance to proc on the 9th attack
0.7% chance to proc on the 10th attack
etc.

So the median is 2 attacks. The mean if I did my math right (weighting number of attacks by probability, and summing) is 2.86 attacks. So to get the mean number of attacks between FS activations, you take the number of times the weapon attacks in 10 sec, then add 2.86 attacks.

Shortbow (0.5 sec) is (10 sec / 0.5 sec/atk) + 2.86 attacks = 22.86 attacks.
FS will proc on average once per 22.86 attacks, increasing damage from that single attack from 1 to 1.1. Which is a 22.96/22.86 = 0.44% damage increase.

Axe (1.0 sec) is (10 sec / 1 sec/atk) + 2.86 attacks = 12.86 attacks.
12.96/12.86 = 0.78% damage increase.

Those two weapons are the fastest and slowest ranger autoattacks, so represent the range of damage increase for FS. 0.44% – 0.78% damage increase.

Traited (70% chance to proc), the median is 1 attack, the mean is 1.43 attacks.

Shortbow = 21.53/21.43 = 0.47% damage increase.
Axe = 11.53/11.43 = 0.87% damage increase

Traited FS now gives you a 0.47% – 0.87% damage increase.

So yeah, a single stack of vulnerability is worth more than FS now. And traiting spirits will get you a whopping 0.03%-0.09% extra damage.

This goes back to a longstanding complaint I had about spirits in general and FS in particular. The method by which it increases damage is unnecessarily complex. Why a 35% chance for a 10% chance to proc? Why not just make it improve damage by a flat 3.5% and call it a day?

I suspect the original designer carried over the 35% chance and 10s ICD from the other spirits, then did the math I did above and found out the spirit basically does nothing. So he “fixed” it by removing the ICD, but didn’t document in the code why he removed it. A new programmer was probably assigned to fix old bugs, saw the ICD was disabled on FS, and re-enabled it without understanding the effect it would have.

Any chance a dev can make a respond to this somewhere? Because this isn’t just a nerf. It’s essentially making the skill useless. Assuming it is intentional: the PvE ranger will be in a worse state after the feature patch compared to what it was two days ago.

GG Anet.

Wow … just wow. I don’t know what to say anet, why would you do this? You went and killed the only skill we had, and for what? At least give us a reason or tell us first before doing something like this.

posted this one in the bug forum. Hoping it is a bug.

If this is true, then it’s a) a bug or b) one very stupid decision by a developer that doesn’t think. I hope it’s the 1st. We often hear that the studio has very talented people (yeah I believe that).

Not sure if bugged or intended stealth nerf from Anet? When was the cooldown added to the tooltip? o.0

rojak.1894:

Not sure if bugged or intended stealth nerf from Anet? When was the cooldown added to the tooltip? o.0

The 10 second ICD has always been in the tooltip but it never worked according to it which is exactly the reason that made frost spirit a good asset to your party.

Hopefully they lift the damage increase at least from 10% to 100% with the next patch so this trait makes sense again. Otherwise this is the second trait rangers have that was nerved to death.
Anyone still using “search and rescue” in any game mode???

Anyone submit a bug ticket for this yet? If not, it doesn’t do much good to QQ on a subforum that’s rarely read.

Dahkeus.8243:

Anyone submit a bug ticket for this yet? If not, it doesn’t do much good to QQ on a subforum that’s rarely read.

Someone already did but I’m not sure if Anet will address this since it will seem like a mistake/accident on their part.

Oak da Vite.9054:

Hopefully they lift the damage increase at least from 10% to 100% with the next patch so this trait makes sense again. Otherwise this is the second trait rangers have that was nerved to death.
Anyone still using “search and rescue” in any game mode???

Its not gonna change anything, Still 10% buff in old version is better

One vulnerability stack is now more effective than Frost Spirit.

Uhm… I kind of just remembered I made a post about this bug about a year ago in the Ranger Bug thread.

JorneMormel.9850:

The Ranger’s Spirit of Frost has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds stated in the tooltip, which isn’t actually ingame.

…

In hindsight, I am glad they did not reply as swift as they did with the Eagle Eye bug.

Glad I can laugh about it, though. Otherwise it would just be sad.

Gonna be interesting to see what happens, considering people are definitely not gonna want rangers in dungeons now

Grok Krog.9581:

Gonna be interesting to see what happens, considering people are definitely not gonna want rangers in dungeons now

It won’t be that interesting. We’re all out of a job. Or game. Whatever.

Even without Frost Spirit, rangers still bring Spotter and their DPS will be bumped up a bit with the upcoming changes, so no, Rangers aren’t as bad as necros in dungeons.

I say interesting, because instead of occassional “I got kicked because I’m a bearbow”. We’ll probably see more because they just took a massive nerf

Dahkeus.8243:

Even without Frost Spirit, rangers still bring Spotter and their DPS will be bumped up a bit with the upcoming changes, so no, Rangers aren’t as bad as necros in dungeons.

Not as bad as necros for sure. But we lost 50% of our unique buffs. Predatory Onslaught is a (totally guessing here) 6% personal damage increase due to losing bountiful hunter and slightly more power, so we actually come out way behind the 7% party damage boost FS gave us.

Grok Krog.9581:

I say interesting, because instead of occassional “I got kicked because I’m a bearbow”. We’ll probably see more because they just took a massive nerf

“I got kicked because I brought party support.”

Edit: Not having to go in to the NM line will probably change the meta build completely. Definitely for the worse, but now we have 3 – 5 more point to allocate.

Edit 2: Nevermind, quickly glanced over the traits and there is nothing I can see better than NM for damage boosts. Probably still 6/5/0/3/0 unless BM can somehow be worth it.

Fluffball.8307:

Edit 2: Nevermind, quickly glanced over the traits and there is nothing I can see better than NM for damage boosts. Probably still 6/5/0/3/0 unless BM can somehow be worth it.

You would still want Fortifying Bond anyways.

Fluffball.8307:

Edit 2: Nevermind, quickly glanced over the traits and there is nothing I can see better than NM for damage boosts. Probably still 6/5/0/3/0 unless BM can somehow be worth it.

I switched between 46600 and 46060 (or 54500 and 540500) as my “favorite” builds.

While Wilderness Survival is generally a defensive line,

• Martial Mastery roughly matches NM’s Two-Hand Training (both master tier) at improving GS damage.
• Peak Strength (10% damage if hp over 90%) exceeds NM’s Strength of Spirit (about 3% more damage w/ 800 vit) and Bountiful Hunter (5% more damage with a boon).

The only things which tipped it in NM’s favor offensively was traited Frost Spirit (3.5% extra damage for the party) and boon sharing with your pet.

Defensively, protect on dodge + Bark Skin is incredible at damage mitigation. By themselves they reduce damage by 33% and 50% respectively (you can take 1.5x or 2x more damage). But together they reduce damage by 83% (you can take 6x more damage).

If this changes the GS to be the best meta weapon, I’ll be very happy.

The 1h attack is absolute #1 reason I hate playing a ranger in dungeons.

Actually highest damage selfish build is currently kitten 0 0. So in that regard nothing changes. The issue at hand is that party members are usually brought in for something unique and ranger had spotter and spirit.

Considering a warrior can bring 2 banners and high cleave damage, a thief can trivialize a lot of the content by skipping, an elementalist is the highest damage in the game on top of a great might and fury well I seriously fail to see what the problem with 7% damage buffing spirit was.

Chokolata.1870:

I seriously fail to see what the problem with 7% damage buffing spirit was.

I was really excited about the upcoming ranger changes. And this piece of news almost completely ruined that excitement for me. I share Chokolata’s confusion and would appreciate some explanation for this change, please.

Dahkeus.8243:

If this changes the GS to be the best meta weapon, I’ll be very happy.

The 1h attack is absolute #1 reason I hate playing a ranger in dungeons.

?? It’s a nerf to the class as a whole, nothing to do with GS. The biggest reason we were taken in dungeons is now completely obliterated, so no one will accept you whatever weapon you use.

Bump.

Goodbye ranger. Fare thee well.

Fluffball.8307:

Dahkeus.8243:

If this changes the GS to be the best meta weapon, I’ll be very happy.

The 1h attack is absolute #1 reason I hate playing a ranger in dungeons.

?? It’s a nerf to the class as a whole, nothing to do with GS. The biggest reason we were taken in dungeons is now completely obliterated, so no one will accept you whatever weapon you use.

J Eberle.9312:

Goodbye ranger. Fare thee well.

Oh the drama…lol

P.s. If this is something you honestly care about, open a ticket. The more tickets received, the more likely it is to be fixed.

The tool tip was always there but it was always ignored (how after all this time…)

They should change all spirits to: no internal cooldown/much lower % chance activation.

Since 1 stack of vulnerability is worth more than front spirit now.

RIP Frost spirit.

UnitedChaos.8364:

The tool tip was always there but it was always ignored (how after all this time…)

They should change all spirits to: no internal cooldown/much lower % chance activation.

Since 1 stack of vulnerability is worth more than front spirit now.

RIP Frost spirit.

It wouldn’t need a much lower percentage chance. A static ~5-7% damage boost is plenty balanced considering the fact that it is attached to a stationary, tissue paper AI.

It’s not like the old version was imbalanced in any format anyway.

UnitedChaos.8364:

The tool tip was always there but it was always ignored (how after all this time…)

They should change all spirits to: no internal cooldown/much lower % chance activation.

Since 1 stack of vulnerability is worth more than front spirit now.

RIP Frost spirit.

Changing them isn’t necessary There was nothing wrong with the previous Frost Spirit, except from the tooltip. Even devs have stated that it was working as intended. And it wasn’t imbalanced in any way.

UnitedChaos.8364:

They should change all spirits to: no internal cooldown/much lower % chance activation.

While that would make spirits simpler to theorycraft, it doesn’t solve this particular problem. Frost Spirit increases damage by a %. The other spirits apply conditions or boons which last a duration. That fundamental difference is why Frost Spirit needs to be coded with different probabilities from the others to make the math work out to about equal effectiveness.

Solandri.9640:

The mean if I did my math right (weighting number of attacks by probability, and summing) is 2.86 attacks.

I noticed that 2.86 attacks is simply 1/.35, and 1.43 attacks is simply 1/.7. So I guess I did do the math right. I’m still trying to wrap my head around why the mean can be calculated the same way as for a gaussian distribution, even though this one is a poisson distribution.

Dahkeus.8243:

Fluffball.8307:

Dahkeus.8243:

If this changes the GS to be the best meta weapon, I’ll be very happy.

The 1h attack is absolute #1 reason I hate playing a ranger in dungeons.

?? It’s a nerf to the class as a whole, nothing to do with GS. The biggest reason we were taken in dungeons is now completely obliterated, so no one will accept you whatever weapon you use.

J Eberle.9312:

Goodbye ranger. Fare thee well.

Oh the drama…lol

P.s. If this is something you honestly care about, open a ticket. The more tickets received, the more likely it is to be fixed.

It’s legit drama. If you don’t care about this nerf, you weren’t running FS and didn’t really care that much about fast dungeon runs, so of course you don’t see the massive nerf to the profession.