Guild Wars 2

Every single class forum is FULL of people who claim their class is the red headed step child of Anet while all other classes are OP and get all sorts of attention from Anet. I mean have you really looked at all? Engineer’s claiming they’re the “least played and worst class in GW2” warriors claiming “Anet doesn’t care about them and they are an abandoned class” thieves all saying “no reason to play a thief now and forever” and its the same in every other forum. Hell, even the guardians have posts that are all doom and gloom and how Anet has forsaken them.

I find it funny how you’re all 100% sure that Anet is just out to get this one class you play and loves all the other classes. So many of you talking about “knee jerk” reactions by Anet when balancing and yet these forums are a cesspool of paranoid “knee jerk” reactive posters and people who just jump right on the paranoia bandwagon because they read one post from someone else, equally misinformed, who said the sky was falling.

If you were trying to make a point, you failed.

So you’re saying that ANet is at fault? wasn’t that the general consensus already?

And if you look at the patch notes since HoT (of at least the documented changes).. one thing stands out:

Ranger/Druid has been the most nerfed class since Oct 23rd.

oshilator.4681:

And if you look at the patch notes since HoT (of at least the documented changes).. one thing stands out:

Ranger/Druid has been the most nerfed class since Oct 23rd.

since Oct 23 2012?

It’s all due to complete lack of communication with the playerbase. ANet does their own thing at their own time with their own ideas for their own reasons.

I’ve read all the forums on all the classes. Any reasonable reader can fairly gauge which classes are in a good spot such as Reaper, DH, and Revs and those that are not, especially, Druids and Warriors. From a PVP point, the Druids were ok until the latest nerf now they are again subpar. The only class that is worse is the warrior.

My biggest complaint is when they finally correct something the community desires, they quickly turnaround and nerf or so it seems. That needs to stop, it gives the appearance that Anet doesn’t know what’s its doing and losing the confidence in itself and its customers. This whole HoT upgrade would be a great case study for Harvard Business School. Lots of lessons to be learned.

We need a good quality control upfront rather than a lot of rework and renerfs.

I play multiple classes, some much better than others, but I understand, at least in PvP, how the specs rate:

DH, chill reaper, Herald, and Hammer Scrapper are amazing

Celestial Druid, Auramancer Tempest, and Power Chrono are very good but you need the right comps

Daredevil and Zerker are on the weak side.

There are posts on the Necro forums about how Necro will be 100% non viable in all games modes soon enough once people begin to understand how to play their other classes. There are rev posts talking about how “anything a rev can do another class can do better” Its all the same everywhere you go; “My class is bad and needs buffs and all other classes are OP and need nerfs”

And again right here in this post are the paranoid knee jerk reactions as usual. Did I nerf ranger? I didn’t realize I was a programmer for Anet but here people are jumping at me for pointing out the fact that they jump at anyone or anything that doesn’t claim ranger is a 100% unplayable class and that everyone should march on Anet corporate headquarters and put their heads on pikes.

You can all be as angry and paranoid about ranger, or either of the other classes claiming they are clearly the worst class in GW, as you’d like but other than the first few days of trying to get my bearings on new content, I’ve been having an easy time clearing the new content, completing hero challenges and killing others in pvp. If I were to believe these forums, I should be dying every three steps in the jungle, only be 10% done with my elite spec and be unable to even down someone in pvp.

If I were to believe these forums as of yesterday, I should be almost completely unable to build my celestial power bar. It should be ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE based on the whining going on in these forums. And yet, here I am, not even using staff at all, completely able to use celestial form whenever I want to or whenever I need it. But again, this should be impossible based on the completely exaggerated posts of these forums.

Lack of communication is evident here but if I were a dev, I wouldn’t want to come anywhere near these forums either. There are so few constructive and helpful posts and far too many “my class is broken garbage, anet are scum!” uneducated and knee jerk paranoia posts on these forums.

an anet white knight, nice. Defending what is indefensible

I’m defending the druid class, not Anet. But with a well thought out response like that, you’ve clearly proven that you all DON’T just jump at anyone who disagrees that ranger/druid is 100% unplayable.

Seven Deadly….so you believe everything is golden bombs of light and love with just one Beta Weekend? You don’t see anything wrong with daily and/or nightly patching specifically for the Druid among other things?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Since we’re going to make ludicrously wild exaggerations; do you believe the ranger class is the worst class in the game, FAR beyond worse than anything else, nigh unplayable and that anyone who attempts to play one can’t complete anything in any game mode?

Inquiring minds want to know.

First, Druid needed the nerfs. You can have your opinions, but there have long been numerous balancing issues with the Ranger which repeatedly end up with it swinging between being overly powerful and slightly underperforming in nearly every aspect of the game.

The nerfs aren’t the developers attacking your class of choice out of some form of maliciousness, negligence, or apathy. Their jobs are to make the class fun to play. Thinking it is a little bit…Not so bright. Shouting it on the official forums where they can see it makes you look like a dim headed, self-entitled, whiny dingbat.

Seriously, why keep playing if you’re so salty?

I mean, there have been some buffs to rangers and some nerfs to other classes in the patch notes since HoT launched. Where is your outrage for those classes? But no no, its simply that ranger is a hated class and “they’re out to get us” right fellahs!

Mercurias.1826:

The nerfs aren’t the developers attacking your class of choice out of some form of maliciousness, negligence, or apathy. Their jobs are to make the class fun to play. Thinking it is a little bit…Not so bright. Shouting it on the official forums where they can see it makes you look like a dim headed, self-entitled, whiny dingbat.

Seriously, why keep playing if you’re so salty?

>Their job is to make the class fun to play
I’m having fun with base Ranger, but not the Druid spec after the most recent update. If their job is to make the Druid fun, then they’re failing at it….because I can almost never access Celestial Avatar unless I bind one of my weapon choices to one that I dont want to use (Staff). That’s compared to how it was very recently , where I could choose to use it or any other weapon combination and still have reasonable access to Druid’s Avatar.

That was fun. Being able to use my core build with the Elite one in sync with each other and the various weapon choices was fun. Locking myself to a staff and hindering CA usage to such an extreme otherwise is /not/ fun.

>Why are you still playing?
Personally, I want to see where this wild ride stops (and pray that it will stop at Druids actually being fun again) and I can always fall back on another profession/stay as a regular ranger if it just doesn’t work out.

I agree with you, OP.

Each class has it’s strengths and weaknesses and each class is balanced to the best of ANet’s ability. Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced but that’s why there are frequent adjustments – to keep things as close to being balanced as they can be.

Yes, ANet makes mistakes and sometimes they neglect to understand the communities desires but we can’t always get what we want. At least they admit to their mistakes when they make them (most times) and reverting the Smokeskales F2 ability was a perfect example of that.

Druid is just as playable as the other elite specs. It might not be as exciting as some of the others but it’s not completely broken. Balance patches will continue to happen so long as the game continues to thrive and Druid/Ranger, like all of the other professions, will have it’s ups and downs.

It’s fine to be upset with ANet’s decisions but crying on the forums tends to result in a “be careful what you wish for” situation more often than not. Perfect example was when I made a post requesting for arrow cart line of sight to be fixed in WvW and they definitely fixed it but they also made them completely unusable for a while, too.

If you dislike the way something is being handled, take a constructive approach to finding a solution instead of just “WAH, WAH, ANET HATES US, I’M REROLLING” or “naw they don’t you just gotta l2p.”

Unfortunately most people don’t have enough insight to give constructive advice and would rather make baseless accusations or just flat out insult any one who disagrees with them.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Unfortunately most people don’t have enough insight to give constructive advice and would rather make baseless accusations or just flat out insult any one who disagrees with them.

This man knows the score.

Professions are not created equally because different teams work on each profession. This was further highlighted to me when I compared the two Elites for the professions I played before HoT.

Mesmer Chrono feels like a spec made by a Mesmer player for other Mesmer players. (i.e., its a spec done right.)

Ranger Druid feels like a spec made by someone disconnected from Rangers and gaming in general. Even though I can take certain abilities/weapons/traits to make the Elite work, its so fundamentally wrong to me that I have absolutely no desire to make it work. (I feel like I was given crap with some sticks in it and asked to build a house out of it.)

Good luck Anet trying to balance every weapon/utility for AF generation; time well spent.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Since we’re going to make ludicrously wild exaggerations; do you believe the ranger class is the worst class in the game, FAR beyond worse than anything else, nigh unplayable and that anyone who attempts to play one can’t complete anything in any game mode?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Exaggerate? Was there more than one Beta Weekend for the Druid? Right, pretty much what I thought too.

Are there documented, and undocumented, changes to the Druid as recently as last night? Was there a patch prior to that no more than a 24 to 48 hours earlier?

Look, if you are happy, great. That doesn’t take away from the fact there are constant changes to the Druid that are more than likely due to it being publicly played for one weekend. Furthermore, there are now other HoT changes, WvW, sPvP, and now raids that will further complicate the balancing act. Is it a healer, is it a sustain healer, is it a burst healer, what gear is best, no +heal, lots of +heal, what sigils, runes, or armor….

Yeah, you want to invest now in a raid set of armor, accessories, runes, and sigils? Go for it. Personally I would wait because the changes happen fast and furious whether we both agree on the pace or not. They are happening and it is a pretty wide swing each and every time. How does one generate astral force and at what rate appears to be the magic question and focus.

To your second question about is it unplayable. Actually, it is outside of sPvP and WvW. Currency, regardless of what type, is necessary to buy, gear, or craft for the Druid. With the constant change it makes it a money pit even if you are crafting exotics. You want minstrels? Ok, sure. How many air craft parts is that going to cost you. Ascended? Might as well say 500 per piece. See the pattern?

Ok, maybe you will wait. Maybe gearing isn’t necessary for the first raid boss, neither is a druid really. Are we a bit over the top with saying the sky is falling? Probably a little.

But show me, or the forum, any other class that has been patched as frequently then we’ll talk.

And yet here I am, running through pve content in viper’s armor with celestial trinkets with ease. My damage is good, my healing is very noticeable and celestial form is up whenever I need it. And before this iteration I was in valkyrie armor with berserker trinkets having no way near as difficult a time as people make the new zones out to be.

If you’re complaining that you can’t kill things easily in minstrels armor well, no kidding. You’re talking about a gear set with literally zero offensive stats. Currently the raids don’t seem to require anything along the lines of minstrel gear. The successful group’s “healer” is using any set with either healing and condi or healing and power.

But this should be impossible right? I mean PvE content is “outside of spvp and wvw” so how am I attaining this insurmountable feat! I must be a god amongst meer mortals! Or more likely I didn’t spend all my energy complaining on the forums waiting for my unbalanced buff demands to be met and actually adapted to what was happening in the game.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

And yet here I am, running through pve content in viper’s armor with celestial trinkets with ease. My damage is good, my healing is very noticeable and celestial form is up whenever I need it. And before this iteration I was in valkyrie armor with berserker trinkets having no way near as difficult a time as people make the new zones out to be.

If you’re complaining that you can’t kill things easily in minstrels armor well, no kidding. You’re talking about a gear set with literally zero offensive stats. Currently the raids don’t seem to require anything along the lines of minstrel gear. The successful group’s “healer” is using any set with either healing and condi or healing and power.

But this should be impossible right? I mean PvE content is “outside of spvp and wvw” so how am I attaining this insurmountable feat! I must be a god amongst meer mortals! Or more likely I didn’t spend all my energy complaining on the forums waiting for my unbalanced buff demands to be met and actually adapted to what was happening in the game.

You can run whatever you want in pve, mobs are brainless in pve. Using a settiing as braindead as pve is not credible.

Can you try that in pvp? Team setting 5v5 pvp? <——- This is where we balance.

You can balance some stuff in pvp and it won’t affect as much in pve.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

I mean, there have been some buffs to rangers and some nerfs to other classes in the patch notes since HoT launched. Where is your outrage for those classes? But no no, its simply that ranger is a hated class and “they’re out to get us” right fellahs!

Take your white knighting & fact ignoring somewhere else.

The ranger crowd “knows the score” & also knows we’re on the short end of it.

Over & over.

All the rapid fire knee-jerk changes in the past month are proof.

And while Anet may not “hate the class”, they sure as heck don’t respect the players that play it.

I honestly haven’t heard any real complaints about Chronomancer sooooo……

“White Knight” <— this is a term you throw at someone when they don’t agree with you and you have no actual tangible argument against what they’re saying. Sort of like the opposite end of the spectrum if someone were to call you a “forum whining scrub” without actually saying anything towards the argument at hand.

And already here two people trying to argue that Druids are bad are in complete and absolute contradiction of one another. Crapgame claims druids are good in spvp and wvw but horrible in pve. Stickerhappy claims pve is easy and EVERYONE should be great in pve but that apparently druids are really bad in spvp. So which is it?

And the only fact I need to know is that while you troll the forums all day attacking anyone who says druid’s are actually viable and no way near the unplayable, broken, bug infested, give me all the buffs I want class you pretend to claim it is, I’m over here enjoying mine with absolute success in pve and pvp.

Just as fast as anet can “knee jerks” balancing, you’re sure to be on the forums “knee jerking” some “They’re out to get me and my class! THEY DON’T RESPECT ME!!!!!” bs forum post. I mean seriously “They don’t respect us?” You want christmas card this year from them? You think its some personal slight against you that a balance change goes the other way and not in your favor? Get a grip on reality man.

Yeah I got the same flak for suggesting AFG & OOC degen was reasonable at launch. Don’t bother with these ones.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

“White Knight” <— this is a term you throw at someone when they don’t agree with you and you have no actual tangible argument against what they’re saying. Sort of like the opposite end of the spectrum if someone were to call you a “forum whining scrub” without actually saying anything towards the argument at hand.

And already here two people trying to argue that Druids are bad are in complete and absolute contradiction of one another. Crapgame claims druids are good in spvp and wvw but horrible in pve. Stickerhappy claims pve is easy and EVERYONE should be great in pve but that apparently druids are really bad in spvp. So which is it?

And the only fact I need to know is that while you troll the forums all day attacking anyone who says druid’s are actually viable and no way near the unplayable, broken, bug infested, give me all the buffs I want class you pretend to claim it is, I’m over here enjoying mine with absolute success in pve and pvp.

Just as fast as anet can “knee jerks” balancing, you’re sure to be on the forums “knee jerking” some “They’re out to get me and my class! THEY DON’T RESPECT ME!!!!!” bs forum post. I mean seriously “They don’t respect us?” You want christmas card this year from them? You think its some personal slight against you that a balance change goes the other way and not in your favor? Get a grip on reality man.

I meant what I said, did you forget that balancing bet pve and pvp is not separate? Druids are good in spvp if you mean in conquest, but does it mean as the class itself is in a good spot?

Druids are still pigeonholed into this AF mechanic how? Still need to get regen, still need to equip staff, still need to equip TU. Look at deathshroud, its a very similar mechanic, but is it gated? NO.

You gain life force when you take damage, and do damage on whatever skills or traits or weaponsets you have.

Let’s not forget druid still gets the pet, which is underperforming for 3 years. You can’t control the skills except for 1, melts in AOE, Cannot hit a moving target, etc. At the same time this is where roughly ~30% of ranger dmg comes from. Do other classes have that? NO.

I for one have no called you this “white knight” But I mean cmon, lets not sugar coat that rangers still get the shorter end of the stick.

Want an example?

Rangers get cripple on traps while DH gets Daze on trap?
Ranger traps get cast time while DH gets instant cast traps?
Ranger traps get conditions whille DH traps get BURST ANDDD UTILITY.
All Class mechanics function very fluidly while ranger gets a wonky AI, a mechanic that can be killed and disabled for 60 seconds?
A Mechanic that is gated by several factors (Healing, AF, TU, Regen, Weapons, etc) While the only gate other classes have is CD and building it (still MORE reliably than ranger)

I could go on and on vs different classes.

Also, what nerfs did the recent elite specs get? And how many do the rangers get?

The white knight thing was at the poster below you, not you.

I’m 100% aware nothing I say will change how anyone here thinks or acts. This is the internet after all.

I’ve been on these forums reading silently for years and it never changes. Every time there’s even a slight nerf there’s an outpouring of trolls who act like someone from anet has come to their home and personally spat on them. “A slap across the face!” and what not. So ridiculous, how detached from reality must a person be to actually believe people making balance changes for a video game have a personal vendetta out for them.

These same people will 100% ignore anything positive they get though. They’d rather hyperexaggerate the reality of the game to lobby for outrageous buffs for their class of choice, while simultaneously calling for nerfs to everything else.

You use to be able to the forums to get productive and beneficial information about the class, but now its almost entirely pages upon pages of either the same exact topic in 20 forum threads of people whining, or people declaring they’ve “quit the game for good this time and I mean it!” when everyone knows they haven’t.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

I’m 100% aware nothing I say will change how anyone here thinks or acts. This is the internet after all.

I’ve been on these forums reading silently for years and it never changes. Every time there’s even a slight nerf there’s an outpouring of trolls who act like someone from anet has come to their home and personally spat on them. “A slap across the face!” and what not. So ridiculous, how detached from reality must a person be to actually believe people making balance changes for a video game have a personal vendetta out for them.

These same people will 100% ignore anything positive they get though. They’d rather hyperexaggerate the reality of the game to lobby for outrageous buffs for their class of choice, while simultaneously calling for nerfs to everything else.

You use to be able to the forums to get productive and beneficial information about the class, but now its almost entirely pages upon pages of either the same exact topic in 20 forum threads of people whining, or people declaring they’ve “quit the game for good this time and I mean it!” when everyone knows they haven’t.

I think of it as PitchForking.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

“White Knight” <— this is a term you throw at someone when they don’t agree with you and you have no actual tangible argument against what they’re saying. Sort of like the opposite end of the spectrum if someone were to call you a “forum whining scrub” without actually saying anything towards the argument at hand.

And already here two people trying to argue that Druids are bad are in complete and absolute contradiction of one another. Crapgame claims druids are good in spvp and wvw but horrible in pve. Stickerhappy claims pve is easy and EVERYONE should be great in pve but that apparently druids are really bad in spvp. So which is it?

And the only fact I need to know is that while you troll the forums all day attacking anyone who says druid’s are actually viable and no way near the unplayable, broken, bug infested, give me all the buffs I want class you pretend to claim it is, I’m over here enjoying mine with absolute success in pve and pvp.

Just as fast as anet can “knee jerks” balancing, you’re sure to be on the forums “knee jerking” some “They’re out to get me and my class! THEY DON’T RESPECT ME!!!!!” bs forum post. I mean seriously “They don’t respect us?” You want christmas card this year from them? You think its some personal slight against you that a balance change goes the other way and not in your favor? Get a grip on reality man.

Seven, please do not put words in my mouth. If you are going to quote me or say I said something, please try and be somewhat accurate. Fair? You can go back and read what I said, it is right there for all of us.

I asked are other classes getting as many hot fixes or patches as the Druid. I alluded to the constant change due to the lack of external testing and one beta weekend. I also said sPvP, Raids, HoT expansion, and WvW are also factors. It is my opinion. Maybe it is just a complex class and/or design since Healing was not really part of the original launch just like raids are not. Design issue? Who knows.

You asked if it is unplayable. No, it isn’t. I still play it. But if you ask me is it frustrating, then yes. It is very frustrating. Not because I am mad or throwing a hissy fit but because it is difficult and costly to change builds around a “moving or changing” mechanic. Thus my comment about exotics, accessories, armor, crafting, stats, etc.

Maybe let it roll off like a drop of water off a ducks back and wait. Let the dust settle then craft or purchase something. Maybe that is the right idea. Druids and healing really isn’t necessary for the first Raid boss anyway. But it would be nice to try the support Druid in Raids and in WvW.

Just my take on it.

Crapgame.6519:

To your second question about is it unplayable. Actually, it is outside of sPvP and WvW.

Thats a quote FROM YOU. How is that putting words in your mouth? Unless the English language changed suddenly, you just said Druid is unplayable outside of spvp and wvw.

I’m not one to complain about much, I’ve been pretty happy with ranger and now with druid, apart from the initial AF dissipating like adrenaline that first weekend. I’ve ridden out the ups and downs and stayed chill about it all. So not ALL of us up in arms about this last patch are people constantly asking for changes and buffs.

That said? The patch today really wrecked Druid. Using staff exclusively, on a build that’s a mixture of cele and zealot’s it took me more than a good 15-20 seconds to charge up AF earlier… if that is the new desired norm? Why does there even need to be a 10 second cd on CAF? Charging AF in a non-zerg setting at the moment seems entirely painful, and this is with HP secondary… I don’t even want to think about what people in Cleric’s or Minstrel’s are experiencing.

Well no, to be fair, most of the druid community is in the game, enjoying it. Most are probably like I was; silently reading the forums. The forums are and always will be a minority of the actual playerbase. Lately however, it seems to be a very paranoid, very “pitchforking” as someone else so eloquently put it, minority.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Crapgame.6519:

To your second question about is it unplayable. Actually, it is outside of sPvP and WvW.

Thats a quote FROM YOU. How is that putting words in your mouth? Unless the English language changed suddenly, you just said Druid is unplayable outside of spvp and wvw.

Context Seven, context. Do you craft for gear in sPvP? You pick rune, sigil, neck. Static map, players. Bigger picture with the wall of text above and below the comment. Rapid change or patching makes it difficult to build and/or craft.

If you are happy with the constant patching and adjustments – more power to you.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Well no, to be fair, most of the druid community is in the game, enjoying it. Most are probably like I was; silently reading the forums. The forums are and always will be a minority of the actual playerbase. Lately however, it seems to be a very paranoid, very “pitchforking” as someone else so eloquently put it, minority.

Probably because of the constant changes, you think?

Or do you honestly believe they have nothing better to do than create threads bashing the publisher and developers. No, they are probably tired of the constant patching which includes documented and undocumented changes bugs or not. Not sure why you are having an issue with that concept.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

I’m 100% aware nothing I say will change how anyone here thinks or acts. This is the internet after all.

I’ve been on these forums reading silently for years and it never changes. Every time there’s even a slight nerf there’s an outpouring of trolls who act like someone from anet has come to their home and personally spat on them. “A slap across the face!” and what not. So ridiculous, how detached from reality must a person be to actually believe people making balance changes for a video game have a personal vendetta out for them.

These same people will 100% ignore anything positive they get though. They’d rather hyperexaggerate the reality of the game to lobby for outrageous buffs for their class of choice, while simultaneously calling for nerfs to everything else.

You use to be able to the forums to get productive and beneficial information about the class, but now its almost entirely pages upon pages of either the same exact topic in 20 forum threads of people whining, or people declaring they’ve “quit the game for good this time and I mean it!” when everyone knows they haven’t.

I get your point, but the thing is you cant filter out hyperboles here. But the aggravating part is that (which most of you will agree with me, including you) is the lack of tweaks for the ranger class. Even just the pet.

3 years.. You cant even save pet names.. How hard can that be? But when it comes to nerfs.. 24 hours is all it takes.

StickerHappy.8052:

sevenDEADLY.5281:

I’m 100% aware nothing I say will change how anyone here thinks or acts. This is the internet after all.

I’ve been on these forums reading silently for years and it never changes. Every time there’s even a slight nerf there’s an outpouring of trolls who act like someone from anet has come to their home and personally spat on them. “A slap across the face!” and what not. So ridiculous, how detached from reality must a person be to actually believe people making balance changes for a video game have a personal vendetta out for them.

These same people will 100% ignore anything positive they get though. They’d rather hyperexaggerate the reality of the game to lobby for outrageous buffs for their class of choice, while simultaneously calling for nerfs to everything else.

You use to be able to the forums to get productive and beneficial information about the class, but now its almost entirely pages upon pages of either the same exact topic in 20 forum threads of people whining, or people declaring they’ve “quit the game for good this time and I mean it!” when everyone knows they haven’t.

I get your point, but the thing is you cant filter out hyperboles here. But the aggravating part is that (which most of you will agree with me, including you) is the lack of tweaks for the ranger class. Even just the pet.

3 years.. You cant even save pet names.. How hard can that be? But when it comes to nerfs.. 24 hours is all it takes.

Forums can be toxic. If that is what Seven is trying to say, I’d agree. But as you pointed out a lot of the current banter is because of the constant change. Someone said it here, or maybe another thread, that they get that strange feeling every time they see the “new build message in 10 minutes” message. What are they going to do to the Druid this time…

Meh – whatever, it is just a game.

I’m really not sure what the point of this thread is, or what it has to do with rangers.

Are you suggesting the outlet for giving feedback should no longer be used to give feedback? Are you suggesting that because people express emotions when they give feedback, that those people are wrong for having an emotional attachment?

Sorry, but these forums are an “everyone” experience, not just a “you” experience. Within the code of conduct, people can post however they feel and whatever they think regarding whatever topic they choose.

People complaining about their classes are right to complain about their classes, because otherwise, if everybody decided to get their nose nice and brown while telling ANet how fantastic they are; patches would never get done, balance would never get made, and ANet may as well not even hire balance programmers at that point, because everything is always perfect as per the community, so why employ a team that specializes at changing things?

Tone policing or causing rage or whatever this topic is meant to be, it is definitely not constructive in any way.

My point is that people coming on here and taking every little nerf as a personal slight against them and demanding swift and terrible retribution against the people who make this game goes WAY above and beyond “having an emotional attachment.” It’s downright lunacy. If you truly think those posts are constructive, then you’re absolutely 100% no better.

Look at the first page, does ANY of that look constructive? There’s at least 7 posts all on the same exact topic by people cursing faceless men far far away and swearing to god THIS is the time they’re actually going to quit. Very few of them have any constructive input whatsoever.

You absolutely have the right to make constructive criticisms and try to help make the game better. For the sake of argument I’ll even say you have the right to call the devs all morons and demand they be fired and worse, even thought I’m pretty sure that’s 100% against the ToS. But if you’re going to act like a tantruming child all over the forums (for months on end) then someone is eventually going to call you out on it.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

My point is that people coming on here and taking every little nerf as a personal slight against them and demanding swift and terrible retribution against the people who make this game goes WAY above and beyond “having an emotional attachment.” It’s downright lunacy. If you truly think those posts are constructive, then you’re absolutely 100% no better.

Look at the first page, does ANY of that look constructive? There’s at least 7 posts all on the same exact topic by people cursing faceless men far far away and swearing to god THIS is the time they’re actually going to quit. Very few of them have any constructive input whatsoever.

You absolutely have the right to make constructive criticisms and try to help make the game better. For the sake of argument I’ll even say you have the right to call the devs all morons and demand they be fired and worse, even thought I’m pretty sure that’s 100% against the ToS. But if you’re going to act like a tantruming child all over the forums (for months on end) then someone is eventually going to call you out on it.

You must be new to the Internet Seven. Your ideals are something to strive for, but, while you and Anet can hammer their rules down our throats all you want about what constitutes constructive criticism (this thread), You and them are entirely missing the point that feedback and criticism are almost always given out of anger.

Many people are usually so angry at a change or issue by the time they post here, they think Anet and Gods have forsaken them and left their poor little class’s carcass to rot with a thousand cuts in a pile of salt (whether it takes them a few weeks or few minutes to get that angry is a different story…). They are going to think Anet ignored them. There are going to be angry posts. The fact that forums members like you keep trying to change that (and the fact Anet keeps trying to ignore that and advertise us as the ‘friendlist’ community), shows just how far off base you guys are and how small of the hole in the ground you’re living in right now.

Go look at Destiny’s Forums for example. Good -blam-ing lord there are so many -blam-ed off -blam-ing scrub-lords there, even Bungie’s legion of ninjas are regularly overwhelmed. Here, you see poor little kittens being abused here and there (because Anet picked that work out of thousands of possible words…), but nowhere near at the level you see in other places. You guys should consider yourselves lucky that most people who post here are usually coherent enough to make a post that isn’t filled with curse words and hate and still offer enough good feedback to be considered. If you don’t want to read/consider feedback because there’s a little hate in it, just ignore it.I get that there’s often 15 threads on every page with some sort of hate comment in it, but, you’re just going to have to ignore it, or spam the little flag button on the lower right corner of the post you think are against the rules.

Other than that. Please kindly shut up and stop complaining about other people complaining, its even less constructive than the posts you are attacking.

Problem:

Forums are full of dissatisfied players, who turn their dissatisfaction into complaint threads full of blame instead of constructive criticism.

OP’s Response:
A complaint thread airing dissatisfaction about player complaints, by complaining and blaming players instead of constructive criticism.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Maybe instead of wasting everyones time, complaining about people complaining, you could try to direct their threads into more helpful reports that can advance the class or at least sooth tensions?

Or maybe it’s just easier to be a hypocrite though, eh?

This doesnt make the complaints of the ranger community illegitemate. All this shows is how bad anet really is at communication. This is an issue of customer service. Pick most any other business in any other industry and theres a good chance anets level of communication wouldnt be tolerated.

To use an analogy. Its as if you dropped your car off to be detailed only to find the garage went ahead and installed a new transmition, replaced the suspension, did some body work AND figured theyd rotate your tires. Youd be kittened.

As long as the only communication we get is non communication. As long as we find out about changes not through forum posts, dev blogs or patch notes, but have to do in game testing. As long as this goes on youll have players of all classes being very vocal here on the forums.

Leodon.1564:

Professions are not created equally because different teams work on each profession. This was further highlighted to me when I compared the two Elites for the professions I played before HoT.

Mesmer Chrono feels like a spec made by a Mesmer player for other Mesmer players. (i.e., its a spec done right.)

Ranger Druid feels like a spec made by someone disconnected from Rangers and gaming in general. Even though I can take certain abilities/weapons/traits to make the Elite work, its so fundamentally wrong to me that I have absolutely no desire to make it work. (I feel like I was given crap with some sticks in it and asked to build a house out of it.)

Good luck Anet trying to balance every weapon/utility for AF generation; time well spent.

I agree. When someone woks on a class they like you can tell. It’s usually a really great class. When someone works on a class just because they were assigned that class it usually sounds good on paper but makes no sense in actual game play.

wolfyrik.2017:

Problem:

Forums are full of dissatisfied players, who turn their dissatisfaction into complaint threads full of blame instead of constructive criticism.

OP’s Response:
A complaint thread airing dissatisfaction about player complaints, by complaining and blaming players instead of constructive criticism.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Maybe instead of wasting everyones time, complaining about people complaining, you could try to direct their threads into more helpful reports that can advance the class or at least sooth tensions?

Or maybe it’s just easier to be a hypocrite though, eh?

Problem:
Person1 begins to punch person 2 in the face and continues to punch. Person 2 doesn’t like the physical violence.

Response:
Does person 2 allow person 1 to punch him until he dies because he doesn’t like the physical violence or does person 2 maybe eventually defend himself?

Guess if that person defended themselves they’d be such a hypocrite! I mean the other way, he’d be dead but at least he wouldn’t be a hypocrite, mi’right!

Also yes, the lack of communication from the devs has been ridiculous, but even so its still not a reason to devolve the forums into a nonconstructive cesspool.

wolfyrik.2017:

Problem:

Forums are full of dissatisfied players, who turn their dissatisfaction into complaint threads full of blame instead of constructive criticism.

OP’s Response:
A complaint thread airing dissatisfaction about player complaints, by complaining and blaming players instead of constructive criticism.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Maybe instead of wasting everyones time, complaining about people complaining, you could try to direct their threads into more helpful reports that can advance the class or at least sooth tensions?

Or maybe it’s just easier to be a hypocrite though, eh?

+1 under rated post.

Also, even if you intend on making a constructive thread, its often derailed by nay sayers and get messages like these.

What difference does it make?
They’re not listening.
They’ve made that clear multiple times.

( to the person that posted this, I am simplying using as an example, not to name or shame).

These will be the same people that you look though thier history and they’ve gone though the same cycle of cry till it didnt work, then try and be constructive, then nay say, then repeat.

At the end of it all there is two persistent things:

• anet does not respond, reason, or explain anything not even their thought process
• People continue to be unhappy and feel alienated by anets process

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again

Eval.2371:

The moment we feel we are being ignored and not having a conversation about the classes with anet, is the same moment we go off into nonsensical unconstructive posts

What needs to change is players need to understand why changes are happening and anet being there every step of the way. I hate to include league into this, but they do a very good job of this with videos about what is problematic, and may change because they are problems and what directions they are heading in. It’s a very good way to communicate without actually stopping into the forums and communicating. It also allows players to see that they have picked up things from constructive posts. Doing something like this allows the base to feel they have a say which is basically what every class area complains right now, that they don’t and that they are underwhelming.

Eval.2371:

What needs to change is players need to understand why changes are happening and anet being there every step of the way. I hate to include league into this, but they do a very good job of this with videos about what is problematic, and may change because they are problems and what directions they are heading in. It’s a very good way to communicate without actually stopping into the forums and communicating. It also allows players to see that they have picked up things from constructive posts. Doing something like this allows the base to feel they have a say which is basically what every class area complains right now, that they don’t and that they are underwhelming.

Anet actually used to do this. They would put notations in their balance posts during GW1 that would give a general idea of why they balanced the way they did.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Developer_updates

They didn’t always do this but it was a nice gesture. I have no idea why they have stopped this almost altogether.

I will point out that most GW1 changes were obvious because they weren’t shy about big buff and big nerfs but still…

sevenDEADLY.5281:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Unfortunately most people don’t have enough insight to give constructive advice and would rather make baseless accusations or just flat out insult any one who disagrees with them.

This man knows the score.

But doesn’t know the posts in this forum that are constructive so …
… Claim failed.
Because there’s a bunch of them.

Congratz on the major white knighting, kudos.

It seems you have very little idea of the ramifications of the last change they made to AF and it has been indeed, a warranted outcry by the community.

I’ll give you a condensed version;

The less healing power and toughness you have, the more AF you generate. If you spam sources of Regen and use SotW you’re going to generate AF much faster than if you focus on healing skills that heal for more. That in itself is a massive design flaw no matter how you look at it.

But hey, I guess the only mode is PvE and they don’t balance around PvP.

We have every right to complain and what do you expect, we had our elite spec stalled to the end due to reworks, only had one beta weekend to test and we’re being pushed from pillar to post every patch. That is going to be infuriating to the ranger/druid community.

That’s why my signature is what it is right now. :P I’ve certainly noticed how every single class forum seems to be talking about how little the developers care.

…

That said, I most certainly pity Rangers more than the rest. Druid and the new pets were pretty awesome in Beta, but it’s just been downhill every step of the way from there. X) Whereas I can understand lack of changes due to lack of time, Ranger just keeps getting suckerpunched over and over again. Ranger doesn’t have a lack of change, it’s an excess of bad change.