Guild Wars 2

@Obtena
I think we misunderstood each other.
What I had in mind was that they created a game where it was Every Man for himself. That’s why everyone has a heal as a set ability in their action bar. And everyone has access to CC, just like mobility or straightforward offense.

Then, after they created a game like this – they decided they will force roles onto people to destroy that very same ideology they created. And what’s worse – the numbers they created just won’t work, ever, because the game’s structure is just not designed for that triangular role system (and they have been ignoring balance so far). It’s like trying to celebrate Christmas in prison. You can do that but will never have the same result as in your desired environment.

Obtena.7952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Obtena.7952:

HoT being a power creep was their strategy to make them money? Wow, there is some overtime conspiracy theory going on there … I won’t bother to ask you for how you arrived at that conclusion.

Nerfing base healing is related to game balance if your goal is to make healing in your groups more dependent on gear of the healers instead of the classes that group is made up of. If that’s not clear to you, well, I will leave you to figure that out in your own cesspool of vitriol yourself.

……You don’t think the purpose of an expansion is for a company to make money?

That’s not what I said now is it? I’m challenging the ridiculous statement you made about how power creep was introduced in HoT to make money. I’m pretty sure HoT would have made money without power creep, probably more, since people abhor power creep anyways. It’s bad when you don’t understand other people, it’s even worse when you can’t even follow your own discussion.

What would have been the motivation for pvp/wvw players to buy it without the power creep? Especially rangers that had zero interest in being healers?

I personally couldn’t care less about the new boring kitten pve maps, I had to buy HoT to remain competitive in the pvp modes. Just like all wvw players had to buy it to have access to the new gear with better stats, and to be able to build up guild upgrades.

If the new specialisations had been a lateral progression like they claimed instead of a strait power creep they probably would have lost about 25-30% of their sales, at least until the price was more reasonable.

Obtena.7952:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Obtena.7952:

In otherwords, it’s a really nice spin on saying “we aren’t giving you good damage AND healing, now you have to choose stats to decide where you are on that spectrum”. I don’t really see a problem with that …

I do.
You can’t really deal damage in CAF (which is the main healing source) unless you want to suicide. It roots you in place if you do.

So now we are forced into healing power exclusively because if we don’t, our whole traitline that made us competitive is absolutely counter-productive and useless – in which case we might as well want to play the core ranger that is super bad. And anyone will tell you that.

I personally would not be okay with that.

I won’t discuss specifics, mainly because he have none from Anet ATM

… but currently, if your specing for Druid, your intention is to heal in a raid. now you are talking about being forced into heal power to heal in raids. If your primary role is to heal, regardless of how you gear to get it, then what is the concern for how good your damage is?

You are right, the difference might be damage, we won’t know until they change it, but why is that so unreasonable if the expectation is that you are there to heal anyways? I mean, the thinking that you’re going to be primary healer and complain about damage … that’s backwards.

As far as I’m concerned, this is exactly why it’s happening … You’re not OK with having your stats impact your healing? Funny … everyone has NO problem with stats impacting damage. It’s a double standard.

Healing in a raid has never been the reason I specced intro druid.
I’m guessing you are primarily a pve player. Maybe that’s why you don’t understand what a bad idea this is for pvp/wvw.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Obtena.7952:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Obtena.7952:

In otherwords, it’s a really nice spin on saying “we aren’t giving you good damage AND healing, now you have to choose stats to decide where you are on that spectrum”. I don’t really see a problem with that …

I do.
You can’t really deal damage in CAF (which is the main healing source) unless you want to suicide. It roots you in place if you do.

So now we are forced into healing power exclusively because if we don’t, our whole traitline that made us competitive is absolutely counter-productive and useless – in which case we might as well want to play the core ranger that is super bad. And anyone will tell you that.

I personally would not be okay with that.

I won’t discuss specifics, mainly because he have none from Anet ATM

… but currently, if your specing for Druid, your intention is to heal in a raid. now you are talking about being forced into heal power to heal in raids. If your primary role is to heal, regardless of how you gear to get it, then what is the concern for how good your damage is?

You are right, the difference might be damage, we won’t know until they change it, but why is that so unreasonable if the expectation is that you are there to heal anyways? I mean, the thinking that you’re going to be primary healer and complain about damage … that’s backwards.

As far as I’m concerned, this is exactly why it’s happening … You’re not OK with having your stats impact your healing? Funny … everyone has NO problem with stats impacting damage. It’s a double standard.

Healing in a raid has never been the reason I specced intro druid. I’m guessing you are primarily a pve player. Maybe that’s why you don’t understand what a bad idea this is for pvp/wvw.

It’s a bad idea for pvp/wvw? Maybe, but I don’t see what that has to do with the thread anyways … The OP isn’t talking about pvp/Wvw and neither was I.

Yeah, I’m really disappointed. I’m a zerker and they really did nothing for zerk other than a maul buff which is a weapon we don’t use in pve anyway. If they decided to nerf baseline heals and buff our damage builds I’d be somewhat ok with this, but as it stands this sucks.

Itemization in GW2 has been a joke since launch due to the nature of the game(dps,dps,dps,wvw,pvp,dps). I for one like that they are trying to make more equipment viable, but this change had to be announced way earlier to give people more time to adjust.

Probably ~90% of the player base play pure DPS.

So I roam around on a power druid, but I do rely on stealth into CA healing for my sustain. About how much healing power would I now have to run to be as effective at healing as I was with 0 healing power pre patch? I don’t have the time or patience to #math it out. Right now it does literally near nothing.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

So I roam around on a power druid, but I do rely on stealth into CA healing for my sustain. About how much healing power would I now have to run to be as effective at healing as I was with 0 healing power pre patch? I don’t have the time or patience to #math it out. Right now it does literally near nothing.

~ Kovu

Here, you won’t like the answer though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Did-the-math-on-the-new-CA-skills

jcbroe.4329:

Kovu.7560:

So I roam around on a power druid, but I do rely on stealth into CA healing for my sustain. About how much healing power would I now have to run to be as effective at healing as I was with 0 healing power pre patch? I don’t have the time or patience to #math it out. Right now it does literally near nothing.

~ Kovu

Here, you won’t like the answer though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Did-the-math-on-the-new-CA-skills

Around 450 Hp

450 is manageable. Guess my boon duration’s taking a 30% hit. I need to be able to use my elite spec (what a concept) and I need three stats to run an effective power build. I hate condi on ranger. Thanks for the info.

~ Kovu

We need trait options in the druid line which give DPS choices. The raid meta for druid is almost completely static now – the same two traits dominate druid choices and the other options are mostly ignored most of the time. A big part of why druid wins as the raid healer is Grace of the Land lessens the DPS loss of going into CA (it also boosts DPS with every Seed of Life which also benefits from Grace of the Land).

Compare that to Lingering Light, the GM trait which blinds. It’s not even used in PvP afaik. What if they replaced one GM trait with a trait which buffs the ranger’s DPS and not the party’s? You could still bring your GotL druid, but everyone else could pick the other DPS trait, losing the biggest offender from druid buffs.

It would be difficult to balance core ranger specs to compete with druid (because the two best could simply be taken along with druid), but why not tweak druid trait options so there is a DPS path that comes at the cost of most of the druid’s buffs/support? There are necro traits which change death shroud and there are DPS traits that compete with utility/support ones, why not actually design the druid line so that there are compelling alternate options on how to play the druid?

It might be very difficulty, support/healing might be too baked into druid to make a balanced DPS path, but it really sucks that rangers have to be healers until the next elite spec is released.

Shiren.9532:

We need trait options in the druid line which give DPS choices. The raid meta for druid is almost completely static now – the same two traits dominate druid choices and the other options are mostly ignored most of the time. A big part of why druid wins as the raid healer is Grace of the Land lessens the DPS loss of going into CA (it also boosts DPS with every Seed of Life which also benefits from Grace of the Land).

Compare that to Lingering Light, the GM trait which blinds. It’s not even used in PvP afaik. What if they replaced one GM trait with a trait which buffs the ranger’s DPS and not the party’s? You could still bring your GotL druid, but everyone else could pick the other DPS trait, losing the biggest offender from druid buffs.

It would be difficult to balance core ranger specs to compete with druid (because the two best could simply be taken along with druid), but why not tweak druid trait options so there is a DPS path that comes at the cost of most of the druid’s buffs/support? There are necro traits which change death shroud and there are DPS traits that compete with utility/support ones, why not actually design the druid line so that there are compelling alternate options on how to play the druid?

It might be very difficulty, support/healing might be too baked into druid to make a balanced DPS path, but it really sucks that rangers have to be healers until the next elite spec is released.

/sigh I miss the good version of Lingering Light. When it was useful.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Obtena
I think we misunderstood each other.
What I had in mind was that they created a game where it was Every Man for himself. That’s why everyone has a heal as a set ability in their action bar. And everyone has access to CC, just like mobility or straightforward offense.

Then, after they created a game like this – they decided they will force roles onto people to destroy that very same ideology they created. And what’s worse – the numbers they created just won’t work, ever, because the game’s structure is just not designed for that triangular role system (and they have been ignoring balance so far). It’s like trying to celebrate Christmas in prison. You can do that but will never have the same result as in your desired environment.

I think it is You who misunderstood the general idea of what the Devs had in mind while getting rid of the Holy Trinity of MMORPG’s. It is not Every Man for themselves. It was Every Man is a hero – of the story, of the dungeon, or fractal, or raid. Everyone was supposed to be able to be the Hero – like Wethospou (if You don’t remember the guy who was THE warrior who soloed pretty much every possible dungeon path). You were supposed to be able to say “I did it! Me!” – without need to relay on healer, off-tank and two dpses – like in majority of MMORPGs.

However by doing that they forced people to play like a zerg. The parties dmg capabilities were equal to sum of dps of each individual player joining – look at WvW. Massive columns of players, no synergy, no tactics, no strategy – simply steamroll the enemy. And to avoid waste of time the steamrolls often avoid each other. While in games like Warhammer Online – player squads or parties acquired higher overall effectiveness due to synergy of used classes.

Thus – stop whining that druid is focused on healing – since if you really want to deal damage just pick any class from the 9 available. The diversity in druid means that in the sea of dpses someone can actually heal other people – thats class diversity.

wolfyrik.2017:

/sigh I miss the good version of Lingering Light. When it was useful.

Likewise.