Guild Wars 2

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

My biggest worry is we get the Warrior Treatment, as in to much to fast..

I read the suggestions Allie posted that she wants to pass on to the team, and i’m worried we’ll get a lot of that stuff.

Because frankly, I’d be a monster if I got even half of it..

Crap like wanting Shortbow to have Confusion/Torment/Burning just blows my mind..

That weapon would be so bloody overpowered.

Things like Lowering Trolls Urgent Cooldown + giving it condition removal…TU is pretty powerful as a heal right now..It doesn’t need anything, Heal as One could use something like that.. but not TU

Some of the trait suggestions are fine.. I just don’t want this class to end up like the Warrior.

Which is likely to happen…..and it isn’t surprising because pretty much every game like this evolves that way. The classes play a game of ‘tag your it’ taking turns being the strong class. A class can go from zero to hero with 1 or 2 minor tweaks.

The one thing I will say about Warrior though…and most classes, are their trait lines make sense. Ranger is always going to have a hindrance because their trait lines are all over the map. I never realized how bad it was until I started playing other classes where it seems there are so many more tough choices to make when picking traits. I always feel I am leaving something good out. Too many times with Rangers I end up picking a trait i don’t really want or need …but there isn’t anything else to pick.

Just to say… Rangers rigth now are so unwanted… that it would take them being overpowered to make their ways back in groups…
And many of these changes are not helping in big fights, as in WvW, and just a little bit in fights like the current LS…
So… overpowered?

I feel like most would put us somewhat on par with mesmers… Nice survivability with such traits as cleanse on evades or pet swap, more damage with the pet finally hitting – which might need a balancing of it’s own – but still too much damage on AI based mechanics and not enough weapon AoE options for it to be worth something in large scale fights…

We would get to give buffs, but these would need to be pretty special OR potent for them to make up for our lack of damage in large-scale fights…

Imho, if we only get minor changes and tweaks every patch, rangers will never strike out as being a class people might want in dungeon runs, WvW groups or whatver… That would only make them strong in solo PvE or PvP, without it being recognised by the community…

I have no doubt that these proposals would need some tweaks, but, for once, I am not afraid of Rangers being overpowered… That would mean nerfs down the line, but the changes need to be important enough to shake the opinion the community at large has of rangers…

Rather – they’ve realized just how broken their classes are in light of everything, are now focusing solely on PvE, where nothing really matters.

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

My biggest worry is we get the Warrior Treatment, as in to much to fast..

I read the suggestions Allie posted that she wants to pass on to the team, and i’m worried we’ll get a lot of that stuff.

Because frankly, I’d be a monster if I got even half of it..

Crap like wanting Shortbow to have Confusion/Torment/Burning just blows my mind..

That weapon would be so bloody overpowered.

Things like Lowering Trolls Urgent Cooldown + giving it condition removal…TU is pretty powerful as a heal right now..It doesn’t need anything, Heal as One could use something like that.. but not TU

Some of the trait suggestions are fine.. I just don’t want this class to end up like the Warrior.

Which is likely to happen…..and it isn’t surprising because pretty much every game like this evolves that way. The classes play a game of ‘tag your it’ taking turns being the strong class. A class can go from zero to hero with 1 or 2 minor tweaks.

The one thing I will say about Warrior though…and most classes, are their trait lines make sense. Ranger is always going to have a hindrance because their trait lines are all over the map. I never realized how bad it was until I started playing other classes where it seems there are so many more tough choices to make when picking traits. I always feel I am leaving something good out. Too many times with Rangers I end up picking a trait i don’t really want or need …but there isn’t anything else to pick.

Oh trust me, I know games play the tag you’re it game when it comes to balance

I’ve said it before, but I was a Valkyrie Player in DAOC before they got buffed…and it was an awful class at the time.. but i did play it till RR8 before they got any buffs… and it kind of played out like the Warrior buffs in this game.

They ended up getting Charge..Which was pretty powerful, and was a good ability..Then they got what was basically Levi from Reavers…That was pretty over the top..

They they were like screw it, and they gave them a bloody massively overpowered Heal line..

But yea….. A lot of games are like that….I’m just hoping Rangers don’t end up that way..Then again i’ll probably be playing ESO by then so it won’t matter..

No kidding about the Valkrie. A buddy played one off and on. Then after the buff he was pretty much unkillable. We duoed with him on his Valk and me on my Skald. We would cross bridge choke points and hoped to get attacked by the stealth brigade hanging out there. It usually didn’t end well for them.

hehe, I was the first RR5 and RR10 valkyrie in DAOC….which is pretty bad considering I came back like 5 or 6 months after that expansion came out.

i think i was probably the first RR11 one as well, but just saying 10 is easy enough.

But yea…unkillable is an understatement on valkyrie at that time….It was so bad..I stopped logging in my buffbot and instead just ran with the CL buffs, you remember those? They were like the equiv of blue shaman buffs I think…I just buffed myself, and ran around solo ganking stealthers (usually two and 3 mans at a time) and anyone else who came by.

thefantasticg.3984:

Terravos.4059:

My biggest worry is we get the Warrior Treatment, as in to much to fast..

I would rather that than nothing at all, i.e. what we have gotten the last 1.5 years.

True, but we aren’t the warrior. If they make us too good they won’t just go back and slightly whittle down things one skill at a time. We would likely just get Beta Nerf 2.0 and end up even worse than we were before this whole thing.

Terravos.4059:

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

My biggest worry is we get the Warrior Treatment, as in to much to fast..

I read the suggestions Allie posted that she wants to pass on to the team, and i’m worried we’ll get a lot of that stuff.

Because frankly, I’d be a monster if I got even half of it..

Crap like wanting Shortbow to have Confusion/Torment/Burning just blows my mind..

That weapon would be so bloody overpowered.

Things like Lowering Trolls Urgent Cooldown + giving it condition removal…TU is pretty powerful as a heal right now..It doesn’t need anything, Heal as One could use something like that.. but not TU

Some of the trait suggestions are fine.. I just don’t want this class to end up like the Warrior.

Which is likely to happen…..and it isn’t surprising because pretty much every game like this evolves that way. The classes play a game of ‘tag your it’ taking turns being the strong class. A class can go from zero to hero with 1 or 2 minor tweaks.

The one thing I will say about Warrior though…and most classes, are their trait lines make sense. Ranger is always going to have a hindrance because their trait lines are all over the map. I never realized how bad it was until I started playing other classes where it seems there are so many more tough choices to make when picking traits. I always feel I am leaving something good out. Too many times with Rangers I end up picking a trait i don’t really want or need …but there isn’t anything else to pick.

Oh trust me, I know games play the tag you’re it game when it comes to balance

I’ve said it before, but I was a Valkyrie Player in DAOC before they got buffed…and it was an awful class at the time.. but i did play it till RR8 before they got any buffs… and it kind of played out like the Warrior buffs in this game.

They ended up getting Charge..Which was pretty powerful, and was a good ability..Then they got what was basically Levi from Reavers…That was pretty over the top..

They they were like screw it, and they gave them a bloody massively overpowered Heal line..

But yea….. A lot of games are like that….I’m just hoping Rangers don’t end up that way..Then again i’ll probably be playing ESO by then so it won’t matter..

No kidding about the Valkrie. A buddy played one off and on. Then after the buff he was pretty much unkillable. We duoed with him on his Valk and me on my Skald. We would cross bridge choke points and hoped to get attacked by the stealth brigade hanging out there. It usually didn’t end well for them.

hehe, I was the first RR5 and RR10 valkyrie in DAOC….which is pretty bad considering I came back like 5 or 6 months after that expansion came out.

i think i was probably the first RR11 one as well, but just saying 10 is easy enough.

But yea…unkillable is an understatement on valkyrie at that time….It was so bad..I stopped logging in my buffbot and instead just ran with the CL buffs, you remember those? They were like the equiv of blue shaman buffs I think…I just buffed myself, and ran around solo ganking stealthers (usually two and 3 mans at a time) and anyone else who came by.

Hah, the valkyrie buff has to be one of the most overdone class changes in DAoC history.
I made one when the expansion came out, but didn’t play it that much, as the class was kinda bland and boring. It needed some help, but the love they got….
I felt so cheesy soloing with my rr4 valkyrie after that, I went back to soloing on my lowbie rr valkyn zerker. :p
Brutalize with 25% spell duration, followed by Ragnarok spam at capped melee speed had it’s moments, though.

Ranger need a huge change and hopefully they will get such an update in the feature update coming soon!

I’ve given up on anet and gw2, development is abysmally slow, pvp is unrewarding and is no longer fun, balance is terrible, and the pve is simple underwhelming.

I just check forums now to see if a good patch comes along. This march 6 one seems to be a joke for pvp. If this game keeps disappointing you again and again, just quit and move on. SC2/League/Smite/Dota and other companies are more than willing to have your business, and they want it enough to be responsible with customers and responsive to feedback.

I’m just waiting for Wildstar and/or Elder Scrolls Online, right now I’ve lost all faith. When they finally actually posted on the CDI after the days of nothing it was just a copy paste of completely random garbage and “No kitten” ideas. They didn’t even say “Hey, we (the devs) liked these ones in particular. Lets focus on those and fine tune it because we are looking at doing it like blah blah blah” It was just a pity post that could have been done in 5 minutes of skimming the entire thread or having the most basic idea of playing a Ranger.

Substance E.4852:

thefantasticg.3984:

Terravos.4059:

My biggest worry is we get the Warrior Treatment, as in to much to fast..

I would rather that than nothing at all, i.e. what we have gotten the last 1.5 years.

True, but we aren’t the warrior. If they make us too good they won’t just go back and slightly whittle down things one skill at a time. We would likely just get Beta Nerf 2.0 and end up even worse than we were before this whole thing.

Probably. The CDI has convinced me I don’t need to play my Ranger anymore. I’ve gone back to playing Skyrim. There’s still ‘ish in that game I haven’t done. I’ll get my dailies still and log in for guild mission stuff, but that’s about it.

I think removing the main thread was a pretty bad idea. It consolidated a lot of the threads.

ilr.9675:

It wasn’t flooded by unique poster Proposals though. It was flooded by the same exact people adding 10-20 proposals all saying the same basic things while accomplishing NOTHING as far as naming an actual direction/theme that the ranger needed to go in.

Every little proposal was based off some personal grudge or brainfart each person has in one little specific part of the game they do the most of … which if they’re STILL actually playing ranger, is either Conquest, pointless WvW regen Roaming, or soloing Long-Bear like a bot but with slower reaction time and only slightly better environmental awareness. There might have 2 or 3 other people who ran Fractals too but that’s also a niche.

I never even got a chance to make a single formal proposal myself because of it.
If the Devs are real professionals about this, they’ll start a second round of this instead and just narrow the entire discussion down to the things they were already planning to do themselves anyway and just focus the entire discussion around that instead. And again, some flood control would be nice so that the forum-illuminatti (who post more than they actually play games) don’t bogart the entire thing.

^this. I made 2 posts in that thread saying something similar. The suggestions were all so near-sighted. The ranger needs direction, not just buffs.

At this point I am thinking that it is past time for the CDI to at least move to a different phase as now vocal members of other profession communities are starting to plot generic *Well ranger needs help, but so does X". I just got caught up and saw a couple of those and it is a sign of more to come, might need to have people start flagging them simple as they do not add anything constructive.

Bran.7425:

At this point I am thinking that it is past time for the CDI to at least move to a different phase as now vocal members of other profession communities are starting to plot generic *Well ranger needs help, but so does X". I just got caught up and saw a couple of those and it is a sign of more to come, might need to have people start flagging them simple as they do not add anything constructive.

The second I saw a necro start to complain like their class needs help I almost caved my skull in from how hard I facepalmed. Maybe they need condition help in pve but that’s hardly unique to them.

http://www.twitch.tv/gw2ascii/c/3575974

Necro “weakness” at work.

Substance E.4852:

Bran.7425:

At this point I am thinking that it is past time for the CDI to at least move to a different phase as now vocal members of other profession communities are starting to plot generic *Well ranger needs help, but so does X". I just got caught up and saw a couple of those and it is a sign of more to come, might need to have people start flagging them simple as they do not add anything constructive.

The second I saw a necro start to complain like their class needs help I almost caved my skull in from how hard I facepalmed. Maybe they need condition help in pve but that’s hardly unique to them.

http://www.twitch.tv/gw2ascii/c/3575974

Necro “weakness” at work.

By that reasoning Ranger is just fine since they have the Spirit builds in sPvP. Just because you’re playing the dead last class doesn’t mean there isn’t somebody stuck in 7th.

Engineer, Necromancer, and Elementalist all need serious reviews and might actually benefit from theirs since its not a question of the entire class being built on crap AI. heck, even the Thief could use some improved relevance in group play – trading away some of their current strengths for team-wide benefits.

Zoia.3678:

Terravos.4059:

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

Forzani.2584:

Terravos.4059:

My biggest worry is we get the Warrior Treatment, as in to much to fast..

I read the suggestions Allie posted that she wants to pass on to the team, and i’m worried we’ll get a lot of that stuff.

Because frankly, I’d be a monster if I got even half of it..

Crap like wanting Shortbow to have Confusion/Torment/Burning just blows my mind..

That weapon would be so bloody overpowered.

Things like Lowering Trolls Urgent Cooldown + giving it condition removal…TU is pretty powerful as a heal right now..It doesn’t need anything, Heal as One could use something like that.. but not TU

Some of the trait suggestions are fine.. I just don’t want this class to end up like the Warrior.

Which is likely to happen…..and it isn’t surprising because pretty much every game like this evolves that way. The classes play a game of ‘tag your it’ taking turns being the strong class. A class can go from zero to hero with 1 or 2 minor tweaks.

The one thing I will say about Warrior though…and most classes, are their trait lines make sense. Ranger is always going to have a hindrance because their trait lines are all over the map. I never realized how bad it was until I started playing other classes where it seems there are so many more tough choices to make when picking traits. I always feel I am leaving something good out. Too many times with Rangers I end up picking a trait i don’t really want or need …but there isn’t anything else to pick.

Oh trust me, I know games play the tag you’re it game when it comes to balance

I’ve said it before, but I was a Valkyrie Player in DAOC before they got buffed…and it was an awful class at the time.. but i did play it till RR8 before they got any buffs… and it kind of played out like the Warrior buffs in this game.

They ended up getting Charge..Which was pretty powerful, and was a good ability..Then they got what was basically Levi from Reavers…That was pretty over the top..

They they were like screw it, and they gave them a bloody massively overpowered Heal line..

But yea….. A lot of games are like that….I’m just hoping Rangers don’t end up that way..Then again i’ll probably be playing ESO by then so it won’t matter..

No kidding about the Valkrie. A buddy played one off and on. Then after the buff he was pretty much unkillable. We duoed with him on his Valk and me on my Skald. We would cross bridge choke points and hoped to get attacked by the stealth brigade hanging out there. It usually didn’t end well for them.

hehe, I was the first RR5 and RR10 valkyrie in DAOC….which is pretty bad considering I came back like 5 or 6 months after that expansion came out.

i think i was probably the first RR11 one as well, but just saying 10 is easy enough.

But yea…unkillable is an understatement on valkyrie at that time….It was so bad..I stopped logging in my buffbot and instead just ran with the CL buffs, you remember those? They were like the equiv of blue shaman buffs I think…I just buffed myself, and ran around solo ganking stealthers (usually two and 3 mans at a time) and anyone else who came by.

Hah, the valkyrie buff has to be one of the most overdone class changes in DAoC history.
I made one when the expansion came out, but didn’t play it that much, as the class was kinda bland and boring. It needed some help, but the love they got….
I felt so cheesy soloing with my rr4 valkyrie after that, I went back to soloing on my lowbie rr valkyn zerker. :p
Brutalize with 25% spell duration, followed by Ragnarok spam at capped melee speed had it’s moments, though.

I use to make the Hibs and Albs rage on Merlin/Kilibury because I’d usually just sit around Bled Bridge area looking for solo fights…and 8mans would come running by and i’d intentionally wait till they’d get near..Charge at them, Dex/Quick Sheer and run away while Charged…..The amount of hate i’d get from that was pretty hilarious.

I think mainly because most Valkyries ran the Shield Slam/Spear/or Brutalize type builds, while I ran 50 sword/48 Odins/22 Mend/20 Shield/4 Parry spec (think that’s the right spec)

Odins Will was highly underestimated in that game.

But yea…That class got the biggest buff in the history of MMO’s

Loubbo.9852:

I’m just waiting for Wildstar and/or Elder Scrolls Online, right now I’ve lost all faith. When they finally actually posted on the CDI after the days of nothing it was just a copy paste of completely random garbage and “No kitten” ideas. They didn’t even say “Hey, we (the devs) liked these ones in particular. Lets focus on those and fine tune it because we are looking at doing it like blah blah blah” It was just a pity post that could have been done in 5 minutes of skimming the entire thread or having the most basic idea of playing a Ranger.

I’m killing time waiting for ESO as well…i’ve already decided that’s what i’m moving to play next.

Its why i’ve not taken the CDI thread very seriously.

I think it’s pretty obvious that Anet has never had any real vision for the ranger class and they never will. No surprise people are giving up.

When i take a look at the ranger, it’s design, traits, pet, description etc, the phrase “a camel is a horse designed by a committee” always comes to mind. Basically meaning the ineffectiveness of too many conflicting opinions into a single project.

Instead of having a real vision for the class, they just mashed a bunch of ideas together and out came the ranger. Theres a bloody trait called “beastmasters bond” in the marksman tree. What on earth does that have to do with marksman? It’s a mess.

CrossFire.8037:

I think it’s pretty obvious that Anet has never had any real vision for the ranger class and they never will. No surprise people are giving up.

When i take a look at the ranger, it’s design, traits, pet, description etc, the phrase “a camel is a horse designed by a committee” always comes to mind. Basically meaning the ineffectiveness of too many conflicting opinions into a single project.

Instead of having a real vision for the class, they just mashed a bunch of ideas together and out came the ranger. Theres a bloody trait called “beastmasters bond” in the marksman tree. What on earth does that have to do with marksman? It’s a mess.

That is brilliant. Have never heard that before. That goes into my collection of memorable quotes and phrases.

Chokolata.1870:

Well, the ranger is the most controversial class in the game…….The Archer* class is in every RPG as important as the Warrior and the Mage…
Here you are chained to the pet……You are beastmaster first and foremost…. a very bad one at that…..The very design of the game does not allow you to play archer. The closest thing that comes to a ranged class is the rifle kill-shot warrior, but that is a one trick pony and not a viable style at all in the long run……The missing third big pillar of any RPG , THE MEDIUM ARMOR NIMBLE ARCHER is missing and people have every right to be upset…..Conclusion: the closest thing to the archer is the ranger but you are chained to the ill working pet, you cannot really play bows…….

Amen to my fellow Archer Brethen

and then Allie got trolled…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Ranger-Pets-Overpowered/first

I came to to GW2 to play an arrow slinger. I play the hunter / ranger archetype in every MMO I’ve played. My first character and my account namesake is my ranger, and I’ve made alts because well, endgame. I’ve lost faith in this game’s desire to make the game more than a shopping hub for pretty skins and boosts, and so I tried Wildstar which I didn’t really enjoy plus it’s NCSoft. So now it’s on to TESO.

Nike.2631:

Substance E.4852:

Bran.7425:

At this point I am thinking that it is past time for the CDI to at least move to a different phase as now vocal members of other profession communities are starting to plot generic *Well ranger needs help, but so does X". I just got caught up and saw a couple of those and it is a sign of more to come, might need to have people start flagging them simple as they do not add anything constructive.

The second I saw a necro start to complain like their class needs help I almost caved my skull in from how hard I facepalmed. Maybe they need condition help in pve but that’s hardly unique to them.

http://www.twitch.tv/gw2ascii/c/3575974

Necro “weakness” at work.

By that reasoning Ranger is just fine since they have the Spirit builds in sPvP. Just because you’re playing the dead last class doesn’t mean there isn’t somebody stuck in 7th.

Engineer, Necromancer, and Elementalist all need serious reviews and might actually benefit from theirs since its not a question of the entire class being built on crap AI. heck, even the Thief could use some improved relevance in group play – trading away some of their current strengths for team-wide benefits.

True but if you’re #5-6, you don’t go into #8’s thread to complain about how bad you have it.

Substance E.4852:

Nike.2631:

Substance E.4852:

Bran.7425:

At this point I am thinking that it is past time for the CDI to at least move to a different phase as now vocal members of other profession communities are starting to plot generic *Well ranger needs help, but so does X". I just got caught up and saw a couple of those and it is a sign of more to come, might need to have people start flagging them simple as they do not add anything constructive.

The second I saw a necro start to complain like their class needs help I almost caved my skull in from how hard I facepalmed. Maybe they need condition help in pve but that’s hardly unique to them.

http://www.twitch.tv/gw2ascii/c/3575974

Necro “weakness” at work.

By that reasoning Ranger is just fine since they have the Spirit builds in sPvP. Just because you’re playing the dead last class doesn’t mean there isn’t somebody stuck in 7th.

Engineer, Necromancer, and Elementalist all need serious reviews and might actually benefit from theirs since its not a question of the entire class being built on crap AI. heck, even the Thief could use some improved relevance in group play – trading away some of their current strengths for team-wide benefits.

True but if you’re #5-6, you don’t go into #8’s thread to complain about how bad you have it.

We’re only the 8th strongest class until they add a 9th class so enjoy being number 8.

Well the CDI is over. Was it a success or failure? We’ll have to wait, however I do not think they will be doing another profession-focused one in the near future.

All I can draw from this is the ranger community is probably one of the most divided of the profession.

Bran.7425:

Well the CDI is over. Was it a success or failure? We’ll have to wait, however I do not think they will be doing another profession-focused one in the near future.

All I can draw from this is the ranger community is probably one of the most divided of the profession.

Nah, not divided really.

I’ve never played an mmo were there was not a small vocal group calling for at least one class to be totally redesigned to suit their specific play-style, and everyone else be kittened. In this case it’s the sniper/archers wanna-bes’ that spam posted endlessly. It’s perfectly normal. And the spam posting by the same 7 or 8 folks, thinking that restating the same point a dozen times with ever increasing emotion will work, this is to be expected as well. And the exaggerated, “we are totally broken, Anet hates/ignores us”, this too is no surprise. Just another typical week in a cartoon video game forums – lol.

That said, the 3 most important points in regards to pets were driven home. So I expect to see a reasonable effort made for pets to handle AOE better in dungeons and zerg-balls. Also, a change or two to increase hit chance by pets and improved f2 responsiveness.

And there were some excellent suggestions made in regards to Longbows, Swords and Axes as well. I expect to see a few changes here as well. And perhaps a few traits redesigned to fit the weapon changes.

When the devs meet, they will sort out the reasonable and intelligent suggestions, and trash-can the whines and exaggerated nonsense. Overall it will result in some positive changes. Of course there will be no pleasing the “pets sux, we need more dps, pets sux, we need more dps crowd” – but hey, those types are never happy unless they can one-shot someone in WvW from 1500.

Ision.3207:

- but hey, those types are never happy unless they can one-shot someone in WvW from 1500.

Do you me like kill shot?

I think that the information is there, just its going to take alot to decipher it. I agree with you points about pet, I hope that it has been driven home how difficult they are to manage in some instances, and we may already see some improvement in the so call feature patch that we should see in the coming months.

the thing i find more interesting and scary is that; I and I am sure others have come accustom to the shot comings and hidden advantages of the class as it stands now, and some of the more practical purposed suggestions and summary listed in red posts would force my to completely re-think that way the i currently play and i am not sure that is a good or a bad thing.

can anyone explain me what’s going on? got back to the game yesterday

felipelana.1963:

can anyone explain me what’s going on? got back to the game yesterday

The CDI topic to discuss Rangers went wildly out of control early on, stayed out of control to the end, and there’s very likely a big difficulty getting a coherent picture out of the thread other than “players who play rangers aren’t happy” . . .

Well, and “pets are broken, so some people want the limb amputated and some want a prosthetic”.

CDI was a total waste of time. It had absolutely 0 interest from ANet and wasn’t productive from the word go. We spent 2 weeks talking about removing the pets entirely when everyone with an ounce of common sense should have known was never going to be realistically considered.

We never even discussed why everyone in WvW despises the class.

If anything comes of this it will be a miracle. Especially in a timely manner.

Atherakhia.4086:

CDI was a total waste of time. It had absolutely 0 interest from ANet and wasn’t productive from the word go. We spent 2 weeks talking about removing the pets entirely when everyone with an ounce of common sense should have known was never going to be realistically considered.

We never even discussed why everyone in WvW despises the class.

If anything comes of this it will be a miracle. Especially in a timely manner.

actually several things were mentioned about WvW like how pets are useless on attacking/defending towers and keeps because they can not attack foes over the wall or on the wall. Also the lack of burst/ spike abilities as well as the lack of support abilities was brought up.

Ision.3207:

Bran.7425:

Well the CDI is over. Was it a success or failure? We’ll have to wait, however I do not think they will be doing another profession-focused one in the near future.

All I can draw from this is the ranger community is probably one of the most divided of the profession.

Nah, not divided really.

I’ve never played an mmo were there was not a small vocal group calling for at least one class to be totally redesigned to suit their specific play-style, and everyone else be kittened. In this case it’s the sniper/archers wanna-bes’ that spam posted endlessly. It’s perfectly normal. And the spam posting by the same 7 or 8 folks, thinking that restating the same point a dozen times with ever increasing emotion will work, this is to be expected as well. And the exaggerated, “we are totally broken, Anet hates/ignores us”, this too is no surprise. Just another typical week in a cartoon video game forums – lol.

That said, the 3 most important points in regards to pets were driven home. So I expect to see a reasonable effort made for pets to handle AOE better in dungeons and zerg-balls. Also, a change or two to increase hit chance by pets and improved f2 responsiveness.

And there were some excellent suggestions made in regards to Longbows, Swords and Axes as well. I expect to see a few changes here as well. And perhaps a few traits redesigned to fit the weapon changes.

When the devs meet, they will sort out the reasonable and intelligent suggestions, and trash-can the whines and exaggerated nonsense. Overall it will result in some positive changes. Of course there will be no pleasing the “pets sux, we need more dps, pets sux, we need more dps crowd” – but hey, those types are never happy unless they can one-shot someone in WvW from 1500.

That bolded part… No.. Not just them. It’s those of us who like to melee as well.

In the end, I have lost hope for this class despite my carrying it much longer than many others I play with.

The name of the game in PVE/Dungeons is the more dps and the faster the dps the better. Obviously that is not what the Ranger is intended to do. Sure, my Beastmaster will be good for running world boss events when I’ve already done it on my other 6 toons, and when I want to forge… but that is it. And it’ll be good at being a mule… I’ll split my time more between my other toons, mostly my guardian, warrior, ele, and mesmer.

Atherakhia.4086:

CDI was a total waste of time. It had absolutely 0 interest from ANet and wasn’t productive from the word go. We spent 2 weeks talking about removing the pets entirely when everyone with an ounce of common sense should have known was never going to be realistically considered.

We never even discussed why everyone in WvW despises the class.

If anything comes of this it will be a miracle. Especially in a timely manner.

Well, it’s not like people would drop it even after it was said. Or just sniped at how it was stupid. Or argued whether it was needed or not, right up until the end.

It’s at least partially our fault, the community, for wasting that time.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Atherakhia.4086:

CDI was a total waste of time. It had absolutely 0 interest from ANet and wasn’t productive from the word go. We spent 2 weeks talking about removing the pets entirely when everyone with an ounce of common sense should have known was never going to be realistically considered.

We never even discussed why everyone in WvW despises the class.

If anything comes of this it will be a miracle. Especially in a timely manner.

Well, it’s not like people would drop it even after it was said. Or just sniped at how it was stupid. Or argued whether it was needed or not, right up until the end.

It’s at least partially our fault, the community, for wasting that time.

to be honest if we could police the forum better we would have had a lot less issues, also if we were more directed to discussion points it would have helped a lot… when there is no aim or goal you get a lot of the idiots voicing their opinion about how stupid the pets were and that they should be removed every time. I mean every freaking time we got in-between subjects they brought it up.

I know I was like a broken record myself at times, so I’m not blameless entirely. Really the problems are a few, some of which are out of any single person’s hands.

- Allie disappeared for the better part of a week, and claimed she was sick. No other red-poster jumped in to let us know or to try to keep it in order until it was already on a runaway course.

- There were countless mentions and continual bringing up of the pet needing to be removed rather than tweaked. Even after Allie made clear early on this was not an option the developers wanted to pursue, it kept coming up as “the only sane choice” more often than it should have. This also includes barbed comments about how this meant the CDI was already a failure since this was off the table for discussion.

- There was a lot of time devoted to retreading the same discussions about what needed tweaking exactly, and bogging down in trying to come up with exactly rebalanced revisions. Which may have been awesome but were basically saying “let us do your job for you”.

- Finally, we had the discussion which revolved around whether or not the ranger was “acceptable” in game modes as is. And the general consensus was impossible to make because for every one person saying “I think we are mostly okay in XvX” it was replied with the sentiment from a couple people “of course not, are you blind or an idiot”. It only really served to run in circles over and over.

What we kind of needed most were a few things.

- More consistent participation. The absence in the beginning stages kind of set the tone and got more than a few people to get adversarial about the whole thing instead of assisting. We need the CDI moderators to have backups in case of RL problems (Chris going to the hospital, Allie getting sick…) or in case of lack of knowledge (“I don’t know, let me ask” followed by someone who does know clarifying.)

- Contributors self-policing. On the next one, it’s somewhat imperative not to go backwards into a topic moved past and recycle the whole thing again. And new posters should open up with “hey, had X been discussed?” And the reply shouldn’t be “yes, read the whole thing”, it should be someone graciously posting a link to where it was discussed so they can read from there. If they just want to drop their two-cents off? Let them but don’t revive an argument for ten pages over it.

- Some structure to posts. People who post using the proposal template Chris set up should try their best to keep it consistent – edit in changes to a proposal post and post a quote-link if they edit it down the line for reasons. Start posts with proposals in the bold lettering, discussions in everything else so people can skim for the proposal posts to see what people are suggesting.

Anyway, we’ve got to do this better It’s not rangers next but I think they’ll still need help getting through what their problems are.

@Tobias: How dare you blame it on the posters?? The topic was poorly moderated from the get go and we had zero feedback on the developer side of things. Never did we get a “we are considering this and that” and the closest thing to a proper interaction was a gathered list that will be shown to the developers.

Im calling it now. Next patch will be a net nerf to the ranger

Chokolata.1870:

@Tobias: How dare you blame it on the posters?? The topic was poorly moderated from the get go and we had zero feedback on the developer side of things. Never did we get a “we are considering this and that” and the closest thing to a proper interaction was a gathered list that will be shown to the developers.

Im calling it now. Next patch will be a net nerf to the ranger

You are both correct. Horrible format without any guidance + posters spamming unrealistic “ideas” and redesigning the class with zero chance of having it implemented = clusterkitten

I don’t think Tobias is really blaming the players and he’s done a pretty good job outlining what ANet did wrong.

In my opinion, Anet gave the same impression they’ve given every time the Ranger has come up. Total disinterest and a lack of real understanding where the class fits into the game they’ve made. It was this way in our 12/15 thread, our SotG commentaries, the patch highlight twitch stream, and the Ranger class twitch stream. No energy or passion whatsoever.

I personally lost all faith and interest in the thread after Allie’s ‘sustained damage model’ response. The class has very obvious problems and hasn’t worked in a very long time. Instead of admitting the class doesn’t fit into the game they’ve made, they’re just going to ‘keep on doing’ and attempt to bring the game down to the Ranger’s level.

After 3 (or was it 2?) weeks, I’m left with the same impression I had going in to be honest. No one at ANet plays the class.

Am I the only one here that thought the CDI was deliberately structured by Anet to fail??

Anet could could have taken control of the CDI any time they wanted, but they deliberately let it slide into mayhem. Why?? Because they know full well what the problems are, but do not want to the spend the time and resources to fix them.

This way Anet can say they tried but the ranger community failed to understand Anet’s concept for the class, so they can carry on ignoring the problems.

bri.2359:

Am I the only one here that thought the CDI was deliberately structured by Anet to fail??

It was clear from the start Allie was incapable of running the ranger CDI. Crikey, she obviously never played a ranger let alone understood complex class balance issues. How could she be expected to pass this stuff on to the devs?

Anet could could have taken control of the CDI any time they wanted, but they deliberately let it slide into mayhem. Why?? Because they know full well what the problems are, but do want to the spend the time and resources to fix them.

This way Anet can say they tried but the ranger community failed to understand Anet’s concept for the class, so they can carry on ignoring the problems.

Agree 100%. I have said the same thing from the beginning….and I have been called a conspiracy theorist. I believe the CDI was created to let the Ranger population vent and hopefully placate them for awhile.

Eventually ……..eventually, there will be some small tweaks. They are not going to reinvent the class like so many think.

I thought it was decent at the start but you soon realized that it was all a gimmick, especially if you were following the other CDI and all the responses they were getting in comparison. It just went down hill from there, with the general complete lack of dev input, the “sustained damage” comment, the pity post recap of the thread that could have been done in 5 minutes, and finally the “2X4” post that everyone absolutely tore apart (and for good reason). It just reaffirmed everyone’s suspicion that no dev actually plays Ranger at any competent lvl.

Instead of venting your frustration here, what are you going to do about it?

My suggestion? Create a Thread every week in the Balance Forums. Title it

“[Ranger]Roundtable Discussion : X”

Where X can be :::

• Pets
• Shouts
• Signets
• Longbow
• Sword
• Traits
• Traps
• Burst vs. Sustained
• Split Focus vs. Single Focus
• Etc.

The Rules are simple

• Everyone is allowed 1 post to tell everyone their view on the current state of what the topic is about, and their suggestions for fixing it if they want to offer a suggestion.

• No multi-post cross discussions, no Arguments. No personal attacks.

• No Chrispy calling out someone like a broken record for posting the 150th kill shot suggestion (….as much as I would like to…)(yes, I am admitting fault for my contribution to the mess).

• Format your posts however you want, as long as they still follow forum rules.

• Everyone in the thread is equal and everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether its a trollish person saying “pets suck, remove them please”, or its a post that goes into every detail on what is wrong with pets, or its someone saying that “pets are just fine the way they are,… nerf please”

• The Thread stays open for one week, at which point, the next Roundtable thread is opened for the next topic. If you really want to, instead of such a chivalrous name as Roundtable, we can title it Hunter’s Gathering or something, the only reason is so all the threads have the same title, so we can access them easily.

Stop the reliance on Anet. Infact, to hell with them. Its one of the reasons the CDI got so out of control. We kept venting our frustrations elsewhere until the moment came when Anet finally said they were going to listen (without actually listening). Then the CDI got flooded, and Anet themselves were never able to bring the mess together. We don’t need a CDI, just a way to gather everyone’s opinions in one place, and in an organized format. Personally, I think the CDI’s are a mess anyways,…every single one of them have been a mess of some caliber, and the suggested proposal format itself isn’t exactly the best format in the world either.

If anyone has a better format or way to go about this, please say so. If its a good idea, lets start the first thread tonight. 9Personally I don’t think it should be pet related to start. Let that issue come later. Lets start with the Longbow or something, so everyone knows where the community as a whole stands on the Longbow. It could be 150 posts in agreement, or 150 posts that all say something different. It would still be better than the mess that came out of the CDI.)

I’m all for your idea Chrispy, but I’d suggest the first topic be WvW instead of a specific weapon, unless you think that’s too broad? I only suggest WvW because the new season starts next week so maybe we’d get some feedback from other players and what they feel about the class as opposed to only Rangers complaining about the class they play?

May want to put it on the WvW forum as well?

I’ll admit, I totally forgot the new season was starting next week…Lets do WvW instead. And I don’t think any topic is too broad, as long as it generally sticks to one profession (Ranger in this case). I’d rather keep the thread in one specific subforum though, since having 2 different threads with the same title might get confusing to follow.

And yeah, any player should be entitled to make a post and give their thoughts, not just Rangers.

Chrispy.5641:

I’ll admit, I totally forgot the new season was starting next week…Lets do WvW instead. And I don’t think any topic is too broad, as long as it generally sticks to one profession (Ranger in this case). I’d rather keep the thread in one specific subforum though, since having 2 different threads with the same title might get confusing to follow.

And yeah, any player should be entitled to make a post and give their thoughts, not just Rangers.

In a perfect world maybe it would work. Reality? Unless you have an active moderator involved it’s going to end up exactly the same as the CDI = garbage

..and my stance will never change on opinions. I prefer informed opinions from people that know the class. Not an outside source looking in…..or else that also turns into a cesspool of “well my class doesn’t have that, why would Rangers need that” …“my class needs more help first” etc etc vomit ….just like what happened in the CDI

Stop the reliance on Anet. Infact, to hell with them

Unfortunatley Anet is the one that would be making any changes so yea, they are kind of needed.

I have to admit, prior to this round of threads I was against a player council.

Now I’m considering it if it would give someone — anyone — real access to the people who actually make the decisions instead of a red named secretary passing notes and tossing out “insights” that are so simplistic and divorced from real gameplay as to be offensive. Busted Pet AI is “a broken 2×4.” Yeah, that one is going down in the Hall of Shame.

Nike.2631:

I have to admit, prior to this round of threads I was against a player council.

Now I’m considering it if it would give someone — anyone — real access to the people who actually make the decisions instead of a red named secretary passing notes and tossing out “insights” that are so simplistic and divorced from real gameplay as to be offensive. Busted Pet AI is “a broken 2×4.” Yeah, that one is going down in the Hall of Shame.

That’s the only way it would work. Just like they do in any AGM …strata meeting…business meeting……committees etc etc. A filter is needed before presenting it to the man. A neat, concise well written format that Anet can use and not have to decipher.

Nike.2631:

I have to admit, prior to this round of threads I was against a player council.

Now I’m considering it if it would give someone — anyone — real access to the people who actually make the decisions instead of a red named secretary passing notes and tossing out “insights” that are so simplistic and divorced from real gameplay as to be offensive. Busted Pet AI is “a broken 2×4.” Yeah, that one is going down in the Hall of Shame.

My only concern with a player council approach is the same problem I had with all those SotG podcasts that Grouch lead. They never looked at the class as a whole, they only ever focused on one little niche and so long as the Ranger offered something in that niche, they were under the impression the class was perfect.

It will be the same with the player council imo. Those who like the condi builds or prefer playing non-ranged rangers may not be able/willing to discuss these topics for the betterment of the class as a whole. They’ll simply accept that the way they play is safe and secure and ignore the issues that don’t directly affect them.

Forzani.2584:

Stop the reliance on Anet. Infact, to hell with them

Unfortunatley Anet is the one that would be making any changes so yea, they are kind of needed.

I’m just saying to hell with anet as far as getting a community run thread going. The reason for that is……Anet doesn’t really seem to care anyways when it comes to taking an active part in the discussion.

Let the players themselves run the discussion, and if someone from Anet feels like posting (like in the Ranger Balance Thread), great. Otherwise, our constant waiting on Anet to start things for us is never going to get anything constructive done.

And I would still like to try it, without any specific player council. I think its a good thing to get as many different opinions on something as possible, even outsider opinions, so we don’t end up with a 1 sided point of view.

The one thing we need to do, is find a way to summarize everyone’s opinions at the end of the thread every week before the next one gets opened, because for the 1 CDI thread that I think worked (horizontal progression), those summaries were extremely helpful in showing where exactly the players stood on every issue brought up in the thread.

I’d suggest serious sub-division of the topic:

Ranger Weapon Skills
Ranger Healing/Utility/Elite Skills
Pet Skills/Behavior
Ranger Traits

A separate thread for each, one-at-a-time, in that order. With clear ground rules to build on what exists – no complete do overs no matter how much you may object to what is in the game now. Getting approval for change always hinges on minimizing the chaos.

I guess this dividion is just whet the devs have done – behind the scenes – to sort information and to make it easter to handle now while they deal with all feedback, proposals and suggestions…

If they asked US to do it… I Think ppl would have a hard time staying on topic since we started posting suggestions even one week Before the CDI was up, due to the devs delaying it. Still, they TOLD us they were about to do so… a bunch of suggestions were posted EVERYWHERE!
Ppl were just too eager to get started! Same thing would have happened if topics were divided.