Guild Wars 2

Ranger
Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game.
To help Rangers support allies, we increased the ability ranger pets have to support allies. For instance, the Bear condition removal isn’t strong enough, so we’ll be improving that. Moas and Fern Hound will also be improved.
There will also be # changes to some of the Ranger weapons.
—————————————
Source: See dev posts for OP. thanks

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

Oh thank god… they’re finally listening to the “Counterplay” arguments.

…And you guys were giving me all kinds of kitten when I was saying that Rangers should be #1 counter to Stealth spammers even though I pointed out that was originally one of the most unique class mechanics rangers had in Gw2’s early Alpha builds.

.

No… one skill isn’t going to fix everything, but it’s a start. They can include more as time goes on. It also means they can start making some of the currently very boring HP-Sponge bosses in dungeons a lot more interesting by giving them more Stealth mechanics as well.

Also, don’t forget the confirmed pet health buff:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Pet HP split between PvE and PvP
We wanted to make pets and summons more viable in PvE/WvW while making sure they didn’t become too strong in PvP.

Sounds like it’ll affect us in WvW as well. Yay for more choice!

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

this right here is 100% of the reason they hesitate to post this kind of information. You are ungrateful, and if you offer no meaningful criticism, do not post at all.

Doug.9628:

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

this right here is 100% of the reason they hesitate to post this kind of information. You are ungrateful, and if you offer no meaningful criticism, do not post at all.

This is very meaningful. Sic em doesn’t even work properly.

Doug.9628:

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

this right here is 100% of the reason they hesitate to post this kind of information. You are ungrateful, and if you offer no meaningful criticism, do not post at all.

A bit harsh, but kinda true. We don’t yet know anything about it except for that they’ll allow it to apply revealed. Without knowing the full details of how the skill will change and then using it, we can’t honestly say whether or not it will be worth using.

We shouldn’t complain just to complain. We we want to help, then we should point out the exact reasons why something is lacking. Not just that it is lacking.

I always thought sick em was cool and this makes it cooler. What’s the issue with it not working? Did you know you have to select your target first? Anyways, I could have had a chance vs this camping 5 stack applied fortitude 5 stack guard leech 25 stack bloodlust BG theif who left a JQ account dead body laying around to gank people when they tried to rez. Screw that guy! Sick em! The dude was a bronze major, probably level 425 plus he had legendaries I mean COME ON. lol

Chopps.5047:

I always thought sick em was cool and this makes it cooler. What’s the issue with it not working? Did you know you have to select your target first? Anyways, I could have had a chance vs this camping 5 stack applied fortitude 5 stack guard leech 25 stack bloodlust BG theif who left a JQ account dead body laying around to gank people when they tried to rez. Screw that guy! Sick em! The dude was a bronze major, probably level 425 plus he had legendaries I mean COME ON. lol

Cannot be used without a valid targeted enemy.
The effect will end prematurely if a shout is used, the pet is given an order, the pet falls in battle, or the pet’s target becomes invisible or defeated.
Bug Bug:
This skill will fail when used while further than 2000 range from the target.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Doug.9628:

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

this right here is 100% of the reason they hesitate to post this kind of information. You are ungrateful, and if you offer no meaningful criticism, do not post at all.

A bit harsh, but kinda true. We don’t yet know anything about it except for that they’ll allow it to apply revealed. Without knowing the full details of how the skill will change and then using it, we can’t honestly say whether or not it will be worth using.

We shouldn’t complain just to complain. We we want to help, then we should point out the exact reasons why something is lacking. Not just that it is lacking.

Yes exactly. There is never any circumstance to complain for the sake of complaining unless you’re a whiny kitten. We don’t know if they fixed the bug for the patch JP is referring to, or exactly how it functions. All we know is that we have additional support utility, and this kitten is knocking it before we know anything about it. It’s childish.

I wonder what changes will be brought to weapons? Maybe Power Rangers will come back Or maybe it’s just fix to #1 sword skill for which I’d be more than grateful

I’ll be running Sic’em on my roaming build for wvw. My biggest enemies right now are Mesmer, Thief, and Warrior (not that I can’t beat them, but because they have amazing condition removal and/or take a while to pin down). If I can reveal them, I can eliminate a huge portion of a thieves condition removal and wreak havoc on them during those 10s. Same goes for mesmer except they don’t have as much condi clearing and instead will allow me to locate the real one much faster. As for warrior, no real improvement outside of pet buffs, I may start to use brown bear now because even if it only cleanses 2 condis on a 25s cd, that is so worth it.

This post is useless without links…

Atherakhia.4086:

This post is useless without links…

Here.

Forums -> dev posts. Two clicks, man. Are we rangers really this lazy? Maybe everything should be passive haha

Edit: cell phone has 1 clipboard so only let me copy/paste the message, didn’t know I had to write HTML for the url too. Lol

I honestly couldn’t care less about Sic’ Em revealing stealth. I mean, yay for functionality, but it is seems like such a specific function for such a specific situation that it will barely make the skill used more.

And, if the pet has to hit the target, let’s not forget how quickly people will rage on this skill when they watch their pet run around in circles, wasting the duration of Sic’ Em, and not hitting a thing (it’s bound to happen unless the pets receive an AI QoL improvement at the same time).

I’m not normally the one to be super negative about a patch, but if that is the highlight from the upcoming patch, then just wow. Those number changes better be good, because I apparently still won’t be changing my utilities around.

Now, if the skill functions differently, and let’s say, applies AoE stealth debuff on activation using the pet as a radius, it might actually be more useful than I’m imagining. But even then, it isn’t like it gives the ranger better group support in large scale battles. Most, if not all PvE content is going to be indifferent to a destealthing mechanic as well.

So…. again, those number changes better be good.

Seisyll.5914:

I wonder what changes will be brought to weapons? Maybe Power Rangers will come back Or maybe it’s just fix to #1 sword skill for which I’d be more than grateful

Maul is getting a buff next patch. That’s all I know of.

It’s really going to depend how Sick ’Em works. If it remains a skill you use and the pet has to hit the target, it could be bad. If instead you use the skill and the pet reveals all stealthed players around it and puts revealed on them for 4 seconds, it could be useful.

But it also needs to be brought up that anything that impacts the pet is of limited value so long as pets themselves are of limited value. While increasing their health is great, the pet dying is only part of the problem. F2 abilities still aren’t useable in their current form. We still have to rely on RNG for secondary skills after the pet is engaged.

It’s great to get a high level overview of what is coming. But since we still don’t know what ANet wants this class to even do in the first place, it’s hard to put these changes in context.

I also would love to hear what weapon changes we can expect. Longbow and Sword seem the most likely culprits as the locking animation for sword and the longbow overall are probably the most complained about things for this class.

jcbroe.4329:

I’m not normally the one to be super negative about a patch, but if that is the highlight from the upcoming patch, then just wow. Those number changes better be good, because I apparently still won’t be changing my utilities around.

It’s a highlight as it’s the first, and so far only, counterplay to stealth discussed by devs. That makes it a large highlight.

Also remember that no other details about the skill have been announced, so you shouldn’t assume that the known bugs will all be ignored.

I used to play a game called ‘Knight Online’. The Ranger class had a passive skill called ‘Lupin Eyes’, and it worked by simply revealing any stealthed enemy’s within a certain radius as ‘semi transparent’. Anyone who was in the rangers party got the passive buff of a infinite radius. It made it so that you NEEDED a Ranger in your party.

A little clarification of how that skill worked. It never actually revealed – as in removed the stealth buff – it just made it so that the person with the Lupin Eyes skill active could see the stealthed enemy.

Revealing AoE would be baller: I’d guard a pet in front of a veiling zerg and reveal them. Too bad it’s limited to just 5 targets. What a shame, I guess we need more rangers in wvw >:)

SynfulChaot.3169:

jcbroe.4329:

I’m not normally the one to be super negative about a patch, but if that is the highlight from the upcoming patch, then just wow. Those number changes better be good, because I apparently still won’t be changing my utilities around.

It’s a highlight as it’s the first, and so far only, counterplay to stealth discussed by devs. That makes it a large highlight.

Also remember that no other details about the skill have been announced, so you shouldn’t assume that the known bugs will all be ignored.

Actually, I can assume whatever I want, because those details aren’t set in stone anywhere, therefore being left up to assumption.

And, again, woohoo, counterplaying stealth. Now, I can get into dungeon groups. Now, I can be productive in world boss/raid style fights because I can destealth the big boss that doesn’t move an inch during the fight or even stealth. Now, I can send my pet into large balls of death in WvW and it will destealth something maybe before dying.

Yay, we’re so viable now! /sarcasm

Great, it’s a new mechanics. Great, it may be an exclusive mechanic. But in the grand scheme of things, it isn’t that amazing of a feature, and if that serves as the highlight of the upcoming patch, then it is doubtful that rangers will be seeing much more utility improvement beyond that.

I could be wrong, I would love to be wrong. But right now all I can discuss is the highlight, and it’s really just a terrible excuse for a much more necessary QoL and support/utility improvement.

Chopps.5047:

Revealing AoE would be baller: I’d guard a pet in front of a veiling zerg and reveal them. Too bad it’s limited to just 5 targets. What a shame, I guess we need more rangers in wvw >:)

What would be sweet is Sic Em acted like a ‘signet’. It could have a passive and active effect. Passive could be a reveal type AoE, almost like your pet is constantly sniffing for a scent, and then obviously the active would be like it normally is.

It seems to me the most obvious design change would be to make it a targeted AoE like Search and Rescue and Guard. Though I don’t know that it would really make as much sense for how Sic em is supposed to function. Of course just giving off a pulse at max range of the power that auto reveals all stealth would be good too, I guess, but that still begs the question, what are you targeting to make that happen?

jcbroe.4329:

Actually, I can assume whatever I want, because those details aren’t set in stone anywhere, therefore being left up to assumption.

And, again, woohoo, counterplaying stealth. Now, I can get into dungeon groups. Now, I can be productive in world boss/raid style fights because I can destealth the big boss that doesn’t move an inch during the fight or even stealth. Now, I can send my pet into large balls of death in WvW and it will destealth something maybe before dying.

Yay, we’re so viable now! /sarcasm

Great, it’s a new mechanics. Great, it may be an exclusive mechanic. But in the grand scheme of things, it isn’t that amazing of a feature, and if that serves as the highlight of the upcoming patch, then it is doubtful that rangers will be seeing much more utility improvement beyond that.

I could be wrong, I would love to be wrong. But right now all I can discuss is the highlight, and it’s really just a terrible excuse for a much more necessary QoL and support/utility improvement.

Not all changes need to apply to you, you know. No, that will not really affect us much/at all in PvE. But for WvW and PvP players, that is a good thing. Just as we shouldn’t get ignored in PvE in favour of balancing around PvP, WvWers shouldn’t get nothing just because we want all the attention.

And we’re getting plenty more. Unlisted weapon skill changes. Pet (and most likely spirit) health buffs in WvW and PvE.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It seems to me the most obvious design change would be to make it a targeted AoE like Search and Rescue and Guard. Though I don’t know that it would really make as much sense for how Sic em is supposed to function. Of course just giving off a pulse at max range of the power that auto reveals all stealth would be good too, I guess, but that still begs the question, what are you targeting to make that happen?

Haha, if the pet had a AoE style reveal, constantly on, thieves would have to be careful on there backstabs. they would have to be wary of the enemy’s pets position at all times.

Although I think it should be a Trait, rather than taking up a utility slot.

I was assuming that with changes to targeting, one does not lose target upon stealth per se. You can’t direct attack them but they’re still targeted. But, ya, I could be wrong. There are issues with sick em and jcbroe is surely making a valid statement about sick em reveal could be interpretted as just another gimmick in a bag of ranger gimmicks—something to make rangers “feel better” but not really anything subtantial.

The fact is, like someone else pointed out, we just don’t know what ANET is doing or how this will function. So it’s hard to judge.

SynfulChaot.3169:

jcbroe.4329:

Actually, I can assume whatever I want, because those details aren’t set in stone anywhere, therefore being left up to assumption.

And, again, woohoo, counterplaying stealth. Now, I can get into dungeon groups. Now, I can be productive in world boss/raid style fights because I can destealth the big boss that doesn’t move an inch during the fight or even stealth. Now, I can send my pet into large balls of death in WvW and it will destealth something maybe before dying.

Yay, we’re so viable now! /sarcasm

Great, it’s a new mechanics. Great, it may be an exclusive mechanic. But in the grand scheme of things, it isn’t that amazing of a feature, and if that serves as the highlight of the upcoming patch, then it is doubtful that rangers will be seeing much more utility improvement beyond that.

I could be wrong, I would love to be wrong. But right now all I can discuss is the highlight, and it’s really just a terrible excuse for a much more necessary QoL and support/utility improvement.

Not all changes need to apply to you, you know. No, that will not really affect us much/at all in PvE. But for WvW and PvP players, that is a good thing. Just as we shouldn’t get ignored in PvE in favour of balancing around PvP, WvWers shouldn’t get nothing just because we want all the attention.

And we’re getting plenty more. Unlisted weapon skill changes. Pet (and most likely spirit) health buffs in WvW and PvE.

It’s useful for roaming in WvW, yes. But PvP? What? How? If a player is playing perma-stealth in PvP, they aren’t contesting the point, and rangers have enough survival to be able to counter and outplay perma stealth thieves on homepoint 1v1 anyhow.

So when is this useful in PvP?

And pets are still going to die in WvW. How useful is destealthing 1-5 people, really? It will take an extremely coordinated group for it to be effective in, but it’s a waste for most people because they won’t be able to take advantage of the destealthing mechanic.

Yes, there are extremely specific situations in which it may be a tad bit useful, and maybe if BM builds ever return to a spot on the pvp meta, it would be slotted, and mostly because there’s really nothing else to use besides a trap or another stun breaker.

But honestly, it’s a much too limited improvement to be viable across the vast array of content that is in the game.

Chopps.5047:

Revealing AoE would be baller: I’d guard a pet in front of a veiling zerg and reveal them. Too bad it’s limited to just 5 targets. What a shame, I guess we need more rangers in wvw >:)

You mean 3 targets like the rest of our AoE?
All in all this seems lack luster and inconsequential in the grand scheme of the game. Just like Rangers.

jcbroe.4329:

It’s useful for roaming in WvW, yes. But PvP? What? How? If a player is playing perma-stealth in PvP, they aren’t contesting the point, and rangers have enough survival to be able to counter and outplay perma stealth thieves on homepoint 1v1 anyhow.

So when is this useful in PvP?

As a player that avoids PvP, I’m honestly not sure. But stealth is still used by some in PvP. It will allow some counter play, but most likely that change is solely focused at WvWers and few in PvP are likely to run it.

jcbroe.4329:

And pets are still going to die in WvW. How useful is destealthing 1-5 people, really? It will take an extremely coordinated group for it to be effective in, but it’s a waste for most people because they won’t be able to take advantage of the destealthing mechanic.

I don’t know about the pet still always dying thing. +70% health should do wonders for pet survivability. And I think it’s more meant for roamers rather than zergs. You know, roaming … where all the perma-stealth thieves come out to gank.

jcbroe.4329:

Yes, there are extremely specific situations in which it may be a tad bit useful, and maybe if BM builds ever return to a spot on the pvp meta, it would be slotted, and mostly because there’s really nothing else to use besides a trap or another stun breaker.

But honestly, it’s a much too limited improvement to be viable across the vast array of content that is in the game.

Maybe it wasn’t meant to be designed for all aspects of the game. But it is a great addition to some aspects, even if you won’t use it. Personally, I play almost exclusively PvE and am almost definitively not going to use it. But you know what? I welcome the change as it gives us more options as a class and I know that my fellow WvW rangers will be able to take advantage of it.

I dont know why we are still doing this talk…..Sick em applies reveal……..Seriously guys?Who this can be not good……

I do get ganked by troll thieves a lot. Lol it is infuriating because a good theif will ensure you never see it coming. The worst is when you see an approaching warrior or mesmer, engage, and all of a sudden a thief is on you bursting you down. Thats the power of coordination, kids. They bait like that.

The scariest thing I ever saw were a party of 3 thieves and 2 mesmers, all tiny black asura dressed identically. They were just TROLLING dude lol you don’t even know.

I welcome any positive changes. And in PvP, if a perma-stealth thief, and not a sword/dagger evade thief, is attacking a point, then every time they stealth, they are no longer contesting it. Typically, they also build glass and don’t have the sustain to kill a bunker by themselves. So they can’t really do anything to a ranger other than trick them off a point by stealthing and making the ranger think they disappeared. Really at that point though, all you need is some communication. “Did the thief go back to mid/home?” So, it’s an added feature, but I don’t think it will see more use for that feature alone since perma-stealth isn’t the most popular build in PvP right now.

People were using Sic’ Em on BM builds already as a variant before the pets got nerfed, so really, they would benefit. But mostly, as you said, this is going to be an improvement for WvW roaming.

It’s nice, I just wish it wasn’t the highlight. On a much more personal preference, I would have preferred to see any of the weapon changes that were getting talked about with no specifics. Weapon skills are the main portion of interactive gameplay, and probably the skills used the most. Anything that gets changed directly changes how things get used, which seems much more important than highlighting a single utility that doesn’t address any concern for large portions of the playerbase.

I’m just frustrated that that was the highlight, because for me it’s more depressing than positive.

jcbroe.4329:

STUFF

This man(?) speaks the truth.

jcbroe.4329:

I’m just frustrated that that was the highlight, because for me it’s more depressing than positive.

I think you’re forgetting that there was another change equally highlighted. One for our pets to give better party support, specifically calling out bear, moa, and fern hound, but probably including other pets as well. Better party support will only help all game modes and is a great highlight.

SynfulChaot.3169:

jcbroe.4329:

I’m just frustrated that that was the highlight, because for me it’s more depressing than positive.

I think you’re forgetting that there was another change equally highlighted. One for our pets to give better party support, specifically calling out bear, moa, and fern hound, but probably including other pets as well. Better party support will only help all game modes and is a great highlight.

How about fix the pet mechanic before trying to improve pet skills.????

I hope Sic’Em does an AoE reveal for a range of 900. That would be SO useful and make us more useful in WvW.

waka.9826:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I think you’re forgetting that there was another change equally highlighted. One for our pets to give better party support, specifically calling out bear, moa, and fern hound, but probably including other pets as well. Better party support will only help all game modes and is a great highlight.

How about fix the pet mechanic before trying to improve pet skills.????

Improving the pet mechanic is improving the AI behind the pet. And that is very, very complex. The improvement to the skills and the health increase are things were going to be seeing soon. The improving of the mechanics will be coming eventually. You, know. When they figure out how and find out how to implement it.

But holding all the potential of the pet back until they have the mechanics fixed? That’ll do nothing but push people away from the class. And then few will play it when the mechanics are fixed.

Updates aren’t all or nothing. Improvements are incremental. This is an increment. We shouldn’t be unhappy that we’re not seeing everything we want when we are seeing things that we do.

SynfulChaot.3169:

jcbroe.4329:

I’m just frustrated that that was the highlight, because for me it’s more depressing than positive.

I think you’re forgetting that there was another change equally highlighted. One for our pets to give better party support, specifically calling out bear, moa, and fern hound, but probably including other pets as well. Better party support will only help all game modes and is a great highlight.

Those mean little to me if they don’t get the F2 working on demand. I need the bear to remove those conditions when I press the button, etc etc, not 10 seconds later. So I can’t like that change until I know it will work the way it needs to in order to be useful.

If it does work like that, then that’s great, and I will definitely like the patch. Hopefully they get a few more details out there before the 15th to let us know for certain that pets got fixed.

But until then I’m just going to be hoping for, besides what I just mentioned, improvements to weapons. Increased damage? Yes please. Increased usability? I’ll take some of that.

One of these days, ANet is going to put out a patch that makes rangers the priority target in team fights. That’s the patch I’m waiting for, the one where teams go “we gotta get that ranger down now or we’ll lose this fight.”

Hmm. I guess I’m the only one that doesn’t complain when we get buffs just because they’re not the buffs I wanted then, even if I will still use them.

*shakes head sadly*

I look at every patch realistically. Realistically speaking, stealth debuffing is not a game changing improvement, and other details that were hinted at have nowhere near enough backing to be determined whether or not they are actually positive overall.

Right now, with a lack of details, this patch looks to be another aquaman patch all over again.

So, more details are needed.

jcbroe.4329:

I honestly couldn’t care less about Sic’ Em revealing stealth. I mean, yay for functionality, but it is seems like such a specific function for such a specific situation that it will barely make the skill used more.

This.

Plus your pet already tracks target as long as you F1 them before they stealth. Combined with LB2 that tracks.

I still see no reason to slot sick’em personally.

jcbroe.4329:

I look at every patch realistically. Realistically speaking, stealth debuffing is not a game changing improvement, and other details that were hinted at have nowhere near enough backing to be determined whether or not they are actually positive overall.

Stealth debuffing is a game changing improvement, even if not for your preferred game mode. It will really shake things up in WvW and make those perma-stealth thieves have to work for a change.

jcbroe.4329:

Right now, with a lack of details, this patch looks to be another aquaman patch all over again.

This is looking nothing like the aquaman patch. Nothing at all. There are some solid QoL changes here for all game modes, though admittedly more for PvE and WvW than PvP. But these are improvements, for the most part, that people want and the class needs, not improvements that noone wants or needs.

jcbroe.4329:

So, more details are needed.

Yes. More details would be nice, if only to stop the naysayers like you.

Aridia.3042:

jcbroe.4329:

I honestly couldn’t care less about Sic’ Em revealing stealth. I mean, yay for functionality, but it is seems like such a specific function for such a specific situation that it will barely make the skill used more.

This.

Plus your pet already tracks target as long as you F1 them before they stealth. Combined with LB2 that tracks.

I still see no reason to slot sick’em personally.

It’s for group play. So it forces them out of stealth so your party can see them and attack them as well.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hmm. I guess I’m the only one that doesn’t complain when we get buffs just because they’re not the buffs I wanted then, even if I will still use them.

*shakes head sadly*

lol you’re not alone man, i didn’t even want revealed on sick’em but i’m already in the process of editing my support BM build to incorporate this new amazing change!! So psyched for this patch!! My favorite wolf is getting buffed, and same with Beary Bearington and Senior Fabuloso!!

But more importantly… my warrior and guardian friends are both kittening psyched that i’m going to be able to reveal all those stupid theives that think the shadows can save them >=D!

Ya I’m pretty pumped. “Come at me bro” when I see a theif or mesmer in wvw. They’ve harassed me too long! Time to have a chance at giving them a beating without going bunker/beastmaster. Shouts are good with just 10 in BM, you know.

This seems like a good way to take a skill that nobody uses and make it more appealing. It’s a unique but non-mandatory function so it doesn’t directly obsolete any skills that we currently have but it’s still an intriguing option. I like it. Also, I think stealth is too strong in this game and needs more counters than just guessing with AoE when your opponent turns invisible, which is currently all we can do.

They should fix the bugs with Sic ’em that make it drop, though.

Sorry that I know how to take the rose tinted glasses off, and that it makes me a naysayer.

waka.9826:

too bad sic em is still not worth wasting a slot for

too bad you dont know anything about running a BM build and are not worth listening to

There will also be # changes to some of the Ranger weapons.

This is the only line Rangers should be talking about.

Because this is the line that’s going to be the one screwing us most likely in the end.

Xsorus.2507:

There will also be # changes to some of the Ranger weapons.

This is the only line Rangers should be talking about.

Because this is the line that’s going to be the one screwing us most likely in the end.

There’s nothing to say about it, though. It’s extremely vague. I don’t even know which weapons they’d want to change.