Guild Wars 2

As the title implies, I’d like you to examine yourself through this thread and think about your own play styles and general knowledge you have of GW2 professions. Perhaps the issues with this profession (the Ranger) are in part due to the issues at hand and in part due to your own skill/knowledge. Don’t get me wrong and hear me out before you rage that I dare question your skill – there are problems (bugs) that nearly cripple certain aspects of the profession and need to be / will be fixed. Nonetheless, the Ranger is still a more than viable profession in wvw, pve, and pvp (e.g. all aspects of GW2) and users (players) need to be more aware of their potentially debilitating faults before placing 100% blame on the profession.

Please note; every profession thread has a QQ about their profession sucking – you are not unique Rangers. In order to combat this, I present my general pointers of how to approach this profession, and GW2 in general.

1 – Understand your profession AND OTHERS.

This profession, just like all the others, requires an individual to understand the workings of not only the Ranger, but other profesions you encounter. If you know the timings and cooldowns of professions you come across, it becomes increasingly easier to dominate individuals (and sometimes groups) as a Ranger. GW2 has a high learning curve – roll a few alts, work on understanding other professions, and you will find that your ability to take on other professions may be more limited by your knowledge of the game as opposed to the profession itself.

Personally (350+ hours on the Ranger alone), I spent much of my time pve’ing and wvw’ing on my Ranger. Recently, I’ve spent about 3 weeks straight learning all professions inside and out in spvp. I have learned so much from this process (and still have much more to learn). In particular, I can now easily recognize when someone is que’ing up a heal, or getting ready to MOA me, or throw down their AOE, etc., which now allows me to interrupt/react accordingly. This game takes practice, patience, and understanding in order to utilize the visual ques presented. This is not like other games where you see a cast bar and a spell name underneath it – you need to recognize the visual ques and once you are acustomed this approach the game becomes dramatically easier.

2 – Try out every build!

Regarding the roles of the Ranger, you can effectively play a power or condi or bunker build. I recommend trying these builds out and basing your findings on tournament based 5v5 pvp (avoid conclusions based on zerg-style 8v8). You will find that based on the 3 specs I listed above, a Ranger can roam and point defend extremely well. No, I’m not going to hand hold you and put out 3 specs for you to review/nit pick – however, I will recommend that you use appropriate runes/sigils/amulets for your spec and focus on only 3-4 treelines at most per spec. Much of them can also be tweaked in various directions depending on your play style.

Don’t get caught up in the general masses opinions that certain builds suck or this build is the most OP. Try them yourself and make those determinations on your own. Who knows, you might have a way of playing this “terrible build” that ends up being really good for all the various situations that can arise.

3 – Practice and discuss with your friends!

This is a community based game. Sharing knowledge and strategies is the only way to improve! Ask your friend what he does in x-y-z situation. Get pointers on builds. Go into a spvp zone and 1v1 duel to truly “test your skills”. Visit other sites besides the GW2 forums (no offense moderators!). Firmly understand what each skill does (you may notice that simply reading the traits/skills text does not give you a real idea of what the skill does – you typically need to test them out and may be surprised at the results!).

To sum this up: Take the time to learn all you can about every profession and you will find your play and opinions of professions will increase and/or drastically change.

Thanks for reading this,
doc

I got 3 complete exotics sets for my Ranger.
I swap between those 3 several times on each map.
So I do with my trait-line-skills and weapons.

In the end my Warrior can do everything my Ranger can, but better.
(Dual Sword, Toughness/healing Power/Condition Damage and Healing shouts)

Having 750 condition damage my Swordthrow (4) deals 5,840-bleeding damage (900 range)- with FGJ and Signet even 6,8k!
That’s 22,29 Shortbow auto attacks for my Ranger with 1150 condition damage.
I got more armor than my Ranger.
I got higher damage (Rifle > Shortbow) with 400 less points in condition damage.
Meanwhile I buff my mates on a much lower cooldown than a Ranger-horn has.
I remove conditions from my group and myself.
And I heal everybody for 2k /Shout.

The current state of the Ranger is not problematic because people don’t know how to play him.
Rangers are problematic because their numbers are just insanely bad.

-Heal scaling

-Spirit life

-Condition weapon base damage AND scaling

-Longbow
— flight time
—Range penalty
—Attackspeed

Shortbow
-QZ bug
-recent attackspeed nerf

Sword
-Unresponsive to dodges
-Long activation time on 2

Greatsword
-Just plain bad damage compared to Warriors
-Condition and physical damage mix on a character who has to use his runes to make up for his armor

Last but not least:
A pet which dies instantly within WvW or exp.mode dungeon AoEs.
Which can’t even hit a running enemy.

I could continue this list much further.
But everything has been said a hundred times before and tbh. I’m getting sick of writing in this forum since the Devs don’t even care enough to respond.
“We know the Ranger-class is broken. We’re working on a fix.” is all I’m hoping for.*
Hell, I should be leveling my Thief this very second.

To sum this up:
Regardless how good you play your Ranger.
Even if you constantly swap gear/masteries within a single dungeon and adept to each type of enemy you face:
The pure numbers on the whole Ranger class are broken.
On top of 2 traitlines which are completely unusable due to bugs.

Your motivational speech is no help.
———————————————————————————————————————————
Even lance Armstrong on doping can’t win a bicyle race on a Puky-bike.
———————————————————————————————————————————

I would actually be decently happy if they said they will fix the QZ bug on the short bow. It does not shoot 50% quicker. If it did it would not be as frustrating as now.

Statements like “pet dies instantly” and “2 traitlines unusable” are no help.

In fact, they probably hurt the cause. New rangers will come to these forums, read your negativity and spread these exaggerated statements as gospel without any first hand experience.

I think the OP is correct. Rangers should look to increasing their skill at the game before giving up from 3rd party information.

Exaggerated Statement?
Please scroll up and enter the bug forum.
Check the nature and beast-traitline sections.

Pets don’t die instantly?
Please enter Arah explo. and fight Giganticus Lupicus.
Or enter Crucible explo. and try out the fights against “Mr. A” (you face him 3 times/run), or check out the room with infinite Golem bomb respawns.

Each of those bosses spamms AoE at a 5 second cooldown.
Well, actually several AoEs at once.
Each AoE hits for 9,8 to 12k damage.
Pets can’t use dodge and take full damage, the AoE area is so big that even if pets would actually listen to your F3 they wouldn’t get out in time anyways.

Hell, even at low level dungeons your pet constantly bites the dust.
Twilight Arbor flowers do the job quite well.

And if pets ain’t dead they are even to stupid to hit a moving target!.
I am keeping new Rangers from playing this profession?
Well, maybe I don’t want them to waste their time, I’m doing them a favor.

If you’re a new Ranger reading this, check out this video to get an impression how usefull pets are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5DiFJAtWQ&feature=plcp

You are wrong.
It’s true that there are a few ppl QQing about ranger being underpower (as all other classes).
However, most ppl get angry becoz Anet didn’t tell the truth and then give irresponsible explanation for just trying to play the typical american game —- COVER IT UP.

docMed.7692:

As the title implies, I’d like you to examine yourself through this thread and think about your own play styles and general knowledge you have of GW2 professions. Perhaps the issues with this profession (the Ranger) are in part due to the issues at hand and in part due to your own skill/knowledge. Don’t get me wrong and hear me out before you rage that I dare question your skill – there are problems (bugs) that nearly cripple certain aspects of the profession and need to be / will be fixed. Nonetheless, the Ranger is still a more than viable profession in wvw, pve, and pvp (e.g. all aspects of GW2) and users (players) need to be more aware of their potentially debilitating faults before placing 100% blame on the profession.

Please note; every profession thread has a QQ about their profession sucking – you are not unique Rangers. In order to combat this, I present my general pointers of how to approach this profession, and GW2 in general.

1 – Understand your profession AND OTHERS.

This profession, just like all the others, requires an individual to understand the workings of not only the Ranger, but other profesions you encounter. If you know the timings and cooldowns of professions you come across, it becomes increasingly easier to dominate individuals (and sometimes groups) as a Ranger. GW2 has a high learning curve – roll a few alts, work on understanding other professions, and you will find that your ability to take on other professions may be more limited by your knowledge of the game as opposed to the profession itself.

Personally (350+ hours on the Ranger alone), I spent much of my time pve’ing and wvw’ing on my Ranger. Recently, I’ve spent about 3 weeks straight learning all professions inside and out in spvp. I have learned so much from this process (and still have much more to learn). In particular, I can now easily recognize when someone is que’ing up a heal, or getting ready to MOA me, or throw down their AOE, etc., which now allows me to interrupt/react accordingly. This game takes practice, patience, and understanding in order to utilize the visual ques presented. This is not like other games where you see a cast bar and a spell name underneath it – you need to recognize the visual ques and once you are acustomed this approach the game becomes dramatically easier.

2 – Try out every build!

Regarding the roles of the Ranger, you can effectively play a power or condi or bunker build. I recommend trying these builds out and basing your findings on tournament based 5v5 pvp (avoid conclusions based on zerg-style 8v8). You will find that based on the 3 specs I listed above, a Ranger can roam and point defend extremely well. No, I’m not going to hand hold you and put out 3 specs for you to review/nit pick – however, I will recommend that you use appropriate runes/sigils/amulets for your spec and focus on only 3-4 treelines at most per spec. Much of them can also be tweaked in various directions depending on your play style.

Don’t get caught up in the general masses opinions that certain builds suck or this build is the most OP. Try them yourself and make those determinations on your own. Who knows, you might have a way of playing this “terrible build” that ends up being really good for all the various situations that can arise.

3 – Practice and discuss with your friends!

This is a community based game. Sharing knowledge and strategies is the only way to improve! Ask your friend what he does in x-y-z situation. Get pointers on builds. Go into a spvp zone and 1v1 duel to truly “test your skills”. Visit other sites besides the GW2 forums (no offense moderators!). Firmly understand what each skill does (you may notice that simply reading the traits/skills text does not give you a real idea of what the skill does – you typically need to test them out and may be surprised at the results!).

---

To sum this up: Take the time to learn all you can about every profession and you will find your play and opinions of professions will increase and/or drastically change.

Thanks for reading this,
doc

CRrabbit.1284:

You are wrong.
It’s true that there are a few ppl QQing about ranger being underpower (as all other classes).
However, most ppl get angry becoz Anet didn’t tell the truth and then give irresponsible explanation for just trying to play the typical american game —- COVER IT UP.

You know, believe it or not, I am actually trying to foster a real conversation and encourage player development here. “You are wrong” doesn’t really help explain anything.

racta.4250:

Statements like “pet dies instantly” and “2 traitlines unusable” are no help.

In fact, they probably hurt the cause. New rangers will come to these forums, read your negativity and spread these exaggerated statements as gospel without any first hand experience.

I think the OP is correct. Rangers should look to increasing their skill at the game before giving up from 3rd party information.

Agreed, whole purpose of this post is to encourage growth and development amongst players.

Sdric.8526:

Exaggerated Statement?
Please scroll up and enter the bug forum.
Check the nature and beast-traitline sections.

You’re missing the entire point of this post. I’ve acknowledged multiple times, not only in this post, the existing bugs and have implored requests for their subsequent fix.

Sdric.8526:

I got 3 complete exotics sets for my Ranger.
I swap between those 3 several times on each map.
So I do with my trait-line-skills and weapons.

In the end my Warrior can do everything my Ranger can, but better.
(Dual Sword, Toughness/healing Power/Condition Damage and Healing shouts)

Having 750 condition damage my Swordthrow (4) deals 5,840-bleeding damage (900 range)- with FGJ and Signet even 6,8k!
That’s 22,29 Shortbow auto attacks for my Ranger with 1150 condition damage.
I got more armor than my Ranger.
I got higher damage (Rifle > Shortbow) with 400 less points in condition damage.
Meanwhile I buff my mates on a much lower cooldown than a Ranger-horn has.
I remove conditions from my group and myself.
And I heal everybody for 2k /Shout.

The current state of the Ranger is not problematic because people don’t know how to play him.
Rangers are problematic because their numbers are just insanely bad.

-Heal scaling

-Spirit life

-Condition weapon base damage AND scaling

-Longbow
— flight time
—Range penalty
—Attackspeed

Shortbow
-QZ bug
-recent attackspeed nerf

Sword
-Unresponsive to dodges
-Long activation time on 2

Greatsword
-Just plain bad damage compared to Warriors
-Condition and physical damage mix on a character who has to use his runes to make up for his armor

Last but not least:
A pet which dies instantly within WvW or exp.mode dungeon AoEs.
Which can’t even hit a running enemy.

I could continue this list much further.
But everything has been said a hundred times before and tbh. I’m getting sick of writing in this forum since the Devs don’t even care enough to respond.
“We know the Ranger-class is broken. We’re working on a fix.” is all I’m hoping for.*
Hell, I should be leveling my Thief this very second.

---

To sum this up:
Regardless how good you play your Ranger.
Even if you constantly swap gear/masteries within a single dungeon and adept to each type of enemy you face:
The pure numbers on the whole Ranger class are broken.
On top of 2 traitlines which are completely unusable due to bugs.

Your motivational speech is no help.
———————————————————————————————————————————
Even lance Armstrong on doping can’t win a bicyle race on a Puky-bike.
———————————————————————————————————————————

If you don’t want to play a ranger, don’t – go away. Your anti-motiviational speech is no help.

I’m not going to sit here and argue profession vs profession (although there are numerous holes in your argument & I find killing warriors quite easy with my build).

I agree, because I have alot of sucecss with my ranger, even though I am not a great player. But I take time to adapt to the current ranger I am given and do my best with it. I will say, I’ve played warriors and thieves. I like my ranger more.

It’s NOT about the numbers. Why are warriors, thieves, and other classes getting downed in many swarm events, or dungeons and on ward? Why do my warrior, thief and other class friends say they’ve seen crazy good rangers in PvP? Contrary to beliefs, at least from what i’ve seen, there are people who appreciate and want rangers in dungeons and other situations. Some jokingly say they want our pets as meat shields (even though we say they are completely useless) Why do they compliment my ranger that I have a lot of damage and help out alot, despite their “better” class?

I’m playing ranger melee a lot recently, our skills have a lot of evasion, mobility and onward that proves to be very effective and defensive. I don’t have this with warriors. I pull out my swords and all of a sudden i’m an open target, all i can do is try to make sure i can tank all the hits. Rangers have skills that are defensive,and alot of weapon skills that are defensive. Our dps may be not be the same. but I have enough… I have 14k damage in about 4 seconds, 1.2-1.5k with almost every hit, almost regardless of weapon. Minus pet damage. That’s less and slower than other classes… but it’s enough for most situations. The tougher the situation the more necessary i need to play my cards right and put alot of effort in. I prefer my evasion and mobiity much more.

In many cases, my ranger play has been game changing. In PvE with champs and in dungeons, I can survive the longest while other classes have been downed, allowing them time to revive themselves. I’m not particularly skillful, but i noticed in some champs and dungeon cases, other players will dodge and so forth but are still playing it like a third person view mmo and get downed… on the other hand, i notice i survive the longest, and become the last one standing when i see that it is such a tough situation i pretend i’m playing an fps. I will duck behind all the cover i can find which makes long range skills and attacks obstructed. So i cant fire but they also cant get me. I duck around and always catch my heals. That isn’t skill, its more the way of thinking.

Other times, while there are classes tanking melee range, i am in the back kiting and hitting steady damage, while the others are going down here and there, and having to stop attacking. People are surprised that I steal aggro from time to time when i put out my burst dps… and I’m able to pop some immobilize skills like entangle, and other players appreciate it! saying it was a good call and good skill. Because it prevented THEM from being downed and allowed us to bring down the boss. Those are just some aspects of what I’ve found. How are we completely useless? PvP, and WvW face offs i’m still 50/50 with success rates and still need to work on perfecting my build and strategies.

Yes our pets aren’t the greatest. But do you really expect your pet to survive in a dungeon for long? If you were your pets’ pet, would you survive long in a dungeon in the frontlines? No. You would also go down almost instantly too if you get caught in any of the hits. If players are going down instantly and over and over again, how can you expect your computer programmed pets to remain invincible? Nevertheless, there are ways to keep your pet more usefull then just dead, and that requires alot of attention/multitasking, which is difficult yes.
…

But no, i’m not saying the ranger is great or that i am great or very skillful. Only that some people can be successful with a ranger, especially if it fits their style. I’ve seen people have amazing condition builds, amazing pet builds. Few people, but not none at all. As well, you see people who are complaining, I just recently read a post from someone he said he was 100 times better skill wise with a ranger, but felt more powerful with a different class. Obviously, the ranger class fits certain players better. I know it fits me better. It’s the way i think, the way i strategize, the way i play in combat. I prefer ranger MELEE over warrior melee…and certainly kiting around with bows is easy. I don’t care as much about the numbers as the ability to remain skillful instead of spamming buttons.

I find it ironic that people constantly say ranger is about spamming 1 on sb and after the nerf we can’t do anything. But it’s totally not. The people who love the class and are able to be somewaht effective at least, don’t spam 1. It’s ironic because i play other classes, and THAT’s when i feel like im spamming buttons. Just pump up everything for burst damage and let it execute…throw down some other attacks… it’s severely boring in my opinion. With the ranger I put alot of thinking and am constantly on my toes in order to survive and also to deal damage

Maybe I enjoy putting in the effort to reach the same or similar results as other classes. It takes a lot of work I agree and ranger has a lot of issues that need to be fixed asap.

Also the way Anet is handling things really does bug me but I make do with what i have now, and I’m doing alright. Not the best, but i’m doing fine.

I don’t share all the negative complaints saying that we are completely utterly useless and ineffective and have no damage, can’t survive, pets can’t do anything and are just spamming 1.

I also don’t really care about stats and numbers that much. Some numbers appear to be great, but it really isn’t that great in real gameplay.

I play a Ranger, and I play it exceptionally well. I’ve used many builds and weapons in my career. I’ve sPvP’d, WvW’d and dungeoned many times.

And I agree with Sdric: the numbers are not in our favor.

Its not a “l2p” issue, its a coding issue. You can kick against the pricks all you like, but the profession needs the attention of the developers, ASAP. Nice speech, but you missed the mark.

docMed.7692:

CRrabbit.1284:

You are wrong.
It’s true that there are a few ppl QQing about ranger being underpower (as all other classes).
However, most ppl get angry becoz Anet didn’t tell the truth and then give irresponsible explanation for just trying to play the typical american game —- COVER IT UP.

docMed.7692:

I’m not going to sit here and argue profession vs profession (although there are numerous holes in your argument & I find killing warriors quite easy with my build).

IRONY OW IRONY!

You know, believe it or not, I am actually trying to foster a real conversation and encourage player development here. “You are wrong” doesn’t really help explain anything.

But instead of discussing you tell ignore everything that is said but tell us to “go away”.
Sorry, but this topic is a joke.
You say you want a discussion but don’t accept people who agree with you.

You’re stating “Yey, rangers are great – it’s all up to the players”.
I respond “No, they’re not. Even if you change your gear during a dungeon and adept to your enemies maths proves you’re weaker than somebody who doesn’t have to chance his gear at all.”

If you don’t want this tread to be a complete joke learn to accept other players opinions and respond to the “message of their message” instead of attacking the player.

E/:
I also love how you tell other persons they have “holes in their argumentation” while you completely refuse to name those or respond on topic.

I’m out of here, there are some people you just can’t discuss with.

If you want to prove me wrong take your time and respond to my initial postwith more than just “You have holes in your argumentation” and "

deepwinter.9015:

I play a Ranger, and I play it exceptionally well. I’ve used many builds and weapons in my career. I’ve sPvP’d, WvW’d and dungeoned many times.

And I agree with Sdric: the numbers are not in our favor.

Its not a “l2p” issue, its a coding issue. You can kick against the pricks all you like, but the profession needs the attention of the developers, ASAP. Nice speech, but you missed the mark.

Takatsu said it well – it isn’t about raw #’s between the professions. They all play differently, and consequently have very different strong suits.

Just to give an example; Yes, bull’s charge >> shield smash >> weapon swap >> pop frenzy >> into hundred blades, is going to do a ton of damage – but they (the warrior) also have to hope their opponent doesn’t have a stun break up and also hope their opponent will remain locked while hundred blades casts in a non-moveable position. On the contrary, a Ranger can deal steady damage while evading, line of sighting, etc.

This game isn’t designed for all professions to simply line up in front of each other and say “First one to unload and kill the other, GO!”. I think you’re failing to grasp the combat system and how it is applied in spvp/wvw. Sure, I can agree in pve having higher numbers is probably a better thing, but nonetheless, you could nerf every profession 15% in damage across the board and they would still destroy PvE (e.g. PvE is easy/balanced and a moot point).

Sdric.8526:

docMed.7692:

CRrabbit.1284:

You are wrong.
It’s true that there are a few ppl QQing about ranger being underpower (as all other classes).
However, most ppl get angry becoz Anet didn’t tell the truth and then give irresponsible explanation for just trying to play the typical american game —- COVER IT UP.

You know, believe it or not, I am actually trying to foster a real conversation and encourage player development here. “You are wrong” doesn’t really help explain anything.

But instead of discussing you tell ignore everything that is said but tell us to “go away”.
Sorry, but this topic is a joke.
You say you want a discussion but don’t accept people who agree with you.

You’re stating “Yey, rangers are great – it’s all up to the players”.
I respond “No, they’re not. Even if you change your gear during a dungeon and adept to your enemies maths proves you’re weaker than somebody who doesn’t have to chance his gear at all.”

If you don’t want this tread to be a complete joke learn to accept other players opinions and respond to the “message of their message” instead of attacking the player.

Your post was 90% about warrior vs ranger – lol. Again, not going to sit here and argue this. I also missed the part where I said “Rangers are great” – This will be the second time in this thread alone I’ve noted that I acknowledge the issues (bugs) and that I’d like them fixed. Would help if you read everything first before responding.

Regarding the PvE side – this is such a moot point. Every profession is 100% viable in PvE (see my previous post).

ranger is by far the most underpowered prof in the game. no one is saying theyre useless. but in comparison to others, theyre ineffective and usually stomped by good thieves/warriors/mesmers/guardians/engies.

other than the cookiecutter condition build, the ranger is not viable in tpvp. in spvp, you can do anything and look good. in pve, you can go 0/0/0/0/0 and still do just fine. and WvW is simply dominated by other profs in just about every way (support, burst, mobility, tank, you name it).

look whether you like it or not Sdric right !Thats just how it is but by know means should it matter to someone who wont to play a ranger .I made mine up a few weeks ago in the midst of all this nerfing sense and if anything it made me want to play him more. I love the ranger playing style and pets so what if it dies thats why you have a second for back up and as soon as there break in action he heals right back up.

If you look at the neco pet line up the only pet that can tank or do damage is the FG and there you have to use your elite .All the others seem to be know more then just show and have to waist a skill for one them when you can put out real dmg with wells or your skill condition skill ain’t wroth it . Play a neco for awhile with pets and come back ranger pets then tell pets are. Trust me they kick kitten !

nerva.7940:

i dont think the OP has played the prof long enough to understand its flaws >.< ive got over 150 hours logged just on the ranger (mostly s/tpvp), and it is by far the most underpowered prof in the game.

If you read through you’d see I mentioned 350 hours + played on here. Not to mention I run this profession (amongst others) with high level tpvp teams and it does very well.

Thanks, I’m on the same page as you and also many other rangers who do well, but don’t feel like coming here because of all the negativity haha. I’ve seen a lot of good rangers in game. But most who are going pew pew pew…. Then you see the ones who are like melee-ing like bosses, or condition rangers who kite 11 risen in Orr at one time, throwing down traps and conditions and running circles around them. And I’m there going like… wth. watching the HP of mobs drain steadily.. Like when I hit i see it go down with each hit. One hit is approx 1/6 or 1/7 of hp, so i need to hit a few times. But I see a condition ranger and it drains so smoothly haha it’s a nice sight. lol. Can a single warrior kill a dozen risen in Orr by himself in one go? I’ve seen like… six or seven. Seen one decked out in nice gear attempt. Saw him go down. Then I came in and took care of them myself, switching from long range kiting to melee aoe stuff.

I’d hope that other will read my long walls of text sharing some experience. Most will probably flame and not agree, but your experience is your own experience. If you don’t share the same success, then that’s too bad. But I’m just sharing what i’ve experienced, and i’m not even a good player at all.

docMed.7692:

Sdric.8526:

Exaggerated Statement?
Please scroll up and enter the bug forum.
Check the nature and beast-traitline sections.

You’re missing the entire point of this post. I’ve acknowledged multiple times, not only in this post, the existing bugs and have implored requests for their subsequent fix.

actually, the ranger doesnt have that many bugs. nature and BM trees are useless and most of the weapons dont have a role in serious pvp. other profs do everything better, you can’t deny that.

I wrote 5 lines about my Warrior thats anything but 90%.
In order to see if a profession is in a good spot in a PvP based game you have to compare classes.
There is no other way.

I did not only mention bugs but also listed why several weapons are in a bad state, which is balancing not bug-fixing.

Ranger damage is split 70~80% Ranger 30~20% pet.
In Crucible and Arah which are full of 10k+ AoEs there is no pet on your side.
Also Rangers are the only class who can’t do a single thing against “Mr. A”’s crystals.

Yes, you can play Rangers in PvE, but you drag your team down.

^ well stated.

Well the BM trees are useless mainly due to the targetting problems pet have, etc.

In pvp I utilize axe/war horn/torch/shortbow and ocassionally long bow.

GS/sword/longbow could definitely use some work – from a raw damage perspective, these are behind, but you’re not counting in the utility and evasion these weapons also apply as well, whch is vastly superior.

Sdric.8526:

In order to see if a profession is in a good spot in a PvP based game you have to compare classes.
There is no other way.

I am really starting to doubt you actually read my post.

docMed.7692:

Well the BM trees are useless mainly due to the targetting problems pet have, etc.

In pvp I utilize axe/war horn/torch/shortbow and ocassionally long bow.

GS/sword/longbow could definitely use some work – from a raw damage perspective, these are behind, but you’re not counting in the utility and evasion these weapons also apply as well, whch is vastly superior.

i am counting that. i play a sword/dagger evasion tank in pvp. while it may be enough for survivability, rangers simply lack utility and damage. compared to what mesmers, thieves, warriors and guardians bring to the table, the ranger’s contribution is simply laughable.

nerva.7940:

docMed.7692:

Well the BM trees are useless mainly due to the targetting problems pet have, etc.

In pvp I utilize axe/war horn/torch/shortbow and ocassionally long bow.

GS/sword/longbow could definitely use some work – from a raw damage perspective, these are behind, but you’re not counting in the utility and evasion these weapons also apply as well, whch is vastly superior.

i am counting that. i play a sword/dagger evasion tank in pvp. while it may be enough for survivability, rangers simply lack utility and damage. compared to what mesmers, thieves, warriors and guardians bring to the table, the ranger’s contribution is simply laughable.

To each their own then – just have to agree to disagree.

but thats really not the point here. you can say “to each their own” in all aspects of PVE, but people play pvp to bring something to the table. to contribute. people generally dont like dragging their teams down.

nerva.7940:

but thats really not the point here. you can say “to each their own” in all aspects of PVE, but people play pvp to bring something to the table. to contribute. people generally dont like dragging their teams down.

I don’t think your understanding – I’m saying I disagree with you, find this class viable, and run it with my highly competitive tpvp teams all the time. So again, we can keep going in circles, or not – I chose not to.

i am understanding. you’re basically attempting to tell us all to L2P, without using any rational arguments whatsoever. “I do this, this works for ME, YOU should do this, ranger is viable to ME.”

as i said, you can run a condition build for tpvp all day. but others will do it better, and the ranger has no other options. other profs will also play the bunker role better. it is my opinion that your team would do better if you brought your skill to another profession.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty – you are running a sword/dagger build (basically worst/most broken weapon pair for the profession). No wonder you think the class isn’t viable. As my original post indicates, explore all builds before you come to a decision.

with that, you lose all credibility. the little you had. sword/dagger gives you 3 low CD on-demand evades, effectively rendering you invulnerable for 3-4 seconds. along with signets, it is essential for anything resembling a bunker build.

so you wanna get into the nitty-gritty, but you bring no valid arguments to the “discussion”.>.< ive been playing the prof since BWE1, btw. i know the prof is viable in a few roles. what im saying is that other profs do it way better.

docMed.7692:

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty – you are running a sword/dagger build (basically worst/most broken weapon pair for the profession). No wonder you think the class isn’t viable. As my original post indicates, explore all builds before you come to a decision.

So, what you’re saying is…

…only one to maybe two builds are viable?

…that the Ranger sword is broken?

…that condition build is better than a burst build?

…that there is only one way to play the Ranger to make it work, therefore the whole profession works?

You just nullified any reputation you had and your original post.

nerva.7940:

with that, you lose all credibility. the little you had. sword/dagger gives you 3 low CD on-demand evades, effectively rendering you invulnerable for 3-4 seconds. along with signets, it is essential for anything resembling a bunker build.

so you wanna get into the nitty-gritty, but you bring no valid arguments to the “discussion”.>.< ive been playing the prof since BWE1, btw. i know the prof is viable in a few roles. what im saying is that other profs do it way better.

lol – I’ve been playing Ranger since BWE1, and definitely know the profession as well.

Regarding the sword – I’ve acknowledged (again third time in this thread now) there are bug/fixes that need to be implemented. This sword is definitely in this category. If you read up, you’ll also see I listed the weapons I believe are useful/viable for pvp as they currently stand. Sword isn’t necessary for a bunker, but I do agree guardians do it better when it comes down to simply absorbing damage (although rangers, in bunker build, can get from point to point faster and kill opponents quicker -and thus re-bunker quicker, especially with the retal nerf for guards).

I’m sorry but If I’m a new player to Guild wars 2 I would want to know all pro’s and cons of the ranger class, and as it stands right now because of bug issues the cons out weigh the pro’s. I’m a level 80 ranger, now granted I have no real issue with my PVE, I’m fully aware that my dmg will also be far lower than warrior, I’m not here to compare the broken mechanics of the pet system to other games, I’m here to have fun at my leisure without having to stress over too many things.

However what annoys me more is the fact that people still don’t realize that the class itself is in horrible condition, regardless of how it compares to the other classes it doesn’t have any real appeal, there isn’t that something that hooks people into playing a ranger,
“Wow I get pets?!”, – Yup and after level 70 they make awesome decorations in Cursed shore".
“Oh wow a short bow and a longbow??” – Mhm, its pretty classy even though the Warrior and even thief can dish out more DPS with it :x.
“Traps are awesome!” – Yes yes they are….don’t nerf them …please…for the love of god don’t nerf them… ;_;
“Oh wow I can move pretty fast!” – Yup, just watch out or you might get sideswiped by the elementalists and Thieves speeding by.
“My pets love to protect me! They are always by my side!”— Yes they love protecting you….as well as agroing everything in the general area"
“GAH Zombies are eating my brains where are my pets?!?!” – NomNomNomNomNom.

deepwinter.9015:

docMed.7692:

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty – you are running a sword/dagger build (basically worst/most broken weapon pair for the profession). No wonder you think the class isn’t viable. As my original post indicates, explore all builds before you come to a decision.

So, what you’re saying is…

…only one to maybe two builds are viable?

…that the Ranger sword is broken?

…that condition build is better than a burst build?

…that there is only one way to play the Ranger to make it work, therefore the whole profession works?

You just nullified any reputation you had and your original post.

I broke it down to power/condi/bunker, which are the only “distinct” ways to play. There are numerous variations amongst all of those styles to facilitate a build towards. Bunker is definitely the weakest when it comes to absorbing raw damage and/or keeping opponents actually off the point. But the Ranger bunkering at back point is great because they can easily kill opponents (less neutral time) and also support other nodes/solo svan/chieftan, etc. as necessary.

You sure threw a lot of words in my mouth. I would love to see anywhere I make the statements you listed.

I have played every class in tpvp and spvp, I will say we are deff bottom 2 classes. Most tPvP teams dont take rangers. I am lucky enough to be in a guild I have been with for many years. I went from a great point defender when spirits where viable, to a harasser with SB / Axe+Warhorn . With the SB nerf no we are not useless.

I can till run Orr for event and Materials. I can still WvW and take points.

SB rangers are still spamming 1 just now with 1-3 less bleeds. Which relates to less condition damage. Quickening Zephyr is bugged for SB not reducing casting timeby 50%.

but we can improve thineselves!!

I don’t think people are having issues because they “haven’t tried all the builds” or “don’t get the class”. I’d say it’s almost the exact opposite. The majority of the negative posters here already have played the builds, and aren’t frustrated because they can’t use them, they’re upset they aren’t as good as other professions.

It’s not a matter of profession mechanics, it’s just raw numbers. Rangers have plenty of tools an options to build for spike damage, but they can’t spike as well as a Thief can. Likewise, we can build very tanky and go for a bunker build, but we’ll never bunker like a Guardian. We truly are the Jack of All Traders, Master of None. Whereas every profession has its own niche it fits in, the Ranger is just a homogenized bit of everything with a pet slapped on top.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing, though. Whereas everyone has grown frustrated with not being able to be as effective as other professions in certain roles, I’ve decided to just accept the odd state of the Ranger and work from it. At this rate, we’ll never be DPS as well as a Thief, or Tank as well as a Guardian, but we can do a little bit of both at the same time. Instead of slapping on full Berserker gear and playing a sub-par Thief, why not opt for a little more Vitality/Toughness and play a Hybrid? Our traits are very well set up for the hybrid style. I can play a heavy-condition DPS build with my Shortbow and Traps, and then swap to a Greatsword in combat and suddenly I’m shrugging off hits like nobody’s business. Or I can be rocking a BeastMaster DPS build with my Jaguar, but be able to drop Healing Spring or Spirit of Nature and heal my entire party 5 times over.

I just think the Hybrid style, although very fun and quite effective, is probably why most people are dropping the Ranger. In team settings, Hybrids just aren’t very effective. It’s more efficient to make sure everyone has a defined role, there’s the damage guy, the bunker guy, the roamer, etc. The Ranger can easily fill 2 or3 roles at the same time, but when you have 5 or 8 people, it’s not like your hard-pressed for filling every role.

We’re in a similar bind to all the original WoW hybrids. We can do lots of stuff decently, but we can’t match the “purist” professions at what they do. Going forward, it isn’t about just making the Ranger a Warrior 2.0, but letting him be the hybridized class he is while allowing him the options to be effective at a specific role if he wants to.

EDIT: Chat filter: making valid English words look like vulgarity since 2012.

my hammer guardian can do everything: spike, bunker, dps, cleanse, cc…hes kind of a hybrid. but yes, i agree with what youre saying.

@DoomBunny, That just sounds like accepting defeat; resigning to the pitiful state of the profession.

The potential is there, but the underlying code needs adjustment. Ranger class needs to be fixed!

deepwinter.9015:

@DoomBunny, That just sounds like accepting defeat; resigning to the pitiful state of the profession.

It’s not really accepting defeat, it’s just working with what we’ve got.

Right now, I play a Shortbow+Sword/Torch trap condition build for PvE and WvW (I don’t care as much for sPvP ). While I don’t nearly deal as much damage as say, a Thief can, I do things a Thief can’t while helping my team in other ways.

I can drop combo fields, heal my party, or tank a few stray mobs, all while still dealing a respectable bit of damage. Sure, the Thief can make pretty numbers appear, but I can do a bit of that too while doing bits of other stuff as well.

I’m not saying we should all just give up and write the Ranger off as a pseudo-Druid and move on, we just need to play with the cards we’ve been dealt with for now. I honestly believe A-Net is working their behinds off trying to fix the Ranger, but it’s not going to happen overnight. Rather than just re-roll until the fixes arrive, I find it more fun to just find something the Ranger is good at and just stick it out.

docMed.7692

You know, believe it or not, I am actually trying to foster a real conversation and encourage player development here.

docMed.7692

If you don’t want to play a ranger, don’t – go away

I’m having trouble reconciling these two statements…

DoomBunny.2903:

deepwinter.9015:

@DoomBunny, That just sounds like accepting defeat; resigning to the pitiful state of the profession.

It’s not really accepting defeat, it’s just working with what we’ve got.

Right now, I play a Shortbow+Sword/Torch trap condition build for PvE and WvW (I don’t care as much for sPvP ). While I don’t nearly deal as much damage as say, a Thief can, I do things a Thief can’t while helping my team in other ways.

I can drop combo fields, heal my party, or tank a few stray mobs, all while still dealing a respectable bit of damage. Sure, the Thief can make pretty numbers appear, but I can do a bit of that too while doing bits of other stuff as well.

I’m not saying we should all just give up and write the Ranger off as a pseudo-Druid and move on, we just need to play with the cards we’ve been dealt with for now. I honestly believe A-Net is working their behinds off trying to fix the Ranger, but it’s not going to happen overnight. Rather than just re-roll until the fixes arrive, I find it more fun to just find something the Ranger is good at and just stick it out.

WvW cannot really be counted persay, we still have our great escape and high mobility. Not as good as other classes but that doesnt much matter when your spamming arrows from a wall or at a door. If decent small zerg vs small zerg it is even easier to stay on the outskirts knowing when to retreat.

I do not even believe all classes should be balances I think if a Warrior catches me he should prolly kill me. What is making us sad is the lack of response and the lack of even 1 moderately strong weapon. Not counting the WH being one of the best if not the best weapon we have right now.

Really I wouldn’t bother in this thread. DocMed has trolled a lot of posts about rangers now and this is his chance to say that he is the best and everyone else just needs to ‘ltp’.

I appreciate the message of the OP but the Ranger has so many problems that even in the hands of the most skilled, the ranger problems still shine.

Just look at our utilities compared to other classes. Other than traps – we have very little to offer a group with utilities and our sigils are easily the worst in the game. 10% run speed with a measly pet damage increase? They need to look at what works for the class…and there are a few things and truly tackle the major issues like:

Pets not attacking and moving
Spirits
Longbow Damage
Utilities
Broken/Bugged traits
AoE damage/Bosses to pets

Many of our traits can be consolodated and more useful ones could be added. First strike, as the primary minor utility spots in the marksman tree just needs to go away or actually work and Nature Magic needs a complete overhaul.

But yeah, I’ll L2P through all those issues, don’t worry.

Sorry DocMed, you’re trying to place the emphasis for improving the Ranger profession onto us the players… the real emphasis on improving this profession lies squarely with the game devs / Anet.

Most of us want to see more and varied viable builds for this profession in both PvE and PvP. What we’re seeing is a decreasing number of viable builds for the Ranger. That’s the wrong direction for most of us.

I’m beginning to wonder, do you work for Anet?

This reminds me of that awful platitude that gets slavishly repeated when a business downsizes and cuts expenses.

“We’ll simply have to learn to do more with less.”

Yeah, or I could find a better job with another employer. In this case, that would be performing the same role better with another profession.

Sure, a can-do, fighting spirit attitude can allow you to perform well despite the roadblocks and handicaps. That doesn’t change the fact that if you apply that same enthusiasm and grit in a system that doesn’t have those same drawbacks, you’ll be doing even better.

nerva.7940:

docMed.7692:

Sdric.8526:

Exaggerated Statement?
Please scroll up and enter the bug forum.
Check the nature and beast-traitline sections.

You’re missing the entire point of this post. I’ve acknowledged multiple times, not only in this post, the existing bugs and have implored requests for their subsequent fix.

actually, the ranger doesnt have that many bugs. nature and BM trees are useless and most of the weapons dont have a role in serious pvp. other profs do everything better, you can’t deny that.

I’ll deny that. You obviously haven’t played much “serious PvP” if you think rangers are the worst profession for PvP. Rangers are arguably one of the best classes in W3. I have a blast in sPvP on my Ranger and never feel useless. The longbow and the shortbow are both awesome in PvP. The axe, torch, and warhorn are also amazing for mid to close range fights in PvP.

The greatsword, sword, and dagger can all use some work. Spear is pretty nice, harpoon gun stinks.

Second, you’re insane if you think the Beastmastery tree is useless. It is easily the best tree for the majority of PvE content. Nature Magic isn’t a great tree, I will agree with that. There are some nice traits in there, but until spirits get a little love, the tree is kind of lackluster.

Finally, there are quite a few Ranger bugs. You only need to look here to see that you’re incorrect about the bugs.

Right on nic, I’ve been thinking the same thing.

I think there are about 3 account names that I find consistently on here coming out in support of rangers creating threads like this and diverting conversations away from the realistic negatives.

Arenanet plants anyone?