Guild Wars 2

So, currently it is “while your health is below 50%, you gain 8s of Might every second”, while that seems powerful, you need to stay below 50% health for 8s to get the full benefit, something you should not have to do for a GM to be effective. I have said it before, requiring staying below 50% health to get a benefit is counter intuitive.

Edit: Made tooltips for suggestions. The 1st one is my least favourite of them, but probably the easiest to implement and would make the trait at least functioning and synergise with other traits. The third would be my favourite because of the immense synergy with Remorseless.

I like the first idea. While it would be cool to bring back Master’s Bond, it wouldn’t be the same since they are instantly getting the stacks and losing them if you go over 50% health. It’s basically just using the name but completely changing the trait.

I just wish they would fold Master’s Bond into one of the other Beastmastery traits and remove the on-swap penalty.

Yeah, I suggested years ago that it should be like a stacking sigil and stay on the ranger since he is the “Master” and only end if the Ranger is downed.

This new idea is still good imo, it just only happens under 50% health, so your pet gets stronger to save its master

I’m tossing in again, “+50% critical hit chance when underneath 50% health.” Makes a Ranger extremely dangerous, options to drop precision for toughness for gear, and creates a “Kill me or be killed by me” situation that can change the pace and dynamics of a fight.

I think that it may be a little op.. With some investement on might duration, an axe mainhand and some other skills too you will have no problem reach 25 might stacks after a few secs under 50% life..
They will nerf it, enjoy while you can

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-JF-83;0sEFt-a2VDV-0;9V8;2Zab;0138157257;4SoH6V;1ZF18ZF180U

Here you go..
Perma regen, might stacking, cond removal, perma swiftness, stun break, reveal..
What else bro?

Wondrouswall.7169:

I’m tossing in again, “+50% critical hit chance when underneath 50% health.” Makes a Ranger extremely dangerous, options to drop precision for toughness for gear, and creates a “Kill me or be killed by me” situation that can change the pace and dynamics of a fight.

I really like this idea mate. Other classes have similar mechanics. Added to OP.

Dardamaniac.1295:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-JF-83;0sEFt-a2VDV-0;9V8;2Zab;0138157257;4SoH6V;1ZF18ZF180U

Here you go..
Perma regen, might stacking, cond removal, perma swiftness, stun break, reveal..
What else bro?

Link not working.

The problem with MDG is that you need to stay under 50% health, which is a dangerous game to play. With the nature of burst damage, you cannot reliably do it so the risk far outweighs the reward because you need to stay under 50% for at least 8s to get the full benefit. Plus, its only 8 might. Wars and Ele can stack tons more without being below 50%. It is weak right now by comparison. It is a cool idea, but execution is not.

Now you got me thinking. Did Anet intend “Most Dangerous Game” to be taken as a dangerous game we are playing by staying below 50% health, or being a dangerous “game” like an animal being hunted?

I’ll take here my idea from my other thread, tweak it a bit and say:

“While at or under 50% hp, you gain 1 stack of might for 8 sec. every second and 3 seconds of fury every 2 seconds.”

Just for the synergy with Remorseless you know.

First, I agree with the sentiment. I immediately looked at this trait, competing with QuickDraw (or really ANYTHING competing for best in slot with quickdraw, but especially this) and went “nope, never.”

Second, this should be our own “executioner” style trait where we get an hp% huge damage bonus (20% damage boost), but give it the twist of being based off our hp pool instead of what we are hitting (like a cornered animal fighting its way out to survive I guess lol).

Regardless, it’d have to be something pretty significant to compete with Quickdraw.

jcbroe.4329:

like a cornered animal fighting its way out to survive I guess lol.

Yup, exactly mate. It’s not going to wait around, its just going to explode on you to kill or be killed, fight or flight.

Wait… Fight or Flight…

MDG; “You move 25% faster. While under 50% health, you have +50% critical chance” Delicious.

Or give 8 stack of might for 1s while under 50%. No ramp up. Useless to boonstrip.

I don’t like any of the “below 50% health” traits that have suddenly spawned. Bark Skin used to make sense, it did something with the fact that your health is below 50%, namely, to prevent it from getting any lower. These new traits giving quickness and might and stuff seem completely unrelated to the fact that you’re below 50% health.

If Protective Ward triggered below 50% health I would understand it for example. It would be a whole lot worse, but at least it would make more sense than these other ones.

I’m going to try and avoid these 50% traits, although I suppose these traits would work well together:
Enlargement (8s stability, +25% dmg, +50% movement speed below 50% hp)
Most Dangerous Game (8s might below 50% hp)
Instinctive Reaction (3s quickness below 50% hp)
Rejuvenation (6s regeneration below 50% hp)
(Marksmanship + Skirmishing + Nature Magic)

Worth a try, but it will probably go to waste 50% of the time. You’ll want permanent buffs, not buffs that only happen when you’re half dead.

Seriously, Enlargement blows Most Dangerous Game out of the water. An Adept trait is superior to a Grandmaster trait. And noone is even going to pick Enlargement, since most will prefer Clarion Bond for its reliabiliy.

By the way, Enlargement will also give 3 stacks of might for 15s if traited.

Anet probably thinks of picking both Enlargement and MDG.
… Sadly, You’ll hit like a cornered animal with Quick Draw for higher numbers, more often and without risking anything.

They really need to reconsider their Grandmaster Trait that is not even close to as powerful as Empowerment (Guardian Staff 12 AoE might skill that heals).

I’m still thinking why this trait has no synergy with anything at all. Nothing. Except for sharing boons to the pet that I feel like being baseline but that’s another topic.

Heck, I can even imagine it being like this:
“When you fall to or below 50% hp, you gain 5 might for 5 seconds, clear 2 conditions and gain 150 toughness. This effect has a 5 second cooldown.”
Would you consider this over Quick Draw? I know I would.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I’ll take here my idea from my other thread, tweak it a bit and say:

“While at or under 50% hp, you gain 1 stack of might for 8 sec. every second and 3 seconds of fury every 2 seconds.”

Just for the synergy with Remorseless you know.

i’d consider this over quickdraw, even if it where only 1 application of fury for 3s.

the might stacks could be front loaded more, like 4 stacks once you’re at or under 50% + 1 stack per second for 8 seconds + 3 sec of fury.

It seems kind of OP but considering we’re almost dead how bad could it be?

While at it, when reaching 50% cast meteor storm and signet of the wild on self and go downed state. While downed gain 1000 power and 1000 precision.

Thats a more “most dangerous game” we have here… ah and sadly they removed the healing spring on death/downed state. Add in the poison nova on death from rune and we could see a suicide squad zerg.

Well enough troll xD

when the ranger is below 50% health, your opponents must start sweating. they have to get a little bit uncomfortable. also, MDG must be good enough to compete with Quickdraw, don’t forget that.

my suggestion is to have MDG give the ranger 3 might per second for X seconds, maybe 4 or 5. if that’s OP, maybe 2 stacks per second for 5 seconds, because we also have other might options. staying below 50% HP is very risky and should be rewarding. this change would make MDG GM-worthy.

i also don’t mind your suggestions Heim. the consensus is current MDG is entirely useless, and the buffed version must compete with Quickdraw.

Most Dangerous Game
Deal 10% more damage for every 10% health below max health.
Take 10% more damage for every 10% health below max health.

Now we’re talking.

Holland.9351:

Most Dangerous Game
Deal 10% more damage for every 10% health below max health.
Take 10% more damage for every 10% health below max health.

Now we’re talking.

10% if using ranged and 5% if melee!

Hey guys with might duration is not only 8 stacks of might. I wont do the maths but its more. And we get 20% boon duration increase from a trait. Combined with other sources of might, runes, sigils, signets it will be very interesting to see how much the stacks will grow. Lets try it first. I may be wrong but i like it so far..

Sure but the down side of it is the 50% threshold…

who’s gonna stay under 50% HP for longer than 3-4 seconds? you’ll either leave the fight, get healed, or die.

mistsim.2748:

who’s gonna stay under 50% HP for longer than 3-4 seconds? you’ll either leave the fight, get healed, or die.

This has a crazy situational use in WvW roaming. Often when you fight 1vX you’re under 50% for extended periods of time. I was roaming on my mesmer today where I was 1v2 AND a full camp of gaurds (and two annoying warthogs) where I was under 50% health for probably 3-4 minutes straight. It could pair with the shout-heal trait.

That said, this is probably not worth taking. It might be if you’re often in roaming situations like this, but you need to really be living on the edge. I’m going to try it at least, but… meh.

MDG isn’t made for Glass type builds of any kind , if you can’t maintain 50% hp through evades, taunt, blinds, protective warden ect and are not using Cav,Valk or dire and or not the right amount of Hp to trigger it easy but not lowering your hp to a live threatening point , in Low Hp builds proberly won’t be worth your time trying to build for this trait.

where as those Cav/valk medium hp type builds are perfectly suited for MDG S+D/Gs or LB/ S+D ambidextrous will be able to maintain that 50% hp for a while , though it can be done in a glassy build though you’d have to build for more evades , more Blinds/taunts ect to make it work though then your trading too much off to get it to work , then you’d be better off using quickdraw.

its not a bad trait just fits a different foot.

Dardamaniac.1295:

I think that it may be a little op.. With some investement on might duration, an axe mainhand and some other skills too you will have no problem reach 25 might stacks after a few secs under 50% life..
They will nerf it, enjoy while you can

Well Necro has a similar trait when using DS though. The requirement is actually easier than getting through the trouble of staying at 50% hp and below.

Also do note that there’re 3 classes (or 4) have that damage modifier of +20% damage when hitting a target below 50% hp. Thief’s panic strike also will consistently cause immobilize on you when you try to stay at 50% hp and below. Overall it’s a huge risk to stay under 50% hp in general. Rewarding with a little extra spike damage may be the way to go since it’s really hard to stay under 50% hp and not die.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

…

its not a bad trait just fits a different foot.

The whole problem is that it doesn’t even compare to Quick Draw. That trait is much better even at 50% HP, but gives full benefit even at full HP.

Power builds, evade builds, utility longbow builds, CC builds, condition bombing builds… That everything falls into category of Quick Draw with immense use and potential.

How can 3 blasts even compete with this? The trait has its uses… But no one’s ever going to sacrifice Quick Draw for it. That’s a bread and butter decision.

Exactly TP.

Look at how many traits/skills there are that trigger when a foe drops below 50%;
Executioner, Furious Retaliation, Chill of Death, Close to Death, Bolt to the Heart, Target the Weak, Last Chance, Exploit Weakness, Predators Instinct, Deathly Chill & Gravedigger, Final Thrust, Arcing Slice. I’m sure there are more that I can’t remember.

For MDG to be benficial, it has to take into account that you are keeping yourself vulnerable to these traits and skills, in effect shooting yourself in the foot, so that you can get maybe an additional 8 might? Terrible. Even with very high sustain, you are going to be taking so much more damage its not funny.

Simply not worth it imo.

The pulsing fury is a good idea mate, I like that one. Synergy.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

…

its not a bad trait just fits a different foot.

The whole problem is that it doesn’t even compare to Quick Draw. That trait is much better even at 50% HP, but gives full benefit even at full HP.

Power builds, evade builds, utility longbow builds, CC builds, condition bombing builds… That everything falls into category of Quick Draw with immense use and potential.

How can 3 blasts even compete with this? The trait has its uses… But no one’s ever going to sacrifice Quick Draw for it. That’s a bread and butter decision.

isnt that what i just said fits a different foot, its a choice but not mandatory just like Quick draw only improves Flexability which allows you access to different combos ect.

the extra incomming damage from traits is why its called MDG , if all MDG did was 50%< gain might , it wouldnt feel dangerous and since that is shared with pet and the ranger it scales up with expertise training and other things the pet also does taking your pet from 300 condi damage to 1000 condi damage with in 8secs while being effected by FB, both sources of bleeds are then vastly more powerful for those 8secs.

not sure how much of a Dps it’ll give the ranger as a class overall while under 50% but i think the trade off is worth it when you consider it in a Beastmaster / condi bunker sense.

its not a problem to take some extra damage if your build for toughness or high Vit levels , which you seem to be worring about , its not a trait for Glass builds which means its flexible for those other play styles other than Power specs which Benift more from quickdraw , its perfectly Equal .

Juggernaut (Engineer Grandmaster trait)
5 stacks of Might permanently (after 15 seconds)
1 stack of Stability permanently (after 3 seconds)

Most Dangerous Game (Ranger Grandmaster trait)
8 stacks of Might (after 8 seconds below 50% health)

Why was Most Dangerous Game moved from Adept to Grandmaster again?

Knee jerk reaction from Peters most likely.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

…

its not a bad trait just fits a different foot.

The whole problem is that it doesn’t even compare to Quick Draw. That trait is much better even at 50% HP, but gives full benefit even at full HP.

Power builds, evade builds, utility longbow builds, CC builds, condition bombing builds… That everything falls into category of Quick Draw with immense use and potential.

How can 3 blasts even compete with this? The trait has its uses… But no one’s ever going to sacrifice Quick Draw for it. That’s a bread and butter decision.

isnt that what i just said fits a different foot, its a choice but not mandatory just like Quick draw only improves Flexability which allows you access to different combos ect.

the extra incomming damage from traits is why its called MDG , if all MDG did was 50%< gain might , it wouldnt feel dangerous and since that is shared with pet and the ranger it scales up with expertise training and other things the pet also does taking your pet from 300 condi damage to 1000 condi damage with in 8secs while being effected by FB, both sources of bleeds are then vastly more powerful for those 8secs.

not sure how much of a Dps it’ll give the ranger as a class overall while under 50% but i think the trade off is worth it when you consider it in a Beastmaster / condi bunker sense.

its not a problem to take some extra damage if your build for toughness or high Vit levels , which you seem to be worring about , its not a trait for Glass builds which means its flexible for those other play styles other than Power specs which Benift more from quickdraw , its perfectly Equal .

We as a class are not a point holder class. We are bunkers (good at defending a point by skirmishing, not by holding it contested via sustain and immortality – that’s a clear Guardian pattern) which means winning duels.
We might become point holders that sustain with Quick Draw – which again lures me into conclusion that 4 leaps instead of 2 (greatsword Swoop) will be the answer for tanky builds as well. Moreover – if you focus on tank stats – your job is to soak up damage and not to deal it. Which means that more evades = more damage mitigation = Quick Draw for tanky builds.

For balanced (celestial), dire, Cleric, Carrion etc. where you’d like to win by dueling – you might want that extra damage. At all times, not only below 50%. And even below 50% you can get more sustain through Blast/Leap (which is helpful), evades = sustain, CC, or damage depending on the situation.
Even if outnumbered you could easily escape by swoop > block > swoop, or swap the weapon, double rapid fire the target into his face and laugh the 8 stacks of might off.

Most Dangerous Game doesn’t make sense. In WvW there’s no place for MDG. Quick Draw all the way. In PvE? The same. PvP? Your job is to stay alive and hold points – dealing damage while being at it. Quick Draw all the way.

Yes, even Beast Mastery would like quick draw over MDG.

Most dangerous game: do a blast finisher (no dmg) on your position each sec when reaching 50%. LEL

Holland.9351:

Juggernaut (Engineer Grandmaster trait)
5 stacks of Might permanently (after 15 seconds)
1 stack of Stability permanently (after 3 seconds)

Most Dangerous Game (Ranger Grandmaster trait)
8 stacks of Might (after 8 seconds below 50% health)

Why was Most Dangerous Game moved from Adept to Grandmaster again?

juggernaut is only when having the flamethrower equipped which is crap. it was confirmed that there was no change in that somewhere in the engi forums. the trait describtion is just wrong

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

…

its not a bad trait just fits a different foot.

The whole problem is that it doesn’t even compare to Quick Draw. That trait is much better even at 50% HP, but gives full benefit even at full HP.

Power builds, evade builds, utility longbow builds, CC builds, condition bombing builds… That everything falls into category of Quick Draw with immense use and potential.

How can 3 blasts even compete with this? The trait has its uses… But no one’s ever going to sacrifice Quick Draw for it. That’s a bread and butter decision.

isnt that what i just said fits a different foot, its a choice but not mandatory just like Quick draw only improves Flexability which allows you access to different combos ect.

the extra incomming damage from traits is why its called MDG , if all MDG did was 50%< gain might , it wouldnt feel dangerous and since that is shared with pet and the ranger it scales up with expertise training and other things the pet also does taking your pet from 300 condi damage to 1000 condi damage with in 8secs while being effected by FB, both sources of bleeds are then vastly more powerful for those 8secs.

not sure how much of a Dps it’ll give the ranger as a class overall while under 50% but i think the trade off is worth it when you consider it in a Beastmaster / condi bunker sense.

its not a problem to take some extra damage if your build for toughness or high Vit levels , which you seem to be worring about , its not a trait for Glass builds which means its flexible for those other play styles other than Power specs which Benift more from quickdraw , its perfectly Equal .

We as a class are not a point holder class. We are bunkers (good at defending a point by skirmishing, not by holding it contested via sustain and immortality – that’s a clear Guardian pattern) which means winning duels.
We might become point holders that sustain with Quick Draw – which again lures me into conclusion that 4 leaps instead of 2 (greatsword Swoop) will be the answer for tanky builds as well. Moreover – if you focus on tank stats – your job is to soak up damage and not to deal it. Which means that more evades = more damage mitigation = Quick Draw for tanky builds.

For balanced (celestial), dire, Cleric, Carrion etc. where you’d like to win by dueling – you might want that extra damage. At all times, not only below 50%. And even below 50% you can get more sustain through Blast/Leap (which is helpful), evades = sustain, CC, or damage depending on the situation.
Even if outnumbered you could easily escape by swoop > block > swoop, or swap the weapon, double rapid fire the target into his face and laugh the 8 stacks of might off.

Most Dangerous Game doesn’t make sense. In WvW there’s no place for MDG. Quick Draw all the way. In PvE? The same. PvP? Your job is to stay alive and hold points – dealing damage while being at it. Quick Draw all the way.

Yes, even Beast Mastery would like quick draw over MDG.

you described flexibility in all of that text , quick draw makes you Flexiable..opens up all the combination you mentioned, its build Defining not mandatory, you can easly play to the same damage and level without it.

its a choice people make , the traits don’t choose for us, you want faster combos good go choose Quickdraw because that is what Defines your build/ play style.
Anet don’t make traits just for Damage you know..that old system is gone.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

Holland.9351:

Juggernaut (Engineer Grandmaster trait)
5 stacks of Might permanently (after 15 seconds)
1 stack of Stability permanently (after 3 seconds)

Most Dangerous Game (Ranger Grandmaster trait)
8 stacks of Might (after 8 seconds below 50% health)

Why was Most Dangerous Game moved from Adept to Grandmaster again?

juggernaut is only when having the flamethrower equipped which is crap. it was confirmed that there was no change in that somewhere in the engi forums. the trait describtion is just wrong

Thanks. That makes sense. Every build should run it otherwise.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

you described flexibility in all of that text , quick draw makes you Flexiable..opens up all the combination you mentioned, its build Defining not mandatory, you can easly play to the same damage and level without it.

its a choice people make , the traits don’t choose for us, you want faster combos good go choose Quickdraw because that is what Defines your build/ play style.
Anet don’t make traits just for Damage you know..that old system is gone.

The damage it provides is far higher in PvP than it was in PvE. And in PvE it’s already 10%. The condition bombs, or Power Spikes are a huge deal.

Quick Draw provides the most valuable form of damage – burst. And if you feel like it – you can sacrifice it for better anything I already said.

The thing stays the same. A trait that tells you “Yep, you are about to die, so have an extra 2% damage every second that stops at 16%” is not even close to being considerable with Quick Draw on the table. Especially when the 1st thing that comes into your mind when below 50% is to get back up.

Look at Enlargement. If you get below 50% your damage goes up 25%, you gain 50% speed to help you get the hell out of there and so goes your 5 stability.
You don’t even need to spend an extra second below 50% to gain better benefits than a Grandmaster trait.

It’s not about “player choice”. This is about numbers, maths, potential and value. And MDG doesn’t have any of that.

No one take the trait for a year or so after HoT comes out. Anet will buff it.

I like the first one and the last one. I’m still going to really test what I can do with MDG when it comes out but if it doesn’t work, I really like these two ideas.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

“While below 50% health, you gain 8 Might for 1s, every second.”
This way you get the full benefit while under 50% health and not after 8s of being under 50% health. Pet gains no benefit unless you have FB traited, then it is magic.

or

Wondrouswall.7169:

I’m tossing in again, “+50% critical hit chance when underneath 50% health.” Makes a Ranger extremely dangerous, options to drop precision for toughness for gear, and creates a “Kill me or be killed by me” situation that can change the pace and dynamics of a fight.

Edit: Added Wondrouswall’s idea because it is really good and easy to implement without ability to abuse it like boons.

Let’s throw some ideas around, its not too late

Had another idea for MDG.

Forget the 50% condition, it is too hard to balance around, because it is so unreliable for us to trigger and counter-intuitive to stay in that condition.

MDG; Whenever you gain Might, your pet gains it too. Whenever you swap weapons, you gain 5 might for 7s. Might you apply has a 20% longer duration.

What about that one? Synergy with the other swap traits, our signets, “RaO” and ability to stack might on the pet without FB.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Had another idea for MDG.

Forget the 50% condition, it is too hard to balance around, because it is so unreliable for us to trigger and counter-intuitive to stay in that condition.

MDG; Whenever you gain Might, your pet gains it too. Whenever you swap weapons, you gain 5 might for 7s. Might you apply has a 20% longer duration.

What about that one? Synergy with the other swap traits, our signets, “RaO” and ability to stack might on the pet without FB.

Nothing resembles the MDG.
But the concept sounds like one I can imagine I’d use.

Yeah, the more I think about MDG, the less I like the below 50% health part. It makes the trait very restrictive and unattractive.

Since Quick Draw deals with ‘on-swap’ effects, I thought MDG could too and have other effects. Being able to stack Might on our pet without taking FB would be a massive thing imo.

Simplest way to make it interesting would just be to make it something like “Damage you deal and take is 50% more while under 50% health”. High risk/high reward

roamzero.9486:

Simplest way to make it interesting would just be to make it something like “Damage you deal and take is 50% more while under 50% health”. High risk/high reward

That would be amazing. We already have access to Quickness and Enlargement. This kind of Kill or be Killed would be definitely interesting.

Not worth the Grandmaster, but numbers could get a tweak or two. Like receiving 25% bonus damage but dealing 50% more (conditions included). Something like that.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Had another idea for MDG.

Forget the 50% condition, it is too hard to balance around, because it is so unreliable for us to trigger and counter-intuitive to stay in that condition.

MDG; Whenever you gain Might, your pet gains it too. Whenever you swap weapons, you gain 5 might for 7s. Might you apply has a 20% longer duration.

What about that one? Synergy with the other swap traits, our signets, “RaO” and ability to stack might on the pet without FB.

Not a bad idea, great synergy with main hand axe too

Looking around at all the other Might stacking traits…Take a look at Siphoned Power on the Necro, for example. It is a GM minor trait in Spite.

It used to be gain 1 might for 5s when struck while under 25% health with no ICD. Now it is gain two stacks of Might for 10s when striking a foe under 50% health.

This would be a far better trait than MDG imo. They have obviously changed it due to it being terrible, only triggering under 25% health is absurd. To me, 50% is not much better. A bad mechanic imo and hard to balance around. I think the trait needs to be totally re-designed at this point.

/bump

Gonna keep bumping this thread so ANet can see we think this trait is rubbish and needs to be changed. Not only does it not compete with QD, it is terrible in it’s own right.

Please add your thoughts.

Bran.7425:

Knee jerk reaction from Peters most likely.

Best explanation ever! you sir deserve an award!
Same thing happened to mesmers.

It won’t see any serious use unless it’s changed, and I even doubt Anet tested it properly.
Horrible, rubbish, barely worth an adept slot.

I don’t spvp much but word on the street is burst has become just unreasonable after the patch. Has anyone even had the chance to take full advantage of this trait yet? I mean, floating around 7-10k health for 8seconds or more in a fight sounds like suicide right now.