Guild Wars 2

I got tired of seeing people who seemed to want to just complain giving out information comparing the old conditions with the new conditions …

… so, as usual, I did the math.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RvE0DymDqVcuirY7xJynq0AggpQTso8yV71j5BMjofE/edit?usp=sharing

Key things to note:

Bleeding

• New Bleeding does less damage with less than 660 condition damage
• New Bleeding does more damage with more than 660 condition damage

Burning

• 1 Stack of New Burning will never do as much damage as Old Burning used to do regardless of condition damage
• 2 Stacks of Burning does less damage with less than 1082 condition damage
• 2 Stacks of Burning does more damage with more than 1082 condition damage
• 3+ Stacks of Burning will always do more damage than Old Burning regardless of condition damage

Poison

• 1 Stack of New Poison will never do as much damage as Old Poison used to do regardless of condition damage
• 2 Stacks of Poison does less damage with less than 850 condition damage
• 2 Stacks of Poison does more damage with more than 850 condition damage
• 3+ Stacks of Poison will always do more damage than Old Poison

Torment

• New Torment does less damage with less than 707 condition damage
• New Torment does more damage with more than 707 condition damage

I don’t have any notes for confusion due to the fact that it’s damage largely depends on how many times per second the target uses a skill in order to take that “trigger damage”, but it looks largely improved for PvP given that there is a smaller difference in “trigger damage” since that was already lower in PvP than before. Do please note that this assumes that both PvE and PvP will now have the same equation for Confusion damage.

With a bit of might stacking, which we will get to a degree, celestial ranger might still be a pretty good thing in PvP. Might be a decent buff.

Fluffball.8307:

With a bit of might stacking, which we will get to a degree, celestial ranger might still be a pretty good thing in PvP. Might be a decent buff.

I have my doubts on that. I think conditions will become very powerful and more people will start running it.

And with our condi removal hindered by facts which we all have been repeating for centuries (hello grandmaster traits) – we might not be competitive at all.
We might deal the damage but we will receive as much.

Wow so actually the sweet spot for hybrid ranger would be ~850 as you usually proc poison and bleeds only. And you can stack ALOT of them (25 bleeds stack) and X amount of poison.

Klonko.8341:

Wow so actually the sweet spot for hybrid ranger would be ~850 as you usually proc poison and bleeds only. And you can stack ALOT of them (25 bleeds stack) and X amount of poison.

thats what i use to use in my Valk/cav hybrid with Carrion and Exuberance runes. every tempted to go back to it and use some Sinister or cele trinkets to replace the lost power stat.

i’d gladly loose some toughness now knowing full well with bark skin and that regen from timber will keep me going if i use less Cav gear.

and the 10% crit from flanking in the skirmishing line 0,6,6,0,6 i’ll be gaining 10% crit hits and that means more bleeds or other options to trade precision for condi damage thats 210 stat points = 10% crit hits i;d gladly trade.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I have my doubts on that. I think conditions will become very powerful and more people will start running it.

I just don’t see people getting past the condi-clear meta. Doesn’t matter if you can put 1500 stacks of confusion on someone, it just won’t stick. Unless things go back to small skirmishes instead of team fights.

I do agree more people will run condis; I think everyone will run them at first. But then once people realize warriors and eles (and now engis) exist, that will fade away.

Fluffball.8307:

Tragic Positive.9356:

I have my doubts on that. I think conditions will become very powerful and more people will start running it.

I just don’t see people getting past the condi-clear meta. Doesn’t matter if you can put 1500 stacks of confusion on someone, it just won’t stick. Unless things go back to small skirmishes instead of team fights.

I do agree more people will run condis; I think everyone will run them at first. But then once people realize warriors and eles (and now engis) exist, that will fade away.

Yep, that are my thoughts exactly.

But I still think that reapplying mechanics like spirits and traps might work just fine. I mean, they wouldn’t have last for long and if it’s cleansed it will just reapply itself.

And don’t forget that with beast mastery we are getting a high variety of condition protection via weakness blinds etc. Conditions will be a tough style but might have it’s place. Especially with the new stacking and Rangers being in possession of the highest poison access.

The name of the game for condition is “continuous re-application”.

The new specializations look like they are going to give this to us … on top of giving us options for even higher damage coefficients for Bleeding/Poison than other classes have.

We’ll have to see how that shakes up the meta. New builds could become viable which could end up dethroning some of the current ones that are impeding Condition builds from being a strong part of the meta.

Tragic is quite right about our access to Weakness, Blind, access for protecting our damaging conditions. In addition to that point, our ability to spam Weakness is a hindrance to power builds as well as weakening targets’ ability to dodge since Weakness reduces Endurance regeneration as well.

As far as condition removal … we have some options. Not every build needs skills 6,7,8,9, and 0 to be condi clears. In addition to that, if you look at some meta builds, they rely on their teammates for condition removal. There is nothing wrong with this.

I run 1400 or so condition on my current Ranger with trapper runes, LB, axe and torch.

We’ll see but I am leaning towards disliking the patch especially for my Guardian. Ranger it may not matter as long as you stay at range which should be easier now since 1500 is baseline.

I run 1k7 on my full dire ranger and i must say its one of the most brainless build. And now with all the buff its gonna be even more faceroll unless other class get so many cleanse which i doubt so.

Sebrent.3625:

Tragic is quite right about our access to Weakness, Blind, access for protecting our damaging conditions. In addition to that point, our ability to spam Weakness is a hindrance to power builds as well as weakening targets’ ability to dodge since Weakness reduces Endurance regeneration as well.

Weakness totally counters Vigor now too btw

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Stat-Calculation/first#post5153332

I did some calculations too :O

Our bleeds can do up to around 240/s or even 300/s if you push your stats to max and 380/s with 25might stacks.

Yep, it will be nice to force opponents to quickly recognize whether or not your conditions are a threat or not and when they need to cleanse them.

For Rangers, this is even nicer since this puts more pressure on opponents to blow their cleanses on damaging conditions … which then opens them up for the abundance of immobilizes a Ranger can bring to the table which then cause their target to be a sitting duck for the next round of condition applications

Things are looking nicely.

I may jump into that thread and debate your assumption that no one will take Poison Mastery though :-p

Sebrent.3625:

Yep, it will be nice to force opponents to quickly recognize whether or not your conditions are a threat or not and when they need to cleanse them.

For Rangers, this is even nicer since this puts more pressure on opponents to blow their cleanses on damaging conditions … which then opens them up for the abundance of immobilizes a Ranger can bring to the table which then cause their target to be a sitting duck for the next round of condition applications

Things are looking nicely.

I may jump into that thread and debate your assumption that no one will take Poison Mastery though :-p

People may take Poison Mastery for fun. Actual viable builds with sufficient condi clears might not. I’m interested to hear how you would run Poison Master without getting rekt by the incoming condi meta. Please debate

(1)
You’re assuming that the new meta will be a condi-heavy meta. There are several condi removals still in the game with some classes getting more/easier access to them due to the new specialization system. The new condition mechanics don’t make these conditions any harder to cleanse. 1 Burning is removed the same as 1,500 Burning. We also will have much less to worry about from conditions from power builds as opposed to before where they could still do some solid damage (especially burning).

(2)
Conditions aren’t auto-hit any more than Direct Damage. You can still avoid their application.

(3)
In each meta, there is team composition. If you look at the meta builds, not all of them are loaded with condition removal. Some builds have a few or even none (ex: 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter Mesmer). They can rely on teammates in their comp to provide any additional cleansing.

(4)
You do have Healing Spring and Signet of Renewal. They aren’t as trivially easy to use, but they are both effective and do their job well except in corner cases which can often be avoided through proper skill/pet management.

(5)
I think we differ on what is “sufficient condi clears”. I don’t think someone needs to have 5 skills that are all condition removals … though I will have at least one build that is all survival skills or all survival skills except 1 utility that is SoR … because 3 utilities that are all cleanse + stunbreak is sexy. Harkins back to the earlier days of Elementalist Cantrips when they allowed that (and more … because they’re elementalists and have to one-up everyone, lol)

I’m kinda happy that with 150 condi dmg and the +33% bleed dmg trait I will be at where I was before this update.

Regarding weakness, will we see more blackbear ? ;-)

We might see Black Bear if someone wants that weakness but doesn’t want to take the Beastmastery specialization and Beastmastery trait for it … or wants weakness on a tanky pet.

Unless it has an ICD on it, I’m planning on taking the weakness trait (and the blind too if no ICD) and spamming it with my Eagle (Merica) and Hawk (Falke).

Sebrent.3625:

(1)
You’re assuming that the new meta will be a condi-heavy meta. There are several condi removals still in the game with some classes getting more/easier access to them due to the new specialization system. The new condition mechanics don’t make these conditions any harder to cleanse. 1 Burning is removed the same as 1,500 Burning. We also will have much less to worry about from conditions from power builds as opposed to before where they could still do some solid damage (especially burning).

(2)
Conditions aren’t auto-hit any more than Direct Damage. You can still avoid their application.

(3)
In each meta, there is team composition. If you look at the meta builds, not all of them are loaded with condition removal. Some builds have a few or even none (ex: 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter Mesmer). They can rely on teammates in their comp to provide any additional cleansing.

(4)
You do have Healing Spring and Signet of Renewal. They aren’t as trivially easy to use, but they are both effective and do their job well except in corner cases which can often be avoided through proper skill/pet management.

(5)
I think we differ on what is “sufficient condi clears”. I don’t think someone needs to have 5 skills that are all condition removals … though I will have at least one build that is all survival skills or all survival skills except 1 utility that is SoR … because 3 utilities that are all cleanse + stunbreak is sexy. Harkins back to the earlier days of Elementalist Cantrips when they allowed that (and more … because they’re elementalists and have to one-up everyone, lol)

Yea, my rule is you can never have enough condition clears lol. Also, I’ve never liked Poison Master. All you need is enough poison to reduce healing, the extra poison damage (even with stacks) is trivial, especially when our bleeds will do almost twice as much damage as it is now.

I’ll probably be running 4 survival skills with 1 utility skill free for whatever else I might need. It’ll also be interesting to see what they’re doing to Healing Spring as it’ll become a trap skill. For some reason, I feel like it won’t be as effective as its current state due to the trap arming and activation mechanics.

Anyone else notice how condi ranger builds are going to do significantly more bleed damage? And by significant, I mean 50%+ per bleed. I’m sad that poison mastery is going to be overshadowed, I actually used that quite a bit.

Quick Math:

• New Bleeding at 80 is [26 + (0.075 * CD)]
• New Poison at 80 is [33.5 + (0.06 * CD)]
• Poison does 7.5 more per tick baseline (33.5 – 26 = 7.5).
• Bleeding has 0.015 higher coefficient than Poison (0.075 – 0.06 = 0.015)
• 7.5 / 0.015 = 500 condition damage to make them tick for the same amount
• 1 / 0.015 = 66.6 repeating condition damage

Results:

• Every 66.6 repeating condition damage less than 500, Poison will tick for 1 more damage than Bleeding
• 500 condition damage, Bleeding will tick for the same as Poison.
• Every 66.6 repeating condition damage more than 500, Bleeding will tick for 1 more damage than Poison.

Note: Hidden Barbs and Poison Master change these values a bit since they change the % damage each does … if you want that math, I can do it later. Just ask.

I imagine it will be difficult to stack more than 10 poison on a target? on average we’re probably looking at 7-8 if Poison Volley lands. no more than 5-6 stacks if not using SB or snake trap.

more like 12-15 if you count sword(2poisons) > dagger(4poisons) >volly(3-5poisons) > sigil of doom(1poison) > spider Immob f2 also adds (2poisons) poisons > into poison cloud(1 maybe more not sure) > vipers nest (for 9 poisons) (while immobile for all pusles of poison.

if you can land everything it’ll be at lowest 10 if you mess up rotations.

from only two traits and one sigil.

Sebrent.3625:

Quick Math:

• New Bleeding at 80 is [26 + (0.075 * CD)]
• New Poison at 80 is [33.5 + (0.06 * CD)]
• Poison does 7.5 more per tick baseline (33.5 – 26 = 7.5).
• Bleeding has 0.015 higher coefficient than Poison (0.075 – 0.06 = 0.015)
• 7.5 / 0.015 = 500 condition damage to make them tick for the same amount
• 1 / 0.015 = 66.6 repeating condition damage

Results:

• Every 66.6 repeating condition damage less than 500, Poison will tick for 1 more damage than Bleeding
• 500 condition damage, Bleeding will tick for the same as Poison.
• Every 66.6 repeating condition damage more than 500, Bleeding will tick for 1 more damage than Poison.

Note: Hidden Barbs and Poison Master change these values a bit since they change the % damage each does … if you want that math, I can do it later. Just ask.

I’ve got my own spreadsheet out :P
If you got dire gear with condition runes: ~2086 condition damage. Equates to 240 bleeds (traited) vs. 197 poisons (traited).

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

more like 12-15 if you count sword(2poisons) > dagger(4poisons) >volly(3-5poisons) > sigil of doom(1poison) > spider Immob f2 also adds (2poisons) poisons > into poison cloud(1 maybe more not sure) > vipers nest (for 9 poisons) (while immobile for all pusles of poison.

if you can land everything it’ll be at lowest 10 if you mess up rotations.

from only two traits and one sigil.

oh wow, I didn’t know dagger gave 3 stacks. that’s crazy good. I wasn’t counting sigils or viper’s nest. ranger’s poisons are gonna be nasty.

mistsim.2748:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

more like 12-15 if you count sword(2poisons) > dagger(4poisons) >volly(3-5poisons) > sigil of doom(1poison) > spider Immob f2 also adds (2poisons) poisons > into poison cloud(1 maybe more not sure) > vipers nest (for 9 poisons) (while immobile for all pusles of poison.

if you can land everything it’ll be at lowest 10 if you mess up rotations.

from only two traits and one sigil.

oh wow, I didn’t know dagger gave 3 stacks. that’s crazy good. I wasn’t counting sigils or viper’s nest. ranger’s poisons are gonna be nasty.

is it 3 well ether way its going to stack in intensity a lot , and with refined toxins those first attacks or lots of attacks while above 90% hp will apply poison on a per strike basis too .

So SOS up and get Hitting with Quickness for a quick start game burst of condis what weapon you use doesn;t really effect it that much though SoS and sword AA+pet zyphers speed will make the combo very hard hitting.

go down the BM,skirmish+wilderness likes Sharpen edges+compainions might and expertise training will just mean you’ll apply poison and bleeds at a Rapid rate so quick infact you’ll have 6secs to do so untill SoS ends only way to stop the combo is to hard CC, fear/taunt , use RaO to give it a Turbo boost of might and stability.

atleast you can count on Refined toxins to work in any build even those that don;t use Weapons or pet with poison too.

just means SB’s AAs while above 90% hp will apply poison without the need to volly.

i didnt even notice how well these traits worked together untill i spent a while messing around on here:

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABqAKoA6g~

Aye, it is looking quite sexy.

@kiwituatara.6053
Fellow crazy spreadsheet person :-) I like it!

For those without a spreadsheet, kiwituatara got those numbers for traited bleed and traited poison from:

• With the given bleeding numbers I get [26 + (0.075 * 2086)] = 182.45
• Increasing by 33% so multiple by 1.33 … 182.45 * 1.33 = 242.
• With the given poison numbers I get [33.5 + (0.06 * 2086)] = 158.66
• Increasing by 25% so multiple by 1.25 … 158.66 * 1.25 = 198.325

Personally, I have no issues with Poison doing less damage per tick since it does come with the added bonus of reducing healing (note: the healing reduction does not stack). If poison did as much as Bleeding, it’d make Bleeding just a weaker Poison.

Sebrent.3625:

Aye, it is looking quite sexy.

@kiwituatara.6053
Fellow crazy spreadsheet person :-) I like it!

For those without a spreadsheet, kiwituatara got those numbers for traited bleed and traited poison from:

• With the given bleeding numbers I get [26 + (0.075 * 2086)] = 182.45
• Increasing by 33% so multiple by 1.33 … 182.45 * 1.33 = 242.
• With the given poison numbers I get [33.5 + (0.06 * 2086)] = 158.66
• Increasing by 25% so multiple by 1.25 … 158.66 * 1.25 = 198.325

Personally, I have no issues with Poison doing less damage per tick since it does come with the added bonus of reducing healing (note: the healing reduction does not stack). If poison did as much as Bleeding, it’d make Bleeding just a weaker Poison.

I’ve actually been contemplating about ditching condition duration and just pushing condition damage to the max. If I get sigil of bursting, corruption, and undead runes, it’ll push condition damage to 2718. Bleeds will do 305/s. A burst bleed rotation (with Quick Draw), will push your total bleed to 7948/s.

Basically I’m trying to find if there is a way to one-shot people with a single condi tick… fufufu. Maybe might-stacking condi build instead?

Don’t forget might. A sigil of Strength on your SB with Aristocracy runes can add another 750 condition damage

hidden barbs is so OP. considering to drop the BM line completely for the 0/6/6/6/0 condi bunker…

If that becomes possible we might see a nerf quite soon :-p

I find the idea solid though … as far as conditions go, my view is:

Condition [Re-]Application > Condition Damage > Condition Duration.

Split blade, geomancy, crippling talon , sun spirit proc, sun spirit active, poison volley. Sharpening stone and sharpened edges.
Potentially 25 bleeds, 5 burns, 5 poison.

Melty people.

HUSHHHH I wants to remain OP :X

I just realised. There are so many builds out there thats only focused on toughness as a defensive stat. A lot of thieves/mesmers/eles might actually be susceptible to getting 1-shotted by single condi ticks.

I guess this patch will bring vitality up so its just as important as toughness?

Sigmoid.7082:

Split blade, geomancy, crippling talon , sun spirit proc, sun spirit active, poison volley. Sharpening stone and sharpened edges.
Potentially 25 bleeds, 5 burns, 5 poison.

Melty people.

Don’t forget. Quickdraw Split blade = double Split Blade.

I think (annoyingly) that condi survival will still be our strongest roaming build!

Sube Dai.8496:

I think (annoyingly) that condi survival will still be our strongest roaming build!

So no change? :-p

kiwituatara.6053:

Sigmoid.7082:

Split blade, geomancy, crippling talon , sun spirit proc, sun spirit active, poison volley. Sharpening stone and sharpened edges.
Potentially 25 bleeds, 5 burns, 5 poison.

Melty people.

Don’t forget. Quickdraw Split blade = double Split Blade.

30+ bleeds.

Sebrent.3625:

Sube Dai.8496:

I think (annoyingly) that condi survival will still be our strongest roaming build!

So no change? :-p

I’m still holding out hope for remorseless greatsword, but condi will probably be stronger

Sigmoid.7082:

kiwituatara.6053:

Sigmoid.7082:

Split blade, geomancy, crippling talon , sun spirit proc, sun spirit active, poison volley. Sharpening stone and sharpened edges.
Potentially 25 bleeds, 5 burns, 5 poison.

Melty people.

Don’t forget. Quickdraw Split blade = double Split Blade.

30+ bleeds.

I posted a build a while back that was capable of 100+ bleeds with multiple poison and burning stacks also.

Sube Dai.8496:

Sebrent.3625:

Sube Dai.8496:

I think (annoyingly) that condi survival will still be our strongest roaming build!

So no change? :-p

I’m still holding out hope for remorseless greatsword, but condi will probably be stronger

I think RemGS will be a great support build, using Clarion Bond, Windborne Notes, k*ttensounding Timbre, Altruism runes, Nature’s Vengeance and Stone Spirit, high hopes anyway.

I’m calling it now.

Meta builds will be:

Condi survival,
Pew Pew
BM Shouts for Support

Sube Dai.8496:

I’m calling it now.

Meta builds will be:

Condi survival,
Pew Pew
BM Shouts for Support

can one even call that?
This summer gonna be hot, just calling it now.

kiwituatara.6053:

I’ve actually been contemplating about ditching condition duration and just pushing condition damage to the max.

Yeah I was thinking oh nice +20% bleed angony sigil and +10% condi duration sigil and giver bow, madking runes lots of bleed duration. But since they changed sharpened edges from 2 to 3s it might be better to just stack condi dmg and precision/fury and just pump out multi striking skills. Just burst out the condi dmg instead of trying to slow build it.

Sube Dai.8496:

I’m calling it now.

Meta builds will be:

Condi survival,
Pew Pew
BM Shouts for Support

There are only four useful shouts for us and the CDs mean that you don’t need four to benefit the most. If they were short (20s) like warrior, then yes, trooper is good for them, but such long CDs? Hmmm

“HaO”, “Sic EM” “PM!” are about the only ones that will see use in PvP and the last two have quite long CDs. I wonder if Allies Aid will trigger Resounding Timbre?

I’ll call it too;

Pew Pew / Condi survival as always and Remorseless Beastmaster Support. (see my post above and in lots of other threads haha I think its great The WS variant 6/0/6/0/6 is probably the best due to condi removal, but NM is still pretty nice for support imo. )

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Sube Dai.8496:

I’m calling it now.

Meta builds will be:

Condi survival,
Pew Pew
BM Shouts for Support

There are only four useful shouts for us and the CDs mean that you don’t need four to benefit the most. If they were short (20s) like warrior, then yes, trooper is good for them, but such long CDs? Hmmm

“HaO”, “Sic EM” “PM!” are about the only ones that will see use in PvP and the last two have quite long CDs. I wonder if Allies Aid will trigger Resounding Timbre?

I’ll call it too;

Pew Pew / Condi survival as always and Remorseless Beastmaster Support. (see my post above and in lots of other threads haha I think its great The WS variant 6/0/6/0/6 is probably the best due to condi removal, but NM is still pretty nice for support imo. )

WArrior’s traited shouts are 20s, 20s, and 24s CDs. Ranger’s will be:

HaO: 16s
Sic’em: 32s
Guard: 12s

The skills themselves still have no party support though…

Yeah, I wasn’t really counting Guard or S&R.

Although, guard could be useful for leaving a pet on a node to attack foes that come and fighting off it.

I’m just going to run the one shout, HaO with altruism runes, so you give out 3 might/fury/regen/swiftness on heal every 16s. Combined with Clarion Bond, Warhorn and Windborne Notes for Might/Fury/Regen/Swiftness to everyone. Then the Stone Spirit for protection and whatever other boon it pulses with NV, SoR for condi clears (party too) and probably SoTW and Entangle. GS-S/WH with valk amulet Battle/Intelligence sigils. I just love the idea heh. If NV has crap boons, I’ll go with WS for WK and more survival skills.

Sube Dai.8496:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Sube Dai.8496:

I’m calling it now.

Meta builds will be:

Condi survival,
Pew Pew
BM Shouts for Support

There are only four useful shouts for us and the CDs mean that you don’t need four to benefit the most. If they were short (20s) like warrior, then yes, trooper is good for them, but such long CDs? Hmmm

“HaO”, “Sic EM” “PM!” are about the only ones that will see use in PvP and the last two have quite long CDs. I wonder if Allies Aid will trigger Resounding Timbre?

I’ll call it too;

Pew Pew / Condi survival as always and Remorseless Beastmaster Support. (see my post above and in lots of other threads haha I think its great The WS variant 6/0/6/0/6 is probably the best due to condi removal, but NM is still pretty nice for support imo. )

WArrior’s traited shouts are 20s, 20s, and 24s CDs. Ranger’s will be:

HaO: 16s
Sic’em: 32s
Guard: 12s

The skills themselves still have no party support though…

they will with timber that effects allies , if the skill traited effects allies runes of the trooper should remove a condi for each.

as it says shouts that effect allies removes 1 condi.

though the warroirs has Built in support without adding a trait for that support .

the rangers shoutbow adds , Daze , KD’s , Regen , swiftness its offensive support utilties even set up correctly a pet can get to 25 might with sic um, protection , bark skin and the ranger can go full condi damage with anguish for its stunbreak , wilderness, Skirmishing , beastmastery SB or Axe+dagger / Sword+axe with ambidextrous trait .

its very offensive support , i’d say in no way its replacing but it is competing with warroirs shoutbow though from this point it all depends on party comp.

im really looking forward to this , its going to change how people see rangers in a huge way.

also don’t forget Search and Rescue Traited (allies Aid) if you go into nature magic instead of skirmishing thats 6 total.

Sic ‘Em isn’t a useful shout. I wrote this on our reddit:

it hasn’t been useful and it isn’t currently. given that it wasn’t changed in any significant way, it wont see much play. generally, you don’t specifically slot to fight certain profs (i.e. thief). you spec to be good at killing/surviving multiple specs and profs. Sic ‘Em doesn’t include a stun break, invuln, condi cleanse or even a significant damage boost for the ranger, so it’s virtually useless.

in short, slotting Sic ‘Em decreases our survivability too much. arguably it doesn’t even benefit our damage output significantly due to pet’s pathing issues, but this may improve with the new minor trait. for me to slot this shout, its CD would need to be decreased to 30s baseline, and it would need to affect the ranger proper (6 stacks of might, a stun break, whatever).

the only useful shouts (and theyre VERY useful) are HaO, RaO and Protect Me. Especially with Trooper Runes. Guard would have been useful for a regen condi bunker, but this won’t be played. most players will be using signets and survival utilities because these abilities benefit the pet and ranger, but they especially increase the ranger’s survivability.

in the future when designing ranger utilities, devs need to create them in a way to benefit both ranger and pet, OR just the ranger. otherwise it’s just silly.

mistsim.2748:

Sic ‘Em isn’t a useful shout. I wrote this on our reddit:

it hasn’t been useful and it isn’t currently. given that it wasn’t changed in any significant way, it wont see much play. generally, you don’t specifically slot to fight certain profs (i.e. thief). you spec to be good at killing/surviving multiple specs and profs. Sic ‘Em doesn’t include a stun break, invuln, condi cleanse or even a significant damage boost for the ranger, so it’s virtually useless.

in short, slotting Sic ‘Em decreases our survivability too much. arguably it doesn’t even benefit our damage output significantly due to pet’s pathing issues, but this may improve with the new minor trait. for me to slot this shout, its CD would need to be decreased to 30s baseline, and it would need to affect the ranger proper (6 stacks of might, a stun break, whatever).

the only useful shouts (and theyre VERY useful) are HaO, RaO and Protect Me. Especially with Trooper Runes. Guard would have been useful for a regen condi bunker, but this won’t be played. most players will be using signets and survival utilities because these abilities benefit the pet and ranger, but they especially increase the ranger’s survivability.

in the future when designing ranger utilities, devs need to create them in a way to benefit both ranger and pet, OR just the ranger. otherwise it’s just silly.

as Jcbro said we’ve got enough shouts to swap to what we like.

^that’s really an irrelevant comment. my entire point is that only 3 shouts are viable for pvp in a very niche role (probably just wvw zerging). and the other 3 need to get revamped.

mistsim.2748:

^that’s really an irrelevant comment. my entire point is that only 3 shouts are viable for pvp in a very niche role (probably just wvw zerging). and the other 3 need to get revamped.

well if you give me a chance to finish my edit , in a different thread people are talking about Protect me and barkskin to negate a lot of damage add trooper runes to that.

you’ll apply regen+swiftness > res at double rate (with Allied Aid apply a second lot of regen+swiftness and remove 1 condi per shout) and body block a downed target as part of its active play it would Encourage Offensive Shout support with a Res bot Set up.

you don’t have to go Full shouts or use sic um .

you can use HaO, Allied Aid(trait) , protect me , Guard , RaO and ether or have one or two utiltiy slots free for Traited traps or LR(with wilderness knowledge) , its only a problem if you don’t take enough survival it doesn’t take away from survival.
again as Jcbro said.

those are all great points. but yet again, we’re stuck with a whole bunch of completely useless utilities. probably for an entire year or more.